earthmothergypsy

I finally figured out what the difference is.
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We=my family I will be talking about my family below.

We treat our children with the same respect and understanding that we do anyone. We don't look at them as little beings that need coddled and molded, but as equals-so to speak. We provide them information to the best of our ability and let them know that this is what we understand xyz to be. We help them find more information on xyz if they desire, and answer all questions honestly. We give our kids the ability to make their own decisions, more importantly *informed* decisions and respect their choices. They know what we offer is what we have learned and we also share with them as we would anyone else, where we found what we have learned. We talk about everything and discuss things deeply. They teach us as much as we teach them. They always have a fresh outlook on things and a different way of seeing things. That helps us make informed decisions and choices too! This is the type of relationship my kids have with us. Do I think telling them the truth about something provides a burden? No I don't. I think it arms them with the knowledge to make an informed choice. They do a great job at it too! I am amazed at what they come up with most days. :) We talk with our kids with the same tone and respect we give anyone else in our life, be it a friend, family member or stranger for they deserve this. They may be smaller but they are no less of a person than anyone else. That is how we look at things and how we live, how we unschool, etc. For us we feel kids are smart and strong. They know when they are being handed a bill of goods and when someone is really being honest and upfront with them. We feel they have the ability to handle just about anything that comes their way as long as they feel loved, safe and respected. This is why as unschoolers, we offer all sides of a story, we don't hide information to protect them, and we allow them to explore and make their own decisions.
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This is why we are seeing things differently. It is how we see our children and how we each think they process what is given them. What is missing is the respect *we* should all be given for knowing our kids and what they can and can not handle instead of others assuming they know what is best for someone else's child. No one fits into a specific mold and it seems to me that this is what is happening here. It is being assumed that all the kids will have the same reaction to a situation and that is wrong. We as their parents know what is right for our own kids and honestly, that should be respected and understood. What works for my family will not necessarily work for another's family. However, I think we should all be able to share what we do and how we do it so we can all glean new ideas and information on our unschooling paths.

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Schuyler

"I" is a much more straightforward pronoun. I'm not quite sure that I understand why you need to work as a multiple. I suppose I can understand when you are talking about decisions you and your partner have made about how to interact with your children, but you can still say "I" or "my partner and I" or whatever. " We=my family" suggests that you all work as the Borg, a single mind operating through different bodies. But other things that you've written have clearly stated that your children have their own opinions and are capable of expressing them. For clarity I is a much more precise term. And on an e-mail list using words precisely is necessary if you don't want to leave people confused or asking repeatedly for clarity.

Schuyler


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From: earthmothergypsy earthmothergypsy@...


I finally figured out what the difference is.
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We=my family I will be talking about my family below.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

meadowgirl11

--- In [email protected], "earthmothergypsy" <earthmothergypsy@...> wrote:

... > This is why we are seeing things differently. It is how we see our children and how we each think they process what is given them. What is missing is the respect *we* should all be given for knowing our kids and what they can and can not handle instead of others assuming they know what is best for someone else's child. No one fits into a specific mold and it seems to me that this is what is happening here.<
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I am not a regular poster here, but I have been following this discussion really closely, and that is not how it looks from outside. From outside it looks like one person saying "this is what we do and this is unschooling", and then saying things that are not really helpful to people like me who are still trying to understand some of the tougher concepts of the specific type of unschooling that is being discussed here. And it looks like others who are
used to addressing this kind of thing saying the same things they always do which is: that's great, if it works for you, fine, but it isn't what we're here to discuss. It isn't what makes unschooling work best and it isn't helpful to keep trying to insist that it is.

While I am sure that some of the moderators and long time posters might cringe, I see this list as more of an unschooling dear abby than a real discussion list. I come here to see how people who are further, often much further, toward living the way I want to live respond to particular issues that may come up in my journey to unschooling. I mostly read. And read, and read more. I rarely post unless I have a question. And when I first got on here it really freaked me out that the list seemed so confrontational, so I went elsewhere for a while, to other lists that were more discussion or support oriented. But I didn't really get anywhere and they got pretty boring and repetitive pretty quickly so I came back here. And when I did I saw that it wasn't really confrontational at all, it was just honest about what its purpose was and not willing to let things pass that could confuse or mislead people who are really needing to be unconfused, like me.

So if someone posts something here that could lead people away from the type of unschooling we are trying to find, people question. Then if the original poster hears that questioning or reframing as criticism or takes it personally, it looks like a confrontational list. But it isn't. It isn't even personal. The thread is as much about me as about you or about anyone of the 2000 readers, 90% of which almost never post. I haven't seen one post that assumed they knew your children better than you do, but I saw a lot who know unschooling and what helps make it work best. A lot of brilliant, thoughtful writers who do this for free over and over for years and still get the same kind of criticism and fearful, defensive responses to their generous, free advice.

Maybe unschooling just comes naturally for you and when you post about "we do this" and "this works for our family", maybe it really does look like the open, trustful, free choice that is advocated here. Maybe your kids really do all want the same things as you would choose for them, or maybe they have way more say than it looks like when you write. Or maybe they are really sweet kids who want to please you so they say and do what they think you would like and would choose differently if they thought that you would still support their choices even if they weren't the ones you would make for them. You are right that we can't know that from reading. But either way, it really doesn't help someone like me who is coming to unschooling from a totally different place, a place of struggling with the concept of trustful, non-controlling parenting, of separating me from we, of letting my child enjoy the swanson's turkey dinners he has decided he wants without having a panic attack about the non-organic turkey, the GMO corn and the msg, transfat laden stuffing, and in turn without passing that panic attack on to him. Or more accurately, without him having to ignore his own internal signals of what is good or not in order to prove to me that he can do what he wants, which is the kind of kid he is.

What does help me is when the list works like it should. Someone who is struggling with some aspect of unschooling posts a question. People with more experience respond with ideas and thoughts and links and advice about unschooling. Not about diets or lifestyle choices or personal beliefs, but about unschooling, as it is practiced by the longtime posters on this list. That's what I am here for, that's what I want to read. That's what keeps a thread from derailing like the one here did.

If anyone recalls, the OP was from a mom who had already decided to trust her kids to make food choices for themselves. She was in the middle of a transition and it was freaking her out. I can totally relate to that post. What she wanted was advice to help her over the hard part, to get through her fears and to move forward. What she got was a bunch more fears thrown at her. Having initiated an almost identical discussion about 2 months ago, I got some of the same, but somehow the thread managed to stay on track and I also got some very useful information that did help me in the way I was hoping it would. I hope people can read the OP and ask themselves, does what I have to say help move this forward or is it going in the opposite direction.

riverkatie

Thank you for this calm and sensible post.