Dawn Del Rossi

Okay here's my dilemma, this could be long and I'm cross posting to
get lots of opinions.

My husband and I have been married for 15 years and have 5 children -
Nicholas (9), Alessandra (7), Dominic (who will be 6 in a few days),
Carmella (3) and Francesca (1). Back in June he announced that he'd
had enough and he was done so he started living elsewhere and asking
for a divorce. This was a complete shock for me (still is after so
many months). We've been talking and I've been trying to figure out
what the f---!!! Over these months he's attempted to explained his
point of view to me. Aside from issues between he and I are the
issues of the kids which he equated to being "the last straw." He's
done with unschooling - all of it. He sees things differently than I
do. For example he sees the children as getting everything they want,
whenever they want and however they want. I know this isn't true and
I believe on some level he knows it to but he's very frustrated with
many things and feels he's been put on the back burner so to speak and
the kids have taken over. There are 5 of them and they are young and
yes they are alot of work and can be overwhelming and (not that I'm
taking all the blame here so don't worry) but he is right - to a degree.

Here are some of the problems:

He feels they are too young to make their own choices in regards to
food - that here (at home) they only eat candy and junk and that they
eat all day long and we're short order cooks. He would like to see
set meal plans and times - not necessarily strict - breakfast is
served at 8, lunch at 12 and dinner at 6 with no exceptions, but much
less short order cooking so that our entire day isn't spent cooking
individual meals. Even as I type that sentence I'm struck by the
humor of it - if all they ate was candy and other junk how am I
cooking in the kitchen all day?

He thinks the kids should be in bed at a "decent time" and get up at a
"decent time." He hasn't said what that time is but I think generally
they should be in bed by 10 and up around 8 or 9, I think. He is
legally blind and doesn't drive so the sleeping and waking is
particularly irksome because he can't come and go as he needs, he is
dependent on us to drive him back and forth to work and the kids are
too young to stay by themselves and they don't want to stay by
themselves. So if they don't get up till 11 then he can't get to work
until 12 or so. He is self employed but all of his equipment is at
his office so he needs to be at his office and he deals with people
from all over who deal in "business time" so he would like to be in
the office before 12. His office is a single wide trailer which is
where he's been living. He's been getting up around 5 - exercising,
eating, showering, e-mailing, working all before we even roll over
around 9. We've had a driver for him in the past who picked him up
around 8:30 but he's gotten so he really likes getting up early and
getting moving. We have always co-slept and now have 2 king sized
beds put together and we all sleep in the bed together so he and I
haven't slept near each other in years because there is always a kid
or 2 between us and he would like for them to sleep in their own beds.

He also feels I should be teaching them something, which is where I
need some suggestions. Our 9 year old doesn't read at all. Our 7
year old dabbles in it. He feels like when he agreed to all of this
he agreed to homeschooling - even relaxed homeschooling - not
unschooling. He feels like we haven't been doing anything in regards
to teaching our children. He believes all they do is play video
games, watch TV, play make-believe games, play with their friends etc.
but no "structured" anything. I believe in unschooling and know they
are learning and will learn to do whatever when they are ready. He
believes we are doing a great disservice to our children. He wants
to put them in school. He believes although I am a certified teacher
I have become complacent and lazy and can't teach them. That with the
5 of them and their needs I can't keep up and get done what needs to
be done in the home and with schooling. In his words, "If we'd been
schooling them at least some the older ones would be able to help
teach the younger ones and do more independent stuff while I was
nursing the baby to sleep or fixing food or whatever." He thinks all
I want to do is play with them and be their friend, not their parent.
Over the last several years he has talked the talk in regards to
unschooling and children learning but when we discuss it now and I
point out what they are learning through their play he says he knows
the talk but he doesn't believe it and that no matter how I "dress it
up" it's still just play. I need to be teaching them something.
Something needs to change to satisfy his needs or he'll push the
school at least in the younger ones. He realizes that to put Nicholas
in school would be very traumatic - testing, special needs classrooms,
possible drug intervention to calm him, - he's a very active kids and
would be in 4th grade where reading is so crucial in the school
setting, there's no way he'd be able to function in a 4th grade
class. He believes that Alessandra would adapt and that Dominic would
be okay because he'd only be in kindergarten and Carmella would go to
day care, I mean pre-school, so she would be able to be on track
without any intervention.

I need some help. I don't want my kids to go to school and neither do
they but when I ask them to do anything "schooly" even if it's
something they enjoy like playing games, they balk - they're too busy
doing this or watching this show or playing this video game or what
ever it is they are involved in - and they are always involved in
something! I understand how they feel and hate pushing it and I'm
sure they feel that. But if we don't start doing something, showing
some progress in "learning" he's going to put them in school. And
when the kids and I talk about the options they want to do what it
takes so they don't have to go to school but when it comes right down
to it they protest. So how can I "teach them something" in a way that
they will want to participate without me yelling and screaming or
threatening them if we don't do this, you will end up in school.

I know several of you IRL and many of you know my husband, I want this
to work out between us and don't want a divorce. The children want
their father to come home. We want to make changes that will help
meet his needs too. He's concerned that if I do all this "for him"
I'll be miserable and we'll be in the same situation anyway just with
me being the discontent one. I don't know if making these changes
will convince him to come home or at consider trying counseling or
something to help us but I want to do something to try. I still
believe in unschooling and want to respect my kids as much as possible
but I also need to respect my husband more and I believe our children
will benefit more from us working this out and being together as a
family more than they will with me holding on to an "ideal"
unschooling life and seeing him only every other weekend so any help
you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Dawn, wife to Christopher, mother to Nicholas (9), Alessandra (7),
Dominic (6), Carmella (3) and Francesca (1)

Michelle

<<<"I believe our children
will benefit more from us working this out and being together as a
family more than they will with me holding on to an "ideal"
unschooling life and seeing him only every other weekend">>>

Dawn, I can so relate to your situation. Dh and I have a very similar one, although I think in some respects, I'm a little farther down the road of reconciliation, and got there before it came down to him moving out.. just before... he did suggest it.
I wholeheartedly agree with the statement you wrote above. Sandra Dodd says something very similar in her "Big Book of Unschooling", which I heartily recommend.
Unschooling can be a big leap for a lot of people, and I encourage you to give yourself, and your family their own growing time, and accept that the "ideal unschooling life" may never happen in your family. This is what I have done, and amazingly, it does seem true that once I let go of the ideal, our family begins moving more in that direction in some ways.
My dh feels the same about bedtimes, and food issues, and I have had to allow him to be the parent in these issues too, and give a little. This has meant me staying up with the kids while he goes to bed, and giving him extra time (if possible), hugs, kisses, attention... and still he negotiates with the kids to get them to bed at a time that he thinks is healthy, and they will be the least grumpy the next day.
I don't have time to talk about all the issues right now, you can email me at justmemomof6@... if you'd like.
But I can certainly relate. I have 6 children under the age of 13.5, and did not begin unschooling until about 4 years ago. It is a work in progress that I believe in. My changing in parenting issues has led to hurdle after hurdle for our marriage, yet we are committed to keeping together. This has recquired me to give up (possibly temporarily) some of my unschooling ideals. Compromise.
Email me if you'd like to talk more.
Michelle Schooling

Krisula

--- In [email protected], Dawn Del Rossi <dawn@...> wrote:
>(trimmed)
>I want this to work out between us and don't want a divorce. The children want
> their father to come home. We want to make changes that will help
> meet his needs too. He's concerned that if I do all this "for him"
> I'll be miserable and we'll be in the same situation anyway just with
> me being the discontent one.
> Dawn, wife to Christopher, mother to Nicholas (9), Alessandra (7),
> Dominic (6), Carmella (3) and Francesca (1)


There is a long list of things your husband is uncomfortable about but it will likely cause more problems if you suddenly turn everything upside down. Perhaps you could ask him for the biggest thing (or maybe three things) that are really bugging him most right this minute. Maybe it is the sleeping situation? You could find some changes that would ameliorate those issues first. Sometimes a problem becomes clearer and easier to unravel if you work on one issue at a time. Perhaps just seeing that you and the kids value his needs will give him the support he needs to try a little longer.

He sounds unhappy and divorce isn't going to make him (or his family) happier.

otherstar

>>>>He would like to see set meal plans and times - not necessarily strict - breakfast is
served at 8, lunch at 12 and dinner at 6 with no exceptions, but much
less short order cooking so that our entire day isn't spent cooking
individual meals.<<<<

I try to accommodate my husband by having a meal on the table when he gets home from work. We try to encourage the kids to sit and eat with us or at least sit and talk with us. We try to make sure that we have plenty of stuff that the kids can prepare for themselves.

>>>He thinks the kids should be in bed at a "decent time" and get up at a
"decent time." He hasn't said what that time is but I think generally
they should be in bed by 10 and up around 8 or 9, I think.<<<

This is a big issue in our house. The kids like to stay up late and sometimes get noisy. I used to buffer things and try to keep my husband from getting mad and yelling at them. I realized that I was dismissing his feelings and putting the kids' needs ahead of his. When I quit trying to interfere and let my husband get mad at the kids, things got better. One of the things that I was inadvertently doing was putting the kids needs above my husband's needs as well as my own. I found that the issue wasn't about the bed time as much as it was about validating my husband and his needs. When he gets mad at the kids and yells at them, I instead try to help the kids understand his perspective. "Dad is tired and wants to go to bed but can't because you guys are being so loud. Dad doesn't have a problem with you staying up but he does have a problem with you being so noisy."

>>>>. He's been getting up around 5 - exercising,
eating, showering, e-mailing, working all before we even roll over
around 9.<<<<<<

Is there any way you could get somebody to drive him to work at 5 and then you and the kids could go pick him up when he gets done in the afternoon. Then, as soon as you get home, fix him a nice big meal.

>>>>We have always co-slept and now have 2 king sized
beds put together and we all sleep in the bed together so he and I
haven't slept near each other in years because there is always a kid
or 2 between us and he would like for them to sleep in their own beds.<<<<<

We cosleep and have a king and a twin. One of the things that we have done is made sure that my husband and I are next to each other. I have read that sleeping next to someone helps you reconnect. When my husband and I don't get to sleep next to each other, I can see a difference in his moods. If a kid falls asleep between us, he will move them to the other side of the bed. Being next to each other also allows us to talk quietly and cuddle while the kids sleep around us.

>>>He also feels I should be teaching them something, which is where I
need some suggestions.<<<<

Can you take the activities that the kids are doing and break them down into what the kids are learning from them? I was really bothered by my daughter playing too many computer games so I decided to sit down and watch what she was actually doing. I got a new perspective on how much she was actually learning. I have a blog where I try to translate daily activities into learning/teaching concepts. I don't do it often but whenever I get concerned about not "teaching" them something, it helps me to write it out. When my husband got a little nervous about what they were learning, we worked out a solution where he would come home and ask the kids what they learned today. We didn't change any activities. We talked to the kids about their dad's concerns. We talked about the different things they were learning from their everyday activities so that when my husband asked about their day, they could tell him that they practiced X, Y, Z while playing a video game or watching a TV program. Rather than changing our activities, we changed how we thought about those activities.

>>>>He believes all they do is play video
games, watch TV, play make-believe games, play with their friends etc.
but no "structured" anything.<<<<<

Isn't that what they are doing? That is what my kids do. The big difference is how you think about those activities. If you see those activities as mindless or worthless, then you won't value those activities for the learning that occurs.


>>>>He believes we are doing a great disservice to our children.<<<

What are his specific concerns? There is a good chance that his concerns are valid and can be addressed.

>>>>He believes although I am a certified teacher
I have become complacent and lazy and can't teach them. That with the
5 of them and their needs I can't keep up and get done what needs to
be done in the home and with schooling.<<<<

I think this is another valid concern. From his perspective, he probably sees you as being overwhelmed. My husband has indicated that I am so caught up in taking care of the kids that I don't take time to take care of myself or our relationship. As a result, we are not on the same page and we have become adversaries rather than being the best friends that we were when we got married.

>>>>>Over the last several years he has talked the talk in regards to
unschooling and children learning but when we discuss it now and I
point out what they are learning through their play he says he knows
the talk but he doesn't believe it and that no matter how I "dress it
up" it's still just play. I need to be teaching them something.
Something needs to change to satisfy his needs or he'll push the
school at least in the younger ones.<<<<<

Can you find some more "educational" stuff to include in their play? Perhaps you could try to find a free online assessment and have your kids take it to show him that they do know stuff. I did that with my oldest once. We were concerned about whether or not she could read and comprehend so we found a free 5 minute assessment thing online and had her take it. While she didn't score at the level of her schooled peers, it showed us that she was indeed learning something.

>>>>I need some help. I don't want my kids to go to school and neither do
they but when I ask them to do anything "schooly" even if it's
something they enjoy like playing games, they balk - they're too busy
doing this or watching this show or playing this video game or what
ever it is they are involved in - and they are always involved in
something! I understand how they feel and hate pushing it and I'm
sure they feel that. <<<<<

Has your husband talked to your kids? It sounds like you might have been filtering everything between your husband and your kids so that they do not value their dad or his opinions. I say this because that is what happened at our house. The kids took their cue from me when it came to their dad. I was so caught up in respecting the kids that I totally ignored my husband and failed to respect him. When I didn't respect him and his needs, then neither did the kids. We are working on it but there are still times when the kids come to me to tattle on their dad because he was mean to them or yelled at them even though they were in the wrong. Now, I try to encourage my husband to talk to the kids about his concerns. I also try to make the kids talk to their dad rather than being the buffer. If the kids get upset by his concerns, then I try to help them to understand his point of view. Likewise, I try to help him see the kids point of view. Yes, it has become very convoluted but we are trying to unravel it so that my husband is my equal once again rather than somebody that ranks below the kids.

>>>> I still believe in unschooling and want to respect my kids as much as possible
but I also need to respect my husband more and I believe our children
will benefit more from us working this out and being together as a
family more than they will with me holding on to an "ideal"
unschooling life and seeing him only every other weekend so any help
you can give would be greatly appreciated.<<<<

I may be way off but it sounds like the underlying issue is one of power. Your husband has no say in anything. Everything is about the kids. I have found that the more I try to respect my husband's needs, the more helpful he is and the easier it is for him to go along with whatever it is that I am doing. Small things like sleeping next to each other helps. Having a regular meal at the table helps a great deal. Allowing my husband to get pissed off at the kids helps. I was so afraid of trampling on my kids' rights and interests that I had completely emasculated my husband. Every now and then we all have to compromise, including the kids. It sounds like your husband has been the only one that has been compromising and he has reached his end. Of course, all of this is speculation based on what has played out at my house.

Connie




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