How to Play?
AllisonR
So much to think about on this glorious fall day
I am re-entering this post with a different title (previously More Lighting Rod Child) because after reading my post and the thoughtful, generous answers I realize that what I really want help with is that I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ENGAGE AND PLAY WITH MY DAUGHTER! All your responses hit the mark.
1. I AM busy with a little 2 year old and
2. she was NOT ready to share me,
3. punishment will not change the family dynamic we are becoming stuck in and
4. she is left out and excluded from a lot of cool things her older, more experienced brother get to do because her behavior limits what we all can do together(ie children's theatre) so we tend to do them without her (that would royally piss me off, too)
5. we all are expecting too much from such a small, not verbally-skilled girl.
My husband, I and my three sons (10, 6, and 2) are all intensely VERBAL people. My 3.5 yr-old daughter is decidedly NOT. What has worked wonderfully with the rest of my family does not work with her and I realize that her needs are not met in the way that I would normally meet intimate needs with words and books and stories and silly songs and such. So, that is quite a revelation! When I ask her to communicate with me verbally it is as if someone were to say to me "Just do a double back flip and then we will meet your needs." That skill is just not (yet?) in her cache. I sure as hell can't do a double back flip to save my life and would starve both emotionally and physically if that were what was required.
So, a big empathetic breakthrough there thanks all.
Now, I am in the glow of that new perspective but I am still a very intensely verbal person and I stumble with what else is out there theoretically, I know that there are many ways to interface with the world but I have book learnin', y'all not the practical, rubber meets the road stuff I need with her. Obviously, this shift in perspective will allow all of us to be gentler with her which can't but help. Also, I will observe her for the info I need, but has anyone else run up against a totally different "world view" with their child? She comes at life at a right angle from where I come from.
I am struggling with how to PLAY with HER. I guess no one has been observing her much. She was born during three years of intense family shifts and loss. Someone last post recommended making a list of all the things I like about her and I came up with a paltry, few things. Like, she has hilariously, beautiful hair...sweet, but the brevity of the list broke my heart.
I am sure I will learn, I want to learn, but sometimes I or her siblings want to engage, but our dynamic is such that she goes on the offensive and turns into a pill before anything nice can happen. Sort of like hit before you get hit or call yourself ugly before the mean girls in Jr. High can call you ugly
I need help playing. Is it normal to feel really awkward playing certain ways? Bored? Disengaged? When she does lead the play, I can now see that I sort of change it, improvise, thinking that I am adding to it. But maybe not? I need to be still and just watch. But, how can one tell when to join in? I guess I can't consistently recognize an invitation from my daughter.
Where to start?
1. I AM busy with a little 2 year old and
2. she was NOT ready to share me,
3. punishment will not change the family dynamic we are becoming stuck in and
4. she is left out and excluded from a lot of cool things her older, more experienced brother get to do because her behavior limits what we all can do together(ie children's theatre) so we tend to do them without her (that would royally piss me off, too)
5. we all are expecting too much from such a small, not verbally-skilled girl.
My husband, I and my three sons (10, 6, and 2) are all intensely VERBAL people. My 3.5 yr-old daughter is decidedly NOT. What has worked wonderfully with the rest of my family does not work with her and I realize that her needs are not met in the way that I would normally meet intimate needs with words and books and stories and silly songs and such. So, that is quite a revelation! When I ask her to communicate with me verbally it is as if someone were to say to me "Just do a double back flip and then we will meet your needs." That skill is just not (yet?) in her cache. I sure as hell can't do a double back flip to save my life and would starve both emotionally and physically if that were what was required.
So, a big empathetic breakthrough there thanks all.
Now, I am in the glow of that new perspective but I am still a very intensely verbal person and I stumble with what else is out there theoretically, I know that there are many ways to interface with the world but I have book learnin', y'all not the practical, rubber meets the road stuff I need with her. Obviously, this shift in perspective will allow all of us to be gentler with her which can't but help. Also, I will observe her for the info I need, but has anyone else run up against a totally different "world view" with their child? She comes at life at a right angle from where I come from.
I am struggling with how to PLAY with HER. I guess no one has been observing her much. She was born during three years of intense family shifts and loss. Someone last post recommended making a list of all the things I like about her and I came up with a paltry, few things. Like, she has hilariously, beautiful hair...sweet, but the brevity of the list broke my heart.
I am sure I will learn, I want to learn, but sometimes I or her siblings want to engage, but our dynamic is such that she goes on the offensive and turns into a pill before anything nice can happen. Sort of like hit before you get hit or call yourself ugly before the mean girls in Jr. High can call you ugly
I need help playing. Is it normal to feel really awkward playing certain ways? Bored? Disengaged? When she does lead the play, I can now see that I sort of change it, improvise, thinking that I am adding to it. But maybe not? I need to be still and just watch. But, how can one tell when to join in? I guess I can't consistently recognize an invitation from my daughter.
Where to start?
[email protected]
>>>>>>>> Now, I am in the glow of that new perspective but I am still avery intensely verbal person and I stumble with what else is out
there theoretically, I know that there are many ways to interface with the
world but I have book learnin', y'all not the practical, rubber meets the
road stuff I need with her. Obviously, this shift in perspective will allow
all of us to be gentler with her which can't but help. Also, I will observe
her for the info I need, but has anyone else run up against a totally
different "world view" with their child? She comes at life at a right angle
from where I come from. <<<<<<<<<<
My 5 year old daughter is completely different than the rest of us. Things
that make sense to everyone else just don't make sense to her. She doesn't
like to talk and gets easily frustrated when people try to push her into
talking. Sometimes it is a good idea to just do something that doesn't
require a lot of talking. We have all figured out that we can't change her
and that she really does have a lot to offer. When we listen to her, we get
some really great ideas and perspectives that we might not have otherwise.
We had to quit trying to change her to meet our expectations and be one of
"us".
>>>>>>>> I am struggling with how to PLAY with HER. I guess no one hasbeen observing her much. She was born during three years of intense family
shifts and loss. Someone last post recommended making a list of all the
things I like about her and I came up with a paltry, few things. Like, she
has hilariously, beautiful hair...sweet, but the brevity of the list broke
my heart. <<<<<<<<
Try to think of things that you can do that don't require a lot of
talking. Or, if there is talking, it is nonsensical and funny. I can carry
on a completely nonsensical conversation with my 5 year old (and always have
been). It is really great because she will talk about her imaginary world
all day long. If I try to talk to her about the "real" world, forget it. You
mention that you go to children's theater with the older kids. Perhaps you
could try to have your own theater and give her a part where she can perform
with her siblings.
>>>> I am sure I will learn, I want to learn, but sometimes I or hersiblings want to engage, but our dynamic is such that she goes on the
offensive and turns into a pill before anything nice can happen. Sort of
like hit before you get hit or call yourself ugly before the mean girls in
Jr. High can call you ugly <<<<<
Stay the course. If she goes on the offensive, let her have her say.
Rather than running off and using her behavior as an excuse, stay with her
and wait until she is done letting out her emotions. That is a big thing to
put on the shoulders of a 3.5 year old. There may still be an element of
blame and that has to be gone before you will make any real headway. Try to
give her some tools to work with. With my 5 year old, I tell her to take a
deep breath or go to another room or find other ways of expressing herself.
If she chooses not to use them, that is fine. Sometimes, it is just a matter
of giving them the proper tools to deal with the world.
>>>>>>>>>> I need help playing. Is it normal to feel really awkwardplaying certain ways? Bored? Disengaged? When she does lead the play, I can
now see that I sort of change it, improvise, thinking that I am adding to
it. But maybe not? I need to be still and just watch. But, how can one tell
when to join in? I guess I can't consistently recognize an invitation from
my daughter. <<<<<<<<<<
I am sure that some of the things you are asking your daughter to do feel
odd to her. One of the things to do is try to come up with games/activities
that do not require a lot of talking. I have found that they will tell you
how they want you to play if you pay attention. I ask my kids, "What do you
want me to do?" The answer is not always the same. Sometimes, they just want
me to watch. Sometimes they want me to be a member of whatever it is they
are doing. In order for them to tell you, they have to feel comfortable
first.
Some things that have always been good:
-Cooking together has always been a way for us to get everyone together.
The talkers can talk, the readers can read, and my 5 year old can stir and
pour.
-going to the park
-board games
-video games are great, there are a lot of really good games for the
smaller kids
-get books that you can act out or do with puppets
-dancing (we have had family dance nights where we put on music and dance
and act silly)
-When everyone else is reading and talking, maybe your 5 year old would
rather draw.
-We have one of those little excercise type trampolines that is great when
one person wants to be wild and the others don't.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathryn
==I need help playing. Is it normal to feel really awkward
playing certain ways? Bored? Disengaged? When she does lead the play, I can now see that I sort of change it, improvise, thinking that I am adding to it. But maybe not? I need to be still and just watch. But, how can one tell when to join in? I guess I can't consistently recognize an invitation from my daughter.==
In the past, I insisted that I would not play pretend with my kids. I found it boring and tedious. If I Did pretend play, I often tried to improvise and change the 'scene', believing it would add to the 'learning' experience. I remember John Holt wrote in one of his books something along the lines of following Their lead, as they invited You to play with Them. Very true. I wouldn't be playing pretend at this point of my life if I didn't have kids! Essentially, the child Does *own* the game . . . and they want to share it with us. How lovely!
I can still struggle playing pretend with my little ones. My mind can wonder to what Needs to be done around the home, vegetable patch, bills, etc. I have to actively shift my focus to their enjoyment. I love that, because it brings me back to the moment. Their enjoyment brings me enjoyment!
Kathryn
x
playing certain ways? Bored? Disengaged? When she does lead the play, I can now see that I sort of change it, improvise, thinking that I am adding to it. But maybe not? I need to be still and just watch. But, how can one tell when to join in? I guess I can't consistently recognize an invitation from my daughter.==
In the past, I insisted that I would not play pretend with my kids. I found it boring and tedious. If I Did pretend play, I often tried to improvise and change the 'scene', believing it would add to the 'learning' experience. I remember John Holt wrote in one of his books something along the lines of following Their lead, as they invited You to play with Them. Very true. I wouldn't be playing pretend at this point of my life if I didn't have kids! Essentially, the child Does *own* the game . . . and they want to share it with us. How lovely!
I can still struggle playing pretend with my little ones. My mind can wonder to what Needs to be done around the home, vegetable patch, bills, etc. I have to actively shift my focus to their enjoyment. I love that, because it brings me back to the moment. Their enjoyment brings me enjoyment!
Kathryn
x
Debra Rossing
Start with a hug.
It sounds weird but turn off the sound track in your brain and use your
other senses (touch, taste, smell). Takes practice, I know (I'm a word
person too). Open up that awareness of everything else and slow down the
litany of 'stuff that needs to get done' in your head for a time (try
just 5 minutes to start). That's a big thing for most adults - letting
go of the "playing is for kids, I've got a dozen important things that I
could be using this time for..." soundtrack. A lot of the awkward
feelings go away once you drop the "I should be doing something useful
with my time" - If nothing else, enjoy just being near her, and getting
an insight into her brain/life. I'll bet if you do it for a week, you'll
have a much bigger list of things you find amazing about her
(Imagination, intensity of focus, physical dexterity, etc - I know that
I'm always amazed by DS' physical/spatial awareness).
Use "show me" language - "Where should I put this piece? How far should
I go? Etc" and let her direct where things go or how they should be.
When DS was littler, he'd want to play Bionicle Battles with me - I have
no idea about them. So, he'd set them up on the floor in the arrangement
he wanted, he'd let me know which were my team and give me a quick idea
of what type they were (water, fire, earth, ice, etc) Then I'd try to
think up an attack "Red guy there uses a fireball against your blue guy"
He'd do all the manipulating (including sound effects!) and on we'd go.
Being still and watching is good - watch how she plays and mimic that;
if she picks things up and flies them around making airplane noises, do
the same (until/unless she indicates you are to do something different);
if she's building, build or hand her pieces; if she's rolling across the
floor like a log, put soft stuff around for her to react to (bounce off,
change direction, etc). Watching her a lot will give you insight into
what kinds of play she likes so you can facilitate it, whether you are
playing or simply being nearby to interact occasionally.
She sounds much more physically attuned than verbally. As I said, I'm
really verbal...DS is more verbal now (he's 11) but he's been very
physical right from the get go. Lots of big muscle activity is important
for him even now. When he wants to play with me, it's not sitting and
reading together or whatever, it's almost a martial arts workout! He
tries to tap the back of my head or get behind me or something and I
counter, block, tap him on the butt or the back of the head or whatever
(all the martial arts moves I know I learned from Karate Kid lol!); we
might spar with padded "Boppers" that we've made (PVC pipe inside pool
noodles); he might be a pinball bouncing off of me and everything else;
he might try to push me backwards on the couch or make me move back a
step if I'm standing (in the process, he's learned a lot about leverage,
balance, etc - he's absolutely amazed that I can still pick him up and
carry him even now when he's barely 6 inches shorter than I am). A
squeeze hug is often a means of dealing with energy overload - we
squeeze as tightly as is comfortable for a time, I generally run my
hands up and down on the sides of his spine in a kind of deep massage as
we hug.
Deb R
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It sounds weird but turn off the sound track in your brain and use your
other senses (touch, taste, smell). Takes practice, I know (I'm a word
person too). Open up that awareness of everything else and slow down the
litany of 'stuff that needs to get done' in your head for a time (try
just 5 minutes to start). That's a big thing for most adults - letting
go of the "playing is for kids, I've got a dozen important things that I
could be using this time for..." soundtrack. A lot of the awkward
feelings go away once you drop the "I should be doing something useful
with my time" - If nothing else, enjoy just being near her, and getting
an insight into her brain/life. I'll bet if you do it for a week, you'll
have a much bigger list of things you find amazing about her
(Imagination, intensity of focus, physical dexterity, etc - I know that
I'm always amazed by DS' physical/spatial awareness).
Use "show me" language - "Where should I put this piece? How far should
I go? Etc" and let her direct where things go or how they should be.
When DS was littler, he'd want to play Bionicle Battles with me - I have
no idea about them. So, he'd set them up on the floor in the arrangement
he wanted, he'd let me know which were my team and give me a quick idea
of what type they were (water, fire, earth, ice, etc) Then I'd try to
think up an attack "Red guy there uses a fireball against your blue guy"
He'd do all the manipulating (including sound effects!) and on we'd go.
Being still and watching is good - watch how she plays and mimic that;
if she picks things up and flies them around making airplane noises, do
the same (until/unless she indicates you are to do something different);
if she's building, build or hand her pieces; if she's rolling across the
floor like a log, put soft stuff around for her to react to (bounce off,
change direction, etc). Watching her a lot will give you insight into
what kinds of play she likes so you can facilitate it, whether you are
playing or simply being nearby to interact occasionally.
She sounds much more physically attuned than verbally. As I said, I'm
really verbal...DS is more verbal now (he's 11) but he's been very
physical right from the get go. Lots of big muscle activity is important
for him even now. When he wants to play with me, it's not sitting and
reading together or whatever, it's almost a martial arts workout! He
tries to tap the back of my head or get behind me or something and I
counter, block, tap him on the butt or the back of the head or whatever
(all the martial arts moves I know I learned from Karate Kid lol!); we
might spar with padded "Boppers" that we've made (PVC pipe inside pool
noodles); he might be a pinball bouncing off of me and everything else;
he might try to push me backwards on the couch or make me move back a
step if I'm standing (in the process, he's learned a lot about leverage,
balance, etc - he's absolutely amazed that I can still pick him up and
carry him even now when he's barely 6 inches shorter than I am). A
squeeze hug is often a means of dealing with energy overload - we
squeeze as tightly as is comfortable for a time, I generally run my
hands up and down on the sides of his spine in a kind of deep massage as
we hug.
Deb R
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
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Robin Krest
My son asks us to make the stuffed animals talk. We would not make a special voice, as DS did not like that, we would hold it and ask questions, make statements as though they came from the animal, have a conversation. DS responded to the animal in ways he wouldn't if we as parents had asked the same thing, and we have some great times with it. He didn't care for puppets, but a stuffed animal is the best!
Robin K
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Robin K
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Dental Assistant Degree
Earn a Degree in Dental Assisting. Find Schools and Apply today!
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gruvystarchild
~~how to PLAY with HER. I guess no one has been observing her much. She was born during three years of intense family shifts and loss.~~
My first thought when you described your "snuggle" time that wasn't going well is that kid needs you to yell "Jump on my back" and go cavorting around the house or something! It sounds like she's very physical and needs more outlets for that.
My youngest sounds similar...didn't have speech until close to three years of age, high needs for physical games (large motor movements), very sensitive and intense emotionally and extremely energetic. Also born into a time of upheaval for our family and I'm pretty sure these sensitive types pick up on more than we realize.
Lots of times when I'm feeling aggravated with him I try to turn things into a game (totally depends on where he's at and the situation) but rather than "stop it" I just enter into whatever it is and have fun with him. Find ways to do whatever she's doing....even if it starts out as something aggravating to you. Jalen sometimes makes repetitive sounds and/or yells which I tend to dislike very much...but sometimes if I just howl or yell with him it seems to take a funny turn and then we just get it all out instead of squashing it.
A book my sister was reading described a nanny who would hug and kiss the child who was doing all the "disobedient" and "wild" activities. She would tell him sweet things and just love him up so much that he became more easy going. If your child is open to hugs and kisses in those rough moments, dole them out! Start a game, run away from her and ask her to catch you, toss balls to her, give her bowls and ingredients so she can make "potions" (Jalen would work on those for hours it seemed!) give her those physical outlets and be a part of them as much as possible.
She's very, very little...try to remember how big and difficult the world can be for a small person with only three years of experience.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
My first thought when you described your "snuggle" time that wasn't going well is that kid needs you to yell "Jump on my back" and go cavorting around the house or something! It sounds like she's very physical and needs more outlets for that.
My youngest sounds similar...didn't have speech until close to three years of age, high needs for physical games (large motor movements), very sensitive and intense emotionally and extremely energetic. Also born into a time of upheaval for our family and I'm pretty sure these sensitive types pick up on more than we realize.
Lots of times when I'm feeling aggravated with him I try to turn things into a game (totally depends on where he's at and the situation) but rather than "stop it" I just enter into whatever it is and have fun with him. Find ways to do whatever she's doing....even if it starts out as something aggravating to you. Jalen sometimes makes repetitive sounds and/or yells which I tend to dislike very much...but sometimes if I just howl or yell with him it seems to take a funny turn and then we just get it all out instead of squashing it.
A book my sister was reading described a nanny who would hug and kiss the child who was doing all the "disobedient" and "wild" activities. She would tell him sweet things and just love him up so much that he became more easy going. If your child is open to hugs and kisses in those rough moments, dole them out! Start a game, run away from her and ask her to catch you, toss balls to her, give her bowls and ingredients so she can make "potions" (Jalen would work on those for hours it seemed!) give her those physical outlets and be a part of them as much as possible.
She's very, very little...try to remember how big and difficult the world can be for a small person with only three years of experience.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Ronnie
What are her favorite toys and games? Follow her lead.
Is there one type of play that you enjoy more? For instance, if she likes building with Duplos and playing pretend, and you prefer building with Duplos, I think it's okay to start with that. (I don't mean you should force her to build with Duplos, but chances are, she's going to be so happy to have you playing with her at all, she won't mind the choice.) Just work some playing pretend into the building.
For example, I spent a lovely hour playing with my 3yo nephew not long ago. I built Duplo garages for successively larger cars, and he drove the cars into the garages. If he tried a too-large car, I added crash sound effects. I could also have made the cars talk. Imagine Ronnie with her big deep man-voice on: "Ouch! This garage is too small for me!"
Another thing that's really popular with the little ones is building a home or some other stageset and then moving smaller toys through it. Some Duplo sets come with little animals, or you can use stuffed or dimestore plastic ones.
Oh, and don't forget water play! Pull a stool up to the kitchen sink, run a trickle of water, and stand there (forever! lol!) while she runs water into measuring cups and pours water into bowls and makes a small toy splash in the waterfall. Have a double sink? Stand the 2yo on the other side and help them take turns with the water.
What else? Money. Marbles. Chalk. My 15yo daughter and a younger friend made a lifesized game board with sidewalk chalk a while back, and then we all went out and played their game. Hide and seek, and you and the baby can hide together. Bubbles! Balloons! Bouncy balls! What you choose is probably less important right now than the time you spend.
Later, when her tank is all filled up on lots of good Mom time, when you're spending less time playing referee and more time connecting, you can practice breathing and being with her even when she chooses the activity you like least.
Ronnie
http://sites.google.com/site/dragonflykaizen/
> I need help playing. Is it normal to feel really awkward playingIt's normal, and it's possible to get over it.
> certain ways? Bored? Disengaged?
Is there one type of play that you enjoy more? For instance, if she likes building with Duplos and playing pretend, and you prefer building with Duplos, I think it's okay to start with that. (I don't mean you should force her to build with Duplos, but chances are, she's going to be so happy to have you playing with her at all, she won't mind the choice.) Just work some playing pretend into the building.
For example, I spent a lovely hour playing with my 3yo nephew not long ago. I built Duplo garages for successively larger cars, and he drove the cars into the garages. If he tried a too-large car, I added crash sound effects. I could also have made the cars talk. Imagine Ronnie with her big deep man-voice on: "Ouch! This garage is too small for me!"
Another thing that's really popular with the little ones is building a home or some other stageset and then moving smaller toys through it. Some Duplo sets come with little animals, or you can use stuffed or dimestore plastic ones.
Oh, and don't forget water play! Pull a stool up to the kitchen sink, run a trickle of water, and stand there (forever! lol!) while she runs water into measuring cups and pours water into bowls and makes a small toy splash in the waterfall. Have a double sink? Stand the 2yo on the other side and help them take turns with the water.
What else? Money. Marbles. Chalk. My 15yo daughter and a younger friend made a lifesized game board with sidewalk chalk a while back, and then we all went out and played their game. Hide and seek, and you and the baby can hide together. Bubbles! Balloons! Bouncy balls! What you choose is probably less important right now than the time you spend.
Later, when her tank is all filled up on lots of good Mom time, when you're spending less time playing referee and more time connecting, you can practice breathing and being with her even when she chooses the activity you like least.
Ronnie
http://sites.google.com/site/dragonflykaizen/
aoibhneas7
Hi Allison
Wow - apart from the fact that I don't have any other children I could have written this post - I will be looking forward to the replies with interest. I too have a 3 and a half year old (nearly 4 really - in March), who is not into being verbal with me and who I am wondering how to play with!!! So no suggestions sorry
Mary
Wow - apart from the fact that I don't have any other children I could have written this post - I will be looking forward to the replies with interest. I too have a 3 and a half year old (nearly 4 really - in March), who is not into being verbal with me and who I am wondering how to play with!!! So no suggestions sorry
Mary
--- In [email protected], "AllisonR" <earlyhiker@...> wrote:
>
> So much to think about on this glorious fall day I am re-entering this post with a different title (previously More Lighting Rod Child) because after reading my post and the thoughtful, generous answers I realize that what I really want help with is that I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ENGAGE AND PLAY WITH MY DAUGHTER! All your responses hit the mark.
> 1. I AM busy with a little 2 year old and
> 2. she was NOT ready to share me,
> 3. punishment will not change the family dynamic we are becoming stuck in and
> 4. she is left out and excluded from a lot of cool things her older, more experienced brother get to do because her behavior limits what we all can do together(ie children's theatre) so we tend to do them without her (that would royally piss me off, too)
> 5. we all are expecting too much from such a small, not verbally-skilled girl.
>
> My husband, I and my three sons (10, 6, and 2) are all intensely VERBAL people. My 3.5 yr-old daughter is decidedly NOT. What has worked wonderfully with the rest of my family does not work with her and I realize that her needs are not met in the way that I would normally meet intimate needs with words and books and stories and silly songs and such. So, that is quite a revelation! When I ask her to communicate with me verbally it is as if someone were to say to me "Just do a double back flip and then we will meet your needs." That skill is just not (yet?) in her cache. I sure as hell can't do a double back flip to save my life and would starve both emotionally and physically if that were what was required.
>
> So, a big empathetic breakthrough there thanks all.
>
> Now, I am in the glow of that new perspective but I am still a very intensely verbal person and I stumble with what else is out there theoretically, I know that there are many ways to interface with the world but I have book learnin', y'all not the practical, rubber meets the road stuff I need with her. Obviously, this shift in perspective will allow all of us to be gentler with her which can't but help. Also, I will observe her for the info I need, but has anyone else run up against a totally different "world view" with their child? She comes at life at a right angle from where I come from.
>
> I am struggling with how to PLAY with HER. I guess no one has been observing her much. She was born during three years of intense family shifts and loss. Someone last post recommended making a list of all the things I like about her and I came up with a paltry, few things. Like, she has hilariously, beautiful hair...sweet, but the brevity of the list broke my heart.
>
> I am sure I will learn, I want to learn, but sometimes I or her siblings want to engage, but our dynamic is such that she goes on the offensive and turns into a pill before anything nice can happen. Sort of like hit before you get hit or call yourself ugly before the mean girls in Jr. High can call you ugly
>
> I need help playing. Is it normal to feel really awkward playing certain ways? Bored? Disengaged? When she does lead the play, I can now see that I sort of change it, improvise, thinking that I am adding to it. But maybe not? I need to be still and just watch. But, how can one tell when to join in? I guess I can't consistently recognize an invitation from my daughter.
>
> Where to start?
>
rdusseldorp
There is an interesting article in the New York Times by Alfie Kohn on unconditional and conditional parenting that your husband might find helpful. Here's the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/health/15mind.html?_r=1&em
My children are still young (dd just turned 3 and ds almost 5), but perhaps one of our family rituals may be helpful with your 3 year old.
- Original Play (http://www.enjoyparenting.com/originalplay) The speaker in the video, O. Fred Donaldson, talks about the deeper meaning of play and spent time playing with wild animals and says playing with wild humans (children) is no different.
- My daughter one day was talking to her doll in a baby language and I just joined in the conversation. It's a completely made up, imaginary language - sort of like Pebbles and Bambam in The Flintstones - but we talk in this language every few days as "our" game. Even though she is very verbal, she sometimes prefers this language. Maybe because there is no anger, anxiety, frustration, fear, exhaustion in my tone or words and instead my imaginary words are meant to convey love, delight, wonder, surprise, agreement, empathy, happiness and lots of laughter. I can't always maintain such high standards when I talk in a real language, but in this language, it's a breeze. Sometimes, it's also the only language that calms her down after a bad dream.
- I've made a high energy dance cd of my favourite music - music that just can't help but put me in a good mood and makes me want to dance. If there are melt downs and I've done my best to give comfort to everyone involved, I then sometimes tell them, "and now mama needs to dance". We move the furniture, turn our little living room into a disco and pretty soon everyone is dancing and singing - on tables, on couches, dressed up, synchronized.
- Sometimes when my child is really upset and can no longer talk because they are so overcome with emotion, I try to see things from only their perspective and talk for them. For example, "that wasn't fair. you just wanted to play with your brother, but he got really angry with you and that is making you feel sad and angry and frustrated. It's important to you that you play a game together, but he pushed you away and that made you feel like he doesn't love you". A lot of times I'm just guessing at what my child might be thinking or feeling, but at some point they start connecting to the conversation and nodding or shaking their head in agreement or disagreement. Then they use their words to tell me what they are feeling.
- Individual dates with each parent where it's just one parent and one child and it's all about that child
- I've asked each of my children to come up with games themselves that the other can join in and that would be fun for everyone. They come up with simple games: one person is the builder and one person is the destroyer and each tries to build or destroy with the blocks faster than the other one. Or one is the soft ball thrower and the other one has a light basket on the floor that they try to move in order to catch the ball.
- Make a book with child drawings and/or paintings and ask them to say what they love about their sibling, their favourite funny story about their sibling, what they remember doing with their sibling when they were really young, etc. The book "The Creative Family: How to Encourage Imagination and Nurture Family Connections" by Amanda Blake Soule has been really inspiring in our house with crafty things. Perhaps you could check it out from the library to see if there are any helpful ideas for your family.
- Try to keep their cups full - giving lots of big, focussed bits of individual attention throughout the day, even if it's for only minutes at a time
Rippy
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/health/15mind.html?_r=1&em
My children are still young (dd just turned 3 and ds almost 5), but perhaps one of our family rituals may be helpful with your 3 year old.
- Original Play (http://www.enjoyparenting.com/originalplay) The speaker in the video, O. Fred Donaldson, talks about the deeper meaning of play and spent time playing with wild animals and says playing with wild humans (children) is no different.
- My daughter one day was talking to her doll in a baby language and I just joined in the conversation. It's a completely made up, imaginary language - sort of like Pebbles and Bambam in The Flintstones - but we talk in this language every few days as "our" game. Even though she is very verbal, she sometimes prefers this language. Maybe because there is no anger, anxiety, frustration, fear, exhaustion in my tone or words and instead my imaginary words are meant to convey love, delight, wonder, surprise, agreement, empathy, happiness and lots of laughter. I can't always maintain such high standards when I talk in a real language, but in this language, it's a breeze. Sometimes, it's also the only language that calms her down after a bad dream.
- I've made a high energy dance cd of my favourite music - music that just can't help but put me in a good mood and makes me want to dance. If there are melt downs and I've done my best to give comfort to everyone involved, I then sometimes tell them, "and now mama needs to dance". We move the furniture, turn our little living room into a disco and pretty soon everyone is dancing and singing - on tables, on couches, dressed up, synchronized.
- Sometimes when my child is really upset and can no longer talk because they are so overcome with emotion, I try to see things from only their perspective and talk for them. For example, "that wasn't fair. you just wanted to play with your brother, but he got really angry with you and that is making you feel sad and angry and frustrated. It's important to you that you play a game together, but he pushed you away and that made you feel like he doesn't love you". A lot of times I'm just guessing at what my child might be thinking or feeling, but at some point they start connecting to the conversation and nodding or shaking their head in agreement or disagreement. Then they use their words to tell me what they are feeling.
- Individual dates with each parent where it's just one parent and one child and it's all about that child
- I've asked each of my children to come up with games themselves that the other can join in and that would be fun for everyone. They come up with simple games: one person is the builder and one person is the destroyer and each tries to build or destroy with the blocks faster than the other one. Or one is the soft ball thrower and the other one has a light basket on the floor that they try to move in order to catch the ball.
- Make a book with child drawings and/or paintings and ask them to say what they love about their sibling, their favourite funny story about their sibling, what they remember doing with their sibling when they were really young, etc. The book "The Creative Family: How to Encourage Imagination and Nurture Family Connections" by Amanda Blake Soule has been really inspiring in our house with crafty things. Perhaps you could check it out from the library to see if there are any helpful ideas for your family.
- Try to keep their cups full - giving lots of big, focussed bits of individual attention throughout the day, even if it's for only minutes at a time
Rippy
~*~Tracy Austin
How about making, then playing with, play dough together? (google home made play dough for recipes)
Listen to some fun music and dance with her.
Take a bath, or fill the sink with sudsy water and let her help you do the dishes.
Make bread or biscuits, rolls something that requires hands-on with the dough.
Make tents with blankets and chairs.
Ask her "what do you think?" a lot.
With love,
Tracy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Listen to some fun music and dance with her.
Take a bath, or fill the sink with sudsy water and let her help you do the dishes.
Make bread or biscuits, rolls something that requires hands-on with the dough.
Make tents with blankets and chairs.
Ask her "what do you think?" a lot.
With love,
Tracy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
> Make bread or biscuits, rolls something that requires hands-on withthe dough.
Philly style soft pretzels are great for this - simple recipe, no long
rising times, it's a lot like playdough but then you get to eat it! And
this time of year, soft, warm pretzels go great alongside a nice hot
bowl of soup.
Deb R
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plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing" <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
---Meredith
> > Philly style soft pretzels are great for this - simple recipe, no longOMG, Deb, that sounds so good... I know what I'm doing tomorrow!
> rising times, it's a lot like playdough but then you get to eat it!
---Meredith
Rod Thomas
where is this recipe pls? all I can find is the knead forever, rise, boil,
bake, etc. recipes. forget that!
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Debra Rossing
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: How to Play?
Philly style soft pretzels are great for this - simple recipe, no long
rising times, it's a lot like playdough but then you get to eat it! And
this time of year, soft, warm pretzels go great alongside a nice hot
bowl of soup.
Deb R
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bake, etc. recipes. forget that!
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Debra Rossing
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: How to Play?
> Make bread or biscuits, rolls something that requires hands-on withthe dough.
Philly style soft pretzels are great for this - simple recipe, no long
rising times, it's a lot like playdough but then you get to eat it! And
this time of year, soft, warm pretzels go great alongside a nice hot
bowl of soup.
Deb R
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Debra Rossing
Bagels usually require rising, broil, boil, bake, not pretzels...here's the recipe we love from a friend who lives in the Philly area:
2 pkg dry yeast
1 ½ cups warm water
2 tbl sugar
1 tsp salt
4 cups flour
1 egg, beaten
Preheat oven to 425
Mix together yeast and water
Add sugar, salt and flour, mixing well
Place on floured surface (counter or board)
Knead for 5 minutes
Break of chunks of dough. Roll into ropes and shape
Place on greased baking sheet spaced about 2 inches apart
Brush with beaten egg (for a nice glossy outside) and sprinkle with salt (or other topping such as cinnamon sugar or grated parmesan or garlic, just like the pretzel stores)
Bake at 425 for 12-15 minutes until golden brown
Mix it up, knead 5 minutes, shape and bake... the rolling and shaping take some time but that's the activity part of it
Also, you can add a drop or two of your favorite food coloring to either the dough or the egg wash to make colorful pretzels as well. You can even use a light sprinkle of colored sugars to make holiday versions (for a sweet bagel rather than savory).
Deb R
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2 pkg dry yeast
1 ½ cups warm water
2 tbl sugar
1 tsp salt
4 cups flour
1 egg, beaten
Preheat oven to 425
Mix together yeast and water
Add sugar, salt and flour, mixing well
Place on floured surface (counter or board)
Knead for 5 minutes
Break of chunks of dough. Roll into ropes and shape
Place on greased baking sheet spaced about 2 inches apart
Brush with beaten egg (for a nice glossy outside) and sprinkle with salt (or other topping such as cinnamon sugar or grated parmesan or garlic, just like the pretzel stores)
Bake at 425 for 12-15 minutes until golden brown
Mix it up, knead 5 minutes, shape and bake... the rolling and shaping take some time but that's the activity part of it
Also, you can add a drop or two of your favorite food coloring to either the dough or the egg wash to make colorful pretzels as well. You can even use a light sprinkle of colored sugars to make holiday versions (for a sweet bagel rather than savory).
Deb R
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Jacque Valdez
Wow those sound great thanks...we were walking past Subway the other night
as they were closing up and they had these huge pretzels in the window and
my kids went nuts.....perfect timing.
Jacque
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:27 AM, Debra Rossing
<debra.rossing@...>wrote:
as they were closing up and they had these huge pretzels in the window and
my kids went nuts.....perfect timing.
Jacque
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:27 AM, Debra Rossing
<debra.rossing@...>wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Bagels usually require rising, broil, boil, bake, not pretzels...here's the
> recipe we love from a friend who lives in the Philly area:
>
> 2 pkg dry yeast
> 1 � cups warm water
> 2 tbl sugar
> 1 tsp salt
> 4 cups flour
> 1 egg, beaten
>
> Preheat oven to 425
> Mix together yeast and water
> Add sugar, salt and flour, mixing well
> Place on floured surface (counter or board)
> Knead for 5 minutes
> Break of chunks of dough. Roll into ropes and shape
> Place on greased baking sheet spaced about 2 inches apart
> Brush with beaten egg (for a nice glossy outside) and sprinkle with salt
> (or other topping such as cinnamon sugar or grated parmesan or garlic, just
> like the pretzel stores)
> Bake at 425 for 12-15 minutes until golden brown
>
> Mix it up, knead 5 minutes, shape and bake... the rolling and shaping take
> some time but that's the activity part of it
>
> Also, you can add a drop or two of your favorite food coloring to either
> the dough or the egg wash to make colorful pretzels as well. You can even
> use a light sprinkle of colored sugars to make holiday versions (for a sweet
> bagel rather than savory).
>
>
> Deb R
>
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>
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>
>
>