Lightning Rod Kids
AllisonR
I have four children. One, my only daughter, really yanks my chain. Our relationship is so charged with ugly things and she is only 3.5 years old -- but it is very negative. I know that I am an active participant in this muck and I know that I, personally, have mother-daughter issues. I am desperate to change the dynamic between my daughter and myself and have read a lot online and various books (Raising our Children, Raising Ourselves, Unconditional Parenting).
I am slowly doing the long, dark, dirty work of untangling my personal knotted rope -- so the specific issues are not what I want to take up everyone's time with--they have to do with rejection, criticism and anger. Lovely things to plant in my 3-year-old's garden, no? I have a lot of shame for creating this relationship with her. Shame that is helping me stay focused on changing... appropriate shame?
Has anyone else had a particular lightning rod of a child that charges up personal stuff that you (lol) though you had in order. Good God! I thought I had worked this out with my mom...until I became a mother to a daughter and ....BAM!
I am trying so hard, but the old habits are SO deep. I see myself hurting her feelings, her soul...poisoning her, really.
I bring up this very sensitive personal issue to this group because I guess I am looking for honest commentary on this issue...not soothing, reassurance. If Unschooling is about allowing children to follow their delight, to strew their path, to see THIS moment as life not preparation for 'life'...to create and nurture the relationships you most value, what am I 'strewing' along the family's path?. All my children are witness to my relationship with my Daughter. I am the model of how to treat her. I can see where I want to be...I just keep slipping into the mud.
In peace and growing,
Allison
I am slowly doing the long, dark, dirty work of untangling my personal knotted rope -- so the specific issues are not what I want to take up everyone's time with--they have to do with rejection, criticism and anger. Lovely things to plant in my 3-year-old's garden, no? I have a lot of shame for creating this relationship with her. Shame that is helping me stay focused on changing... appropriate shame?
Has anyone else had a particular lightning rod of a child that charges up personal stuff that you (lol) though you had in order. Good God! I thought I had worked this out with my mom...until I became a mother to a daughter and ....BAM!
I am trying so hard, but the old habits are SO deep. I see myself hurting her feelings, her soul...poisoning her, really.
I bring up this very sensitive personal issue to this group because I guess I am looking for honest commentary on this issue...not soothing, reassurance. If Unschooling is about allowing children to follow their delight, to strew their path, to see THIS moment as life not preparation for 'life'...to create and nurture the relationships you most value, what am I 'strewing' along the family's path?. All my children are witness to my relationship with my Daughter. I am the model of how to treat her. I can see where I want to be...I just keep slipping into the mud.
In peace and growing,
Allison
Beth Williams
Allison-I feel you COMPLETELY (I have 2 girls)! I'm working on the same
thing and have made significant progress in the last 2 years. I'm still not
perfect (will I ever be?) but I see w/ hard work and lots of apologies to my
children, our lives are headed more in the direction that makes me happy and
hopefully will make them, whole, happy people who feel loved. My mother
died 6 years ago, so this has all been done w/o her. It's not necessary to
do any work WITH her (some feel they can't even do that, even if the person
is alive!)....just with yourself. In reality we can't change our mothers,
it won't change what was done to us anyway, but we can break the chain of
abuse and neglect. To me, it sounds like you're on the right track. I have
visuals in my head, like a mountain I keep chipping away at & lots of 2
steps forward, one step back. Every time my buttons are pushed w/ my
children (not by them, it is not their fault!) I try to remember that I
brought them into this world --I can not hurt them (nor do I want to), I
love them more than anything, this is MY issue, NOT theirs. The difference
between us and our mothers is that we have awareness and want to do
something about it. That's a good thing. I just know that I HAVE to break
this chain and even if my work is not complete by the time they are grown,
they will have more of a head start on how they treat their children, than I
did with mine. Old habits DO die hard, I think accepting this as a "work in
progress" helps you move forward and "beating yourself up" keeps you in the
same place (angry). Apologies are worth A LOT (IMO) ---my mother never
apologized AND never faced what was scary about parenthood. Telling all of
your kids what you said or did was wrong and as soon as you realize you're
in the muck, try hard to get out of it (like...if you're like "old" me and
my mother, that = feelings of resentment and withholding love and affection
--which I no longer do because I know it's not about them, it's about me and
I'm HURTING them by doing that as a reaction to my past hurt). Realize
she's being herself and she's unique and special the way she is even though
it sometimes pushes your buttons, nurture who she is (and not who you want
her to be). A couple of books that helped me (not necessarily unschooling
books) were "Raising Your Spirited Child" --I think that was it...it was
years ago...but the thing that stuck w/ me was about the words we use to
describe children. For instance "strong willed" instead of "stubborn".
Strong willed is a "good" trait in human beings, stubborn="bad" --and just
using different (more positive) words changes your outlook on them, their
behavior, how it affects you and how they see themselves. The other book is
Alice Miller's "Drama of the Gifted Child" --she talks a lot about abuse of
children (this one is particularly about the kind we're talking about....not
the blatant physical abuse, more of the insidious mental abuse).
Take care and good luck (or rather, -do well- as an old professor of mine
used to say) on your journey.
Beth
thing and have made significant progress in the last 2 years. I'm still not
perfect (will I ever be?) but I see w/ hard work and lots of apologies to my
children, our lives are headed more in the direction that makes me happy and
hopefully will make them, whole, happy people who feel loved. My mother
died 6 years ago, so this has all been done w/o her. It's not necessary to
do any work WITH her (some feel they can't even do that, even if the person
is alive!)....just with yourself. In reality we can't change our mothers,
it won't change what was done to us anyway, but we can break the chain of
abuse and neglect. To me, it sounds like you're on the right track. I have
visuals in my head, like a mountain I keep chipping away at & lots of 2
steps forward, one step back. Every time my buttons are pushed w/ my
children (not by them, it is not their fault!) I try to remember that I
brought them into this world --I can not hurt them (nor do I want to), I
love them more than anything, this is MY issue, NOT theirs. The difference
between us and our mothers is that we have awareness and want to do
something about it. That's a good thing. I just know that I HAVE to break
this chain and even if my work is not complete by the time they are grown,
they will have more of a head start on how they treat their children, than I
did with mine. Old habits DO die hard, I think accepting this as a "work in
progress" helps you move forward and "beating yourself up" keeps you in the
same place (angry). Apologies are worth A LOT (IMO) ---my mother never
apologized AND never faced what was scary about parenthood. Telling all of
your kids what you said or did was wrong and as soon as you realize you're
in the muck, try hard to get out of it (like...if you're like "old" me and
my mother, that = feelings of resentment and withholding love and affection
--which I no longer do because I know it's not about them, it's about me and
I'm HURTING them by doing that as a reaction to my past hurt). Realize
she's being herself and she's unique and special the way she is even though
it sometimes pushes your buttons, nurture who she is (and not who you want
her to be). A couple of books that helped me (not necessarily unschooling
books) were "Raising Your Spirited Child" --I think that was it...it was
years ago...but the thing that stuck w/ me was about the words we use to
describe children. For instance "strong willed" instead of "stubborn".
Strong willed is a "good" trait in human beings, stubborn="bad" --and just
using different (more positive) words changes your outlook on them, their
behavior, how it affects you and how they see themselves. The other book is
Alice Miller's "Drama of the Gifted Child" --she talks a lot about abuse of
children (this one is particularly about the kind we're talking about....not
the blatant physical abuse, more of the insidious mental abuse).
Take care and good luck (or rather, -do well- as an old professor of mine
used to say) on your journey.
Beth
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 9:57 AM, AllisonR <earlyhiker@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have four children. One, my only daughter, really yanks my chain. Our
> relationship is so charged with ugly things and she is only 3.5 years old --
> but it is very negative. I know that I am an active participant in this muck
> and I know that I, personally, have mother-daughter issues. I am desperate
> to change the dynamic between my daughter and myself and have read a lot
> online and various books (Raising our Children, Raising Ourselves,
> Unconditional Parenting).
>
> I am slowly doing the long, dark, dirty work of untangling my personal
> knotted rope -- so the specific issues are not what I want to take up
> everyone's time with--they have to do with rejection, criticism and anger.
> Lovely things to plant in my 3-year-old's garden, no? I have a lot of shame
> for creating this relationship with her. Shame that is helping me stay
> focused on changing... appropriate shame?
>
> Has anyone else had a particular lightning rod of a child that charges up
> personal stuff that you (lol) though you had in order. Good God! I thought I
> had worked this out with my mom...until I became a mother to a daughter and
> ....BAM!
>
> I am trying so hard, but the old habits are SO deep. I see myself hurting
> her feelings, her soul...poisoning her, really.
>
> I bring up this very sensitive personal issue to this group because I guess
> I am looking for honest commentary on this issue...not soothing,
> reassurance. If Unschooling is about allowing children to follow their
> delight, to strew their path, to see THIS moment as life not preparation for
> 'life'...to create and nurture the relationships you most value, what am I
> 'strewing' along the family's path?. All my children are witness to my
> relationship with my Daughter. I am the model of how to treat her. I can see
> where I want to be...I just keep slipping into the mud.
>
> In peace and growing,
> Allison
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyla Wolfenstein
i also wanted to recommend the book "giving the love that heals" by harville hendrix
warmly, lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
warmly, lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Make the choice to stop now.
She is 3.5 years old but in a blink of an eye she will be big and you will have lost the opportunity!
Worse yet, who guarantees you or her will be here tomorrow?
When I am being ugly with my children and stepping back taking a deep breath is not working I imagine how I would feel if they were gone the next day.
Let me tell you that changes how you see things.
If you need professional help go seek one for YOU.
You say:
>I have four children. One, my only daughter, really yanks my chain. Our
You baby is NOT responsible for how you treat her.
I read a book when I was in my early 20's that was very shocking.
It was about a child that was severely abused by her mother and the siblings were not.
I am not going to go into details of all that that person went through but it is horrifying.
I am not in any way saying you are doing that. But maybe it would put perspective on your relationship.
The name of the book was : " A Child Called It"
I hope others can give you some more great ideas and I am sorry if I sound hard but you asked for it and I can see you want help to change. It takes courage and I give you that.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
She is 3.5 years old but in a blink of an eye she will be big and you will have lost the opportunity!
Worse yet, who guarantees you or her will be here tomorrow?
When I am being ugly with my children and stepping back taking a deep breath is not working I imagine how I would feel if they were gone the next day.
Let me tell you that changes how you see things.
If you need professional help go seek one for YOU.
You say:
>I have four children. One, my only daughter, really yanks my chain. Our
> relationship is so charged with ugly things and she is only 3.5 years old --You are not "an active participant" you are the ONLY active participant.
> but it is very negative. I know that I am an active participant in this muck
> and I know that I, personally, have mother-daughter issues.<<<<
You baby is NOT responsible for how you treat her.
I read a book when I was in my early 20's that was very shocking.
It was about a child that was severely abused by her mother and the siblings were not.
I am not going to go into details of all that that person went through but it is horrifying.
I am not in any way saying you are doing that. But maybe it would put perspective on your relationship.
The name of the book was : " A Child Called It"
I hope others can give you some more great ideas and I am sorry if I sound hard but you asked for it and I can see you want help to change. It takes courage and I give you that.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "AllisonR" <earlyhiker@...> wrote:
Can you see yourself doing it in the moment? If you can, stop. Stop right in the middle of a sentence and appologise. If you're all worked up and need to get some stuff Out, then use some "I" statements. Say "I'm sooooo frustrated right now!" or "I'm so hungry I can't Think!" or whatever applies. If its not too frightening, growl like an animal or shout gibbrish at the ceiling. Then back up and start again.
If you can't see it in the moment, appologise later. Seeing what you're doing is the first step, admitting you're wrong is next.
Catching yourself is important for changing those bad habits. Some counselling might be important, too, either solo or together, but that won't necessarily stop you in the moment. Only you can do that - and You CAN do that. It takes time and practice.
Take time every day to value your dd for Who She Is. This was something we had to consciously do with Ray for awhile, George and I together. The issue wasn't quite the same, but we'd fallen into the trap of thinking of him as a "problem kid" and needed to pull ourselves out of it. So we agreed to find nice things to say to and about Ray every day, to him and to each other. It was Haaaaard at first. We had to start with "that wasn't as bad as it could have been" and work our way up from there, but as we got in the habit of seeing the good and positive aspects of Ray, momentum built, and it got easier and easier. If others in the family have been affected by your habits, ask them to help you.
Let your dd know, over and over, that its not Her, its not her fault. Its you and you're sorry and you're trying to change. Say it out loud where other family members can hear. Be honest with the rest of the family that you don't like the way you've been treating your dd and want to change it - that's important. Otherwise your relationship with your dd is the Dead Elephant in the house. You don't need one of those, I think you know what its like to live with one :(
Take little steps and see yourself moving forward. There will be back sliding, but its important to see your own progress, it will help you build confidence in yourself.
You Can do this!
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>> I am trying so hard, but the old habits are SO deep. I see myself hurting her feelings, her soul...poisoning her, really.*******************
Can you see yourself doing it in the moment? If you can, stop. Stop right in the middle of a sentence and appologise. If you're all worked up and need to get some stuff Out, then use some "I" statements. Say "I'm sooooo frustrated right now!" or "I'm so hungry I can't Think!" or whatever applies. If its not too frightening, growl like an animal or shout gibbrish at the ceiling. Then back up and start again.
If you can't see it in the moment, appologise later. Seeing what you're doing is the first step, admitting you're wrong is next.
Catching yourself is important for changing those bad habits. Some counselling might be important, too, either solo or together, but that won't necessarily stop you in the moment. Only you can do that - and You CAN do that. It takes time and practice.
Take time every day to value your dd for Who She Is. This was something we had to consciously do with Ray for awhile, George and I together. The issue wasn't quite the same, but we'd fallen into the trap of thinking of him as a "problem kid" and needed to pull ourselves out of it. So we agreed to find nice things to say to and about Ray every day, to him and to each other. It was Haaaaard at first. We had to start with "that wasn't as bad as it could have been" and work our way up from there, but as we got in the habit of seeing the good and positive aspects of Ray, momentum built, and it got easier and easier. If others in the family have been affected by your habits, ask them to help you.
Let your dd know, over and over, that its not Her, its not her fault. Its you and you're sorry and you're trying to change. Say it out loud where other family members can hear. Be honest with the rest of the family that you don't like the way you've been treating your dd and want to change it - that's important. Otherwise your relationship with your dd is the Dead Elephant in the house. You don't need one of those, I think you know what its like to live with one :(
Take little steps and see yourself moving forward. There will be back sliding, but its important to see your own progress, it will help you build confidence in yourself.
You Can do this!
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:57 AM, AllisonR wrote:
But before those, shoot for better. Try to make right now, this
moment with her better. If your immediate goal is perfection you're
setting yourself up to fail. Just make each moment better.
To change you need 1) a reason to stop, 2) an awareness in order to
stop yourself *before* you react, and 3) something to do instead.
First, write down a list of things you love and like and admire about
her.
I don't know why we humans have a tendency to treat what's good and
right as though those were the norm and then focus on the
imperfections. Awareness of what's wrong is good for problem solving.
But focusing on what is good and right in what we have is the
foundation of peace and happiness.
Second, right now, while you're calm or not being triggered by her,
go over some typical interactions with her. Find what triggers you so
you can stop yourself before you react. This will take practice!
Habits are hard to break.
Third, when you know you're heading for that harsh pathway with her,
what can you do *instead*? The simplest thing is several deep
breaths. Push your belly and diaphragm out so you're getting as much
air as you can and loosening those muscles. The oxygen will help. The
pause will help. Maybe smelling her head will help. Maybe touching
her. Maybe going through the list of things you love about her will
help.
Fourth, spontaneously be loving. Take her her favorite food. Go right
now and give her a big hug. Make it a habit to do an act of loving
kindness several times a day. Keep the reasons you wrote down in
mind. *Work* at changing your mental state around her. Work at
separating from her the negative thoughts you have associated with
her. Work at seeing her differently. Work at side tracking those
negative feelings. The negative feelings aren't wrong. There's some
reason for them that has nothing to do with her. They're misdirected
and out of place. They're not helpful for your goal with your daughter.
Could there be something deeper? Could her presence, something about
her manner, be triggering some memory or event you want to stay
buried? So your lashing out is self-preservation? You don't need to
answer that on list. But it's something to think about and find
professional help for if that's the case.
Joyce
> I am trying so hard, but the old habits are SO deep.A few things come immediately to mind that might help.
But before those, shoot for better. Try to make right now, this
moment with her better. If your immediate goal is perfection you're
setting yourself up to fail. Just make each moment better.
To change you need 1) a reason to stop, 2) an awareness in order to
stop yourself *before* you react, and 3) something to do instead.
First, write down a list of things you love and like and admire about
her.
I don't know why we humans have a tendency to treat what's good and
right as though those were the norm and then focus on the
imperfections. Awareness of what's wrong is good for problem solving.
But focusing on what is good and right in what we have is the
foundation of peace and happiness.
Second, right now, while you're calm or not being triggered by her,
go over some typical interactions with her. Find what triggers you so
you can stop yourself before you react. This will take practice!
Habits are hard to break.
Third, when you know you're heading for that harsh pathway with her,
what can you do *instead*? The simplest thing is several deep
breaths. Push your belly and diaphragm out so you're getting as much
air as you can and loosening those muscles. The oxygen will help. The
pause will help. Maybe smelling her head will help. Maybe touching
her. Maybe going through the list of things you love about her will
help.
Fourth, spontaneously be loving. Take her her favorite food. Go right
now and give her a big hug. Make it a habit to do an act of loving
kindness several times a day. Keep the reasons you wrote down in
mind. *Work* at changing your mental state around her. Work at
separating from her the negative thoughts you have associated with
her. Work at seeing her differently. Work at side tracking those
negative feelings. The negative feelings aren't wrong. There's some
reason for them that has nothing to do with her. They're misdirected
and out of place. They're not helpful for your goal with your daughter.
Could there be something deeper? Could her presence, something about
her manner, be triggering some memory or event you want to stay
buried? So your lashing out is self-preservation? You don't need to
answer that on list. But it's something to think about and find
professional help for if that's the case.
Joyce
Ulrike Haupt
Dear Allison
First of all - start approving of yourself - as you are!- daughter of your mother and mother of your daughter. From my own 'reactions' and watching myself as mother of three daughtes and grandmother of some I know that soo much is 'automatic' response stuff - which can be changed eventually.
Though EVERY TIME you beat up on yourself it holds you back. Then would be a good moment to do a ho'oponopono session "My screaming fit", I'm sorry, please forgive me, Thank you! I love you.
Blissings
Ulrike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
First of all - start approving of yourself - as you are!- daughter of your mother and mother of your daughter. From my own 'reactions' and watching myself as mother of three daughtes and grandmother of some I know that soo much is 'automatic' response stuff - which can be changed eventually.
Though EVERY TIME you beat up on yourself it holds you back. Then would be a good moment to do a ho'oponopono session "My screaming fit", I'm sorry, please forgive me, Thank you! I love you.
Blissings
Ulrike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AllisonR
I have been overwhelmed by the supportive and generous responses to this post -- both those who contacted me personally and those who posted online. I have been writing responses in my head for the past couple of days...but rather than begin a personal conversation on the unschooling group, I just want to say thank you all and I have gained much needed perspective and am chewing on many new ideas. It is a long road, no? uphill much of the way...might as well strive to make it a peaceful one...a joyfull one.
Allison
Allison