roadschooling and MATH
Nancy Sathre-Vogel
"I don't think building in algebra is easy to do earlier - not sure what
you mean? I don't know what "earlier" means to you, either."
I guess I was thinking that sometimes kids (and adults) don't know what they
want until they get there. Let's take my mathematician son for example - he
has always loved math and I can see that he might very well choose to do
something with that as an adult. But - if he didn't have the language of
mathematics, he might not love it as much as he does, therefore not go into
it. We'll never know, of course.
I think there is power in knowledge. The more I learn the more I realize I
have to learn. Yes - my boys are getting tons of info about the world and
cultures and Mother Nature and all that from our journey - but they can't
get the higher level mathematics and it's language from our journey. In
order to give them the mathematical power they want (and may need at some
point) we want to give it to them now rather than waiting until they decide
they "need" it. And we have found the more they know about mathematics, the
more creatively they solve problems.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that kids don't necessarily see all the
possibilities out there. My boys never would have dreamed up biking from
Alaska to Argentina on their own - it took my husband and I suggesting it
for them to see it was even a possiblity. Once we suggested it, they jumped
on board immediately. We don't want to close mathematical doors for the boys
by choosing not to suggest it for them.
--
Dreaming of dropping out of society to travel with your kids? Follow along
as we do exactly that! www.familyonbikes.org
Nancy Sathre-Vogel
10680 W. Hollandale Dr.
Boise, Idaho 83709
(208)376-5422
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you mean? I don't know what "earlier" means to you, either."
I guess I was thinking that sometimes kids (and adults) don't know what they
want until they get there. Let's take my mathematician son for example - he
has always loved math and I can see that he might very well choose to do
something with that as an adult. But - if he didn't have the language of
mathematics, he might not love it as much as he does, therefore not go into
it. We'll never know, of course.
I think there is power in knowledge. The more I learn the more I realize I
have to learn. Yes - my boys are getting tons of info about the world and
cultures and Mother Nature and all that from our journey - but they can't
get the higher level mathematics and it's language from our journey. In
order to give them the mathematical power they want (and may need at some
point) we want to give it to them now rather than waiting until they decide
they "need" it. And we have found the more they know about mathematics, the
more creatively they solve problems.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that kids don't necessarily see all the
possibilities out there. My boys never would have dreamed up biking from
Alaska to Argentina on their own - it took my husband and I suggesting it
for them to see it was even a possiblity. Once we suggested it, they jumped
on board immediately. We don't want to close mathematical doors for the boys
by choosing not to suggest it for them.
--
Dreaming of dropping out of society to travel with your kids? Follow along
as we do exactly that! www.familyonbikes.org
Nancy Sathre-Vogel
10680 W. Hollandale Dr.
Boise, Idaho 83709
(208)376-5422
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Nancy Sathre-Vogel <sathren@...> wrote:
You don't need to study music theory to play the piano, or study art history to paint - those are things that people who enjoy what they are doing may be drawn to study, though. Those topics can help answer question like "how do I portray emotion via this medium?" Similarly, you don't need to know the language of trignometry to build a stair case or a gabled roof, but in the process of building you may become inspired to learn that language, to enhance your process and performance.
That's not to say you shouldn't strew new things and ideas and opportunites - strew away! Suggest and offer and encourage! But do those things with an eye on your kids' joy and fascination Right Now, not whatever they Might do ten, twenty years down the road. Beyond uncertainty about the future, when you focus on what your kids Might need and be down the road, you aren't seeing them clearly for Who They Are right now, and that's a loss. Childhood only happens in the moment.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
> But - if he didn't have the language ofWhich language of mathematics? I've had to learn the mathematical language of carpentry, and its a different language than I learned in school. Not only that, I'm having to learn it in "spanglish" too, so I can talk to Spanish speaking trim carpenters. Maybe you're hoping your son will never have to walk onto a construction site as anything below the level of engineer, but my parents hoped that for me, once upon a time. So in retrospect, I learned the wrong languages; French instead of Spanish and college math instead of carpenter math.
> mathematics
>>, he might not love it as much as he does, therefore not go intoI don't know very many people who love mathematics for its language. Its the Ideas that are gorgeous. Mathematicians create new languages as they become frustrated with existing languages not describing those ideas well enough. The ideas exisit without the descriptors, without books and studying. Its the ideas that pull people in and fascinate them. More often the language pushes people away.
> it.
You don't need to study music theory to play the piano, or study art history to paint - those are things that people who enjoy what they are doing may be drawn to study, though. Those topics can help answer question like "how do I portray emotion via this medium?" Similarly, you don't need to know the language of trignometry to build a stair case or a gabled roof, but in the process of building you may become inspired to learn that language, to enhance your process and performance.
> I think there is power in knowledge. The more I learn the more I realize IWhether or not knowledge is empowering has a lot to do with how you (generic you) conceptualize your own personal power. Having knowledge can make you feel powerful, but it can just as easily make you feel powerLess. People regularly push away knowledge because it undermines their sense of personal power. In my own life, I've found it helpful to move away from the idea that knowledge is tied to power to the idea that I find joy in learning and knowing and in knowing I have more to learn.
> have to learn.
> And we have found the more they know about mathematics, theThat's great! Especially if its something they are enjoying and feels empowering to them. I'm not trying to say you should prevent your kids from playing around with mathematics! My 8yo has specifically asked us to buy books on mathematics on occasion - its a lot of fun for her. But I don't ever ask her to do them, or do them in a particular way or order or timeframe. Its no more or less important than her comic books or stuffed animals. That sounds dismissive, but its not intended to be, the opposite, actually. Rather than "putting down" math, I'm upholding all her interests, because they are all valuable to my kid.
> more creatively they solve problems.
> I guess what I'm trying to say is that kids don't necessarily see all theNeither do adults. And WE have more baggage than they do. Sometimes kids can see possibilities to which adults are blind. Isn't that the wonderful part of childhood? The starry eyed looks that see right past all our grown-up obstacles? That's what I want to nurture in my kids, that sense of possibilities where others see limits. Climb the wall and look over it! Here, I'll help you.
> possibilities out there.
>> We don't want to close mathematical doors for the boysYou really can't know what doors you open and which you close. By choosing your current adventure, other doors are shut. They can't possibly be learning to play the cello with all that bicycling! By choosing to encourage math, you've ignored something else, tofu making, for example. Those may seem like silly examples, but you have No way of knowing what lies in the future.
> by choosing not to suggest it for them.
That's not to say you shouldn't strew new things and ideas and opportunites - strew away! Suggest and offer and encourage! But do those things with an eye on your kids' joy and fascination Right Now, not whatever they Might do ten, twenty years down the road. Beyond uncertainty about the future, when you focus on what your kids Might need and be down the road, you aren't seeing them clearly for Who They Are right now, and that's a loss. Childhood only happens in the moment.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
gruvystarchild
~~But how do you know you need it if you have never been exposed to it? If you don't know it exists, you don't think you need it!~~
You can't expose your kids to everything in the world. It's not even remotely possible. It's not even important. So you haven't been exposed to lots and lots of things and you don't think you need it...so what?
You and I and everyone in the whole world will be exposed to different things and different information and have different levels of desire. Why would math be any different than anything else they can or might be exposed to? Some things we'll miss, some things we'll run across and ignore, other things we'll pick up, some we'll come back to again and again.
You'll never expose your boys to everything they might love! YOu can't. That's not your job. For unschoolers, the point is to live well and do interesting things. The point is to find things and be curious...not to cover everything in the world because that's not even logical.
If your goal is to have them college ready, I'll be pointing away from that. College isn't a goal for us, living well is. I don't think having kids ready for college at a certain age is even helpful. You can learn higher math when you actually need it, not before and not miss a thing!
I think in worrying about "building in" certain things (as though there is some imaginary checklist) you might just miss the 5 or 10 or 20 other things that could have swirled up spontaneously.
My children know and learn so many things I could not have imagined exposing them to...parents aren't really the main source of exposure except when children are very young.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
You can't expose your kids to everything in the world. It's not even remotely possible. It's not even important. So you haven't been exposed to lots and lots of things and you don't think you need it...so what?
You and I and everyone in the whole world will be exposed to different things and different information and have different levels of desire. Why would math be any different than anything else they can or might be exposed to? Some things we'll miss, some things we'll run across and ignore, other things we'll pick up, some we'll come back to again and again.
You'll never expose your boys to everything they might love! YOu can't. That's not your job. For unschoolers, the point is to live well and do interesting things. The point is to find things and be curious...not to cover everything in the world because that's not even logical.
If your goal is to have them college ready, I'll be pointing away from that. College isn't a goal for us, living well is. I don't think having kids ready for college at a certain age is even helpful. You can learn higher math when you actually need it, not before and not miss a thing!
I think in worrying about "building in" certain things (as though there is some imaginary checklist) you might just miss the 5 or 10 or 20 other things that could have swirled up spontaneously.
My children know and learn so many things I could not have imagined exposing them to...parents aren't really the main source of exposure except when children are very young.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Jeff Sabo
One additional thought to Ren's note below - why are we even talking/thinking about college at all? If a child (or adult, for that matter), truly wants to pursue a passion that would "require" math to either get into or complete college, such as mechanical engineering or physical therapy, then I would imagine the parent would sit down with the child, review the requirements for entry, and work together to find a way to gain the necessary skills. In such cases, where the decision to go to college is child-led and a natural outcome of their passion, I think you'll see the kids do whatever it takes to get into the college and succeed.
However, a strict unschooling view would suggest a few things. First, we're trying to help our kids develop their own sense of what success means for them and how they should best pursue it. While success for many of us may mean college and a corporate job and a nice car and early retirement, we're trying to help our kids define it on their own terms and in their own ways. Therefore, kids should go to college if it is important to THEM, not because you feel it is important for them to do. Maybe they'll decide to go when they're 18; maybe they'll decide to go when they're 14; maybe they'll decide to go when they're 34; and maybe they'll decide to not go at all. As they grow up and experience a life of freedom and choice, they'll make the decisions that are right for them.
When I think about our kids and the study of specific "subjects" (or the absence of such study), I think of it like this: most people view their life through a telescope. Telescopes are great because you can see specific things far into the distance, which makes it really easy to plot out exactly how to get from here to there. Our kids, however, view life through the small end of a giant funnel. They may not be able to see as far or in as much focus, but they can see far more. What I try to avoid is subconsciously forcing my kids to turn their funnels into telescopes, narrowing their choices so they'll focus on the future. the future is THEIRS, not mine; I want them to have lived in a world of possibilities so that they can make informed, contextual choices based on experience.
________________________________
From: gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:17:35 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: roadschooling and MATH
~~But how do you know you need it if you have never been exposed to it? If you don't know it exists, you don't think you need it!~~
You can't expose your kids to everything in the world. It's not even remotely possible. It's not even important. So you haven't been exposed to lots and lots of things and you don't think you need it...so what?
You and I and everyone in the whole world will be exposed to different things and different information and have different levels of desire. Why would math be any different than anything else they can or might be exposed to? Some things we'll miss, some things we'll run across and ignore, other things we'll pick up, some we'll come back to again and again.
You'll never expose your boys to everything they might love! YOu can't. That's not your job. For unschoolers, the point is to live well and do interesting things. The point is to find things and be curious...not to cover everything in the world because that's not even logical.
If your goal is to have them college ready, I'll be pointing away from that. College isn't a goal for us, living well is. I don't think having kids ready for college at a certain age is even helpful. You can learn higher math when you actually need it, not before and not miss a thing!
I think in worrying about "building in" certain things (as though there is some imaginary checklist) you might just miss the 5 or 10 or 20 other things that could have swirled up spontaneously.
My children know and learn so many things I could not have imagined exposing them to...parents aren't really the main source of exposure except when children are very young.
Ren
radicalunschooling. blogspot. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
However, a strict unschooling view would suggest a few things. First, we're trying to help our kids develop their own sense of what success means for them and how they should best pursue it. While success for many of us may mean college and a corporate job and a nice car and early retirement, we're trying to help our kids define it on their own terms and in their own ways. Therefore, kids should go to college if it is important to THEM, not because you feel it is important for them to do. Maybe they'll decide to go when they're 18; maybe they'll decide to go when they're 14; maybe they'll decide to go when they're 34; and maybe they'll decide to not go at all. As they grow up and experience a life of freedom and choice, they'll make the decisions that are right for them.
When I think about our kids and the study of specific "subjects" (or the absence of such study), I think of it like this: most people view their life through a telescope. Telescopes are great because you can see specific things far into the distance, which makes it really easy to plot out exactly how to get from here to there. Our kids, however, view life through the small end of a giant funnel. They may not be able to see as far or in as much focus, but they can see far more. What I try to avoid is subconsciously forcing my kids to turn their funnels into telescopes, narrowing their choices so they'll focus on the future. the future is THEIRS, not mine; I want them to have lived in a world of possibilities so that they can make informed, contextual choices based on experience.
________________________________
From: gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:17:35 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: roadschooling and MATH
~~But how do you know you need it if you have never been exposed to it? If you don't know it exists, you don't think you need it!~~
You can't expose your kids to everything in the world. It's not even remotely possible. It's not even important. So you haven't been exposed to lots and lots of things and you don't think you need it...so what?
You and I and everyone in the whole world will be exposed to different things and different information and have different levels of desire. Why would math be any different than anything else they can or might be exposed to? Some things we'll miss, some things we'll run across and ignore, other things we'll pick up, some we'll come back to again and again.
You'll never expose your boys to everything they might love! YOu can't. That's not your job. For unschoolers, the point is to live well and do interesting things. The point is to find things and be curious...not to cover everything in the world because that's not even logical.
If your goal is to have them college ready, I'll be pointing away from that. College isn't a goal for us, living well is. I don't think having kids ready for college at a certain age is even helpful. You can learn higher math when you actually need it, not before and not miss a thing!
I think in worrying about "building in" certain things (as though there is some imaginary checklist) you might just miss the 5 or 10 or 20 other things that could have swirled up spontaneously.
My children know and learn so many things I could not have imagined exposing them to...parents aren't really the main source of exposure except when children are very young.
Ren
radicalunschooling. blogspot. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gruvystarchild
~~Therefore, kids should go to college if it is important to THEM, not because you feel it is important for them to do.~~
Digging deeper....
why would a child feel college is the best way to pursue what they want?
a)it's really the best way to get what they want
OR
b)the parents sent that message early on and in various ways (society certainly sends this message without parental assistance)
I have come to the point where I feel that for most people, college is one of the worst ways to learn a thing. For much less cost, people can travel, work with a mentor, study the materials themselves, volunteer, do all SORTS of things that are more varied and textured than what most colleges offer.
There are exceptions of course. Some local unschooling friends have a daughter in college full-time studying dance. She's living her dream there and loves it! Some people want/need very focused, formal studies of a thing and that's great for them. More and more I see that college is more costly than other focused methods of learning. An unecessary one too.
I would hope that unschoolers are looking at many options for learning what they want, not just falling into the trap of assuming college is the best way to get information/training.
If a person added up the cost of college and then thought about other ways of pursuing a thing, I bet they could think of a lot of options. Heck, just traveling and volunteering would help you learn more per dollar than what most colleges can give. Life is a journey and college seems to be pretty destination bound.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Digging deeper....
why would a child feel college is the best way to pursue what they want?
a)it's really the best way to get what they want
OR
b)the parents sent that message early on and in various ways (society certainly sends this message without parental assistance)
I have come to the point where I feel that for most people, college is one of the worst ways to learn a thing. For much less cost, people can travel, work with a mentor, study the materials themselves, volunteer, do all SORTS of things that are more varied and textured than what most colleges offer.
There are exceptions of course. Some local unschooling friends have a daughter in college full-time studying dance. She's living her dream there and loves it! Some people want/need very focused, formal studies of a thing and that's great for them. More and more I see that college is more costly than other focused methods of learning. An unecessary one too.
I would hope that unschoolers are looking at many options for learning what they want, not just falling into the trap of assuming college is the best way to get information/training.
If a person added up the cost of college and then thought about other ways of pursuing a thing, I bet they could think of a lot of options. Heck, just traveling and volunteering would help you learn more per dollar than what most colleges can give. Life is a journey and college seems to be pretty destination bound.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
gruvystarchild
On the topic...one of my favorite quotes of all time, from Pablo Picasso, nicely sums up my feelings about this:
"I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
"I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Pam Sorooshian
On 9/19/2009 7:54 PM, Jeff Sabo wrote:
in ASL started when she was young, she picked up quite a bit here and
there. She began asking me to find her some way to pursue her interest
more intensely and we found out that the community college has ASL
classes. Community college courses are a bargain here in California -
kids who are still under 18 often don't have to pay anything except some
small fees. So, for $15 she could have 18 weeks of twice per week ASL
class. A bargain and she LOVED it. She learned all about interpreting
and now wants to pursue that as a career.
In the past, a college degree was not required for certification, but
the certification requirements just changed this past January and an AA
degree is now required, In a few years, a BA degree will be a
requirement. There are alternatives for those who have worked in the
field for years, but not for people new to the field. It is possible to
find interpreting work without being certified, but Rosie wants to be
certified because of the kind of interpreting she wants to do PLUS she
looks at the courses she'd be able to take while getting a degree in
Deaf Studies and she thinks they look incredibly interesting! Also, she
will live in college housing with Deaf and hearing students - which she
is really looking forward to.
Before her interest in Deaf studies and interpreting started, she didn't
have plans to "go to college," but she was already taking some courses
at the community college just for fun - voice class, musical theater,
dance. Again, for $15 she could have 18 weeks of twice per week group
voice or dance classes - beats the heck out what it would cost at a
studio or for private lessons.
-pam
> Therefore, kids should go to college if it is important to THEM, not because you feel it is important for them to do.Exactly. Rosie, who is 18, wants to be an ASL interpreter. Her interest
in ASL started when she was young, she picked up quite a bit here and
there. She began asking me to find her some way to pursue her interest
more intensely and we found out that the community college has ASL
classes. Community college courses are a bargain here in California -
kids who are still under 18 often don't have to pay anything except some
small fees. So, for $15 she could have 18 weeks of twice per week ASL
class. A bargain and she LOVED it. She learned all about interpreting
and now wants to pursue that as a career.
In the past, a college degree was not required for certification, but
the certification requirements just changed this past January and an AA
degree is now required, In a few years, a BA degree will be a
requirement. There are alternatives for those who have worked in the
field for years, but not for people new to the field. It is possible to
find interpreting work without being certified, but Rosie wants to be
certified because of the kind of interpreting she wants to do PLUS she
looks at the courses she'd be able to take while getting a degree in
Deaf Studies and she thinks they look incredibly interesting! Also, she
will live in college housing with Deaf and hearing students - which she
is really looking forward to.
Before her interest in Deaf studies and interpreting started, she didn't
have plans to "go to college," but she was already taking some courses
at the community college just for fun - voice class, musical theater,
dance. Again, for $15 she could have 18 weeks of twice per week group
voice or dance classes - beats the heck out what it would cost at a
studio or for private lessons.
-pam
Pam Sorooshian
On 9/19/2009 8:34 PM, gruvystarchild wrote:
they offer all kinds of courses, not just traditional "college" courses.
My kids have used the community colleges pretty much like they used the
city recreation department classes. Roxana has taken private voice
lessons this summer - they cost $60 per hour. For that same $60 at the
community college. she has been getting 18 weeks, 6 hours per week, of
group lessons. The local karate studio charges $100 per month. The
community college offers karate twice a week - $40 for 18 weeks. And so on.
I never thought about preparing my kids for college - and I very very
much encouraged them to consider it as just one of many alternatives. I
teach college and I've repeated over and over that I don't think anybody
should go to college unless they have a very clear reason for being there.
people reading this). She's majoring in drama and it IS her dream -
she's SO excited!! She will be immersed in acting, singing, dancing,
performing and reading and analyzing plays - which is what she loves
more than anything!
Colleges can be pretty wonderful places - full of resources and people
with expert knowledge! But, they can be colossal wastes of time and
money, too!
-pam
> I have come to the point where I feel that for most people, college is one of the worst ways to learn a thing. For much less cost, people can travel, work with a mentor, study the materials themselves, volunteer, do all SORTS of things that are more varied and textured than what most colleges offer.Some states have community colleges that are very inexpensive. Plus,
>
they offer all kinds of courses, not just traditional "college" courses.
My kids have used the community colleges pretty much like they used the
city recreation department classes. Roxana has taken private voice
lessons this summer - they cost $60 per hour. For that same $60 at the
community college. she has been getting 18 weeks, 6 hours per week, of
group lessons. The local karate studio charges $100 per month. The
community college offers karate twice a week - $40 for 18 weeks. And so on.
I never thought about preparing my kids for college - and I very very
much encouraged them to consider it as just one of many alternatives. I
teach college and I've repeated over and over that I don't think anybody
should go to college unless they have a very clear reason for being there.
> There are exceptions of course. Some local unschooling friends have a daughter in college full-time studying dance. She's living her dream there and loves it! Some people want/need very focused, formal studies of a thing and that's great for them. More and more I see that college is more costly than other focused methods of learning. An unecessary one too.Roxana moves in to her college apartment on Monday (today for most
>
people reading this). She's majoring in drama and it IS her dream -
she's SO excited!! She will be immersed in acting, singing, dancing,
performing and reading and analyzing plays - which is what she loves
more than anything!
Colleges can be pretty wonderful places - full of resources and people
with expert knowledge! But, they can be colossal wastes of time and
money, too!
-pam
gruvystarchild
~~Some states have community colleges that are very inexpensive. Plus,
they offer all kinds of courses, not just traditional "college" courses.~~
Trevor was planning on doing that this fall...he's waiting because of a hang-up with in-state vs. out-of-state tuition fees. Interestingly, this child who has not had any formal lessons (other than what I tried to foist on him when we first started homeschooling) and plays a LOT of video games, did quite well on the entrance exams. We didn't help him prep at all (he didn't want to) and he got high enough scores in everything but math, to get into the regular college level classes. Math will require some basic classes because he hasn't learned formal notation even though he can think in mathematical terms.
He's very logical and analytical so I know it's mainly the notation that he's going to need help figuring out. So when he does finally go to this community college, he'll take some courses that get him where he wants to be...or he can study it in his own time if it matters to him. Either way, he's going to be doing it at 20 years of age, rather than 18 (the entrance hoopla). How could we have known when he was 5 or 12 or 16, just what would matter to him at 20? HE didn't know. Most of us don't.
I couldn't have predicted my own life needs even a couple years out! Things change. Right now the most overriding desire I have is for a professional camera. After 20 years of dabbling in photography I really, really want to go professional and I'm incredibly behind the curve because I refused to give up my film camera for so long. I don't know photoshop, I don't know a lot about digital cameras so I'm now at a huge disadvantage.
What if someone had MADE me go digital when I was still clinging to my film camera like a security blanket? ;) What if someone tried to hlep me learn a set of skills they KNEW I would need as a professional photographer? How would I have responded to that? Much better to recognize the need within ourselves and respond to it as it swirls up. Much better to follow a passion to it's own natural progression or death in whatever form that takes for us individually.
I'll learn all about digital photography right now, when *I* was ready to learn it for my own reasons and motivations. It will be more meaningful to me and my own learning path.
Trevor will learn whatever math he needs/wants for the next step of his life journey. He'll learn it right now when he actually needs it, not before it mattered. I couldn't possibly have known he'd be living in Hendersonville NC with a girlfriend he plans to marry, looking at college and other life choices when he was almost 20. I couldn't have done justice to trying to prepare him for things that didn't exist when he was 9 or 14 or 16....except to live in such a way as to make the most of our time together, to be curious with him, to bring happy memories into all of our lives. That's really all I needed to focus on at that time and we're still living that way today.
The best preparation for an enjoyable adult life is a happy childhood. That's it.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
they offer all kinds of courses, not just traditional "college" courses.~~
Trevor was planning on doing that this fall...he's waiting because of a hang-up with in-state vs. out-of-state tuition fees. Interestingly, this child who has not had any formal lessons (other than what I tried to foist on him when we first started homeschooling) and plays a LOT of video games, did quite well on the entrance exams. We didn't help him prep at all (he didn't want to) and he got high enough scores in everything but math, to get into the regular college level classes. Math will require some basic classes because he hasn't learned formal notation even though he can think in mathematical terms.
He's very logical and analytical so I know it's mainly the notation that he's going to need help figuring out. So when he does finally go to this community college, he'll take some courses that get him where he wants to be...or he can study it in his own time if it matters to him. Either way, he's going to be doing it at 20 years of age, rather than 18 (the entrance hoopla). How could we have known when he was 5 or 12 or 16, just what would matter to him at 20? HE didn't know. Most of us don't.
I couldn't have predicted my own life needs even a couple years out! Things change. Right now the most overriding desire I have is for a professional camera. After 20 years of dabbling in photography I really, really want to go professional and I'm incredibly behind the curve because I refused to give up my film camera for so long. I don't know photoshop, I don't know a lot about digital cameras so I'm now at a huge disadvantage.
What if someone had MADE me go digital when I was still clinging to my film camera like a security blanket? ;) What if someone tried to hlep me learn a set of skills they KNEW I would need as a professional photographer? How would I have responded to that? Much better to recognize the need within ourselves and respond to it as it swirls up. Much better to follow a passion to it's own natural progression or death in whatever form that takes for us individually.
I'll learn all about digital photography right now, when *I* was ready to learn it for my own reasons and motivations. It will be more meaningful to me and my own learning path.
Trevor will learn whatever math he needs/wants for the next step of his life journey. He'll learn it right now when he actually needs it, not before it mattered. I couldn't possibly have known he'd be living in Hendersonville NC with a girlfriend he plans to marry, looking at college and other life choices when he was almost 20. I couldn't have done justice to trying to prepare him for things that didn't exist when he was 9 or 14 or 16....except to live in such a way as to make the most of our time together, to be curious with him, to bring happy memories into all of our lives. That's really all I needed to focus on at that time and we're still living that way today.
The best preparation for an enjoyable adult life is a happy childhood. That's it.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
gruvystarchild
In my foggy, half-awake state last night, I blogged a few quick thoughts on this topic: http://radicalunschooling.blogspot.com/2009/09/learning-by-doing.html
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Pam Sorooshian
On 9/20/2009 12:23 AM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
California. She gets her key and will move in at noon - in about 3 hours
from now.
Sorry about that - I know it doesn't really matter, but wanted to be
accurate.
-pam
> Roxana moves in to her college apartment on Monday (today for mostGot my days wrong <G>. Today is SUNDAY here in sunny Southern
> people reading this).
California. She gets her key and will move in at noon - in about 3 hours
from now.
Sorry about that - I know it doesn't really matter, but wanted to be
accurate.
-pam
Jacque Valdez
Ren that was truly an inspirational thing you just wrote......that feeling
that you have towards unschooling and the way you and your family have lived
your life is why we are on this path today.....think I am going to print
that out and just hand it to people in our family when they ask LOL just
kidding but it just really shows the full circle and how you are still there
today and still believe in it....thanks to you and this group for inspiring
me everyday.Jacque
that you have towards unschooling and the way you and your family have lived
your life is why we are on this path today.....think I am going to print
that out and just hand it to people in our family when they ask LOL just
kidding but it just really shows the full circle and how you are still there
today and still believe in it....thanks to you and this group for inspiring
me everyday.Jacque
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 6:49 AM, gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...>wrote:
>
>
> ~~Some states have community colleges that are very inexpensive. Plus,
> they offer all kinds of courses, not just traditional "college" courses.~~
>
> Trevor was planning on doing that this fall...he's waiting because of a
> hang-up with in-state vs. out-of-state tuition fees. Interestingly, this
> child who has not had any formal lessons (other than what I tried to foist
> on him when we first started homeschooling) and plays a LOT of video games,
> did quite well on the entrance exams. We didn't help him prep at all (he
> didn't want to) and he got high enough scores in everything but math, to get
> into the regular college level classes. Math will require some basic classes
> because he hasn't learned formal notation even though he can think in
> mathematical terms.
>
> He's very logical and analytical so I know it's mainly the notation that
> he's going to need help figuring out. So when he does finally go to this
> community college, he'll take some courses that get him where he wants to
> be...or he can study it in his own time if it matters to him. Either way,
> he's going to be doing it at 20 years of age, rather than 18 (the entrance
> hoopla). How could we have known when he was 5 or 12 or 16, just what would
> matter to him at 20? HE didn't know. Most of us don't.
>
> I couldn't have predicted my own life needs even a couple years out! Things
> change. Right now the most overriding desire I have is for a professional
> camera. After 20 years of dabbling in photography I really, really want to
> go professional and I'm incredibly behind the curve because I refused to
> give up my film camera for so long. I don't know photoshop, I don't know a
> lot about digital cameras so I'm now at a huge disadvantage.
>
> What if someone had MADE me go digital when I was still clinging to my film
> camera like a security blanket? ;) What if someone tried to hlep me learn a
> set of skills they KNEW I would need as a professional photographer? How
> would I have responded to that? Much better to recognize the need within
> ourselves and respond to it as it swirls up. Much better to follow a passion
> to it's own natural progression or death in whatever form that takes for us
> individually.
>
> I'll learn all about digital photography right now, when *I* was ready to
> learn it for my own reasons and motivations. It will be more meaningful to
> me and my own learning path.
>
> Trevor will learn whatever math he needs/wants for the next step of his
> life journey. He'll learn it right now when he actually needs it, not before
> it mattered. I couldn't possibly have known he'd be living in Hendersonville
> NC with a girlfriend he plans to marry, looking at college and other life
> choices when he was almost 20. I couldn't have done justice to trying to
> prepare him for things that didn't exist when he was 9 or 14 or 16....except
> to live in such a way as to make the most of our time together, to be
> curious with him, to bring happy memories into all of our lives. That's
> really all I needed to focus on at that time and we're still living that way
> today.
>
> The best preparation for an enjoyable adult life is a happy childhood.
> That's it.
>
> Ren
> radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nancyrsv
--- In [email protected], "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>Great post! We really do learn by doing, eh?
> In my foggy, half-awake state last night, I blogged a few quick thoughts on this topic: http://radicalunschooling.blogspot.com/2009/09/learning-by-doing.html
>
> Ren
> radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>
diana jenner
SCARED ME!! My interpreting job at Oregon State starts on Monday ;)
whew, one more day of semi-retirement :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
whew, one more day of semi-retirement :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On 9/20/2009 12:23 AM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
> > Roxana moves in to her college apartment on Monday (today for most
> > people reading this).
>
> Got my days wrong <G>. Today is SUNDAY here in sunny Southern
> California. She gets her key and will move in at noon - in about 3 hours
> from now.
>
> Sorry about that - I know it doesn't really matter, but wanted to be
> accurate.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]