Roadschoolling mom checking in
nancyrsv
Just thought I would post and introduce myself and say hi. I've been reading your discussions for the past couple of days and have found them pretty enlightening!
I'm Nancy and we are "Roadschooling" our twin boys while we ride our bikes the length of the Americas. We left from Alaska 15 months ago and are now in Colombia. Along the way, the boys are mostly learning from Mother Nature and our journey itself. We have opted to carry math books for them since we didn't feel they would get what they needed in that regard from the journey.
Anyway, I most likely won't be all that active here as my internet time is usually quite limited, but I'll be browsing through your posts in my email. Keep up the fascinating discussions - you've already challenged my thinking in a number of ways!
I'm Nancy and we are "Roadschooling" our twin boys while we ride our bikes the length of the Americas. We left from Alaska 15 months ago and are now in Colombia. Along the way, the boys are mostly learning from Mother Nature and our journey itself. We have opted to carry math books for them since we didn't feel they would get what they needed in that regard from the journey.
Anyway, I most likely won't be all that active here as my internet time is usually quite limited, but I'll be browsing through your posts in my email. Keep up the fascinating discussions - you've already challenged my thinking in a number of ways!
nancyrsv
I suppose I should put this in since I've already had a couple ladies write and ask me... We are maintaining a website with lots of photos and videos of our trip, along with a blog of our experiences. Our boys are trying to break the world record as the youngest people to cycle the Pan American Highway, so this website is the documentation of our journey for Guinness. You can find us at www.familyonbikes.org
>
bmantovani
--- In [email protected], "nancyrsv" <sathren@...> wrote:
- learning about different currencies and exchange rates
- figuring out distances traveled and how much more to travel
- everyday shopping
In my opinion, that would already be plenty to learn more math than any curriculum you could carry.
Bea
>Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's interesting that you think cycling across two continents doesn't hold any opportunities to learn math... Off the top of my head I can think of three things that would have math value in what you do:
> We have opted to carry math books for them since we didn't feel they would get what they needed in that regard from the journey.
>
- learning about different currencies and exchange rates
- figuring out distances traveled and how much more to travel
- everyday shopping
In my opinion, that would already be plenty to learn more math than any curriculum you could carry.
Bea
gruvystarchild
~~
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's interesting that you think cycling across two continents doesn't hold any opportunities to learn math... ~~
I agree.
Math is no different than reading or any other skill we could pick up. It's just that parents often have more school damage and don't trust the natural "math instinct" that exists in humans. Many of us have terrific math baggage and therefore don't see how children will naturally pick it up, just like everything else.
I think if you hang out here at UnschoolingBasics for a while Nancy, maybe we can help relieve you of some unecessary baggage you're biking with. ;) lol
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's interesting that you think cycling across two continents doesn't hold any opportunities to learn math... ~~
I agree.
Math is no different than reading or any other skill we could pick up. It's just that parents often have more school damage and don't trust the natural "math instinct" that exists in humans. Many of us have terrific math baggage and therefore don't see how children will naturally pick it up, just like everything else.
I think if you hang out here at UnschoolingBasics for a while Nancy, maybe we can help relieve you of some unecessary baggage you're biking with. ;) lol
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
nancyrsv
I agree completely that the boys learn a ton of math on the road! It's been interesting listening to Davy tell me about distances:
"How far have we come, Mom?"
"22 km."
"And we have to go 55, you said?"
"Yep - the town is 55 km away from where we left this morning."
"So that means we still have 33 km to go. It also means we are 2/5 of the way there."
And he keeps on pedaling...
We have math built into every single day on the road and we are fully aware of it. However - one son has always LOVED his math workbooks! When we moved in the middle of his first grade year, his teacher let him choose what the class would do for his last afternoon at school. Did he choose free play? Nope. Read aloud? Nope. Art? uh uh. He had the class do math workbooks!
This is a kid who will sit down with his math workbook for hours. I brought home old math books from school and he sat there in the front room doing the problems.
He really wants to learn Algebra and Geometry and is thrilled that Daddy is teaching it to him. And, while he has a very good grasp of all those mathematical concepts in a practical sense, he wants them in the theoretical sense too. He is constantly talking about the theorem or that one.
To me, this is what education is all about - going where the kids want to go. My other son fights me for my computer so he can work on the story he is writing - he loves writing! We let them go there and help them however we can.
"How far have we come, Mom?"
"22 km."
"And we have to go 55, you said?"
"Yep - the town is 55 km away from where we left this morning."
"So that means we still have 33 km to go. It also means we are 2/5 of the way there."
And he keeps on pedaling...
We have math built into every single day on the road and we are fully aware of it. However - one son has always LOVED his math workbooks! When we moved in the middle of his first grade year, his teacher let him choose what the class would do for his last afternoon at school. Did he choose free play? Nope. Read aloud? Nope. Art? uh uh. He had the class do math workbooks!
This is a kid who will sit down with his math workbook for hours. I brought home old math books from school and he sat there in the front room doing the problems.
He really wants to learn Algebra and Geometry and is thrilled that Daddy is teaching it to him. And, while he has a very good grasp of all those mathematical concepts in a practical sense, he wants them in the theoretical sense too. He is constantly talking about the theorem or that one.
To me, this is what education is all about - going where the kids want to go. My other son fights me for my computer so he can work on the story he is writing - he loves writing! We let them go there and help them however we can.
JJ
Maybe this isn't unschooling "basics" -- but not all math along the unschooling journey to adulthood is necessarily the same.
Nancy's family might indeed be just rolling down the road with no interest or need for school math. But maybe her young teens are getting to the point now that they feel the need to get comfortable with math in a more formal way?
For us math in life and formal, written math operations proved to be two different questions. Fun at home with games and building or sewing projects, fun along the road trusting the math instinct, sure. There are maps to read, shopping to do, currency to convert in all sorts of adventures we've had and "math" was never a thought or care. Absolutely.
But the time may come when your older unschooler asks for help developing formal math skills as a means to some end. Passing standardized entrance exams for college and graduate school, for example, which for us turned out to be a whole different kind of unschooling question. Trust it can be done of course but it may take a little (school)work along the road.
There is a specific set of math conventions associated with scholastic goals, maybe like fluency in a new dialect or language, translating natural math thinking to spoken and written expressions in SchoolSpeak.
Helping a teenager who has done cooking and shopping fractions and percents but never drilled arithmetic or performed written algebraic equations, convert those rich unschooling adventures to specific preparation for a computerized algebra entrance exam to community college (for example) is a little different sort of parent question. Now what?
One option is the immersion approach, where a confident unschooler plunges unprepared into a formal school environment without a clue what anybody is saying at first, and can't even understand what's being asked at first, much less what the answers are. I know this works well for some people, with both language and math. It was a nightmare for my daughter and we had to keep open to other school resources to help her along HER road.
SO I like the idea of unschooling math as a long road-trip, not just as actual journey such as Nancy's family is taking, but as metaphor too. We can trust the natural math instinct all along our journey. If the time comes for formal school math, it may prove as easy for your unschooling teen as it was for Pam's daughters to immerse themselves in school math starting with basic community college courses, or you may be able to find similar resources outside of the classroom for them that work just as well, or maybe despite all the trust in the world and everything you can think of, that part of the road will just be bumpier with a few off-road detours, as it has been in our family. No matter what, unschooling is the only way to go! :)
**********
Nancy's family might indeed be just rolling down the road with no interest or need for school math. But maybe her young teens are getting to the point now that they feel the need to get comfortable with math in a more formal way?
For us math in life and formal, written math operations proved to be two different questions. Fun at home with games and building or sewing projects, fun along the road trusting the math instinct, sure. There are maps to read, shopping to do, currency to convert in all sorts of adventures we've had and "math" was never a thought or care. Absolutely.
But the time may come when your older unschooler asks for help developing formal math skills as a means to some end. Passing standardized entrance exams for college and graduate school, for example, which for us turned out to be a whole different kind of unschooling question. Trust it can be done of course but it may take a little (school)work along the road.
There is a specific set of math conventions associated with scholastic goals, maybe like fluency in a new dialect or language, translating natural math thinking to spoken and written expressions in SchoolSpeak.
Helping a teenager who has done cooking and shopping fractions and percents but never drilled arithmetic or performed written algebraic equations, convert those rich unschooling adventures to specific preparation for a computerized algebra entrance exam to community college (for example) is a little different sort of parent question. Now what?
One option is the immersion approach, where a confident unschooler plunges unprepared into a formal school environment without a clue what anybody is saying at first, and can't even understand what's being asked at first, much less what the answers are. I know this works well for some people, with both language and math. It was a nightmare for my daughter and we had to keep open to other school resources to help her along HER road.
SO I like the idea of unschooling math as a long road-trip, not just as actual journey such as Nancy's family is taking, but as metaphor too. We can trust the natural math instinct all along our journey. If the time comes for formal school math, it may prove as easy for your unschooling teen as it was for Pam's daughters to immerse themselves in school math starting with basic community college courses, or you may be able to find similar resources outside of the classroom for them that work just as well, or maybe despite all the trust in the world and everything you can think of, that part of the road will just be bumpier with a few off-road detours, as it has been in our family. No matter what, unschooling is the only way to go! :)
**********
> Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's interesting that you think cycling across two continents doesn't hold any opportunities to learn math... ~~
>
>
> I agree.
> Math is no different than reading or any other skill we could pick up. It's just that parents often have more school damage and don't trust the natural "math instinct" that exists in humans. Many of us have terrific math baggage and therefore don't see how children will naturally pick it up, just like everything else.
>
>
Kelly Lovejoy
Cameron (after years and years of deschooling) asked to specifically be more adept at math. I called Pam. She gave me books. He learned because he was ready.
But schools push math on kids who aren't ready. The kids learn to hate it because it makes no sense at the time. Plus, they have no real life uses for it (or so it seems).
By unschooling math (like everything else), children never learn to hate or be afraid of math.
Pam's repeated advice is, "Do no harm!" Forced math is very harmful to a child's potential delight in all things mathematical. Give them time to learn how fascinating numbers *are*, and they will never fear or hate them.
?~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: JJ <jrossedd@...>
SO I like the idea of unschooling math as a long road-trip, not just as actual
journey such as Nancy's family is taking, but as metaphor too. We can trust the
natural math instinct all along our journey. If the time comes for formal school
math, it may prove as easy for your unschooling teen as it was for Pam's
daughters to immerse themselves in school math starting with basic community
college courses, or you may be able to find similar resources outside of the
classroom for them that work just as well, or maybe despite all the trust in the
world and everything you can think of, that part of the road will just be
bumpier with a few off-road detours, as it has been in our family. No matter
what, unschooling is the only way to go! :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
But schools push math on kids who aren't ready. The kids learn to hate it because it makes no sense at the time. Plus, they have no real life uses for it (or so it seems).
By unschooling math (like everything else), children never learn to hate or be afraid of math.
Pam's repeated advice is, "Do no harm!" Forced math is very harmful to a child's potential delight in all things mathematical. Give them time to learn how fascinating numbers *are*, and they will never fear or hate them.
?~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: JJ <jrossedd@...>
SO I like the idea of unschooling math as a long road-trip, not just as actual
journey such as Nancy's family is taking, but as metaphor too. We can trust the
natural math instinct all along our journey. If the time comes for formal school
math, it may prove as easy for your unschooling teen as it was for Pam's
daughters to immerse themselves in school math starting with basic community
college courses, or you may be able to find similar resources outside of the
classroom for them that work just as well, or maybe despite all the trust in the
world and everything you can think of, that part of the road will just be
bumpier with a few off-road detours, as it has been in our family. No matter
what, unschooling is the only way to go! :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nancyrsv
I think you just hit it on the head, JJ! Both of our boys have a very good, solid grasp of "real life" mathematics. they can manipulate numbers with ease and can do complex problem solving in a variety of ways. They are great at explaining what they are thinking and the process they go through to get there.
But - the have both told us they want to go to college and want to be prepared for that. Yes, all their other experiences in life have prepared them in many ways - but they haven't given them the mathematical language they will want in college. We have found teaching the boys Algebra and Geometry (and probably Calculus at somepoint) has given them a whole 'nother way of solving problems.
We took the boys out of 3rd grade to do a bike trip around the USA and Mexico a few years ago and took the classic unschooling approach to math (as well as everything else). when the boys went back to school in 4th grade, the main thing commented on was math - they were lost. Yes, they knew more than the other kids and could figure out the problmes and all that - but htey didn't have the language of math that the other kids did and that bothered them.
But - the have both told us they want to go to college and want to be prepared for that. Yes, all their other experiences in life have prepared them in many ways - but they haven't given them the mathematical language they will want in college. We have found teaching the boys Algebra and Geometry (and probably Calculus at somepoint) has given them a whole 'nother way of solving problems.
We took the boys out of 3rd grade to do a bike trip around the USA and Mexico a few years ago and took the classic unschooling approach to math (as well as everything else). when the boys went back to school in 4th grade, the main thing commented on was math - they were lost. Yes, they knew more than the other kids and could figure out the problmes and all that - but htey didn't have the language of math that the other kids did and that bothered them.
nancyrsv
>That is so true! I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if Daryl ends up becoming a high-powered mathematician when he grows up! He has never been forced to do math at all - his biggest frustration in school was not being allowed to work ahead in the book!
> Pam's repeated advice is, "Do no harm!" Forced math is very harmful to a child's potential delight in all things mathematical. Give them time to learn how fascinating numbers *are*, and they will never fear or hate them.
>
>
Pam Sorooshian
Unschooled kids won't necessarily love math - but at least they won't
have so much math anxiety that they can't learn it and they'll have a
chance at feeling good and confident about it.
All three of my kids have ended up in college math classes - all started
with the lowest level math (probably what is taught in middle schools).
All chose to start there, rather than take placement tests that would
have put them at higher levels, because they figured there was going to
be a lot of notation and stuff that they hadn't picked up yet. There was
some - but it wasn't hard for them. Rosie is taking an algebra class
right now - has a lot of homework, but doesn't have any trouble
understanding the material at all. What surprises her is that the
classroom is full of other students who all went to school and were
taught all this same material several times over, but still can't
understand it. She says, "It seems like they have a mental block."
That's exactly what they DO have - their learning ability was damaged.
-pam
have so much math anxiety that they can't learn it and they'll have a
chance at feeling good and confident about it.
All three of my kids have ended up in college math classes - all started
with the lowest level math (probably what is taught in middle schools).
All chose to start there, rather than take placement tests that would
have put them at higher levels, because they figured there was going to
be a lot of notation and stuff that they hadn't picked up yet. There was
some - but it wasn't hard for them. Rosie is taking an algebra class
right now - has a lot of homework, but doesn't have any trouble
understanding the material at all. What surprises her is that the
classroom is full of other students who all went to school and were
taught all this same material several times over, but still can't
understand it. She says, "It seems like they have a mental block."
That's exactly what they DO have - their learning ability was damaged.
-pam
On 9/18/2009 7:37 AM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
> By unschooling math (like everything else), children never learn to hate or be afraid of math.
>
>
ckent9511
WAY COOL website. Man. I feel so inspired now. How cool.
And, I noticed some math going on with the way one of your sons figured pesos in to dollars and threw in some cost per hour and divided it all up and came up with the grand total of time spent playing games.Very cool. Sounds pretty good to me :)
Melissa
And, I noticed some math going on with the way one of your sons figured pesos in to dollars and threw in some cost per hour and divided it all up and came up with the grand total of time spent playing games.Very cool. Sounds pretty good to me :)
Melissa
--- In [email protected], "nancyrsv" <sathren@...> wrote:
>
> I suppose I should put this in since I've already had a couple ladies write and ask me... We are maintaining a website with lots of photos and videos of our trip, along with a blog of our experiences. Our boys are trying to break the world record as the youngest people to cycle the Pan American Highway, so this website is the documentation of our journey for Guinness. You can find us at www.familyonbikes.org
> >
>
nancyrsv
> WAY COOL website. Man. I feel so inspired now. How cool.Thanks! We have fun with the website. My boys use math all the time and very comfortable with it. We are doing the Algebra and Geometry because they want to study farther and will need it when they do. Besides, they really enjoy it!
> And, I noticed some math going on with the way one of your sons figured pesos in to dollars and threw in some cost per hour and divided it all up and came up with the grand total of time spent playing games.Very cool. Sounds pretty good to me :)
> Melissa
> >
>
gruvystarchild
~~But the time may come when your older unschooler asks for help developing formal math skills as a means to some end. ~~
A kid who wants/needs that for their own reasons is different than a parent worrying that they won't get math from just living (which is what it sounded like at first).
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
A kid who wants/needs that for their own reasons is different than a parent worrying that they won't get math from just living (which is what it sounded like at first).
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com