Daughter's weight gain
observeandlearn
Hello all -- an issue that's in my and my partner's mind is my daughter's weight gain since food restrictions were lifted. Just to give you a little history, prior to our children going 'free range' I had a pretty tight belt on all processed foods. As of Easter this year, I let go and allow them to eat what they want, when they want. Meals and platters are still served as usual, but they now have access to all sorts of lollies, soft drinks, chips, crackers, etc, that were simply not bought in the recent past, or unlimited.
Mia is 7 and has had my values/understanding on food really pushed on her in the past. I worry that this past preaching has done long term damage. I understand that there is a strong element of 'defooding' going on here. She has a good balance; she eats her meals as well as snacks continuously on the sweets, etc. But the weight gain is fairly significant, and my fear of her continuing to expand is always in the back of my mind.
She is aware of her weight gain, as her clothes suddenly do not fit her, and she is now wearing sizes that are up to 3 times larger than her ideal! This is the same girl that used to wear clothes 3 times smaller than her ideal . . . obviously, there as an element of 'growth spurt' going on here too. Would love to hear others opinions and/or similar life experiences. I just know there is some piece of the puzzle here that I'm not seeing/perceiving. I do drop comments here and there implying her weight gain is related to her intake of processed foods. Should I not?
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Kathryn D
Mia is 7 and has had my values/understanding on food really pushed on her in the past. I worry that this past preaching has done long term damage. I understand that there is a strong element of 'defooding' going on here. She has a good balance; she eats her meals as well as snacks continuously on the sweets, etc. But the weight gain is fairly significant, and my fear of her continuing to expand is always in the back of my mind.
She is aware of her weight gain, as her clothes suddenly do not fit her, and she is now wearing sizes that are up to 3 times larger than her ideal! This is the same girl that used to wear clothes 3 times smaller than her ideal . . . obviously, there as an element of 'growth spurt' going on here too. Would love to hear others opinions and/or similar life experiences. I just know there is some piece of the puzzle here that I'm not seeing/perceiving. I do drop comments here and there implying her weight gain is related to her intake of processed foods. Should I not?
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Kathryn D
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Stop making comments NOW! Nothing worse than eating and feeling guilty and ashamed of it.
If eating processed foods and sweets would make you fat than my husband and kids would be fat, specially my super athletic, in shape husband.
In our home I am the one who eats vegetables out of our garden all they long, I also love fruits and can live on them.
I am fat. My husband lives on processed stuff, he has two healthy meals a day, and tanks up on chocolate, candies, oreos, cookies, Swiss rolls , etc all day long.
The main difference is that I grew up feeling guilty and worrying that I was going to be fat ( and I was not fat at all growing up).
My parents said things just like you do your daughter.
It is very damaging.
Are you and your partner in a healthy fit weight?
Are you an active family?
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If eating processed foods and sweets would make you fat than my husband and kids would be fat, specially my super athletic, in shape husband.
In our home I am the one who eats vegetables out of our garden all they long, I also love fruits and can live on them.
I am fat. My husband lives on processed stuff, he has two healthy meals a day, and tanks up on chocolate, candies, oreos, cookies, Swiss rolls , etc all day long.
The main difference is that I grew up feeling guilty and worrying that I was going to be fat ( and I was not fat at all growing up).
My parents said things just like you do your daughter.
It is very damaging.
Are you and your partner in a healthy fit weight?
Are you an active family?
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
It is an odd To me that a 7 year old would have an ideal size.
I use to control food as well. I am a 'health nut' and shared many
eating ideas with Dr. Sears. I was a nice controller, sweetly keeping
the 'bad' stuff from my children out of love. It didn't work. They
didn't feel loved they felt controlled, rightly so.
I started to become more flexible when I learned about RU. My dd then
8-9 did gain a bit a weight. It wasn't a big deal. It's her body and I
wanted her to be comfortable in her body. I was cautious not to say
anything that might damage her Self. Being heavy isn't bad. It is also
likely a swing in the pendulum. As much as SHE felt controlled, she
will swing the other way. The more you give it energy, fear, and
attention the longer she'll stay there.
I don't keep unlimited sweets in the house but I DO purchase whatever
my kids want. And I will also not purchase things they ask to keep
away. Recently at the store Zola 2 asked for cheetos, Easy6 asked for
granola, and Malila12 asked for soda. That's what I got in addition to
our meals. There was a time when they asked for more candies and
sweets. But it has balanced out. They ask for specific cheeses, fruits
and veggies as well. They surely don't eat a Dr. Sears approved diet
but they are healthy and happy.
M12 asked to keep soda out of the house for a few months. She loves
soda. She felt like she was consuming too much. It was making her feel
bad but she needed help. She is my child that was controlled the
longest. The other two were never controlled and it is much different.
They are more self regulated. I think it took about 2 years for her to
feel like she had autonomy. And part of that was waxing and waning on
my side and part is her personality.
Read a bunch of blogs on food and RU. Sandra Dodd and Joyce Fetteroll
have a wealth of information on their sites.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 13, 2009, at 1:31 AM, "observeandlearn" <kathryndubay@...
I use to control food as well. I am a 'health nut' and shared many
eating ideas with Dr. Sears. I was a nice controller, sweetly keeping
the 'bad' stuff from my children out of love. It didn't work. They
didn't feel loved they felt controlled, rightly so.
I started to become more flexible when I learned about RU. My dd then
8-9 did gain a bit a weight. It wasn't a big deal. It's her body and I
wanted her to be comfortable in her body. I was cautious not to say
anything that might damage her Self. Being heavy isn't bad. It is also
likely a swing in the pendulum. As much as SHE felt controlled, she
will swing the other way. The more you give it energy, fear, and
attention the longer she'll stay there.
I don't keep unlimited sweets in the house but I DO purchase whatever
my kids want. And I will also not purchase things they ask to keep
away. Recently at the store Zola 2 asked for cheetos, Easy6 asked for
granola, and Malila12 asked for soda. That's what I got in addition to
our meals. There was a time when they asked for more candies and
sweets. But it has balanced out. They ask for specific cheeses, fruits
and veggies as well. They surely don't eat a Dr. Sears approved diet
but they are healthy and happy.
M12 asked to keep soda out of the house for a few months. She loves
soda. She felt like she was consuming too much. It was making her feel
bad but she needed help. She is my child that was controlled the
longest. The other two were never controlled and it is much different.
They are more self regulated. I think it took about 2 years for her to
feel like she had autonomy. And part of that was waxing and waning on
my side and part is her personality.
Read a bunch of blogs on food and RU. Sandra Dodd and Joyce Fetteroll
have a wealth of information on their sites.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 13, 2009, at 1:31 AM, "observeandlearn" <kathryndubay@...
> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Hello all -- an issue that's in my and my partner's mind is my
> daughter's weight gain since food restrictions were lifted. Just to
> give you a little history, prior to our children going 'free range'
> I had a pretty tight belt on all processed foods. As of Easter this
> year, I let go and allow them to eat what they want, when they want.
> Meals and platters are still served as usual, but they now have
> access to all sorts of lollies, soft drinks, chips, crackers, etc,
> that were simply not bought in the recent past, or unlimited.
>
> Mia is 7 and has had my values/understanding on food really pushed
> on her in the past. I worry that this past preaching has done long
> term damage. I understand that there is a strong element of
> 'defooding' going on here. She has a good balance; she eats her
> meals as well as snacks continuously on the sweets, etc. But the
> weight gain is fairly significant, and my fear of her continuing to
> expand is always in the back of my mind.
>
> She is aware of her weight gain, as her clothes suddenly do not fit
> her, and she is now wearing sizes that are up to 3 times larger than
> her ideal! This is the same girl that used to wear clothes 3 times
> smaller than her ideal . . . obviously, there as an element of
> 'growth spurt' going on here too. Would love to hear others opinions
> and/or similar life experiences. I just know there is some piece of
> the puzzle here that I'm not seeing/perceiving. I do drop comments
> here and there implying her weight gain is related to her intake of
> processed foods. Should I not?
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice,
>
> Kathryn D
>
>
Elizabeth
I have been guilty making some comments too and you* are right-*growing
up nothing made me more insecure than
my grandmother's comments about my weight.
She still does it! Shame on me.
I am committing myself to having more healthy snack options in the house
and finding more physical activities for us.
Elizabeth
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
up nothing made me more insecure than
my grandmother's comments about my weight.
She still does it! Shame on me.
I am committing myself to having more healthy snack options in the house
and finding more physical activities for us.
Elizabeth
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
>
>
> Stop making comments NOW! Nothing worse than eating and feeling guilty
> and ashamed of it.
> If eating processed foods and sweets would make you fat than my
> husband and kids would be fat, specially my super athletic, in shape
> husband.
> In our home I am the one who eats vegetables out of our garden all
> they long, I also love fruits and can live on them.
> I am fat. My husband lives on processed stuff, he has two healthy
> meals a day, and tanks up on chocolate, candies, oreos, cookies, Swiss
> rolls , etc all day long.
> The main difference is that I grew up feeling guilty and worrying that
> I was going to be fat ( and I was not fat at all growing up).
> My parents said things just like you do your daughter.
> It is very damaging.
> Are you and your partner in a healthy fit weight?
> Are you an active family?
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky
> http://polykow.blogspot.com/ <http://polykow.blogspot.com/>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth <elizabeth.simon@...>
I have been guilty making some comments too and you* are right-*growing
up nothing made me more insecure than
my grandmother's comments about my weight.
She still does it! Shame on me.
I am committing myself to having more healthy snack options in the house
and finding more physical activities for us.
-=-=-=-=-
That *last* part is really, really important: the "for us" part.
Modeling good eating choices. And explain why. Not every time. But certainly if they ask.
Not in lecturing way. In an informational way.
We've had a humongous bowl of M&Ms in our den for years now. No Lovejoys eat M&Ms any more. <g>
Guests do though! A lot! <g> I also have a bowl of cashews or almonds in the *other* bowl.
It took a couple of years for us to stop eating M&Ms, but the infatuation is gone. We *all*
seem to choose the nuts now.
I can use the M&Ms as a barometer though. One handful---I don't concern myself. Two---maybe.
But three, and I ask whether the child is hungry. Inevitably he *is* (or *I* am! <g>). So I can
offer a better alternative. It's always met with gratitude because he *was* hungry, but the M&M
bowl was handy. I can whip up a quesadilla or a monkey platter a whole lot more quickly than they
can.
Seemingly apparent weight gain and loss is sooo common in children as they grow out and then up. My mother was whining
about how big Duncan was getting. But I knew it was just the stage before puberty when he was storing body fat before
shooting UP. He still has a little baby fat, but he's gotten sooo tall lately (suddenly taller than I am!) that, if he *hadn't*
gained that weight a year or three ago, he would have looked like a scrawny scarecrow this past year!
Patience and a helpful, healthful attitude about food is the best course. She'll find what's best for her in her own time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Elizabeth <elizabeth.simon@...>
I have been guilty making some comments too and you* are right-*growing
up nothing made me more insecure than
my grandmother's comments about my weight.
She still does it! Shame on me.
I am committing myself to having more healthy snack options in the house
and finding more physical activities for us.
-=-=-=-=-
That *last* part is really, really important: the "for us" part.
Modeling good eating choices. And explain why. Not every time. But certainly if they ask.
Not in lecturing way. In an informational way.
We've had a humongous bowl of M&Ms in our den for years now. No Lovejoys eat M&Ms any more. <g>
Guests do though! A lot! <g> I also have a bowl of cashews or almonds in the *other* bowl.
It took a couple of years for us to stop eating M&Ms, but the infatuation is gone. We *all*
seem to choose the nuts now.
I can use the M&Ms as a barometer though. One handful---I don't concern myself. Two---maybe.
But three, and I ask whether the child is hungry. Inevitably he *is* (or *I* am! <g>). So I can
offer a better alternative. It's always met with gratitude because he *was* hungry, but the M&M
bowl was handy. I can whip up a quesadilla or a monkey platter a whole lot more quickly than they
can.
Seemingly apparent weight gain and loss is sooo common in children as they grow out and then up. My mother was whining
about how big Duncan was getting. But I knew it was just the stage before puberty when he was storing body fat before
shooting UP. He still has a little baby fat, but he's gotten sooo tall lately (suddenly taller than I am!) that, if he *hadn't*
gained that weight a year or three ago, he would have looked like a scrawny scarecrow this past year!
Patience and a helpful, healthful attitude about food is the best course. She'll find what's best for her in her own time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Do NOT drop comments about her weight. You can talk about making healthy
food choices. You can talk about excercise and healthy lifestyle choices but
you cannot make comments about her weight or what she is eating.
We lived with my mother in law for 4 months a year or so ago. That woman
constantly made comments about what we ate and when we ate it. I became so
conscious of what I ate that I dreaded dinner time. I dreaded eating at all
because it was inevitable that she would say something. She did it to my
kids too. I would try to feed the kids out of her view so they could eat on
their terms rather than on hers. It was terrible. My husband grew up with
that and is now overweight and has food issues. I didn't grow up with it to
that extent but there were definitely food issues in my house growing up.
So what if her clothes are getting small. That happens to kids. I think
somebody else mentioned that kids sometimes fatten up just before hitting a
growth spurt.
If it doesn't bother her, then it shouldn't bother you.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
food choices. You can talk about excercise and healthy lifestyle choices but
you cannot make comments about her weight or what she is eating.
We lived with my mother in law for 4 months a year or so ago. That woman
constantly made comments about what we ate and when we ate it. I became so
conscious of what I ate that I dreaded dinner time. I dreaded eating at all
because it was inevitable that she would say something. She did it to my
kids too. I would try to feed the kids out of her view so they could eat on
their terms rather than on hers. It was terrible. My husband grew up with
that and is now overweight and has food issues. I didn't grow up with it to
that extent but there were definitely food issues in my house growing up.
So what if her clothes are getting small. That happens to kids. I think
somebody else mentioned that kids sometimes fatten up just before hitting a
growth spurt.
If it doesn't bother her, then it shouldn't bother you.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
There you go, you've got all the evidence there. If you control something, releasing controls doesn't get you balance, it gets you a period when they are absolutely bingeing on the controlled good. It's why my neice is so very excited at the idea of being 18 and getting to drink. Much of what she talks about is what and how much she's gonna drink when she's of age (it's 18 in the UK).
Simon and Linnaea have not been restricted ever.Today Simon grabbed a bag of Doritos cool ranch chips and walked to the computer. I asked if he'd like a tuna sandwich and he said yes and put the chips back. He was hungry and went for an easy option. Having a choice of something that took a moment of work and a bit of awareness of what was in the pantry changed what he wanted.
Give her time. Girls are particularly sensitive to food controls. There's good data on girls' responses to parental food restrictions that suggests that they have an extreme response to those controls. Thus girls are more likely to either binge on controlled food or move toward anorexia or bulemia. Do what you can to see it as a gift that you are giving your daughter. When she's 18 she won't be focused on what she couldn't have a child. She'll have the time to focus on other things and other parts of her life. And she'll be more likely to eat when she's hungry and stop when she's full.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: observeandlearn <kathryndubay@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 6:31:48 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Daughter's weight gain
Hello all -- an issue that's in my and my partner's mind is my daughter's weight gain since food restrictions were lifted. Just to give you a little history, prior to our children going 'free range' I had a pretty tight belt on all processed foods. As of Easter this year, I let go and allow them to eat what they want, when they want. Meals and platters are still served as usual, but they now have access to all sorts of lollies, soft drinks, chips, crackers, etc, that were simply not bought in the recent past, or unlimited.
Mia is 7 and has had my values/understanding on food really pushed on her in the past. I worry that this past preaching has done long term damage. I understand that there is a strong element of 'defooding' going on here. She has a good balance; she eats her meals as well as snacks continuously on the sweets, etc. But the weight gain is fairly significant, and my fear of her continuing to expand is always in the back of my mind.
She is aware of her weight gain, as her clothes suddenly do not fit her, and she is now wearing sizes that are up to 3 times larger than her ideal! This is the same girl that used to wear clothes 3 times smaller than her ideal . . . obviously, there as an element of 'growth spurt' going on here too. Would love to hear others opinions and/or similar life experiences. I just know there is some piece of the puzzle here that I'm not seeing/perceiving. I do drop comments here and there implying her weight gain is related to her intake of processed foods. Should I not?
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Kathryn D
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Simon and Linnaea have not been restricted ever.Today Simon grabbed a bag of Doritos cool ranch chips and walked to the computer. I asked if he'd like a tuna sandwich and he said yes and put the chips back. He was hungry and went for an easy option. Having a choice of something that took a moment of work and a bit of awareness of what was in the pantry changed what he wanted.
Give her time. Girls are particularly sensitive to food controls. There's good data on girls' responses to parental food restrictions that suggests that they have an extreme response to those controls. Thus girls are more likely to either binge on controlled food or move toward anorexia or bulemia. Do what you can to see it as a gift that you are giving your daughter. When she's 18 she won't be focused on what she couldn't have a child. She'll have the time to focus on other things and other parts of her life. And she'll be more likely to eat when she's hungry and stop when she's full.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: observeandlearn <kathryndubay@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 6:31:48 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Daughter's weight gain
Hello all -- an issue that's in my and my partner's mind is my daughter's weight gain since food restrictions were lifted. Just to give you a little history, prior to our children going 'free range' I had a pretty tight belt on all processed foods. As of Easter this year, I let go and allow them to eat what they want, when they want. Meals and platters are still served as usual, but they now have access to all sorts of lollies, soft drinks, chips, crackers, etc, that were simply not bought in the recent past, or unlimited.
Mia is 7 and has had my values/understanding on food really pushed on her in the past. I worry that this past preaching has done long term damage. I understand that there is a strong element of 'defooding' going on here. She has a good balance; she eats her meals as well as snacks continuously on the sweets, etc. But the weight gain is fairly significant, and my fear of her continuing to expand is always in the back of my mind.
She is aware of her weight gain, as her clothes suddenly do not fit her, and she is now wearing sizes that are up to 3 times larger than her ideal! This is the same girl that used to wear clothes 3 times smaller than her ideal . . . obviously, there as an element of 'growth spurt' going on here too. Would love to hear others opinions and/or similar life experiences. I just know there is some piece of the puzzle here that I'm not seeing/perceiving. I do drop comments here and there implying her weight gain is related to her intake of processed foods. Should I not?
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Kathryn D
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rikisgirl
We are struggling with this a bit here as well only because my twin daughters have noticed they are gaining weight...it started after we pulled them off of the ADHD meds the school said they HAD to take. They are not over weight a ton but are big girls and notice that they are larger than their sisters I too think they are storing up for puberty and a growth spurt even though they are only 10. Its hard to not put societies labels on our children or ourselves for that matter. Good luck and hope that together as a family you can let go of this and enjoy your lives together....
Jacque
Jacque
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
"Do NOT drop comments about her weight"
-=-=-=-=-
Did you mean "Drop the comments"?Not "Do Not" right???
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-=-=-=-
Did you mean "Drop the comments"?Not "Do Not" right???
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenna Robertson
I have 3 daughters ages 8 1/2, just turned 10 and almost 13.
We are a vegetarian family and I try to explain to my girls why we eat healthy and what our bodies need to grow and fight off germ, etc. without putting an emphasis on weight. I come from a very controlling family and we recently visited my parents. My father thinks every woman should be thin and made that very clear when my sister and I were growing up AND he thinks you should eat everything on your plate! While visiting my husband and I gained weight as we would secretly eat the foods our daughters didn't like (one of them is very selective in the foods she likes and how they are prepared) or when their servings were too big and they didn't want to finish them.
Having tried to avoid processed foods as much as possible and having a strong dislike for all the holidays that seem to have become centered around selling as much cheep crappy candy as possible, it has been hard for me to let go controlling food AND not making comments about crappy candy. (my kids have been know to snatch a candy wrapper out of my hand and yell, "NO! Don't read the ingredients!!")
When it comes to weight gain, my girls were very thin up until around the age of 8. My middle daughter is still quite thin at 10, the youngest is just starting to gain weight. By the time my eldest was 9 I started to worry about if she was gaining too much, due mostly to my family background. However, I kept telling her and myself that it was normal to gain weight because you needed that extra food so you could grow. And it's true. I would watch her fill out and her pants would get too tight, then she would shoot up a few inches and thin they'd fit again, though she'll probably never return to extremely thin, I don't think that's going to be her natural body shape as an adult. As she got older we would talk about health issues related to being extremely over weight or food choices.
When she hit 12 she "needed" chips. We rarely had chips in the house, but I started buying them and she'd eat corn chips and salsa for breakfast, potato chips for snacks. To help balance out her diet we started buying better things to dip chips in. Guacamole, humus, fresh salsa, refried beans....
Now my girls have the great joy of being old enough to walk to the corner gas station a few blocks away. They buy what I would consider the worst candy (I'm a dark chocolate person myself) and that is still something I struggle w/. However, we live on a very limited budget and what we've agreed upon is monthly spending money. Instead of me buying the candy, they each get an amount of money each month to save and spend as they wish. If they spend it on candy that's fine. On the bright side, they walk to the store to buy candy :).
Consider figuring out what your daughter's favorite foods are and try to always keep them handy. I have a daughter that will choose fruit over almost anything else. And we can't live w/out chips and salsa :). I think the monkey platters are great because they tend to eat all different things and you can get an idea of what they like, and they may find new things they like.
Also, if kids are happily engaged in other activities they tend to eat less. That can be hard if your kid watches movies a lot :) but I make big batches of popcorn and slice up fruit which tends to meet their needs.
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We are a vegetarian family and I try to explain to my girls why we eat healthy and what our bodies need to grow and fight off germ, etc. without putting an emphasis on weight. I come from a very controlling family and we recently visited my parents. My father thinks every woman should be thin and made that very clear when my sister and I were growing up AND he thinks you should eat everything on your plate! While visiting my husband and I gained weight as we would secretly eat the foods our daughters didn't like (one of them is very selective in the foods she likes and how they are prepared) or when their servings were too big and they didn't want to finish them.
Having tried to avoid processed foods as much as possible and having a strong dislike for all the holidays that seem to have become centered around selling as much cheep crappy candy as possible, it has been hard for me to let go controlling food AND not making comments about crappy candy. (my kids have been know to snatch a candy wrapper out of my hand and yell, "NO! Don't read the ingredients!!")
When it comes to weight gain, my girls were very thin up until around the age of 8. My middle daughter is still quite thin at 10, the youngest is just starting to gain weight. By the time my eldest was 9 I started to worry about if she was gaining too much, due mostly to my family background. However, I kept telling her and myself that it was normal to gain weight because you needed that extra food so you could grow. And it's true. I would watch her fill out and her pants would get too tight, then she would shoot up a few inches and thin they'd fit again, though she'll probably never return to extremely thin, I don't think that's going to be her natural body shape as an adult. As she got older we would talk about health issues related to being extremely over weight or food choices.
When she hit 12 she "needed" chips. We rarely had chips in the house, but I started buying them and she'd eat corn chips and salsa for breakfast, potato chips for snacks. To help balance out her diet we started buying better things to dip chips in. Guacamole, humus, fresh salsa, refried beans....
Now my girls have the great joy of being old enough to walk to the corner gas station a few blocks away. They buy what I would consider the worst candy (I'm a dark chocolate person myself) and that is still something I struggle w/. However, we live on a very limited budget and what we've agreed upon is monthly spending money. Instead of me buying the candy, they each get an amount of money each month to save and spend as they wish. If they spend it on candy that's fine. On the bright side, they walk to the store to buy candy :).
Consider figuring out what your daughter's favorite foods are and try to always keep them handy. I have a daughter that will choose fruit over almost anything else. And we can't live w/out chips and salsa :). I think the monkey platters are great because they tend to eat all different things and you can get an idea of what they like, and they may find new things they like.
Also, if kids are happily engaged in other activities they tend to eat less. That can be hard if your kid watches movies a lot :) but I make big batches of popcorn and slice up fruit which tends to meet their needs.
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Paul & Camille
Ha Alex,
I took the comment as meaning Do NOT make/drop any comments about her weight.... Meaning DONT DO IT :) Funny how one thing can mean totally different things to different people :)
Camille
I took the comment as meaning Do NOT make/drop any comments about her weight.... Meaning DONT DO IT :) Funny how one thing can mean totally different things to different people :)
Camille
----- Original Message -----
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Daughter's weight gain
"Do NOT drop comments about her weight"
-=-=-=-=-
Did you mean "Drop the comments"?Not "Do Not" right???
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
Alex, I read it as dropping comments as in say little things about her
weight.
She was saying, do NOT drop (say, hint, reffer) comments about her
weight.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 13, 2009, at 4:20 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...
weight.
She was saying, do NOT drop (say, hint, reffer) comments about her
weight.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 13, 2009, at 4:20 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...
> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> "Do NOT drop comments about her weight"
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> Did you mean "Drop the comments"?Not "Do Not" right???
>
> Alex Polikowsky
> http://polykow.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I just wanted to clarify for everyone cause it was a little confusing! ;)
It looked like we were on the same page but clarity is important!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It looked like we were on the same page but clarity is important!
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Food is food. Crappy candy is a horrible term to carry around in your head. It is awful to condemn your child's food choices to crap whenever you see them eating something you wouldn't choose for them or for yourself. By giving them the right to choose you are freeing them to assess when and what they are hungry for at any given point. By limiting the food in your house to the food you see as acceptable you are creating a culture of "treat food" that will increase the likelihood that they focus on those foods to a greater degree than that they focus on the foods that you direct them towards. Pam Sorooshian has an essay on marginal utility that explains in greater detail what I'm trying to explain in a couple of sentences: http://www.sandradodd.com/t/economics.html.
I'm sure that you mean well. I'm sure that you see your actions as generous when compared with your father's. But your daughters are still so focused on candy that they will take their allowance and walk to the gas station and spend it all there. They are so aware of your negative feelings that they shout at you when you read a candy wrapper. You are passing on food focuses and phobias similar to the ones your father passed to you.
Living within a budget doesn't mean excluding foods that are appealing. I make candy. I make mints and sherbet (like lik-m-aid/fun dip powder) and toffee and fudge and other hard candies. There are lots of recipes on-line. Cookies and cakes and brownies are easy and cheap to make. If you have them in your home it will free your daughters up to use the pocket money you give them for other things and it will free them up to not see the candy from the gas station as the best thing to buy with the little cash they have.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 9:40:24 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Daughter's weight gain
I have 3 daughters ages 8 1/2, just turned 10 and almost 13.
We are a vegetarian family and I try to explain to my girls why we eat healthy and what our bodies need to grow and fight off germ, etc. without putting an emphasis on weight. I come from a very controlling family and we recently visited my parents. My father thinks every woman should be thin and made that very clear when my sister and I were growing up AND he thinks you should eat everything on your plate! While visiting my husband and I gained weight as we would secretly eat the foods our daughters didn't like (one of them is very selective in the foods she likes and how they are prepared) or when their servings were too big and they didn't want to finish them.
Having tried to avoid processed foods as much as possible and having a strong dislike for all the holidays that seem to have become centered around selling as much cheep crappy candy as possible, it has been hard for me to let go controlling food AND not making comments about crappy candy. (my kids have been know to snatch a candy wrapper out of my hand and yell, "NO! Don't read the ingredients!!")
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm sure that you mean well. I'm sure that you see your actions as generous when compared with your father's. But your daughters are still so focused on candy that they will take their allowance and walk to the gas station and spend it all there. They are so aware of your negative feelings that they shout at you when you read a candy wrapper. You are passing on food focuses and phobias similar to the ones your father passed to you.
Living within a budget doesn't mean excluding foods that are appealing. I make candy. I make mints and sherbet (like lik-m-aid/fun dip powder) and toffee and fudge and other hard candies. There are lots of recipes on-line. Cookies and cakes and brownies are easy and cheap to make. If you have them in your home it will free your daughters up to use the pocket money you give them for other things and it will free them up to not see the candy from the gas station as the best thing to buy with the little cash they have.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 9:40:24 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Daughter's weight gain
I have 3 daughters ages 8 1/2, just turned 10 and almost 13.
We are a vegetarian family and I try to explain to my girls why we eat healthy and what our bodies need to grow and fight off germ, etc. without putting an emphasis on weight. I come from a very controlling family and we recently visited my parents. My father thinks every woman should be thin and made that very clear when my sister and I were growing up AND he thinks you should eat everything on your plate! While visiting my husband and I gained weight as we would secretly eat the foods our daughters didn't like (one of them is very selective in the foods she likes and how they are prepared) or when their servings were too big and they didn't want to finish them.
Having tried to avoid processed foods as much as possible and having a strong dislike for all the holidays that seem to have become centered around selling as much cheep crappy candy as possible, it has been hard for me to let go controlling food AND not making comments about crappy candy. (my kids have been know to snatch a candy wrapper out of my hand and yell, "NO! Don't read the ingredients!!")
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
observeandlearn
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
==Food is food. Crappy candy is a horrible term to carry around in your head. It is awful to condemn your child's food choices to crap whenever you see them eating something you wouldn't choose for them or for yourself. By giving them the right to choose you are freeing them to assess when and what they are hungry for at any given point. By limiting the food in your house to the food you see as acceptable you are creating a culture of "treat food" that will increase the likelihood that they focus on those foods to a greater degree than that they focus on the foods that you direct them towards.==
THANK YOU Shuyler. Somewhere along my deschooling journey, I managed to seperate the actual supply of previously restricted foods from my (obvious) verbal dislike of their actual intake. I see now that my kids have not had the chance to assess when and what they are hungry for without my passing judgments, more often than not.
I've a lot of damage to undo . . . .
Kathryn D
x
jlblock01
My oldest daughter is a freshman in college this year... she's been really surprised by the girls she goes to school with and their behavior. The very first week of school she was surprised at how often they were going out to clubs and parties...she turned down an invitation to a frat party stating... yeah I have done the frat party thing... it's just not THAT much fun! she found out later to gain entry into the party the girls were required to walk down a runway in front of all the guys! As she said..ummmm NO! She wouldn't have done it !
Alot of the girls have gotten tattoos, piercings, aren't going to class, staying up late, drinking to excess, eating to excess, not doing schoolwork etc... she was really surprised and commented that she isn't sure she appreciated how much freedom she had. She doesn't feel compelled to do any of these things! One comment she made was "Mom can you BELIEVE that some of the girls aren't doing their homework??" "really mom WHO would just NOT do their homework? WHO would go to college and not want to LEARN?" This is the child that wasn't required to do traditional schoolwork for most of her school life!
She is also surprised at the relationships that some of the girls have with their families, a gay student that is terrified her parents will find out , girls that are in tears after every phone call from home (not from being homesick but from arguments with parents!) and the list goes on. If I didn't know before what damage controlling your children does I would certainly be getting the clue now!
Oh and their cafeteria is a all you can eat situation... they can go back as many times as they like... my daughter said the first week there were alot of girls eating until they were almost sick... taking lots of food they then threw out because they couldn't eat it all and so forth. These kids are 18-19 yrs old too! My daughter has found it sad that they are so ill prepared to make decisions!
Lisa B
Alot of the girls have gotten tattoos, piercings, aren't going to class, staying up late, drinking to excess, eating to excess, not doing schoolwork etc... she was really surprised and commented that she isn't sure she appreciated how much freedom she had. She doesn't feel compelled to do any of these things! One comment she made was "Mom can you BELIEVE that some of the girls aren't doing their homework??" "really mom WHO would just NOT do their homework? WHO would go to college and not want to LEARN?" This is the child that wasn't required to do traditional schoolwork for most of her school life!
She is also surprised at the relationships that some of the girls have with their families, a gay student that is terrified her parents will find out , girls that are in tears after every phone call from home (not from being homesick but from arguments with parents!) and the list goes on. If I didn't know before what damage controlling your children does I would certainly be getting the clue now!
Oh and their cafeteria is a all you can eat situation... they can go back as many times as they like... my daughter said the first week there were alot of girls eating until they were almost sick... taking lots of food they then threw out because they couldn't eat it all and so forth. These kids are 18-19 yrs old too! My daughter has found it sad that they are so ill prepared to make decisions!
Lisa B
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
>
> There you go, you've got all the evidence there. If you control something, releasing controls doesn't get you balance, it gets you a period when they are absolutely bingeing on the controlled good. It's why my neice is so very excited at the idea of being 18 and getting to drink. Much of what she talks about is what and how much she's gonna drink when she's of age (it's 18 in the UK).
>
> Simon and Linnaea have not been restricted ever.Today Simon grabbed a bag of Doritos cool ranch chips and walked to the computer. I asked if he'd like a tuna sandwich and he said yes and put the chips back. He was hungry and went for an easy option. Having a choice of something that took a moment of work and a bit of awareness of what was in the pantry changed what he wanted.
>
> Give her time. Girls are particularly sensitive to food controls. There's good data on girls' responses to parental food restrictions that suggests that they have an extreme response to those controls. Thus girls are more likely to either binge on controlled food or move toward anorexia or bulemia. Do what you can to see it as a gift that you are giving your daughter. When she's 18 she won't be focused on what she couldn't have a child. She'll have the time to focus on other things and other parts of her life. And she'll be more likely to eat when she's hungry and stop when she's full.
>
>
> Schuyler
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: observeandlearn <kathryndubay@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 6:31:48 AM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Daughter's weight gain
>
> Hello all -- an issue that's in my and my partner's mind is my daughter's weight gain since food restrictions were lifted. Just to give you a little history, prior to our children going 'free range' I had a pretty tight belt on all processed foods. As of Easter this year, I let go and allow them to eat what they want, when they want. Meals and platters are still served as usual, but they now have access to all sorts of lollies, soft drinks, chips, crackers, etc, that were simply not bought in the recent past, or unlimited.
>
> Mia is 7 and has had my values/understanding on food really pushed on her in the past. I worry that this past preaching has done long term damage. I understand that there is a strong element of 'defooding' going on here. She has a good balance; she eats her meals as well as snacks continuously on the sweets, etc. But the weight gain is fairly significant, and my fear of her continuing to expand is always in the back of my mind.
>
> She is aware of her weight gain, as her clothes suddenly do not fit her, and she is now wearing sizes that are up to 3 times larger than her ideal! This is the same girl that used to wear clothes 3 times smaller than her ideal . . . obviously, there as an element of 'growth spurt' going on here too. Would love to hear others opinions and/or similar life experiences. I just know there is some piece of the puzzle here that I'm not seeing/perceiving. I do drop comments here and there implying her weight gain is related to her intake of processed foods. Should I not?
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice,
>
> Kathryn D
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jenna Robertson
Wow, things do get lost in translation in e-mail posts.
When my daughter grabs the wrapper and tells me not to read the ingredients she's mostly teasing me because it's a bit of a family joke that I am a compulsive label reader. On the other hand, I think it's important to know what's in things because there are some foods and or chemicals/additives I choose not to put in in my body. As a parent I think it's o.k. to teach my kids that I have values and that's one of my values.
My kids don't just spend their money on candy at the gas station, you make it sound pathetic. It's not. To them it's an adventure to be old enough to go alone and it's empowering to be able to buy things all by themselves. The spending money was our solution that we worked out together so that they had money in their pockets instead of always feeling like they had to ask for it or that they didn't have any money of their own.
And yes, I do make sugar filled treats. My mocha brownies are legendary and yes I have suggested to the girls that we go to the library and check out books on candy making. They are really starting to enjoy being in the kitchen.
And yes, I did go to the talk about food at the Life is Good Conference in Vancouver and I do get it when it comes to the idea of not giving added value to foods by forbidding them.
All that said, I'm probably never going to be thrilled when my kids eat an entire bag high fructose corn syrup and artificial flavors and colors. To me, that's not food. You can judge that all you want. As much as I appreciate the ideals of unschooling and unconditional parenting, it isn't an easy fit w/ my personality/hard wiring/upbringing or the challenging place our family is at right now and while I've done a lot of growing and learning over the past 13 years of being a parent I obviously still have a lot of learning and growing to do - every parent does. I realize this is an "information group" vs. a "support group" but some times it feels like a little more support and a little less slapping people in the face would make the information easier for people to hear.
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When my daughter grabs the wrapper and tells me not to read the ingredients she's mostly teasing me because it's a bit of a family joke that I am a compulsive label reader. On the other hand, I think it's important to know what's in things because there are some foods and or chemicals/additives I choose not to put in in my body. As a parent I think it's o.k. to teach my kids that I have values and that's one of my values.
My kids don't just spend their money on candy at the gas station, you make it sound pathetic. It's not. To them it's an adventure to be old enough to go alone and it's empowering to be able to buy things all by themselves. The spending money was our solution that we worked out together so that they had money in their pockets instead of always feeling like they had to ask for it or that they didn't have any money of their own.
And yes, I do make sugar filled treats. My mocha brownies are legendary and yes I have suggested to the girls that we go to the library and check out books on candy making. They are really starting to enjoy being in the kitchen.
And yes, I did go to the talk about food at the Life is Good Conference in Vancouver and I do get it when it comes to the idea of not giving added value to foods by forbidding them.
All that said, I'm probably never going to be thrilled when my kids eat an entire bag high fructose corn syrup and artificial flavors and colors. To me, that's not food. You can judge that all you want. As much as I appreciate the ideals of unschooling and unconditional parenting, it isn't an easy fit w/ my personality/hard wiring/upbringing or the challenging place our family is at right now and while I've done a lot of growing and learning over the past 13 years of being a parent I obviously still have a lot of learning and growing to do - every parent does. I realize this is an "information group" vs. a "support group" but some times it feels like a little more support and a little less slapping people in the face would make the information easier for people to hear.
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
Cameron has only sat in on a couple of courses---not enrolled in college. But he visited his girlfriend at college often. The classes he sat in on and visited were filled with young adults who were busy doing homework, texting, sleeping. Not caring about the class they were IN. Just filling the boxes. He also witnessed the excessive behavior your daughter did---in his own girlfriend even.
We discussed the freedoms. Most kids get to college excited about the new-found freedom. He would have gotten there and felt oppressed and stifled with all the rules. <g>
?~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: jlblock01 <jlblock01@...>
My oldest daughter is a freshman in college this year... she's been really
surprised by the girls she goes to school with and their behavior. The very
first week of school she was surprised at how often they were going out to clubs
and parties...she turned down an invitation to a frat party stating... yeah I
have done the frat party thing... it's just not THAT much fun! she found out
later to gain entry into the party the girls were required to walk down a runway
in front of all the guys! As she said..ummmm NO! She wouldn't have done it !
Alot of the girls have gotten tattoos, piercings, aren't going to class, staying
up late, drinking to excess, eating to excess, not doing schoolwork etc... she
was really surprised and commented that she isn't sure she appreciated how much
freedom she had. She doesn't feel compelled to do any of these things! One
comment she made was "Mom can you BELIEVE that some of the girls aren't doing
their homework??" "really mom WHO would just NOT do their homework? WHO would
go to college and not want to LEARN?" This is the child that wasn't required
to do traditional schoolwork for most of her school life!
She is also surprised at the relationships that some of the girls have with
their families, a gay student that is terrified her parents will find out ,
girls that are in tears after every phone call from home (not from being
homesick but from arguments with parents!) and the list goes on. If I didn't
know before what damage controlling your children does I would certainly be
getting the clue now!
Oh and their cafeteria is a all you can eat situation... they can go back as
many times as they like... my daughter said the first week there were alot of
girls eating until they were almost sick... taking lots of food they then threw
out because they couldn't eat it all and so forth. These kids are 18-19 yrs
old too! My daughter has found it sad that they are so ill prepared to make
decisions!
Lisa B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We discussed the freedoms. Most kids get to college excited about the new-found freedom. He would have gotten there and felt oppressed and stifled with all the rules. <g>
?~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: jlblock01 <jlblock01@...>
My oldest daughter is a freshman in college this year... she's been really
surprised by the girls she goes to school with and their behavior. The very
first week of school she was surprised at how often they were going out to clubs
and parties...she turned down an invitation to a frat party stating... yeah I
have done the frat party thing... it's just not THAT much fun! she found out
later to gain entry into the party the girls were required to walk down a runway
in front of all the guys! As she said..ummmm NO! She wouldn't have done it !
Alot of the girls have gotten tattoos, piercings, aren't going to class, staying
up late, drinking to excess, eating to excess, not doing schoolwork etc... she
was really surprised and commented that she isn't sure she appreciated how much
freedom she had. She doesn't feel compelled to do any of these things! One
comment she made was "Mom can you BELIEVE that some of the girls aren't doing
their homework??" "really mom WHO would just NOT do their homework? WHO would
go to college and not want to LEARN?" This is the child that wasn't required
to do traditional schoolwork for most of her school life!
She is also surprised at the relationships that some of the girls have with
their families, a gay student that is terrified her parents will find out ,
girls that are in tears after every phone call from home (not from being
homesick but from arguments with parents!) and the list goes on. If I didn't
know before what damage controlling your children does I would certainly be
getting the clue now!
Oh and their cafeteria is a all you can eat situation... they can go back as
many times as they like... my daughter said the first week there were alot of
girls eating until they were almost sick... taking lots of food they then threw
out because they couldn't eat it all and so forth. These kids are 18-19 yrs
old too! My daughter has found it sad that they are so ill prepared to make
decisions!
Lisa B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachel Lowder
I have to agree with Jenna here. I personally don't believe that supporting products like Cool ranch doritos is healthy for a society. It's not food, it's a bunch of chemicals, altered starches, and the packaging, promotion of them on media, and food miles involved don't fit with my belief system.
I don't limit what my kids can have in the house, since we just don't buy this junk. I don't have bags and bowls of candy and chips available, just as we don't keep crack and heroin freely available, or packs of marlboros available for them to "experiment and learn" with.
As my two grow older, I'll be encouraging them to actually research where this stuff comes from. And the effects nutritionally empty foods have on society and the long term health of people and a society. Then, once they've proved they are fully educated? Then at that point, if they decide they want to participated in such a broken system, they can.
But I'm not going to enable bad eating habits in kids too young to understand the complexities of lab-designed frankenfood.
JMO.
Rachel
I don't limit what my kids can have in the house, since we just don't buy this junk. I don't have bags and bowls of candy and chips available, just as we don't keep crack and heroin freely available, or packs of marlboros available for them to "experiment and learn" with.
As my two grow older, I'll be encouraging them to actually research where this stuff comes from. And the effects nutritionally empty foods have on society and the long term health of people and a society. Then, once they've proved they are fully educated? Then at that point, if they decide they want to participated in such a broken system, they can.
But I'm not going to enable bad eating habits in kids too young to understand the complexities of lab-designed frankenfood.
JMO.
Rachel
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
From: Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Daughter's weight gain
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 9:53 AM
Wow, things do get lost in translation in e-mail posts.
When my daughter grabs the wrapper and tells me not to read the ingredients she's mostly teasing me because it's a bit of a family joke that I am a compulsive label reader. On the other hand, I think it's important to know what's in things because there are some foods and or chemicals/additives I choose not to put in in my body. As a parent I think it's o.k. to teach my kids that I have values and that's one of my values.
My kids don't just spend their money on candy at the gas station, you make it sound pathetic. It's not. To them it's an adventure to be old enough to go alone and it's empowering to be able to buy things all by themselves. The spending money was our solution that we worked out together so that they had money in their pockets instead of always feeling like they had to ask for it or that they didn't have any money of their own.
And yes, I do make sugar filled treats. My mocha brownies are legendary and yes I have suggested to the girls that we go to the library and check out books on candy making. They are really starting to enjoy being in the kitchen.
And yes, I did go to the talk about food at the Life is Good Conference in Vancouver and I do get it when it comes to the idea of not giving added value to foods by forbidding them.
All that said, I'm probably never going to be thrilled when my kids eat an entire bag high fructose corn syrup and artificial flavors and colors. To me, that's not food. You can judge that all you want. As much as I appreciate the ideals of unschooling and unconditional parenting, it isn't an easy fit w/ my personality/ hard wiring/upbringing or the challenging place our family is at right now and while I've done a lot of growing and learning over the past 13 years of being a parent I obviously still have a lot of learning and growing to do - every parent does. I realize this is an "information group" vs. a "support group" but some times it feels like a little more support and a little less slapping people in the face would make the information easier for people to hear.
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
I realize this is an "information group" vs. a "support
group" but some times it feels like a little more support and a little less
slapping people in the face would make the information easier for people to
hear.
You asked the question. You were given answers. If an answer doesn't suit *you*, fine. But it may have made an impression on 60 other readers and it may change *their* children's lives forever. Take what you like; if it doesn't suit you, leave it.
Discussion about the way posts are answered will NOT be tolerated. Assume all posts are written by your best friend.
?~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
group" but some times it feels like a little more support and a little less
slapping people in the face would make the information easier for people to
hear.
You asked the question. You were given answers. If an answer doesn't suit *you*, fine. But it may have made an impression on 60 other readers and it may change *their* children's lives forever. Take what you like; if it doesn't suit you, leave it.
Discussion about the way posts are answered will NOT be tolerated. Assume all posts are written by your best friend.
?~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gruvystarchild
~~I have to agree with Jenna here. I personally don't believe that supporting products like Cool ranch doritos is healthy for a society. It's not food, it's a bunch of chemicals, altered starches, and the packaging, promotion of them on media, and food miles involved don't fit with my belief system. ~~
Seeing it as a "bunch of chemicals" won't help anyone think clearly about this topic. What fits in with YOUR belief system isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about how to treat your children in regards to their desires about food. How to honor your own needs about food, and still not lay down heavy judgment on your children is something we can give lots of input about. We're not hear to support any one person's food "belief system" and I really hope parents can think outside of a "belief system" for food. Society is full of enough pressure, judgment and rules without having a whole religion about food!;)
~~I don't limit what my kids can have in the house, since we just don't buy this junk. I don't have bags and bowls of candy and chips available, just as we don't keep crack and heroin freely available, or packs of marlboros available for them to "experiment and learn" with. ~~
Comparing candy and chips to crack and heroin is pretty outrageous. Would you like to talk about true drug addiction? Because I have a brother who has lived most of his adult life in prison and I can tell you about the effects of drug addiction. It doesn't look anything like chips and candy and that very idea is offensive to me. Chips and candy don't cause you to go an beat people up to get more. Chips and candy don't make you forget who you are or make you want to get more so badly you do awful things to people. Chips and candy don't land you in jail and ruin lives. Don't compare FOOD to drug addiction...it's inflammatory and completely illogical.
~~As my two grow older, I'll be encouraging them to actually research where this stuff comes from. And the effects nutritionally empty foods have on society and the long term health of people and a society. Then, once they've proved they are fully educated? Then at that point, if they decide they want to participated in such a broken system, they can.~~
If you do the above and they make choices you don't approve of, all you've done is damage their relationship with you. As the mother of a grown kid and some that are close to being grown, I can PROMISE you they will make choices you disagree with at some point. If you're raising children with the hopes of them always choosing what you approve of, good luck. In the mean time, the judgment and pushing might hurt your communication with them. They'll learn to hide certain things from you.
Like everything else, children will learn about food from modeling and curiosity much better than "encouraging" or judgment.
~~But I'm not going to enable bad eating habits in kids too young to understand the complexities of lab-designed frankenfood. ~~
This shows a huge lack of trust. If you did let your children choose what they eat, what is going to happen? Do you not trust them to feel their own bodies and what they need? Kids are actually pretty good at this when not controlled. They'll learn over time. Providing healthy food is great....but fearing their ability just because they're young isn't a great start for long-term healthy habits.
I don't keep everything and anything available at my house either (who could..it's just not possible)...but when my children ask for something I don't lay down heavy guilt and start in with words like "frankenfood" and other such nonsense.
Keep in mind, we garden, keep bees and are very concerned about the food supply. If *I* can learn to trust food choices, anyone can. It's a matter of putting your childs freedom ahead of your "belief system". Or better yet, letting go of "belief systems" and living life fully.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Seeing it as a "bunch of chemicals" won't help anyone think clearly about this topic. What fits in with YOUR belief system isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about how to treat your children in regards to their desires about food. How to honor your own needs about food, and still not lay down heavy judgment on your children is something we can give lots of input about. We're not hear to support any one person's food "belief system" and I really hope parents can think outside of a "belief system" for food. Society is full of enough pressure, judgment and rules without having a whole religion about food!;)
~~I don't limit what my kids can have in the house, since we just don't buy this junk. I don't have bags and bowls of candy and chips available, just as we don't keep crack and heroin freely available, or packs of marlboros available for them to "experiment and learn" with. ~~
Comparing candy and chips to crack and heroin is pretty outrageous. Would you like to talk about true drug addiction? Because I have a brother who has lived most of his adult life in prison and I can tell you about the effects of drug addiction. It doesn't look anything like chips and candy and that very idea is offensive to me. Chips and candy don't cause you to go an beat people up to get more. Chips and candy don't make you forget who you are or make you want to get more so badly you do awful things to people. Chips and candy don't land you in jail and ruin lives. Don't compare FOOD to drug addiction...it's inflammatory and completely illogical.
~~As my two grow older, I'll be encouraging them to actually research where this stuff comes from. And the effects nutritionally empty foods have on society and the long term health of people and a society. Then, once they've proved they are fully educated? Then at that point, if they decide they want to participated in such a broken system, they can.~~
If you do the above and they make choices you don't approve of, all you've done is damage their relationship with you. As the mother of a grown kid and some that are close to being grown, I can PROMISE you they will make choices you disagree with at some point. If you're raising children with the hopes of them always choosing what you approve of, good luck. In the mean time, the judgment and pushing might hurt your communication with them. They'll learn to hide certain things from you.
Like everything else, children will learn about food from modeling and curiosity much better than "encouraging" or judgment.
~~But I'm not going to enable bad eating habits in kids too young to understand the complexities of lab-designed frankenfood. ~~
This shows a huge lack of trust. If you did let your children choose what they eat, what is going to happen? Do you not trust them to feel their own bodies and what they need? Kids are actually pretty good at this when not controlled. They'll learn over time. Providing healthy food is great....but fearing their ability just because they're young isn't a great start for long-term healthy habits.
I don't keep everything and anything available at my house either (who could..it's just not possible)...but when my children ask for something I don't lay down heavy guilt and start in with words like "frankenfood" and other such nonsense.
Keep in mind, we garden, keep bees and are very concerned about the food supply. If *I* can learn to trust food choices, anyone can. It's a matter of putting your childs freedom ahead of your "belief system". Or better yet, letting go of "belief systems" and living life fully.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Karen Swanay
I don't limit what my kids can have in the house, since we just don't buy
this junk. I don't have bags and bowls of candy and chips available, just as
we don't keep crack and heroin freely available, or packs of marlboros
available for them to "experiment and learn" with.
Rachel
Wow...and I thought I was an extreme thinker. WOW. Are you ever hostile
and extreme. Eating a Dorito isn't going to kill your kid. And there isn't
anything about a Cheeto that comes close to heroin. Hyperbole rarely works
and should be avoided.
YOU DO limit your children can have in the house because you don't buy "this
junk"...not only do you limit it, you've made it clear that certain foods
are bad and others are good. Let me remind you that people died last summer
from eating e-coli tainted spinach. I wonder if their families would have
rathered that they ate a bag of Doritos and lived rather than died from e
coli? You think?
RELAX....this behavior will just about guarantee that your kids will go
straight for the "junk" as soon as they can get away from you. Not only
that, but you are setting them up to link food with shame...nice way to
create an eating disorder.
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
this junk. I don't have bags and bowls of candy and chips available, just as
we don't keep crack and heroin freely available, or packs of marlboros
available for them to "experiment and learn" with.
Rachel
Wow...and I thought I was an extreme thinker. WOW. Are you ever hostile
and extreme. Eating a Dorito isn't going to kill your kid. And there isn't
anything about a Cheeto that comes close to heroin. Hyperbole rarely works
and should be avoided.
YOU DO limit your children can have in the house because you don't buy "this
junk"...not only do you limit it, you've made it clear that certain foods
are bad and others are good. Let me remind you that people died last summer
from eating e-coli tainted spinach. I wonder if their families would have
rathered that they ate a bag of Doritos and lived rather than died from e
coli? You think?
RELAX....this behavior will just about guarantee that your kids will go
straight for the "junk" as soon as they can get away from you. Not only
that, but you are setting them up to link food with shame...nice way to
create an eating disorder.
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Rachel Lowder
I hear where you are coming from and respect that. However, I believe firmly that REALLY unhealthy food choices can be just as fatal and harmful as drug addiction.
I'm a nurse. I've seen the long term fallout from people who ate nothing but junk. Now, I will admit that probably a lot of that behaviour came from comments about their weight, force-feeding by parents (I tell my kids "just eat however much you want, you don't have to finish") and a lifetime of living in food deserts - places where healthy food wasn't available, or was incredibly expensive.
But it's brutal to have to watch someone suffer because they have ballooned up to 400+ pounds. To need insulin to survive. To need a walker to ambulate, to need a trapeze to turn over in bed. To need a bi-pap machine to breathe while sleeping. It's hard to watch them suffer. All I can do is support them, help as best I can, and assure them that they are still beautiful to ME. But to see all that and know it was totally preventable? It's hard. I won't provide my kids with the tools of their own destruction.
Oh, and by the way, I've raised two stepkids. With the same food rules (eat what you like, when you are hungry - but with no junk food in the house, but at friend's houses, eat whatever you like) and they are fine, healthy, eat a reasonable diet, and have never been overweight. They eat some junk, occasionally, but it's rare. Real rare. And we all get along fine and it's never been a source of conflict. They both have jobs, are fit, are happily married, are happy and functional human beings who seem at peace with themselves. They've never been in trouble with the law, etc.
So yeah, even though my kids are young at this point, I *have* raised school age and teenage kids and know all about that, and can say I've done it sucessfully.
I'm a nurse. I've seen the long term fallout from people who ate nothing but junk. Now, I will admit that probably a lot of that behaviour came from comments about their weight, force-feeding by parents (I tell my kids "just eat however much you want, you don't have to finish") and a lifetime of living in food deserts - places where healthy food wasn't available, or was incredibly expensive.
But it's brutal to have to watch someone suffer because they have ballooned up to 400+ pounds. To need insulin to survive. To need a walker to ambulate, to need a trapeze to turn over in bed. To need a bi-pap machine to breathe while sleeping. It's hard to watch them suffer. All I can do is support them, help as best I can, and assure them that they are still beautiful to ME. But to see all that and know it was totally preventable? It's hard. I won't provide my kids with the tools of their own destruction.
Oh, and by the way, I've raised two stepkids. With the same food rules (eat what you like, when you are hungry - but with no junk food in the house, but at friend's houses, eat whatever you like) and they are fine, healthy, eat a reasonable diet, and have never been overweight. They eat some junk, occasionally, but it's rare. Real rare. And we all get along fine and it's never been a source of conflict. They both have jobs, are fit, are happily married, are happy and functional human beings who seem at peace with themselves. They've never been in trouble with the law, etc.
So yeah, even though my kids are young at this point, I *have* raised school age and teenage kids and know all about that, and can say I've done it sucessfully.
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
From: gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Daughter's weight gain
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 11:17 AM
~~I have to agree with Jenna here. I personally don't believe that supporting products like Cool ranch doritos is healthy for a society. It's not food, it's a bunch of chemicals, altered starches, and the packaging, promotion of them on media, and food miles involved don't fit with my belief system. ~~
Seeing it as a "bunch of chemicals" won't help anyone think clearly about this topic. What fits in with YOUR belief system isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about how to treat your children in regards to their desires about food. How to honor your own needs about food, and still not lay down heavy judgment on your children is something we can give lots of input about. We're not hear to support any one person's food "belief system" and I really hope parents can think outside of a "belief system" for food. Society is full of enough pressure, judgment and rules without having a whole religion about food!;)
~~I don't limit what my kids can have in the house, since we just don't buy this junk. I don't have bags and bowls of candy and chips available, just as we don't keep crack and heroin freely available, or packs of marlboros available for them to "experiment and learn" with. ~~
Comparing candy and chips to crack and heroin is pretty outrageous. Would you like to talk about true drug addiction? Because I have a brother who has lived most of his adult life in prison and I can tell you about the effects of drug addiction. It doesn't look anything like chips and candy and that very idea is offensive to me. Chips and candy don't cause you to go an beat people up to get more. Chips and candy don't make you forget who you are or make you want to get more so badly you do awful things to people. Chips and candy don't land you in jail and ruin lives. Don't compare FOOD to drug addiction... it's inflammatory and completely illogical.
~~As my two grow older, I'll be encouraging them to actually research where this stuff comes from. And the effects nutritionally empty foods have on society and the long term health of people and a society. Then, once they've proved they are fully educated? Then at that point, if they decide they want to participated in such a broken system, they can.~~
If you do the above and they make choices you don't approve of, all you've done is damage their relationship with you. As the mother of a grown kid and some that are close to being grown, I can PROMISE you they will make choices you disagree with at some point. If you're raising children with the hopes of them always choosing what you approve of, good luck. In the mean time, the judgment and pushing might hurt your communication with them. They'll learn to hide certain things from you.
Like everything else, children will learn about food from modeling and curiosity much better than "encouraging" or judgment.
~~But I'm not going to enable bad eating habits in kids too young to understand the complexities of lab-designed frankenfood. ~~
This shows a huge lack of trust. If you did let your children choose what they eat, what is going to happen? Do you not trust them to feel their own bodies and what they need? Kids are actually pretty good at this when not controlled. They'll learn over time. Providing healthy food is great....but fearing their ability just because they're young isn't a great start for long-term healthy habits.
I don't keep everything and anything available at my house either (who could..it's just not possible)... but when my children ask for something I don't lay down heavy guilt and start in with words like "frankenfood" and other such nonsense.
Keep in mind, we garden, keep bees and are very concerned about the food supply. If *I* can learn to trust food choices, anyone can. It's a matter of putting your childs freedom ahead of your "belief system". Or better yet, letting go of "belief systems" and living life fully.
Ren
radicalunschooling. blogspot. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachel Lowder
My kids have this stuff at others houses and I'm fine with that. I just choose not to have it in my house is all. When they are elsewhere, at friends or meeting kids at the park or the playground attached Burgerking* - they eat this stuff sometimes - although largely they selflimit even then. My oldest is 4 and will only eat a couple bites of ice cream at a restaraunt and then go back to playing. Ditto with my youngest, 3. She'll eat about 4 chips then try and feed the rest to squirrls, or her imaginary mouse friend, or whatever. A love for supersweet or supersalty or superfatty foods is an acquired thing, and we aren't helping them acquire it by daily exposure.
I've raised two (now grown) stepkids with the same rules. They are fine, fit, happy, and we all still get along, even after I divorced their dad. They never went wild with Cheetos the minute they left home. They still eat healthy. Neither has an eating disorder, they are grown and at a healthy weight. I've already raised two kids this way, successfully, throuth the schoolage and teen years, so I consider it a proven method.
If you want to feed your kids in a different way - go for it. Different strokes for different folks.
*Burger King because it's the only fast food place they have veggieburgers.
I've raised two (now grown) stepkids with the same rules. They are fine, fit, happy, and we all still get along, even after I divorced their dad. They never went wild with Cheetos the minute they left home. They still eat healthy. Neither has an eating disorder, they are grown and at a healthy weight. I've already raised two kids this way, successfully, throuth the schoolage and teen years, so I consider it a proven method.
If you want to feed your kids in a different way - go for it. Different strokes for different folks.
*Burger King because it's the only fast food place they have veggieburgers.
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Daughter's weight gain
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 11:22 AM
I don't limit what my kids can have in the house, since we just don't buy
this junk. I don't have bags and bowls of candy and chips available, just as
we don't keep crack and heroin freely available, or packs of marlboros
available for them to "experiment and learn" with.
Rachel
Wow...and I thought I was an extreme thinker. WOW. Are you ever hostile
and extreme. Eating a Dorito isn't going to kill your kid. And there isn't
anything about a Cheeto that comes close to heroin. Hyperbole rarely works
and should be avoided.
YOU DO limit your children can have in the house because you don't buy "this
junk"...not only do you limit it, you've made it clear that certain foods
are bad and others are good. Let me remind you that people died last summer
from eating e-coli tainted spinach. I wonder if their families would have
rathered that they ate a bag of Doritos and lived rather than died from e
coli? You think?
RELAX....this behavior will just about guarantee that your kids will go
straight for the "junk" as soon as they can get away from you. Not only
that, but you are setting them up to link food with shame...nice way to
create an eating disorder.
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Coffee Goddess
>>They never went wild with Cheetos the minute they left home. >>Do you really think they would share with you if they had?
I was raised like this. It is not respectful or fair. It causes your children to believe *your* truth and to look to *you* for answers about food. I binged at friends' houses when my parents weren't around to police me, but I certainly never told them about it. There are no foods that are so dangerous that will kill your kids if you have them in your home. Quit being an alarmist and show your kids the real world, where there WILL be food choices...
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
Oh, and by the way, I've raised two stepkids. With the same food rules (eat
what you like, when you are hungry - but with no junk food in the house, but
at friend's houses, eat whatever you like) and they are fine, healthy, eat a
reasonable diet, and have never been overweight. They eat some junk,
occasionally, but it's rare. Real rare. And we all get along fine and it's
never been a source of conflict. They both have jobs, are fit, are happily
married, are happy and functional human beings who seem at peace with
themselves. They've never been in trouble with the law, etc.
So yeah, even though my kids are young at this point, I *have* raised school
age and teenage kids and know all about that, and can say I've done it
sucessfully.
~Are you suggesting that there is a direct correlation between junk food and
prison?
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
what you like, when you are hungry - but with no junk food in the house, but
at friend's houses, eat whatever you like) and they are fine, healthy, eat a
reasonable diet, and have never been overweight. They eat some junk,
occasionally, but it's rare. Real rare. And we all get along fine and it's
never been a source of conflict. They both have jobs, are fit, are happily
married, are happy and functional human beings who seem at peace with
themselves. They've never been in trouble with the law, etc.
So yeah, even though my kids are young at this point, I *have* raised school
age and teenage kids and know all about that, and can say I've done it
sucessfully.
~Are you suggesting that there is a direct correlation between junk food and
prison?
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gruvystarchild
~~I'm a nurse. I've seen the long term fallout from people who ate nothing but junk. Now, I will admit that probably a lot of that behaviour came from comments about their weight, force-feeding by parents ~~
I doubt a single one of those unhealthy people were unschoolers raised the way we're advocating here. Not one. So your comparison is useless. People are overweight for a number of different reasons and the extreme cases you are citing are most likely people who are drowning some kind of sorrow or difficulty.
"Ate nothing but junk" is a FAR different scenario than what any of us are advocating. Nobody is saying "feed your kid chips and candy and nothing else". Comparing a free child to someone who only eats "junk food" is not helping yourself or anyone else understand how to release fear and control.
~~To need insulin to survive.~~
My friend Rachel needs insulin to survive. In fact she is so severely diabetic that she must have an insulin pump. She's had a lifetime of diabetes and eating healthy. Healthy eating does not guarantee health.
~~ I won't provide my kids with the tools of their own destruction. ~~
Your kids will make their own choices, with or without you.
~~Oh, and by the way, I've raised two stepkids. With the same food rules (eat what you like, when you are hungry - but with no junk food in the house, but at friend's houses, eat whatever you like) and they are fine, healthy, eat a reasonable diet, and have never been overweight.~~
I could eat "junk" all day and not be overweight. Raising two stepkids means that someone else probably had influence on them too...not just you and their Dad. Nobody is saying that kids who are controlled won't grow up healthy and happy. We ARE saying that controls get in the way of healthy, happy relationships though.
~~They eat some junk, occasionally, but it's rare. Real rare.~~
You really don't know that for sure. With all your judgments about food, they probably aren't going to tell you a lot about what they eat if it conflicts with your "belief system".
~~So yeah, even though my kids are young at this point, I *have* raised school age and teenage kids and know all about that, and can say I've done it sucessfully.~~
You weren't the only adult raising them.
Again, if everyone who had food controls were completely dysfunctional it would be easier to point to the evidence. People respond differently to controls. Control still hinders healthy relationships. Do you control your adult friends diets? Do you try to control your spouses choices? That's considered unhealthy in adult relationships but acceptable with children. We're here to examine adult-child relationships and how they can be more respectful, more open and more trust-filled.
Controlling and judging food choices won't help relationships be better.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
I doubt a single one of those unhealthy people were unschoolers raised the way we're advocating here. Not one. So your comparison is useless. People are overweight for a number of different reasons and the extreme cases you are citing are most likely people who are drowning some kind of sorrow or difficulty.
"Ate nothing but junk" is a FAR different scenario than what any of us are advocating. Nobody is saying "feed your kid chips and candy and nothing else". Comparing a free child to someone who only eats "junk food" is not helping yourself or anyone else understand how to release fear and control.
~~To need insulin to survive.~~
My friend Rachel needs insulin to survive. In fact she is so severely diabetic that she must have an insulin pump. She's had a lifetime of diabetes and eating healthy. Healthy eating does not guarantee health.
~~ I won't provide my kids with the tools of their own destruction. ~~
Your kids will make their own choices, with or without you.
~~Oh, and by the way, I've raised two stepkids. With the same food rules (eat what you like, when you are hungry - but with no junk food in the house, but at friend's houses, eat whatever you like) and they are fine, healthy, eat a reasonable diet, and have never been overweight.~~
I could eat "junk" all day and not be overweight. Raising two stepkids means that someone else probably had influence on them too...not just you and their Dad. Nobody is saying that kids who are controlled won't grow up healthy and happy. We ARE saying that controls get in the way of healthy, happy relationships though.
~~They eat some junk, occasionally, but it's rare. Real rare.~~
You really don't know that for sure. With all your judgments about food, they probably aren't going to tell you a lot about what they eat if it conflicts with your "belief system".
~~So yeah, even though my kids are young at this point, I *have* raised school age and teenage kids and know all about that, and can say I've done it sucessfully.~~
You weren't the only adult raising them.
Again, if everyone who had food controls were completely dysfunctional it would be easier to point to the evidence. People respond differently to controls. Control still hinders healthy relationships. Do you control your adult friends diets? Do you try to control your spouses choices? That's considered unhealthy in adult relationships but acceptable with children. We're here to examine adult-child relationships and how they can be more respectful, more open and more trust-filled.
Controlling and judging food choices won't help relationships be better.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Karen Swanay
I almost choked on my water when I read this...lmao. From this website:
http://www.shapefit.com/burgerking.html
*Food Description* *Servings* *Calories* *Fat (gms)* *Carbs (gms)* *Protein
(gms)* *Burger King*
Hamburger
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(4.2 oz)
(120 gm) 320 15 27 19 *Burger King*
Homestyle Griller
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(4.1 oz)
(116 gm) 490 27 36 26 *Burger King*
Smokehouse Cheddar Griller
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(4.1 oz)
(116 gm) 665 44 32 34 *Burger King*
Veggie Burger
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(6.8 oz)
(193 gm) 360 13 46 13 *Burger King*
Whopper Jr.(R)
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(5.6 oz)
(158 gm) 400 24 28 19
According to the nutritional analysis, your kids would be better off eating
a hamburger than a veggie burger. (Unless you are vegetarians) But I'm
guessing it's about you controlling what they eat, think and do.
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
http://www.shapefit.com/burgerking.html
*Food Description* *Servings* *Calories* *Fat (gms)* *Carbs (gms)* *Protein
(gms)* *Burger King*
Hamburger
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(4.2 oz)
(120 gm) 320 15 27 19 *Burger King*
Homestyle Griller
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(4.1 oz)
(116 gm) 490 27 36 26 *Burger King*
Smokehouse Cheddar Griller
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(4.1 oz)
(116 gm) 665 44 32 34 *Burger King*
Veggie Burger
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(6.8 oz)
(193 gm) 360 13 46 13 *Burger King*
Whopper Jr.(R)
(Hamburgers) 1 ea
(5.6 oz)
(158 gm) 400 24 28 19
According to the nutritional analysis, your kids would be better off eating
a hamburger than a veggie burger. (Unless you are vegetarians) But I'm
guessing it's about you controlling what they eat, think and do.
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Rachel Lowder <lowderra@...> wrote:
>
>
> *Burger King because it's the only fast food place they have veggieburgers.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Professional Parenting
I try not to buy any junkfood either. But when we have sleepovers or parties, we go on "junk runs" where I bring all the kids attending and everyone gets to pick out one item to share with the group. The items chosen usually consist of ice-cream, cookies, candy, chips, pop, etc.
They can gorge all night as much as they wish. It's usually all eaten by the next day and then it's gone. My kids seem happy with this arrangement and usually don't crave the stuff in between parties and sleepovers. They are ages 7-18.
Judy Arnall
Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of Canadian Bestseller:
Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
Website www.professionalparenting.ca
Speaker Bio: http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
Tele: (403) 714-6766
Email jarnall@...
Parenting is the best job in the world and the hardest! If you would like a daily parenting tip/strategy/affirmation/support
please follow me www.twitter.com/JudyArnall
or my Amazon Blog http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/A1R7S822XSIVBA/ref=cm_blog_dp_artist_blog
or my Youtube Channel www.youtube.com/parentproblemsolver
or facebook http://profile.to/judyarnall
or linked-in www.linkedin.com/in/judyarnall
They can gorge all night as much as they wish. It's usually all eaten by the next day and then it's gone. My kids seem happy with this arrangement and usually don't crave the stuff in between parties and sleepovers. They are ages 7-18.
Judy Arnall
Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of Canadian Bestseller:
Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
Website www.professionalparenting.ca
Speaker Bio: http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
Tele: (403) 714-6766
Email jarnall@...
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----- Original Message -----
From: Rachel Lowder
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Daughter's weight gain
I hear where you are coming from and respect that. However, I believe firmly that REALLY unhealthy food choices can be just as fatal and harmful as drug addiction.
I'm a nurse. I've seen the long term fallout from people who ate nothing but junk. Now, I will admit that probably a lot of that behaviour came from comments about their weight, force-feeding by parents (I tell my kids "just eat however much you want, you don't have to finish") and a lifetime of living in food deserts - places where healthy food wasn't available, or was incredibly expensive.
But it's brutal to have to watch someone suffer because they have ballooned up to 400+ pounds. To need insulin to survive. To need a walker to ambulate, to need a trapeze to turn over in bed. To need a bi-pap machine to breathe while sleeping. It's hard to watch them suffer. All I can do is support them, help as best I can, and assure them that they are still beautiful to ME. But to see all that and know it was totally preventable? It's hard. I won't provide my kids with the tools of their own destruction.
Oh, and by the way, I've raised two stepkids. With the same food rules (eat what you like, when you are hungry - but with no junk food in the house, but at friend's houses, eat whatever you like) and they are fine, healthy, eat a reasonable diet, and have never been overweight. They eat some junk, occasionally, but it's rare. Real rare. And we all get along fine and it's never been a source of conflict. They both have jobs, are fit, are happily married, are happy and functional human beings who seem at peace with themselves. They've never been in trouble with the law, etc.
So yeah, even though my kids are young at this point, I *have* raised school age and teenage kids and know all about that, and can say I've done it sucessfully.
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
From: gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Daughter's weight gain
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 11:17 AM
~~I have to agree with Jenna here. I personally don't believe that supporting products like Cool ranch doritos is healthy for a society. It's not food, it's a bunch of chemicals, altered starches, and the packaging, promotion of them on media, and food miles involved don't fit with my belief system. ~~
Seeing it as a "bunch of chemicals" won't help anyone think clearly about this topic. What fits in with YOUR belief system isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about how to treat your children in regards to their desires about food. How to honor your own needs about food, and still not lay down heavy judgment on your children is something we can give lots of input about. We're not hear to support any one person's food "belief system" and I really hope parents can think outside of a "belief system" for food. Society is full of enough pressure, judgment and rules without having a whole religion about food!;)
~~I don't limit what my kids can have in the house, since we just don't buy this junk. I don't have bags and bowls of candy and chips available, just as we don't keep crack and heroin freely available, or packs of marlboros available for them to "experiment and learn" with. ~~
Comparing candy and chips to crack and heroin is pretty outrageous. Would you like to talk about true drug addiction? Because I have a brother who has lived most of his adult life in prison and I can tell you about the effects of drug addiction. It doesn't look anything like chips and candy and that very idea is offensive to me. Chips and candy don't cause you to go an beat people up to get more. Chips and candy don't make you forget who you are or make you want to get more so badly you do awful things to people. Chips and candy don't land you in jail and ruin lives. Don't compare FOOD to drug addiction... it's inflammatory and completely illogical.
~~As my two grow older, I'll be encouraging them to actually research where this stuff comes from. And the effects nutritionally empty foods have on society and the long term health of people and a society. Then, once they've proved they are fully educated? Then at that point, if they decide they want to participated in such a broken system, they can.~~
If you do the above and they make choices you don't approve of, all you've done is damage their relationship with you. As the mother of a grown kid and some that are close to being grown, I can PROMISE you they will make choices you disagree with at some point. If you're raising children with the hopes of them always choosing what you approve of, good luck. In the mean time, the judgment and pushing might hurt your communication with them. They'll learn to hide certain things from you.
Like everything else, children will learn about food from modeling and curiosity much better than "encouraging" or judgment.
~~But I'm not going to enable bad eating habits in kids too young to understand the complexities of lab-designed frankenfood. ~~
This shows a huge lack of trust. If you did let your children choose what they eat, what is going to happen? Do you not trust them to feel their own bodies and what they need? Kids are actually pretty good at this when not controlled. They'll learn over time. Providing healthy food is great....but fearing their ability just because they're young isn't a great start for long-term healthy habits.
I don't keep everything and anything available at my house either (who could..it's just not possible)... but when my children ask for something I don't lay down heavy guilt and start in with words like "frankenfood" and other such nonsense.
Keep in mind, we garden, keep bees and are very concerned about the food supply. If *I* can learn to trust food choices, anyone can. It's a matter of putting your childs freedom ahead of your "belief system". Or better yet, letting go of "belief systems" and living life fully.
Ren
radicalunschooling. blogspot. com
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Rachel Lowder
They shared other activities that they knew I wasn't crazy about, so yeah, I think they would have.
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, The Coffee Goddess <hoffmanwilson@...> wrote:
From: The Coffee Goddess <hoffmanwilson@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Daughter's weight gain
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 12:11 PM
>>They never went wild with Cheetos the minute they left home. >>
Do you really think they would share with you if they had?
I was raised like this. It is not respectful or fair. It causes your children to believe *your* truth and to look to *you* for answers about food. I binged at friends' houses when my parents weren't around to police me, but I certainly never told them about it. There are no foods that are so dangerous that will kill your kids if you have them in your home. Quit being an alarmist and show your kids the real world, where there WILL be food choices...
Dana
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