First day of unschooling
Jenna Robertson
I don't actually view this as our first day of unschooling, but it's the first day of school for our district. My almost 10 year old daughter has been in a total rage about not going back to school since yesterday afternoon. She has had mixed feelings about unschooling, but she was also the one who complained the most about going to school, schoolwork, homework, and all the social crap. She tends to be very passionate and expresses her emotions dramatically - has all her life.
Right now she's demanding that she be able to go back to school. She says, rightly, that we said she could choose what she does. However, she's never know anything but school, change is hard and scary, she's feeling left out of "normal life" and I truly believe that unschooling will be great for her if she'd give it a chance.
We are trying Very hard to be patient. But she's not willing to discuss things rationally at this point so we can't get past the "I want to go to school NOW!" part. We've been struggling as parents to be unconditional w/ her because she seems to want us to set limits and get angry. Obviously she's most likely testing to see what we'll do, and honestly we feel like we fail at being patient and understanding way too often, which makes feel like perhaps this just isn't working for this child and us as parents. It's working great w/ the oldest and o.k. w/ the youngest.
I'm taking them to a park we love to make s'mores and play in the river today - feels like a total bribe or something now instead of the joyful celebration of our freedom I'd planned.
I also feel like the other two girls aren't getting to express or experience their own emotions related to not going back to school (not to mention mine!) because the middle one is expressing hers so much.
I appreciated Meredith's assurance that her stepson found he didn't miss school. I'm just wondering if we can give this a go long enough for my daughter to realize she enjoys it and doesn't miss school because she's so determined to go back to school w/out even seeing how it feels not to go to school. On the other hand, she has had a few moments where she's more rational and says that she'll give it a try, but those moments pass quickly and she's back to yelling. Yes, I want her to choose, but I feel like school is a conditioned response - brainwashing - something that is such a societal norm that it may be too hard for her to choose not to go even if that really is best for her at this point.
Have any of you had to keep very busy at first to fill the void of school? I hear about kids wanting to play video games or watch TV/movies, but do some kids need what seems to amount to distracting them from the lure of school?
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Right now she's demanding that she be able to go back to school. She says, rightly, that we said she could choose what she does. However, she's never know anything but school, change is hard and scary, she's feeling left out of "normal life" and I truly believe that unschooling will be great for her if she'd give it a chance.
We are trying Very hard to be patient. But she's not willing to discuss things rationally at this point so we can't get past the "I want to go to school NOW!" part. We've been struggling as parents to be unconditional w/ her because she seems to want us to set limits and get angry. Obviously she's most likely testing to see what we'll do, and honestly we feel like we fail at being patient and understanding way too often, which makes feel like perhaps this just isn't working for this child and us as parents. It's working great w/ the oldest and o.k. w/ the youngest.
I'm taking them to a park we love to make s'mores and play in the river today - feels like a total bribe or something now instead of the joyful celebration of our freedom I'd planned.
I also feel like the other two girls aren't getting to express or experience their own emotions related to not going back to school (not to mention mine!) because the middle one is expressing hers so much.
I appreciated Meredith's assurance that her stepson found he didn't miss school. I'm just wondering if we can give this a go long enough for my daughter to realize she enjoys it and doesn't miss school because she's so determined to go back to school w/out even seeing how it feels not to go to school. On the other hand, she has had a few moments where she's more rational and says that she'll give it a try, but those moments pass quickly and she's back to yelling. Yes, I want her to choose, but I feel like school is a conditioned response - brainwashing - something that is such a societal norm that it may be too hard for her to choose not to go even if that really is best for her at this point.
Have any of you had to keep very busy at first to fill the void of school? I hear about kids wanting to play video games or watch TV/movies, but do some kids need what seems to amount to distracting them from the lure of school?
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gwen
My oldest is eight this year and has never been to school. We love the beginning of the school year because all of our favorite places are suddenly not crowded anymore.
The zoo, the childen's museum, parks, and even the mall are much emptier when school starts.
I don't know where you live or what your kids' interests are, but could you plan a week or two of adventure doing fun things? Mini-golf, amusement parks, and pools will probably be open for a little while longer before closing down/reducing hours for the winter. You can be a tourist in your own hometown.
Even going to the movies in the middle of the day is fun because the theater can be totally yours.
Is there somewhere semi-close that you go? Somewhere within an hour or two of driving that is new and fun and different? Could you stay there overnight and see the sights? I know money is tight for lots of people right now, so financially that may be too much.
I guess what I'm trying to get it is that you need to be more interesting than school. More fun. More engaging. But it all comes back to what your kids' interests are.
Gwen
The zoo, the childen's museum, parks, and even the mall are much emptier when school starts.
I don't know where you live or what your kids' interests are, but could you plan a week or two of adventure doing fun things? Mini-golf, amusement parks, and pools will probably be open for a little while longer before closing down/reducing hours for the winter. You can be a tourist in your own hometown.
Even going to the movies in the middle of the day is fun because the theater can be totally yours.
Is there somewhere semi-close that you go? Somewhere within an hour or two of driving that is new and fun and different? Could you stay there overnight and see the sights? I know money is tight for lots of people right now, so financially that may be too much.
I guess what I'm trying to get it is that you need to be more interesting than school. More fun. More engaging. But it all comes back to what your kids' interests are.
Gwen
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
Have any of you had to keep very busy at first to fill the void of school? I hear about kids wanting to play video games or watch TV/movies, but do some kids need what seems to amount to distracting them from the lure of school?
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Paul & Camille
Cant give you any help, but my eldest is exactly as you explain your middle child. She is 20 now and still very similar with her needs - she lives in the moment totally and what she wants NOW, is usually expressed due to the emotions that she is feeling NOW and she cannot see past them, even at 20. I have long struggled with this and how best to help her. Letting her do as she wanted in her case didnt help as she has jumped from this to that and now ends up not working half the time or seeing anything through due to the fact that she reacts to how she is feeling NOW - e.g work sux I dont want to be here anymore. She attended regular school for the record and maybe things would have been alot different for her had she stayed home. I think its who she is, but its not easy to watch as you say, the out of control emotions and for the most part not being able to see past them. Hope you get some other advice from people that have a solution for you :)
Blessings, Camille
My almost 10 year old daughter has been in a total rage about not going back to school since yesterday afternoon. She has had mixed feelings about unschooling, but she was also the one who complained the most about going to school, schoolwork, homework, and all the social crap. She tends to be very passionate and expresses her emotions dramatically - has all her life.
Right now she's demanding that she be able to go back to school. She says, rightly, that we said she could choose what she does. However, she's never know anything but school, change is hard and scary, she's feeling left out of "normal life" and I truly believe that unschooling will be great for her if she'd give it a chance.
We are trying Very hard to be patient. But she's not willing to discuss things rationally at this point so we can't get past the "I want to go to school NOW!" part. We've been struggling as parents to be unconditional w/ her because she seems to want us to set limits and get angry. Obviously she's most likely testing to see what we'll do, and honestly we feel like we fail at being patient and understanding way too often, which makes feel like perhaps this just isn't working for this child and us as parents. It's working great w/ the oldest and o.k. w/ the youngest.
I also feel like the other two girls aren't getting to express or experience their own emotions related to not going back to school (not to mention mine!) because the middle one is expressing hers so much.
I appreciated Meredith's assurance that her stepson found he didn't miss school. I'm just wondering if we can give this a go long enough for my daughter to realize she enjoys it and doesn't miss school because she's so determined to go back to school w/out even seeing how it feels not to go to school. On the other hand, she has had a few moments where she's more rational and says that she'll give it a try, but those moments pass quickly and she's back to yelling.
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Blessings, Camille
My almost 10 year old daughter has been in a total rage about not going back to school since yesterday afternoon. She has had mixed feelings about unschooling, but she was also the one who complained the most about going to school, schoolwork, homework, and all the social crap. She tends to be very passionate and expresses her emotions dramatically - has all her life.
Right now she's demanding that she be able to go back to school. She says, rightly, that we said she could choose what she does. However, she's never know anything but school, change is hard and scary, she's feeling left out of "normal life" and I truly believe that unschooling will be great for her if she'd give it a chance.
We are trying Very hard to be patient. But she's not willing to discuss things rationally at this point so we can't get past the "I want to go to school NOW!" part. We've been struggling as parents to be unconditional w/ her because she seems to want us to set limits and get angry. Obviously she's most likely testing to see what we'll do, and honestly we feel like we fail at being patient and understanding way too often, which makes feel like perhaps this just isn't working for this child and us as parents. It's working great w/ the oldest and o.k. w/ the youngest.
I also feel like the other two girls aren't getting to express or experience their own emotions related to not going back to school (not to mention mine!) because the middle one is expressing hers so much.
I appreciated Meredith's assurance that her stepson found he didn't miss school. I'm just wondering if we can give this a go long enough for my daughter to realize she enjoys it and doesn't miss school because she's so determined to go back to school w/out even seeing how it feels not to go to school. On the other hand, she has had a few moments where she's more rational and says that she'll give it a try, but those moments pass quickly and she's back to yelling.
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
Let her have her cake and eat it! Tell her she can go but doesn't have to go every day if she doesn't want to and can stop at any time - she made need to transition a bit.
Its only a "bribe" if you don't plan to do ever do things like that again. Think of it, instead, as a great start to a new life. You really can go to the park any day at all to play. That's part of unschooling. Doing fun things because you can, because there's no-one forcing you to sit at a desk all day.
Let your dd go to school and plan more fun things. If she says "but I want to come, too" then say "well, of course you can, going to school is your choice, remember?"
You'll want to check whatever the relevant laws are, find out how many days she's "allowed" to miss, if they can be partial days, if you can enroll her as a homeschooler but still have her attend school some of the time. Find out what you need to do to let her have the time she needs to transition.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
>> Right now she's demanding that she be able to go back to school. She says, rightly, that we said she could choose what she does. However, she's never know anything but school, change is hard and scary, she's feeling left out of "normal life" and I truly believe that unschooling will be great for her if she'd give it a chance.**********************
Let her have her cake and eat it! Tell her she can go but doesn't have to go every day if she doesn't want to and can stop at any time - she made need to transition a bit.
> I'm taking them to a park we love to make s'mores and play in the river today - feels like a total bribe or something now instead of the joyful celebration of our freedom I'd planned.***********************
Its only a "bribe" if you don't plan to do ever do things like that again. Think of it, instead, as a great start to a new life. You really can go to the park any day at all to play. That's part of unschooling. Doing fun things because you can, because there's no-one forcing you to sit at a desk all day.
Let your dd go to school and plan more fun things. If she says "but I want to come, too" then say "well, of course you can, going to school is your choice, remember?"
You'll want to check whatever the relevant laws are, find out how many days she's "allowed" to miss, if they can be partial days, if you can enroll her as a homeschooler but still have her attend school some of the time. Find out what you need to do to let her have the time she needs to transition.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 2, 2009, at 7:22 PM, Paul & Camille wrote:
unschooling list! If what unschoolers are doing has no effect on
kids, then we might as well send them to school and explore our own
interests outside the family.
surprising that a little taste of freedom isn't enough. New
unschoolers are advised that it takes at least one month for each
month in school to deschool. And those months need to be consecutive
so moms need to restart the deschooling clock if they slip back into
schoolish ways. (I'm betting there parents here who are still
suffering from the aftereffects of school because they never got to
spend a whole year just chilling. Some of the damage never really
goes away.)
When food or TV is controlled, it's not uncommon for kids to binge
when given freedom. (And why saying yes more rather than "Have at
it!" is more useful advice! ;-) Having hours not only controlled by
school, but having society denigrate off hours spent exploring topics
that aren't "worthy" of time, are all like prison bars. We accept all
that control as common and the way life is, but once someone has
stepped far away from school, it's shocking how much it feels like
living in a box where you can interact only with what is given to you
and are judged on your choices whenever you venture outside of the box.
Just because school is common and pervasive doesn't mean it isn't
damaging. It's probably a rare person who isn't changed from how they
would have been if they'd been unschooled.
You can't turn back the clock to change her past, but you can change
her right now life. If she's still living in the house, Guerilla
Learning might have some ways you can help her explore her interests
and find ways to chill. It could be she feels pressure to start being
an adult because of her age but never got the chance to be free to do
"nothing". (Which for unschooled kids is always something even if it
looks like nothing from the outside. Even for schooled kids nothing
is always something, but quite often is recovery from the pressure of
school.) Can you take some time out to explore with her some
interests that have *no* ulterior motive (like mind improvement,
better job skills) for being done? Things that may be totally outside
her usual interests. Or deeper involvement in some of her interests?
Joyce
> She attended regular school for the record and maybe things wouldThis is important information when sharing about kids on an
> have been alot different for her had she stayed home.
unschooling list! If what unschoolers are doing has no effect on
kids, then we might as well send them to school and explore our own
interests outside the family.
> Letting her do as she wanted in her case didnt helpFor at least 12 years she didn't get to do as she wanted so it's not
>
surprising that a little taste of freedom isn't enough. New
unschoolers are advised that it takes at least one month for each
month in school to deschool. And those months need to be consecutive
so moms need to restart the deschooling clock if they slip back into
schoolish ways. (I'm betting there parents here who are still
suffering from the aftereffects of school because they never got to
spend a whole year just chilling. Some of the damage never really
goes away.)
When food or TV is controlled, it's not uncommon for kids to binge
when given freedom. (And why saying yes more rather than "Have at
it!" is more useful advice! ;-) Having hours not only controlled by
school, but having society denigrate off hours spent exploring topics
that aren't "worthy" of time, are all like prison bars. We accept all
that control as common and the way life is, but once someone has
stepped far away from school, it's shocking how much it feels like
living in a box where you can interact only with what is given to you
and are judged on your choices whenever you venture outside of the box.
Just because school is common and pervasive doesn't mean it isn't
damaging. It's probably a rare person who isn't changed from how they
would have been if they'd been unschooled.
You can't turn back the clock to change her past, but you can change
her right now life. If she's still living in the house, Guerilla
Learning might have some ways you can help her explore her interests
and find ways to chill. It could be she feels pressure to start being
an adult because of her age but never got the chance to be free to do
"nothing". (Which for unschooled kids is always something even if it
looks like nothing from the outside. Even for schooled kids nothing
is always something, but quite often is recovery from the pressure of
school.) Can you take some time out to explore with her some
interests that have *no* ulterior motive (like mind improvement,
better job skills) for being done? Things that may be totally outside
her usual interests. Or deeper involvement in some of her interests?
Joyce
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 2, 2009, at 1:21 PM, Jenna Robertson wrote:
class and decide she wanted to stay home. Having spent the money, my
initial reaction was "Of course you have to go." But I'd catch myself
and reassure her that she didn't have to go. I can't remember a time
when she didn't decide to go.
But if she'd decided to stay home, that would have been okay too.
What she wanted was the choice. It's lots easier to put up with the
bad parts of something if you know you're choosing to put up with it
to get to the good parts rather than when it's forced on you.
Let her choose. Unschooling is a lot about kids trying things out and
assessing for themselves what they like and don't like. If you force
her to stay home, she'll focus on the negative parts and it will make
it a whole lot harder for her to accept unschooling. (And if you make
her stay home and she finally decides unschooling is okay, there
might still be some residual resentment that it wasn't entirely her
choice.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But she's not willing to discuss things rationally at this point soOccasionally my daughter would balk at the hour drive to her art
> we can't get past the "I want to go to school NOW!" part.
class and decide she wanted to stay home. Having spent the money, my
initial reaction was "Of course you have to go." But I'd catch myself
and reassure her that she didn't have to go. I can't remember a time
when she didn't decide to go.
But if she'd decided to stay home, that would have been okay too.
What she wanted was the choice. It's lots easier to put up with the
bad parts of something if you know you're choosing to put up with it
to get to the good parts rather than when it's forced on you.
Let her choose. Unschooling is a lot about kids trying things out and
assessing for themselves what they like and don't like. If you force
her to stay home, she'll focus on the negative parts and it will make
it a whole lot harder for her to accept unschooling. (And if you make
her stay home and she finally decides unschooling is okay, there
might still be some residual resentment that it wasn't entirely her
choice.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jacquie Krauskopf
My son is 9 now and we are trying unschooling for the first time. He is so happy at how we are getting along. I however, get nervous. I feel like i am on a tightrope and someone greased it and removed the net below! I hope this works it is so much more relaxed to do then school at home. So far he has played Sims (first one) read the book Clemintine. Read the book Frannie K Stein. Looked at some pics and read some volcano books, played the chimes at the library chimes group, made corn bread, finished his study on sharks. Watched a show on Michael Jackson. SIGH.
Jacquie
________________________________
From: Gwen <willow_selene@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 6:29:53 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] First day of unschooling
My oldest is eight this year and has never been to school. We love the beginning of the school year because all of our favorite places are suddenly not crowded anymore.
The zoo, the childen's museum, parks, and even the mall are much emptier when school starts.
I don't know where you live or what your kids' interests are, but could you plan a week or two of adventure doing fun things? Mini-golf, amusement parks, and pools will probably be open for a little while longer before closing down/reducing hours for the winter. You can be a tourist in your own hometown.
Even going to the movies in the middle of the day is fun because the theater can be totally yours.
Is there somewhere semi-close that you go? Somewhere within an hour or two of driving that is new and fun and different? Could you stay there overnight and see the sights? I know money is tight for lots of people right now, so financially that may be too much.
I guess what I'm trying to get it is that you need to be more interesting than school. More fun. More engaging. But it all comes back to what your kids' interests are.
Gwen
Jacquie
________________________________
From: Gwen <willow_selene@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 6:29:53 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] First day of unschooling
My oldest is eight this year and has never been to school. We love the beginning of the school year because all of our favorite places are suddenly not crowded anymore.
The zoo, the childen's museum, parks, and even the mall are much emptier when school starts.
I don't know where you live or what your kids' interests are, but could you plan a week or two of adventure doing fun things? Mini-golf, amusement parks, and pools will probably be open for a little while longer before closing down/reducing hours for the winter. You can be a tourist in your own hometown.
Even going to the movies in the middle of the day is fun because the theater can be totally yours.
Is there somewhere semi-close that you go? Somewhere within an hour or two of driving that is new and fun and different? Could you stay there overnight and see the sights? I know money is tight for lots of people right now, so financially that may be too much.
I guess what I'm trying to get it is that you need to be more interesting than school. More fun. More engaging. But it all comes back to what your kids' interests are.
Gwen
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Jenna Robertson <mamamole@yahoo. com> wrote:
Have any of you had to keep very busy at first to fill the void of school? I hear about kids wanting to play video games or watch TV/movies, but do some kids need what seems to amount to distracting them from the lure of school?
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenna Robertson
Thank you to everyone for sharing about your person experiences :).
We are still struggling and things have gotten even more complicated because I said I'd take her in on Tuesday to sign back up to go to school, but that I couldn't promise she'd get the teacher she had (a family friend and someone she loves) last year (he looped w/ his class). Sure enough, I checked in w/ the teacher who also checked in w/ the principal and they aren't making any promises about placement. The teacher she wants has the largest 4th grade class right now. Then I realized that the other two options for teachers aren't great. The first one has said negative things about gifted kids and the program my daughter attends one day a week, so I can't expect a lot of flexibility from her. The other has a 3rd and 4th combined, and while I have experience w/ her as a teacher and think she's great, the class would be a bad fit for my oldest in the 4th grade class "gifted" daughter since it's already differentiated downward, not up.
Clare (my daughter) and I still haven't been able to stay calm during discussions on the topic. However, I wrote her a letter about my feelings and how I'm trying to let her make her own decisions. I also made some lists of the things I remember she didn't like about school, the reasons I thought unschooling was a good idea for our family, and some of the things you can do if you unschool that you can't do at school. I tried to be non-manipulative in these lists, just looking at facts. Clare tends to take in information better if it's written. We've also taken a walk together, because she's better at expressing herself while she's in motion. We've agreed that we'll try and minimize discussion for a few days so she can reflect on her feelings, and I've agreed to take her to school to see about enrolling on Tuesday (after the holiday Monday.) This weekend is her father's birthday and her birthday so it will be fun and busy. I'm hoping that
will help her relax and think things over instead of blindly clinging to her "I want to go to school!" statement.
I've realized this is hard for me because I had worked hard to get myself aligned w/ unschooling and leaving the system. Obviously I have control issues (I grew up in a very controlling family) and some times it takes me a little time to change course from MY plan. And I know it's about giving up control and letting the kids take responsibility for their education, but knowing and actually letting go is very different. I also know that if she returns to school and can't have her favorite teacher it will ultimately be my fault for "making her leave school." Sigh.
I think leaving town for 3 days at the start of the year would have been so good for us, but unfortunately my husband was laid off in June and is now working 1/2 time, on unemployment 1/2 and job hunting. He works in Early childhood education/parent education and is presently doing family advocate work (working w/ families and kids in bad situations - he is not enjoying it at all). Money has always been tight because of his line of work, now it's beyond tight. On top of that, my van is making bad noises and when it dies we'll have one car, in the mean time I dare not drive long distances. My husband needs the other car for work starting at 6:30 a.m. and often not returning until dinner time. (and he's not in a good place himself, frustrated w/ life and work and Clare's behaviors. That means I am pretty much on my own w/ parenting Clare right now.) Yesterday we did drive to the park. Today we walked 20 minutes to the store for some
craft supplies and bought ice cream before walking home. Tomorrow I have to be gone 5 hours cleaning a house, hopefully the girls will decide to get along and have fun while I'm gone!
:)
O.K. this is way too long!! sorry.
Thanks again for the input. It helps me stay on track w/ the letting her make her own choice, even though I'll admit it's hard for me to stay positive and not snappish at times (we're dealing w/ our own bedtime issues as well - kids staying up till all hours w/ husband getting up at 5:30 a.m. - me not getting enough sleep.)
It's all a big transition right now, but in a few months I trust things will be slightly less stressful.
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We are still struggling and things have gotten even more complicated because I said I'd take her in on Tuesday to sign back up to go to school, but that I couldn't promise she'd get the teacher she had (a family friend and someone she loves) last year (he looped w/ his class). Sure enough, I checked in w/ the teacher who also checked in w/ the principal and they aren't making any promises about placement. The teacher she wants has the largest 4th grade class right now. Then I realized that the other two options for teachers aren't great. The first one has said negative things about gifted kids and the program my daughter attends one day a week, so I can't expect a lot of flexibility from her. The other has a 3rd and 4th combined, and while I have experience w/ her as a teacher and think she's great, the class would be a bad fit for my oldest in the 4th grade class "gifted" daughter since it's already differentiated downward, not up.
Clare (my daughter) and I still haven't been able to stay calm during discussions on the topic. However, I wrote her a letter about my feelings and how I'm trying to let her make her own decisions. I also made some lists of the things I remember she didn't like about school, the reasons I thought unschooling was a good idea for our family, and some of the things you can do if you unschool that you can't do at school. I tried to be non-manipulative in these lists, just looking at facts. Clare tends to take in information better if it's written. We've also taken a walk together, because she's better at expressing herself while she's in motion. We've agreed that we'll try and minimize discussion for a few days so she can reflect on her feelings, and I've agreed to take her to school to see about enrolling on Tuesday (after the holiday Monday.) This weekend is her father's birthday and her birthday so it will be fun and busy. I'm hoping that
will help her relax and think things over instead of blindly clinging to her "I want to go to school!" statement.
I've realized this is hard for me because I had worked hard to get myself aligned w/ unschooling and leaving the system. Obviously I have control issues (I grew up in a very controlling family) and some times it takes me a little time to change course from MY plan. And I know it's about giving up control and letting the kids take responsibility for their education, but knowing and actually letting go is very different. I also know that if she returns to school and can't have her favorite teacher it will ultimately be my fault for "making her leave school." Sigh.
I think leaving town for 3 days at the start of the year would have been so good for us, but unfortunately my husband was laid off in June and is now working 1/2 time, on unemployment 1/2 and job hunting. He works in Early childhood education/parent education and is presently doing family advocate work (working w/ families and kids in bad situations - he is not enjoying it at all). Money has always been tight because of his line of work, now it's beyond tight. On top of that, my van is making bad noises and when it dies we'll have one car, in the mean time I dare not drive long distances. My husband needs the other car for work starting at 6:30 a.m. and often not returning until dinner time. (and he's not in a good place himself, frustrated w/ life and work and Clare's behaviors. That means I am pretty much on my own w/ parenting Clare right now.) Yesterday we did drive to the park. Today we walked 20 minutes to the store for some
craft supplies and bought ice cream before walking home. Tomorrow I have to be gone 5 hours cleaning a house, hopefully the girls will decide to get along and have fun while I'm gone!
:)
O.K. this is way too long!! sorry.
Thanks again for the input. It helps me stay on track w/ the letting her make her own choice, even though I'll admit it's hard for me to stay positive and not snappish at times (we're dealing w/ our own bedtime issues as well - kids staying up till all hours w/ husband getting up at 5:30 a.m. - me not getting enough sleep.)
It's all a big transition right now, but in a few months I trust things will be slightly less stressful.
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Jacquie Krauskopf <home_maker97@...> wrote:
Maybe it would help you to start a big project of your own - start a new hobby or set yourself a research project. Give yourself something to focus on besides your son. If your used to doing school at home then some of the unsettled feeling is coming from you needing something else to do with all the time and energy that went into school at home. If you did a lot of planning and organizing for that, look for something new to plan and to organize.
Its also a good idea to keep in mind that this is a transition that's affecting everyone in the family - so You're transitioning too. How do you deal with transitions? What works for you to help you be relatively balanced in a time of uncertainty? Look for things you can do for yourself, to take care of yourself. When you get ants in the pants, remind yourself that its a transition! Its taking you time to get used to a new way of being.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
>****************************
> My son is 9 now and we are trying unschooling for the first time. He is so happy at how we are getting along. I however, get nervous. I feel like i am on a tightrope and someone greased it and removed the net below! I hope this works it is so much more relaxed to do then school at home.
Maybe it would help you to start a big project of your own - start a new hobby or set yourself a research project. Give yourself something to focus on besides your son. If your used to doing school at home then some of the unsettled feeling is coming from you needing something else to do with all the time and energy that went into school at home. If you did a lot of planning and organizing for that, look for something new to plan and to organize.
Its also a good idea to keep in mind that this is a transition that's affecting everyone in the family - so You're transitioning too. How do you deal with transitions? What works for you to help you be relatively balanced in a time of uncertainty? Look for things you can do for yourself, to take care of yourself. When you get ants in the pants, remind yourself that its a transition! Its taking you time to get used to a new way of being.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
It much more important to consider how your dd would feel about the class than its... hmmm, level of academic achievement, if you see what I mean. If that's an issue for your daughter, that's one thing. But if the teacher is someone she'll like and the class seems like its an adequate fit, socially (if its even possible to tell) than that's a good reason for her to be there, if she wants to be in school. The more you can get away from thinking in schoolish terms, even when dealing with school itself, the better chance you'll have of helping your dd meet her needs and figure out what she wants to do and where she wants to be!
You might want to read over at Sandra's site (sorry my computer is clunky at the moment, so my links aren't accessible) on the topic of school choice and also giftedness for more thoughts in those two areas.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
>The other has a 3rd and 4th combined, and while I have experience w/ her as a teacher and think she's great, the class would be a bad fit for my oldest in the 4th grade class "gifted" daughter since it's already differentiated downward, not up.*********************
It much more important to consider how your dd would feel about the class than its... hmmm, level of academic achievement, if you see what I mean. If that's an issue for your daughter, that's one thing. But if the teacher is someone she'll like and the class seems like its an adequate fit, socially (if its even possible to tell) than that's a good reason for her to be there, if she wants to be in school. The more you can get away from thinking in schoolish terms, even when dealing with school itself, the better chance you'll have of helping your dd meet her needs and figure out what she wants to do and where she wants to be!
You might want to read over at Sandra's site (sorry my computer is clunky at the moment, so my links aren't accessible) on the topic of school choice and also giftedness for more thoughts in those two areas.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
Paul & Camille
Thankyou Joyce,
I do believe she was totally changed by school. She was always one of those children that followed the rules to the letter when at school, and now she doesnt seem to be confident in herself. Its like she learnt to live by rules and now without someone telling her what to do she doesnt know what to do.
Even though she doesnt live at home anymore she still texts or calls me whenever she is going to make a decision to run it by me, e.g moving house, buying/selling a car, jobs, going away, anything - and to be honest to get my approval!!! I cant figure this out, as I help her as much as I can but leave the decision to her - as its her life. She has been like that since leaving school - as though she doesnt have the confidence or doesnt believe she has the skills to make decisions herself, only follow the rules. Of course noone else can make the right decision for her. Ive found that as long as I think its okay, she will just bound into it. This of course has left her open to being used and abused by friends, who are that way inclined.
I am always looking for ways to help her but really am unsure how too. Is Guerrilla Learning you mentioned the book? Do you think it would be helpful for me to get it? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks. The aftermath of school - being a learner not a thinker, and I believe as you say many many of us are like that. Im so glad that my youngest will not be going to school - he is such a thinker that it makes my head spin :)
Blessings, Camille
I do believe she was totally changed by school. She was always one of those children that followed the rules to the letter when at school, and now she doesnt seem to be confident in herself. Its like she learnt to live by rules and now without someone telling her what to do she doesnt know what to do.
Even though she doesnt live at home anymore she still texts or calls me whenever she is going to make a decision to run it by me, e.g moving house, buying/selling a car, jobs, going away, anything - and to be honest to get my approval!!! I cant figure this out, as I help her as much as I can but leave the decision to her - as its her life. She has been like that since leaving school - as though she doesnt have the confidence or doesnt believe she has the skills to make decisions herself, only follow the rules. Of course noone else can make the right decision for her. Ive found that as long as I think its okay, she will just bound into it. This of course has left her open to being used and abused by friends, who are that way inclined.
I am always looking for ways to help her but really am unsure how too. Is Guerrilla Learning you mentioned the book? Do you think it would be helpful for me to get it? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks. The aftermath of school - being a learner not a thinker, and I believe as you say many many of us are like that. Im so glad that my youngest will not be going to school - he is such a thinker that it makes my head spin :)
Blessings, Camille
----- Original Message -----
From: Joyce Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] First day of unschooling
On Sep 2, 2009, at 7:22 PM, Paul & Camille wrote:
> She attended regular school for the record and maybe things would
> have been alot different for her had she stayed home.
This is important information when sharing about kids on an
unschooling list! If what unschoolers are doing has no effect on
kids, then we might as well send them to school and explore our own
interests outside the family.
> Letting her do as she wanted in her case didnt help
>
For at least 12 years she didn't get to do as she wanted so it's not
surprising that a little taste of freedom isn't enough. New
unschoolers are advised that it takes at least one month for each
month in school to deschool. And those months need to be consecutive
so moms need to restart the deschooling clock if they slip back into
schoolish ways. (I'm betting there parents here who are still
suffering from the aftereffects of school because they never got to
spend a whole year just chilling. Some of the damage never really
goes away.)
When food or TV is controlled, it's not uncommon for kids to binge
when given freedom. (And why saying yes more rather than "Have at
it!" is more useful advice! ;-) Having hours not only controlled by
school, but having society denigrate off hours spent exploring topics
that aren't "worthy" of time, are all like prison bars. We accept all
that control as common and the way life is, but once someone has
stepped far away from school, it's shocking how much it feels like
living in a box where you can interact only with what is given to you
and are judged on your choices whenever you venture outside of the box.
Just because school is common and pervasive doesn't mean it isn't
damaging. It's probably a rare person who isn't changed from how they
would have been if they'd been unschooled.
You can't turn back the clock to change her past, but you can change
her right now life. If she's still living in the house, Guerilla
Learning might have some ways you can help her explore her interests
and find ways to chill. It could be she feels pressure to start being
an adult because of her age but never got the chance to be free to do
"nothing". (Which for unschooled kids is always something even if it
looks like nothing from the outside. Even for schooled kids nothing
is always something, but quite often is recovery from the pressure of
school.) Can you take some time out to explore with her some
interests that have *no* ulterior motive (like mind improvement,
better job skills) for being done? Things that may be totally outside
her usual interests. Or deeper involvement in some of her interests?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maria Kirk
Hi Jenna,
y daughter is 13, and last month she thought she wanted to go back to school this year after cutting short the last one (she decided in the middle of the year that she wanted to stay at home and sleep in, which she did, and really enjoys it). Now after telling me that she wanted to skip this year, and start new at the highschool level, she is mostly decided in not going to school at all after all, ever again, only of course in the future to take college classes if she gets interested in a particular subject. What I started to do is her chores without announcing it, I just get ahead of her in putting the dishes away in my natural joyful way, and so she feels no ackwardness or anything like that. She just feel very welcome staying on bed as long as she wants, reading on her bed, drawing, and now writing as much as she is inspired to do so. I do nothing to stop her or start her on anything, not even to joing us at the table when we are ready for dinner, but
I provide always for her, and let her know that anytime that she is ready to eat, her meal will be waiting for her. This has been working so fine that the time spent in the computer, and with the wii has been little by little been replace by watching movies together in the daytime, and with my 11 year ald son. She is looking forward to the conference next week to meet more teens so, for this reason she decided to unschool as well, but now I know that mainly because she knows now that she can do with her time what she really wants, and that really gets her inspired. I know that if we really show them a better quality of attention, they start getting in their own groove, and less and less they need us, and more and more they actually want to be around us. It's not the quantity of time that matters in any path, but the quality. The unconditional love, and respect is what touches us the most as individuals, and if we are not getting it we should ask
ourselves why. I love this quote from Gandhi, "Be the change you want to see in the world". Let us be the change we want to see in our children. Let's go deeper within, to perceive the new world without.
Trusting this would help,
Maria.
Maria Kirk
858-776-5629
“When words are scarce they are seldom spent in vain”
William Shakespeare.
y daughter is 13, and last month she thought she wanted to go back to school this year after cutting short the last one (she decided in the middle of the year that she wanted to stay at home and sleep in, which she did, and really enjoys it). Now after telling me that she wanted to skip this year, and start new at the highschool level, she is mostly decided in not going to school at all after all, ever again, only of course in the future to take college classes if she gets interested in a particular subject. What I started to do is her chores without announcing it, I just get ahead of her in putting the dishes away in my natural joyful way, and so she feels no ackwardness or anything like that. She just feel very welcome staying on bed as long as she wants, reading on her bed, drawing, and now writing as much as she is inspired to do so. I do nothing to stop her or start her on anything, not even to joing us at the table when we are ready for dinner, but
I provide always for her, and let her know that anytime that she is ready to eat, her meal will be waiting for her. This has been working so fine that the time spent in the computer, and with the wii has been little by little been replace by watching movies together in the daytime, and with my 11 year ald son. She is looking forward to the conference next week to meet more teens so, for this reason she decided to unschool as well, but now I know that mainly because she knows now that she can do with her time what she really wants, and that really gets her inspired. I know that if we really show them a better quality of attention, they start getting in their own groove, and less and less they need us, and more and more they actually want to be around us. It's not the quantity of time that matters in any path, but the quality. The unconditional love, and respect is what touches us the most as individuals, and if we are not getting it we should ask
ourselves why. I love this quote from Gandhi, "Be the change you want to see in the world". Let us be the change we want to see in our children. Let's go deeper within, to perceive the new world without.
Trusting this would help,
Maria.
Maria Kirk
858-776-5629
“When words are scarce they are seldom spent in vain”
William Shakespeare.
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
From: Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] First day of unschooling
To: "Unschooling Basics" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 5:21 PM
I don't actually view this as our first day of unschooling, but it's the first day of school for our district. My almost 10 year old daughter has been in a total rage about not going back to school since yesterday afternoon. She has had mixed feelings about unschooling, but she was also the one who complained the most about going to school, schoolwork, homework, and all the social crap. She tends to be very passionate and expresses her emotions dramatically - has all her life.
Right now she's demanding that she be able to go back to school. She says, rightly, that we said she could choose what she does. However, she's never know anything but school, change is hard and scary, she's feeling left out of "normal life" and I truly believe that unschooling will be great for her if she'd give it a chance.
We are trying Very hard to be patient. But she's not willing to discuss things rationally at this point so we can't get past the "I want to go to school NOW!" part. We've been struggling as parents to be unconditional w/ her because she seems to want us to set limits and get angry. Obviously she's most likely testing to see what we'll do, and honestly we feel like we fail at being patient and understanding way too often, which makes feel like perhaps this just isn't working for this child and us as parents. It's working great w/ the oldest and o.k. w/ the youngest.
I'm taking them to a park we love to make s'mores and play in the river today - feels like a total bribe or something now instead of the joyful celebration of our freedom I'd planned.
I also feel like the other two girls aren't getting to express or experience their own emotions related to not going back to school (not to mention mine!) because the middle one is expressing hers so much.
I appreciated Meredith's assurance that her stepson found he didn't miss school. I'm just wondering if we can give this a go long enough for my daughter to realize she enjoys it and doesn't miss school because she's so determined to go back to school w/out even seeing how it feels not to go to school. On the other hand, she has had a few moments where she's more rational and says that she'll give it a try, but those moments pass quickly and she's back to yelling. Yes, I want her to choose, but I feel like school is a conditioned response - brainwashing - something that is such a societal norm that it may be too hard for her to choose not to go even if that really is best for her at this point.
Have any of you had to keep very busy at first to fill the void of school? I hear about kids wanting to play video games or watch TV/movies, but do some kids need what seems to amount to distracting them from the lure of school?
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 4, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Paul & Camille wrote:
around since it's a lot about changing a parent's perspective to be
more open to living and learning to avoid reinforcing the pervasive
message that school is the be all and end all of learning.
shut up and they'll be given all the things they need to begin life.
How much kids buy into that depends on their personality.
I suspect what's happening is that, when faced with a decision, she
feels like there's a hundred important factors to consider and
doesn't know what to do with them all. She probably just gets
overwhelmed by them all clamoring for attention. Or maybe she never
even gets to the point where the factors are clear. It might remain a
vague idea that there's so much to consider and she's going to miss
stuff if she even tries to think about it.
Maybe you could ask more questions to help her draw out what she
really wants. Help her start analyzing the situation rather than
doing it for her.
If you search on decision making techniques, you'll find a lot of
strategies you could use to ask questions and help her sort out the
jumble. The first two have short overviews and the last links to more
in depth discussion of the techniques.
http://www.life123.com/health/self-improvement/decision-making/
decision-making-techniques.shtml
http://blog.potterzot.com/decision-making-techniques/
http://www.mindtools.com/pages/main/newMN_TED.htm
Seems to me someone mentioned a problem solving or decision making
book for kids that might have some approaches so it doesn't sound
like you're trying to teach her ;-) If you search in the archives for
"problem solving" or "decision making" book, something might pop up.
Joyce
> Is Guerrilla Learning you mentioned the book? Do you think it wouldYes, it's a book but I think it would be more useful if she were
> be helpful for me to get it?
around since it's a lot about changing a parent's perspective to be
more open to living and learning to avoid reinforcing the pervasive
message that school is the be all and end all of learning.
> Even though she doesnt live at home anymore she still texts orIt's a pretty pervasive message in school that kids need to sit down,
> calls me whenever she is going to make a decision to run it by me,
> e.g moving house, buying/selling a car, jobs, going away, anything
> - and to be honest to get my approval!!! I cant figure this out, as
> I help her as much as I can but leave the decision to her - as its
> her life. She has been like that since leaving school - as though
> she doesnt have the confidence or doesnt believe she has the skills
> to make decisions herself, only follow the rules.
shut up and they'll be given all the things they need to begin life.
How much kids buy into that depends on their personality.
I suspect what's happening is that, when faced with a decision, she
feels like there's a hundred important factors to consider and
doesn't know what to do with them all. She probably just gets
overwhelmed by them all clamoring for attention. Or maybe she never
even gets to the point where the factors are clear. It might remain a
vague idea that there's so much to consider and she's going to miss
stuff if she even tries to think about it.
Maybe you could ask more questions to help her draw out what she
really wants. Help her start analyzing the situation rather than
doing it for her.
If you search on decision making techniques, you'll find a lot of
strategies you could use to ask questions and help her sort out the
jumble. The first two have short overviews and the last links to more
in depth discussion of the techniques.
http://www.life123.com/health/self-improvement/decision-making/
decision-making-techniques.shtml
http://blog.potterzot.com/decision-making-techniques/
http://www.mindtools.com/pages/main/newMN_TED.htm
Seems to me someone mentioned a problem solving or decision making
book for kids that might have some approaches so it doesn't sound
like you're trying to teach her ;-) If you search in the archives for
"problem solving" or "decision making" book, something might pop up.
Joyce
Heather
http://www.sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
This page IS helpful - I have revisited it lately, again. My kids both
have been intererested in school on and off and my son, 16, is finally
trying it out this fall. Sorting through all my strong feelings on it
has been challenging but absolutely essential for getting to a place
from which I can help him make the best decision for him. I am kind of
looking forward to it, now, as I am just really curious. He starts this
Wednesday at a brand new charter school. I am just looking at it as one
of many many choices he could make of things to do out there in the
world. My kids focus as unschoolers as they approached the teen years
has been to be out there in the world, more than staying at home. As
school is the main one for people their age- it seems logical that they
would want to choose it at some point, just to see.
<http://www.sandradodd.com/schoolchoice>
Also we have been talking some about kids who choose school at the
run.ning, if you'd like to join us there.
http://familyrun.ning.com/group/choosingschool
Heather (in NY)
plaidpanties666 wrote:
This page IS helpful - I have revisited it lately, again. My kids both
have been intererested in school on and off and my son, 16, is finally
trying it out this fall. Sorting through all my strong feelings on it
has been challenging but absolutely essential for getting to a place
from which I can help him make the best decision for him. I am kind of
looking forward to it, now, as I am just really curious. He starts this
Wednesday at a brand new charter school. I am just looking at it as one
of many many choices he could make of things to do out there in the
world. My kids focus as unschoolers as they approached the teen years
has been to be out there in the world, more than staying at home. As
school is the main one for people their age- it seems logical that they
would want to choose it at some point, just to see.
<http://www.sandradodd.com/schoolchoice>
Also we have been talking some about kids who choose school at the
run.ning, if you'd like to join us there.
http://familyrun.ning.com/group/choosingschool
Heather (in NY)
plaidpanties666 wrote:
>
>
>
>
> You might want to read over at Sandra's site (sorry my computer is
> clunky at the moment, so my links aren't accessible) on the topic of
> school choice and also giftedness for more thoughts in those two areas.
>
>
>
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=>
> .
>
>
Paul & Camille
Thankyou Joyce,
I will look up those websites and have a search as you suggested.
Thankyou for the time you took to help with some solutions - and yes I dont want to try and teach her - she cant and wont learn unless she wants too - now that shouldnt be a surprise should it ;)
Blessings, Camille
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I will look up those websites and have a search as you suggested.
Thankyou for the time you took to help with some solutions - and yes I dont want to try and teach her - she cant and wont learn unless she wants too - now that shouldnt be a surprise should it ;)
Blessings, Camille
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenna Robertson
My middle daughter re-enrolled in school today. I want to thank everyone on this list who took the time to respond and post links. It was a huge struggle for me to let go of my idea of our new life together and accept her choice. I had worked so hard to embrace unschooling, and to separate myself mentally and emotionally from the school (where I've been very involved for 6 years) that it was hard to shift gears.
I can say that while I still wish she was staying home w/ us, I am now fairly at peace w/ the situation. She was able to get into the class w/ her teacher from last year who she loves and who is a family friend. He sees the wonderful qualities our daughter has and supports her in being herself (as much as is possible in the classroom....) We appreciate his and the Principal's willingness to put Clare in his class since it was the largest class in the grade so she should have been placed in one of the other classes.
Clare and I have talked about how this is her choice and I'll do my best to support her decisions at school (regarding homework/work/activities) just as I'm trying to support her decisions at home.
My other two daughters still hope that Clare will eventually decide to stay home w/ us, some day. My youngest is fairly sad that her sister won't be home to keep her company.
Thank you to everyone who helped make this day easier for me, and in turn for Clare because her mother could actually be supportive and understanding (eventually).
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I can say that while I still wish she was staying home w/ us, I am now fairly at peace w/ the situation. She was able to get into the class w/ her teacher from last year who she loves and who is a family friend. He sees the wonderful qualities our daughter has and supports her in being herself (as much as is possible in the classroom....) We appreciate his and the Principal's willingness to put Clare in his class since it was the largest class in the grade so she should have been placed in one of the other classes.
Clare and I have talked about how this is her choice and I'll do my best to support her decisions at school (regarding homework/work/activities) just as I'm trying to support her decisions at home.
My other two daughters still hope that Clare will eventually decide to stay home w/ us, some day. My youngest is fairly sad that her sister won't be home to keep her company.
Thank you to everyone who helped make this day easier for me, and in turn for Clare because her mother could actually be supportive and understanding (eventually).
:)
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]