help.....
amberlee_b
We have been doing so well so it must have been time for a breakdown, right? *sigh* Last night, well technically this morning, I got up and told the boys to go to bed, shut off all the lights and just do it NOW. Yes, I was grumpy. I haven't been sleeping well and at 2 am with their dad *trying* to sleep so he could get to work I just couldn't take it anymore. Our eldest is a night kid, and that is fine, but I am not finding any good solutions to help all 3 kids get into a pattern of sleep that seems to work for them. It was going great for a while. Youngest was doing her thing and going to bed early, middle was going around midnight, teen stayed up till 3-4ish but was quiet...
Lately it has been youngest doesn't want to miss out on anything the brothers are doing so she is staying up and not getting enough sleep. The next morning when the light wakes her up as usual she is moody and needing more sleep. The middle one is trying to outdo the eldest on who can stay up and create legos later or play a video game the longest....or just playing around and the noise is driving me crazy! We have discussed being respectful of those who have to be on a different schedule and how I need it a little quieter so I can sleep if they don't want me to be irritable and cranky too. I am having trouble finding ways to help everyone see that lack of sleep is causing most of the fights of the past couple weeks and that either middle child needs a nap during the day or more sleep at night or something! Something has to change for their dad's sake. He sees the wisdom in most of unschooling except for staying up as long as you want at this point because they have been doing so since I started on this group (has it been a year? close...) and they still want to be loud and noisy at night... probably a boundary pushing thing, but still DH is getting maybe 3-4hrs sleep at night now and he needs at least 6 to function. He is constantly tired and ready to say enough experimenting already.
This seems to be the main problem we are having. We are trying to work things out so everyone will be able to have as much time on a computer as they feel they need so maybe eldest won't *need* to stay up till 5 or 6 on some days...maybe not. Those things take time and as we live on a budget in the real world we can't just go out and get everything they think they need today. So it has taken time, but we are almost there.
Also, how do you deal with the people who freak and make you wonder if you will have CPS at your door? For example teen son said, "I didn't get up till 6 today, so I am not quite awake yet" (he was up at 4:30 actually) and the people around were giving us that concerned or "what is wrong with you" look. I don't have a problem with it if it stays here in the house, but I don't like feeling like I have to explain our family every time we are out. Does anyone else ever feel that way?
I know the stress of breaking off ties with my family has been difficult for everyone lately, but now that it is done I am sure it will be better for all of us. I hope. Maybe that was part of the issue as well. Still, figuring out how to meet everyone's needs regarding sleep has made me feel I just can't handle this. Just so you all know, I do remind kids of the time (which they asked me to do so they can prepare for bed at a time they are comfortable with) but it all seems to have been thrown out the window in the past few weeks. Am I missing something? I try talking with them to see if something is bothering them, offering to make tea or read with them, to help them pick up so they can get to bed or snuggle, but none of that seems to be what is needed right now. I just feel I am missing part of the puzzle. I usually end up sleeping in or having to nap mid-day and it just makes me feel completely off. :(
Lately it has been youngest doesn't want to miss out on anything the brothers are doing so she is staying up and not getting enough sleep. The next morning when the light wakes her up as usual she is moody and needing more sleep. The middle one is trying to outdo the eldest on who can stay up and create legos later or play a video game the longest....or just playing around and the noise is driving me crazy! We have discussed being respectful of those who have to be on a different schedule and how I need it a little quieter so I can sleep if they don't want me to be irritable and cranky too. I am having trouble finding ways to help everyone see that lack of sleep is causing most of the fights of the past couple weeks and that either middle child needs a nap during the day or more sleep at night or something! Something has to change for their dad's sake. He sees the wisdom in most of unschooling except for staying up as long as you want at this point because they have been doing so since I started on this group (has it been a year? close...) and they still want to be loud and noisy at night... probably a boundary pushing thing, but still DH is getting maybe 3-4hrs sleep at night now and he needs at least 6 to function. He is constantly tired and ready to say enough experimenting already.
This seems to be the main problem we are having. We are trying to work things out so everyone will be able to have as much time on a computer as they feel they need so maybe eldest won't *need* to stay up till 5 or 6 on some days...maybe not. Those things take time and as we live on a budget in the real world we can't just go out and get everything they think they need today. So it has taken time, but we are almost there.
Also, how do you deal with the people who freak and make you wonder if you will have CPS at your door? For example teen son said, "I didn't get up till 6 today, so I am not quite awake yet" (he was up at 4:30 actually) and the people around were giving us that concerned or "what is wrong with you" look. I don't have a problem with it if it stays here in the house, but I don't like feeling like I have to explain our family every time we are out. Does anyone else ever feel that way?
I know the stress of breaking off ties with my family has been difficult for everyone lately, but now that it is done I am sure it will be better for all of us. I hope. Maybe that was part of the issue as well. Still, figuring out how to meet everyone's needs regarding sleep has made me feel I just can't handle this. Just so you all know, I do remind kids of the time (which they asked me to do so they can prepare for bed at a time they are comfortable with) but it all seems to have been thrown out the window in the past few weeks. Am I missing something? I try talking with them to see if something is bothering them, offering to make tea or read with them, to help them pick up so they can get to bed or snuggle, but none of that seems to be what is needed right now. I just feel I am missing part of the puzzle. I usually end up sleeping in or having to nap mid-day and it just makes me feel completely off. :(
Schuyler
Someone's need for sleep trumps someone else's need to play
late. I've done it. I'm really clear about it when there is likely to be a
noisy evening. When David goes to bed, things have to get quieter or they get
shut down. When I go to bed, same deal. I've stopped play because someone was
too loud. I wouldn't spend time explaining it. I would simply say, too loud,
keep it quiet or got to bed. And if they wake me or David again, they go to
bed.
There isn't a right to stay up and annoy people. Unschoolers aren't saying that
children have a right to stay up late at night. Certainly I'm not. I'm saying
that some children have difrerent sleep patterns and working to make it easier
for them is a good thing. I was a night owl. I had a really hard time going to sleep
early as a child. I would read or watch television or do other things. That
carried on into my adult life and I still will, sometimes, stay up late and do
something quietly. But being rowdy and disturbing others would mean that I had
to stop whatever I was doing. Even if that meant lying in bed not able to
sleep. Fortunately it doesn't. I have lots of options. I can play on my ds, I
can read with a reading light that doesn't disturb my co-sleepers, I can go to
a different bedroom, I can listen to a book on the ipod. I could come
downstairs and go into the furthest room from the sleepers and watch a movie.
Are there ways that you can make your daughter's room darker? I've safety
pinned blankets onto curtains to make it easier to sleep through the morning
sun in one bedroom. It isn't perfect, but it's certainly better than without
the blankets.
About your son telling people how late he slept in, tell him your concerns. Not
about CPS, maybe, but certainly about how others will perceive you as a
neglectful mother and him as a child at some risk because of the things he's
saying in public to people who would frown on those kinds of behaviours. He may
be bragging because he's so pleased about his freedoms. But it isn't always
okay to do that.
Schuyler
From: amberlee_b <amberlee16@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 September, 2009 2:28:14 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] help.....
We have been doing so well so it must have been time for a breakdown, right? *sigh* Last night, well technically this morning, I got up and told the boys to go to bed, shut off all the lights and just do it NOW. Yes, I was grumpy. I haven't been sleeping well and at 2 am with their dad *trying* to sleep so he could get to work I just couldn't take it anymore. Our eldest is a night kid, and that is fine, but I am not finding any good solutions to help all 3 kids get into a pattern of sleep that seems to work for them. It was going great for a while. Youngest was doing her thing and going to bed early, middle was going around midnight, teen stayed up till 3-4ish but was quiet...
Lately it has been youngest doesn't want to miss out on anything the brothers are doing so she is staying up and not getting enough sleep. The next morning when the light wakes her up as usual she is moody and needing more sleep. The middle one is trying to outdo the eldest on who can stay up and create legos later or play a video game the longest....or just playing around and the noise is driving me crazy! We have discussed being respectful of those who have to be on a different schedule and how I need it a little quieter so I can sleep if they don't want me to be irritable and cranky too. I am having trouble finding ways to help everyone see that lack of sleep is causing most of the fights of the past couple weeks and that either middle child needs a nap during the day or more sleep at night or something! Something has to change for their dad's sake. He sees the wisdom in most of unschooling except for staying up as long as you want at this point
because they have been doing so since I started on this group (has it been a year? close...) and they still want to be loud and noisy at night... probably a boundary pushing thing, but still DH is getting maybe 3-4hrs sleep at night now and he needs at least 6 to function. He is constantly tired and ready to say enough experimenting already.
This seems to be the main problem we are having. We are trying to work things out so everyone will be able to have as much time on a computer as they feel they need so maybe eldest won't *need* to stay up till 5 or 6 on some days...maybe not. Those things take time and as we live on a budget in the real world we can't just go out and get everything they think they need today. So it has taken time, but we are almost there.
Also, how do you deal with the people who freak and make you wonder if you will have CPS at your door? For example teen son said, "I didn't get up till 6 today, so I am not quite awake yet" (he was up at 4:30 actually) and the people around were giving us that concerned or "what is wrong with you" look. I don't have a problem with it if it stays here in the house, but I don't like feeling like I have to explain our family every time we are out. Does anyone else ever feel that way?
I know the stress of breaking off ties with my family has been difficult for everyone lately, but now that it is done I am sure it will be better for all of us. I hope. Maybe that was part of the issue as well. Still, figuring out how to meet everyone's needs regarding sleep has made me feel I just can't handle this. Just so you all know, I do remind kids of the time (which they asked me to do so they can prepare for bed at a time they are comfortable with) but it all seems to have been thrown out the window in the past few weeks. Am I missing something? I try talking with them to see if something is bothering them, offering to make tea or read with them, to help them pick up so they can get to bed or snuggle, but none of that seems to be what is needed right now. I just feel I am missing part of the puzzle. I usually end up sleeping in or having to nap mid-day and it just makes me feel completely off. :(
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
late. I've done it. I'm really clear about it when there is likely to be a
noisy evening. When David goes to bed, things have to get quieter or they get
shut down. When I go to bed, same deal. I've stopped play because someone was
too loud. I wouldn't spend time explaining it. I would simply say, too loud,
keep it quiet or got to bed. And if they wake me or David again, they go to
bed.
There isn't a right to stay up and annoy people. Unschoolers aren't saying that
children have a right to stay up late at night. Certainly I'm not. I'm saying
that some children have difrerent sleep patterns and working to make it easier
for them is a good thing. I was a night owl. I had a really hard time going to sleep
early as a child. I would read or watch television or do other things. That
carried on into my adult life and I still will, sometimes, stay up late and do
something quietly. But being rowdy and disturbing others would mean that I had
to stop whatever I was doing. Even if that meant lying in bed not able to
sleep. Fortunately it doesn't. I have lots of options. I can play on my ds, I
can read with a reading light that doesn't disturb my co-sleepers, I can go to
a different bedroom, I can listen to a book on the ipod. I could come
downstairs and go into the furthest room from the sleepers and watch a movie.
Are there ways that you can make your daughter's room darker? I've safety
pinned blankets onto curtains to make it easier to sleep through the morning
sun in one bedroom. It isn't perfect, but it's certainly better than without
the blankets.
About your son telling people how late he slept in, tell him your concerns. Not
about CPS, maybe, but certainly about how others will perceive you as a
neglectful mother and him as a child at some risk because of the things he's
saying in public to people who would frown on those kinds of behaviours. He may
be bragging because he's so pleased about his freedoms. But it isn't always
okay to do that.
Schuyler
From: amberlee_b <amberlee16@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 September, 2009 2:28:14 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] help.....
We have been doing so well so it must have been time for a breakdown, right? *sigh* Last night, well technically this morning, I got up and told the boys to go to bed, shut off all the lights and just do it NOW. Yes, I was grumpy. I haven't been sleeping well and at 2 am with their dad *trying* to sleep so he could get to work I just couldn't take it anymore. Our eldest is a night kid, and that is fine, but I am not finding any good solutions to help all 3 kids get into a pattern of sleep that seems to work for them. It was going great for a while. Youngest was doing her thing and going to bed early, middle was going around midnight, teen stayed up till 3-4ish but was quiet...
Lately it has been youngest doesn't want to miss out on anything the brothers are doing so she is staying up and not getting enough sleep. The next morning when the light wakes her up as usual she is moody and needing more sleep. The middle one is trying to outdo the eldest on who can stay up and create legos later or play a video game the longest....or just playing around and the noise is driving me crazy! We have discussed being respectful of those who have to be on a different schedule and how I need it a little quieter so I can sleep if they don't want me to be irritable and cranky too. I am having trouble finding ways to help everyone see that lack of sleep is causing most of the fights of the past couple weeks and that either middle child needs a nap during the day or more sleep at night or something! Something has to change for their dad's sake. He sees the wisdom in most of unschooling except for staying up as long as you want at this point
because they have been doing so since I started on this group (has it been a year? close...) and they still want to be loud and noisy at night... probably a boundary pushing thing, but still DH is getting maybe 3-4hrs sleep at night now and he needs at least 6 to function. He is constantly tired and ready to say enough experimenting already.
This seems to be the main problem we are having. We are trying to work things out so everyone will be able to have as much time on a computer as they feel they need so maybe eldest won't *need* to stay up till 5 or 6 on some days...maybe not. Those things take time and as we live on a budget in the real world we can't just go out and get everything they think they need today. So it has taken time, but we are almost there.
Also, how do you deal with the people who freak and make you wonder if you will have CPS at your door? For example teen son said, "I didn't get up till 6 today, so I am not quite awake yet" (he was up at 4:30 actually) and the people around were giving us that concerned or "what is wrong with you" look. I don't have a problem with it if it stays here in the house, but I don't like feeling like I have to explain our family every time we are out. Does anyone else ever feel that way?
I know the stress of breaking off ties with my family has been difficult for everyone lately, but now that it is done I am sure it will be better for all of us. I hope. Maybe that was part of the issue as well. Still, figuring out how to meet everyone's needs regarding sleep has made me feel I just can't handle this. Just so you all know, I do remind kids of the time (which they asked me to do so they can prepare for bed at a time they are comfortable with) but it all seems to have been thrown out the window in the past few weeks. Am I missing something? I try talking with them to see if something is bothering them, offering to make tea or read with them, to help them pick up so they can get to bed or snuggle, but none of that seems to be what is needed right now. I just feel I am missing part of the puzzle. I usually end up sleeping in or having to nap mid-day and it just makes me feel completely off. :(
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Coffee Goddess
Staying up on your own schedule is one thing, keeping the rest of the family up is completely another. We asked the kids last night to turn down the TV--and they did, and then we went to sleep, and I assume they did eventually, too, since they were asleep this morning. But it would NOT be ok for them to be keeping me up--I have to open the coffee shop at 7 am and would NOT be a happy camper to have not slept! Giving your kids freedom shouldn't be at your own and husband's expense!
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gruvystarchild
~~Staying up on your own schedule is one thing, keeping the rest of the family up is completely another. We asked the kids last night to turn down the TV--and they did, and then we went to sleep, and I assume they did eventually, too, since they were asleep this morning. But it would NOT be ok for them to be keeping me up--I have to open the coffee shop at 7 am and would NOT be a happy camper to have not slept! Giving your kids freedom shouldn't be at your own and husband's expense!~~
I agree. We keep problem solving when these things come up with the notion of "how can we make this work for everyone?" It's not working for everyone if people are getting woke up. I'm not very tolerant of being woke up frequently.
When Jalen was very little, I asked the older kids to please get their rooms quiet and dark so that I could help him transition to sleep. He had a very difficult time if there was ANYThing going on anywhere in the house. Once the house was quiet and dark he would lay down and nurse to sleep. Then the older kids could quietly go about their night-time activities.
There are usually a host of solutions but people getting woke up isn't cool. We've rearranged the house in the past in order to accommodate two different needs for night time. Putting the early-to-bed folks at the opposite end of the house helped us a lot. When sleep patterns disrupt the rest of the family, it's time to look at new solutions.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
I agree. We keep problem solving when these things come up with the notion of "how can we make this work for everyone?" It's not working for everyone if people are getting woke up. I'm not very tolerant of being woke up frequently.
When Jalen was very little, I asked the older kids to please get their rooms quiet and dark so that I could help him transition to sleep. He had a very difficult time if there was ANYThing going on anywhere in the house. Once the house was quiet and dark he would lay down and nurse to sleep. Then the older kids could quietly go about their night-time activities.
There are usually a host of solutions but people getting woke up isn't cool. We've rearranged the house in the past in order to accommodate two different needs for night time. Putting the early-to-bed folks at the opposite end of the house helped us a lot. When sleep patterns disrupt the rest of the family, it's time to look at new solutions.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
We've rearranged the house a couple times - mostly just furniture (its not a very big house!) so that sounds don't tend to carry to where people are sleeping. Hanging fabric or a blanket over a door can also help absorb sound. For awhile Ray had black curtains (cheapo polyester fabric, nothing glamorous) so he could sleep in without the light waking him and we'd work to keep Mo quiet in the morning, volume on the tv turned down, that sort of thing.
When Mo was younger, either George or I would stay awake, or half-awake, to mediate between Ray and Mo as needed. I wasn't working at the time (and George is a night owl) so we could take turns with that. The biggest issue in our house has been that when things get rowdy, its usually a matter of the kids getting on each others nerves. If they're just having fun, a shout from the bedroom is enough to remind them to be quiet, but when they're not happy with each other, they need some help or to get away from each other - and in our house, the only "away" is bedrooms.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
>> There are usually a host of solutions but people getting woke up isn't cool. We've rearranged the house in the past in order to accommodate two different needs for night time. Putting the early-to-bed folks at the opposite end of the house helped us a lot. When sleep patterns disrupt the rest of the family, it's time to look at new solutions.***********************
We've rearranged the house a couple times - mostly just furniture (its not a very big house!) so that sounds don't tend to carry to where people are sleeping. Hanging fabric or a blanket over a door can also help absorb sound. For awhile Ray had black curtains (cheapo polyester fabric, nothing glamorous) so he could sleep in without the light waking him and we'd work to keep Mo quiet in the morning, volume on the tv turned down, that sort of thing.
When Mo was younger, either George or I would stay awake, or half-awake, to mediate between Ray and Mo as needed. I wasn't working at the time (and George is a night owl) so we could take turns with that. The biggest issue in our house has been that when things get rowdy, its usually a matter of the kids getting on each others nerves. If they're just having fun, a shout from the bedroom is enough to remind them to be quiet, but when they're not happy with each other, they need some help or to get away from each other - and in our house, the only "away" is bedrooms.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
strawlis
Sleep is important...albeit different for everyone...I agree with all the wonderful advice you have received so far....I'd add (also in a smaller home,wood floors, thin walls) earphones, we have them all over the house...even have wireless ones for the TV.
Elisabeth mama to Liv(10)and Lex(almost9)
Elisabeth mama to Liv(10)and Lex(almost9)
amberlee_b
Thanks for the wonderful comments! I try so hard not to "bark" or be "momlike" but I did apologize for yelling. lol Last night the younger ones went to bed earlier and my eldest and I sat up and chatted (I couldn't get to sleep). He apologized for making so much noise the night before as he was playing with his brother. We discussed not telling people he gets to stay up till Dad goes to work and sleep in till almost time for play practice. I think the person on here who said he was proud of his freedom was right--he is proud that he is respected and trusted by his parents.
I think middle son would benefit from having books on an iPod to listen to, or classical music (which he really enjoys at bedtime). So we may have to look into that option as well.
I can always count on this group to pick me up from the bottom of my rope when I get there! LOL Thanks again. It also helps when I am not sleep deprived!
Amberlee
I think middle son would benefit from having books on an iPod to listen to, or classical music (which he really enjoys at bedtime). So we may have to look into that option as well.
I can always count on this group to pick me up from the bottom of my rope when I get there! LOL Thanks again. It also helps when I am not sleep deprived!
Amberlee
Paul & Camille
Great idea Elisabeth,
I didnt even think about it, but we live in a small house and when my husband plays PS or watches tv at night he puts on headphones so it doesnt wake our son.
Blessings Camille
I didnt even think about it, but we live in a small house and when my husband plays PS or watches tv at night he puts on headphones so it doesnt wake our son.
Blessings Camille
----- Original Message -----
From: strawlis
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:52 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: help.....
Sleep is important...albeit different for everyone...I agree with all the wonderful advice you have received so far....I'd add (also in a smaller home,wood floors, thin walls) earphones, we have them all over the house...even have wireless ones for the TV.
Elisabeth mama to Liv(10)and Lex(almost9)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
strawlis
--- In [email protected], "Paul & Camille" <morlingfamily@...> wrote:
Elisabeth mama to Liv(10) and Lex(days away for 9)
>:):) Yes! My 10 yr old is big into YouTube. making and watching vids. She often after cuddling with us midnight bedders...will relocate to her room (door-less and right next to one of the main sleeping rooms) and watch vids. or play her DS games until 3 or 4 am....encouraging earphones use was helped us lighter sleepers get the sleep we need(when we need it)....but the wireless and reg ear phones have really helped me, on the late night TV marathon watching, that both girls enjoy occasional sharing with DH!!!( who btw is a serious night owl)
> Great idea Elisabeth,
>
> I didnt even think about it, but we live in a small house and when my husband plays PS or watches tv at night he puts on headphones so it doesnt wake our son.
Elisabeth mama to Liv(10) and Lex(days away for 9)