OT I guess
Karen Swanay
Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more than
a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
truth, I come here.
Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
"general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And while
I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any experiments
with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-identical
to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
truth, I come here.
Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
"general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And while
I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any experiments
with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-identical
to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amy & David Porter
Do you have access to raw milk? Sometimes LI people can handle that.
Good luck.
To see what the Porters have been up to, check out our blog at www.akporters.blogspot.com
To: [email protected]
From: luvbullbreeds@...
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:57:54 -0500
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] OT I guess
Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more than
a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
truth, I come here.
Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
"general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And while
I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any experiments
with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-identical
to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Good luck.
To see what the Porters have been up to, check out our blog at www.akporters.blogspot.com
To: [email protected]
From: luvbullbreeds@...
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:57:54 -0500
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] OT I guess
Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more than
a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
truth, I come here.
Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
"general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And while
I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any experiments
with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-identical
to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Do a google search on soy milk and estrogen and you will find tons of
information and first hand stories about it. Soy milk is not the only
option. You can also try coconut milk, rice mile, or almond milk.
Connie
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Karen Swanay
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] OT I guess
Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more
than
a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
truth, I come here.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
information and first hand stories about it. Soy milk is not the only
option. You can also try coconut milk, rice mile, or almond milk.
Connie
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Karen Swanay
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] OT I guess
Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more
than
a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
truth, I come here.
Recent Activity
a.. 21New Members
Visit Your Group
Give Back
Yahoo! for Good
Get inspired
by a good cause.
Y! Toolbar
Get it Free!
easy 1-click access
to your groups.
Yahoo! Groups
Start a group
in 3 easy steps.
Connect with others.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenna Robertson
:)
Two of my three girls have never had anything other than soymilk, after weening. The oldest has been drinking soymilk since she was about 2. They do eat cheese, ice-cream and yogurt. Non of them have shown any signs of abnormal development. The oldest is turning 13 in October and has experienced typical puberty. My middle daughter will be 10 this weekend and is developing at her own pace (possible consitutional growth delay - meaning she's not growing on the "typical" growth curve, but possibly she got the random short gene that is on both side of the family) and is most likely going to hit puberty later than her sisters have/will, and my youngest is 8 1/2 and is very much on a normal developmental pattern and she has been the biggest soymilk drinker of the three.
The younger two girls have been vegetarians their entire lives and the oldest since she was 2. They eat tofu about once a week.
Personally I'm more concerned about growth hormones in dairy and hormone disrupting chemicals in cosmetics and other products. I haven't found any first hand evidence of soy causing problems.
I hope that helps.
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Two of my three girls have never had anything other than soymilk, after weening. The oldest has been drinking soymilk since she was about 2. They do eat cheese, ice-cream and yogurt. Non of them have shown any signs of abnormal development. The oldest is turning 13 in October and has experienced typical puberty. My middle daughter will be 10 this weekend and is developing at her own pace (possible consitutional growth delay - meaning she's not growing on the "typical" growth curve, but possibly she got the random short gene that is on both side of the family) and is most likely going to hit puberty later than her sisters have/will, and my youngest is 8 1/2 and is very much on a normal developmental pattern and she has been the biggest soymilk drinker of the three.
The younger two girls have been vegetarians their entire lives and the oldest since she was 2. They eat tofu about once a week.
Personally I'm more concerned about growth hormones in dairy and hormone disrupting chemicals in cosmetics and other products. I haven't found any first hand evidence of soy causing problems.
I hope that helps.
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DJ250
You may want to try raw milk!! Since it hasn't been pastuerized (cooked), the enzymes are still in there that allow us to digest the milk. People who have trouble with pasteurized milk often do very well with raw milk as well as with cultured dairy products such as yogurt and kefir. Go to the Weston A. Price Foundation for more info! www.westonaprice.org or www.realmilk.com to find raw milk availability in your state.
~Melissa, in MD :)
~Melissa, in MD :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Karen Swanay
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] OT I guess
Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more than
a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
truth, I come here.
Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
"general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And while
I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any experiments
with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-identical
to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.74/2339 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Gray
Being in an allergy support group, I know several families who use
soy and rice milk as a replacement for cow's milk. None of the kids
have precocious puberty...I've read similar articles before, but I
haven't seen anything that's just convinced me that we're poisoning
our kids with soy. We use a lot of soy milk because we have several
kids who are allergic to milk proteins or sugars (and yep, we do
react to raw milk, and milk that's been cooked)
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel, Avari, and
baby Nathan!
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
soy and rice milk as a replacement for cow's milk. None of the kids
have precocious puberty...I've read similar articles before, but I
haven't seen anything that's just convinced me that we're poisoning
our kids with soy. We use a lot of soy milk because we have several
kids who are allergic to milk proteins or sugars (and yep, we do
react to raw milk, and milk that's been cooked)
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel, Avari, and
baby Nathan!
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On Sep 1, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Karen Swanay wrote:
> Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are
> more than
> a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question
> and I'd
> like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when
> I want
> truth, I come here.
>
> Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from
> China. She
> was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
> "general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant.
> And while
> I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any
> experiments
> with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake)
> results in
> serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she
> loves.
> THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-
> identical
> to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
>
> Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing
> precocious
> puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
> Karen
> "I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to
> understand."
> ~Arthur Hertzberg
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
I raw feed my dogs, and you can find people that will say it will kill dogs
to eat raw bone and meat (and often hair and feathers) but it won't. The
"studies" that show this is problematic are funded by Science Diet and
Purina so of course the studies say that! So that's why I lift my eyebrow
at some of this "soy makes the sky fall" stuff because just who paid for
that study?
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
to eat raw bone and meat (and often hair and feathers) but it won't. The
"studies" that show this is problematic are funded by Science Diet and
Purina so of course the studies say that! So that's why I lift my eyebrow
at some of this "soy makes the sky fall" stuff because just who paid for
that study?
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Melissa Gray <melissagr8@...> wrote:
>
>
> Being in an allergy support group, I know several families who use
> soy and rice milk as a replacement for cow's milk. None of the kids
> have precocious puberty...I've read similar articles before, but I
> haven't seen anything that's just convinced me that we're poisoning
> our kids with soy. We use a lot of soy milk because we have several
> kids who are allergic to milk proteins or sugars (and yep, we do
> react to raw milk, and milk that's been cooked)
> Melissa
> Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel, Avari, and
> baby Nathan!
> Wife to Zane
>
> blog me at
> http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
> http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
>
>
> On Sep 1, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Karen Swanay wrote:
>
> > Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are
> > more than
> > a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question
> > and I'd
> > like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when
> > I want
> > truth, I come here.
> >
> > Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from
> > China. She
> > was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
> > "general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant.
> > And while
> > I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any
> > experiments
> > with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake)
> > results in
> > serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she
> > loves.
> > THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-
> > identical
> > to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
> >
> > Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing
> > precocious
> > puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
> > Karen
> > "I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to
> > understand."
> > ~Arthur Hertzberg
> >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I asked David, my hormone expert, and he said it's unlikely to have any effect. It's more than just estrogen that plays a role in age at menarche. David is saying "Some tissues in your body are more sensitive to estrogen than others and that isn't going to really be the case before puberty. Those tissues can only really be affected once they are ready to be affected...if that makes sense." Soy is a huge part of a Japanese and Chinese diet and I don't think they have different ages at first menstruation to other industrial countries. And actually, as David pointed out, the average American eats a lot of soy. There is soy in lots and lots of food in the U.S.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more than
a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
truth, I come here.
Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
"general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And while
I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any experiments
with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-identical
to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more than
a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
truth, I come here.
Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
"general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And while
I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any experiments
with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-identical
to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
Right we know that precocious puberty CAN happen to kids adopted who go from
relative starvation (in both amount and nutrient diversity) to our diets.
But this is atypical for little girls, much more common when they are
adopted at around 8 or 9. Tell him thanks Schuyler!
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
relative starvation (in both amount and nutrient diversity) to our diets.
But this is atypical for little girls, much more common when they are
adopted at around 8 or 9. Tell him thanks Schuyler!
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>wrote:
>
>
> I asked David, my hormone expert, and he said it's unlikely to have any
> effect. It's more than just estrogen that plays a role in age at menarche.
> David is saying "Some tissues in your body are more sensitive to estrogen
> than others and that isn't going to really be the case before puberty. Those
> tissues can only really be affected once they are ready to be affected...if
> that makes sense." Soy is a huge part of a Japanese and Chinese diet and I
> don't think they have different ages at first menstruation to other
> industrial countries. And actually, as David pointed out, the average
> American eats a lot of soy. There is soy in lots and lots of food in the
> U.S.
>
> Schuyler
>
> ________________________________
> From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@... <luvbullbreeds%40gmail.com>>
>
>
> Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more
> than
> a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and I'd
> like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
> truth, I come here.
>
> Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
> was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
> "general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And while
> I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any experiments
> with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
> serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
> THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a bio-identical
> to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
>
> Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
> puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
> Karen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
equinox_autumn
There is a lot of talk about soy and other natural things being health issues. I would like to point out:
*soy has been eaten for thousands of years
*women do not experience menopause in soy eating cultures-they don't even have a word for it.
*these are naturally occurring hormones and those in cow milk (unless you are buying from a farmer you trust) come from a cow who was probably given recombinant bovine growth hormone manufactured by monsanto so that she will produce an unnatural amount of milk. (ironically she will not produce more in her lifetime with it than with out it, she will just produce for a shorter amount of time.)
*bovine milk is made for baby bovines. you did not adopt a baby bovine.
trust your instincts and feed her what is natural, healthy, and feels right for you both.
*soy has been eaten for thousands of years
*women do not experience menopause in soy eating cultures-they don't even have a word for it.
*these are naturally occurring hormones and those in cow milk (unless you are buying from a farmer you trust) come from a cow who was probably given recombinant bovine growth hormone manufactured by monsanto so that she will produce an unnatural amount of milk. (ironically she will not produce more in her lifetime with it than with out it, she will just produce for a shorter amount of time.)
*bovine milk is made for baby bovines. you did not adopt a baby bovine.
trust your instincts and feed her what is natural, healthy, and feels right for you both.
Jacque Valdez
We are lactose intolerant over here and rarely use soy milk only because our
doctor said it was not good for the esophagus but we did use it when my kids
were younger with no issues mind you they didn't come from malnourished
country but we use almond milk and rice milk now and occasionally if we can
potato milk....I think that stuff is a scare tactic brought on by the dairy
association kind of like the docs saying we need so many shots every year
for our kid gotta line those pocket books you know LOLJacque
doctor said it was not good for the esophagus but we did use it when my kids
were younger with no issues mind you they didn't come from malnourished
country but we use almond milk and rice milk now and occasionally if we can
potato milk....I think that stuff is a scare tactic brought on by the dairy
association kind of like the docs saying we need so many shots every year
for our kid gotta line those pocket books you know LOLJacque
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>wrote:
>
>
> Right we know that precocious puberty CAN happen to kids adopted who go
> from
> relative starvation (in both amount and nutrient diversity) to our diets.
> But this is atypical for little girls, much more common when they are
> adopted at around 8 or 9. Tell him thanks Schuyler!
>
> Karen
> "I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
> ~Arthur Hertzberg
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...<s.waynforth%40btopenworld.com>
> >wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I asked David, my hormone expert, and he said it's unlikely to have any
> > effect. It's more than just estrogen that plays a role in age at
> menarche.
> > David is saying "Some tissues in your body are more sensitive to estrogen
> > than others and that isn't going to really be the case before puberty.
> Those
> > tissues can only really be affected once they are ready to be
> affected...if
> > that makes sense." Soy is a huge part of a Japanese and Chinese diet and
> I
> > don't think they have different ages at first menstruation to other
> > industrial countries. And actually, as David pointed out, the average
> > American eats a lot of soy. There is soy in lots and lots of food in the
> > U.S.
> >
> > Schuyler
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@... <luvbullbreeds%40gmail.com><luvbullbreeds%
> 40gmail.com>>
> >
> >
> > Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more
> > than
> > a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and
> I'd
> > like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
> > truth, I come here.
> >
> > Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
> > was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
> > "general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And
> while
> > I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any
> experiments
> > with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
> > serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
> > THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a
> bio-identical
> > to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
> >
> > Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
> > puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
> > Karen
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DJ250
The commercial dairy industry is responsible for the hormones and other crap in the milk. If you find a farmer who grazes his cows ("grass-fed") and can sell you the raw milk, you will be getting a beneficial product rather than a detrimental one, such as that found in supermarkets.
As for the soy, those cultures who consume soy consume naturally fermented soy such as the tofu you find in the refrigerated section or tempeh, etc. It's the processed soy "products" that we have in this country that are damaging.
~Melissa, in MD :0
As for the soy, those cultures who consume soy consume naturally fermented soy such as the tofu you find in the refrigerated section or tempeh, etc. It's the processed soy "products" that we have in this country that are damaging.
~Melissa, in MD :0
----- Original Message -----
From: Jenna Robertson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] OT I guess
:)
Two of my three girls have never had anything other than soymilk, after weening. The oldest has been drinking soymilk since she was about 2. They do eat cheese, ice-cream and yogurt. Non of them have shown any signs of abnormal development. The oldest is turning 13 in October and has experienced typical puberty. My middle daughter will be 10 this weekend and is developing at her own pace (possible consitutional growth delay - meaning she's not growing on the "typical" growth curve, but possibly she got the random short gene that is on both side of the family) and is most likely going to hit puberty later than her sisters have/will, and my youngest is 8 1/2 and is very much on a normal developmental pattern and she has been the biggest soymilk drinker of the three.
The younger two girls have been vegetarians their entire lives and the oldest since she was 2. They eat tofu about once a week.
Personally I'm more concerned about growth hormones in dairy and hormone disrupting chemicals in cosmetics and other products. I haven't found any first hand evidence of soy causing problems.
I hope that helps.
Jenna
"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I would ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life."
- Rachel
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Paul & Camille
Hi Karen,
My daughter was lactose intolerant from birth (and my son is also). She used soy milk - Vitasoy is the yummiest we think at least. She drank it her whole life and she didnt blossom earlier than anyone else in her class/school. She is now 20 and we've seen nothing untoward due to that.
I also am lactose intolerant and I have been drinking soy milk for years, and I havent gone through menopause early - mores the pity ;)
From my point of view Id rather drink a soya bean than a cow anyday ;)
HTH
Blessings, Camille
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My daughter was lactose intolerant from birth (and my son is also). She used soy milk - Vitasoy is the yummiest we think at least. She drank it her whole life and she didnt blossom earlier than anyone else in her class/school. She is now 20 and we've seen nothing untoward due to that.
I also am lactose intolerant and I have been drinking soy milk for years, and I havent gone through menopause early - mores the pity ;)
From my point of view Id rather drink a soya bean than a cow anyday ;)
HTH
Blessings, Camille
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Coffee Goddess
My son who is lactose intolerant prefers coconut milk (not in the can, but a new kind in the refrigerated section, in a milk carton). He says it tastes the best of all the "milks".
Dana
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Dana
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Deb Lewis
***Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
puberty or any other issues? ***
My son grew up on soy milk, tofu and tempeh. He's had no phytoestrogen related problems. He's seventeen, healthy, no moobs. <g>
Phytoestrogens are present in lots of different foods including nuts, rice, oats, and apples - stuff most of us eat every day. *All* plants make hormones. Every plant in your diet contains plant hormones.
.
I'm not worried about phytoestrogens. I buy organic soy products because soy is a pretty commonly genetically modified crop. Some people aren't worried about that. All those "Round -up Ready" people. <g>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
puberty or any other issues? ***
My son grew up on soy milk, tofu and tempeh. He's had no phytoestrogen related problems. He's seventeen, healthy, no moobs. <g>
Phytoestrogens are present in lots of different foods including nuts, rice, oats, and apples - stuff most of us eat every day. *All* plants make hormones. Every plant in your diet contains plant hormones.
.
I'm not worried about phytoestrogens. I buy organic soy products because soy is a pretty commonly genetically modified crop. Some people aren't worried about that. All those "Round -up Ready" people. <g>
Deb Lewis
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Theresa Gailo
Hi Karen,
I could be wrong, and anyone please feel free to correct or add to my research. An herbalist, Julie James, spoke out earlier this year at a Pasadena Holistic Moms Network about the dangers of soy. I know that there is much more to it than estrogens. It can very well not only effect your hormones, but have possible poor long-term effects on digestion, fertility, and thyroid. Soy is a very big part of many asian cultures, but they do not consume nearly as much as Americans do. Americans who consume soy, take in larger amounts of soy than what is considered a healthy intake of soy. Soy diet for Asians used to consist of the more traditional soys such as tempeh, natto, and miso. Much has changed since America's influence of soy processed products. The traditional soy is much better for your than the processed soys, such as soy ice creams, soy milk and soy cheese. Soy is actually really nasty tasting, they have to add a lot of sugar to give it
a pleasant flavor. The key here is to be selective on the type of soy you consume and to try to avoid it altogether. I know it's harder that it sounds. There is soy in practically everything. Also you might want the read the book, "The Whole Soy Story" by nutritionist Kaayla Daniel. Check out Dr. Mercola's website and type in soy for more information. If you're brave I would encourage you to try raw milk. My ex-boyfriend is lactose intolerant and I got him hooked on it. The strange thing is when he drinks raw milk he doesn't get the stomach pain he would get with pasteurized dairy products. There are many beneficial enzymes and vitamins in raw milk that are killed during pasteurization. It even has more vitamin C than orange juice. I don't work for a raw milk company I just love it and it tastes great. If you don't want to try raw milk, the other alternatives would be almond milk or rice milk. Although those types of milk don't
really have much more nutritional value than cow's milk.Hope this helps!
Theresa
I could be wrong, and anyone please feel free to correct or add to my research. An herbalist, Julie James, spoke out earlier this year at a Pasadena Holistic Moms Network about the dangers of soy. I know that there is much more to it than estrogens. It can very well not only effect your hormones, but have possible poor long-term effects on digestion, fertility, and thyroid. Soy is a very big part of many asian cultures, but they do not consume nearly as much as Americans do. Americans who consume soy, take in larger amounts of soy than what is considered a healthy intake of soy. Soy diet for Asians used to consist of the more traditional soys such as tempeh, natto, and miso. Much has changed since America's influence of soy processed products. The traditional soy is much better for your than the processed soys, such as soy ice creams, soy milk and soy cheese. Soy is actually really nasty tasting, they have to add a lot of sugar to give it
a pleasant flavor. The key here is to be selective on the type of soy you consume and to try to avoid it altogether. I know it's harder that it sounds. There is soy in practically everything. Also you might want the read the book, "The Whole Soy Story" by nutritionist Kaayla Daniel. Check out Dr. Mercola's website and type in soy for more information. If you're brave I would encourage you to try raw milk. My ex-boyfriend is lactose intolerant and I got him hooked on it. The strange thing is when he drinks raw milk he doesn't get the stomach pain he would get with pasteurized dairy products. There are many beneficial enzymes and vitamins in raw milk that are killed during pasteurization. It even has more vitamin C than orange juice. I don't work for a raw milk company I just love it and it tastes great. If you don't want to try raw milk, the other alternatives would be almond milk or rice milk. Although those types of milk don't
really have much more nutritional value than cow's milk.Hope this helps!
Theresa
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Jacque Valdez <jacque.valdez@...> wrote:
From: Jacque Valdez <jacque.valdez@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] OT I guess
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 2:22 PM
We are lactose intolerant over here and rarely use soy milk only because our
doctor said it was not good for the esophagus but we did use it when my kids
were younger with no issues mind you they didn't come from malnourished
country but we use almond milk and rice milk now and occasionally if we can
potato milk....I think that stuff is a scare tactic brought on by the dairy
association kind of like the docs saying we need so many shots every year
for our kid gotta line those pocket books you know LOLJacque
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@ gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> Right we know that precocious puberty CAN happen to kids adopted who go
> from
> relative starvation (in both amount and nutrient diversity) to our diets.
> But this is atypical for little girls, much more common when they are
> adopted at around 8 or 9. Tell him thanks Schuyler!
>
> Karen
> "I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
> ~Arthur Hertzberg
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Schuyler <s.waynforth@ btopenworld. com<s.waynforth% 40btopenworld. com>
> >wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I asked David, my hormone expert, and he said it's unlikely to have any
> > effect. It's more than just estrogen that plays a role in age at
> menarche.
> > David is saying "Some tissues in your body are more sensitive to estrogen
> > than others and that isn't going to really be the case before puberty.
> Those
> > tissues can only really be affected once they are ready to be
> affected...if
> > that makes sense." Soy is a huge part of a Japanese and Chinese diet and
> I
> > don't think they have different ages at first menstruation to other
> > industrial countries. And actually, as David pointed out, the average
> > American eats a lot of soy. There is soy in lots and lots of food in the
> > U.S.
> >
> > Schuyler
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@ gmail.com <luvbullbreeds% 40gmail.com> <luvbullbreeds%
> 40gmail.com> >
> >
> >
> > Please forgive me if this is OT but I get the impression there are more
> > than
> > a few "crunchy granola" types on this list...I have a soy question and
> I'd
> > like an answer that isn't fueled by scare tactics so as usual when I want
> > truth, I come here.
> >
> > Here's the deal. About 18mon ago we adopted a 3.5 yr old from China. She
> > was starving and malnourished (among other issues). It's pretty common
> > "general knowledge" that Asians are typically lactose intolerant. And
> while
> > I don't usually like to use stereotypes to make decisions, any
> experiments
> > with giving Morgan milk that is not cooked (ie in a pancake) results in
> > serious bowel issues. SO we've been giving her soy milk which she loves.
> > THEN I come across an article about soy being more or less a
> bio-identical
> > to estrogen and the problems with consuming soy daily etc....
> >
> > Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of soy milk causing precocious
> > puberty or any other issues? Thanks!
> > Karen
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jane Swanson
My daughter is also adopted from China and she is intolerant to dairy and
gluten. We tried raw milk for a while before actual testing and although it
was better it did not relieve her symptoms. I'm not saying that it isn't
worth trying but it may not solve your problem with cow milk. I remember
reading that a large number of people who are lactose intolerant are also
casein (milk protein) intolerant as well. Our daughter's diet changed just
after her 4th birthday. We tried some of the alternative milks (rice, hemp)
but she wasn't into them and really many of them don't have a lot of
nutritional value so we just skipped them. She drinks water (we don't do
juice). Calcium she gets from bone broth, veggies, and a supplement if
needed.
Jane
gluten. We tried raw milk for a while before actual testing and although it
was better it did not relieve her symptoms. I'm not saying that it isn't
worth trying but it may not solve your problem with cow milk. I remember
reading that a large number of people who are lactose intolerant are also
casein (milk protein) intolerant as well. Our daughter's diet changed just
after her 4th birthday. We tried some of the alternative milks (rice, hemp)
but she wasn't into them and really many of them don't have a lot of
nutritional value so we just skipped them. She drinks water (we don't do
juice). Calcium she gets from bone broth, veggies, and a supplement if
needed.
Jane
Debra Rossing
Yes there is soy in lots of foods - and that background level is about
all some people can take (like me). Soy milk daily (as in one bowl of
cereal worth per day) sets off a PMS like reaction regardless of when it
is. But, as someone noted, I'm already past menarche so my body is ready
for those hormonal things. We choose almond milk for our milk usage - we
tried soy, rice and almond and decided we like almond best.
--Deb R
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all some people can take (like me). Soy milk daily (as in one bowl of
cereal worth per day) sets off a PMS like reaction regardless of when it
is. But, as someone noted, I'm already past menarche so my body is ready
for those hormonal things. We choose almond milk for our milk usage - we
tried soy, rice and almond and decided we like almond best.
--Deb R
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Karen Swanay
I really appreciate everyone's input. I'm gladdened by how much everyone
"drops what they are doing" and helps. It's really nice. I guess I'm on
the fence with the soy milk. That's all the soy she gets really. Though we
do eat veggie burgers every now and again. I don't have access to raw milk
since the USDA is trying to keep tight control on that. (My husband is
military and he's out in 5 more years...we are SO moving to where I can have
a small family farm!) anyway, we limit her to 12oz of soy milk a day and
water all the rest of the time. We do know juice causes explosive GI
issues. I'm guessing that's the sugar in it. She won't drink almond milk
(I don't blame her it's nasty plus has a lot of sugar in it.) And I
wouldn't have coconut in my house because the smell is enough to gag me. =P
I don't know if it was this list where someone said that kids will choose
foods they are allergic to and prefer them or if I read that somewhere else,
but I don't believe that is correct. Humans are pretty useless when we
stack our young against the young of other animals, but I don't think we'd
have gotten very far as a species if our young actually sought out foods
that would kill them. In fact I think the "fussiness" that we see in
toddlers and little kids is a function of their selectiveness of palate to
keep them from eating things that are dangerous. I just can't go there from
an evolutionary/anthropological model.
I *could* limit her access to her soy milk, but then again I don't limit the
boys' access to their foods and they could get diabetes from eating too much
sugar etc...so it seems wrong to me to limit or take away the soy milk that
she loves because their might be some connection. And I've read the
studies...and I still want to know who paid for them to be sure of their
bias.
But I do thank all of you for your help. I'll continue to watch her and as
she gets more language skills etc...she'll be free to ask for what she'd
like. Until then, I suppose I feel like I need to limit her ability to get
things that give her the explosive issues because she can't (like the rest
of the family) say "I know this will make me sick, but I'm willing to deal
with it for the pleasure of eating this." She's not cognitively there yet.
Thanks all!
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
"drops what they are doing" and helps. It's really nice. I guess I'm on
the fence with the soy milk. That's all the soy she gets really. Though we
do eat veggie burgers every now and again. I don't have access to raw milk
since the USDA is trying to keep tight control on that. (My husband is
military and he's out in 5 more years...we are SO moving to where I can have
a small family farm!) anyway, we limit her to 12oz of soy milk a day and
water all the rest of the time. We do know juice causes explosive GI
issues. I'm guessing that's the sugar in it. She won't drink almond milk
(I don't blame her it's nasty plus has a lot of sugar in it.) And I
wouldn't have coconut in my house because the smell is enough to gag me. =P
I don't know if it was this list where someone said that kids will choose
foods they are allergic to and prefer them or if I read that somewhere else,
but I don't believe that is correct. Humans are pretty useless when we
stack our young against the young of other animals, but I don't think we'd
have gotten very far as a species if our young actually sought out foods
that would kill them. In fact I think the "fussiness" that we see in
toddlers and little kids is a function of their selectiveness of palate to
keep them from eating things that are dangerous. I just can't go there from
an evolutionary/anthropological model.
I *could* limit her access to her soy milk, but then again I don't limit the
boys' access to their foods and they could get diabetes from eating too much
sugar etc...so it seems wrong to me to limit or take away the soy milk that
she loves because their might be some connection. And I've read the
studies...and I still want to know who paid for them to be sure of their
bias.
But I do thank all of you for your help. I'll continue to watch her and as
she gets more language skills etc...she'll be free to ask for what she'd
like. Until then, I suppose I feel like I need to limit her ability to get
things that give her the explosive issues because she can't (like the rest
of the family) say "I know this will make me sick, but I'm willing to deal
with it for the pleasure of eating this." She's not cognitively there yet.
Thanks all!
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Jane Swanson <swansonj@...>wrote:
>
>
> My daughter is also adopted from China and she is intolerant to dairy and
> gluten. We tried raw milk for a while before actual testing and although it
> was better it did not relieve her symptoms. I'm not saying that it isn't
> worth trying but it may not solve your problem with cow milk. I remember
> reading that a large number of people who are lactose intolerant are also
> casein (milk protein) intolerant as well. Our daughter's diet changed just
> after her 4th birthday. We tried some of the alternative milks (rice, hemp)
> but she wasn't into them and really many of them don't have a lot of
> nutritional value so we just skipped them. She drinks water (we don't do
> juice). Calcium she gets from bone broth, veggies, and a supplement if
> needed.
>
> Jane
>
> __._,_
> .
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***I don't know if it was this list where someone said that kids will choose
foods they are allergic to and prefer them ***
If a parent has restricted foods a kid likes -or thinks he might like- that kid will eat those foods away from parental control and eat more because he'd know he might not get the chance again.
I think if we decided to focus on any particular food and vilify it we could do that. Being afraid of food has more potential to cause life long problems than learning what we like and eating without fretting over every ounce.
***we limit her to 12oz of soy milk a day ***
***I *could* limit her access to her soy milk, but then again I don't limit the
boys' access to their foods ...***
Not sure which thing you do, limit or not? If she's not having problems with soy there's no reason to assume she'll have problems with soy. Stories about other people having problems aren't an indication that your little girl will.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
foods they are allergic to and prefer them ***
If a parent has restricted foods a kid likes -or thinks he might like- that kid will eat those foods away from parental control and eat more because he'd know he might not get the chance again.
I think if we decided to focus on any particular food and vilify it we could do that. Being afraid of food has more potential to cause life long problems than learning what we like and eating without fretting over every ounce.
***we limit her to 12oz of soy milk a day ***
***I *could* limit her access to her soy milk, but then again I don't limit the
boys' access to their foods ...***
Not sure which thing you do, limit or not? If she's not having problems with soy there's no reason to assume she'll have problems with soy. Stories about other people having problems aren't an indication that your little girl will.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
Well at this point she's kind of limited, but it really depends on the day.
Morgan's situation is complex and we are trying to heal more than just body
abuse she suffered. She can't ask (well is asking now) for anything (no
language) but within the last week or so she's been saying a word for "milk"
so we've let loose with trying to limit it. Because she now can express a
preference. I'm sorry about that confusion. It's what I get for posting
before I have the full cup of coffee. So to be clear, when she wants a
drink, and asks for milk, she gets it. If we are sitting down to a meal, we
all drink water and she gets water...unless she asks for milk. But she
usually wants what we are all having.
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
Morgan's situation is complex and we are trying to heal more than just body
abuse she suffered. She can't ask (well is asking now) for anything (no
language) but within the last week or so she's been saying a word for "milk"
so we've let loose with trying to limit it. Because she now can express a
preference. I'm sorry about that confusion. It's what I get for posting
before I have the full cup of coffee. So to be clear, when she wants a
drink, and asks for milk, she gets it. If we are sitting down to a meal, we
all drink water and she gets water...unless she asks for milk. But she
usually wants what we are all having.
Karen
"I argue that the Talmud is about the constant struggle to understand."
~Arthur Hertzberg
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...> wrote:
>
>
> ***I don't know if it was this list where someone said that kids will
> choose
> foods they are allergic to and prefer them ***
>
> If a parent has restricted foods a kid likes -or thinks he might like- that
> kid will eat those foods away from parental control and eat more because
> he'd know he might not get the chance again.
>
> I think if we decided to focus on any particular food and vilify it we
> could do that. Being afraid of food has more potential to cause life long
> problems than learning what we like and eating without fretting over every
> ounce.
>
> ***we limit her to 12oz of soy milk a day ***
>
> ***I *could* limit her access to her soy milk, but then again I don't limit
> the
> boys' access to their foods ...***
>
> Not sure which thing you do, limit or not? If she's not having problems
> with soy there's no reason to assume she'll have problems with soy. Stories
> about other people having problems aren't an indication that your little
> girl will.
>
> Deb Lewis
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:20 AM, Karen Swanay wrote:
1 diabetes (juvenile), they're absolutely sure it isn't sugar. It
might be a virus or auto-immune deficiency. Something destroys the
insulin producing cells in the pancreas.
Being overweight can trigger Type 2 diabetes in people who are
already genetically predisposed to diabetes. But it isn't sugar
that's causing it. It's eating too many calories, too little
exercise. (And even that isn't as simple as it sounds.)
Joyce
> they could get diabetes from eating too muchSugar doesn't cause diabetes. While they don't know what causes Type
> sugar
1 diabetes (juvenile), they're absolutely sure it isn't sugar. It
might be a virus or auto-immune deficiency. Something destroys the
insulin producing cells in the pancreas.
Being overweight can trigger Type 2 diabetes in people who are
already genetically predisposed to diabetes. But it isn't sugar
that's causing it. It's eating too many calories, too little
exercise. (And even that isn't as simple as it sounds.)
Joyce
Debra Rossing
Just a quick note that not all almond milk has lots of sugar added -
it's possible to buy plain unsweetened or flavored unsweetened almond
milk. I love it because it has way fewer carbs than regular cow milk
and, as a diabetic, every carb counts for me.
Deb R
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it's possible to buy plain unsweetened or flavored unsweetened almond
milk. I love it because it has way fewer carbs than regular cow milk
and, as a diabetic, every carb counts for me.
Deb R
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Debra Rossing
Oh and NO you don't "get" diabetes necessarily from eating too much
sugar. Type 2 diabetes is an endocrine issue at heart (type 1 is an
immune system issue). For that matter, sugar is not the main issue -
it's carbs of all types (pasta, potatoes, whole wheat bread, brown rice,
etc). For someone whose system has a tendency toward it, watching diet
is important. But not ALL people who eat tons of carbs (especially
processed stuff) get diabetes just as some whole food eating people
might get it if the genetic tendency/risk factor exists.
Deb R
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sugar. Type 2 diabetes is an endocrine issue at heart (type 1 is an
immune system issue). For that matter, sugar is not the main issue -
it's carbs of all types (pasta, potatoes, whole wheat bread, brown rice,
etc). For someone whose system has a tendency toward it, watching diet
is important. But not ALL people who eat tons of carbs (especially
processed stuff) get diabetes just as some whole food eating people
might get it if the genetic tendency/risk factor exists.
Deb R
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Jacque Valdez
I buy the unsweetened almond milk and since my kids were on the GFCF diet
before there were a ton of pre made things out there I often make my own
almond milk and rice milk. This has been a very interesting topic thanks to
all.
Jacque
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Debra Rossing
<debra.rossing@...>wrote:
before there were a ton of pre made things out there I often make my own
almond milk and rice milk. This has been a very interesting topic thanks to
all.
Jacque
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Debra Rossing
<debra.rossing@...>wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Oh and NO you don't "get" diabetes necessarily from eating too much
> sugar. Type 2 diabetes is an endocrine issue at heart (type 1 is an
> immune system issue). For that matter, sugar is not the main issue -
> it's carbs of all types (pasta, potatoes, whole wheat bread, brown rice,
> etc). For someone whose system has a tendency toward it, watching diet
> is important. But not ALL people who eat tons of carbs (especially
> processed stuff) get diabetes just as some whole food eating people
> might get it if the genetic tendency/risk factor exists.
>
> Deb R
>
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