parenting differences . . .
lidjalynne05
I am just diving into the unschooling adventure. I wrote a few weeks ago about some problems I was having with my toddler and got lots of great support for the solutions I basically came up with, plus some ways to adjust my thinking which were really helpful. I feel like I've made a lot of progress in a one step forward, two steps back kind of way and am excited to be on this journey. However, I feel like my husband and I have different approaches and expectations in parenting that are getting in our way.
My husband is pretty young (25 years old) and had the experience of feeling disempowered as a child, without enough power and without the ability or opportunity to negotiate to get his needs and wants satisfied. He threw tantrums until he was about 11 years old. Pretty wild ones, I hear. He has told me he feels his father was basically running the show, and that however daddy wanted things was the way they went. Now that he is an adult and can do whatever he wants, that is what he does, regardless of how it affects other people. We often argue that he doesn't help out enough with the kids or spend enough time playing with and connecting with them.
Another problem is that he doesn't seem to put the children's safety first. He often brags that he lets our kids do whatever they want, although the reality is that he lets them do whatever they want as long as it doesn't inconvenience him. One example of this lack of regard for safety happened on our recent flight. He was "responsible" for our daughter and I was in charge of the baby. He let our daughter run all up and down the airplane basically alone. He let her climb in the seats and then laughed when there was turbulence and she was shaking back and forth in the seat. He watched her from his seat, which was maybe 5 or more rows away. I think I would allow her to do many of the same things and just stand closer to be there in case she needed support. He is willing to let the kids do risky things from a distance and says if they get hurt they will learn from it and that they have to take responsibility for their choices. He will advise them not to do something and then sit back and let them do something dangerous. There are limits of course, he won't let them go into the highway or something. But it feels to me that he isn't present enough. The only thing I could come up with is that if he isn't being there like I would like, I could just be present myself. We have talked about it and I don't think he sees anything wrong with his choices, and maybe I am overreacting? I am still working at not being too restrictive b/c of potential dangers and finding ways to make dangerous things safer. And I am also working hard not to let what I think others are thinking about me stop me from letting the kids do things.
Here is another issue: my daughter hates getting her hair combed and braided. She screams bloody murder. We have tried giving her interactive toys, turning on the tv, letting her play in the tub, etc., and nothing seems to work. Sometimes it is easier than others, but mostly she just doesn't like it. I wanted to cut her hair. My husband is 100% against it and says we should let her decide. She is less than two. I think her screaming is a way of saying she wants it cut. We have worked to meet all of our needs but are not coming up with anything. Any ideas?
Lydia (mama of Nisa, 22 months, and Yeshaiah, 7 months)
My husband is pretty young (25 years old) and had the experience of feeling disempowered as a child, without enough power and without the ability or opportunity to negotiate to get his needs and wants satisfied. He threw tantrums until he was about 11 years old. Pretty wild ones, I hear. He has told me he feels his father was basically running the show, and that however daddy wanted things was the way they went. Now that he is an adult and can do whatever he wants, that is what he does, regardless of how it affects other people. We often argue that he doesn't help out enough with the kids or spend enough time playing with and connecting with them.
Another problem is that he doesn't seem to put the children's safety first. He often brags that he lets our kids do whatever they want, although the reality is that he lets them do whatever they want as long as it doesn't inconvenience him. One example of this lack of regard for safety happened on our recent flight. He was "responsible" for our daughter and I was in charge of the baby. He let our daughter run all up and down the airplane basically alone. He let her climb in the seats and then laughed when there was turbulence and she was shaking back and forth in the seat. He watched her from his seat, which was maybe 5 or more rows away. I think I would allow her to do many of the same things and just stand closer to be there in case she needed support. He is willing to let the kids do risky things from a distance and says if they get hurt they will learn from it and that they have to take responsibility for their choices. He will advise them not to do something and then sit back and let them do something dangerous. There are limits of course, he won't let them go into the highway or something. But it feels to me that he isn't present enough. The only thing I could come up with is that if he isn't being there like I would like, I could just be present myself. We have talked about it and I don't think he sees anything wrong with his choices, and maybe I am overreacting? I am still working at not being too restrictive b/c of potential dangers and finding ways to make dangerous things safer. And I am also working hard not to let what I think others are thinking about me stop me from letting the kids do things.
Here is another issue: my daughter hates getting her hair combed and braided. She screams bloody murder. We have tried giving her interactive toys, turning on the tv, letting her play in the tub, etc., and nothing seems to work. Sometimes it is easier than others, but mostly she just doesn't like it. I wanted to cut her hair. My husband is 100% against it and says we should let her decide. She is less than two. I think her screaming is a way of saying she wants it cut. We have worked to meet all of our needs but are not coming up with anything. Any ideas?
Lydia (mama of Nisa, 22 months, and Yeshaiah, 7 months)
Schuyler
Sometimes it can make a difference if you see the brighter side of things instead of the downside. He was caring for your child during the airplane flight. I can remember flying to the UK with baby Simon and walking the circuit of the aisles, round and round and round, with him. Linnaea even more so. The flights to Australia had lots of exercise for me. And lots of smiles and excuse us as we walked past people's legs for the 15th time. Maybe next flight you and he could take turns with each child. When he needs a break he could take your younger child and you could do the circuit and the nearness for safety concern. Sometimes agreeing to take one child or the other needs to be renegotiated again and again. Or not, just passed over and switched around. Maybe he sat down and let your daughter do what she was doing because he was tired of standing up. Maybe he needed a break.
Arguing with someone about their lack of care is a sure way to make them feel more and more resentful about the caring they do. I know if someone nags me about something I am far more loathe to do it. And if I do end up doing whatever it was I was being hassled to do, it is with far less pleasure and far more slamming and muttering than I would have done if I'd come to it in my own time and my own way. If you live the life you love and make it accessible and inviting to your partner it will be much more appealling for him to join in than it will ever be if you nag and argue with him.
It is normal to have differences from your partner. Differences that may have attracted you in the first place. He won't ever be the same parent as you are. He won't make the same choices. And the relationships that he has with his children will be different to the ones you have with them. He gets to make those relationships, they are his to make. Micromanaging them won't help him and they won't help you or your children.
About the hair, neither Simon nor Linnaea have ever been keen on getting their hair brushed. Simon used to hate getting his head wet even. So they had tangled hair. Simon's never really tangled that much, but Linnaea still has hair that can be matted at the back and frizzy at the front. I've gone months without brushing her hair. There are occasions when I've told her that she'll be better received if she has brushed hair and she's agreed, and times when she hasn't agreed. I'm willing to take the hit of social disapproval for her comfort. Linnaea never minded getting her head wet, so I've usually just doused her with conditioner and finger combed out the worst of the tangles. At 9 she prefers that it be combed out, although not every time. When she was 2, David loved her hair being wild and untamed. It would bother me, and he would tell me that it was such a beautiful thing, such an expression of her through her hair, like Medusa and the snakes. It was
good to have his voice to calm my fears. Your daughter isn't even 2 yet, I would let her hair be tangled and messy and try and find ways to see it as a beautiful thing than to look for ways to try and get it to fit in with what other people want of her. Figure out how to smile at the dreadlocks. Sometimes that's hard, but when it does work, the joy just bubbles through you.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: lidjalynne05 <princessjasmine05@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 28 August, 2009 2:21:45 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] parenting differences . . .
I am just diving into the unschooling adventure. I wrote a few weeks ago about some problems I was having with my toddler and got lots of great support for the solutions I basically came up with, plus some ways to adjust my thinking which were really helpful. I feel like I've made a lot of progress in a one step forward, two steps back kind of way and am excited to be on this journey. However, I feel like my husband and I have different approaches and expectations in parenting that are getting in our way.
My husband is pretty young (25 years old) and had the experience of feeling disempowered as a child, without enough power and without the ability or opportunity to negotiate to get his needs and wants satisfied. He threw tantrums until he was about 11 years old. Pretty wild ones, I hear. He has told me he feels his father was basically running the show, and that however daddy wanted things was the way they went. Now that he is an adult and can do whatever he wants, that is what he does, regardless of how it affects other people. We often argue that he doesn't help out enough with the kids or spend enough time playing with and connecting with them.
Another problem is that he doesn't seem to put the children's safety first. He often brags that he lets our kids do whatever they want, although the reality is that he lets them do whatever they want as long as it doesn't inconvenience him. One example of this lack of regard for safety happened on our recent flight. He was "responsible" for our daughter and I was in charge of the baby. He let our daughter run all up and down the airplane basically alone. He let her climb in the seats and then laughed when there was turbulence and she was shaking back and forth in the seat. He watched her from his seat, which was maybe 5 or more rows away. I think I would allow her to do many of the same things and just stand closer to be there in case she needed support. He is willing to let the kids do risky things from a distance and says if they get hurt they will learn from it and that they have to take responsibility for their choices. He will advise them
not to do something and then sit back and let them do something dangerous. There are limits of course, he won't let them go into the highway or something. But it feels to me that he isn't present enough. The only thing I could come up with is that if he isn't being there like I would like, I could just be present myself. We have talked about it and I don't think he sees anything wrong with his choices, and maybe I am overreacting? I am still working at not being too restrictive b/c of potential dangers and finding ways to make dangerous things safer. And I am also working hard not to let what I think others are thinking about me stop me from letting the kids do things.
Here is another issue: my daughter hates getting her hair combed and braided. She screams bloody murder. We have tried giving her interactive toys, turning on the tv, letting her play in the tub, etc., and nothing seems to work. Sometimes it is easier than others, but mostly she just doesn't like it. I wanted to cut her hair. My husband is 100% against it and says we should let her decide. She is less than two. I think her screaming is a way of saying she wants it cut. We have worked to meet all of our needs but are not coming up with anything. Any ideas?
Lydia (mama of Nisa, 22 months, and Yeshaiah, 7 months)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Arguing with someone about their lack of care is a sure way to make them feel more and more resentful about the caring they do. I know if someone nags me about something I am far more loathe to do it. And if I do end up doing whatever it was I was being hassled to do, it is with far less pleasure and far more slamming and muttering than I would have done if I'd come to it in my own time and my own way. If you live the life you love and make it accessible and inviting to your partner it will be much more appealling for him to join in than it will ever be if you nag and argue with him.
It is normal to have differences from your partner. Differences that may have attracted you in the first place. He won't ever be the same parent as you are. He won't make the same choices. And the relationships that he has with his children will be different to the ones you have with them. He gets to make those relationships, they are his to make. Micromanaging them won't help him and they won't help you or your children.
About the hair, neither Simon nor Linnaea have ever been keen on getting their hair brushed. Simon used to hate getting his head wet even. So they had tangled hair. Simon's never really tangled that much, but Linnaea still has hair that can be matted at the back and frizzy at the front. I've gone months without brushing her hair. There are occasions when I've told her that she'll be better received if she has brushed hair and she's agreed, and times when she hasn't agreed. I'm willing to take the hit of social disapproval for her comfort. Linnaea never minded getting her head wet, so I've usually just doused her with conditioner and finger combed out the worst of the tangles. At 9 she prefers that it be combed out, although not every time. When she was 2, David loved her hair being wild and untamed. It would bother me, and he would tell me that it was such a beautiful thing, such an expression of her through her hair, like Medusa and the snakes. It was
good to have his voice to calm my fears. Your daughter isn't even 2 yet, I would let her hair be tangled and messy and try and find ways to see it as a beautiful thing than to look for ways to try and get it to fit in with what other people want of her. Figure out how to smile at the dreadlocks. Sometimes that's hard, but when it does work, the joy just bubbles through you.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: lidjalynne05 <princessjasmine05@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 28 August, 2009 2:21:45 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] parenting differences . . .
I am just diving into the unschooling adventure. I wrote a few weeks ago about some problems I was having with my toddler and got lots of great support for the solutions I basically came up with, plus some ways to adjust my thinking which were really helpful. I feel like I've made a lot of progress in a one step forward, two steps back kind of way and am excited to be on this journey. However, I feel like my husband and I have different approaches and expectations in parenting that are getting in our way.
My husband is pretty young (25 years old) and had the experience of feeling disempowered as a child, without enough power and without the ability or opportunity to negotiate to get his needs and wants satisfied. He threw tantrums until he was about 11 years old. Pretty wild ones, I hear. He has told me he feels his father was basically running the show, and that however daddy wanted things was the way they went. Now that he is an adult and can do whatever he wants, that is what he does, regardless of how it affects other people. We often argue that he doesn't help out enough with the kids or spend enough time playing with and connecting with them.
Another problem is that he doesn't seem to put the children's safety first. He often brags that he lets our kids do whatever they want, although the reality is that he lets them do whatever they want as long as it doesn't inconvenience him. One example of this lack of regard for safety happened on our recent flight. He was "responsible" for our daughter and I was in charge of the baby. He let our daughter run all up and down the airplane basically alone. He let her climb in the seats and then laughed when there was turbulence and she was shaking back and forth in the seat. He watched her from his seat, which was maybe 5 or more rows away. I think I would allow her to do many of the same things and just stand closer to be there in case she needed support. He is willing to let the kids do risky things from a distance and says if they get hurt they will learn from it and that they have to take responsibility for their choices. He will advise them
not to do something and then sit back and let them do something dangerous. There are limits of course, he won't let them go into the highway or something. But it feels to me that he isn't present enough. The only thing I could come up with is that if he isn't being there like I would like, I could just be present myself. We have talked about it and I don't think he sees anything wrong with his choices, and maybe I am overreacting? I am still working at not being too restrictive b/c of potential dangers and finding ways to make dangerous things safer. And I am also working hard not to let what I think others are thinking about me stop me from letting the kids do things.
Here is another issue: my daughter hates getting her hair combed and braided. She screams bloody murder. We have tried giving her interactive toys, turning on the tv, letting her play in the tub, etc., and nothing seems to work. Sometimes it is easier than others, but mostly she just doesn't like it. I wanted to cut her hair. My husband is 100% against it and says we should let her decide. She is less than two. I think her screaming is a way of saying she wants it cut. We have worked to meet all of our needs but are not coming up with anything. Any ideas?
Lydia (mama of Nisa, 22 months, and Yeshaiah, 7 months)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "lidjalynne05" <princessjasmine05@...> wrote:
Its hard to know. I used to be appalled at the sorts of things my stepson was allowed to do by his bio mom - so many of them seemed dangerous! and yet the only time he's ever had a broken bone, he tripped over his own feet. Does your dd seem to want more support? That seems like a bigger question, in a way.
That's certainly an option, if you feel like the kids need/want more support than your dh is able to give them. But at the same time, if you are stepping in too often, you are depriving the kids of a chance to form their own relationship with their dad. Its not going to be the same kind of relationship they have with you - it wouldn't be if you were 100% on the same page in terms of parenting. You're different people.
One of the challenges of parenting with a partner, even a partner who "gets" unschooling, is that the other person is never going to do things, handle things, react to things, in exactly the same way you will. At some point, for your own peace of mind, it really helps to accept that.
Arguing with him isn't likely to make the idea of connecting with his children more attractive. If you want to help him connect more, you can look for ways to help him do that - to make the idea of spending time with his children something that makes him feel good. Look for ways to set him and the kids up for success together, ways for him to feel positive and successful and an imporant part of his kids' world. Tell him stories about your days that make him smile. Find ways for him to do fun, special things with the kids when he has the energy to do them. That's more work for you in the short run, but the better he feels about being a dad, his children's dad, the more he'll choose to engage with them. That's human nature - we do things that feel good.
Mo is like that. We've long since stopped trying to brush or comb her hair. For awhile she was happy cutting it (herself), but now she wants it long. If she had the kind of hair that dreds easily we'd have discussed that, but her hair is very fine, so it just looks messy. She's very active, so I suspect it would always look messy even if she combed it a dozen times a day ;)
How is she with scissors? Honestly, my own experience with a very young child cutting her own hair was that she was very very careful about not poking herself or snipping her ears (but couldn't hold still well enough for me to avoid the same hazards). Young kids often don't care a whole lot either way about the length of their hair, but they also don't like adults taking the matter out of their hands. If she doesn't have the coordination to use scissors, yet, maybe she'd like to hold out locks of hair for you to snip at her direction. Make it fun *and* her decision.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
> We have talked about it and I don't think he sees anything wrong with his choices, and maybe I am overreacting?******************
Its hard to know. I used to be appalled at the sorts of things my stepson was allowed to do by his bio mom - so many of them seemed dangerous! and yet the only time he's ever had a broken bone, he tripped over his own feet. Does your dd seem to want more support? That seems like a bigger question, in a way.
>>The only thing I could come up with is that if he isn't being there like I would like, I could just be present myself.********************
That's certainly an option, if you feel like the kids need/want more support than your dh is able to give them. But at the same time, if you are stepping in too often, you are depriving the kids of a chance to form their own relationship with their dad. Its not going to be the same kind of relationship they have with you - it wouldn't be if you were 100% on the same page in terms of parenting. You're different people.
One of the challenges of parenting with a partner, even a partner who "gets" unschooling, is that the other person is never going to do things, handle things, react to things, in exactly the same way you will. At some point, for your own peace of mind, it really helps to accept that.
>> Now that he is an adult and can do whatever he wants, that is what he does, regardless of how it affects other people. We often argue that he doesn't help out enough with the kids or spend enough time playing with and connecting with them.*****************
Arguing with him isn't likely to make the idea of connecting with his children more attractive. If you want to help him connect more, you can look for ways to help him do that - to make the idea of spending time with his children something that makes him feel good. Look for ways to set him and the kids up for success together, ways for him to feel positive and successful and an imporant part of his kids' world. Tell him stories about your days that make him smile. Find ways for him to do fun, special things with the kids when he has the energy to do them. That's more work for you in the short run, but the better he feels about being a dad, his children's dad, the more he'll choose to engage with them. That's human nature - we do things that feel good.
> Here is another issue: my daughter hates getting her hair combed and braided. She screams bloody murder.*******************
Mo is like that. We've long since stopped trying to brush or comb her hair. For awhile she was happy cutting it (herself), but now she wants it long. If she had the kind of hair that dreds easily we'd have discussed that, but her hair is very fine, so it just looks messy. She's very active, so I suspect it would always look messy even if she combed it a dozen times a day ;)
>> My husband is 100% against it and says we should let her decide. She is less than two. I think her screaming is a way of saying she wants it cut.**********************
How is she with scissors? Honestly, my own experience with a very young child cutting her own hair was that she was very very careful about not poking herself or snipping her ears (but couldn't hold still well enough for me to avoid the same hazards). Young kids often don't care a whole lot either way about the length of their hair, but they also don't like adults taking the matter out of their hands. If she doesn't have the coordination to use scissors, yet, maybe she'd like to hold out locks of hair for you to snip at her direction. Make it fun *and* her decision.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
lidjalynne05
Thank you both for the feedback. I think you both made some points that are very helpful. I often do not appreciate what my husband does do and I often judge his behavior through the lens of what I think he should do. I am having a hard time figuring out when to step in and when to just let him do things his way, especially when we are in a situation together and he responds one way and my feeling is different or when we are trying to negotiate something together. Today I suggested that we stop combing Nisa's hair and he was very opposed to that idea. He is the one who combs her hair and he enjoys it. I have no idea how he can enjoy it when she is screaming so loudly, but I think he is able to tune them out when they are screaming. Anyway, I don't feel like I can cut her hair without his agreeing, because that would cause a rift in our relationship. And he wants to keep combing. So where to go from there? Also, if he tells Nisa no about something and I think she should be able to do it? Do I say something or just let him decide? I do believe he should be able to build his own relationship with the children.
Something else that came up today and has come up previously is that my husband likes to go out to eat and I prefer to just get take-out and eat at home because sometimes things get hectic and stressful when we're out. He always insists that we actually eat in the restaurant and says "I don't mind eating out with the children" like he just doesn't care that the children and I can't really have an enjoyable meal out. Then again, I don't consider his feelings and needs as much as I should. You both have given me a lot to think about. Thank you for responding!
Lydia
Something else that came up today and has come up previously is that my husband likes to go out to eat and I prefer to just get take-out and eat at home because sometimes things get hectic and stressful when we're out. He always insists that we actually eat in the restaurant and says "I don't mind eating out with the children" like he just doesn't care that the children and I can't really have an enjoyable meal out. Then again, I don't consider his feelings and needs as much as I should. You both have given me a lot to think about. Thank you for responding!
Lydia
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <meredith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "lidjalynne05" <princessjasmine05@> wrote:
> > We have talked about it and I don't think he sees anything wrong with his choices, and maybe I am overreacting?
> ******************
>
> Its hard to know. I used to be appalled at the sorts of things my stepson was allowed to do by his bio mom - so many of them seemed dangerous! and yet the only time he's ever had a broken bone, he tripped over his own feet. Does your dd seem to want more support? That seems like a bigger question, in a way.
>
> >>The only thing I could come up with is that if he isn't being there like I would like, I could just be present myself.
> ********************
>
> That's certainly an option, if you feel like the kids need/want more support than your dh is able to give them. But at the same time, if you are stepping in too often, you are depriving the kids of a chance to form their own relationship with their dad. Its not going to be the same kind of relationship they have with you - it wouldn't be if you were 100% on the same page in terms of parenting. You're different people.
>
> One of the challenges of parenting with a partner, even a partner who "gets" unschooling, is that the other person is never going to do things, handle things, react to things, in exactly the same way you will. At some point, for your own peace of mind, it really helps to accept that.
>
> >> Now that he is an adult and can do whatever he wants, that is what he does, regardless of how it affects other people. We often argue that he doesn't help out enough with the kids or spend enough time playing with and connecting with them.
> *****************
>
> Arguing with him isn't likely to make the idea of connecting with his children more attractive. If you want to help him connect more, you can look for ways to help him do that - to make the idea of spending time with his children something that makes him feel good. Look for ways to set him and the kids up for success together, ways for him to feel positive and successful and an imporant part of his kids' world. Tell him stories about your days that make him smile. Find ways for him to do fun, special things with the kids when he has the energy to do them. That's more work for you in the short run, but the better he feels about being a dad, his children's dad, the more he'll choose to engage with them. That's human nature - we do things that feel good.
>
> > Here is another issue: my daughter hates getting her hair combed and braided. She screams bloody murder.
> *******************
>
> Mo is like that. We've long since stopped trying to brush or comb her hair. For awhile she was happy cutting it (herself), but now she wants it long. If she had the kind of hair that dreds easily we'd have discussed that, but her hair is very fine, so it just looks messy. She's very active, so I suspect it would always look messy even if she combed it a dozen times a day ;)
>
> >> My husband is 100% against it and says we should let her decide. She is less than two. I think her screaming is a way of saying she wants it cut.
> **********************
>
> How is she with scissors? Honestly, my own experience with a very young child cutting her own hair was that she was very very careful about not poking herself or snipping her ears (but couldn't hold still well enough for me to avoid the same hazards). Young kids often don't care a whole lot either way about the length of their hair, but they also don't like adults taking the matter out of their hands. If she doesn't have the coordination to use scissors, yet, maybe she'd like to hold out locks of hair for you to snip at her direction. Make it fun *and* her decision.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 15)
>
[email protected]
I know it's not PC but DH and DS really do play differently with the baby than DD and I do.
There will be some dangerous looking desk chair ride going on. I gasp and wince. DH and the 3-year-old are smiling and loving it!
Multiply by a thousand different instances and we are just different in the way we interact.
And I think that is a good thing for the baby. I know DH and DS would never do anything to hurt the baby, they just do different things with him.
Could that be part of the picture for you?
Nance
There will be some dangerous looking desk chair ride going on. I gasp and wince. DH and the 3-year-old are smiling and loving it!
Multiply by a thousand different instances and we are just different in the way we interact.
And I think that is a good thing for the baby. I know DH and DS would never do anything to hurt the baby, they just do different things with him.
Could that be part of the picture for you?
Nance
lidjalynne05
Nance, I don't think that's so much the issue for me. I actually play pretty crazy w/ the baby, too, but I am close by so nothing too bad can happen, you know? It is more that I feel when my husband is the one responsible for watching the kids he doesn't do so actively, in a way that would allow them to explore but be safe.
Another example is while we were visiting a friend this week, Nisa was playing with a cat that my friends warned us scratches and bites w/o warning. He gave Nisa verbal warnings and just sat back and let her do her thing. That may have been appropriate for an older child or a child who knows how to play gently with animals, but Nisa has a history of being rough with animals. I went around the room with her, trying to help her be gentle with the cat, and then when that didn't work so well, trying to keep her and the cat apart so she didn't get scratched and bitten and traumatized. In retrospect, it would've worked better to just ask my friends to keep the cat in a bedroom or something, given I know that my daughter is not ready to play with animals, at least not with a lot of help and with animals who are friendly. Later in the week she played pretty well with a gentle, older dog. I had asked my husband to watch Nisa while we were at my friends' house because I was watching the baby crawl and making sure he didn't get into anything. When we go to other people's houses, there are always lots of things that babies can't play with or that are dangerous or could get broken, but I still need to let Yeshaiah crawl and play. Anyway, I felt resentful b/c I then had to help both children and it felt stressful and overwhelming given that it's always a bit trickier in someone else's house.
Basically my complaint is that my husband parents from a distance quite frequently, and verbally warns the kids about potential dangers but does nothing more. He even does this with the baby. Sometimes he will intervene after making many verbal commands. Nothing wrong with warning about danger but do something too is what I think.
Now, having said that, I need to admit I am still too worried about potential dangers and even more so worried about what other people think. On the airplane, the stewardess was very angry about my daughter being allowed to roam the plane alone and brought her back to her seat several times and said things to my husband about it as well. At my friends' house, everyone was in a frenzy about the cat and my daughter.
In response to what you pointed out Meredith, I am not sure that my daughter is looking for more support. In some situations I NEED to be there even if she doesn't think she needs support, like when she's leaning out over the pool, or when she's playing in the street. And other times, I probably could step back and let her do her thing. When she needs help, I can tell.
Sorry, didn't mean to write a book!
Lydia
Another example is while we were visiting a friend this week, Nisa was playing with a cat that my friends warned us scratches and bites w/o warning. He gave Nisa verbal warnings and just sat back and let her do her thing. That may have been appropriate for an older child or a child who knows how to play gently with animals, but Nisa has a history of being rough with animals. I went around the room with her, trying to help her be gentle with the cat, and then when that didn't work so well, trying to keep her and the cat apart so she didn't get scratched and bitten and traumatized. In retrospect, it would've worked better to just ask my friends to keep the cat in a bedroom or something, given I know that my daughter is not ready to play with animals, at least not with a lot of help and with animals who are friendly. Later in the week she played pretty well with a gentle, older dog. I had asked my husband to watch Nisa while we were at my friends' house because I was watching the baby crawl and making sure he didn't get into anything. When we go to other people's houses, there are always lots of things that babies can't play with or that are dangerous or could get broken, but I still need to let Yeshaiah crawl and play. Anyway, I felt resentful b/c I then had to help both children and it felt stressful and overwhelming given that it's always a bit trickier in someone else's house.
Basically my complaint is that my husband parents from a distance quite frequently, and verbally warns the kids about potential dangers but does nothing more. He even does this with the baby. Sometimes he will intervene after making many verbal commands. Nothing wrong with warning about danger but do something too is what I think.
Now, having said that, I need to admit I am still too worried about potential dangers and even more so worried about what other people think. On the airplane, the stewardess was very angry about my daughter being allowed to roam the plane alone and brought her back to her seat several times and said things to my husband about it as well. At my friends' house, everyone was in a frenzy about the cat and my daughter.
In response to what you pointed out Meredith, I am not sure that my daughter is looking for more support. In some situations I NEED to be there even if she doesn't think she needs support, like when she's leaning out over the pool, or when she's playing in the street. And other times, I probably could step back and let her do her thing. When she needs help, I can tell.
Sorry, didn't mean to write a book!
Lydia
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> I know it's not PC but DH and DS really do play differently with the baby than DD and I do.
>
> There will be some dangerous looking desk chair ride going on. I gasp and wince. DH and the 3-year-old are smiling and loving it!
>
> Multiply by a thousand different instances and we are just different in the way we interact.
>
> And I think that is a good thing for the baby. I know DH and DS would never do anything to hurt the baby, they just do different things with him.
>
> Could that be part of the picture for you?
>
> Nance
>
Sacha Davis
> Another problem is that he doesn't seem to put the children's safetyMy DW and I have discussed this many times since I tend to take the
> first.
approach that if DS (almost 30 mos now) chokes/falls/etc... I know CPR and
can call 911 (that might be oversimplifying things a bit) and she feels
has a little higher threshold when it comes to safety issues.
I think you have to remember who is defining what is safe. As an example,
my son fell down the stairs when he was in my parents' care about a year
ago and got a HUGE lump on his head. They told me he was "okay" and that
he had fallen down. They didn't tell me that he had fallen down the
STAIRS. As an RN I would want to monitor DS in case he had a head bleed,
because that is MY level of concern around a fall. My parents have a
different level of concern. Because I'm not coparenting with them, I have
simply limited time alone with my son since then because I feel they
cannot be safe around him.
If you are defining what is safe and not safe, then punishing your husband
when he doesn't meet this definition, I feel that's an unfair position to
place him in. Sometimes it's important to swallow your fears and step
back in order to let him be a parent too, in his own manner and style, and
not expect him to parent as you've defined it. I feel sometimes safety is
used as a bludgeon in a parenting relationship because it gives you
percieved moral high ground - do as I say or our our child will be harmed,
if you don't, you're wanting to harm our child.
I can speak from experience that having your partner critique your
parenting on a regular basis in disempowering and does nothing to help you
parent as a team. It does nothing to help your husband see your side of
things.
This doesn't mean he is allowed carte blanche and you have to bite your
tongue all of the time. I would suggest having a serious non-fighting
conversation and for you to prioritize what is most important for you when
it comes to your comfort with his parenting. Maybe let go of the hair
thing but tell him you need to see him be more hands-on instead of
parenting across from the room. This would bother me as well, but not
because it's not safe but because I believe it's vital as a parent to be
present and available until your child starts to actively seek
independence from you at an older age. Ask him what you can do to help
him feel more like part of your parenting team, and be prepared to
compromise.
On a very personal note, as someone who had children 15 years into a
almost 17 year old rock-solid relationship, it shook us both to our core
to have a third person between us that both of us were willing to go to
the mat for, and willing to hurt each other in order to protect our son.
The intensity of love you feel for a child is unmeasurable and can drive
you to hurt the person who you love, have chosen to spend your life with,
have chosen to parent with and maybe have chosen to eventually die with.
As for the cat issue - we are a cat household and our cats have scratched
our toddler son. I explained that was how the cat said "no" and that it's
her right to say that. He learned something about social interaction, got
a little hurt, got some kisses and was really upset that one of his best
pals (the cat) lashed out.
Best of luck.
S.
Heather
I have started a group on the run.ning called choosing school. I know a
lot of talk about school on the unschooling lists is kind of annoying -
so I thought I would start with this(with moderator of the .ning's
permission). My 16 year old has chosen to attend a public charter school
this fall.
http://familyrun.ning.com/group/choosingschool
Group for radically unschooling families in which a child has chosen to
attend school.
Heather (in NY)
lot of talk about school on the unschooling lists is kind of annoying -
so I thought I would start with this(with moderator of the .ning's
permission). My 16 year old has chosen to attend a public charter school
this fall.
http://familyrun.ning.com/group/choosingschool
Group for radically unschooling families in which a child has chosen to
attend school.
Heather (in NY)
Paul & Camille
> Another problem is that he doesn't seem to put the children's safetyI think that everyone has there own way. My DH is certainly different in what he considers safe/borderline for me - however I KNOW without a doubt that he would never let anything harmful come to our son deliberately, and to be honest sometimes the things I have winced about has brought alot of joy and fun to ds, and as Ive stood back and watched what has unfolded it is apparent to me that I would have stopped alot of growth and fun in the process. Sometimes for example I have to look at my own hangups - like heights, a huge fear of them, so when DH & DS climbed up onto the roof I was horrified, however they werent up extremely high and DH was with him and watching all the time, and DS thought it was great seeing from so far up etc etc - I would have NEVER done anything like that.
> first.
If I really felt something was dangerous then I would say something, but usually its just outside my comfort zone rather than anything else.
Just my 2cents worth
Blessings, Camille
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
The cat thing sounds familiar. I'm the "let him try and if he gets scratched the world won't end" person. But I'm also the person who throws the cats outside before anyone else. I'm also the person who removes things that the baby shouldn't be playing with while DH just says "no" and gets more and more upset. And we've been at this a while -- you'd think this would all be worked out by now but it isn't. :)
I don't think there are any "right answers" on things like this. We each have our ways and sometimes things go the way we think they will and sometimes they don't.
Practical suggestion -- probably already mentioned -- lots of detangler for your daughter's hair during her bath and then spray detangler while brushing, not combing.
Eating out -- let him take your daughter alone if he wants to go. Evil, huh? :)
And try to stop worrying about what other people think. Every mother has had a screaming kid in the grocery store and thinks every other mother thinks less of her. We don't. We think you have your hands full and we've all been there and feel sorry for you and hope everyone gets home safe and gets a nap. :)
And the feelings of resentment are not uncommon either. But they are coming from your expectations. How many Moms resent the dirty floor in the kids bedroom? Some get upset all the time, some of us close the door.
See when you can "close the door" and when there is a real safety issue involved. Strangers on a plane -- not a real issue. Running into traffic -- a real issue. DH who needs a gentle nudge to watch the baby while you chase the toddler -- speak up. But nicely. He sounds like a nice guy learning to be a good parent, just like you.
Hugs!
Nance
I don't think there are any "right answers" on things like this. We each have our ways and sometimes things go the way we think they will and sometimes they don't.
Practical suggestion -- probably already mentioned -- lots of detangler for your daughter's hair during her bath and then spray detangler while brushing, not combing.
Eating out -- let him take your daughter alone if he wants to go. Evil, huh? :)
And try to stop worrying about what other people think. Every mother has had a screaming kid in the grocery store and thinks every other mother thinks less of her. We don't. We think you have your hands full and we've all been there and feel sorry for you and hope everyone gets home safe and gets a nap. :)
And the feelings of resentment are not uncommon either. But they are coming from your expectations. How many Moms resent the dirty floor in the kids bedroom? Some get upset all the time, some of us close the door.
See when you can "close the door" and when there is a real safety issue involved. Strangers on a plane -- not a real issue. Running into traffic -- a real issue. DH who needs a gentle nudge to watch the baby while you chase the toddler -- speak up. But nicely. He sounds like a nice guy learning to be a good parent, just like you.
Hugs!
Nance
--- In [email protected], "lidjalynne05" <princessjasmine05@...> wrote:
>
> Nance, I don't think that's so much the issue for me. I actually play pretty crazy w/ the baby, too, but I am close by so nothing too bad can happen, you know? It is more that I feel when my husband is the one responsible for watching the kids he doesn't do so actively, in a way that would allow them to explore but be safe.
>
> Another example is while we were visiting a friend this week, Nisa was playing with a cat that my friends warned us scratches and bites w/o warning. He gave Nisa verbal warnings and just sat back and let her do her thing. That may have been appropriate for an older child or a child who knows how to play gently with animals, but Nisa has a history of being rough with animals. I went around the room with her, trying to help her be gentle with the cat, and then when that didn't work so well, trying to keep her and the cat apart so she didn't get scratched and bitten and traumatized. In retrospect, it would've worked better to just ask my friends to keep the cat in a bedroom or something, given I know that my daughter is not ready to play with animals, at least not with a lot of help and with animals who are friendly. Later in the week she played pretty well with a gentle, older dog. I had asked my husband to watch Nisa while we were at my friends' house because I was watching the baby crawl and making sure he didn't get into anything. When we go to other people's houses, there are always lots of things that babies can't play with or that are dangerous or could get broken, but I still need to let Yeshaiah crawl and play. Anyway, I felt resentful b/c I then had to help both children and it felt stressful and overwhelming given that it's always a bit trickier in someone else's house.
>
> Basically my complaint is that my husband parents from a distance quite frequently, and verbally warns the kids about potential dangers but does nothing more. He even does this with the baby. Sometimes he will intervene after making many verbal commands. Nothing wrong with warning about danger but do something too is what I think.
>
> Now, having said that, I need to admit I am still too worried about potential dangers and even more so worried about what other people think. On the airplane, the stewardess was very angry about my daughter being allowed to roam the plane alone and brought her back to her seat several times and said things to my husband about it as well. At my friends' house, everyone was in a frenzy about the cat and my daughter.
>
> In response to what you pointed out Meredith, I am not sure that my daughter is looking for more support. In some situations I NEED to be there even if she doesn't think she needs support, like when she's leaning out over the pool, or when she's playing in the street. And other times, I probably could step back and let her do her thing. When she needs help, I can tell.
>
> Sorry, didn't mean to write a book!
>
> Lydia
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "marbleface@" <marbleface@> wrote:
> >
> > I know it's not PC but DH and DS really do play differently with the baby than DD and I do.
> >
> > There will be some dangerous looking desk chair ride going on. I gasp and wince. DH and the 3-year-old are smiling and loving it!
> >
> > Multiply by a thousand different instances and we are just different in the way we interact.
> >
> > And I think that is a good thing for the baby. I know DH and DS would never do anything to hurt the baby, they just do different things with him.
> >
> > Could that be part of the picture for you?
> >
> > Nance
> >
>
gruvystarchild
~~On the airplane, the stewardess was very angry about my daughter being allowed to roam the plane alone and brought her back to her seat several times and said things to my husband about it as well.~~
To me, this isn't a safety issue so much as a disregard for common courtesy in a situation where that isn't really acceptable. There are other people to consider in that situation and I know it's really hard to travel with young children but it's not really ok to let a toddler wander on their own on a plane.
Is he willing to walk with her up and down the aisles? Could you have given him the baby and followed her? More options while in the seat could help...there are so many options other than just let a child run free in a place where that isn't such a great idea.
You can't change your husband so being more proactive ahead of time about how you will handle situations might help.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
To me, this isn't a safety issue so much as a disregard for common courtesy in a situation where that isn't really acceptable. There are other people to consider in that situation and I know it's really hard to travel with young children but it's not really ok to let a toddler wander on their own on a plane.
Is he willing to walk with her up and down the aisles? Could you have given him the baby and followed her? More options while in the seat could help...there are so many options other than just let a child run free in a place where that isn't such a great idea.
You can't change your husband so being more proactive ahead of time about how you will handle situations might help.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
[email protected]
As a long term long distance traveller let me assure you that this walking on the plane is a phase. I agree that an adult has to accompany the child. One of the ways in which I dealt with tho get special trip toys. Nothing expensive but little treats that holds the child's interest. But even those didn't keep my son in the when he had just begun to walk. I remember we walked all the way from cleveland to Dubai :)
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
-----Original Message-----
From: "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:06:19
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: parenting differences . . .
~~On the airplane, the stewardess was very angry about my daughter being allowed to roam the plane alone and brought her back to her seat several times and said things to my husband about it as well.~~
To me, this isn't a safety issue so much as a disregard for common courtesy in a situation where that isn't really acceptable. There are other people to consider in that situation and I know it's really hard to travel with young children but it's not really ok to let a toddler wander on their own on a plane.
Is he willing to walk with her up and down the aisles? Could you have given him the baby and followed her? More options while in the seat could help...there are so many options other than just let a child run free in a place where that isn't such a great idea.
You can't change your husband so being more proactive ahead of time about how you will handle situations might help.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
-----Original Message-----
From: "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:06:19
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: parenting differences . . .
~~On the airplane, the stewardess was very angry about my daughter being allowed to roam the plane alone and brought her back to her seat several times and said things to my husband about it as well.~~
To me, this isn't a safety issue so much as a disregard for common courtesy in a situation where that isn't really acceptable. There are other people to consider in that situation and I know it's really hard to travel with young children but it's not really ok to let a toddler wander on their own on a plane.
Is he willing to walk with her up and down the aisles? Could you have given him the baby and followed her? More options while in the seat could help...there are so many options other than just let a child run free in a place where that isn't such a great idea.
You can't change your husband so being more proactive ahead of time about how you will handle situations might help.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gruvystarchild
~~The cat thing sounds familiar. I'm the "let him try and if he gets scratched the world won't end" person. But I'm also the person who throws the cats outside before anyone else.~~
That's the thing...if you know the child does not have the capability to stop, then it just seems cruel to sit there and say "don't do it" and watch them get hurt. Jalen was like this for so long...it was an impulse control issue and that cat was going to end up scratching him no matter what we said or how we tried to show him the cat's cues.
Removing obstacles from a child can be the kindest thing. They can only be developmentally where they ARE this moment.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
That's the thing...if you know the child does not have the capability to stop, then it just seems cruel to sit there and say "don't do it" and watch them get hurt. Jalen was like this for so long...it was an impulse control issue and that cat was going to end up scratching him no matter what we said or how we tried to show him the cat's cues.
Removing obstacles from a child can be the kindest thing. They can only be developmentally where they ARE this moment.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
[email protected]
Correct.
But you have to judge this and we don't all judge it the same way.
And the child may be at different stages during the same day! I know that's the case here at least -- a well-rested fresh for the day 3-yo nephew patiently and gently pets the cat; the same kid wound up or tired -- not so much.
It keeps you on your toes! :)
Nance
But you have to judge this and we don't all judge it the same way.
And the child may be at different stages during the same day! I know that's the case here at least -- a well-rested fresh for the day 3-yo nephew patiently and gently pets the cat; the same kid wound up or tired -- not so much.
It keeps you on your toes! :)
Nance
--- In [email protected], "gruvystarchild" <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~The cat thing sounds familiar. I'm the "let him try and if he gets scratched the world won't end" person. But I'm also the person who throws the cats outside before anyone else.~~
>
> That's the thing...if you know the child does not have the capability to stop, then it just seems cruel to sit there and say "don't do it" and watch them get hurt. Jalen was like this for so long...it was an impulse control issue and that cat was going to end up scratching him no matter what we said or how we tried to show him the cat's cues.
>
> Removing obstacles from a child can be the kindest thing. They can only be developmentally where they ARE this moment.
>
> Ren
> radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>
Debra Rossing
Just as we trust that our kids are doing the best they can at the moment
and that we try to work to see the underlying needs that result in
particular behaviors, we can extend that to our partners and others in
our lives. EMPOWER your hubby, help him to feel confident and competent,
even if it's different than how you'd do it. You'd extend that respect
to the kids without thinking about it. Extend it to your hubby. Telling
him he's doing it wrong and it has to be your way is no different than
the way he was parented - it had to be dad's way, now it has to be
wife's way. He's definitely going to react toward that. In a calm time,
thank him for the ways he cares for the kids and helps you with them and
also perhaps gently express that there are some things that scare you
and you need his help to feel comfortable with (whatever), talk about
what would help you (don't make him guess) and really HEAR his
viewpoint.
I know that the idea of being "worth it", not having to earn what he
wanted, that his wants and needs were valid and valued was HUGE for my
DH - he even admitted that he was jealous of DS' freedom and broke down
crying when he finally realized that HE could have that freedom and that
what he loved and enjoyed was valuable simply because he loved and
enjoyed it - it wasn't silly, useless, etc. It was so healing and
freeing. And that in turn changed a lot of the dynamic between DH and DS
as well.
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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and that we try to work to see the underlying needs that result in
particular behaviors, we can extend that to our partners and others in
our lives. EMPOWER your hubby, help him to feel confident and competent,
even if it's different than how you'd do it. You'd extend that respect
to the kids without thinking about it. Extend it to your hubby. Telling
him he's doing it wrong and it has to be your way is no different than
the way he was parented - it had to be dad's way, now it has to be
wife's way. He's definitely going to react toward that. In a calm time,
thank him for the ways he cares for the kids and helps you with them and
also perhaps gently express that there are some things that scare you
and you need his help to feel comfortable with (whatever), talk about
what would help you (don't make him guess) and really HEAR his
viewpoint.
I know that the idea of being "worth it", not having to earn what he
wanted, that his wants and needs were valid and valued was HUGE for my
DH - he even admitted that he was jealous of DS' freedom and broke down
crying when he finally realized that HE could have that freedom and that
what he loved and enjoyed was valuable simply because he loved and
enjoyed it - it wasn't silly, useless, etc. It was so healing and
freeing. And that in turn changed a lot of the dynamic between DH and DS
as well.
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Paul & Camille
I agree Nance,
If children arent ready, and its age developmental, to pet a cat, then keep them away from the cat - or the cat outside actually until you are able to supervise to give them the idea gradually over time. They arent being bad, and neither is the cat trying to protect itself. And also yes if the child is tired, dont expect the same amount of tolerance from them as when their well rested - or from the cat for that matter, he can be in a grump scratchy mood also and be scratchy of the claw kind :)
Learning that a cat can scratch is fine, as long as the child is old enough to read the signs and know what their doing IMHO. Letting a wee one who is not capable of treating a cat as an older child would, or is not understanding of the needs of the cat and then getting scratched in my book isnt appropriate.
Blessings, Camille
If children arent ready, and its age developmental, to pet a cat, then keep them away from the cat - or the cat outside actually until you are able to supervise to give them the idea gradually over time. They arent being bad, and neither is the cat trying to protect itself. And also yes if the child is tired, dont expect the same amount of tolerance from them as when their well rested - or from the cat for that matter, he can be in a grump scratchy mood also and be scratchy of the claw kind :)
Learning that a cat can scratch is fine, as long as the child is old enough to read the signs and know what their doing IMHO. Letting a wee one who is not capable of treating a cat as an older child would, or is not understanding of the needs of the cat and then getting scratched in my book isnt appropriate.
Blessings, Camille
----- Original Message -----
From: marbleface@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:37 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: parenting differences . . .
Correct.
But you have to judge this and we don't all judge it the same way.
And the child may be at different stages during the same day! I know that's the case here at least -- a well-rested fresh for the day 3-yo nephew patiently and gently pets the cat; the same kid wound up or tired -- not so much.
It keeps you on your toes! :)
Nance
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gruvystarchild
~~Letting a wee one who is not capable of treating a cat as an older child would, or is not understanding of the needs of the cat and then getting scratched in my book isnt appropriate.~~
Or an older child who isn't developmentally capable.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Or an older child who isn't developmentally capable.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
[email protected]
Well said, Deb. And, if he hasn't done so already, DH may want to look for some unschooling Dads online. Just for that sanity check that I think we Moms have in abundance. It might be reassuring.
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing" <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> Just as we trust that our kids are doing the best they can at the moment
> and that we try to work to see the underlying needs that result in
> particular behaviors, we can extend that to our partners and others in
> our lives. EMPOWER your hubby, help him to feel confident and competent,
> even if it's different than how you'd do it. You'd extend that respect
> to the kids without thinking about it. Extend it to your hubby. Telling
> him he's doing it wrong and it has to be your way is no different than
> the way he was parented - it had to be dad's way, now it has to be
> wife's way. He's definitely going to react toward that. In a calm time,
> thank him for the ways he cares for the kids and helps you with them and
> also perhaps gently express that there are some things that scare you
> and you need his help to feel comfortable with (whatever), talk about
> what would help you (don't make him guess) and really HEAR his
> viewpoint.
>