strega nona

Kelly,
I live in Chattanooga, Tn. Sort of on the Tn. and Ga. line. Do you really think there is someone here like us? When relatives or friends ask about our homeschooling and I tell them we unschool and try to explain this they look at me like " Yea, she's 52 now and she is over the hill". So instead of trying to explain it I just say we homeschool and let it go.
 
Pam
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here

mommaohm

Hi, My name is Adele, I'm new to unschooling. My children are 4 and 5
and never been to school. We've always had fun learning through our
play, but when I decided that we were homeschooling I found myself
doing school at home. It took me awhile to realize that I was doing
to them what I didn't want the school system to do. So, I'm now
working hard on deschooling myself. Right now, I'm battling myself.
But, the joy of learning is once again returning to the house. I look
forward to learning from all of you and I can really use the help to
deschool myself.

Adele

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/29/2004 12:08:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, weatherse@... writes:
Kelly,
I live in Chattanooga, Tn. Sort of on the Tn. and Ga. line. Do you really think there is someone here like us? When relatives or friends ask about our homeschooling and I tell them we unschool and try to explain this they look at me like " Yea, she's 52 now and she is over the hill". So instead of trying to explain it I just say we homeschool and let it go.
 
Pam
 
Pam, The folks I know of---one is in TN (that's Karen Tucker), but I don't know where in TN. The other lives in Toccoa, GA. How close is that to you?
 
~Kelly
 
 

strega nona

I've never heard of Toccoa, Ga., so I would think its not close. Dang it!!!
Pam 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 06/01/04 22:23:58
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] intro
 
In a message dated 5/29/2004 12:08:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, weatherse@... writes:
Kelly,
I live in Chattanooga, Tn. Sort of on the Tn. and Ga. line. Do you really think there is someone here like us? When relatives or friends ask about our homeschooling and I tell them we unschool and try to explain this they look at me like " Yea, she's 52 now and she is over the hill". So instead of trying to explain it I just say we homeschool and let it go.
 
Pam
 
Pam, The folks I know of---one is in TN (that's Karen Tucker), but I don't know where in TN. The other lives in Toccoa, GA. How close is that to you?
 
~Kelly
 
 

 
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  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here

Dina Fraize

hi all

my name is dina and i am mom to justin 21, ryan 17,
samuel 8, Joshua 5 and Gabriel 3. We live in mass.
and i am very interested in another connection for
unschoolers. I always love to hear how things work in
others homes and the challenges and pleasures of an
unschooling life philosophy.

have a great 4th of july everyone

love and peace
dina



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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/4/2004 7:43:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dinafraize@... writes:

my name is dina and i am mom to justin 21, ryan 17,
samuel 8, Joshua 5 and Gabriel 3. We live in mass.
and i am very interested in another connection for
unschoolers. <<<<<<


Welcome, Dina. From MA? Will we meet you at the Live and Learn Unschooling
Conference in Peabody, MA? August 27-29? _www.liveandlearnconference.org_
(http://www.liveandlearnconference.org)

I hope so!

~Kelly




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy Varga

Is there an unschooling support group in Mass?

-----Original Message-----
From: Dina Fraize [mailto:dinafraize@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] intro


hi all

my name is dina and i am mom to justin 21, ryan 17,
samuel 8, Joshua 5 and Gabriel 3. We live in mass.
and i am very interested in another connection for
unschoolers. I always love to hear how things work in
others homes and the challenges and pleasures of an
unschooling life philosophy.

have a great 4th of july everyone

love and peace
dina



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Yahoo! Groups Links

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/4/2004 11:58:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
blvarga@... writes:

Is there an unschooling support group in Mass?



<<<<

Home of John Holt, MA is a HOTBED of unschooling!

Joyce, Kathryn, Rue, and Maureen (among others) all live there. The
Unschooling Conference will be held there this year (August 27-29).

Hotbed!

~Kelly




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hi everybody! My name is Leslie, sometimes regular to unschooling.com and
I've been to the two SC Live and Learn Conferences. I have a 7 YO son and a 4
YO girl and have been unschooling for a couple of years.

I owe so much to the unschoolers on this list for helping me get past my
worries and living this joyful life. It is amazing to me how much
de-programming I need sometimes.

I look forward to being a part of this list,
Leslie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon and Rue Kream

>>My name is Leslie, sometimes regular to unschooling.com

**Have you been suffering from message board withdrawal the past few weeks?
Poor Dagny (dd) is finding it very traumatic.

Welcome to the list :0). ~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

**Have you been suffering from message board withdrawal the past few weeks?
Poor Dagny (dd) is finding it very traumatic.***

I hadn't been on for quite awhile since I was in the middle of moving. I
decided to check in and...no boards! Ack!

What's the story anyway?

What a cool thing for kids (when it's working). Hope it's up soon for
Dagny's sake!

Leslie (is there more than one?) in SC





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon and Rue Kream

>>What's the story anyway?

**I'm not exactly sure. Sounds like they're working on it, though.

>>What a cool thing for kids (when it's working).

**It is cool.

>>Leslie (is there more than one?)

**Yes, there are others. I haven't seen any others in SC, though, so that
should work :0). ~Rue


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Ren Allen

"Although, she watched
Shrek 2 five times in two days~someone tell me that's okay!!!"

It's ok.:)
My kids have watched it at least 10x in three days, so I think we've
got her beat. Humour, good music, fantastic voices (Antonio Banderas
is yummy) and plenty of magic...sounds like learning to me.
It's all good.

Ren

huntmom1996

> It's ok.:)
> My kids have watched it at least 10x in three days, so I think
we've
> got her beat. Humour, good music, fantastic voices (Antonio
Banderas
> is yummy) and plenty of magic...sounds like learning to me.
> It's all good.
>
> Ren

Thanks!

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/9/2004 10:17:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wordshop@... writes:

I wonder how it is for other unschoolers with just one child at home.
I wonder if I dropped making her do the schooly bits if she would want
to read and write soon? (If she could read herself, a world of books
would be avail to her all day long = less need for other kids).
Greetings from down under
Angela<<<

Again, I apologize for not responding earlier. In box is quite full of
things I wanted to atlk about but haven't yet.

Angela, I have two boys, but basically, they're two onlys. They are eight
years apart.

THey each have their own sets of friends. I AM the taxi, playmate, reader,
---everything to my eight years old---as I was for my 16 year old. But they
both have friends, and I get them over here----or taxi mine over there as often
as possible.

Unschooling MEANS not forcing the reading and writing. It's not forcing
anything! If you were to give up the forced reading and writing, she probably
WILL avoid it for all she's worth for several months or more. But she'd come
back when it started to mean something to her----when she started to need those
things for information or communication.

Back off. Let her explore. Get books on tape or Jim Weiss' stories on CD.
Let her HEAR great literature and storytelling while she's playing with dolls or
tickling the dog or building with Legos. The world of books could be open to
her NOW----through tapes and DCs, if *you're* willing! <G> Just because she
can't read doesn't mean that books aren't available to her----or shouldn't
be available to her!

~Kelly





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Angela White

> Back off. Let her explore. Get books on tape or Jim Weiss' stories on
> CD. 
> Let her HEAR great literature and storytelling while she's playing
> with dolls or
> tickling the dog or building with Legos. The world of books could be
> open to
> her  NOW----through tapes and DCs, if *you're* willing!  <G> Just
> because she
> can't read doesn't mean that books aren't  available to her----or
> shouldn't
> be available to her!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
Thanks, Kelly,for your encouragement. In the end, the only way to find
out is by doing it. So I've just thought about the 'worst case
scenario' if I stop pushing her to write. Well, I have no doubt that
she will want to learn to write at some stage, so the only risk is that
she is 'behind' for a while. Not much of a risk, when I think about
it...
My 14yo dd loves doing art and writing fiction novels and I never told
her to do it, just goes to prove it, doesn't it. Things have already
improved. She's happy now to stay at her friends' place so the 'child
swap thing' can start now. We love our time together and I read lots
and lots to her. And now that I will stop spending my precious time
pushing her to do things she doesn't want to do, we will finally have
time to do the things we really want to do, like the sugar crystal
experiment that came from Robert Krampf last week. Today she asked me
again about fungi so we can spend out time learning about that now. She
is so interested in finding out about the world around her at this age,
better make the most of it. I've learnt more in the way of science in
this year of hs her than I've learned in all my life so far, just by
looking up her questions....

I haven't come across Jim Weiss stories, what is that about?

Also, has anyone read John Holt's book on how he learned the cello the
Suzuki way? I'm wondering if the Suzuki way today is still how it was
originally?

Thanks for the long list of books and info you posted in the other
intro mail.
Angela

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Ren Allen

"Well, I have no doubt that
she will want to learn to write at some stage, so the only risk is
that
she is 'behind' for a while. Not much of a risk, when I think about
it..."

Are you "behind" me because you don't own your own unschooling list?
No.
Am I "behind" you because you know things I might not know?
No.
Is any adult considered "behind" because one is great with numbers
and logic and another is fabulous with color and design?
Of course not.
"Behind" is a ridiculous notion, only used in the bizarre setting of
school. There is no behind or ahead in the real world. Only being
who you are. We all have different skills, different interests,
different capabilities in our use of language and just about every
other topic or subject.
Who cares?
That's the beauty of human beings...we are all DIFFERENT!!:)
That's a good thing in life.

Stop thinking of her as "ahead" or "behind" anyone else. She's just
being HER. If her reading or writing skills are less than another
person, who cares? If she's a lot better than another human, it
matters not.
What matters is that she is living the life of her choosing, doing
that which she loves. THAT is what leads to true success in this
life.

I have a two year old staying in my house right now. He can read
ANYTHING. I am not exaggerating when I tell you he reads better than
my 7 year old (who is an avid reader and writer). She was trying to
read him a story a couple nights ago, and he was helping her out
with the words she couldn't read throughout the entire book. She
laughed and said "Will is helping me read Mama."
It didn't matter that he was "ahead" according to some school
schedule, or that she was 7 and not able to read like this child.
They were just friends, having fun together and doing what they
could do.
My 11 year old is just starting to read. Both my 7 y.o. dd and our
little 2y.o. friend are reading more than him. It doesn't matter.
Jared is confident in himself, knows the things he loves and learns
with joy. Isn't that more important than some false time table?
I say YES.

Ren

[email protected]

There's a poem in the current issue of Live Free, Learn Free by a teen called
Forced to Write. It starts:

I can not write,
When under command
My work would be cold, empty,
Written in false hands.

Like wax, shoved in a mold
Or an assignment,
Returned to a teacher
Done only for the grade.
Do not tell me what to write,
Nor when
About what
For whom.
It would be cold, empty,
Written in false hands...

Deborah in IL


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Angela White

Thanks for sharing. Yes, it is so true. I googled the magazine but
couldn't find anything that fittet. Can you give me a contact?
Angela


On 19/11/2004, at 7:46 PM, DACunefare@... wrote:

> There's a poem in the current issue of Live Free, Learn Free by a teen
> called
> Forced to Write. It starts:
>
> I can not write,
> When under command
> My work would be cold, empty,
> Written in false hands.
>
> Like wax, shoved in a mold
> Or an assignment,
> Returned to a teacher
> Done only for the grade.
> Do not tell me what to write,
> Nor when
> About what
> For whom.
> It would be cold, empty,
> Written in false hands...
>
> Deborah in IL
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TreeGoddess

On Nov 19, 2004, at 2:10 AM, Angela White wrote:

> Thanks for sharing. Yes, it is so true. I googled the magazine but
> couldn't find anything that fittet. Can you give me a contact?

http://www.livefreelearnfree.com

-Tracy-

"Every moment spent in unhappiness is a moment of
happiness lost." -- Leo Buscaglia

Robyn Coburn

www.livefreelearnfree.com

I get it. It's just like having a chat with a bunch of my online friends
here.

Robyn L. Coburn

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Ren Allen

"But, you know how I feel...like dancing in the wind with the fall
leaves,
set free, spinning...>>>>>"

I love this!! Thanks for sharing....beautiful.

Ren

Angela White

So for a week now I have finally left my nearly 6yo dd alone and our
time together has been much more fun and pleasant. It is so draining to
try and make someone do something they don't want to do. I also really
know now from experiencing it again and again that teaching her is the
wrong thing to do. It kills the fun for her every time. So thanks for
your encouragement to help me take the plunge.

I have a question re coming to a consensus in the family. I want to
move to another part of NZ to where I believe is a bigger hs group with
hopefully more unschoolers (here are none). Also, I think we would find
more friends for my dd to play with and I might find a few more for
myself. My dh is open to the idea although he is apprehensive about
teaching in a new school (he's a high school teacher, but don't judge
him by that) but willing to take the risk. My 14yo dd however doesn't
want to move at all. She says that it will take ages finding new
friends, if she'd find any at all and she is happy here. She attends
high school and likes it for the social life. She doesn't want to home
school. She'll finish school in 4 yrs. I don't really feel ok about
just doing what I think will be beneficial for myself and 5yodd
without having both dh and older dd on board. But waiting another 4 yrs
is a long time .... Of course I don't know for sure if a move would be
making life better, it's all guess work. I have a friend living where
I'd want to go and have thought of going over for 3 month just with the
girls for a trial, but my older dd doesn't want to. I could go over
just for a month and suss things out for myself and 5yodd but of course
that still leaves older dd against it. Any ideas on this anyone?
Angela

Angela S

My dh grew up in a family that moved every couple years. It was very
difficult for him. The hardest move of all of them was the move they made
just before he entered high school. I would think that would be a very
difficult time to move and I would think that you might very well alienate
your older dd by not taking her needs into consideration. Perhaps you could
continue to seek out regular homeschoolers in your area and maybe you'll be
surprised to find some relaxed ones who just need a little knowledge about
unschooling and some real life support to make that leap.Or at least you
might find some that are gentle parents. I guess before I made a decision
like that that might adversely affect other members of my family, I'd make
sure I exhausted every possibility to find and make friends in the area that
you are in. (not to say you haven't already.)







Angela ~ Maine

game-enthusiast@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> I could go over
> just for a month and suss things out for myself and 5yodd but of course
> that still leaves older dd against it. Any ideas on this anyone?

This is what a very wise friend told me once, "Sometimes one member of the family must give up or do something that they don't want for the benefit of the entire family." The thing to figure out is who in your situation is sacrficing something. Is it your desire to be in a more open homeschooling community or your older dd who will have to make new friends? Your older dd moving has 4 years of high school left. I'm quite sure that in that amount of time that she could indeed find many new friends. You, your younger dd and your dh would have to do the same thing as well.

You didn't say how far away this new town is, but knowing the size of NZ, it isn't huge so a periodic trip back to visit her best friends probably wouldn't be that difficult, would it? And if it is the social aspect of high school that she enjoys, then perhaps finding out about those social interactions at her new school might make things easier for her. And sometimes, although it seems cruel, parents make decisions for a family that not all members are happy about at the beginning.

Is this a for sure able to do thing? I would presume that your dh would need to find a job first and then you would move? Or could your family risk moving without finding a job first? (I know there is a teacher shortage here, but I don't recommend moving here - I want to move *there* LOL!)

Good luck with your decision!
Michelle

SimplyFaith2002

Personally, I think I'd make it a point to go there on vacation, as a family. That way, DH could check out the schools and get an idea of what is available to him. You would get to get an idea of what groups are where, and maybe even spend some time with them to get an idea of which groups you would care to join. The girls would get an opportunity to meet some of the kids in the area, and maybe your oldest dd would meet a friend she could keep in touch with to make it a smoother transition if you choose to move. Something to keep in mind if your oldest dd is still against it...While I understand that it may not seem 'right' to make a choice beneficial to all but her, it's also not right to choose on the basis of what feels right to just her either, that's going to be at the cross-road no matter which way you decide, unfortunately.
My oldest son also attends school at the high school here. His choice. But I am learning not to allow his choice hinder the opportunities out there for my younger two at home either. We do as much as we can when he is with us , but lets face it - we do some pretty cool stuff in the name of 'school' here, lol. He seems jealous some times that his younger Sib's have the time and opportunities to explore their curiosities, but that was his decision also - kwim?
Good luck, and best wishes.
Patty

Angela White <wordshop@...> wrote:
I'd want to go and have thought of going over for 3 month just with the
girls for a trial, but my older dd doesn't want to. I could go over
just for a month and suss things out for myself and 5yodd but of course
that still leaves older dd against it. Any ideas on this anyone?
Angela






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

**This is what a very wise friend told me once, "Sometimes one member of the
family must give up or do something that they don't want for the benefit of
the entire family."  The thing to figure out is who in your situation is
sacrficing something.  Is it your desire to be in a more open homeschooling community
or your older dd who will have to make new friends?  Your older dd moving has
4 years of high school left.  I'm quite sure that in that amount of time that
she could indeed find many new friends.  You, your younger dd and your dh
would have to do the same thing as well. 

You didn't say how far away this new town is, but knowing the size of NZ, it
isn't huge so a periodic trip back to visit her best friends probably wouldn't
be that difficult, would it?  And if it is the social aspect of high school
that she enjoys, then perhaps finding out about those social interactions at
her new school might make things easier for her.  And sometimes, although it
seems cruel, parents make decisions for a family that not all members are happy
about at the beginning.**

Well. I disagree. :) I'd advise against forcing or trying to force the older
child to move against her will. I'd probably even say I think it's an
exceptionally bad idea.

It would be changing her life against her will and from her viewpoint for the
worse, in order to maybe make life better for the younger child. Forcing one
child to forsake her currently quite happy social life in order to maybe
improve the social life of the other child is already not such a hot idea - when
you add the fact that the older child is at an age where friends are often
hugely important while the younger is at an age where many children feel their most
important relations are with the family it looks even worse. I think it'd be
a setup almost guaranteed to prompt resentment directed not only toward the
mother but also toward the younger child, affecting their relationship for life.
I can easily imagine the teen feeling she was being punished for not wanting
to join in this "great" new experiment her mother is engaged in. Ya know? As
well as the obvious feelings of being loved and cared for less than the younger
child.

I don't think this is anywhere near the same as doing cool things with the
unschooled kids while the schooled kid is in school.

14 can be a really tough age to be. I'd not add to the angst myself without
being really really really sure it would all be for the best for everyone
involved. This is so tenative an idea I personally would go very very VERY slowly
at checking it out, thinking about it, making friends via email in the area.
Four years might be a long time but they could seem even longer if you're living
with a resentful teen. :)

On the other hand, I'd spend a good part of the next school vacation there if
I could, especially if I could manage to not set it up as pressuring the teen
to see how great it would be, but just as a vacation and checking it out for
everyone.

This probably sounds harsh. It isn't meant so. Imagine it as a friend with a
very worried tone in her voice. :-)

Deborah in IL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> Well. I disagree. :) I'd advise against forcing or trying to force the older
> child to move against her will. I'd probably even say I think it's an
> exceptionally bad idea.
>
> It would be changing her life against her will and from her viewpoint for the
> worse

And I say, "That's life." Children are moved all the time because the parents decide that moving would be beneficial to the family as a whole (or at least in a majority.) Look at parents who are military who move every 3-4years. Or the parents who do contract work. Or parents who decide to have that mid-life career change. The parents are the ones that support the family and if a move is desired then it is then the parents' responsibility to make the move as less stressful and smooth as possible. Perhaps this would be a non-issue for our family as we have moved several times and our children trust that we will provide for them and ease them through their moving transitions. Moving isn't seen as something frightening or mysterious, but more like another adventure!

Michelle

[email protected]

** And I say, "That's life." Children are moved all the time because the
parents
decide that moving would be beneficial to the family as a whole (or at least
in
a majority.) Look at parents who are military who move every 3-4years.**

I've BEEN the military parent moving, and the military spouse moving as well.
This situation isn't remotely like moving on orders.

I think that taking the attitude of "that's life" in this situation is
horribly counter to the intent of the contemplated move. It's casually dismissing a
child's feelings as unimportant. In search of maybe possibly community for one
member, the parent is contemplating forcing another to leave her already
established community. I'm pretty baffled as to how "That's life" fits into trying
to move toward a more unschooling friendly life.


**Perhaps this would be a non-issue for our family as we have moved several
times and our children trust that we will provide for them and ease them
through their moving transitions. Moving isn't seen as something frightening or
mysterious, but more like another adventure!**

Great! I do hope though that if one of your children mysteriously develops
roots in a place you'll give them the consideration of listening to them and
taking their reluctance seriously, not just dismiss them with a cavalier "that's
life!" Not everyone is able to feel adventurous about packing up and moving
on. I don't think it's a sign of superior parenting or superior intelligence.
People are different. It's good for people to honor those differences as much as
possible.

I'm deeply distressed to hear unschooling parents casually advising others to
simply disregard a child's clearly stated deep feelings about a huge change
in her life.

Deborah in IL


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