swearing...
The Coffee Goddess
I am a life-long unschooler and I don't think I've ever asked a question here, but I have a situation I would like to hear other's thoughts on...
My son is a very preocicous child, and he's 11, but has friends aged 12-15 mostly--he's the kid with bleached blonde and pink hair and wears eyeliner. He was with two friends last week, and, as per his usual, my son was swearing. This is NOT something that in any way bothers me. It is completely acceptable in my house. His dad, who he lives with part time, is also an unschooling dad, but does NOT like swearing. The two friends--one unschooled (but not radically) and the other homeschooled (and quite conservative and from a very authoritative household) told him he wasn't "allowed" to swear (one even tattled to her dad) and they gave him a "time out" where they wouldn't speak to him for 1/2 an hour. He was very upset and doesn't understand this punative treatment by him friends. My ex says our son has a problem and he needs to stop swearing. I say real friends don't punish their friends with the silent treatment (or any other way), should
love him the way he is, and maybe he's better off without them. I say my son is defining for himself who he wants to be, who is a cool, edgy guy who swears. I have offered to help him learn some sneakier ways to swear so that his friends wouldn't be tattling on him all the time, like perahps in Old English ;) (and that makes him laugh and he likes the idea....so I think that will take care of the situation for a little while at least...)
But anyway, what do you all do with swearing and friend who have a problem with it? And any other comments for this situtaion or others similar?
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son is a very preocicous child, and he's 11, but has friends aged 12-15 mostly--he's the kid with bleached blonde and pink hair and wears eyeliner. He was with two friends last week, and, as per his usual, my son was swearing. This is NOT something that in any way bothers me. It is completely acceptable in my house. His dad, who he lives with part time, is also an unschooling dad, but does NOT like swearing. The two friends--one unschooled (but not radically) and the other homeschooled (and quite conservative and from a very authoritative household) told him he wasn't "allowed" to swear (one even tattled to her dad) and they gave him a "time out" where they wouldn't speak to him for 1/2 an hour. He was very upset and doesn't understand this punative treatment by him friends. My ex says our son has a problem and he needs to stop swearing. I say real friends don't punish their friends with the silent treatment (or any other way), should
love him the way he is, and maybe he's better off without them. I say my son is defining for himself who he wants to be, who is a cool, edgy guy who swears. I have offered to help him learn some sneakier ways to swear so that his friends wouldn't be tattling on him all the time, like perahps in Old English ;) (and that makes him laugh and he likes the idea....so I think that will take care of the situation for a little while at least...)
But anyway, what do you all do with swearing and friend who have a problem with it? And any other comments for this situtaion or others similar?
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Gray
Dana,
For us it really depends on the situation. I'm sorry for your son,
for feeling upset, that really does feel crummy. However, his friends
obviously don't like cursing, and if you choose a lifestyle that
makes others uncomfortable, you can't be surprised if those others
don't want to spend time with you. As you said, those probably aren't
the friends he wants. Can I point out that he wants his friends to
accept him as a cursing person, but he isn't willing to tone it down
to help them feel more comfortable?
I don't mind cursing, personally, but if it's contrived for the sole
purpose of being 'cool', it really does start to bother me. My
husband does not curse at all, and is extremely uncomfortable with
it. He won't shun someone who does it, but he doesn't like it at all.
My kids will use a word or two if they are feeling strong emotions,
but honestly don't understand why anyone would use a curse every
other word to make a point.
It's really about what he wants. If he wants to pick something
slightly less offensive and can use that, more power to him.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel, Avari, and
baby Nathan!
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
For us it really depends on the situation. I'm sorry for your son,
for feeling upset, that really does feel crummy. However, his friends
obviously don't like cursing, and if you choose a lifestyle that
makes others uncomfortable, you can't be surprised if those others
don't want to spend time with you. As you said, those probably aren't
the friends he wants. Can I point out that he wants his friends to
accept him as a cursing person, but he isn't willing to tone it down
to help them feel more comfortable?
I don't mind cursing, personally, but if it's contrived for the sole
purpose of being 'cool', it really does start to bother me. My
husband does not curse at all, and is extremely uncomfortable with
it. He won't shun someone who does it, but he doesn't like it at all.
My kids will use a word or two if they are feeling strong emotions,
but honestly don't understand why anyone would use a curse every
other word to make a point.
It's really about what he wants. If he wants to pick something
slightly less offensive and can use that, more power to him.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel, Avari, and
baby Nathan!
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On Jun 24, 2009, at 5:02 PM, The Coffee Goddess wrote:
>
>
> I am a life-long unschooler and I don't think I've ever asked a
> question here, but I have a situation I would like to hear other's
> thoughts on...
>
> My son is a very preocicous child, and he's 11, but has friends
> aged 12-15 mostly--he's the kid with bleached blonde and pink hair
> and wears eyeliner. He was with two friends last week, and, as per
> his usual, my son was swearing. This is NOT something that in any
> way bothers me. It is completely acceptable in my house. His dad,
> who he lives with part time, is also an unschooling dad, but does
> NOT like swearing. The two friends--one unschooled (but not
> radically) and the other homeschooled (and quite conservative and
> from a very authoritative household) told him he wasn't "allowed"
> to swear (one even tattled to her dad) and they gave him a "time
> out" where they wouldn't speak to him for 1/2 an hour. He was very
> upset and doesn't understand this punative treatment by him
> friends. My ex says our son has a problem and he needs to stop
> swearing. I say real friends don't punish their friends with the
> silent treatment (or any other way), should
> love him the way he is, and maybe he's better off without them. I
> say my son is defining for himself who he wants to be, who is a
> cool, edgy guy who swears. I have offered to help him learn some
> sneakier ways to swear so that his friends wouldn't be tattling on
> him all the time, like perahps in Old English ;) (and that makes
> him laugh and he likes the idea....so I think that will take care
> of the situation for a little while at least...)
>
> But anyway, what do you all do with swearing and friend who have a
> problem with it? And any other comments for this situtaion or
> others similar?
>
> Dana
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
morlingfamily
Im very new here and will be very interested in what the long term unschoolers have to say, but this is my opinion for what its worth....
Im not sure how to help your son, other than to let him know that others are entitled to their own opinions also and you cant alter their views or actions other than to let them know that it hurt his feelings when they ignored him. They could also tell him that it hurt their feelings when he swears and doesnt acknowledge that they dont like it. Seems to me that there are peoples feelings getting hurt in both instances and there are always going to be people that dont like swearing, both in friendships and in workplace areas. This is something your son will need to assess for himself and decide whether he is comfortable with the consequences from others outside the home as that is their choice also.
Hope I dont get shotdown for saying this, as I am very new and as I said Id love to hear from the experienced members as I am learning so much everyday from you all :D
Blessings,
¸.·´ .·-:¦:-
((¸¸.·´Camille .·´-:¦:- ~
-:¦:-¸¸.·´*
Im not sure how to help your son, other than to let him know that others are entitled to their own opinions also and you cant alter their views or actions other than to let them know that it hurt his feelings when they ignored him. They could also tell him that it hurt their feelings when he swears and doesnt acknowledge that they dont like it. Seems to me that there are peoples feelings getting hurt in both instances and there are always going to be people that dont like swearing, both in friendships and in workplace areas. This is something your son will need to assess for himself and decide whether he is comfortable with the consequences from others outside the home as that is their choice also.
Hope I dont get shotdown for saying this, as I am very new and as I said Id love to hear from the experienced members as I am learning so much everyday from you all :D
Blessings,
¸.·´ .·-:¦:-
((¸¸.·´Camille .·´-:¦:- ~
-:¦:-¸¸.·´*
----- Original Message -----
From: The Coffee Goddess
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:02 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] swearing...
I am a life-long unschooler and I don't think I've ever asked a question here, but I have a situation I would like to hear other's thoughts on...
My son is a very preocicous child, and he's 11, but has friends aged 12-15 mostly--he's the kid with bleached blonde and pink hair and wears eyeliner. He was with two friends last week, and, as per his usual, my son was swearing. This is NOT something that in any way bothers me. It is completely acceptable in my house. His dad, who he lives with part time, is also an unschooling dad, but does NOT like swearing. The two friends--one unschooled (but not radically) and the other homeschooled (and quite conservative and from a very authoritative household) told him he wasn't "allowed" to swear (one even tattled to her dad) and they gave him a "time out" where they wouldn't speak to him for 1/2 an hour. He was very upset and doesn't understand this punative treatment by him friends. My ex says our son has a problem and he needs to stop swearing. I say real friends don't punish their friends with the silent treatment (or any other way), should
love him the way he is, and maybe he's better off without them. I say my son is defining for himself who he wants to be, who is a cool, edgy guy who swears. I have offered to help him learn some sneakier ways to swear so that his friends wouldn't be tattling on him all the time, like perahps in Old English ;) (and that makes him laugh and he likes the idea....so I think that will take care of the situation for a little while at least...)
But anyway, what do you all do with swearing and friend who have a problem with it? And any other comments for this situtaion or others similar?
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Coffee Goddess
>>For us it really depends on the situation. I'm sorry for your son,for feeling upset, that really does feel crummy. However, his friends
obviously don't like cursing, and if you choose a lifestyle that
makes others uncomfortable, you can't be surprised if those others
don't want to spend time with you. As you said, those probably aren't
the friends he wants. Can I point out that he wants his friends to
accept him as a cursing person, but he isn't willing to tone it down
to help them feel more comfortable?>>
We talk about other people's comfort levels--we talk differently around people we don't know, grandmas, etc....I guess there is more to this story!
A few weeks ago we hosted a giant party of unschooled teens from LIG conference. My son loves these kids and hangs out with them on facebook. They look like my son does, though--dyed hair, piercings, etc, and they talk colorfully as well..... And there were a LOT of them--it was WONDERFUL! I tried to get one of my son's local friend to join the group, although she was shy...She finally was warming up when her very conservative dad jumped in, grabbed her, and dragged her off with some off handed comment about how "It's time for *us* to do MATH!" and they went home...
Now, his friends, when they are around him, *do* use colorful language. On the day in question, his friend with the conservative dad had, just minutes before, announced loudly that some woman was "dressed like a whore" (which I find much more offensive than a "sh*t!" when someone stubs a toe or what-not)--but because she had obviously just gotten grief from her father, she thought it was important to tell on and punnish my son.
It has never been an issue, and they have all said "sh*t" and "damn" around me....so that is why he was hurt and confused by their reactions (his other friend jumped on the tattle-tale bandwagon)....
Does that give a better picture?
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], The Coffee Goddess <hoffmanwilson@...> wrote:
Ideally, good friends should be able to say "hey, I don't appreciate that kind of language/behavior" but that's not always the case! In these other kids' world, punitive behavior is probably the norm. That's not just a kid thing, adults do it to friends and loved ones and think its normal and okay. If your son likes off color language, you could talk about the expression "pussy power" and what in means in some relationships. It may be ugly, but its unlikely to be the last time your ds runs into a situation like this.
That's a great idea!
Some people are uncomfortable with swearing, period. Some people are okay with it in certain situations - my (all male) coworkers will cuss in front of me in the shop, for example, but not when we're all out on a construction site. Weird, but in the shop "we're all friends" and out on site, I'm a Female and Certain Forms Must Be Observed.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
> He was very upset and doesn't understand this punative treatment by him friends. My ex says our son has a problem and he needs to stop swearing. I say real friends don't punish their friends with the silent treatment (or any other way), should*************************
> love him the way he is, and maybe he's better off without them.
Ideally, good friends should be able to say "hey, I don't appreciate that kind of language/behavior" but that's not always the case! In these other kids' world, punitive behavior is probably the norm. That's not just a kid thing, adults do it to friends and loved ones and think its normal and okay. If your son likes off color language, you could talk about the expression "pussy power" and what in means in some relationships. It may be ugly, but its unlikely to be the last time your ds runs into a situation like this.
>>I have offered to help him learn some sneakier ways to swear so that his friends wouldn't be tattling on him all the time, like perahps in Old English ;) (and that makes him laugh and he likes the idea....so I think that will take care of the situation for a little while at least...)***********************
That's a great idea!
Some people are uncomfortable with swearing, period. Some people are okay with it in certain situations - my (all male) coworkers will cuss in front of me in the shop, for example, but not when we're all out on a construction site. Weird, but in the shop "we're all friends" and out on site, I'm a Female and Certain Forms Must Be Observed.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
[email protected]
I will be interested to hear what people think. I have no problem with swearing, but I try to be considerate of other people's feelings about it. They are just words to me. I think it is funny how people think it is okay to say darn or shucks when the intent behind the word is the same.
Esther
Esther
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Coffee Goddess" <hoffmanwilson@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:02:52 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] swearing...
I am a life-long unschooler and I don't think I've ever asked a question here, but I have a situation I would like to hear other's thoughts on...
My son is a very preocicous child, and he's 11, but has friends aged 12-15 mostly--he's the kid with bleached blonde and pink hair and wears eyeliner. He was with two friends last week, and, as per his usual, my son was swearing. This is NOT something that in any way bothers me. It is completely acceptable in my house. His dad, who he lives with part time, is also an unschooling dad, but does NOT like swearing. The two friends--one unschooled (but not radically) and the other homeschooled (and quite conservative and from a very authoritative household) told him he wasn't "allowed" to swear (one even tattled to her dad) and they gave him a "time out" where they wouldn't speak to him for 1/2 an hour. He was very upset and doesn't understand this punative treatment by him friends. My ex says our son has a problem and he needs to stop swearing. I say real friends don't punish their friends with the silent treatment (or any other way), should
love him the way he is, and maybe he's better off without them. I say my son is defining for himself who he wants to be, who is a cool, edgy guy who swears. I have offered to help him learn some sneakier ways to swear so that his friends wouldn't be tattling on him all the time, like perahps in Old English ;) (and that makes him laugh and he likes the idea....so I think that will take care of the situation for a little while at least...)
But anyway, what do you all do with swearing and friend who have a problem with it? And any other comments for this situtaion or others similar?
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Dana,
Here is my take on it. If you liked to swear and had a friend that was offended by it you would have a choice to either restrain yourself while around this friend or risk you friend being so offended that it could end the friendship.
It may be that your friendship is more important to you than swearing in front of this friend.
It may be that this friend feels that your friendship is not worth being around someone that swears.
You have a choice and your friend has too.
My kids can swear at our home but I do explain to them how some people like Grandma is offended by it and why plus the consequences that may come from swearing in front of these people.
I would absolutely tell them not to swear in Grandma's house for example. Its not respectful.
As for the friends giving your son time out that is just how they get it at home. They are just doing to your son what is done to them probably, specially if they have asked your son to stop and he did not.
These all coming from me.....who would make a sailor blush .......
Just read here:
http://polykow.blogspot.com/2008/10/on-fk-roll.html
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here is my take on it. If you liked to swear and had a friend that was offended by it you would have a choice to either restrain yourself while around this friend or risk you friend being so offended that it could end the friendship.
It may be that your friendship is more important to you than swearing in front of this friend.
It may be that this friend feels that your friendship is not worth being around someone that swears.
You have a choice and your friend has too.
My kids can swear at our home but I do explain to them how some people like Grandma is offended by it and why plus the consequences that may come from swearing in front of these people.
I would absolutely tell them not to swear in Grandma's house for example. Its not respectful.
As for the friends giving your son time out that is just how they get it at home. They are just doing to your son what is done to them probably, specially if they have asked your son to stop and he did not.
These all coming from me.....who would make a sailor blush .......
Just read here:
http://polykow.blogspot.com/2008/10/on-fk-roll.html
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elissa
My kids swear, as do I. Alot. I've got a very filthy mouth ;o)
That said, I have frequently talked with my kids about appropriate times and places to swear. While I think that your son's friends not talking to him for half an hour is pretty mean, I also think that it is kind and respectful of other people's feelings to use different language around them. It IS rude to go to someone's house and do things they don't want done. Just because we are freer and more open doesn't mean that everyone we spend time with has to be that way too. They get to choose the principles their family lives by just as we get to choose our principles. Sometimes, in order for the kids to remember when it is or isn't appropriate, I give them a little reminder, "Time and place, Hon."
On the occasions that a swear word has popped out without thought, the kids that object to it have said as much, and my kids have respected that. Yes, I believe they are just words, and should be no big deal, but I don't have to force others to be uncomfortable just because I feel that way. What is it that Ren says? One person's rights end where another's begins?
Unschooling is not a free-for-all where anything goes. We live in a society that has expectations, rules and mores. We need to work within those principles while we are in that society.
Just my $.03
Elissa, Unschooling Momma to Emily 15, and Max 9. Proud Momma to Zack, 21.
How is it that little children are so intelligent and men so stupid? It must be education that does it.
--Alexandre Dumas
That said, I have frequently talked with my kids about appropriate times and places to swear. While I think that your son's friends not talking to him for half an hour is pretty mean, I also think that it is kind and respectful of other people's feelings to use different language around them. It IS rude to go to someone's house and do things they don't want done. Just because we are freer and more open doesn't mean that everyone we spend time with has to be that way too. They get to choose the principles their family lives by just as we get to choose our principles. Sometimes, in order for the kids to remember when it is or isn't appropriate, I give them a little reminder, "Time and place, Hon."
On the occasions that a swear word has popped out without thought, the kids that object to it have said as much, and my kids have respected that. Yes, I believe they are just words, and should be no big deal, but I don't have to force others to be uncomfortable just because I feel that way. What is it that Ren says? One person's rights end where another's begins?
Unschooling is not a free-for-all where anything goes. We live in a society that has expectations, rules and mores. We need to work within those principles while we are in that society.
Just my $.03
Elissa, Unschooling Momma to Emily 15, and Max 9. Proud Momma to Zack, 21.
How is it that little children are so intelligent and men so stupid? It must be education that does it.
--Alexandre Dumas
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Coffee Goddess" <hoffmanwilson@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:02:52 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] swearing...
I am a life-long unschooler and I don't think I've ever asked a question here, but I have a situation I would like to hear other's thoughts on...
My son is a very preocicous child, and he's 11, but has friends aged 12-15 mostly--he's the kid with bleached blonde and pink hair and wears eyeliner. He was with two friends last week, and, as per his usual, my son was swearing. This is NOT something that in any way bothers me. It is completely acceptable in my house. His dad, who he lives with part time, is also an unschooling dad, but does NOT like swearing. The two friends--one unschooled (but not radically) and the other homeschooled (and quite conservative and from a very authoritative household) told him he wasn't "allowed" to swear (one even tattled to her dad) and they gave him a "time out" where they wouldn't speak to him for 1/2 an hour. He was very upset and doesn't understand this punative treatment by him friends. My ex says our son has a problem and he needs to stop swearing. I say real friends don't punish their friends with the silent treatment (or any other way), should
love him the way he is, and maybe he's better off without them. I say my son is defining for himself who he wants to be, who is a cool, edgy guy who swears. I have offered to help him learn some sneakier ways to swear so that his friends wouldn't be tattling on him all the time, like perahps in Old English ;) (and that makes him laugh and he likes the idea....so I think that will take care of the situation for a little while at least...)
But anyway, what do you all do with swearing and friend who have a problem with it? And any other comments for this situtaion or others similar?
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Gray
So, I'm still confused then. It's obviously not what I pictured when
reading the original story.
what I am getting is that the cussing isn't like a big part of their
language and that friends usually curse as well?
But this time, the conservative friend used the word 'whore', and
then later when your ds said something, the conservative friend told
her dad?
So dad was standing close enough for her to 'tattle' to, and she felt
obliged to do so.
I think it's so sad that she needs enough approval from a parent that
she would do that. That she has to hide who she really is because she
fears that her dad won't love her as much if he knows her. and I
think I'd really point that out to ds. YMMV of course, thanks for
explaining some more what was going on. The hurt makes more sense in
this situation.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel, Avari, and
baby Nathan!
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
reading the original story.
what I am getting is that the cussing isn't like a big part of their
language and that friends usually curse as well?
But this time, the conservative friend used the word 'whore', and
then later when your ds said something, the conservative friend told
her dad?
So dad was standing close enough for her to 'tattle' to, and she felt
obliged to do so.
I think it's so sad that she needs enough approval from a parent that
she would do that. That she has to hide who she really is because she
fears that her dad won't love her as much if he knows her. and I
think I'd really point that out to ds. YMMV of course, thanks for
explaining some more what was going on. The hurt makes more sense in
this situation.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel, Avari, and
baby Nathan!
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On Jun 24, 2009, at 6:35 PM, The Coffee Goddess wrote:
>
>
> >>For us it really depends on the situation. I'm sorry for your son,
> for feeling upset, that really does feel crummy. However, his friends
> obviously don't like cursing, and if you choose a lifestyle that
> makes others uncomfortable, you can't be surprised if those others
> don't want to spend time with you. As you said, those probably aren't
> the friends he wants. Can I point out that he wants his friends to
> accept him as a cursing person, but he isn't willing to tone it down
> to help them feel more comfortable?>>
>
> We talk about other people's comfort levels--we talk differently
> around people we don't know, grandmas, etc....I guess there is more
> to this story!
>
> A few weeks ago we hosted a giant party of unschooled teens from
> LIG conference. My son loves these kids and hangs out with them on
> facebook. They look like my son does, though--dyed hair,
> piercings, etc, and they talk colorfully as well..... And there
> were a LOT of them--it was WONDERFUL! I tried to get one of my
> son's local friend to join the group, although she was shy...She
> finally was warming up when her very conservative dad jumped in,
> grabbed her, and dragged her off with some off handed comment about
> how "It's time for *us* to do MATH!" and they went home...
>
> Now, his friends, when they are around him, *do* use colorful
> language. On the day in question, his friend with the conservative
> dad had, just minutes before, announced loudly that some woman was
> "dressed like a whore" (which I find much more offensive than a
> "sh*t!" when someone stubs a toe or what-not)--but because she had
> obviously just gotten grief from her father, she thought it was
> important to tell on and punnish my son.
>
> It has never been an issue, and they have all said "sh*t" and
> "damn" around me....so that is why he was hurt and confused by
> their reactions (his other friend jumped on the tattle-tale
> bandwagon)....
>
> Does that give a better picture?
> Dana
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~But anyway, what do you all do with swearing and friend who have a problem with it? And any other comments for this situtaion or others similar?~~
I think it's not considered acceptable by most of society and children (especially at that age) should be made aware of that. I wouldn't swear in front of my grandmother, who would be offended and I inform my children of situations where it wouldn't be acceptable.
In the work place it is highly unacceptable (I work retail and any job in public work it is usually frowned upon and even a reason for dismissal or being written up) so I don't think it's a great idea to say "cursing is fine with me, so do what you want". We live in a society full of people with different ideas. I think it's useful to choose carefully when our ideals conflict with someone else.
It's not hurting my ideals or beliefs to stop cussing for certain situations. I think it helps grease the wheels of society for people to be aware of what can offend and avoid those things IF it doesn't conflict with your own inner guidance.
I think it's good for a child to be aware of what might bother a parent too. My children know that their Dad can't STAND cussing. I remind Jalen of that fact. It doesn't help their relationship for him to ignore that information....though it slips out because he's eight and still figuring out when/where it's appropriate.
Around friends that have a problem with it, one should be more sensitive/aware. It's not a great thing to encourage "I'll do what I want regardless of how other feel". It's not hurting a childs ability to be-who-they-are or diminish their ability to express themselves to put cussing on hold for the sake of another human. If that's the best way a person has of self expression, maybe they need a few new ideas!
That being said, I personally cuss like a sailor and am not offended by it one bit. I also remind my child when friends are over who don't want to hear it. Before we visited the Grandparents last month I reminded him that they wouldn't like it either. No big deal.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
I think it's not considered acceptable by most of society and children (especially at that age) should be made aware of that. I wouldn't swear in front of my grandmother, who would be offended and I inform my children of situations where it wouldn't be acceptable.
In the work place it is highly unacceptable (I work retail and any job in public work it is usually frowned upon and even a reason for dismissal or being written up) so I don't think it's a great idea to say "cursing is fine with me, so do what you want". We live in a society full of people with different ideas. I think it's useful to choose carefully when our ideals conflict with someone else.
It's not hurting my ideals or beliefs to stop cussing for certain situations. I think it helps grease the wheels of society for people to be aware of what can offend and avoid those things IF it doesn't conflict with your own inner guidance.
I think it's good for a child to be aware of what might bother a parent too. My children know that their Dad can't STAND cussing. I remind Jalen of that fact. It doesn't help their relationship for him to ignore that information....though it slips out because he's eight and still figuring out when/where it's appropriate.
Around friends that have a problem with it, one should be more sensitive/aware. It's not a great thing to encourage "I'll do what I want regardless of how other feel". It's not hurting a childs ability to be-who-they-are or diminish their ability to express themselves to put cussing on hold for the sake of another human. If that's the best way a person has of self expression, maybe they need a few new ideas!
That being said, I personally cuss like a sailor and am not offended by it one bit. I also remind my child when friends are over who don't want to hear it. Before we visited the Grandparents last month I reminded him that they wouldn't like it either. No big deal.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Ren Allen
~~Unschooling is not a free-for-all where anything goes. We live in a society that has expectations, rules and mores. We need to work within those principles while we are in that society.
Just my $.03~~
I agree. One of my talks is about "Freedom vs. License". I discuss the use of the word "freedom" and go on to explain that I like the word "liberty" better....the ability to do what one chooses as long as it doesn't harm another. Cussing doesn't cause any physical harm, but it can really, deeply bother some people because of how they were raised/what they believe etc..
I work within those restraints of society every day. I know many, many people who have different ideas than I do and it's not my job to change their minds. Other people have just as much right to live their lives the way they choose and expect me to honor that, just as they can respect my different choices. There are many times I might choose to ignore their sensitivities (if someone thought it was good/right to spank my child) but the overriding thought is about honoring differences and doing the least amount of harm.
The least harmful thing in my opinion is to simply lay off the cussing around certain people. Good skill to learn if one is going to communicate effectively in our society. Lay a few of those words on a potential employer and I'll be they'll give the job to someone else, even at a trendy place where pink hair and edgy clothes are considered a plus!
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Just my $.03~~
I agree. One of my talks is about "Freedom vs. License". I discuss the use of the word "freedom" and go on to explain that I like the word "liberty" better....the ability to do what one chooses as long as it doesn't harm another. Cussing doesn't cause any physical harm, but it can really, deeply bother some people because of how they were raised/what they believe etc..
I work within those restraints of society every day. I know many, many people who have different ideas than I do and it's not my job to change their minds. Other people have just as much right to live their lives the way they choose and expect me to honor that, just as they can respect my different choices. There are many times I might choose to ignore their sensitivities (if someone thought it was good/right to spank my child) but the overriding thought is about honoring differences and doing the least amount of harm.
The least harmful thing in my opinion is to simply lay off the cussing around certain people. Good skill to learn if one is going to communicate effectively in our society. Lay a few of those words on a potential employer and I'll be they'll give the job to someone else, even at a trendy place where pink hair and edgy clothes are considered a plus!
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Sacha Davis
Hi all. I'm new here and am exploring unschooling as an option for my
2 y/o son, so I don't have an older kid I can talk about
specifically. But I can give my perspective.
It sounds like the issue is not swearing per say (at least with the
friends) but hypocrisy. I think it's totally uncool for them to
punish your son for doing the same thing those particular kids have
previously participated in. I think it's great that your son has the
gift of being able to be honest about who he is in all arenas of his
life instead of feeling like he has to be one thing for a certain
group of people but another for his parents. I say swear away.
As for swearing itself, I personally think there is a time and place
for profanity. I think that overuse of profanity is both lazy and
crude when it comes to our use of language, and this is something
that our children have to come to on their own terms with. It's our
job to teach when and where profanity is appropriate, and how our
words effect others. A "sh*t" when stubbing a toe is appropriate.
Dropping the f-bomb as every other word is perhaps less appropriate.
Being a young person is all about extremes and one of those extremes
is exploring language and its power. Profanity provides power, but so
does a well thought out argument, or a concisely written letter to the
editor. The goal is that they will learn when one can use profanity
and when one best keep one's mouth shutty.
As for your ex-husband, I don't have any insight on that one.
BTW, my mouth is the saltiest at work, but never around my manager.
Sacha
2 y/o son, so I don't have an older kid I can talk about
specifically. But I can give my perspective.
It sounds like the issue is not swearing per say (at least with the
friends) but hypocrisy. I think it's totally uncool for them to
punish your son for doing the same thing those particular kids have
previously participated in. I think it's great that your son has the
gift of being able to be honest about who he is in all arenas of his
life instead of feeling like he has to be one thing for a certain
group of people but another for his parents. I say swear away.
As for swearing itself, I personally think there is a time and place
for profanity. I think that overuse of profanity is both lazy and
crude when it comes to our use of language, and this is something
that our children have to come to on their own terms with. It's our
job to teach when and where profanity is appropriate, and how our
words effect others. A "sh*t" when stubbing a toe is appropriate.
Dropping the f-bomb as every other word is perhaps less appropriate.
Being a young person is all about extremes and one of those extremes
is exploring language and its power. Profanity provides power, but so
does a well thought out argument, or a concisely written letter to the
editor. The goal is that they will learn when one can use profanity
and when one best keep one's mouth shutty.
As for your ex-husband, I don't have any insight on that one.
BTW, my mouth is the saltiest at work, but never around my manager.
Sacha
On Jun 24, 2009, at 4:35 PM, The Coffee Goddess wrote:
>
>
> >>For us it really depends on the situation. I'm sorry for your son,
> for feeling upset, that really does feel crummy. However, his friends
> obviously don't like cursing, and if you choose a lifestyle that
> makes others uncomfortable, you can't be surprised if those others
> don't want to spend time with you. As you said, those probably aren't
> the friends he wants. Can I point out that he wants his friends to
> accept him as a cursing person, but he isn't willing to tone it down
> to help them feel more comfortable?>>
>
> We talk about other people's comfort levels--we talk differently
> around people we don't know, grandmas, etc....I guess there is more
> to this story!
>
> A few weeks ago we hosted a giant party of unschooled teens from LIG
> conference. My son loves these kids and hangs out with them on
> facebook. They look like my son does, though--dyed hair, piercings,
> etc, and they talk colorfully as well..... And there were a LOT of
> them--it was WONDERFUL! I tried to get one of my son's local friend
> to join the group, although she was shy...She finally was warming up
> when her very conservative dad jumped in, grabbed her, and dragged
> her off with some off handed comment about how "It's time for *us*
> to do MATH!" and they went home...
>
> Now, his friends, when they are around him, *do* use colorful
> language. On the day in question, his friend with the conservative
> dad had, just minutes before, announced loudly that some woman was
> "dressed like a whore" (which I find much more offensive than a
> "sh*t!" when someone stubs a toe or what-not)--but because she had
> obviously just gotten grief from her father, she thought it was
> important to tell on and punnish my son.
>
> It has never been an issue, and they have all said "sh*t" and "damn"
> around me....so that is why he was hurt and confused by their
> reactions (his other friend jumped on the tattle-tale bandwagon)....
>
> Does that give a better picture?
> Dana
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 24, 2009, at 6:02 PM, The Coffee Goddess wrote:
languages :-)
http://dragonwritingprompts.blogspot.com/2007/02/expletives-and-
colorful-language.html
I don't even swear but I'm fascinated by new and creative swearing :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I have offered to help him learn some sneakier ways to swear soHere's several sources of expletives and insults in lots of different
> that his friends wouldn't be tattling on him all the time, like
> perahps in Old English ;)
languages :-)
http://dragonwritingprompts.blogspot.com/2007/02/expletives-and-
colorful-language.html
I don't even swear but I'm fascinated by new and creative swearing :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carenkh
OK, yeah, the "more of the story" really changes everything!
I think for these kids it's got to be a *little* confusing, to have a friend whom they like who cusses, and a parent whom they love who says it's a terrible thing, good people don't do that, etc. I remember an uncle smoking pot in front of me when I was around that age - this was in NC in the 70s, so not exactly a bastion of free expression - and I was VERY confused! I mean - people who use drugs are horrible, horrible people! But I LOVED my uncle! It was a few years later that I realized I had been fed lies about drugs, drug users, etc. - which probably made my use of it more certain!
So these kids are still figuring out: What's the truth for me? And they are forced to act one way around their parents, and choose to act another way when their parents aren't there. What's sad is that because of their parents' control and close-mindedness, it will take them longer to figure out *their* truth. Maybe they are offended, but cuss when the parents aren't there to rebel.
I was so surprised when Seth (my 10 y.o.) let me know HE'S offended by cussing! I mean, he's the king of fart jokes, and cussing has never been a big deal to us. I hardly cuss, but sometimes, F**K! fits the bill. If that happened around Seth, his eyes would get big: "I really don't like it when you say that." Oh, oops. OK! So I've gotten better about saying, "Fricken fracken grumble, grumble" and stomping when he's around. I rarely get that frustrated anyway.
Maybe your son could ask his friends how they DO feel about cussing? OK, not OK around them? OK when Dad's not close by? Some clarity from them would be helpful, as much as they can provide.
Caren
I think for these kids it's got to be a *little* confusing, to have a friend whom they like who cusses, and a parent whom they love who says it's a terrible thing, good people don't do that, etc. I remember an uncle smoking pot in front of me when I was around that age - this was in NC in the 70s, so not exactly a bastion of free expression - and I was VERY confused! I mean - people who use drugs are horrible, horrible people! But I LOVED my uncle! It was a few years later that I realized I had been fed lies about drugs, drug users, etc. - which probably made my use of it more certain!
So these kids are still figuring out: What's the truth for me? And they are forced to act one way around their parents, and choose to act another way when their parents aren't there. What's sad is that because of their parents' control and close-mindedness, it will take them longer to figure out *their* truth. Maybe they are offended, but cuss when the parents aren't there to rebel.
I was so surprised when Seth (my 10 y.o.) let me know HE'S offended by cussing! I mean, he's the king of fart jokes, and cussing has never been a big deal to us. I hardly cuss, but sometimes, F**K! fits the bill. If that happened around Seth, his eyes would get big: "I really don't like it when you say that." Oh, oops. OK! So I've gotten better about saying, "Fricken fracken grumble, grumble" and stomping when he's around. I rarely get that frustrated anyway.
Maybe your son could ask his friends how they DO feel about cussing? OK, not OK around them? OK when Dad's not close by? Some clarity from them would be helpful, as much as they can provide.
Caren
The Coffee Goddess
Thanks, Caren....
I hadn't really been empathizing with the friends, who I saw as being hypocritical....but I guess love of friends and love of parent is a toughie for kids this age, especially when their parents have made it clear that their love IS conditional....
I will mention this and perhaps he can have this conversation with them.
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>So these kids are still figuring out: What's the truth for me? And they are forced to act one way around their parents, and choose to act another way when their parents aren't there. What's sad is that because of their parents' control and close-mindedness, it will take them longer to figure out *their* truth. Maybe they are offended, but cuss when the parents aren't there to rebel.>>
I hadn't really been empathizing with the friends, who I saw as being hypocritical....but I guess love of friends and love of parent is a toughie for kids this age, especially when their parents have made it clear that their love IS conditional....
>>Maybe your son could ask his friends how they DO feel about cussing? OK, not OK around them? OK when Dad's not close by? Some clarity from them would be helpful, as much as they can provide.>>
I will mention this and perhaps he can have this conversation with them.
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Coffee Goddess
lol....Thanks, Sacha, for realizing I was asking 3 questions but just worded the whole thing poorly! :D
I *have* been feeling really bad for my son because of his friends' hypocrisy...the swearing one time and the tattling on another. Also, these kids are older by a couple of years than my son, so it felt like they were making him the scape goat of their parents' wrath...
But thanks to Caren's post I am trying to see in a different light how desperate they are to please their parents and keep their love....and I can kind of "get it", although it still sucks for my son....
We are practicing "other" words to use--it was kind of fun yesterday, looking in on-line thesauri, different words to take the place of the colorful language that his friends tattled on him for. We made a really outrageous list (going much further than words he usually used, but it was fun...You can tell what they are!) --bovine excrement, maternal procreation, flying fornication, etc. It was silly and fun and led to cuddling on the couch with the laptop :) Hopefully some of the milder ones we came up to use with his friends (Manure! Dung! Skat!) will smooth over the situation with his friends...
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I *have* been feeling really bad for my son because of his friends' hypocrisy...the swearing one time and the tattling on another. Also, these kids are older by a couple of years than my son, so it felt like they were making him the scape goat of their parents' wrath...
But thanks to Caren's post I am trying to see in a different light how desperate they are to please their parents and keep their love....and I can kind of "get it", although it still sucks for my son....
We are practicing "other" words to use--it was kind of fun yesterday, looking in on-line thesauri, different words to take the place of the colorful language that his friends tattled on him for. We made a really outrageous list (going much further than words he usually used, but it was fun...You can tell what they are!) --bovine excrement, maternal procreation, flying fornication, etc. It was silly and fun and led to cuddling on the couch with the laptop :) Hopefully some of the milder ones we came up to use with his friends (Manure! Dung! Skat!) will smooth over the situation with his friends...
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Coffee Goddess
>>Here's several sources of expletives and insults in lots of differentlanguages :-)
http://dragonwritingprompts.blogspot.com/2007/02/expletives-and-
colorful-language.html
I don't even swear but I'm fascinated by new and creative swearing :-)>>
Thanks, Joyce--this is an awesome site! :)
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
E. Simon
I avoid letting my son play with some boys in a group as they tend to be
mean to him (think a suburban Lord of the Flies)...
I hate to do this as he does need social skills but the hurt pains me
too much.
One on one these boys are 'decent' but they get a mite mean towards him
when together.
The Coffee Goddess wrote:
mean to him (think a suburban Lord of the Flies)...
I hate to do this as he does need social skills but the hurt pains me
too much.
One on one these boys are 'decent' but they get a mite mean towards him
when together.
The Coffee Goddess wrote:
>
>
> Thanks, Caren....
>
> >>So these kids are still figuring out: What's the truth for me? And
> they are forced to act one way around their parents, and choose to act
> another way when their parents aren't there. What's sad is that
> because of their parents' control and close-mindedness, it will take
> them longer to figure out *their* truth. Maybe they are offended, but
> cuss when the parents aren't there to rebel.>>
>
> I hadn't really been empathizing with the friends, who I saw as being
> hypocritical....but I guess love of friends and love of parent is a
> toughie for kids this age, especially when their parents have made it
> clear that their love IS conditional....
>
> >>Maybe your son could ask his friends how they DO feel about cussing?
> OK, not OK around them? OK when Dad's not close by? Some clarity from
> them would be helpful, as much as they can provide.>>
>
> I will mention this and perhaps he can have this conversation with them.
>
> Dana
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
The Coffee Goddess
>>As for the friends giving your son time out that is just how they get it at home. They are just doing to your son what is done to them probably, specially if they have asked your son to stop and he did not.
>>
Alex, the problem is that his friends usually swear as well, and that is why my son was very hurt and confused by their behavior towards him....In fact, they did the same day that they also tattled on him. These are usually friends who he gets along with VERY well, which is why I wasn't there to run interference in the first place (and to clarify, they were not at the other child's house, but at the village green). The whole thing stemmed from one girl's dad's attempt at controlling all the kids his duaghter came into contact with. He obviously told her that she was to alert him if anyone around her was swearing (so she didn't tell him SHE did, but did tell him that MY son did....again, feeling like a betrayal). Also, she is an actual teen-ager, not 11 like my son.
I think the issue is far more about loyalty and betrayal than about swearing....we of course discuss where it's ok to swear and where it's not, who would be ok with "damn" and who would be ok with stronger...I agree with what everyone has said as far as there being different levels of formality in language....but I guess I was more hurt from the situation rather than thinking through what my ACTUAL problem with it was.
Thanks anyway, everyone ;)
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
> I was so surprised when Seth (my 10 y.o.) let me know HE'S offended bycussing! I mean, he's the king of fart jokes, and cussing has never been
a big deal to us
DS is also upset by cussing - IF and only IF it's me or DH. BIL and
assorted other folks, not to mention TV and movies, use lots of
"colorful" language as they say and he basically tunes it out. Several
years ago, DS was just being downright rude to DH and we couldn't figure
out why. So, DS and I went out on a 'date' to be by ourselves and talk.
Turned out that DS had picked up a message that grownups can cuss but
kids can't, so when DH let out a D**n or S**t (** for the spam blockers)
or whatever, it upset DS. We discussed it, how some people are indeed
offended when kids say certain things, how it made no sense to have a
double standard like that (since we don't/didn't have one on that or
anything else really). We decided that it made sense that DS could say
anything he heard us say (since that was the crux of the matter) and
that we'd use food words (popcorn! Nuts! Applesauce! Etc) so that it
wouldn't startle any others when it popped out of DS' mouth. We like to
watch lots of British TV (Monty Python, Dr. Who, Torchwood, Red Dwarf)
and there is quite a vocabulary there - we might discuss a new word that
pops up, what it refers to, etc and we had an interesting discussion the
other night based on words for "vomit" and why they are used and how
alternate words for certain things tell about the culture that uses them
(such as the Victorian reticence to use the word "leg" when referring to
a woman's lower extremities - they used "limb" if they absolutely had to
refer to it, which DS thought was silly since arms are also limbs, as if
women simply floated about on a cushion of air). DS is 11 now and the
occasional S**t or D**n will pop out (like when he gets killed for the
16th time on a level) but generally speaking we're not a "salty" bunch
(which is good because DH is on meds for hypertension lol).
Deb R
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Sacha Davis
You could always try old-timey swearing, dang-nabbit.
S.
S.
On Jun 25, 2009, at 9:09 AM, The Coffee Goddess wrote:
>
>
> lol....Thanks, Sacha, for realizing I was asking 3 questions but
> just worded the whole thing poorly! :D
>
> I *have* been feeling really bad for my son because of his friends'
> hypocrisy...the swearing one time and the tattling on another.
> Also, these kids are older by a couple of years than my son, so it
> felt like they were making him the scape goat of their parents'
> wrath...
>
> But thanks to Caren's post I am trying to see in a different light
> how desperate they are to please their parents and keep their
> love....and I can kind of "get it", although it still sucks for my
> son....
>
> We are practicing "other" words to use--it was kind of fun
> yesterday, looking in on-line thesauri, different words to take the
> place of the colorful language that his friends tattled on him for.
> We made a really outrageous list (going much further than words he
> usually used, but it was fun...You can tell what they are!) --bovine
> excrement, maternal procreation, flying fornication, etc. It was
> silly and fun and led to cuddling on the couch with the laptop :)
> Hopefully some of the milder ones we came up to use with his friends
> (Manure! Dung! Skat!) will smooth over the situation with his
> friends...
>
> Dana
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
You could get Roger's Profanisaurus: http://www.amazon.com/Rogers-Profanisaurus-The-Magna-Farta/dp/1906372322/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245960976&sr=8-1. There is also an on-line version: http://www.milkinfirst.com/dictionary/profanisaurus.htm.
There's some very disturbing stuff in there.
________________________________
From: The Coffee Goddess <hoffmanwilson@...>
We are practicing "other" words to use--it was kind of fun yesterday, looking in on-line thesauri, different words to take the place of the colorful language that his friends tattled on him for. We made a really outrageous list (going much further than words he usually used, but it was fun...You can tell what they are!) --bovine excrement, maternal procreation, flying fornication, etc. It was silly and fun and led to cuddling on the couch with the laptop :) Hopefully some of the milder ones we came up to use with his friends (Manure! Dung! Skat!) will smooth over the situation with his friends...
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There's some very disturbing stuff in there.
________________________________
From: The Coffee Goddess <hoffmanwilson@...>
We are practicing "other" words to use--it was kind of fun yesterday, looking in on-line thesauri, different words to take the place of the colorful language that his friends tattled on him for. We made a really outrageous list (going much further than words he usually used, but it was fun...You can tell what they are!) --bovine excrement, maternal procreation, flying fornication, etc. It was silly and fun and led to cuddling on the couch with the laptop :) Hopefully some of the milder ones we came up to use with his friends (Manure! Dung! Skat!) will smooth over the situation with his friends...
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Camille & Paul
I agree with Caren,
The whole story does make alot of difference. The older kids obviously know their parents well enough to know that blaming your son (who after all is younger and doesnt know as well) will save them from the consequences - which may have been being grounded, banned from being with their other friends etc. With the blame being placed on your son the parents may have given him a break because he was younger, if you get what I mean. I think looking at it like that it wasnt so much a betrayal by his friends as a coping mechanism whereby they were trying to keep safe themselves, from their parents. Just a thought :) Hope your son is feeling better about it all.
Blessings,
¸.·´ .·-:¦:-
((¸¸.·´Camille .·´-:¦:- ~
-:¦:-¸¸.·´*
The whole story does make alot of difference. The older kids obviously know their parents well enough to know that blaming your son (who after all is younger and doesnt know as well) will save them from the consequences - which may have been being grounded, banned from being with their other friends etc. With the blame being placed on your son the parents may have given him a break because he was younger, if you get what I mean. I think looking at it like that it wasnt so much a betrayal by his friends as a coping mechanism whereby they were trying to keep safe themselves, from their parents. Just a thought :) Hope your son is feeling better about it all.
Blessings,
¸.·´ .·-:¦:-
((¸¸.·´Camille .·´-:¦:- ~
-:¦:-¸¸.·´*
----- Original Message -----
From: carenkh
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:59 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: swearing...
OK, yeah, the "more of the story" really changes everything!
I think for these kids it's got to be a *little* confusing, to have a friend whom they like who cusses, and a parent whom they love who says it's a terrible thing, good people don't do that, etc. I remember an uncle smoking pot in front of me when I was around that age - this was in NC in the 70s, so not exactly a bastion of free expression - and I was VERY confused! I mean - people who use drugs are horrible, horrible people! But I LOVED my uncle! It was a few years later that I realized I had been fed lies about drugs, drug users, etc. - which probably made my use of it more certain!
So these kids are still figuring out: What's the truth for me? And they are forced to act one way around their parents, and choose to act another way when their parents aren't there. What's sad is that because of their parents' control and close-mindedness, it will take them longer to figure out *their* truth. Maybe they are offended, but cuss when the parents aren't there to rebel.
I was so surprised when Seth (my 10 y.o.) let me know HE'S offended by cussing! I mean, he's the king of fart jokes, and cussing has never been a big deal to us. I hardly cuss, but sometimes, F**K! fits the bill. If that happened around Seth, his eyes would get big: "I really don't like it when you say that." Oh, oops. OK! So I've gotten better about saying, "Fricken fracken grumble, grumble" and stomping when he's around. I rarely get that frustrated anyway.
Maybe your son could ask his friends how they DO feel about cussing? OK, not OK around them? OK when Dad's not close by? Some clarity from them would be helpful, as much as they can provide.
Caren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Alex, the problem is that his friends usually swear as well, and that is why my son was very hurt and confused by their behavior towards him....In fact, they did the same day that they also tattled on him
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That was my response to your first e-mail before you explained. You second e-mail changes a lot of it.
What I said above was that time out is what they probably learned because that is how they are treated at home. You don't do what parent asks you get time out.
Now the second scenario about the girl is a tottaly different situation.....
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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That was my response to your first e-mail before you explained. You second e-mail changes a lot of it.
What I said above was that time out is what they probably learned because that is how they are treated at home. You don't do what parent asks you get time out.
Now the second scenario about the girl is a tottaly different situation.....
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "carenkh" <carenkh@...> wrote:
That's a good idea. Depending on the kids, it might be better to ask what they think the "rules" are about swearing, and *then* how they feel about those rules. Let your son know, though, that even if these friends don't like "the rules" they may still "enforce" them from time to time.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>> Maybe your son could ask his friends how they DO feel about cussing? OK, not OK around them? OK when Dad's not close by? Some clarity from them would be helpful, as much as they can provide.************************
That's a good idea. Depending on the kids, it might be better to ask what they think the "rules" are about swearing, and *then* how they feel about those rules. Let your son know, though, that even if these friends don't like "the rules" they may still "enforce" them from time to time.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
amberlee_b
-Ok you will really enjoy these then.....especially if you like World of Warcraft.....I think there are at least 4 of them...this is the first one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTLPhHjgUr4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTLPhHjgUr4
amberlee_b
Oh shoot!!!! I sent the pirated link...hang on...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5q3TG5yCG0&feature=channel_page
He has a ton of funny stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5q3TG5yCG0&feature=channel_page
He has a ton of funny stuff.