daughter wants to go back to school...
sistergoddesselli
We left school in December and found un-schooling in February. I've got a daughter 11 and son 8.
My daughter wants to go back to school now. At least she waffles back and forth between wanting to be at home and wanting to go back to school. Here are some of the things that we are struggling with and some of the things I am doing. I would love to hear your thoughts...
1. I am not taking it personally. And, I am opening the "Going back to school" doors by emailing the middle school principal.
2. She wants to "study" a curriculum so I have found a cool science program on-line, a long list of recommended books for sixth-graders, and a math curriculum. We got a few of the books and we're hanging on to the curriculum information. This seems to make her feel more secure about the idea of being home. If she wants to school at home, I'll get the curriculum stuff for her.
3. She has tons of interests - real-estate, acting, directing, design, computers - so I am connecting her with adults who have expertise in those areas. We got her an new apple lap top and she is taking classes at the apple store. A friend of the family who is a real estate agent took her out to see houses for sale. We are almost done redecorating her brother's room and she led the way with ideas and resources. My challenge there is her little brother who refuses to go out of the house. So, sometimes I go with my daughter and take my son to my dad's house. Sometimes I stay home with my son. Sometimes I leave my son home on his own, when his dad is only 5 minutes away at work. I wish I could go with my daughter everytime and so does she...
4. She loves to ride her bike so I am riding with her. This is harder for me... I feel like I need to be cooking or keeping up the house or just chilling out, but I am doing my best to leave those thoughts behind and go riding with her.
5. She is struggling with friends... she had close friends at school, yet they live in other neighborhoods and she doesn't like to call them about getting together. I am reaching out on her behalf, but sometimes it seems not fast enough for her. She'd love some friends in the 'hood, but there aren't many girls her age. She has made some homeschool friends but they live 45 minutes away. We try to visit as much as we can. I keep reaching out on her behalf to find new friends and to connect with old ones. I'd love to empower her to ride her bike to visit her friends, and that is something I can work on by riding with her more often and showing her the routes.
6. She describes "relaxed home-schooling" as an approach she'd like to take. Some core curriculum stuff with everything else approached more like un-schooling. Sounds good to me.
7. She says she'd like to go to a private school and we don't have any money for that. I do my best to explain the finances, which are tight since I quit working. Any thoughts on keeping the idea of abundance alive while working through the reality of living pay-check to pay-check???
8. Her brother likes to be naked all day and she hates seeing him nude. She won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries to bargain with him - she'll help with his computer questions if he puts on some shorts. Hubby would like to lay down the law with our son. I prefer to ask, but not expect a change. Would love some ideas...
9. She says that she wanted to homeschool so that she could be with me and not with me and her brother...she will sometimes say that she wants to go back to school in order to get away from her brother.
Hmmmmm...I think that is all.
I am really enjoying this path... I am growing and learning and stretching myself. We all seem to be getting along better and working out solutions.
I'd appreciate thoughts and comments.
Thanks,
Elli
My daughter wants to go back to school now. At least she waffles back and forth between wanting to be at home and wanting to go back to school. Here are some of the things that we are struggling with and some of the things I am doing. I would love to hear your thoughts...
1. I am not taking it personally. And, I am opening the "Going back to school" doors by emailing the middle school principal.
2. She wants to "study" a curriculum so I have found a cool science program on-line, a long list of recommended books for sixth-graders, and a math curriculum. We got a few of the books and we're hanging on to the curriculum information. This seems to make her feel more secure about the idea of being home. If she wants to school at home, I'll get the curriculum stuff for her.
3. She has tons of interests - real-estate, acting, directing, design, computers - so I am connecting her with adults who have expertise in those areas. We got her an new apple lap top and she is taking classes at the apple store. A friend of the family who is a real estate agent took her out to see houses for sale. We are almost done redecorating her brother's room and she led the way with ideas and resources. My challenge there is her little brother who refuses to go out of the house. So, sometimes I go with my daughter and take my son to my dad's house. Sometimes I stay home with my son. Sometimes I leave my son home on his own, when his dad is only 5 minutes away at work. I wish I could go with my daughter everytime and so does she...
4. She loves to ride her bike so I am riding with her. This is harder for me... I feel like I need to be cooking or keeping up the house or just chilling out, but I am doing my best to leave those thoughts behind and go riding with her.
5. She is struggling with friends... she had close friends at school, yet they live in other neighborhoods and she doesn't like to call them about getting together. I am reaching out on her behalf, but sometimes it seems not fast enough for her. She'd love some friends in the 'hood, but there aren't many girls her age. She has made some homeschool friends but they live 45 minutes away. We try to visit as much as we can. I keep reaching out on her behalf to find new friends and to connect with old ones. I'd love to empower her to ride her bike to visit her friends, and that is something I can work on by riding with her more often and showing her the routes.
6. She describes "relaxed home-schooling" as an approach she'd like to take. Some core curriculum stuff with everything else approached more like un-schooling. Sounds good to me.
7. She says she'd like to go to a private school and we don't have any money for that. I do my best to explain the finances, which are tight since I quit working. Any thoughts on keeping the idea of abundance alive while working through the reality of living pay-check to pay-check???
8. Her brother likes to be naked all day and she hates seeing him nude. She won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries to bargain with him - she'll help with his computer questions if he puts on some shorts. Hubby would like to lay down the law with our son. I prefer to ask, but not expect a change. Would love some ideas...
9. She says that she wanted to homeschool so that she could be with me and not with me and her brother...she will sometimes say that she wants to go back to school in order to get away from her brother.
Hmmmmm...I think that is all.
I am really enjoying this path... I am growing and learning and stretching myself. We all seem to be getting along better and working out solutions.
I'd appreciate thoughts and comments.
Thanks,
Elli
Faith Void
OP: We left school in December and found un-schooling in February. I've got
a daughter 11 and son 8.
***So you are still de-schooling. Luckily for y'all it is summer vacation.
Relax!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
OP: My daughter wants to go back to school now. At least she waffles back
and forth between wanting to be at home and wanting to go back to school.
Here are some of the things that we are struggling with and some of the
things I am doing. I would love to hear your thoughts...
***Well there is no school right now. So perhaps she can sit back and enjoy
her summer. Can you find out when the registration for school needs to be in
and then decide then?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
OP: 1. I am not taking it personally. And, I am opening the "Going back to
school" doors by emailing the middle school principal.
***Tha's a good start. There is no reason to take it personally.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=
OP: 2. She wants to "study" a curriculum so I have found a cool science
program on-line, a long list of recommended books for sixth-graders, and a
math curriculum. We got a few of the books and we're hanging on to the
curriculum information. This seems to make her feel more secure about the
idea of being home. If she wants to school at home, I'll get the curriculum
stuff for her.
***That sounds like you are showing respect for her needs. She needs the
security of school, that's all she has known. Perhaps you can suggest that
she let it go for a while and enjoy the summer. De-school yourselves a bit.
She can just explore her interests without worrying about school.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-
OP::3. She has tons of interests - real-estate, acting, directing, design,
computers - so I am connecting her with adults who have expertise in those
areas. We got her an new apple lap top and she is taking classes at the
apple store. A friend of the family who is a real estate agent took her out
to see houses for sale. We are almost done redecorating her brother's room
and she led the way with ideas and resources. My challenge there is her
little brother who refuses to go out of the house. So, sometimes I go with
my daughter and take my son to my dad's house. Sometimes I stay home with my
son. Sometimes I leave my son home on his own, when his dad is only 5
minutes away at work. I wish I could go with my daughter everytime and so
does she...
***I understand my ds doesn't like to leave the house either. It sounds like
you are being creative and finding some solutions. Can you think of more?
Also try to look at it from his perspective rather than "refuses". He is
unwilling to go out for a reason. Find out why. See what you can work with.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-
OP: 4. She loves to ride her bike so I am riding with her. This is harder
for me... I feel like I need to be cooking or keeping up the house or just
chilling out, but I am doing my best to leave those thoughts behind and go
riding with her.
***I think we all feel like that from time to time. She needs you a lot
right now and it is a lot to give. Perhaps you can find a house keeper to
come help keep up on things. Of you could prepare meals early so you just
pop them in at the necessary time. I have a friends who cooks once a month!
I am not there yet but I hope to be. She prepares her main dishes and
freezes them. She might cook a side or make a salad a few times. It saves a
lot of time. Look for ways to save time. You can ask dd to clean with you or
hang out and talk while you clean.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=
5. She is struggling with friends... she had close friends at school, yet
they live in other neighborhoods and she doesn't like to call them about
getting together. I am reaching out on her behalf, but sometimes it seems
not fast enough for her. She'd love some friends in the 'hood, but there
aren't many girls her age. She has made some homeschool friends but they
live 45 minutes away. We try to visit as much as we can. I keep reaching out
on her behalf to find new friends and to connect with old ones. I'd love to
empower her to ride her bike to visit her friends, and that is something I
can work on by riding with her more often and showing her the routes.
***What did you do when she was in school? Did you help her make hang out
dates? Did you drive her around to the places she wanted to go? If she
doesn't like to call them can you? Can she email or even snail mail them?
Make a nice hand done invitation to a party? It sounds like you have some
plans in the works. These things don't happen over night. relax. I drive to
other states to hang out with my oldest's unschooling friends. We travel to
as many conferences as we can. I have even started a local conference (Enjoy
Life Unschooling). I just drove her to NYC to hang out with a cousin and be
a mother's helper for 2 1/2 weeks. Before that we drove an hour 1/2 to met
another unschooler to hang out. Theya re going to see Green Day together. It
can take a lot to find friends.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-
6. She describes "relaxed home-schooling" as an approach she'd like to take.
Some core curriculum stuff with everything else approached more like
un-schooling. Sounds good to me.
*** I don't think that she has a grasp on unschooling and perhaps you don't
yet either. That's ok, keep reading, keep asking questions. She doesn't
sound like she trusts herself. Has she read How to Quit School and Get a
Real Life? She might like it.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
7. She says she'd like to go to a private school and we don't have any money
for that. I do my best to explain the finances, which are tight since I quit
working. Any thoughts on keeping the idea of abundance alive while working
through the reality of living pay-check to pay-check???
***It might help to re-think what abundance means to you. I sometimes make
lists. I have a vision board for our family that we write what we want on.
It helps us see the path. It make take a while but we always get there. I
have a list on my phone that I check off when I get the thing I wanted. It
is really cool to see all the things I have gotten. Occaisionally my oldest
makes list. She made a gratitude list a while back. She wrote down all teh
things she had and was grateful for. It was huge! And ended up not being all
things.
-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
8. Her brother likes to be naked all day and she hates seeing him nude. She
won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries to bargain with
him - she'll help with his computer questions if he puts on some shorts.
Hubby would like to lay down the law with our son. I prefer to ask, but not
expect a change. Would love some ideas...
***That's her problem. She can't and shouldn't be allowed to control his
choices. You may want to talk with her about her feeling rather than allow
the controling and coercing. Being naked feels good why would you all want
him to stop something that feels good just because you are hung up about
nudity?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
9. She says that she wanted to homeschool so that she could be with me and
not with me and her brother...she will sometimes say that she wants to go
back to school in order to get away from her brother.
***well they were seperate for a really long time. It may take time to heal
their relationship. Respect her where she is. Find ways to keep them apart.
Also find small ways to bring them together. If they have a common interest
or something. My kids are spaced far apart yet I still find ways to help
them celebrate their common interest (oddly they have some). They both like
anime and read comics together. They will both play video games together (my
oldest isn't quite as into as ds). They watch movies together. Of course
don't push the issue if they really want to be sepereate.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
a daughter 11 and son 8.
***So you are still de-schooling. Luckily for y'all it is summer vacation.
Relax!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
OP: My daughter wants to go back to school now. At least she waffles back
and forth between wanting to be at home and wanting to go back to school.
Here are some of the things that we are struggling with and some of the
things I am doing. I would love to hear your thoughts...
***Well there is no school right now. So perhaps she can sit back and enjoy
her summer. Can you find out when the registration for school needs to be in
and then decide then?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
OP: 1. I am not taking it personally. And, I am opening the "Going back to
school" doors by emailing the middle school principal.
***Tha's a good start. There is no reason to take it personally.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=
OP: 2. She wants to "study" a curriculum so I have found a cool science
program on-line, a long list of recommended books for sixth-graders, and a
math curriculum. We got a few of the books and we're hanging on to the
curriculum information. This seems to make her feel more secure about the
idea of being home. If she wants to school at home, I'll get the curriculum
stuff for her.
***That sounds like you are showing respect for her needs. She needs the
security of school, that's all she has known. Perhaps you can suggest that
she let it go for a while and enjoy the summer. De-school yourselves a bit.
She can just explore her interests without worrying about school.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-
OP::3. She has tons of interests - real-estate, acting, directing, design,
computers - so I am connecting her with adults who have expertise in those
areas. We got her an new apple lap top and she is taking classes at the
apple store. A friend of the family who is a real estate agent took her out
to see houses for sale. We are almost done redecorating her brother's room
and she led the way with ideas and resources. My challenge there is her
little brother who refuses to go out of the house. So, sometimes I go with
my daughter and take my son to my dad's house. Sometimes I stay home with my
son. Sometimes I leave my son home on his own, when his dad is only 5
minutes away at work. I wish I could go with my daughter everytime and so
does she...
***I understand my ds doesn't like to leave the house either. It sounds like
you are being creative and finding some solutions. Can you think of more?
Also try to look at it from his perspective rather than "refuses". He is
unwilling to go out for a reason. Find out why. See what you can work with.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-
OP: 4. She loves to ride her bike so I am riding with her. This is harder
for me... I feel like I need to be cooking or keeping up the house or just
chilling out, but I am doing my best to leave those thoughts behind and go
riding with her.
***I think we all feel like that from time to time. She needs you a lot
right now and it is a lot to give. Perhaps you can find a house keeper to
come help keep up on things. Of you could prepare meals early so you just
pop them in at the necessary time. I have a friends who cooks once a month!
I am not there yet but I hope to be. She prepares her main dishes and
freezes them. She might cook a side or make a salad a few times. It saves a
lot of time. Look for ways to save time. You can ask dd to clean with you or
hang out and talk while you clean.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=
5. She is struggling with friends... she had close friends at school, yet
they live in other neighborhoods and she doesn't like to call them about
getting together. I am reaching out on her behalf, but sometimes it seems
not fast enough for her. She'd love some friends in the 'hood, but there
aren't many girls her age. She has made some homeschool friends but they
live 45 minutes away. We try to visit as much as we can. I keep reaching out
on her behalf to find new friends and to connect with old ones. I'd love to
empower her to ride her bike to visit her friends, and that is something I
can work on by riding with her more often and showing her the routes.
***What did you do when she was in school? Did you help her make hang out
dates? Did you drive her around to the places she wanted to go? If she
doesn't like to call them can you? Can she email or even snail mail them?
Make a nice hand done invitation to a party? It sounds like you have some
plans in the works. These things don't happen over night. relax. I drive to
other states to hang out with my oldest's unschooling friends. We travel to
as many conferences as we can. I have even started a local conference (Enjoy
Life Unschooling). I just drove her to NYC to hang out with a cousin and be
a mother's helper for 2 1/2 weeks. Before that we drove an hour 1/2 to met
another unschooler to hang out. Theya re going to see Green Day together. It
can take a lot to find friends.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-
6. She describes "relaxed home-schooling" as an approach she'd like to take.
Some core curriculum stuff with everything else approached more like
un-schooling. Sounds good to me.
*** I don't think that she has a grasp on unschooling and perhaps you don't
yet either. That's ok, keep reading, keep asking questions. She doesn't
sound like she trusts herself. Has she read How to Quit School and Get a
Real Life? She might like it.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
7. She says she'd like to go to a private school and we don't have any money
for that. I do my best to explain the finances, which are tight since I quit
working. Any thoughts on keeping the idea of abundance alive while working
through the reality of living pay-check to pay-check???
***It might help to re-think what abundance means to you. I sometimes make
lists. I have a vision board for our family that we write what we want on.
It helps us see the path. It make take a while but we always get there. I
have a list on my phone that I check off when I get the thing I wanted. It
is really cool to see all the things I have gotten. Occaisionally my oldest
makes list. She made a gratitude list a while back. She wrote down all teh
things she had and was grateful for. It was huge! And ended up not being all
things.
-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
8. Her brother likes to be naked all day and she hates seeing him nude. She
won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries to bargain with
him - she'll help with his computer questions if he puts on some shorts.
Hubby would like to lay down the law with our son. I prefer to ask, but not
expect a change. Would love some ideas...
***That's her problem. She can't and shouldn't be allowed to control his
choices. You may want to talk with her about her feeling rather than allow
the controling and coercing. Being naked feels good why would you all want
him to stop something that feels good just because you are hung up about
nudity?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
9. She says that she wanted to homeschool so that she could be with me and
not with me and her brother...she will sometimes say that she wants to go
back to school in order to get away from her brother.
***well they were seperate for a really long time. It may take time to heal
their relationship. Respect her where she is. Find ways to keep them apart.
Also find small ways to bring them together. If they have a common interest
or something. My kids are spaced far apart yet I still find ways to help
them celebrate their common interest (oddly they have some). They both like
anime and read comics together. They will both play video games together (my
oldest isn't quite as into as ds). They watch movies together. Of course
don't push the issue if they really want to be sepereate.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>> ***well they were seperate for a really long time. It may take time to healThis has been very much the case with my kids, too - maybe moreso, since Ray lived with his bio mom for the first five years of Mo's life. They needed time to get to know each other. Ray needed time to deschool from the expectation that "peers" meant people the same age and gender, and from the expectation that he was automatically "in charge" if he was the oldest person in the room. Plus he was confused and jealous that Mo was "getting away with" things he wouldn't have when he was younger. All those things took time and love and some conversations! to resolve. As Faith said, finding ways for them to do things together *and* ways to stay out of each other's way was a valuable part of that process.
> their relationship. Respect her where she is. Find ways to keep them apart.
> Also find small ways to bring them together. If they have a common interest
> or something. My kids are spaced far apart yet I still find ways to help
> them celebrate their common interest (oddly they have some). They both like
> anime and read comics together. They will both play video games together (my
> oldest isn't quite as into as ds). They watch movies together. Of course
> don't push the issue if they really want to be sepereate.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
[email protected]
Why does the 8-yo want to be naked all the time? I'm with big sister. I wouldn't want to be around that all the time either.
Nance
Nance
Faith Void
I am curious as to what is your actual problem with it. Is your issue
children/people shouldn't be naked in front of others or do you feel
like he is 'too old' to be naked? Or something else. To me it seems
incredibly oppressive to tell someone they need to wear clothes in
their own house for someone else comfort.
I can see her having authority over her personal domain but not
communal space.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 8:33 AM, "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...
children/people shouldn't be naked in front of others or do you feel
like he is 'too old' to be naked? Or something else. To me it seems
incredibly oppressive to tell someone they need to wear clothes in
their own house for someone else comfort.
I can see her having authority over her personal domain but not
communal space.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 8:33 AM, "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...
> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Why does the 8-yo want to be naked all the time? I'm with big
> sister. I wouldn't want to be around that all the time either.
>
> Nance
>
>
Katrinka
>I'm glad I'm not the only one that has the 'naked' problem! :) My son has never outgrown his love of being naked.
> Why does the 8-yo want to be naked all the time?
>
My fifteen year old son has always felt more comfy in his own skin.
When there is only the family at home, my son likes that freedom. Sometimes he wears a sheet around himself or a pair of pajama bottoms. But most of the time, he's nude.
Now of course, if someone comes to the door, he's dressed very quickly.
My son also expressed to me he wanted to go 'back to school." I didn't argue with him. Just told him it was his own choice. Found out he missed his friends. Now he's back to wanting to be home schooled. Esp when he found out that the bus that would pick him up for high school would pick him up at 6:15 am. yes, the district I live in has that old fashioned idea that high school has to start at 7:30 and last to 3:00! Also, the school will make him cut his very long hair.
carenkh
That's funny - I was thinking it would be fine for him to be naked in his domain, but not in the communal space! That's in our house - it's obviously different in yours.
I don't need to look at this any more deeply, because it's not an issue in our home. Both boys developed their own modesty around 4 - 5; I always accepted them being naked, this was a choice they grew into. I don't know how I would have handled it if they hadn't. Probably, if anyone was offended (I don't know that I would have been, but who knows?), I would have asked them to be dressed around that person. It doesn't seem oppressive, it seems respectful - because it's the daughter's house, too!
Caren
I don't need to look at this any more deeply, because it's not an issue in our home. Both boys developed their own modesty around 4 - 5; I always accepted them being naked, this was a choice they grew into. I don't know how I would have handled it if they hadn't. Probably, if anyone was offended (I don't know that I would have been, but who knows?), I would have asked them to be dressed around that person. It doesn't seem oppressive, it seems respectful - because it's the daughter's house, too!
Caren
--- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
To me it seems
> incredibly oppressive to tell someone they need to wear clothes in
> their own house for someone else comfort.
Michelle
I feel this is a similar situation to the 'swearing' post. This is about
personal limits and boundaries. Your daughter has a right to not view his
nudity if it bothers her. Girls at the age of 11 are becoming more aware of
their bodies and sexuality and of course she is uncomfortable. It's an
awkward age filled with hormones and emotions. Maybe talk about this as a
family as it appears to bother dad too. I think letting everyone come up
with ideas of how to work through it is good. Maybe ask your son if he
would be willing to wear clothing in the shared areas of the house and have
a nude-fest-free-for-all while in the privacy of his own room. Everyone
participating in a cooperative effort so that everyone has room to be
themselves while also not making others uncomfortable is a good thing with
real-world value. I know I'm not hearing the whole story, but it does sound
like little brother's joyful experience interferes with big sister's joyful
experience at home and often away from home. There is a need for balance
here and prompting the kids to work together on a solution may do wonders
for building their relationship. Even just talking about it as a family may
help. I think it is kind of sad that your daughter wants to go back to
school to get away from her brother. Making time to work towards healing
their relationship sounds appropriate.
For what it's worth..
Michelle
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
marbleface@...
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: daughter wants to go back to school...
Why does the 8-yo want to be naked all the time? I'm with big sister. I
wouldn't want to be around that all the time either.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
personal limits and boundaries. Your daughter has a right to not view his
nudity if it bothers her. Girls at the age of 11 are becoming more aware of
their bodies and sexuality and of course she is uncomfortable. It's an
awkward age filled with hormones and emotions. Maybe talk about this as a
family as it appears to bother dad too. I think letting everyone come up
with ideas of how to work through it is good. Maybe ask your son if he
would be willing to wear clothing in the shared areas of the house and have
a nude-fest-free-for-all while in the privacy of his own room. Everyone
participating in a cooperative effort so that everyone has room to be
themselves while also not making others uncomfortable is a good thing with
real-world value. I know I'm not hearing the whole story, but it does sound
like little brother's joyful experience interferes with big sister's joyful
experience at home and often away from home. There is a need for balance
here and prompting the kids to work together on a solution may do wonders
for building their relationship. Even just talking about it as a family may
help. I think it is kind of sad that your daughter wants to go back to
school to get away from her brother. Making time to work towards healing
their relationship sounds appropriate.
For what it's worth..
Michelle
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
marbleface@...
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: daughter wants to go back to school...
Why does the 8-yo want to be naked all the time? I'm with big sister. I
wouldn't want to be around that all the time either.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
I was looking at the way she was using it to control situations. That
is oppressive. How is it respectful to go along with placating her
needs and not his. Sure that respects her needs but what about his?
Communal space can be discussed to met everyones needs, everyone.
Perhaps ds wouldn't mind having clothes on in the common areas but to
decree it isn't respectful to where he is right now. It also sets up
power struggles and controlling.
If I need quiet and my child needs to make noise. We can discuss
options. We can come to something we can agree on. I think it would be
disrespectful for me to insist I met his need or he meet mine without
an agreement. I certainly would not condone oppressing his expression
to met my needs. Because I felt uncomfortable.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
is oppressive. How is it respectful to go along with placating her
needs and not his. Sure that respects her needs but what about his?
Communal space can be discussed to met everyones needs, everyone.
Perhaps ds wouldn't mind having clothes on in the common areas but to
decree it isn't respectful to where he is right now. It also sets up
power struggles and controlling.
If I need quiet and my child needs to make noise. We can discuss
options. We can come to something we can agree on. I think it would be
disrespectful for me to insist I met his need or he meet mine without
an agreement. I certainly would not condone oppressing his expression
to met my needs. Because I felt uncomfortable.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 9:04 AM, "carenkh" <carenkh@...> wrote:
>
>
> That's funny - I was thinking it would be fine for him to be naked
> in his domain, but not in the communal space! That's in our house -
> it's obviously different in yours.
>
> I don't need to look at this any more deeply, because it's not an
> issue in our home. Both boys developed their own modesty around 4 -
> 5; I always accepted them being naked, this was a choice they grew
> into. I don't know how I would have handled it if they hadn't.
> Probably, if anyone was offended (I don't know that I would have
> been, but who knows?), I would have asked them to be dressed around
> that person. It doesn't seem oppressive, it seems respectful -
> because it's the daughter's house, too!
>
> Caren
>
> --- In [email protected], Faith Void
> <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
> To me it seems
> > incredibly oppressive to tell someone they need to wear clothes in
> > their own house for someone else comfort.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
8. Her brother likes to be naked all day and she hates seeing him nude. She
won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries to bargain with
him - she'll help with his computer questions if he puts on some shorts.
Hubby would like to lay down the law with our son. I prefer to ask, but not
expect a change. Would love some ideas...
***That's her problem. She can't and shouldn't be allowed to control his
choices. You may want to talk with her about her feeling rather than allow
the controling and coercing. Being naked feels good why would you all want
him to stop something that feels good just because you are hung up about
nudity?
I **strongly** disagree with this advice.
These children are living in a society where clothing is expected when one
is around other people, except perhaps when one is in the company of someone
they're having a sexual relationship with.
I see nothing wrong with an adolescent girl saying to her brother that she
doesn't want him in her room naked and that she's not comfortable helping
him while he's naked.
His right to be naked doesn't trump her right to be comfortable in her own
house, especially not in her own room, nor does it trump her right to be
comfortable while she's assisting him with something he's requested.
I'm personally very very uncomfortable with the idea of telling a young boy
that he has the right to be naked no matter what.
Certainly, this girl shouldn't have to feel that she has to go back to
school in order not to have to have other people's nakedness forced upon her.
Deborah in IL
**************
Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries to bargain with
him - she'll help with his computer questions if he puts on some shorts.
Hubby would like to lay down the law with our son. I prefer to ask, but not
expect a change. Would love some ideas...
***That's her problem. She can't and shouldn't be allowed to control his
choices. You may want to talk with her about her feeling rather than allow
the controling and coercing. Being naked feels good why would you all want
him to stop something that feels good just because you are hung up about
nudity?
I **strongly** disagree with this advice.
These children are living in a society where clothing is expected when one
is around other people, except perhaps when one is in the company of someone
they're having a sexual relationship with.
I see nothing wrong with an adolescent girl saying to her brother that she
doesn't want him in her room naked and that she's not comfortable helping
him while he's naked.
His right to be naked doesn't trump her right to be comfortable in her own
house, especially not in her own room, nor does it trump her right to be
comfortable while she's assisting him with something he's requested.
I'm personally very very uncomfortable with the idea of telling a young boy
that he has the right to be naked no matter what.
Certainly, this girl shouldn't have to feel that she has to go back to
school in order not to have to have other people's nakedness forced upon her.
Deborah in IL
**************
Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http
:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tom Hall
DACunefare@... wrote:
matter, it's a lot easier for him to put on some loose pants or shorts
(which minimally interfere with his freedom) than it is for her to walk
around the house with her eyes closed.
Just guessing here, but perhaps part of the fun of being naked is the
reaction it gets from his sister?
-Tom
>Both people are entitled to their preferences, but as a practical
> 8. Her brother likes to be naked all day and she hates seeing him nude. She
> won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries to bargain with
> him - she'll help with his computer questions if he puts on some shorts.
> Hubby would like to lay down the law with our son. I prefer to ask, but not
> expect a change. Would love some ideas...
>
matter, it's a lot easier for him to put on some loose pants or shorts
(which minimally interfere with his freedom) than it is for her to walk
around the house with her eyes closed.
Just guessing here, but perhaps part of the fun of being naked is the
reaction it gets from his sister?
-Tom
swissarmy_wife
>>>Being naked feels good why would you all want him to stop something that feels good just because you are hung up about nudity?******I don't think being naked feels good to everyone. I also don't feel that this is only "her problem". Someone who is uncomfortable with nudity doesn't have a "hang-up". It is their choice to be uncomfortable with nudity, just as it is there choice to be uncomfortable with eating meat or shooting guns. I think it is similar to the other thread on swearing. At some point it becomes relevant how your actions affect others.
Being nude IS his free expression, but if it is really bothering his sister, then I think efforts should be made to meet BOTH their needs. I'm also not seeing a problem with her not wanting to help him if he is nude. That is her right.
Heather
www.swissarmywife.net
========================================================================
Ren Allen
~~I can see her having authority over her personal domain but not
communal space.~~
Communal space is shared so it's still necessary to consider how everyone feels about the situation. Our communal space is about everyone agreeing to something or we don't use it in a certain manner. We have our own spaces of we want it different. I don't think communal space means that he should ignore his sisters discomfort.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
communal space.~~
Communal space is shared so it's still necessary to consider how everyone feels about the situation. Our communal space is about everyone agreeing to something or we don't use it in a certain manner. We have our own spaces of we want it different. I don't think communal space means that he should ignore his sisters discomfort.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Ren Allen
~~I was looking at the way she was using it to control situations. That
is oppressive. How is it respectful to go along with placating her
needs and not his. Sure that respects her needs but what about his?~~
In our society one is expected to be clothed in public. Is that disregarding his needs? No, there are places to be nude if that's a need you have and there are places you need to consider others and/or laws, communal spaces etc...
I don't see how it's hurting anyone to put on some loose shorts in order to respect a person that doesn't want to see you nude. If it's that big a deal, then be in a place where being nude is ok. There are very real constraints when one lives with other humans and I don't think we help our children any when we don't point those things out.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
is oppressive. How is it respectful to go along with placating her
needs and not his. Sure that respects her needs but what about his?~~
In our society one is expected to be clothed in public. Is that disregarding his needs? No, there are places to be nude if that's a need you have and there are places you need to consider others and/or laws, communal spaces etc...
I don't see how it's hurting anyone to put on some loose shorts in order to respect a person that doesn't want to see you nude. If it's that big a deal, then be in a place where being nude is ok. There are very real constraints when one lives with other humans and I don't think we help our children any when we don't point those things out.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Ren Allen
~~His right to be naked doesn't trump her right to be comfortable in her own house, especially not in her own room, nor does it trump her right to be comfortable while she's assisting him with something he's requested.
I'm personally very very uncomfortable with the idea of telling a young boy that he has the right to be naked no matter what.~~
I just thought this was worth repeating. I agree.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
I'm personally very very uncomfortable with the idea of telling a young boy that he has the right to be naked no matter what.~~
I just thought this was worth repeating. I agree.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Faith Void
That is not what I said. I said she has authority over her own space.
She should not have authority over communal space. I suggested they
discuss how to come together with their needs and reach an agreement.
I specifically said no ones needs should override another. Problem
solving.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 10:59 AM, "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
wrote:
She should not have authority over communal space. I suggested they
discuss how to come together with their needs and reach an agreement.
I specifically said no ones needs should override another. Problem
solving.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 10:59 AM, "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ~~I can see her having authority over her personal domain but not
> communal space.~~
>
> Communal space is shared so it's still necessary to consider how
> everyone feels about the situation. Our communal space is about
> everyone agreeing to something or we don't use it in a certain
> manner. We have our own spaces of we want it different. I don't
> think communal space means that he should ignore his sisters
> discomfort.
>
> Ren
> radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>
>
Faith Void
I am saying that discussing it with him is more respectful than
demanding that he be dressed to please his sister.
I personally don't have an issue with covering up if someone asks
polite, neither do my kids. However if my dd demanded or used coercion
to get her brother to put clothes on I would say that wasn't ok. She
can certainly ask. She can surely sit down and cone up with a solution
together with her brother instead of saying my way or the highway.
These are two children in an already compromised relationship, helping
them
Problem solve and them learning to work together seem like a bigger
matter than the nudity. IMO
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 11:03 AM, "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
wrote:
demanding that he be dressed to please his sister.
I personally don't have an issue with covering up if someone asks
polite, neither do my kids. However if my dd demanded or used coercion
to get her brother to put clothes on I would say that wasn't ok. She
can certainly ask. She can surely sit down and cone up with a solution
together with her brother instead of saying my way or the highway.
These are two children in an already compromised relationship, helping
them
Problem solve and them learning to work together seem like a bigger
matter than the nudity. IMO
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 11:03 AM, "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ~~I was looking at the way she was using it to control situations.
> That
> is oppressive. How is it respectful to go along with placating her
> needs and not his. Sure that respects her needs but what about his?~~
>
> In our society one is expected to be clothed in public. Is that
> disregarding his needs? No, there are places to be nude if that's a
> need you have and there are places you need to consider others and/
> or laws, communal spaces etc...
>
> I don't see how it's hurting anyone to put on some loose shorts in
> order to respect a person that doesn't want to see you nude. If it's
> that big a deal, then be in a place where being nude is ok. There
> are very real constraints when one lives with other humans and I
> don't think we help our children any when we don't point those
> things out.
>
> Ren
> radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>
>
swissarmy_wife
--- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
These are two children in an already compromised relationship, helping
them
Problem solve and them learning to work together seem like a bigger
matter than the nudity. IMO
******Possibly. I would tend to lean on the side of, learning to problem solve and work together is a result of having your feelings honored and respected. So, IMO the nudity is the problem.
Heather
www.swissarmywife.net
========================================================================
The Coffee Goddess
>>I can see her having authority over her personal domain but notcommunal space.>>
I was at the park, a communal space, and saw a guy with his pants down, near the children's play area. I called the police. It's not always ok to be comfortable in communal areas.....
BUT, in our house no one thinks twice about being naked or not, or, more usually, half-naked, wearing JUST boxers or a shirt and nothing else, or ANY imaginable combination. That's how we've always been, that's how it was when I was a kid, too--we only get dressed when company was coming...
Since it seems that in the scenario, the little boy has lived to be 8 years old and is still naked, and the daughter just seems to be at odds with him, I am wondering if it's not the nudity that bothers her, but just her brother in general. If he was dressed and wearing the wrong color, would she also complain? He's breathing too loudly? He's touching my side of the car?
Just wondering if it's the nudity or just bad sibling relationship....
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah
--- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
**However if my dd demanded or used coercion to get her brother to put clothes on I would say that wasn't ok.**
That wasn't the situation as described, however. What was written was
**Her brother likes to be naked all day and she hates seeing him nude. She won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries to bargain with him - she'll help with his computer questions if he puts on some shorts.**
Bargaining is not coercion. Telling her brother she doesn't want to help him while he's naked is not coercion. There is no force or threat of force involved. She's not his only option for getting his questions answered, she's not his parent and obligated by that relationship to help him.
It confuses thought and relationships when we expand the defintions of words like that. People can have conflicts without coercion being involved.
I think it's quite creative and good use of problem solving skills for the 11yo to be offering her brother a bribe to get him clothed.
Deborah in IL
Faith Void
What I am saying is the problem seems bigger than the nudity. If it
weren't nudity the problem would manifest in some other form.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 12:08 PM, "swissarmy_wife" <heatherbean@...>
wrote:
weren't nudity the problem would manifest in some other form.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 12:08 PM, "swissarmy_wife" <heatherbean@...>
wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> --- In [email protected], Faith Void
> <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> These are two children in an already compromised relationship, helping
> them
> Problem solve and them learning to work together seem like a bigger
> matter than the nudity. IMO
>
> ******Possibly. I would tend to lean on the side of, learning to
> problem solve and work together is a result of having your feelings
> honored and respected. So, IMO the nudity is the problem.
>
> Heather
> www.swissarmywife.net
> ===
> =====================================================================
>
>
Faith Void
Well you and I disagree that bribery is coercive.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 2:27 PM, "Deborah" <DACunefare@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Faith Void
> <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> **However if my dd demanded or used coercion to get her brother to
> put clothes on I would say that wasn't ok.**
>
> That wasn't the situation as described, however. What was written was
>
> **Her brother likes to be naked all day and she hates seeing him
> nude. She won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries
> to bargain with him - she'll help with his computer questions if he
> puts on some shorts.**
>
> Bargaining is not coercion. Telling her brother she doesn't want to
> help him while he's naked is not coercion. There is no force or
> threat of force involved. She's not his only option for getting his
> questions answered, she's not his parent and obligated by that
> relationship to help him.
>
> It confuses thought and relationships when we expand the defintions
> of words like that. People can have conflicts without coercion being
> involved.
>
> I think it's quite creative and good use of problem solving skills
> for the 11yo to be offering her brother a bribe to get him clothed.
>
> Deborah in IL
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah
--- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
** Well you and I disagree that bribery is coercive.**
S'okay. I shouldn't have used the word "bribery" anyway. The original post, which you are ignoring, described the interaction as a "bargain".
One of the many things that problem solving can be is bargaining.
If you're going to insist that the situation *as described* is coercive, please help me understand just what that means.
Thanks,
Deborah in IL
swissarmy_wife
Just for clarification:
Coercion - the act of compelling by force of authority
Bribery - the practice of offering something (usually money) in order to gain an illicit advantage
Bargaining - the negotiation of the terms of a transaction or agreement
The daughter gave her terms to helping the brother. He had to be clothed. I feel that is the daughter's right and it is indeed a bargain.
Coercion - the act of compelling by force of authority
Bribery - the practice of offering something (usually money) in order to gain an illicit advantage
Bargaining - the negotiation of the terms of a transaction or agreement
The daughter gave her terms to helping the brother. He had to be clothed. I feel that is the daughter's right and it is indeed a bargain.
[email protected]
I had the same thought, Tom.
But I haven't seen the post yet explaining why he thinks this is a good idea.
Nance
But I haven't seen the post yet explaining why he thinks this is a good idea.
Nance
--- In [email protected], Tom Hall <TOM.HALL@...> wrote:
>
>
> DACunefare@... wrote:
> >
> > 8. Her brother likes to be naked all day and she hates seeing him nude. She
> > won't let him in her room without clothes. And, she tries to bargain with
> > him - she'll help with his computer questions if he puts on some shorts.
> > Hubby would like to lay down the law with our son. I prefer to ask, but not
> > expect a change. Would love some ideas...
> >
>
> Both people are entitled to their preferences, but as a practical
> matter, it's a lot easier for him to put on some loose pants or shorts
> (which minimally interfere with his freedom) than it is for her to walk
> around the house with her eyes closed.
>
> Just guessing here, but perhaps part of the fun of being naked is the
> reaction it gets from his sister?
>
> -Tom
>
[email protected]
My problem?
This has specifically been presented as a problem that an 11-yo girl is having with her younger brother.
I don't think a pair of pajama shorts is going to dent the kid's psyche. And I think just telling the pre-teen in question to get over it is rude.
If clothing is not the norm in your household, that's fine for your household. But suggesting that this is just typical behavior and objecting to it is a "problem" is off the mark for most households. Including mine.
I think figuring out polite ways to live with our own families is a good thing, not "oppression."
But I did wonder if there was some reason, maybe a medical reason, that the boy likes to be naked. That's why I asked.
Nance
This has specifically been presented as a problem that an 11-yo girl is having with her younger brother.
I don't think a pair of pajama shorts is going to dent the kid's psyche. And I think just telling the pre-teen in question to get over it is rude.
If clothing is not the norm in your household, that's fine for your household. But suggesting that this is just typical behavior and objecting to it is a "problem" is off the mark for most households. Including mine.
I think figuring out polite ways to live with our own families is a good thing, not "oppression."
But I did wonder if there was some reason, maybe a medical reason, that the boy likes to be naked. That's why I asked.
Nance
--- In [email protected], Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> I am curious as to what is your actual problem with it. Is your issue
> children/people shouldn't be naked in front of others or do you feel
> like he is 'too old' to be naked? Or something else. To me it seems
> incredibly oppressive to tell someone they need to wear clothes in
> their own house for someone else comfort.
>
> I can see her having authority over her personal domain but not
> communal space.
>
> Faith
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 25, 2009, at 8:33 AM, "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Why does the 8-yo want to be naked all the time? I'm with big
> > sister. I wouldn't want to be around that all the time either.
> >
> > Nance
Camille & Paul
Im in agreement with Caren on this. It he feels the need to be naked, do it in his room. Also wasnt it mentioned that the son didnt want to leave the house - probably because hes naked all the time. Im all for him doing what he wants, while respecting others also. The daughter probably wont want friends coming over etc when she thinks her brother is going to be naked. I come from a home where something similar was happening when I was a child, so I am speaking from this view point.... I was really stressed and frightened actually of anyone coming to my house and finding the person naked. I would avoid people coming over, and it stressed me out all the time, also I found it uncomfortable and if I was your daughter (coming from how I felt as a child) I would probably rather have gone to school also than live in stress all the time.
Blessings,
¸.·´ .·-:¦:-
((¸¸.·´Camille .·´-:¦:- ~
-:¦:-¸¸.·´*
Blessings,
¸.·´ .·-:¦:-
((¸¸.·´Camille .·´-:¦:- ~
-:¦:-¸¸.·´*
----- Original Message -----
From: Faith Void
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: daughter wants to go back to school...
I was looking at the way she was using it to control situations. That
is oppressive. How is it respectful to go along with placating her
needs and not his. Sure that respects her needs but what about his?
Communal space can be discussed to met everyones needs, everyone.
Perhaps ds wouldn't mind having clothes on in the common areas but to
decree it isn't respectful to where he is right now. It also sets up
power struggles and controlling.
If I need quiet and my child needs to make noise. We can discuss
options. We can come to something we can agree on. I think it would be
disrespectful for me to insist I met his need or he meet mine without
an agreement. I certainly would not condone oppressing his expression
to met my needs. Because I felt uncomfortable.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 9:04 AM, "carenkh" <carenkh@...> wrote:
>
>
> That's funny - I was thinking it would be fine for him to be naked
> in his domain, but not in the communal space! That's in our house -
> it's obviously different in yours.
>
> I don't need to look at this any more deeply, because it's not an
> issue in our home. Both boys developed their own modesty around 4 -
> 5; I always accepted them being naked, this was a choice they grew
> into. I don't know how I would have handled it if they hadn't.
> Probably, if anyone was offended (I don't know that I would have
> been, but who knows?), I would have asked them to be dressed around
> that person. It doesn't seem oppressive, it seems respectful -
> because it's the daughter's house, too!
>
> Caren
>
> --- In [email protected], Faith Void
> <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
> To me it seems
> > incredibly oppressive to tell someone they need to wear clothes in
> > their own house for someone else comfort.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
I feel like most of you on here sided with the big sisters offense of
the her brothers nakedness. I think that telling the boy to wear
clothes is not the aT to go. I think that there is a lot of room for
discussion. Why do we need to side with the child who's comfort level
is closer to our own? why on an unschooling board am I being blasted
fir suggesting that the children pronltm solve and come up with a
solution that works for them both?
Why are you bringing up my family at all?
The pj pants might not dent a pchsye but forcing him to wear them
*might*.
I don't think I wrote that you should tell anyone to get over it. I
think that demanding someone conform is indeed oppression. There is
simply no reason to. Is this boy invanable of having a discussion
involving problem solving to come up with a pleasing solution for
everyone. It is highly probable that the child on question would find
wearing boxers or pjs acceptable.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 4:13 PM, "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...
the her brothers nakedness. I think that telling the boy to wear
clothes is not the aT to go. I think that there is a lot of room for
discussion. Why do we need to side with the child who's comfort level
is closer to our own? why on an unschooling board am I being blasted
fir suggesting that the children pronltm solve and come up with a
solution that works for them both?
Why are you bringing up my family at all?
The pj pants might not dent a pchsye but forcing him to wear them
*might*.
I don't think I wrote that you should tell anyone to get over it. I
think that demanding someone conform is indeed oppression. There is
simply no reason to. Is this boy invanable of having a discussion
involving problem solving to come up with a pleasing solution for
everyone. It is highly probable that the child on question would find
wearing boxers or pjs acceptable.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2009, at 4:13 PM, "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...
> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> My problem?
>
> This has specifically been presented as a problem that an 11-yo girl
> is having with her younger brother.
>
> I don't think a pair of pajama shorts is going to dent the kid's
> psyche. And I think just telling the pre-teen in question to get
> over it is rude.
>
> If clothing is not the norm in your household, that's fine for your
> household. But suggesting that this is just typical behavior and
> objecting to it is a "problem" is off the mark for most households.
> Including mine.
>
> I think figuring out polite ways to live with our own families is a
> good thing, not "oppression."
>
> But I did wonder if there was some reason, maybe a medical reason,
> that the boy likes to be naked. That's why I asked.
>
> Nance
>
> --- In [email protected], Faith Void
> <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am curious as to what is your actual problem with it. Is your
> issue
> > children/people shouldn't be naked in front of others or do you feel
> > like he is 'too old' to be naked? Or something else. To me it seems
> > incredibly oppressive to tell someone they need to wear clothes in
> > their own house for someone else comfort.
> >
> > I can see her having authority over her personal domain but not
> > communal space.
> >
> > Faith
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jun 25, 2009, at 8:33 AM, "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Why does the 8-yo want to be naked all the time? I'm with big
> > > sister. I wouldn't want to be around that all the time either.
> > >
> > > Nance
>
>
sistergoddesselli
Hi again -
Thanks for all of your thoughtful responses.
Great conversation about the nudity and sibling relationships. I'd say they have strained relationships - son had 5 open-heart surgeries conducted out-of-state plus numerous in-state medical procedures and hospitalizations from age 3 - 6 while daughter stayed home with grandma and went about the business of being in school. Would have done that differently had we been unschooling at the time!!! I don't mind the nudity, actually love being naked. Am trying to get them to talk to each other about it, sharing feelings etc.
So, daughter says, "You just spent money on books (unschooling books, about $68 on Amazon) you could have used that money to send me to private school." I feel crazy when she says this! I've got about $100 spare change to spend each month, not $1,000. I've explained this to her. I am at home because that is the healthiest thing for me, with rheumatoid arthritis and the general home and family care that I do. Working full time is too overwhelming, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. I talk to her about the costs of private school, to which she continues to respond that I could get her in and pay for it if I worked at getting a scholarship. She would have gotten in to one school, but they had no more room for girls and I am guessing that we still would have had some tuition, even if we got financial aid. All that said, there is something deeper here, and I am having a hard time with it!!!
Her favorite TV shows are Neds Declassified and that show about the boarding school in southern california. She loves the idea of boarding school and last year we went through a long discussion about her desire to go to boarding school.
I really want a healthy relationship with her and with my son and between the three of us and with hubby and all around.
I feel like we are going to have to go through some sticky muck before we make it onto dry land. Just trying to figure out how to handle the muck and make something beautiful out of it. Thanks for your help in doing that! Would love more comments.
Love,
Elli
Thanks for all of your thoughtful responses.
Great conversation about the nudity and sibling relationships. I'd say they have strained relationships - son had 5 open-heart surgeries conducted out-of-state plus numerous in-state medical procedures and hospitalizations from age 3 - 6 while daughter stayed home with grandma and went about the business of being in school. Would have done that differently had we been unschooling at the time!!! I don't mind the nudity, actually love being naked. Am trying to get them to talk to each other about it, sharing feelings etc.
So, daughter says, "You just spent money on books (unschooling books, about $68 on Amazon) you could have used that money to send me to private school." I feel crazy when she says this! I've got about $100 spare change to spend each month, not $1,000. I've explained this to her. I am at home because that is the healthiest thing for me, with rheumatoid arthritis and the general home and family care that I do. Working full time is too overwhelming, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. I talk to her about the costs of private school, to which she continues to respond that I could get her in and pay for it if I worked at getting a scholarship. She would have gotten in to one school, but they had no more room for girls and I am guessing that we still would have had some tuition, even if we got financial aid. All that said, there is something deeper here, and I am having a hard time with it!!!
Her favorite TV shows are Neds Declassified and that show about the boarding school in southern california. She loves the idea of boarding school and last year we went through a long discussion about her desire to go to boarding school.
I really want a healthy relationship with her and with my son and between the three of us and with hubby and all around.
I feel like we are going to have to go through some sticky muck before we make it onto dry land. Just trying to figure out how to handle the muck and make something beautiful out of it. Thanks for your help in doing that! Would love more comments.
Love,
Elli
swissarmy_wife
--- In [email protected], "sistergoddesselli" <elinorsparks@...> wrote:
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I've explained this to her. I am at home because that is the healthiest thing for me, with rheumatoid arthritis and the general home and family care that I do. Working full time is too overwhelming, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. I talk to her about the costs of private school, to which she continues to respond that I could get her in and pay for it if I worked at getting a scholarship. She would have gotten in to one school, but they had no more room for girls and I am guessing that we still would have had some tuition, even if we got financial aid. All that said, there is something deeper here, and I am having a hard time with it!!!
******Maybe she is feeling that you aren't taking her needs seriously? That you aren't willing to help her work toward her goal? Private school may not be an option, but what IS an option? It does sound like she's had an awful lot of "no's". Can you brainstorm some yesses?
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> Great conversation about the nudity and sibling relationships. I'd say they have strained relationships - son had 5 open-heart surgeries conducted out-of-state plus numerous in-state medical procedures and hospitalizations from age 3 - 6 while daughter stayed home with grandma and went about the business of being in school. Would have done that differently had we been unschooling at the time!!! I don't mind the nudity, actually love being naked. Am trying to get them to talk to each other about it, sharing feelings etc.******well, I think this explains why she is requiring so much of your attention! <g>
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> So, daughter says, "You just spent money on books (unschooling books, about $68 on Amazon) you could have used that money to send me to private school." I feel crazy when she says this! I've got about $100 spare change to spend each month, not $1,000.******just like anything else, some children have more of an understanding of money then others. My oldest son (who is almost 11) does not quite understand money, and often complains about it. He is a very intense personality wants instant gratification. I do my best to meet this need, but it can be frustrating sometimes. One thing we have done, is set up a bank account for him, and we keep his transaction register on the wall where he can see it. We live around the corner from the bank so each time he receives money or his allowance, we will all walk to the bank together and make deposits. (he LOVES this!) Being able to have and spend his own money, and see the transactions on the wall has helped him gain more of an understanding of where money goes.
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I've explained this to her. I am at home because that is the healthiest thing for me, with rheumatoid arthritis and the general home and family care that I do. Working full time is too overwhelming, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. I talk to her about the costs of private school, to which she continues to respond that I could get her in and pay for it if I worked at getting a scholarship. She would have gotten in to one school, but they had no more room for girls and I am guessing that we still would have had some tuition, even if we got financial aid. All that said, there is something deeper here, and I am having a hard time with it!!!
******Maybe she is feeling that you aren't taking her needs seriously? That you aren't willing to help her work toward her goal? Private school may not be an option, but what IS an option? It does sound like she's had an awful lot of "no's". Can you brainstorm some yesses?
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