Video games revisited
Vickisue Gray
I'm curious if anyone here has read this book: "Video Games and Your Kids: How Parents Stay in Control" because in another group I'm in, they are going off on how video games are 'rewiring' kids brains and 'how evil' they are. I haven't read the book but did find this article discussing it; http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/video-games-and-your-kids/
This article is crazy to me as what they list as problems from video games, to me, seem more like problems of not being an involved parent; 'kids are missing out on social interaction', 'we are having some concerns about brain development of young children, when they’re playing the games.', 'they don’t even have the vocabulary of kids who don’t play video games.'
And this one which seems to me more of a control issue then a game issue:
'But it turns out that my oldest son was given a Nintendo DS by his cousin, who’s his best friend. If it had been an adult I would have said we’re not comfortable with this, but because it was a child, I wasn’t comfortable with not accepting the gift. It’s brought an element into my home that I did not want to have. It’s brought pushing boundaries, hiding types of behavior, dishonesty, not respecting the limits.'
I've read what Sandra and Joyce have to say about video games and agree that computers are just another tool or resource or a form of entertainment. None of my kids have suffered from exposure so I was a bit surprised at the strong hatred these other parents had for this stuff. Am I worng? This article seems to blame games instead of the true issues of parent involvement and respect.
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This article is crazy to me as what they list as problems from video games, to me, seem more like problems of not being an involved parent; 'kids are missing out on social interaction', 'we are having some concerns about brain development of young children, when they’re playing the games.', 'they don’t even have the vocabulary of kids who don’t play video games.'
And this one which seems to me more of a control issue then a game issue:
'But it turns out that my oldest son was given a Nintendo DS by his cousin, who’s his best friend. If it had been an adult I would have said we’re not comfortable with this, but because it was a child, I wasn’t comfortable with not accepting the gift. It’s brought an element into my home that I did not want to have. It’s brought pushing boundaries, hiding types of behavior, dishonesty, not respecting the limits.'
I've read what Sandra and Joyce have to say about video games and agree that computers are just another tool or resource or a form of entertainment. None of my kids have suffered from exposure so I was a bit surprised at the strong hatred these other parents had for this stuff. Am I worng? This article seems to blame games instead of the true issues of parent involvement and respect.
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy Curry
I haven't read that particular book yet and it has been added to my reading list. But I have sympathy with you regarding your other group. I am on several general homeschooling groups and more and more I am finding less and less in common with the folks there. I am also finding myself cringing and recoiling when I read some of their ways of controlling their kids. I will acknowledge that some of the things I have been guilty of in the past, well except the one gentleman that suggested using food as a punishment by withholding it, but my way of thinking and being is so different than it was in August of last year when we began. I have been considering it time to drop the groups where I do not agree with their ways of handling things. Trying to be a reasonable voice among people who have so many fears about raising their children or dealing things like video games, food, tv time, etc. is not worth my or my children's time. It does take away from the kids
if I sit and try and explain to people that they are basing their information on fear mongering data put out to encourage people to control, manipulate and coerce their kids into being the perfect citizen. They refuse to see it that way. If the discussion were reasonable and well founded thoughts were being used instead of hysteria it might be a different thing. You and I or anyone else who thinks along the same lines are not going to be able to change their way of thinking. That status quo is too ingrained. They are stuck in the mindset of public schooling and refuse to leave it behind. Oh well, my kids are happy, we are enjoying life and taking one moment at a time. :)
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."
Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
if I sit and try and explain to people that they are basing their information on fear mongering data put out to encourage people to control, manipulate and coerce their kids into being the perfect citizen. They refuse to see it that way. If the discussion were reasonable and well founded thoughts were being used instead of hysteria it might be a different thing. You and I or anyone else who thinks along the same lines are not going to be able to change their way of thinking. That status quo is too ingrained. They are stuck in the mindset of public schooling and refuse to leave it behind. Oh well, my kids are happy, we are enjoying life and taking one moment at a time. :)
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."
Rachel Carson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Verna
I havnt read the book, and I glanced over the interview you cited. Personnally, I dont think you can make many of the connections they are making. Like that comment about kids entering school with antisocial behaviors being linked to video games... perhaps they are not ready to be away from their families at that age..
I have four kids, they have had unlimited video games since they were little little... the oldest is just 7, the youngest 4. I have one that uses video games as an escape... when i see him getting overwhelmed, after being out with others all day, or even when people are over and he is had too much social interation, i will even suggest he get on a game or computer. If he were in school, I would almost bet he would come home and play all afternoon and evening to decompress. But since he is not, he plays somedays for a few hours and others none at all. That being said, for the most part video games are a very social activity in this house. We have lots of multiplayer games and aside from that one son, the rest rarely play alone. This is their choice, not mine. The older two have gameboy advances that they bought with their christmas money, that they rarely play, cause they have told me, they dont have a cord that lets them play together.
I dont know about the vocabulary thing or rewiring the brain etc.. I personnally, think my kids vocabularies and wiring is just what it should be.
I have four kids, they have had unlimited video games since they were little little... the oldest is just 7, the youngest 4. I have one that uses video games as an escape... when i see him getting overwhelmed, after being out with others all day, or even when people are over and he is had too much social interation, i will even suggest he get on a game or computer. If he were in school, I would almost bet he would come home and play all afternoon and evening to decompress. But since he is not, he plays somedays for a few hours and others none at all. That being said, for the most part video games are a very social activity in this house. We have lots of multiplayer games and aside from that one son, the rest rarely play alone. This is their choice, not mine. The older two have gameboy advances that they bought with their christmas money, that they rarely play, cause they have told me, they dont have a cord that lets them play together.
I dont know about the vocabulary thing or rewiring the brain etc.. I personnally, think my kids vocabularies and wiring is just what it should be.
Betj
My son has played since he was very young! I think he started my old Duck Hunt about 2. He plays to calm down. It has helped with reading. He also assists other players on Xbox Live to rank up and make maps. He is kind, compassionate, has a great sense of humor, plays soccer and cello. I think they must be right, think the games ruined him. LOL
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Verna" <lalow@...>
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 14:06:50
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Video games revisited
I havnt read the book, and I glanced over the interview you cited. Personnally, I dont think you can make many of the connections they are making. Like that comment about kids entering school with antisocial behaviors being linked to video games... perhaps they are not ready to be away from their families at that age..
I have four kids, they have had unlimited video games since they were little little... the oldest is just 7, the youngest 4. I have one that uses video games as an escape... when i see him getting overwhelmed, after being out with others all day, or even when people are over and he is had too much social interation, i will even suggest he get on a game or computer. If he were in school, I would almost bet he would come home and play all afternoon and evening to decompress. But since he is not, he plays somedays for a few hours and others none at all. That being said, for the most part video games are a very social activity in this house. We have lots of multiplayer games and aside from that one son, the rest rarely play alone. This is their choice, not mine. The older two have gameboy advances that they bought with their christmas money, that they rarely play, cause they have told me, they dont have a cord that lets them play together.
I dont know about the vocabulary thing or rewiring the brain etc.. I personnally, think my kids vocabularies and wiring is just what it should be.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Verna" <lalow@...>
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 14:06:50
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Video games revisited
I havnt read the book, and I glanced over the interview you cited. Personnally, I dont think you can make many of the connections they are making. Like that comment about kids entering school with antisocial behaviors being linked to video games... perhaps they are not ready to be away from their families at that age..
I have four kids, they have had unlimited video games since they were little little... the oldest is just 7, the youngest 4. I have one that uses video games as an escape... when i see him getting overwhelmed, after being out with others all day, or even when people are over and he is had too much social interation, i will even suggest he get on a game or computer. If he were in school, I would almost bet he would come home and play all afternoon and evening to decompress. But since he is not, he plays somedays for a few hours and others none at all. That being said, for the most part video games are a very social activity in this house. We have lots of multiplayer games and aside from that one son, the rest rarely play alone. This is their choice, not mine. The older two have gameboy advances that they bought with their christmas money, that they rarely play, cause they have told me, they dont have a cord that lets them play together.
I dont know about the vocabulary thing or rewiring the brain etc.. I personnally, think my kids vocabularies and wiring is just what it should be.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mmsre76
"Itâs brought pushing boundaries, hiding types of behavior, dishonesty, not respecting the limits."
-When I was limiting video games and tv, I had the same problems with my sons. It's actually one of the reasons we decided to give unschooling a try. I didn't like feeling like a policeman, running around the house telling them to turn it off, finding them hiding in their room playing it. That attitude was horrible for our relationships and very stressful. Our house and life is so much more peaceful now. My sons feel more respected because I recognize their interests and allow them to pursue them. I can understand the fear though- we are told as parents that video games rot their brains and we are horrible parents if we let them play more than a certain amount a day. I'm glad to be not be living under that fear or pressure anymore!
-When I was limiting video games and tv, I had the same problems with my sons. It's actually one of the reasons we decided to give unschooling a try. I didn't like feeling like a policeman, running around the house telling them to turn it off, finding them hiding in their room playing it. That attitude was horrible for our relationships and very stressful. Our house and life is so much more peaceful now. My sons feel more respected because I recognize their interests and allow them to pursue them. I can understand the fear though- we are told as parents that video games rot their brains and we are horrible parents if we let them play more than a certain amount a day. I'm glad to be not be living under that fear or pressure anymore!
Professional Parenting
There is not enough rigorous research on the effects of video games on children's brains. There are books put out by people who are guilty of fear mongering based on faulty opinions, anecdotes and biases, and studies put out by the entertainment industry itself which may have built in bias. We have yet to have any studies on the effects of gaming by independent groups in health, mental health and addictions. The truth is that the technology is so young, we have no real data to study yet.
Period.
Judy Arnall
Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of Canadian Bestseller:
Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
Website www.professionalparenting.ca
Speaker Bio: http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
Tele: (403) 714-6766
Email jarnall@...
Parenting is the best job in the world and the hardest! If you would like a daily parenting tip/strategy/affirmation/support
please follow me www.twitter.com/JudyArnall
or my Amazon Blog http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/A1R7S822XSIVBA/ref=cm_blog_dp_artist_blog
or my Youtube Channel www.youtube.com/parentproblemsolver
Period.
Judy Arnall
Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of Canadian Bestseller:
Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
Website www.professionalparenting.ca
Speaker Bio: http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
Tele: (403) 714-6766
Email jarnall@...
Parenting is the best job in the world and the hardest! If you would like a daily parenting tip/strategy/affirmation/support
please follow me www.twitter.com/JudyArnall
or my Amazon Blog http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/A1R7S822XSIVBA/ref=cm_blog_dp_artist_blog
or my Youtube Channel www.youtube.com/parentproblemsolver
----- Original Message -----
From: Vickisue Gray
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 7:23 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Video games revisited
I'm curious if anyone here has read this book: "Video Games and Your Kids: How Parents Stay in Control" because in another group I'm in, they are going off on how video games are 'rewiring' kids brains and 'how evil' they are. I haven't read the book but did find this article discussing it; http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/video-games-and-your-kids/
This article is crazy to me as what they list as problems from video games, to me, seem more like problems of not being an involved parent; 'kids are missing out on social interaction', 'we are having some concerns about brain development of young children, when they’re playing the games.', 'they don’t even have the vocabulary of kids who don’t play video games.'
And this one which seems to me more of a control issue then a game issue:
'But it turns out that my oldest son was given a Nintendo DS by his cousin, who’s his best friend. If it had been an adult I would have said we’re not comfortable with this, but because it was a child, I wasn’t comfortable with not accepting the gift. It’s brought an element into my home that I did not want to have. It’s brought pushing boundaries, hiding types of behavior, dishonesty, not respecting the limits.'
I've read what Sandra and Joyce have to say about video games and agree that computers are just another tool or resource or a form of entertainment. None of my kids have suffered from exposure so I was a bit surprised at the strong hatred these other parents had for this stuff. Am I worng? This article seems to blame games instead of the true issues of parent involvement and respect.
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
Thank you ladies for the replies. =) It's nice to know I'm not alone in seeing this differently. I've dropped most of my groups, but I've held onto the ones that have supplied great links and books and such. I just need to remind myself it's not my job to 'fix' everyone, lol, if only I could, their children would be happier. I'm so glad this list exists to remind me that there's a much better way to raise our kids.
Thanks!
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks!
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betj
I'm with you. Nice to hear something other than "You need to stop letting him get away with so much."!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:15:36
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Video games revisited
Thank you ladies for the replies. =)� It's nice to know I'm not alone in seeing this differently.� I've dropped most of my groups, but I've held onto the ones that have supplied great links and books and such.� I just need to remind myself it's not my job to 'fix' everyone, lol, if only I could, their children would be happier.�� I'm so glad this list exists to remind me that there's a much better way to raise our kids.
Thanks!
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:15:36
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Video games revisited
Thank you ladies for the replies. =)� It's nice to know I'm not alone in seeing this differently.� I've dropped most of my groups, but I've held onto the ones that have supplied great links and books and such.� I just need to remind myself it's not my job to 'fix' everyone, lol, if only I could, their children would be happier.�� I'm so glad this list exists to remind me that there's a much better way to raise our kids.
Thanks!
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
Everything you pulled out of there seems more about reactions to
authoritarian parenting rather than video games themselves. My sweet
ds6 is in his room playing Halo 3 and watching Bob the Builder. I was
in there watching him a few minutes ago and chatting about what he was
doing. He has never had to sneak a game or hide what he was doing from
me. In fact one day he was playing Saints Row 2 with some slightly
older boys from the neighborhood (all schooled) and I was in the same
room. He unabashedly informed them all that they could make sex in the
game. They all tried to hush him up because I might hear. I grinned
when he said "why my mom knows what sex is."
Video games often require a broad vocabulary to play. My ds6 plays
lots of games that are considered mature. Many of them, such as WoW
requires learning new words.
Ok so I am laughing about the not respecting limits part :-) who's
limits? Limits on how much VGs they can play? Limits on what type of
VGs they can play?
Faith
Sent from my iPhone -so sorry if it's hard to read
On May 6, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...>
wrote:
authoritarian parenting rather than video games themselves. My sweet
ds6 is in his room playing Halo 3 and watching Bob the Builder. I was
in there watching him a few minutes ago and chatting about what he was
doing. He has never had to sneak a game or hide what he was doing from
me. In fact one day he was playing Saints Row 2 with some slightly
older boys from the neighborhood (all schooled) and I was in the same
room. He unabashedly informed them all that they could make sex in the
game. They all tried to hush him up because I might hear. I grinned
when he said "why my mom knows what sex is."
Video games often require a broad vocabulary to play. My ds6 plays
lots of games that are considered mature. Many of them, such as WoW
requires learning new words.
Ok so I am laughing about the not respecting limits part :-) who's
limits? Limits on how much VGs they can play? Limits on what type of
VGs they can play?
Faith
Sent from my iPhone -so sorry if it's hard to read
On May 6, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...>
wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> I'm curious if anyone here has read this book: "Video Games and Your
> Kids: How Parents Stay in Control" because in another group I'm in,
> they are going off on how video games are 'rewiring' kids brains and
> 'how evil' they are. I haven't read the book but did find this
> article discussing it; http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/video-games-and-your-kids/
>
> This article is crazy to me as what they list as problems from video
> games, to me, seem more like problems of not being an involved
> parent; 'kids are missing out on social interaction', 'we are
> having some concerns about brain development of young children, when
> they’re playing the games.', 'they don’t even have the vocabulary
> of kids who don’t play video games.'
>
> And this one which seems to me more of a control issue then a game
> issue:
> 'But it turns out that my oldest son was given a Nintendo DS by his
> cousin, who’s his best friend. If it had been an adult I would have
> said we’re not comfortable with this, but because it was a child, I
> wasn’t comfortable with not accepting the gift. It’s brought an
> element into my home that I did not want to have. It’s brought pushi
> ng boundaries, hiding types of behavior, dishonesty, not respecting
> the limits.'
>
> I've read what Sandra and Joyce have to say about video games and
> agree that computers are just another tool or resource or a form of
> entertainment. None of my kids have suffered from exposure so I was
> a bit surprised at the strong hatred these other parents had for
> this stuff. Am I worng? This article seems to blame games instead
> of the true issues of parent involvement and respect.
>
> Vicki
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Faith Void
I meant to add that this is showing kids that it is ok to blame and
scapegoat.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On May 6, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...>
wrote:
scapegoat.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On May 6, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...>
wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> I'm curious if anyone here has read this book: "Video Games and Your
> Kids: How Parents Stay in Control" because in another group I'm in,
> they are going off on how video games are 'rewiring' kids brains and
> 'how evil' they are. I haven't read the book but did find this
> article discussing it; http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/video-games-and-your-kids/
>
> This article is crazy to me as what they list as problems from video
> games, to me, seem more like problems of not being an involved
> parent; 'kids are missing out on social interaction', 'we are
> having some concerns about brain development of young children, when
> they’re playing the games.', 'they don’t even have the vocabulary
> of kids who don’t play video games.'
>
> And this one which seems to me more of a control issue then a game
> issue:
> 'But it turns out that my oldest son was given a Nintendo DS by his
> cousin, who’s his best friend. If it had been an adult I would have
> said we’re not comfortable with this, but because it was a child, I
> wasn’t comfortable with not accepting the gift. It’s brought an
> element into my home that I did not want to have. It’s brought pushi
> ng boundaries, hiding types of behavior, dishonesty, not respecting
> the limits.'
>
> I've read what Sandra and Joyce have to say about video games and
> agree that computers are just another tool or resource or a form of
> entertainment. None of my kids have suffered from exposure so I was
> a bit surprised at the strong hatred these other parents had for
> this stuff. Am I worng? This article seems to blame games instead
> of the true issues of parent involvement and respect.
>
> Vicki
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Vickisue Gray
ROFL!!! Thanks Faith!!!
I love this line 'They all tried to hush him up because I might hear. I grinned when he said "why my mom knows what sex is."
That's so awesome!!
It also makes me happy that my son's Guild in WoW has no issues with the younger players. I hadn't realized kids were playing as young as 6 though. The youngest I've personally come across was 8. Once again, proof that only in schools are people segregated by age.
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I love this line 'They all tried to hush him up because I might hear. I grinned when he said "why my mom knows what sex is."
That's so awesome!!
It also makes me happy that my son's Guild in WoW has no issues with the younger players. I hadn't realized kids were playing as young as 6 though. The youngest I've personally come across was 8. Once again, proof that only in schools are people segregated by age.
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
My sons play video games as well. My oldest, who's 8, absolutely loves them and my 5 yr old enjoys them as well. The only thing I don't allow is "most" of the M games because of so much bad language, but video games are entertainment and my boys are respectable, kind children who are very smart if I do say so. Video games haven't seemed to destroy my kids or interfered with how well they do their school work!!
Faith Void
Personally, I don't require research on children in order to feel
confident about my children's gaming, computer, or TV time. I don't
need 'professionals' to tell me what to think and how to behave. I
know my children. I watch them, play with them, interact with them. I
am a huge part of their lives. Everything has effects on anyones brain
development. So of course video games will have some affect.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On May 6, 2009, at 12:43 PM, "Professional Parenting"
<jarnall@...> wrote:
confident about my children's gaming, computer, or TV time. I don't
need 'professionals' to tell me what to think and how to behave. I
know my children. I watch them, play with them, interact with them. I
am a huge part of their lives. Everything has effects on anyones brain
development. So of course video games will have some affect.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On May 6, 2009, at 12:43 PM, "Professional Parenting"
<jarnall@...> wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> There is not enough rigorous research on the effects of video games
> on children's brains. There are books put out by people who are
> guilty of fear mongering based on faulty opinions, anecdotes and
> biases, and studies put out by the entertainment industry itself
> which may have built in bias. We have yet to have any studies on the
> effects of gaming by independent groups in health, mental health and
> addictions. The truth is that the technology is so young, we have no
> real data to study yet.
> Period.
>
> Judy Arnall
> Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of Canadian Bestseller:
> Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
> Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
> Website www.professionalparenting.ca
> Speaker Bio: http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
> Tele: (403) 714-6766
> Email jarnall@...
> Parenting is the best job in the world and the hardest! If you would
> like a daily parenting tip/strategy/affirmation/support
> please follow me www.twitter.com/JudyArnall
> or my Amazon Blog http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/A1R7S822XSIVBA/ref=cm_blog_dp_artist_blog
> or my Youtube Channel www.youtube.com/parentproblemsolver
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vickisue Gray
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 7:23 AM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Video games revisited
>
> I'm curious if anyone here has read this book: "Video Games and Your
> Kids: How Parents Stay in Control" because in another group I'm in,
> they are going off on how video games are 'rewiring' kids brains and
> 'how evil' they are. I haven't read the book but did find this
> article discussing it; http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/video-games-and-your-kids/
>
> This article is crazy to me as what they list as problems from video
> games, to me, seem more like problems of not being an involved
> parent; 'kids are missing out on social interaction', 'we are having
> some concerns about brain development of young children, when they’r
> e playing the games.', 'they don’t even have the vocabulary of kids
> who don’t play video games.'
>
> And this one which seems to me more of a control issue then a game
> issue:
> 'But it turns out that my oldest son was given a Nintendo DS by his
> cousin, who’s his best friend. If it had been an adult I would have
> said we’re not comfortable with this, but because it was a child, I
> wasn’t comfortable with not accepting the gift. It’s brought an
> element into my home that I did not want to have. It’s brought pushi
> ng boundaries, hiding types of behavior, dishonesty, not respecting
> the limits.'
>
> I've read what Sandra and Joyce have to say about video games and
> agree that computers are just another tool or resource or a form of
> entertainment. None of my kids have suffered from exposure so I was
> a bit surprised at the strong hatred these other parents had for
> this stuff. Am I worng? This article seems to blame games instead of
> the true issues of parent involvement and respect.
>
> Vicki
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Robin Bentley
On May 6, 2009, at 9:43 AM, Professional Parenting wrote:
"Everything Bad is Good for You - How Today's Popular Culture is
Actually Making Us Smarter" by Steven Johnson and writings by Marc
Prensky http://www.marcprensky.com/default.asp
I don't find it helpful to read books that have mainstream parenting
as a starting point. I don't think that way anymore.
Robin B.
> There is not enough rigorous research on the effects of video gamesYes. And for some views from another side (not just unschoolers) read
> on children's brains. There are books put out by people who are
> guilty of fear mongering based on faulty opinions, anecdotes and
> biases, and studies put out by the entertainment industry itself
> which may have built in bias. We have yet to have any studies on the
> effects of gaming by independent groups in health, mental health and
> addictions. The truth is that the technology is so young, we have no
> real data to study yet.
> Period.
>
"Everything Bad is Good for You - How Today's Popular Culture is
Actually Making Us Smarter" by Steven Johnson and writings by Marc
Prensky http://www.marcprensky.com/default.asp
I don't find it helpful to read books that have mainstream parenting
as a starting point. I don't think that way anymore.
Robin B.
Robin Bentley
> My sons play video games as well. My oldest, who's 8, absolutelyThis is good, up to here.
> loves them and my 5 yr old enjoys them as well.
Then:
> The only thing I don't allow is "most" of the M games because of so"Don't allow" and "school work" are not mentioned on unschooling lists
> much bad language, but video games are entertainment and my boys are
> respectable, kind children who are very smart if I do say so. Video
> games haven't seemed to destroy my kids or interfered with how well
> they do their school work!!
as good or desirable things. Video games are not just entertainment,
either.
Especially for new unschoolers, reading this paragraph as it stands
will not help them to understand unschooling. Would you like to
elaborate on it?
Robin B.
Professional Parenting
I don't either. :-) None of the current research reflects my kids at all.
"Typical research (and I'm emmersed in it because I attend professional development conferences as a part of my work as a parent educator)
is done on typical kids in North American culture and school." The bias is very evident.
Judy Arnall
Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of Canadian Bestseller:
Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
Website www.professionalparenting.ca
Speaker Bio: http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
Tele: (403) 714-6766
Email jarnall@...
Parenting is the best job in the world and the hardest! If you would like a daily parenting tip/strategy/affirmation/support
please follow me www.twitter.com/JudyArnall
or my Amazon Blog http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/A1R7S822XSIVBA/ref=cm_blog_dp_artist_blog
or my Youtube Channel www.youtube.com/parentproblemsolver
"Typical research (and I'm emmersed in it because I attend professional development conferences as a part of my work as a parent educator)
is done on typical kids in North American culture and school." The bias is very evident.
Judy Arnall
Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of Canadian Bestseller:
Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
Website www.professionalparenting.ca
Speaker Bio: http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
Tele: (403) 714-6766
Email jarnall@...
Parenting is the best job in the world and the hardest! If you would like a daily parenting tip/strategy/affirmation/support
please follow me www.twitter.com/JudyArnall
or my Amazon Blog http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/A1R7S822XSIVBA/ref=cm_blog_dp_artist_blog
or my Youtube Channel www.youtube.com/parentproblemsolver
----- Original Message -----
From: Faith Void
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Video games revisited
Personally, I don't require research on children in order to feel
confident about my children's gaming, computer, or TV time. I don't
need 'professionals' to tell me what to think and how to behave. I
know my children. I watch them, play with them, interact with them. I
am a huge part of their lives. Everything has effects on anyones brain
development. So of course video games will have some affect.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On May 6, 2009, at 12:43 PM, "Professional Parenting"
<jarnall@...> wrote:
>
>
> There is not enough rigorous research on the effects of video games
> on children's brains. There are books put out by people who are
> guilty of fear mongering based on faulty opinions, anecdotes and
> biases, and studies put out by the entertainment industry itself
> which may have built in bias. We have yet to have any studies on the
> effects of gaming by independent groups in health, mental health and
> addictions. The truth is that the technology is so young, we have no
> real data to study yet.
> Period.
>
> Judy Arnall
> Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of Canadian Bestseller:
> Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
> Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
> Website www.professionalparenting.ca
> Speaker Bio: http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
> Tele: (403) 714-6766
> Email jarnall@...
> Parenting is the best job in the world and the hardest! If you would
> like a daily parenting tip/strategy/affirmation/support
> please follow me www.twitter.com/JudyArnall
> or my Amazon Blog http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/A1R7S822XSIVBA/ref=cm_blog_dp_artist_blog
> or my Youtube Channel www.youtube.com/parentproblemsolver
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vickisue Gray
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 7:23 AM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Video games revisited
>
> I'm curious if anyone here has read this book: "Video Games and Your
> Kids: How Parents Stay in Control" because in another group I'm in,
> they are going off on how video games are 'rewiring' kids brains and
> 'how evil' they are. I haven't read the book but did find this
> article discussing it; http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/video-games-and-your-kids/
>
> This article is crazy to me as what they list as problems from video
> games, to me, seem more like problems of not being an involved
> parent; 'kids are missing out on social interaction', 'we are having
> some concerns about brain development of young children, when they’r
> e playing the games.', 'they don’t even have the vocabulary of kids
> who don’t play video games.'
>
> And this one which seems to me more of a control issue then a game
> issue:
> 'But it turns out that my oldest son was given a Nintendo DS by his
> cousin, who’s his best friend. If it had been an adult I would have
> said we’re not comfortable with this, but because it was a child, I
> wasn’t comfortable with not accepting the gift. It’s brought an
> element into my home that I did not want to have. It’s brought pushi
> ng boundaries, hiding types of behavior, dishonesty, not respecting
> the limits.'
>
> I've read what Sandra and Joyce have to say about video games and
> agree that computers are just another tool or resource or a form of
> entertainment. None of my kids have suffered from exposure so I was
> a bit surprised at the strong hatred these other parents had for
> this stuff. Am I worng? This article seems to blame games instead of
> the true issues of parent involvement and respect.
>
> Vicki
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
> That being said, for the most part video games are a very socialactivity in this house. We have lots of multiplayer games and aside from
that one son, the rest rarely play alone. This is their choice, not
mine. The older two have gameboy advances that they bought with their
christmas money, that they rarely play, cause they have told me, they
dont have a cord that lets them play together.
DS (nearly 11) deliberately seeks out multi-player games for the PS2 and
PS3. The very few single player games we've got are still social events
because they generally involved one person watching the other person do
crazy stuff - like parking their motorcycle crossways in the path of the
oncoming pickup so they can watch the pieces fly and bounce when it hits
(it's a race game designed for 'winning' but they prefer to try
improbable jumps and lots of crashes because that's more fun).
I'd suggest looking into getting the connector for the GBAs - it can't
be more than a few dollars (used or new) since that is now several
generations back (GBA-> GBA SP-> DS-> DSi) Or, look into trading those
in (at GameStop and similar places) toward getting a pair of DSs (which
also should be dropping in price, especially the used ones, since many
gamers are probably turning those in for the DSi which just released so
the supply of DS systems outstripping the demand should be driving down
prices) - they communicate wirelessly which makes things a lot easier
and more comfortable (don't have to be sitting within cable range, can
get comfy wherever within a pretty good distance). GBA games can play on
a DS BUT they can't use the multi screen/touch screen configuration or
use the wireless (But again, those games can be traded in toward getting
new/used games as well - can you tell we do this a lot?lol)
Deb R
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Faith Void
I think video games are very social. Or at least tie in to being
social. LOL at just this moment my ds said. "mmmm. Somebody needs to
play with me!" he is building forts on Halo and it's much more fun for
two!
Before I go play I just wanted to add that video games are very social
around here and loud happy sounds are flowing frequently. My dream us
to open a video gaming cafe to be part of the sicialness of vg's.
On another note. Feeling like a genius because I just ordered gamefly
for my dson. He loves the newness of getting new to him games but we
can't afford to buy many $59-60 games :-) this is awesome we are so
excited!
Sent from my iPhone
On May 7, 2009, at 8:12 AM, "Debra Rossing"
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
social. LOL at just this moment my ds said. "mmmm. Somebody needs to
play with me!" he is building forts on Halo and it's much more fun for
two!
Before I go play I just wanted to add that video games are very social
around here and loud happy sounds are flowing frequently. My dream us
to open a video gaming cafe to be part of the sicialness of vg's.
On another note. Feeling like a genius because I just ordered gamefly
for my dson. He loves the newness of getting new to him games but we
can't afford to buy many $59-60 games :-) this is awesome we are so
excited!
Sent from my iPhone
On May 7, 2009, at 8:12 AM, "Debra Rossing"
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > That being said, for the most part video games are a very social
> activity in this house. We have lots of multiplayer games and aside
> from
> that one son, the rest rarely play alone. This is their choice, not
> mine. The older two have gameboy advances that they bought with their
> christmas money, that they rarely play, cause they have told me, they
> dont have a cord that lets them play together.
>
> DS (nearly 11) deliberately seeks out multi-player games for the PS2
> and
> PS3. The very few single player games we've got are still social
> events
> because they generally involved one person watching the other person
> do
> crazy stuff - like parking their motorcycle crossways in the path of
> the
> oncoming pickup so they can watch the pieces fly and bounce when it
> hits
> (it's a race game designed for 'winning' but they prefer to try
> improbable jumps and lots of crashes because that's more fun).
>
> I'd suggest looking into getting the connector for the GBAs - it can't
> be more than a few dollars (used or new) since that is now several
> generations back (GBA-> GBA SP-> DS-> DSi) Or, look into trading those
> in (at GameStop and similar places) toward getting a pair of DSs
> (which
> also should be dropping in price, especially the used ones, since many
> gamers are probably turning those in for the DSi which just released
> so
> the supply of DS systems outstripping the demand should be driving
> down
> prices) - they communicate wirelessly which makes things a lot easier
> and more comfortable (don't have to be sitting within cable range, can
> get comfy wherever within a pretty good distance). GBA games can
> play on
> a DS BUT they can't use the multi screen/touch screen configuration or
> use the wireless (But again, those games can be traded in toward
> getting
> new/used games as well - can you tell we do this a lot?lol)
>
> Deb R
>
>
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>
>
swissarmy_wife
--- In [email protected], "barbaracolwell@..." <barbaracolwell@...> wrote:
=======================================================================
but video games are entertainment
******True, but they are also tools for learning
=======================================================================
and my boys are respectable, kind children who are very smart if I do say so.
******that's great, but why? because you shield them from certain video games? doubtful. I would say my children are respectable and kind as well, but they have no limits of video game content.
======================================================================
Video games haven't seemed to destroy my kids or interfered with how well they do their school work!!
******Are you unschooling? The words "school work" caught my eye. Unschoolers tend to let go of school work, and many see it as antithetical to the unschooling lifestyle.
-Heather
======================================================================
>******What are you afraid of if they hear "bad" language? Language is only "bad" if you prohibit it or hide them from it.
> My sons play video games as well. My oldest, who's 8, absolutely loves them and my 5 yr old enjoys them as well. The only thing I don't allow is "most" of the M games because of so much bad language,
=======================================================================
but video games are entertainment
******True, but they are also tools for learning
=======================================================================
and my boys are respectable, kind children who are very smart if I do say so.
******that's great, but why? because you shield them from certain video games? doubtful. I would say my children are respectable and kind as well, but they have no limits of video game content.
======================================================================
Video games haven't seemed to destroy my kids or interfered with how well they do their school work!!
******Are you unschooling? The words "school work" caught my eye. Unschoolers tend to let go of school work, and many see it as antithetical to the unschooling lifestyle.
-Heather
======================================================================
Debra Rossing
We don't "do" M games either but it's not the language as much as DS
doesn't like the realistic splatter and such - he's fine with blasting
aliens to pieces but when it's realistic humans getting splattered
pretty gory it's disturbing to him. He's been playing "T" rated games
since he was 5 (he's nigh on 11 now) - his first games were a couple
007/James Bond games. One of the first things we did, was read/help him
read the rating section - they list why it was rated as it was "carton
violence", "blood and gore", "explicit language", etc. He knows which
things are red flags ("blood and gore", "realistic violence", etc) and
which are okay for him ("cartoon violence" for example). The interesting
thing about the 007 games was there were two modes - single player and
multi player. In single player, it was more like a Bond movie (rescuing
a scantily clad female and all) while multiplayer was lots of running
around shooting at other players' characters. DS would ask DH to work
through the single player mode to unlock scenarios and weapons and such
that they could use in multi-player: DS didn't care at all about the
single player stuff, he wanted the social part of playing WITH someone
else (he and DH often played in co-operative mode as a team against the
computer players). He got really good at running along rooftops then
jumping off and firing at his target while in free fall - how he did
that I'll never know because I kept bumping into walls and getting
killed lol He could simultaneously watch the other players' screens,
maneuver his character, aim and fire AND bounce on the mini trampoline -
whoa!
Deb R
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doesn't like the realistic splatter and such - he's fine with blasting
aliens to pieces but when it's realistic humans getting splattered
pretty gory it's disturbing to him. He's been playing "T" rated games
since he was 5 (he's nigh on 11 now) - his first games were a couple
007/James Bond games. One of the first things we did, was read/help him
read the rating section - they list why it was rated as it was "carton
violence", "blood and gore", "explicit language", etc. He knows which
things are red flags ("blood and gore", "realistic violence", etc) and
which are okay for him ("cartoon violence" for example). The interesting
thing about the 007 games was there were two modes - single player and
multi player. In single player, it was more like a Bond movie (rescuing
a scantily clad female and all) while multiplayer was lots of running
around shooting at other players' characters. DS would ask DH to work
through the single player mode to unlock scenarios and weapons and such
that they could use in multi-player: DS didn't care at all about the
single player stuff, he wanted the social part of playing WITH someone
else (he and DH often played in co-operative mode as a team against the
computer players). He got really good at running along rooftops then
jumping off and firing at his target while in free fall - how he did
that I'll never know because I kept bumping into walls and getting
killed lol He could simultaneously watch the other players' screens,
maneuver his character, aim and fire AND bounce on the mini trampoline -
whoa!
Deb R
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Joyce Fetteroll
On May 8, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Debra Rossing wrote:
M games and you help him avoid the kinds of things he doesn't like
and find the kinds of things he does like.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> We don't "do" M games either but it's not the language as much as DSI think the idea will be even clearer if stated that *he* doesn't do
> doesn't like the realistic splatter and such - he's fine with blasting
> aliens to pieces but when it's realistic humans getting splattered
> pretty gory it's disturbing to him.
M games and you help him avoid the kinds of things he doesn't like
and find the kinds of things he does like.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Latha Poonamallee
I just wanted to share this story (particularly one I may not have been as sensitive to before unschooling). DS, Viyan (7) and I are in India and will be here till early August. We will be traveling in June and July when the regular school reopens here (easier all around). I found that there were a number of summer camps in the city (when I grew up, there was no such concept), researched a few so he could probably make some new friends. I found one such weeklong camp (two hours a day) interesting because they offered a combination of astronomy and yoga. One of my son's dreams is to become an astrocartographer and so I figured, let us try this one. Yesterday, I went to register for this program and had a chat with the young woman who will be running this camp and she assured me he will learn a lot and I will see a difference in him at the end of the week. I tried to re-assure that I don't want to see a change in him, he is perfect as he is, I have no
learning goals, but just to find a space for him to hang with some kids around a topic that is of interest to him. Her response to me was, "Ma'm, he will learn a lot because here learning is cleverly disguised as fun" ! I wanted to yell, "Learning is fun!" I also realized that how deeply I believe it now even more than before. I didn't want to get into a philosophical discussion with her because I know that she is used to parents who send their kids to a high priced (yuppie, preppie) place like this needing this kind of assurance. But in any case, I did put him down for the program. We'll see how it goes.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
learning goals, but just to find a space for him to hang with some kids around a topic that is of interest to him. Her response to me was, "Ma'm, he will learn a lot because here learning is cleverly disguised as fun" ! I wanted to yell, "Learning is fun!" I also realized that how deeply I believe it now even more than before. I didn't want to get into a philosophical discussion with her because I know that she is used to parents who send their kids to a high priced (yuppie, preppie) place like this needing this kind of assurance. But in any case, I did put him down for the program. We'll see how it goes.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
> I think the idea will be even clearer if stated that *he* doesn't do Mgames and you help him avoid the kinds of things he doesn't like and
find the kinds of things he does like
Well, yeah, but neither DH nor I choose M games either. To clarify: no
one in our household at the current time chooses to play/watch M rated
videogames - even DH, a 41 yr old long time gamer, chooses not to play M
rated games because they tend to be very realistically graphic and we
are all, individually, uncomfortable with that. If any one of us chose
to play an M rated game, we'd (as a family) work out ways for that
person to play in a manner that wouldn't be disturbing to the others who
don't want to see/play.
Deb R
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Marina DeLuca-Howard
>>'kids are missing out on social interaction', 'we are having >someconcerns about brain development >>of young children, when they�re playing
the games.', 'they >don�t even have the vocabulary of kids >>who don�t play
video games.'
Yup, this is the first generation since the language of England was first
transcribed, nay spoken to be sure which hath corrupted it with new words,
and we needs fear for our children. To these purveyors of fear I say...Hony
soyt qui mal y pense'. *
The arguments as far as I can see employ a term called "denying the
antecedent": there is a logical fallacy because the arguments are flawed.
We start with the premise that tv watching generation who can sit still and
do not need to interact are the norm for all humanity from time immemorial
to time infinitum. We are thus alarmed by brain changes. But I have heard
arguments that our children's interactive multi-window opening computer
gaming is closer to that of our ancestors who hunted, gathered, watched
children, and alluded predators on the African Savanna. It may be our
brains structured by radio, and later film or television media that changed
the human brain and created an anomaly.
There is a book by a Don Tapscott *Grown Up Digital: How the Net Generation
is Changing Your World* (2008). Its on my to-read list because he takes a
different look at those changes--thus drawing different conclusions on brain
changes or this generation in general. See his youtube diatribe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoqiRRMQ0fs
It is very funny!
I think all kids have the vocabulary/slang/idiolect of the reflecting
the century and region they inhabit. Our kids have vocabulary and speech
patterns which reflect the games they play, duh. I played Ms Pac on our old
Atari when I was thirteen (practically non-stop) so I don't have these
worries as the computer was a new toy we were lucky enough to own. Before
the computer I sat in front of the television, like most of my peers and my
references to the Brady Bunch, The Addams Family or whatever drivel was
oozing out of the box made little sense to adults.
Now if my kids were speaking gibberish, or possibly Elizabethan English I'd
be worried because odds are they aren't able to communicate with anyone;
whereas immersed in video jargon means they are talking to their peers.
* trans. *Evil be to him who evil thinks*
**
Marina
--
Life is always happening
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