Nursing and Unschooling
amandabpearl
I am mother to Maya, who is 2y5m, and expecting a second in late October. I'm posting to this group, since we live an RU lifestyle, and I really respect a lot of the parenting advice I read on the list. I am having a really hard time nursing Maya right now, though it is still an important part of our relationship that she is not wiling to let go of, and neither am I, though not quite to the same degree. I have always figured she would wean when she was ready, figured I would probably end up tandem nursing, and I have never minded nursing her....at this point even the very painful latches that developed in my first trimester have mostly eased up.
However, I am feeling very nutritionally drained by the long periods of night and early morning nursing...I sleep just fine, but wake feeling very exhausted from a nutritional standpoint...and I make sure that we both have a pre-bed nutritious snack involving complex carbs and protein. Also, if I get out of bed at night I make sure to have a snack. She also nurses 3-6 times a day (sometimes more), though day time is not as nutritionally rough for me, it can be more frustrating in terms of needing a short break.
I have tried to explain to Maya that the nursing sometimes hurts, or mommy needs a short break to make more milk, but she gets into hysterical tearful sessions that feel bad for both of us. I never deny her, but even suggesting a short break, or suggesting we set a timer for a 2 minute break brings a meltdown. She will also freak if after a long period, say 1 hr, of nursing i need to use the bathroom, even if she is brought along while latched...I guess I'm struggling with how to get her to understand/ be respectful of some very vital and elemental needs of mine (bathroom and nutrition)...or to know whether this is even a reasonable developmental expectation at her age.
I am a stay at home mom, and try to have lots of fun activities and distractions for her, as well as offers of food and drink first if she asks to nurse...sometimes she accepts, sometimes not. Monkey platters are always around as well.
Not sure what more I can do to get us back to a point where the nursing is working better for both of us...but all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
However, I am feeling very nutritionally drained by the long periods of night and early morning nursing...I sleep just fine, but wake feeling very exhausted from a nutritional standpoint...and I make sure that we both have a pre-bed nutritious snack involving complex carbs and protein. Also, if I get out of bed at night I make sure to have a snack. She also nurses 3-6 times a day (sometimes more), though day time is not as nutritionally rough for me, it can be more frustrating in terms of needing a short break.
I have tried to explain to Maya that the nursing sometimes hurts, or mommy needs a short break to make more milk, but she gets into hysterical tearful sessions that feel bad for both of us. I never deny her, but even suggesting a short break, or suggesting we set a timer for a 2 minute break brings a meltdown. She will also freak if after a long period, say 1 hr, of nursing i need to use the bathroom, even if she is brought along while latched...I guess I'm struggling with how to get her to understand/ be respectful of some very vital and elemental needs of mine (bathroom and nutrition)...or to know whether this is even a reasonable developmental expectation at her age.
I am a stay at home mom, and try to have lots of fun activities and distractions for her, as well as offers of food and drink first if she asks to nurse...sometimes she accepts, sometimes not. Monkey platters are always around as well.
Not sure what more I can do to get us back to a point where the nursing is working better for both of us...but all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
Tammy Curry
Have you talked to Maya about her new sibling? Does she understand that you are pregnant? Even if you haven't officially told her I am sure she has picked up on it. Let's see due in October so there should be an ultrasound coming up soon. Take her with and let her see the new baby and let her start to get used to the idea that she is going to be sharing mommy. Make her part of this wonderful time as much as you feel she can handle. Let her have the choice to help you with the new baby starting now. By letting mommy have a little break to grab a bite to eat for her little brother or sister. Also, reassure her that this does not mean she is going to "lose" mommy. Your attention will be divided especially when the new baby first comes home but she needs to feel now that you are still her mommy and that she will still have you even when the new baby gets here.
She knows something is up and is expressing it by wanting to stay completely attached. She has spent her entire life as your only one and you are the center of her world but she has probably heard you and your husband talking and picked up on the fact this will not remain so.. At her age she might not be able to express that but I would be willing to place cash on that being a part of her recent needs. :)
My daughter was 6 when her brother came into the world and she still needed a lot of reassurance that she still had my attention and that I was there for her. She had wanted a younger sibling, a brother preferably. It wasn't real for her until she got to see him on the ultrasound for the first time.
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."
Rachel Carson
________________________________
From: amandabpearl <amanda@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 10:59:43 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Nursing and Unschooling
I am mother to Maya, who is 2y5m, and expecting a second in late October. I'm posting to this group, since we live an RU lifestyle, and I really respect a lot of the parenting advice I read on the list. I am having a really hard time nursing Maya right now, though it is still an important part of our relationship that she is not wiling to let go of, and neither am I, though not quite to the same degree. I have always figured she would wean when she was ready, figured I would probably end up tandem nursing, and I have never minded nursing her....at this point even the very painful latches that developed in my first trimester have mostly eased up.
However, I am feeling very nutritionally drained by the long periods of night and early morning nursing...I sleep just fine, but wake feeling very exhausted from a nutritional standpoint.. .and I make sure that we both have a pre-bed nutritious snack involving complex carbs and protein. Also, if I get out of bed at night I make sure to have a snack. She also nurses 3-6 times a day (sometimes more), though day time is not as nutritionally rough for me, it can be more frustrating in terms of needing a short break.
I have tried to explain to Maya that the nursing sometimes hurts, or mommy needs a short break to make more milk, but she gets into hysterical tearful sessions that feel bad for both of us. I never deny her, but even suggesting a short break, or suggesting we set a timer for a 2 minute break brings a meltdown. She will also freak if after a long period, say 1 hr, of nursing i need to use the bathroom, even if she is brought along while latched...I guess I'm struggling with how to get her to understand/ be respectful of some very vital and elemental needs of mine (bathroom and nutrition).. .or to know whether this is even a reasonable developmental expectation at her age.
I am a stay at home mom, and try to have lots of fun activities and distractions for her, as well as offers of food and drink first if she asks to nurse...sometimes she accepts, sometimes not. Monkey platters are always around as well.
Not sure what more I can do to get us back to a point where the nursing is working better for both of us...but all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
She knows something is up and is expressing it by wanting to stay completely attached. She has spent her entire life as your only one and you are the center of her world but she has probably heard you and your husband talking and picked up on the fact this will not remain so.. At her age she might not be able to express that but I would be willing to place cash on that being a part of her recent needs. :)
My daughter was 6 when her brother came into the world and she still needed a lot of reassurance that she still had my attention and that I was there for her. She had wanted a younger sibling, a brother preferably. It wasn't real for her until she got to see him on the ultrasound for the first time.
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."
Rachel Carson
________________________________
From: amandabpearl <amanda@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 10:59:43 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Nursing and Unschooling
I am mother to Maya, who is 2y5m, and expecting a second in late October. I'm posting to this group, since we live an RU lifestyle, and I really respect a lot of the parenting advice I read on the list. I am having a really hard time nursing Maya right now, though it is still an important part of our relationship that she is not wiling to let go of, and neither am I, though not quite to the same degree. I have always figured she would wean when she was ready, figured I would probably end up tandem nursing, and I have never minded nursing her....at this point even the very painful latches that developed in my first trimester have mostly eased up.
However, I am feeling very nutritionally drained by the long periods of night and early morning nursing...I sleep just fine, but wake feeling very exhausted from a nutritional standpoint.. .and I make sure that we both have a pre-bed nutritious snack involving complex carbs and protein. Also, if I get out of bed at night I make sure to have a snack. She also nurses 3-6 times a day (sometimes more), though day time is not as nutritionally rough for me, it can be more frustrating in terms of needing a short break.
I have tried to explain to Maya that the nursing sometimes hurts, or mommy needs a short break to make more milk, but she gets into hysterical tearful sessions that feel bad for both of us. I never deny her, but even suggesting a short break, or suggesting we set a timer for a 2 minute break brings a meltdown. She will also freak if after a long period, say 1 hr, of nursing i need to use the bathroom, even if she is brought along while latched...I guess I'm struggling with how to get her to understand/ be respectful of some very vital and elemental needs of mine (bathroom and nutrition).. .or to know whether this is even a reasonable developmental expectation at her age.
I am a stay at home mom, and try to have lots of fun activities and distractions for her, as well as offers of food and drink first if she asks to nurse...sometimes she accepts, sometimes not. Monkey platters are always around as well.
Not sure what more I can do to get us back to a point where the nursing is working better for both of us...but all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela Wolff
Hi Amanda,
Nursing while pregnant is hard -- congrats on making it through those early sore days! In the end, you may find that having such a close nursing relationship with your daughter actually makes the transition from one child to two easier.
My first thought is that you should talk to a lactation consultant and or your midwife/OBGYN about your feeling nutritionally drained. They may be able to talk to you about what you are eating and make some suggestions about where you can make some additions/improvements so that you are getting all the energy you need to support yourself, your baby and your daughter.
As a starting point/point of comparison, I tried to roughly follow the Bradley diet during my pregnancies (I nursed throughout two of them) and it recommends 100 grams of protein every day. That's A LOT. http://www.bradleybirth.com/PD.aspx I didn't go crazy weighing and measuring, just used it as a basis for making sure I was hitting the bare minimum. Keep in mind I'm not saying this is the right diet for you, but it may help you see where you could make some changes or help you if you in preparing to talk to a lactation consultant.
Re your daughter ... first let me just say that this is all conjecture, so if any of it doesn't sound applicable, disregard it. It's hard enough to know what's going on in the brains of my own children, much less someone else's!
I'm wondering if she reacted so strongly to your wanting to take a break in your nursing sessions before you got pregnant? At 2 she's old enough to understand just about everything that is said in front of her, and I'm wondering about the kinds of "Oh just wait until the new baby comes, she's not going to know what's hit her!" or "You're not going to be able to keep nursing her that way after the baby is born" comments she may have overheard. It may not matter that you know you plan to tandem nurse, she will fill in the blanks with her own ideas of what that means. If you are committed to tandem nursing, maybe find some pictures of women tandem nursing and say something like, "Can you believe that's what we'll be doing when the new baby comes? We'll all get to snuggle together." Maybe if she can see a picture of a mother nurturing a baby and a toddler at the same time, she will be able to let go of the fear that the new baby will take her place.
My other thought is if the trouble started right after you started limiting her some. I know many people start to limit and ask their kids to wait once they hit two-ish: if they ask to nurse at the grocery store, telling them they'll have to wait until you get home, etc. Maybe she just needs some slowing down or back tracking on the limits.
I do think she is too young to understand/take into consideration your needs, but that doesn't mean that there aren't ways of transitioning her to fewer/shorter nursings if that's what you want to do.
Some things that work for some:
- get rid of one feeding at a time. start with either the one where she is the least interested or the one where you are least comfortable. If it were the first thing in the morning feeding, for example, find reasons she will like to just bound out of bed: a yummy breakfast, a fun outing, a bath, a morning walk, a craft project laid out on the table waiting for her, etc. (Of course, if that's your favorite feeding, hold on to that one as long as possible!)
- if you have a nursing spot, like a special chair, don't sit in it. She may be less likely to think to ask you to nurse if you aren't sitting in the cozy chair by the window.
- to shorten the duration, come up with a way for her to transition. Maybe it's "You can nurse while I sing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, and then we're going to do X" or "OK, almost time to stop. I'm going to count to 10 and then we're going to do X". I would be wary of using "minutes" because at 2, she doesn't know what that means. She may think a minute is a second and then stopping in 10 minutes is not long at all, so she'll protest. Similarly, if you say "I need to take a break for two minutes to go to the bathroom" but she also hears "I'll be there in just a minute, first I need to finish doing X" she may think a minute is interminably long.
- To give her some control over it, you could ask her how many sips she wants or how much she wants you to count to while she nurses.
- whatever you do, make sure you are giving her lots of snuggles and cuddles and closeness with you throughout the day.
Best of luck, and if I come up with any other suggestions, I'll let you know.
Angela
Nursing while pregnant is hard -- congrats on making it through those early sore days! In the end, you may find that having such a close nursing relationship with your daughter actually makes the transition from one child to two easier.
My first thought is that you should talk to a lactation consultant and or your midwife/OBGYN about your feeling nutritionally drained. They may be able to talk to you about what you are eating and make some suggestions about where you can make some additions/improvements so that you are getting all the energy you need to support yourself, your baby and your daughter.
As a starting point/point of comparison, I tried to roughly follow the Bradley diet during my pregnancies (I nursed throughout two of them) and it recommends 100 grams of protein every day. That's A LOT. http://www.bradleybirth.com/PD.aspx I didn't go crazy weighing and measuring, just used it as a basis for making sure I was hitting the bare minimum. Keep in mind I'm not saying this is the right diet for you, but it may help you see where you could make some changes or help you if you in preparing to talk to a lactation consultant.
Re your daughter ... first let me just say that this is all conjecture, so if any of it doesn't sound applicable, disregard it. It's hard enough to know what's going on in the brains of my own children, much less someone else's!
I'm wondering if she reacted so strongly to your wanting to take a break in your nursing sessions before you got pregnant? At 2 she's old enough to understand just about everything that is said in front of her, and I'm wondering about the kinds of "Oh just wait until the new baby comes, she's not going to know what's hit her!" or "You're not going to be able to keep nursing her that way after the baby is born" comments she may have overheard. It may not matter that you know you plan to tandem nurse, she will fill in the blanks with her own ideas of what that means. If you are committed to tandem nursing, maybe find some pictures of women tandem nursing and say something like, "Can you believe that's what we'll be doing when the new baby comes? We'll all get to snuggle together." Maybe if she can see a picture of a mother nurturing a baby and a toddler at the same time, she will be able to let go of the fear that the new baby will take her place.
My other thought is if the trouble started right after you started limiting her some. I know many people start to limit and ask their kids to wait once they hit two-ish: if they ask to nurse at the grocery store, telling them they'll have to wait until you get home, etc. Maybe she just needs some slowing down or back tracking on the limits.
I do think she is too young to understand/take into consideration your needs, but that doesn't mean that there aren't ways of transitioning her to fewer/shorter nursings if that's what you want to do.
Some things that work for some:
- get rid of one feeding at a time. start with either the one where she is the least interested or the one where you are least comfortable. If it were the first thing in the morning feeding, for example, find reasons she will like to just bound out of bed: a yummy breakfast, a fun outing, a bath, a morning walk, a craft project laid out on the table waiting for her, etc. (Of course, if that's your favorite feeding, hold on to that one as long as possible!)
- if you have a nursing spot, like a special chair, don't sit in it. She may be less likely to think to ask you to nurse if you aren't sitting in the cozy chair by the window.
- to shorten the duration, come up with a way for her to transition. Maybe it's "You can nurse while I sing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, and then we're going to do X" or "OK, almost time to stop. I'm going to count to 10 and then we're going to do X". I would be wary of using "minutes" because at 2, she doesn't know what that means. She may think a minute is a second and then stopping in 10 minutes is not long at all, so she'll protest. Similarly, if you say "I need to take a break for two minutes to go to the bathroom" but she also hears "I'll be there in just a minute, first I need to finish doing X" she may think a minute is interminably long.
- To give her some control over it, you could ask her how many sips she wants or how much she wants you to count to while she nurses.
- whatever you do, make sure you are giving her lots of snuggles and cuddles and closeness with you throughout the day.
Best of luck, and if I come up with any other suggestions, I'll let you know.
Angela
amandabpearl
Thank you Angela and Tammy for your feedback and suggestions...to respond to a couple of your ideas about our situation, Maya actually knew about the pregnancy before my husband did...she got to help me tell him. Also, the pregnancy is tangible to her, because we were visiting family in Israel who had just had a new baby when I found out I was pregnant...she is VERY into babies. Also, a close family friend with a daughter Maya's age is 5 months pregnant, so she gets to feel that baby kick and watch her stomach grow.
Maya was a home birth, and we have looked at the pictures of her birth (not graphic ones though) and she has seen photos of me pregnant with her and we talk about the baby in mommy's belly like she used to be in mommy's belly...the other day when her my husband rubbed my stomach she told him not to touch the baby. (she's a bit possessive) Also, we have watched a scientifically (as opposed to cartoon) animation of how a baby grows inside, so that she sees how it happens. She is very involved, to the degree she wishes, in the pregnancy and excited for it.
She goes to midwife visits with me, and our midwife is also a family friend, so she is someone that Maya knows and is comfortable with...she did get to hear the baby on the doppler the other day, but I'm not sure she made the connection...though it was explained she was busy nursing!
Also, Maya has always had a very high need to nurse (and is a great eater as well). The meltdowns for nursing pauses have always been an issue for us, but pre-pregnancy I could generally hold off my own needs a bit easier...I'm fairly hypoglycemic, so I've had the quick snack thing down for years, but sometimes now the hunger just creeps up on me, I have a metabolism that seems to go into overdrive when pregnant, the same thing happened when I was pregnant with Maya. (also of course as I get hungrier, I become less patient and relaxed)
Lastly, I am hesitant to tell her that I need to have a break to eat for the new baby I would rather her be mad at me than the baby. When we were in Israel we did have several people tell me (in front of her of course) that I would immediately have to stop nursing, they were told in the same conversations that that was not happening and Maya could nurse as long as she wanted, but she would still (understandably) freak out and begin nursing more frequently for a day or 2 until sufficiently reassured she has not heard one of those conversations in over a month, so I think that issue may be passed. We do talk about how I have 2 breasts, so she and the baby will both have a turn to nurse, and she seems to be ok with that idea in our family we don't talk about sharing so much, but we do talk about people having turns (for instance friends visiting may have a turn with a favorite toy, but Maya will then have a turn again too) so she very much gets the "turns" idea and how that works, and is cool with it.
Lastly, from October 08-Feb 09 we were traveling as a family we spent a lot of that time in Morocco, where for cultural reasons we just could not nurse wherever we wanted so limiting has been happening for a while, through a period that (I believe) was difficult for Maya anyway due to her separation from friends and family back in Miami. Maybe I did limit too much too quickly for her. Back in Miami, she gets to nurse pretty much anywhere/ everywhere I can find a seat However, I know I am feeling rather "touched out" lately, and I'm pretty sure she is picking up on that..not sure how to get my head back in a better mind frame from that perspective, though I think knowing that it is just not reasonable to expect her to consider my needs does help I'm the last of my friends nursing, and the only one parenting from an RU perspective, so no one really "gets" why I "give in" to her tears and tantrums I wish we could figure out how to avoid them all together, and I'm thinking I must be doing the triggering here somehow
I will definitely try some of the strategies suggested when feeling particularly ungenerous towards nursing. Thank you again,
Amanda
Maya was a home birth, and we have looked at the pictures of her birth (not graphic ones though) and she has seen photos of me pregnant with her and we talk about the baby in mommy's belly like she used to be in mommy's belly...the other day when her my husband rubbed my stomach she told him not to touch the baby. (she's a bit possessive) Also, we have watched a scientifically (as opposed to cartoon) animation of how a baby grows inside, so that she sees how it happens. She is very involved, to the degree she wishes, in the pregnancy and excited for it.
She goes to midwife visits with me, and our midwife is also a family friend, so she is someone that Maya knows and is comfortable with...she did get to hear the baby on the doppler the other day, but I'm not sure she made the connection...though it was explained she was busy nursing!
Also, Maya has always had a very high need to nurse (and is a great eater as well). The meltdowns for nursing pauses have always been an issue for us, but pre-pregnancy I could generally hold off my own needs a bit easier...I'm fairly hypoglycemic, so I've had the quick snack thing down for years, but sometimes now the hunger just creeps up on me, I have a metabolism that seems to go into overdrive when pregnant, the same thing happened when I was pregnant with Maya. (also of course as I get hungrier, I become less patient and relaxed)
Lastly, I am hesitant to tell her that I need to have a break to eat for the new baby I would rather her be mad at me than the baby. When we were in Israel we did have several people tell me (in front of her of course) that I would immediately have to stop nursing, they were told in the same conversations that that was not happening and Maya could nurse as long as she wanted, but she would still (understandably) freak out and begin nursing more frequently for a day or 2 until sufficiently reassured she has not heard one of those conversations in over a month, so I think that issue may be passed. We do talk about how I have 2 breasts, so she and the baby will both have a turn to nurse, and she seems to be ok with that idea in our family we don't talk about sharing so much, but we do talk about people having turns (for instance friends visiting may have a turn with a favorite toy, but Maya will then have a turn again too) so she very much gets the "turns" idea and how that works, and is cool with it.
Lastly, from October 08-Feb 09 we were traveling as a family we spent a lot of that time in Morocco, where for cultural reasons we just could not nurse wherever we wanted so limiting has been happening for a while, through a period that (I believe) was difficult for Maya anyway due to her separation from friends and family back in Miami. Maybe I did limit too much too quickly for her. Back in Miami, she gets to nurse pretty much anywhere/ everywhere I can find a seat However, I know I am feeling rather "touched out" lately, and I'm pretty sure she is picking up on that..not sure how to get my head back in a better mind frame from that perspective, though I think knowing that it is just not reasonable to expect her to consider my needs does help I'm the last of my friends nursing, and the only one parenting from an RU perspective, so no one really "gets" why I "give in" to her tears and tantrums I wish we could figure out how to avoid them all together, and I'm thinking I must be doing the triggering here somehow
I will definitely try some of the strategies suggested when feeling particularly ungenerous towards nursing. Thank you again,
Amanda
Matt & Jessica
I am sure most extended nursing Moms have been there in one sense or another. First let me say I am an extended nursing mother but I have not nursed while pregnant. So that comes with a whole set of issues I don't know about but have read about a lot.
I think this is one of those phases that will pass at some point. It is up to the two of you to decide if you want to continue the nursing relationship or not. I am sure you can tell your dd is not ready to stop. Our dd went through a phase (probably about that age, not quite sure) where moving her while nursing was a huge annoyance. It took time for her to understand, Mommy NEEDS to go potty, Mommy NEEDS a drink, etc. Right now her needs are all she thinks about (and all she should think about at this point, but that will change). I also started something called Hurry Up Nummies ( she named nursing, nummies). Hurry Up Nummies was just that. If I couldn't have a full nursing session because I hurt, was touched out, or just drained I would say hurry up nummies? and typically she would understand that. Sometimes she really needed to nurse longer and I would weigh that with how I felt. Probably 99% of the time she nursed longer if needed of course, lol. Her needs should out weigh mine but I did consider mine.
Night time is the most important nursing session to your dd. Or at least that is my experience. So I wouldn't mess around with that one. She depends on that comfort. I think continuing to eat lots before and in the morning will help. Can you have snacks by the bed and water? Going potty of course can't be helped and she will understand that soon. It is just a phase. Phases pass and the memories are treasures. I honestly can say I miss those moments. So through all of your distress right now, remember to treasure it also. You may never be pregnant and nursing again. Even if you are, it won't be with these two children:). Enjoy, give yourself a break, and take it one minute at a time.
BTW you are doing an awesome job, so give yourself credit too:)!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think this is one of those phases that will pass at some point. It is up to the two of you to decide if you want to continue the nursing relationship or not. I am sure you can tell your dd is not ready to stop. Our dd went through a phase (probably about that age, not quite sure) where moving her while nursing was a huge annoyance. It took time for her to understand, Mommy NEEDS to go potty, Mommy NEEDS a drink, etc. Right now her needs are all she thinks about (and all she should think about at this point, but that will change). I also started something called Hurry Up Nummies ( she named nursing, nummies). Hurry Up Nummies was just that. If I couldn't have a full nursing session because I hurt, was touched out, or just drained I would say hurry up nummies? and typically she would understand that. Sometimes she really needed to nurse longer and I would weigh that with how I felt. Probably 99% of the time she nursed longer if needed of course, lol. Her needs should out weigh mine but I did consider mine.
Night time is the most important nursing session to your dd. Or at least that is my experience. So I wouldn't mess around with that one. She depends on that comfort. I think continuing to eat lots before and in the morning will help. Can you have snacks by the bed and water? Going potty of course can't be helped and she will understand that soon. It is just a phase. Phases pass and the memories are treasures. I honestly can say I miss those moments. So through all of your distress right now, remember to treasure it also. You may never be pregnant and nursing again. Even if you are, it won't be with these two children:). Enjoy, give yourself a break, and take it one minute at a time.
BTW you are doing an awesome job, so give yourself credit too:)!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
I am mother to Maya, who is 2y5m, and expecting a second in late October.
I'm posting to this group, since we live an RU lifestyle, and I really
respect a lot of the parenting advice I read on the list. I am having a
really hard time nursing Maya right now, though it is still an important
part of our relationship that she is not wiling to let go of, and neither am
I, though not quite to the same degree. I have always figured she would wean
when she was ready, figured I would probably end up tandem nursing, and I
have never minded nursing her....at this point even the very painful latches
that developed in my first trimester have mostly eased up.
***It sounds like you have made it through the hardest part. The first
trimester is the most painful. I only nursed for part of one pregnancy. It
was very painful, and as my ds was over 4, we chose to wean. So I can
empathize with the pain.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
However, I am feeling very nutritionally drained by the long periods of
night and early morning nursing...I sleep just fine, but wake feeling very
exhausted from a nutritional standpoint...and I make sure that we both have
a pre-bed nutritious snack involving complex carbs and protein. Also, if I
get out of bed at night I make sure to have a snack. She also nurses 3-6
times a day (sometimes more), though day time is not as nutritionally rough
for me, it can be more frustrating in terms of needing a short break.
***Are you saying that night time nursing is rough for you? Is that your
biggest issue?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I have tried to explain to Maya that the nursing sometimes hurts, or mommy
needs a short break to make more milk, but she gets into hysterical tearful
sessions that feel bad for both of us. I never deny her, but even suggesting
a short break, or suggesting we set a timer for a 2 minute break brings a
meltdown. She will also freak if after a long period, say 1 hr, of nursing i
need to use the bathroom, even if she is brought along while latched...I
guess I'm struggling with how to get her to understand/ be respectful of
some very vital and elemental needs of mine (bathroom and nutrition)...or to
know whether this is even a reasonable developmental expectation at her age.
***Sometimes new boundaries are hard. I am really careful about how I create
boundaries and **why**. I do a lot (a whole lot) of soul searching before. I
want to be sure that it really is a boundary I need. I want to examine the
issue from all sides and be very certain that there are *no* other options.
In a sense I am closing a door. --She is going from nursing on cue to
negotiating nursing with you-- Boundaries are limits. I want to offer my
children as many possibilities as I can. But I wouldn't want to show my
children that I'm hurting and not doing anything about it.
If it hurts you then it is ok to stop. It is ok for her to feel sad and
miss nursing for a little while. You can love her and provide emotional
support if she is sad, frustrated or angry. I would be sure that you mean
"no" when you say it. Ask yourself if you care giving her mixed messages.
Being a martyr sets both of you up for struggles. When you nurse be with
that decision fully. When you can't nurse find options. Work with her to
problem solve. I think talking about it when she isn't actively nursing may
help. She is still really little and immature, as she should be. What she
wants is what she wants. perhaps have a short list of other things she loves
to offer when you simply can't nurse. Ice cream or a fruit smoothy. A cuddle
or a story. A favorite tv program or a computer game together (pbs kids has
great games for her age). If she really needs sucking you can offer a
pacifier or a bottle. Ask her.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I am a stay at home mom, and try to have lots of fun activities and
distractions for her, as well as offers of food and drink first if she asks
to nurse...sometimes she accepts, sometimes not. Monkey platters are always
around as well.
Not sure what more I can do to get us back to a point where the nursing is
working better for both of us...but all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
***Have you checked into LLL? Or read Mothering Your Nursing Toddler. Those
might be good resources as well.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm posting to this group, since we live an RU lifestyle, and I really
respect a lot of the parenting advice I read on the list. I am having a
really hard time nursing Maya right now, though it is still an important
part of our relationship that she is not wiling to let go of, and neither am
I, though not quite to the same degree. I have always figured she would wean
when she was ready, figured I would probably end up tandem nursing, and I
have never minded nursing her....at this point even the very painful latches
that developed in my first trimester have mostly eased up.
***It sounds like you have made it through the hardest part. The first
trimester is the most painful. I only nursed for part of one pregnancy. It
was very painful, and as my ds was over 4, we chose to wean. So I can
empathize with the pain.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
However, I am feeling very nutritionally drained by the long periods of
night and early morning nursing...I sleep just fine, but wake feeling very
exhausted from a nutritional standpoint...and I make sure that we both have
a pre-bed nutritious snack involving complex carbs and protein. Also, if I
get out of bed at night I make sure to have a snack. She also nurses 3-6
times a day (sometimes more), though day time is not as nutritionally rough
for me, it can be more frustrating in terms of needing a short break.
***Are you saying that night time nursing is rough for you? Is that your
biggest issue?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I have tried to explain to Maya that the nursing sometimes hurts, or mommy
needs a short break to make more milk, but she gets into hysterical tearful
sessions that feel bad for both of us. I never deny her, but even suggesting
a short break, or suggesting we set a timer for a 2 minute break brings a
meltdown. She will also freak if after a long period, say 1 hr, of nursing i
need to use the bathroom, even if she is brought along while latched...I
guess I'm struggling with how to get her to understand/ be respectful of
some very vital and elemental needs of mine (bathroom and nutrition)...or to
know whether this is even a reasonable developmental expectation at her age.
***Sometimes new boundaries are hard. I am really careful about how I create
boundaries and **why**. I do a lot (a whole lot) of soul searching before. I
want to be sure that it really is a boundary I need. I want to examine the
issue from all sides and be very certain that there are *no* other options.
In a sense I am closing a door. --She is going from nursing on cue to
negotiating nursing with you-- Boundaries are limits. I want to offer my
children as many possibilities as I can. But I wouldn't want to show my
children that I'm hurting and not doing anything about it.
If it hurts you then it is ok to stop. It is ok for her to feel sad and
miss nursing for a little while. You can love her and provide emotional
support if she is sad, frustrated or angry. I would be sure that you mean
"no" when you say it. Ask yourself if you care giving her mixed messages.
Being a martyr sets both of you up for struggles. When you nurse be with
that decision fully. When you can't nurse find options. Work with her to
problem solve. I think talking about it when she isn't actively nursing may
help. She is still really little and immature, as she should be. What she
wants is what she wants. perhaps have a short list of other things she loves
to offer when you simply can't nurse. Ice cream or a fruit smoothy. A cuddle
or a story. A favorite tv program or a computer game together (pbs kids has
great games for her age). If she really needs sucking you can offer a
pacifier or a bottle. Ask her.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I am a stay at home mom, and try to have lots of fun activities and
distractions for her, as well as offers of food and drink first if she asks
to nurse...sometimes she accepts, sometimes not. Monkey platters are always
around as well.
Not sure what more I can do to get us back to a point where the nursing is
working better for both of us...but all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
***Have you checked into LLL? Or read Mothering Your Nursing Toddler. Those
might be good resources as well.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Homeschool Cooperative Educating in Centr
La Leche has a book "Mothering Your Nursing Toddler", it's worth the read if you haven't already read it. They also have books on tandem nursing - can't recall the names, and not sure I've actually read them. My kids are now 11, 8.5 and almost 6 and I recall they were coming out with books on tandem nursing after I had embarked on that adventure the first time. The oldest were both still nursing when the 3rd came along. I've yet to see a book for how to handle nursing three.
Nursing during pregnancy has it's own challenges; I have three kids, so have done this 2x. You've already figured out that nutrition is so important during this time. Also, remember the calorie count. My ob reccommended 300 extra calories a day for being pregnant and 400 for nursing. So doing both you need 700 extra calories - healthy calories, not junk food.
Some things I did with my kids to get a short break from nursing:
Have a set of toys that are ONLY used during mommy needs a break time - don't actually tell Maya that's what they are for. Rotate them frequently. If you wrap each one up - use fabric (or old baby blankets) tied with hair ties it buys you more time because she has to 'unwrap' each toy to play with it.
Build a fort - find all the unused sheets and tie them to the living room furniture - at least you can lay on the couch while she's playing in it.
Bath time - most kids this age love baths. Boats, foam shapes, washable paints can make it more fun. Obviously, you have to watch her and can't go do something you really need like nap!, but sitting on the floor of the bathroom was the only way I got to read a grown up book for years.
Wear more elaborate clothing. It sounds silly, but easy access is not always what you want. Especially if you're having a "I may scream or run away from home if anyone touches me" day, find something 'difficult' to nurse in. Play "dress up"; make a big deal of it = put both mommy and Maya in a dress (especially if you don't normally wear them - Maya is smart if only you get in a dress she'll figure it out in a heart beat causing her more stress and making her need to nurse to reassure herself). Something with a billion little buttons up the back that won't pull off easily over your head and doesn't have a low enough neckline to nurse in would be nice :).
Nursing during pregnancy has it's own challenges; I have three kids, so have done this 2x. You've already figured out that nutrition is so important during this time. Also, remember the calorie count. My ob reccommended 300 extra calories a day for being pregnant and 400 for nursing. So doing both you need 700 extra calories - healthy calories, not junk food.
Some things I did with my kids to get a short break from nursing:
Have a set of toys that are ONLY used during mommy needs a break time - don't actually tell Maya that's what they are for. Rotate them frequently. If you wrap each one up - use fabric (or old baby blankets) tied with hair ties it buys you more time because she has to 'unwrap' each toy to play with it.
Build a fort - find all the unused sheets and tie them to the living room furniture - at least you can lay on the couch while she's playing in it.
Bath time - most kids this age love baths. Boats, foam shapes, washable paints can make it more fun. Obviously, you have to watch her and can't go do something you really need like nap!, but sitting on the floor of the bathroom was the only way I got to read a grown up book for years.
Wear more elaborate clothing. It sounds silly, but easy access is not always what you want. Especially if you're having a "I may scream or run away from home if anyone touches me" day, find something 'difficult' to nurse in. Play "dress up"; make a big deal of it = put both mommy and Maya in a dress (especially if you don't normally wear them - Maya is smart if only you get in a dress she'll figure it out in a heart beat causing her more stress and making her need to nurse to reassure herself). Something with a billion little buttons up the back that won't pull off easily over your head and doesn't have a low enough neckline to nurse in would be nice :).
--- In [email protected], "amandabpearl" <amanda@...> wrote:
>
> I am mother to Maya, who is 2y5m, and expecting a second in late October. I'm posting to this group, since we live an RU lifestyle, and I really respect a lot of the parenting advice I read on the list. I am having a really hard time nursing Maya right now, though it is still an important part of our relationship that she is not wiling to let go of, and neither am I, though not quite to the same degree. I have always figured she would wean when she was ready, figured I would probably end up tandem nursing, and I have never minded nursing her....at this point even the very painful latches that developed in my first trimester have mostly eased up.
>
> However, I am feeling very nutritionally drained by the long periods of night and early morning nursing...I sleep just fine, but wake feeling very exhausted from a nutritional standpoint...and I make sure that we both have a pre-bed nutritious snack involving complex carbs and protein. Also, if I get out of bed at night I make sure to have a snack. She also nurses 3-6 times a day (sometimes more), though day time is not as nutritionally rough for me, it can be more frustrating in terms of needing a short break.
>
> I have tried to explain to Maya that the nursing sometimes hurts, or mommy needs a short break to make more milk, but she gets into hysterical tearful sessions that feel bad for both of us. I never deny her, but even suggesting a short break, or suggesting we set a timer for a 2 minute break brings a meltdown. She will also freak if after a long period, say 1 hr, of nursing i need to use the bathroom, even if she is brought along while latched...I guess I'm struggling with how to get her to understand/ be respectful of some very vital and elemental needs of mine (bathroom and nutrition)...or to know whether this is even a reasonable developmental expectation at her age.
>
> I am a stay at home mom, and try to have lots of fun activities and distractions for her, as well as offers of food and drink first if she asks to nurse...sometimes she accepts, sometimes not. Monkey platters are always around as well.
>
> Not sure what more I can do to get us back to a point where the nursing is working better for both of us...but all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
>
duckgirl01
Hey!
LLL Leader here. I'd be happy to talk to you, if you like. Will email privately. In the meantime, I highly recommend you buy a copy of "Adventures in Tandem Nursing" by Hilary Flower. I'm currently re-reading it myself, as I prepare for my second tandem nursing experience (my due date is in 3 weeks, and still nursing my almost-4-year-old. I also nursing my first child all the way through my second pregnancy, and for another 2.5 years, until he was 5).
I'll email.
Trish
LLL Leader here. I'd be happy to talk to you, if you like. Will email privately. In the meantime, I highly recommend you buy a copy of "Adventures in Tandem Nursing" by Hilary Flower. I'm currently re-reading it myself, as I prepare for my second tandem nursing experience (my due date is in 3 weeks, and still nursing my almost-4-year-old. I also nursing my first child all the way through my second pregnancy, and for another 2.5 years, until he was 5).
I'll email.
Trish
--- In [email protected], "amandabpearl" <amanda@...> wrote:
>
> I am mother to Maya, who is 2y5m, and expecting a second in late October. I'm posting to this group, since we live an RU lifestyle, and I really respect a lot of the parenting advice I read on the list. I am having a really hard time nursing Maya right now, though it is still an important part of our relationship that she is not wiling to let go of, and neither am I, though not quite to the same degree. I have always figured she would wean when she was ready, figured I would probably end up tandem nursing, and I have never minded nursing her....at this point even the very painful latches that developed in my first trimester have mostly eased up.
>
> However, I am feeling very nutritionally drained by the long periods of night and early morning nursing...I sleep just fine, but wake feeling very exhausted from a nutritional standpoint...and I make sure that we both have a pre-bed nutritious snack involving complex carbs and protein. Also, if I get out of bed at night I make sure to have a snack. She also nurses 3-6 times a day (sometimes more), though day time is not as nutritionally rough for me, it can be more frustrating in terms of needing a short break.
>
> I have tried to explain to Maya that the nursing sometimes hurts, or mommy needs a short break to make more milk, but she gets into hysterical tearful sessions that feel bad for both of us. I never deny her, but even suggesting a short break, or suggesting we set a timer for a 2 minute break brings a meltdown. She will also freak if after a long period, say 1 hr, of nursing i need to use the bathroom, even if she is brought along while latched...I guess I'm struggling with how to get her to understand/ be respectful of some very vital and elemental needs of mine (bathroom and nutrition)...or to know whether this is even a reasonable developmental expectation at her age.
>
> I am a stay at home mom, and try to have lots of fun activities and distractions for her, as well as offers of food and drink first if she asks to nurse...sometimes she accepts, sometimes not. Monkey platters are always around as well.
>
> Not sure what more I can do to get us back to a point where the nursing is working better for both of us...but all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
>
Tamara Griesel
Have you tried having high calorie drinks available to sip while you nurse? A lot of them are awful, but some of the shakes are nice. I drank some of the GNC protein shakes when I was pregnant with my younger (wasn't nursing, but was very morning sick and couldn't tolerate eggs or meat---and was supposed to have extra protein because of the pregnancy coming after a physically draining miscarriage.)
Tamara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tamara
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kandace M. Wright
> --- In [email protected], "amandabpearl" <amanda@...> wrote:I am tandem nursing my 3 year old and nearly 11 month old. I also
>>
>> I am mother to Maya, who is 2y5m, and expecting a second in late October.
>> I'm posting to this group, since we live an RU lifestyle, and I really
>> respect a lot of the parenting advice I read on the list. ....
follow child led weaning.
>>This may have little to do with the nursing. Are you anemic? The
>> However, I am feeling very nutritionally drained by the long periods of
>> night and early morning nursing...
easiest solution it to eat more. I do remember this feeling. I was
anemic.
>>Can Daddy help? What I did was explain I needed to pee and would be
>> ...I
>> guess I'm struggling with how to get her to understand/ be respectful of
>> some very vital and elemental needs of mine (bathroom and nutrition)...or to
>> know whether this is even a reasonable developmental expectation at her age.
>>
right back. Kept matter of fact. He cry but settle down and stopped
getting upset at all after a few weeks. Once he realized that yes I
was coming back each time and not just ending the sessins.
>> I am a stay at home mom, and try to have lots of fun activities andI'd let her nurse when she asks. Yoou may find she asks less and
>> distractions for her, as well as offers of food and drink first if she asks
>> to nurse...sometimes she accepts, sometimes not. Monkey platters are always
>> around as well.
nurses shorter.
>>It'll get there, :)
>> Not sure what more I can do to get us back to a point where the nursing is
>> working better for both of us...but all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
Kandace
Mom to Jackie - 12, Jacob 10, Jessica 7, James 3 and Jeremiah 10 months
Attachment Parenting International of Merrimack Valley Co-Leader
Artist - http://www.kandacewright.com
Lisa
There's a really yummy Naked Juice that is a Protein smoothie .. might be more palatable for those morning sickness mornings than something that is so "dairy" like most protein shakes!
Lisa B
Lisa B
--- In [email protected], Tamara Griesel <griesellists@...> wrote:
>
> Have you tried having high calorie drinks available to sip while you nurse? A lot of them are awful, but some of the shakes are nice. I drank some of the GNC protein shakes when I was pregnant with my younger (wasn't nursing, but was very morning sick and couldn't tolerate eggs or meat---and was supposed to have extra protein because of the pregnancy coming after a physically draining miscarriage.)
>
> Tamara
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>