Please help re. bullying (sorry - long), Part 3
[email protected]
I know I should not have written such a strong letter like that. I was wrong to write in the heat of anger. Curiously, though, Matthew's mother never responded to my letter -- neither had she contacted the head of school. To make sure she got it, I will edit it so that the tone will be more neutral, print it out and mail it to her. At this point, I don't want to talk to her. I just want her to know what happened so hopefully, she will talk to her son. Do you think this is right?
Because I thought Matthew's mother would talk to the head of school about this, I gave a copy of my letter to the head of school. That afternoon, she called and asked to meet with me as soon as possible. She was very angry about the letter. When we met, we had an intense argument.
She told me the following:
1) I should not have given her a copy of the letter and involve them in something that should've remained between Matthew's mom and me. But since I did, then how dare I attack Matthew and his mother in my letter. She felt I was out of line. She said that she and the teachers were tired of me bringing up Miguel's negative reactions to the bullying. First of all, she said, she should never have agreed to use the word "bullying" in our meetings. She prefers to call it unkindness. These are just kids, and kids can be mean. Miguel has to get used to it because that's how it is in the world.
2) She also said, there are no bullies in this school -- only children with original sin. Matthew is a temperamental child. But you just don't know how much he's improved, she said. Once, he was working with another child. The other child must've done something to annoy him, so Matthew punched him. The other child cried. Maggie, the head of school, had witnessed the whole thing. She went to comfort the other child and left Matthew alone. (I reacted by exclaiming, "You didn't say anything to Matthew??!!) Maggie sharply replied, "Wait! You haven't heard the end of the story." Apparently, 25 minutes later, Matthew came to her, put his arms around her and cried, "I can't believe I did that!"
This is the Montessori way of dealing with conflict, she said. You cannot demand a sincere apology from a child. He shouldn't be reprimanded or told what to do. He has to come to his own realization that his negative behavior hurts others. How dare Miguel demand a sincere apology. You can't force someone to apologize if he doesn't want to.
(That's true. But what if it takes the bully time to come to that realization? Or, worse, what if he never reaches that realization? Miguel and the other kids should just continue to be victims?)
(My question is: How do unschoolers deal with bullying? I know it just doesn't happen in schools because it happens in our local homeschool support group as well, though to a lesser degree because the mothers talk to their children and put an end to it. Since Montessori & Holt's teachings are similar, is the head of school right in addressing bullying this way? By bullying, I mean the everyday meanness, roughness and lack of charity kids sometimes have for each other -- not serious bullying, like being beaten up or stalking another person.
In other words, am I wrong? Am I unconsciously going back to traditional parenting (which is what my parents have done with me, of course), where I expect the teacher or parent to scold the child and teach him the error of his ways? Is Maggie right in respecting the offending child's feelings by not telling him anything? But what about the offended child's feelings? Shouldn't his feelings be respected, too -- even if he is very sensitive and easily gets hurts?)
3) Instead, Maggie said, "Miguel is socially inept. He's now like an outcast because nobody wants to come near him for fear that he'll go and tell the teacher."
(I felt very hurt by this attack on my child, especially since I know for a fact that it is an exaggeration. Yes, I know that my son is very sensitive. But he is not an outcast. He has a friend in the school who likes to eat lunch with him regularly. I also know from the mother of a younger student that her son adores ds as the older brother he would like to have. Miguel enjoys friendly relations with a some other kids as well, and adults generally like him because he is polite & good-natured. Those who probably avoid him are the bullies, and I prefer it that way.
Also, in the situation last week, my son was the victim there. And yet, the head of school kept defending Matthew because she felt I attacked him and his mother in my letter. Obviously, she's taking that against me. If that's the case, then I feel that she should attack me for having written that letter, not my son!
I spoke with some friends of mine about the situation, and one of them said that, with regards to the bullying situation that just happened last week [ when Matthew pulled Miguel's vest and took his spot, etc. ], Miguel didn't sound socially inept at all to him. On the contrary, he was using his words to defend himself and to kind of educate Matthew [instead of hitting or pushing him back], which, he said that, at 8 years old, was more than he could say for some adults he knew.
Maggie also said that, since kids will be kids, and these little acts of unkindness happen between them everyday, then Miguel is socially inept because he is not used to it. She's taking care not to attack our homeschool now because she had done it before. Like Montessori, she thinks the best place for a child to grow in and spend most of his day in is in the community -- in other words, in a Montessori school like hers -- not at home. She thinks that at home, the child is too sheltered, and I, as a homeschooling parent, am overprotective -- which, I admit, is true, when it comes to bullying.)
4) She also thinks that their school is for Miguel, but not for me.
(Well, as I mentioned earlier, I just love the Montessori Method [ which is very respectful of the child -- just like unschooling ], I love the school's beautiful children's environment and the ingenious materials Montessori created. If ever I would not be able to homeschool at all, this would be the school I would send my children to -- which is what we did with our youngest this schoolyear because of my health problems. I told her that. It's just the frequent bullying that I don't like, and being in the thick of it all, with emotions still running raw, I cannot seem to understand their way of addressing it. That's why I decided to ask you ladies in light of your unschooling experience -- what is the best way to deal with bullying?)
5) In the end, she gave me 2 choices:
Either we pull Miguel out of the school (and they'll refund us the last couple of months' tuition) -- because they cannot guarantee that no bullying will occur till the end of the schoolyear, and I'll only be unhappy; or he stays till the end of the schoolyear, but they don't want to hear any complaints of bullying from me. Miguel will just have to roll with the punches and learn to be less sensitive.
Please, I would really appreciate it if anyone could share their thoughts with me about this? I feel that she is taking away my right to advocate for my child. Given the conditions she laid down, would it be best to just pull our child out of the school, or should he learn to deal with the realities of being within a school community, and I will just have to endure his suffering?
We have already told the head of school that we will not be re-enrolling ds in the school next schoolyear. For the most part, surgery has helped me deal with my health issues, and with the natural supplements I am taking, I think I will be able to homeschool / unschool all three of my kids again next schoolyear.
My husband prefers to have ds stay in school just till the end of the schoolyear, since there are only a little over 2 months left till the schoolyear's end, and he hopes that ds will continue to learn to be less sensitive. On the other hand, he knows that I am stressed out with the situation and the fact that I will not be able to advocate for ds anymore when another bullying situation happens. He thinks that it is not worth the stress I am going through, so maybe it would be best to just pull him out of the school. In the end, he is leaving it up to me.
I know I have my faults and weaknesses, and I am to blame for writing that letter to Matthew's mom in anger. And yes, I am overprotective of my child when it comes to bullying, and the teachers / head of school don't want to have to deal with it anymore. But this whole situation has blown up more than I had expected, so that I cannot think as clearly anymore. Please help me.
My husband & I are meeting with the head of school this Friday to tell her our decision.
I thank you with all my heart for taking the time to read my posts, if you have come this far. I am sorry to have to bother the group about these issues. But I would like to hear the unschooling poiint of view with regards to this situation, and I would be very grateful for any advice you can offer.
Sincerely,
Shelley Daez
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Because I thought Matthew's mother would talk to the head of school about this, I gave a copy of my letter to the head of school. That afternoon, she called and asked to meet with me as soon as possible. She was very angry about the letter. When we met, we had an intense argument.
She told me the following:
1) I should not have given her a copy of the letter and involve them in something that should've remained between Matthew's mom and me. But since I did, then how dare I attack Matthew and his mother in my letter. She felt I was out of line. She said that she and the teachers were tired of me bringing up Miguel's negative reactions to the bullying. First of all, she said, she should never have agreed to use the word "bullying" in our meetings. She prefers to call it unkindness. These are just kids, and kids can be mean. Miguel has to get used to it because that's how it is in the world.
2) She also said, there are no bullies in this school -- only children with original sin. Matthew is a temperamental child. But you just don't know how much he's improved, she said. Once, he was working with another child. The other child must've done something to annoy him, so Matthew punched him. The other child cried. Maggie, the head of school, had witnessed the whole thing. She went to comfort the other child and left Matthew alone. (I reacted by exclaiming, "You didn't say anything to Matthew??!!) Maggie sharply replied, "Wait! You haven't heard the end of the story." Apparently, 25 minutes later, Matthew came to her, put his arms around her and cried, "I can't believe I did that!"
This is the Montessori way of dealing with conflict, she said. You cannot demand a sincere apology from a child. He shouldn't be reprimanded or told what to do. He has to come to his own realization that his negative behavior hurts others. How dare Miguel demand a sincere apology. You can't force someone to apologize if he doesn't want to.
(That's true. But what if it takes the bully time to come to that realization? Or, worse, what if he never reaches that realization? Miguel and the other kids should just continue to be victims?)
(My question is: How do unschoolers deal with bullying? I know it just doesn't happen in schools because it happens in our local homeschool support group as well, though to a lesser degree because the mothers talk to their children and put an end to it. Since Montessori & Holt's teachings are similar, is the head of school right in addressing bullying this way? By bullying, I mean the everyday meanness, roughness and lack of charity kids sometimes have for each other -- not serious bullying, like being beaten up or stalking another person.
In other words, am I wrong? Am I unconsciously going back to traditional parenting (which is what my parents have done with me, of course), where I expect the teacher or parent to scold the child and teach him the error of his ways? Is Maggie right in respecting the offending child's feelings by not telling him anything? But what about the offended child's feelings? Shouldn't his feelings be respected, too -- even if he is very sensitive and easily gets hurts?)
3) Instead, Maggie said, "Miguel is socially inept. He's now like an outcast because nobody wants to come near him for fear that he'll go and tell the teacher."
(I felt very hurt by this attack on my child, especially since I know for a fact that it is an exaggeration. Yes, I know that my son is very sensitive. But he is not an outcast. He has a friend in the school who likes to eat lunch with him regularly. I also know from the mother of a younger student that her son adores ds as the older brother he would like to have. Miguel enjoys friendly relations with a some other kids as well, and adults generally like him because he is polite & good-natured. Those who probably avoid him are the bullies, and I prefer it that way.
Also, in the situation last week, my son was the victim there. And yet, the head of school kept defending Matthew because she felt I attacked him and his mother in my letter. Obviously, she's taking that against me. If that's the case, then I feel that she should attack me for having written that letter, not my son!
I spoke with some friends of mine about the situation, and one of them said that, with regards to the bullying situation that just happened last week [ when Matthew pulled Miguel's vest and took his spot, etc. ], Miguel didn't sound socially inept at all to him. On the contrary, he was using his words to defend himself and to kind of educate Matthew [instead of hitting or pushing him back], which, he said that, at 8 years old, was more than he could say for some adults he knew.
Maggie also said that, since kids will be kids, and these little acts of unkindness happen between them everyday, then Miguel is socially inept because he is not used to it. She's taking care not to attack our homeschool now because she had done it before. Like Montessori, she thinks the best place for a child to grow in and spend most of his day in is in the community -- in other words, in a Montessori school like hers -- not at home. She thinks that at home, the child is too sheltered, and I, as a homeschooling parent, am overprotective -- which, I admit, is true, when it comes to bullying.)
4) She also thinks that their school is for Miguel, but not for me.
(Well, as I mentioned earlier, I just love the Montessori Method [ which is very respectful of the child -- just like unschooling ], I love the school's beautiful children's environment and the ingenious materials Montessori created. If ever I would not be able to homeschool at all, this would be the school I would send my children to -- which is what we did with our youngest this schoolyear because of my health problems. I told her that. It's just the frequent bullying that I don't like, and being in the thick of it all, with emotions still running raw, I cannot seem to understand their way of addressing it. That's why I decided to ask you ladies in light of your unschooling experience -- what is the best way to deal with bullying?)
5) In the end, she gave me 2 choices:
Either we pull Miguel out of the school (and they'll refund us the last couple of months' tuition) -- because they cannot guarantee that no bullying will occur till the end of the schoolyear, and I'll only be unhappy; or he stays till the end of the schoolyear, but they don't want to hear any complaints of bullying from me. Miguel will just have to roll with the punches and learn to be less sensitive.
Please, I would really appreciate it if anyone could share their thoughts with me about this? I feel that she is taking away my right to advocate for my child. Given the conditions she laid down, would it be best to just pull our child out of the school, or should he learn to deal with the realities of being within a school community, and I will just have to endure his suffering?
We have already told the head of school that we will not be re-enrolling ds in the school next schoolyear. For the most part, surgery has helped me deal with my health issues, and with the natural supplements I am taking, I think I will be able to homeschool / unschool all three of my kids again next schoolyear.
My husband prefers to have ds stay in school just till the end of the schoolyear, since there are only a little over 2 months left till the schoolyear's end, and he hopes that ds will continue to learn to be less sensitive. On the other hand, he knows that I am stressed out with the situation and the fact that I will not be able to advocate for ds anymore when another bullying situation happens. He thinks that it is not worth the stress I am going through, so maybe it would be best to just pull him out of the school. In the end, he is leaving it up to me.
I know I have my faults and weaknesses, and I am to blame for writing that letter to Matthew's mom in anger. And yes, I am overprotective of my child when it comes to bullying, and the teachers / head of school don't want to have to deal with it anymore. But this whole situation has blown up more than I had expected, so that I cannot think as clearly anymore. Please help me.
My husband & I are meeting with the head of school this Friday to tell her our decision.
I thank you with all my heart for taking the time to read my posts, if you have come this far. I am sorry to have to bother the group about these issues. But I would like to hear the unschooling poiint of view with regards to this situation, and I would be very grateful for any advice you can offer.
Sincerely,
Shelley Daez
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy Curry
Shelly,
I would pull him, regardless of the contract. Why pay for him to be unhappy? If you need to look at it in terms of cost then continuing to pay the tuition then consider it paying for him to be happy. Money aside the important thing is that your son feel happy, loved, and respected. He is not getting that at school. It also breaks his trust in you as his parent to agree to keep sending him some place he isn't happy. It means to him that his feelings do not matter as much as the money that is being spent on him being in what sounds like a horrible place.
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
http://myspace.com/mamabeart00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would pull him, regardless of the contract. Why pay for him to be unhappy? If you need to look at it in terms of cost then continuing to pay the tuition then consider it paying for him to be happy. Money aside the important thing is that your son feel happy, loved, and respected. He is not getting that at school. It also breaks his trust in you as his parent to agree to keep sending him some place he isn't happy. It means to him that his feelings do not matter as much as the money that is being spent on him being in what sounds like a horrible place.
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
http://myspace.com/mamabeart00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather
The short answer is, of course, take your son out of school!
This is an unschooling list.
We aren't going to suggest you leave him in school to get bullied.
You wrote:
"After ds's 1st few weeks in school, however, I realized that we had made a
mistake."
and
"Unfortunately, I could not pull him out of the school, because the school
requires that we sign a contract that says we have to stay for the whole
schoolyear. If for some reason, we cannot, then we have to continue paying
the monthly tuition till schoolyear's end."
So now, you got this as one of your choices:
"pull Miguel out of the school (and they'll refund us the last couple of
months' tuition)"
Why wouldn't you take him out today?
heather
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is an unschooling list.
We aren't going to suggest you leave him in school to get bullied.
You wrote:
"After ds's 1st few weeks in school, however, I realized that we had made a
mistake."
and
"Unfortunately, I could not pull him out of the school, because the school
requires that we sign a contract that says we have to stay for the whole
schoolyear. If for some reason, we cannot, then we have to continue paying
the monthly tuition till schoolyear's end."
So now, you got this as one of your choices:
"pull Miguel out of the school (and they'll refund us the last couple of
months' tuition)"
Why wouldn't you take him out today?
heather
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>He won't learn to be less sensitive by being bullied.
> My husband prefers to have ds stay in school just till the end of
> the schoolyear, since there are only a little over 2 months left
> till the schoolyear's end, and he hopes that ds will continue to
> learn to be less sensitive.
> On the other hand, he knows that I am stressed out with theSo what will you do?
> situation and the fact that I will not be able to advocate for ds
> anymore when another bullying situation happens. He thinks that it
> is not worth the stress I am going through, so maybe it would be
> best to just pull him out of the school. In the end, he is leaving
> it up to me.
I can't see any reason to leave him in school. In spite of health
issues you might have, would he not be happier at home?
Time to look at your son, not bend to pressure from school officials,
other parents or anyone else. Your son needs to trust you to help him
be happy.
>Remove your son from the school now. End of story. It won't help *him*
> I thank you with all my heart for taking the time to read my posts,
> if you have come this far. I am sorry to have to bother the group
> about these issues. But I would like to hear the unschooling poiint
> of view with regards to this situation, and I would be very grateful
> for any advice you can offer.
>
to continue to be there.
Robin B.
Ren Allen
~~I would like to hear the unschooling poiint of view with regards to this situation~~
Um....take your kid out of school. Forever. What other point of view would you expect to hear at an unschooling list? I'm not sure what you want here.
Without any of the problems you outlined, I'd say take your kid out of school anyway. This list exists to help people see how school is unnecessary and harmful even when things seem to be going smoothly.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Um....take your kid out of school. Forever. What other point of view would you expect to hear at an unschooling list? I'm not sure what you want here.
Without any of the problems you outlined, I'd say take your kid out of school anyway. This list exists to help people see how school is unnecessary and harmful even when things seem to be going smoothly.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
[email protected]
I just read the third part, so I am just responding to the School's thing.
I have been bullied in school due to being "sensitive" and a "crybaby." I am
STILL sensitive. And a crier.
Please take him away from this. He will not learn to be less sensitive by
being bullied. It will just crush him and break his heart. Take the money and
run and let his heart stay safe. This is NOT your son's fault.
Kathryn
Come to the Northeast Unschooling Conference August 27-30, 2009 in
Wakefield, Massachusetts _www.northeastunschoolingconference.com_
(http://www.northeastunschoolingconference.com/)
**************Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a
recession.
(http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have been bullied in school due to being "sensitive" and a "crybaby." I am
STILL sensitive. And a crier.
Please take him away from this. He will not learn to be less sensitive by
being bullied. It will just crush him and break his heart. Take the money and
run and let his heart stay safe. This is NOT your son's fault.
Kathryn
Come to the Northeast Unschooling Conference August 27-30, 2009 in
Wakefield, Massachusetts _www.northeastunschoolingconference.com_
(http://www.northeastunschoolingconference.com/)
**************Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a
recession.
(http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brenna Shugarts
I agree don't let them break his spirit. good luck!
reputation is what men & women think of us. character is what God & the angels know of us.
reputation is what men & women think of us. character is what God & the angels know of us.
--- On Tue, 3/31/09, KathrynJB@... <KathrynJB@...> wrote:
From: KathrynJB@... <KathrynJB@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re:Please help re. bullying (sorry - long), Part 3
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 3:21 PM
I just read the third part, so I am just responding to the School's thing.
I have been bullied in school due to being "sensitive" and a "crybaby." I am
STILL sensitive. And a crier.
Please take him away from this. He will not learn to be less sensitive by
being bullied. It will just crush him and break his heart. Take the money and
run and let his heart stay safe. This is NOT your son's fault.
Kathryn
Come to the Northeast Unschooling Conference August 27-30, 2009 in
Wakefield, Massachusetts _www.northeastunsch oolingconference .com_
(http://www.northeas tunschoolingconf erence.com/)
************ **Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a
recession.
(http://jobs. aol.com/gallery/ growing-job- industries? ncid=emlcntuscar e00000003)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]