Speech Therapy Frustration
kelly_sturman
Hi! My name is Kelly. I'm new to this list.
I have five kids, four unschooling, (really
more still deschooling at this point), and
one in school by his choice.
I have a question about helping one of my sons
deal with some frustration he is having.
He was born with a cleft lip and palate.
He lived in an orphanage until just
this past July, when he joined our family.
He never had any speech therapy before
joining our family. He is eight, will be
nine in a few days.
Since coming home to us, we have had
him going to speech therapy three or
four days a week. Right now, the only
sounds he can make are L, M, N, and
vowel sounds, plus glottal stops.
(If you don't know what a glottal stop is,
say "uh-oh!" Feel how you stop the air
in your throat between the "uh" and the "oh"?
That's a glottal stop.)
Well, the issue is, our son does not like
speech therapy. He gets very frustrated,
and he doesn't want to go and work at something
so frustrating. I can understand that.
If somebody told me that I MUST learn to do all the
things with my toes that I am currently able to do with
my fingers, I would be really frustrated. I KNOW
there are people out there who are able to do it.
I suppose I could learn how to coordinate all those
little muscles, too. But it would be really frustrating.
The difference is, if I don't learn to use my feet like
hands, nothing in my life changes (as far as I know!)
If my son doesn't go to speech therapy, he avoids
the frustration of doing exercises that are hard, but
he INCREASES the frustration of most people not being
able to understand a word he says.
His speech language pathologist keeps asking me
what motivates my son. She is looking for an
incentive program to keep him on track.
I have told her, time and again, that our family
does not believe in forcing children to do specific
tasks, and that we really do not dig token economies,
but the SLP keeps asking.
I know my job is not to please her, but to advocate
for and support my son. But it is complicated, because
as much as he dislikes speech therapy, he equally dislikes
not being able to make himself understood. (His sibs
and I understand him, but most people he interacts with
simply have NO IDEA what he is saying, and it really
does frustrate him.
One choice I have is to drop the speech therapy, and let
him tell me if and when he is ready to give it another try.
Let him decide which frustrations he is going to face.
That option opens me up to investigation: where I live,
the law requires homeschooling families to provide
"special educational services" (speech therapy would count)
to children who need such services. I could be accused
of educational neglect for not forcing speech therapy on him.
But setting aside fear of the law, I do feel confident that a time
will come when his desire to be understood by others will
outweigh his reluctance to face the hard work the therapy
entails. Perhaps in a few more years, when hormones hit,
and he becomes interested in romance?
What I am currently doing is let him know that I understand
he is frustrated, but I think he should continue on. I remind him
that *he* really wants his friends to understand what
he is saying and that the work he is doing in speech therapy
is what is going to allow him to learn how to speak clearly.
I accept that in any 30 minute session, my son
may goof around for 25 minutes and do "only"
five minutes of "productive" work. I accept the
fact that this is frustrating for the SLP. But
the SLP's frustration is not my concern. My son's
frustration is.
But, to reiterate, he is going to be frustrated by his
speech impediment (I wish there were a better word
or phrase than that) whether he works on overcoming
it or whether he chooses not to work on overcoming it.
He tells me he doesn't want to go. Do I honor that?
If I do, the natural consequence is that people will
continue to not understand him, and he will continue
to be frustrated by that, and shut out of friendships
because of it. I see him trying to strike up conversations
with the other boys on his gymnastics team and in his
Tae Kwon Do class. I see him fighting back tears when
they simply turn away from him b/c they don't know
what he is saying.
Seeing those interactions leads me to believe that
continuing to encourage him to go to speech therapy
is the right thing to do. But where does encouraging
end and forcing begin?
I do not like failing to honor his right to say,
"I don't want to do this."
OTOH, I have already done that to him.
He needed ear tubes to drain fluid from
his middle ears and he needed his soft
palate lengthened, and although he told me,
"I already had two surgeries in China; I don't
want to have more surgery!" I went ahead and
let the surgeons put those tubes in and lengthen
that palate, b/c I understood there were medical
issues that my son could not understand.
Still, it didn't feel good, forcing surgery on him.
Anyway, to sum up: if you were in our shoes,
what would you do?
Your advice, suggestions, wisdom is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Kelly Sturman
http://kelly-livingjoyfully.blogspot.com
I have five kids, four unschooling, (really
more still deschooling at this point), and
one in school by his choice.
I have a question about helping one of my sons
deal with some frustration he is having.
He was born with a cleft lip and palate.
He lived in an orphanage until just
this past July, when he joined our family.
He never had any speech therapy before
joining our family. He is eight, will be
nine in a few days.
Since coming home to us, we have had
him going to speech therapy three or
four days a week. Right now, the only
sounds he can make are L, M, N, and
vowel sounds, plus glottal stops.
(If you don't know what a glottal stop is,
say "uh-oh!" Feel how you stop the air
in your throat between the "uh" and the "oh"?
That's a glottal stop.)
Well, the issue is, our son does not like
speech therapy. He gets very frustrated,
and he doesn't want to go and work at something
so frustrating. I can understand that.
If somebody told me that I MUST learn to do all the
things with my toes that I am currently able to do with
my fingers, I would be really frustrated. I KNOW
there are people out there who are able to do it.
I suppose I could learn how to coordinate all those
little muscles, too. But it would be really frustrating.
The difference is, if I don't learn to use my feet like
hands, nothing in my life changes (as far as I know!)
If my son doesn't go to speech therapy, he avoids
the frustration of doing exercises that are hard, but
he INCREASES the frustration of most people not being
able to understand a word he says.
His speech language pathologist keeps asking me
what motivates my son. She is looking for an
incentive program to keep him on track.
I have told her, time and again, that our family
does not believe in forcing children to do specific
tasks, and that we really do not dig token economies,
but the SLP keeps asking.
I know my job is not to please her, but to advocate
for and support my son. But it is complicated, because
as much as he dislikes speech therapy, he equally dislikes
not being able to make himself understood. (His sibs
and I understand him, but most people he interacts with
simply have NO IDEA what he is saying, and it really
does frustrate him.
One choice I have is to drop the speech therapy, and let
him tell me if and when he is ready to give it another try.
Let him decide which frustrations he is going to face.
That option opens me up to investigation: where I live,
the law requires homeschooling families to provide
"special educational services" (speech therapy would count)
to children who need such services. I could be accused
of educational neglect for not forcing speech therapy on him.
But setting aside fear of the law, I do feel confident that a time
will come when his desire to be understood by others will
outweigh his reluctance to face the hard work the therapy
entails. Perhaps in a few more years, when hormones hit,
and he becomes interested in romance?
What I am currently doing is let him know that I understand
he is frustrated, but I think he should continue on. I remind him
that *he* really wants his friends to understand what
he is saying and that the work he is doing in speech therapy
is what is going to allow him to learn how to speak clearly.
I accept that in any 30 minute session, my son
may goof around for 25 minutes and do "only"
five minutes of "productive" work. I accept the
fact that this is frustrating for the SLP. But
the SLP's frustration is not my concern. My son's
frustration is.
But, to reiterate, he is going to be frustrated by his
speech impediment (I wish there were a better word
or phrase than that) whether he works on overcoming
it or whether he chooses not to work on overcoming it.
He tells me he doesn't want to go. Do I honor that?
If I do, the natural consequence is that people will
continue to not understand him, and he will continue
to be frustrated by that, and shut out of friendships
because of it. I see him trying to strike up conversations
with the other boys on his gymnastics team and in his
Tae Kwon Do class. I see him fighting back tears when
they simply turn away from him b/c they don't know
what he is saying.
Seeing those interactions leads me to believe that
continuing to encourage him to go to speech therapy
is the right thing to do. But where does encouraging
end and forcing begin?
I do not like failing to honor his right to say,
"I don't want to do this."
OTOH, I have already done that to him.
He needed ear tubes to drain fluid from
his middle ears and he needed his soft
palate lengthened, and although he told me,
"I already had two surgeries in China; I don't
want to have more surgery!" I went ahead and
let the surgeons put those tubes in and lengthen
that palate, b/c I understood there were medical
issues that my son could not understand.
Still, it didn't feel good, forcing surgery on him.
Anyway, to sum up: if you were in our shoes,
what would you do?
Your advice, suggestions, wisdom is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Kelly Sturman
http://kelly-livingjoyfully.blogspot.com
tuemian
Hi Kelly,
I'm new to this group too and just stumbled across another article on another group, that might help you.
It was about tagteach and the link I got was
http://www.tagteach.com/
reading along I found it a good way to learn/teach things without the often underlying "that was better,but..." which people hoped to help me with but often put me of.
Basicly one very specific outcome is rewarded when it happens and ignored when not. Sometimes you can keep track of the hits through beads, blocks, stickers or the like that are traded in for a chosen reward later.
Well, I know, you don't like incentives but maybe for him a very visible association like "with every block I collect, my friends will understand me better" could help him keep going - just a thought.
For an incentive, what about a picture representing a sound or word he said correctly, which he can color in and put on the fridge or somewhere in his room to look at and be happy about his achievments?
I'd probabely start with the words or sounds he's already pretty good at, to help him feel positive about what he can do already (instead of focussing on what he can't do). If he can share that with the people he loves most - even better.
Good Luck and all the best to you
Katrin
I'm new to this group too and just stumbled across another article on another group, that might help you.
It was about tagteach and the link I got was
http://www.tagteach.com/
reading along I found it a good way to learn/teach things without the often underlying "that was better,but..." which people hoped to help me with but often put me of.
Basicly one very specific outcome is rewarded when it happens and ignored when not. Sometimes you can keep track of the hits through beads, blocks, stickers or the like that are traded in for a chosen reward later.
Well, I know, you don't like incentives but maybe for him a very visible association like "with every block I collect, my friends will understand me better" could help him keep going - just a thought.
For an incentive, what about a picture representing a sound or word he said correctly, which he can color in and put on the fridge or somewhere in his room to look at and be happy about his achievments?
I'd probabely start with the words or sounds he's already pretty good at, to help him feel positive about what he can do already (instead of focussing on what he can't do). If he can share that with the people he loves most - even better.
Good Luck and all the best to you
Katrin
[email protected]
I have a question about helping one of my sons
deal with some frustration he is having.
He was born with a cleft lip and palate.
He lived in an orphanage until just
this past July, when he joined our family.
He never had any speech therapy before
joining our family. He is eight, will be
nine in a few days.
_________________
I'm a speech pathologist and try to chime in with some unschooling perspective occasionally about speech therapy.? I do understand both sides of your situation.? Since your son has the physical issues that come with cleft palate, speech therapy should be the best avenue to help him get to the point where his speech is more understandable.
My first suggestions would be to help him to develop ownership of his speech.? What can be done so that he is the one making the decisions about his communication abilities??? Things to consider...
Does he like the speech therapist?? If not, consider getting another one who will work with him.? Maybe 30 minutes is too long for him and 15 minutes to demonstrate how to work on one thing and then ideas for practicing at home might help.? Maybe twice a week would be enough.
Would the therapist be willing to work with you during that 30 minutes and then you help him (maybe in a game format) with some of the sounds he is working on?? Would she give him some options for fun therapy activities that he would enjoy?
Maybe take a break from speech therapy and see if the speech pathologist would give your son some things to work on at home?? The whole idea here is to have your son be the one that chooses how he wants to pursue this.? In this way, it becomes a partnership with the three of you rather than someone making him do something that is just really difficult and often frustrating.
If you'd like to write to me off list, I'd be happy to give you some resources where you could also buy some games that he might enjoy as he develops more sounds as well as brainstorm with you about more ideas.
Gail
http://hummingbirdhaven.blogspot.com
-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
deal with some frustration he is having.
He was born with a cleft lip and palate.
He lived in an orphanage until just
this past July, when he joined our family.
He never had any speech therapy before
joining our family. He is eight, will be
nine in a few days.
_________________
I'm a speech pathologist and try to chime in with some unschooling perspective occasionally about speech therapy.? I do understand both sides of your situation.? Since your son has the physical issues that come with cleft palate, speech therapy should be the best avenue to help him get to the point where his speech is more understandable.
My first suggestions would be to help him to develop ownership of his speech.? What can be done so that he is the one making the decisions about his communication abilities??? Things to consider...
Does he like the speech therapist?? If not, consider getting another one who will work with him.? Maybe 30 minutes is too long for him and 15 minutes to demonstrate how to work on one thing and then ideas for practicing at home might help.? Maybe twice a week would be enough.
Would the therapist be willing to work with you during that 30 minutes and then you help him (maybe in a game format) with some of the sounds he is working on?? Would she give him some options for fun therapy activities that he would enjoy?
Maybe take a break from speech therapy and see if the speech pathologist would give your son some things to work on at home?? The whole idea here is to have your son be the one that chooses how he wants to pursue this.? In this way, it becomes a partnership with the three of you rather than someone making him do something that is just really difficult and often frustrating.
If you'd like to write to me off list, I'd be happy to give you some resources where you could also buy some games that he might enjoy as he develops more sounds as well as brainstorm with you about more ideas.
Gail
http://hummingbirdhaven.blogspot.com
-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela Wolff
Hi Kelly,
I'm new to the group and just preparing to embark on an unschooling journey with my kids.
I feel for you and your frustration and know what it's like to try and wrestle (not physically, but you know) a kid into doing something they don't want to do. I was "that kid." My husband was that kid. And now, not surprisingly, we have one of our own. Which is what is leading us to consider unschooling for next year.
Anyway, we are having our struggles getting my son through this last bit of the school year, and a child psychologist friend pointed me in the direction of a website that is helping. And especially since you say your son has his own frustration with his speech, I could imagine this approach will work very nicely.
http://www.thinkkids.org/
I think it will jibe with your resistance to reward and punishment. The basic premise is that you work with your child to really understand what his resistance is to going to speech therapy and you explain why you are concerned about his resistance/what will happen if he stops going, and then ask him to help you come up with a solution.
I'm copying in a link to their blog about how this conversation might work. The scenario they are using is a kid with health problems who doesn't want to take a lunch from home when he goes out with friends. It was the closest thing I found on the site that seemed to sort of mirror what you are going through.
Go to http://www.thinkkids.org/blog/?id=1 and look for "No Compromise?" 7/30/2008
I can't speak to the legal ramifications of letting him stop, but I would think/hope that if you took a break with the intention of starting again next year or whenever, that you would be "safe." Is there a homeschooling advocate in your area you can consult? You may want to know how much leeway you have before you agree on a solution with your son. If he wants to just quit, but that will land you in trouble and him in school, that is something you need to know. But if he could take a break for the remainder of the school year with no legal ramifications, you might want to know that, too.
Best of luck,
Angela Wolff
I'm new to the group and just preparing to embark on an unschooling journey with my kids.
I feel for you and your frustration and know what it's like to try and wrestle (not physically, but you know) a kid into doing something they don't want to do. I was "that kid." My husband was that kid. And now, not surprisingly, we have one of our own. Which is what is leading us to consider unschooling for next year.
Anyway, we are having our struggles getting my son through this last bit of the school year, and a child psychologist friend pointed me in the direction of a website that is helping. And especially since you say your son has his own frustration with his speech, I could imagine this approach will work very nicely.
http://www.thinkkids.org/
I think it will jibe with your resistance to reward and punishment. The basic premise is that you work with your child to really understand what his resistance is to going to speech therapy and you explain why you are concerned about his resistance/what will happen if he stops going, and then ask him to help you come up with a solution.
I'm copying in a link to their blog about how this conversation might work. The scenario they are using is a kid with health problems who doesn't want to take a lunch from home when he goes out with friends. It was the closest thing I found on the site that seemed to sort of mirror what you are going through.
Go to http://www.thinkkids.org/blog/?id=1 and look for "No Compromise?" 7/30/2008
I can't speak to the legal ramifications of letting him stop, but I would think/hope that if you took a break with the intention of starting again next year or whenever, that you would be "safe." Is there a homeschooling advocate in your area you can consult? You may want to know how much leeway you have before you agree on a solution with your son. If he wants to just quit, but that will land you in trouble and him in school, that is something you need to know. But if he could take a break for the remainder of the school year with no legal ramifications, you might want to know that, too.
Best of luck,
Angela Wolff
[email protected]
I'm a speech pathologist and try to chime in with some unschooling perspective occasionally about speech therapy.? I do understand both sides of your situation.? Since your son has the physical issues that come with cleft palate, speech therapy should be the best avenue to help him get to the point where his speech is more understandable.
___
Would someone please clue me as to why I have all these question marks show up when I send e-mails?? Thanks.?
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
___
Would someone please clue me as to why I have all these question marks show up when I send e-mails?? Thanks.?
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carenkh
It's a double-space thing. We were taught to double-space when typing on a typewriter keyboard - I was, anyway! - but you don't need to do that online. Why it doesn't just put two spaces instead of a question mark is beyond me.
Caren
Caren
--- In [email protected], gailbrocop@... wrote:
>
> Would someone please clue me as to why I have all these question marks show up when I send e-mails?? Thanks.?
>
> Gail
[email protected]
Thank you!!!
Gail
-----Original Message-----
From: carenkh <carenkh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:57 am
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Speech Therapy Frustration
It's a double-space thing. We were taught to double-space when typing on a typewriter keyboard - I was, anyway! - but you don't need to do that online. Why it doesn't just put two spaces instead of a question mark is beyond me.
Caren
Gail
-----Original Message-----
From: carenkh <carenkh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:57 am
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Speech Therapy Frustration
It's a double-space thing. We were taught to double-space when typing on a typewriter keyboard - I was, anyway! - but you don't need to do that online. Why it doesn't just put two spaces instead of a question mark is beyond me.
Caren
--- In [email protected], gailbrocop@... wrote:
>
> Would someone please clue me as to why I have all these question marks show up when I send e-mails?? Thanks.?
>
> Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "kelly_sturman" <kelly_sturman@...> wrote:
Its also something you can learn with him - which breaks down the onus of him fighting to learn something the people around him do effortlessly. That might help him develop some confidence, too.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>> But, to reiterate, he is going to be frustrated by hisDo y'all sign at all? Its something to think about. It would give him another tool for communication. If you can get involved in a local deaf community, too, it would give him access to folks who have a better understanding of verbal communication difficulties in the world at large and allow him to gain a wider variety of strategies for overcoming them.
> speech impediment (I wish there were a better word
> or phrase than that) whether he works on overcoming
> it or whether he chooses not to work on overcoming it.
Its also something you can learn with him - which breaks down the onus of him fighting to learn something the people around him do effortlessly. That might help him develop some confidence, too.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Karen Swanay
Wind, my dear! I read this post without looking at the poster. And
I thought, "Wow...another China mom!" Then I thought..."this sounds
familiar". And then I thought "Morgan needs speech therapy too but I
refuse to put her on a NILF program to get her to speak"...then I
looked at who posted....LMAO!
And the identity stack keeps growing!
Karen
"The fights are so bitter because the stakes are so low." -Sayre
I thought, "Wow...another China mom!" Then I thought..."this sounds
familiar". And then I thought "Morgan needs speech therapy too but I
refuse to put her on a NILF program to get her to speak"...then I
looked at who posted....LMAO!
And the identity stack keeps growing!
Karen
"The fights are so bitter because the stakes are so low." -Sayre
Betj
LOL. I was just discussing that with a 19 year old college student. Sadly she asked her prof what the correct spacing is now and got "what kind of question is that?" as a response! Way to ecourage learning!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "carenkh" <carenkh@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:57:52
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Speech Therapy Frustration
It's a double-space thing. We were taught to double-space when typing on a typewriter keyboard - I was, anyway! - but you don't need to do that online. Why it doesn't just put two spaces instead of a question mark is beyond me.
Caren
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "carenkh" <carenkh@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:57:52
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Speech Therapy Frustration
It's a double-space thing. We were taught to double-space when typing on a typewriter keyboard - I was, anyway! - but you don't need to do that online. Why it doesn't just put two spaces instead of a question mark is beyond me.
Caren
--- In [email protected], gailbrocop@... wrote:
>
> Would someone please clue me as to why I have all these question marks show up when I send e-mails?? Thanks.?
>
> Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
Although I don't expect a lot of you to understand this, please
remember this child is an older (meaning not a baby) adoptee from a
foreign country where he lived in an orphanage. The pychological
changes this makes to a child are profound. My own daugther spent 3
yrs tied on her back in a crib. I had to "teach" her how to cry, that
her needs would be met, that she even HAD needs...forget about wants.
Now home some 15 months, she knows what she wants when we deal with
basic ideas like snack foods, and toys. But she has NO opinion on
clothes, dinner foods, whether or not she eats breakfast etc....
So asking Kelly to ask her son to be a partner in this journey isn't
necessarily going to work. Additionally, children from orphanages
tend to be severely emotionally, if not developmentally retarded
(retarded used in it's perfectly acceptable English definition here
not the common usage) so her son can look 8 or 10 or 22 but be 2 or 5
or 15 etc...depending on the skill you are looking at. My daughter is
4.5 but is really more like a 2 yr old in many ways. And she doesn't
speak. So in speech, expressive speech, she's even further behind.
And the final "gift" of the orphanage experience is the inability to
grasp what it means to be "family" , that one won't be "sent back" for
doing "bad things", abuse, neglect, teasing, malnutrition, resource
guarding and fighting, and a general mistrust of strangers. So if
anyone can help Kelly keeping these very primal triggers in mind that
would be good. I'm reading this too because Morgan has been
"prescribed" a Nothing In Life Is Free program to make her speak (in
other words, she wants a snack and I dangle it over her head until she
says "snack" or whatever...and I'm not going to do that to her.) But
she should learn to speak because she's becoming frustrated with not
being able to get her point across to anyone but the family.
Karen
remember this child is an older (meaning not a baby) adoptee from a
foreign country where he lived in an orphanage. The pychological
changes this makes to a child are profound. My own daugther spent 3
yrs tied on her back in a crib. I had to "teach" her how to cry, that
her needs would be met, that she even HAD needs...forget about wants.
Now home some 15 months, she knows what she wants when we deal with
basic ideas like snack foods, and toys. But she has NO opinion on
clothes, dinner foods, whether or not she eats breakfast etc....
So asking Kelly to ask her son to be a partner in this journey isn't
necessarily going to work. Additionally, children from orphanages
tend to be severely emotionally, if not developmentally retarded
(retarded used in it's perfectly acceptable English definition here
not the common usage) so her son can look 8 or 10 or 22 but be 2 or 5
or 15 etc...depending on the skill you are looking at. My daughter is
4.5 but is really more like a 2 yr old in many ways. And she doesn't
speak. So in speech, expressive speech, she's even further behind.
And the final "gift" of the orphanage experience is the inability to
grasp what it means to be "family" , that one won't be "sent back" for
doing "bad things", abuse, neglect, teasing, malnutrition, resource
guarding and fighting, and a general mistrust of strangers. So if
anyone can help Kelly keeping these very primal triggers in mind that
would be good. I'm reading this too because Morgan has been
"prescribed" a Nothing In Life Is Free program to make her speak (in
other words, she wants a snack and I dangle it over her head until she
says "snack" or whatever...and I'm not going to do that to her.) But
she should learn to speak because she's becoming frustrated with not
being able to get her point across to anyone but the family.
Karen
Verna
Kelly,
I tried to respond to your post yesterday but something was wrong with Yahoo. Here I go again.
I am a speech path but I am also a mother of 4 kids (two who were adopted at the ages of 2 and 5) and also have kids with speech issue (not as severe as yours however).
Personnally, I dont believe speech therapy as you describe it is doing anything but aggrevate your son and will not help in the long run, but might actually hurt things, because his attitude toward it will be bitter but his speech will not improve unless he wants it to and is willing to work toward it. It is like trying to teach a child to read, who has not interest in reading and perhaps isnt even ready to read.
If your son is able to talk to you about what might make the therapy more bearable, I would start by discussing that with him. Perhaps he would do the exercises with you but not the therapist. (the therapist can show you what to look for and how to do them) Perhaps having siblings involved, things like that. I dont know your therapist but I ask parents about what motivates their kids not to set up a token system but to have more activities centered around their interests so that they are more likely to want to participate. Approaching that with her might help.
When it comes down to it though, thinking about your sons communication not as speech but as a whole system is important. Expanding all is his modes of communication, be is spoken language, signs, pictures, written words, hand gestures etc.. even if he continues in therapy right now, it will be years before he is through and in the meantime he needs to be able to communicate. It is all about giving him the tools and helping him learn to use them.
Hope that helps or gives you any ideas.
I tried to respond to your post yesterday but something was wrong with Yahoo. Here I go again.
I am a speech path but I am also a mother of 4 kids (two who were adopted at the ages of 2 and 5) and also have kids with speech issue (not as severe as yours however).
Personnally, I dont believe speech therapy as you describe it is doing anything but aggrevate your son and will not help in the long run, but might actually hurt things, because his attitude toward it will be bitter but his speech will not improve unless he wants it to and is willing to work toward it. It is like trying to teach a child to read, who has not interest in reading and perhaps isnt even ready to read.
If your son is able to talk to you about what might make the therapy more bearable, I would start by discussing that with him. Perhaps he would do the exercises with you but not the therapist. (the therapist can show you what to look for and how to do them) Perhaps having siblings involved, things like that. I dont know your therapist but I ask parents about what motivates their kids not to set up a token system but to have more activities centered around their interests so that they are more likely to want to participate. Approaching that with her might help.
When it comes down to it though, thinking about your sons communication not as speech but as a whole system is important. Expanding all is his modes of communication, be is spoken language, signs, pictures, written words, hand gestures etc.. even if he continues in therapy right now, it will be years before he is through and in the meantime he needs to be able to communicate. It is all about giving him the tools and helping him learn to use them.
Hope that helps or gives you any ideas.
Verna
Kelly,
One more thing.
Could you describe what speech therapy looks like for your son? What is the therapist trying to do with him? Is is in your home? Is she trying to drill him on words or sounds or is she working on non speech exercises or is she playing games etc....
One more thing.
Could you describe what speech therapy looks like for your son? What is the therapist trying to do with him? Is is in your home? Is she trying to drill him on words or sounds or is she working on non speech exercises or is she playing games etc....
kelly_sturman
Hey everybody~
Thanks for all the food for thought.
And HI KAREN!
Thanks for explaining the unique challenges that
go along with RU parenting children who have
come from situations that have taught them not
to trust, not to attach... it's really a huge difference
from having a baby and taking an AP approach with
that child from birth.
This particular son is extremely extroverted and wants
to make friends, and his speech impediment is holding
him back. So, if we drop speech therapy, he is going
to continue to experience the frustration of potential
friends quite literally turning their backs on him. He
is delightfully funny and personable, so this is really sad.
The therapy is focused on the sounds he can make.
The SLP is guiding DS to notice whether air is coming
out of his nose or out of his mouth. They are also
working on learning to close the palate. That is a big
challenge, but the first step to making most consonant
sounds.
The "work" is all very playful: they paint their palates
with blue popsicles--the SLP does the activities alongside
DS--and then look in the mirror with a flashlight to see
their palates opening and closing. They make sounds
into a mic connected to a computer so that DS can see
on the screen when he is (and when he isn't) making
glottal stops. They talk with a tube over the nose
and the other end held to the ear, again to distinguish
oral from nasal sounds. It is all very playful and low
key, but DS is a smart kid; he knows it is work. And
I'm sure he's afraid to fail.
Like Karen said, our kids have had rough starts to life.
This particular son told me that adults hit him in China.
He demonstrated placing a closed fist to his cheek. Yes,
he was punched in the face by caretakers. Another son,
from a different orphanage, a different province, was talking
to me last night about death. (My MIL is terminally ill.)
He told me that sick kids are left alone to die, and then
left until whenever "a big truck" comes to collect the corpses.
He talked about how "worms eat dead babies' eyes."
Sorry to be so graphic, but it is important to understand
that for these kids to show any weakness, to admit
any vulnerability...
...that feels like a death threat. Because where they came
from, weakness and vulnerability actually could lead to
death. It was a very brutal, survival of the fittest beginning
to life.
You know, I've tried to explain this to the SLP, but
maybe I need to have the talk again, and be just
as explicit as I have been here, so that she understands
his resistance to the therapy. I'm not sure there is anything
I can say to get her to understand my resistance to the
token economy.
I appreciate the thoughts about ASL, but the goal really
is to be understood by other people in general. ASL isn't
going to help with that, unfortunately.
Ah, it's complicated!
I appreciate all the thoughtful responses. I really do.
Now I have to decide what to do!
Kelly
P.S. The therapy is in her office; I couldn't get my
insurance to approve home visits.
Thanks for all the food for thought.
And HI KAREN!
Thanks for explaining the unique challenges that
go along with RU parenting children who have
come from situations that have taught them not
to trust, not to attach... it's really a huge difference
from having a baby and taking an AP approach with
that child from birth.
This particular son is extremely extroverted and wants
to make friends, and his speech impediment is holding
him back. So, if we drop speech therapy, he is going
to continue to experience the frustration of potential
friends quite literally turning their backs on him. He
is delightfully funny and personable, so this is really sad.
The therapy is focused on the sounds he can make.
The SLP is guiding DS to notice whether air is coming
out of his nose or out of his mouth. They are also
working on learning to close the palate. That is a big
challenge, but the first step to making most consonant
sounds.
The "work" is all very playful: they paint their palates
with blue popsicles--the SLP does the activities alongside
DS--and then look in the mirror with a flashlight to see
their palates opening and closing. They make sounds
into a mic connected to a computer so that DS can see
on the screen when he is (and when he isn't) making
glottal stops. They talk with a tube over the nose
and the other end held to the ear, again to distinguish
oral from nasal sounds. It is all very playful and low
key, but DS is a smart kid; he knows it is work. And
I'm sure he's afraid to fail.
Like Karen said, our kids have had rough starts to life.
This particular son told me that adults hit him in China.
He demonstrated placing a closed fist to his cheek. Yes,
he was punched in the face by caretakers. Another son,
from a different orphanage, a different province, was talking
to me last night about death. (My MIL is terminally ill.)
He told me that sick kids are left alone to die, and then
left until whenever "a big truck" comes to collect the corpses.
He talked about how "worms eat dead babies' eyes."
Sorry to be so graphic, but it is important to understand
that for these kids to show any weakness, to admit
any vulnerability...
...that feels like a death threat. Because where they came
from, weakness and vulnerability actually could lead to
death. It was a very brutal, survival of the fittest beginning
to life.
You know, I've tried to explain this to the SLP, but
maybe I need to have the talk again, and be just
as explicit as I have been here, so that she understands
his resistance to the therapy. I'm not sure there is anything
I can say to get her to understand my resistance to the
token economy.
I appreciate the thoughts about ASL, but the goal really
is to be understood by other people in general. ASL isn't
going to help with that, unfortunately.
Ah, it's complicated!
I appreciate all the thoughtful responses. I really do.
Now I have to decide what to do!
Kelly
P.S. The therapy is in her office; I couldn't get my
insurance to approve home visits.
--- In [email protected], "Verna" <lalow@...> wrote:
>
> Kelly,
> One more thing.
> Could you describe what speech therapy looks like for your son? What is the therapist trying to do with him? Is is in your home? Is she trying to drill him on words or sounds or is she working on non speech exercises or is she playing games etc....
>
Ulrike Haupt
Kelly
Is there any way for the therapy sessions to be shorter? Or if there is any way that you can incorporate any of the 'exercises' into your normal day to day stuff to allow him to experience 'success' towards his goal of being understood by his 'friends' without the 'pain' of the long therapy sessions.
AND I would urge you to learn EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) and assist this whole issue from your side with this wonderful technique. There seems to be so much trauma in his life already which can of course hinder his progress in many ways.
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa
PS check out emofree.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Is there any way for the therapy sessions to be shorter? Or if there is any way that you can incorporate any of the 'exercises' into your normal day to day stuff to allow him to experience 'success' towards his goal of being understood by his 'friends' without the 'pain' of the long therapy sessions.
AND I would urge you to learn EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) and assist this whole issue from your side with this wonderful technique. There seems to be so much trauma in his life already which can of course hinder his progress in many ways.
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa
PS check out emofree.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Adrean Clark
> I appreciate the thoughts about ASL, but the goal reallyThere are more ways to communicate other than Spoken English. If a
> is to be understood by other people in general. ASL isn't
> going to help with that, unfortunately.
child grows up hemmed in with the thought the only way to communicate
with other people is by speaking, that creates a miserable environment
because their abilities will never be as "normal" as "people" think.
I grew up with speech therapy and to be honest, speech therapy served
to remind me how I will NEVER have a perfect voice.
I get along just fine with the community at large by writing and
gesturing with the "signing-impaired." I've noticed that people from
some foreign countries are often comfortable using their body language
to communicate -- perhaps because they have more lingual diversity at
home and can adapt easily. It is far more important to have the
capacity of creating opportunities than to bulldoze through a single
option.
ASL is also used in full-hearing classroom to give children a
kinesthetic feel of language -- it increases literacy. The research
is on the web. It does not jibe with unschooling principles to
dismiss an option without considering it thoroughly, especially when
it comes to something as sensitive as a structural difference in the
body.
Adrean
Adrean Clark
I forgot to add -- ASL is a visual-spatial language, and benefits
those areas of the brain. My point is not the direct language itself,
my point is that ASL is one door to learning different ways to express
oneself. I don't expect you as a fully hearing family to learn the
entire language, but signs as a tool will help meet the goal of
expressing oneself fluently, whichever mode.
those areas of the brain. My point is not the direct language itself,
my point is that ASL is one door to learning different ways to express
oneself. I don't expect you as a fully hearing family to learn the
entire language, but signs as a tool will help meet the goal of
expressing oneself fluently, whichever mode.
Verna
> I forgot to add -- ASL is a visual-spatial language, and benefitsThat was kind of what I was trying to get at when I suggested the poster look at language as a system and not just spoken language. The important factor here is giving the child a means of total communication so frustration is lessoned.
> those areas of the brain. My point is not the direct language itself,
> my point is that ASL is one door to learning different ways to express
> oneself. I don't expect you as a fully hearing family to learn the
> entire language, but signs as a tool will help meet the goal of
> expressing oneself fluently, whichever mode.
>
Adrean Clark
> That was kind of what I was trying to get at when I suggested the posterAgree -- When things break down with our kids we offer them
> look at language as a system and not just spoken language. The important
> factor here is giving the child a means of total communication so
> frustration is lessoned.
alternatives, like pointing at things or asking questions like what
color is it? Where did you see it? Then after the a-ha! moment we
repeat the sign for it or keep their term for it in mind. We try to
keep the channel open, try to keep it clear that it's ME that doesn't
understand them. Not everyone's willing to -- and even after years of
therapy there are people who walk away. It is their problem -- the
main thing is to have the confidence to let it go.
Adrean Clark
> That was kind of what I was trying to get at when I suggested the posterAgree -- When things break down with our kids we offer them
> look at language as a system and not just spoken language. The important
> factor here is giving the child a means of total communication so
> frustration is lessoned.
alternatives, like pointing at things or asking questions like what
color is it? Where did you see it? Then after the a-ha! moment we
repeat the sign for it or keep their term for it in mind. We try to
keep the channel open, try to keep it clear that it's ME that doesn't
understand them. Not everyone's willing to -- and even after years of
therapy there are people who walk away. It is their problem -- the
main thing is to have the confidence to let it go.
kelly_sturman
--- In [email protected], Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...> wrote:
to me to be less pessimistic and discouraged. I don't want to
pass those attitudes along, so thank you for sharing the POV! :-)
And DS is great at using body language, gestures, pointing, or
actually taking us to the thing/place/person he wants on those
occasions when we don't understand him.
For instance, DS may want to play violin with his sibs, and if
he wants to let them know what string the song starts on,
he can only say E and A. And then we don't know whether
he means E, D, or G. Of course, he can simply point to the
string he means, but he can also use the sign.
We all have fun playing around with ASL. It came into my
home b/c my dad was a paramedic who wanted to be able
to communicate with deaf patients. I picked up a little, and
for awhile, DH and I would use signs while eating. Didn't want
to talk with our mouths full, but were young and in love and
had so much to share. And then our kids picked up an interest
from us, and so here we are, knowing a little and having
fun with it.
I did sound dismissive. I am sorry. It would have been
better to say that we are playing with ASL and will follow
DS's lead in exploring it further, but that I remain concerned.
The kids who won't take the time to figure out his utterances
probably aren't going to take the time to learn ASL either.
But as a later poster mentioned, there will always be people
who don't understand and that is a reality that DS is going
to have to come to terms with.
I remain optimistic that in time, his spoken language will
be much more understandable to most people. He is
very funny and outgoing and a lot of people are missing
out on his insights because they aren't taking the time
to understand him.
Again, thanks for all the suggestions. I am giving
them all more consideration than my too terse
response would have you believe.
Warmly,
Kelly Sturman
> I get along just fine with the community at large by writing andThis is a very hopeful way to look at the situation, and very helpful
> gesturing with the "signing-impaired."
to me to be less pessimistic and discouraged. I don't want to
pass those attitudes along, so thank you for sharing the POV! :-)
And DS is great at using body language, gestures, pointing, or
actually taking us to the thing/place/person he wants on those
occasions when we don't understand him.
> ASL is also used in full-hearing classroom to give children aI know. We actually all do finger spell, and that is helpful.
> kinesthetic feel of language -- it increases literacy. The research
> is on the web.
For instance, DS may want to play violin with his sibs, and if
he wants to let them know what string the song starts on,
he can only say E and A. And then we don't know whether
he means E, D, or G. Of course, he can simply point to the
string he means, but he can also use the sign.
We all have fun playing around with ASL. It came into my
home b/c my dad was a paramedic who wanted to be able
to communicate with deaf patients. I picked up a little, and
for awhile, DH and I would use signs while eating. Didn't want
to talk with our mouths full, but were young and in love and
had so much to share. And then our kids picked up an interest
from us, and so here we are, knowing a little and having
fun with it.
>It does not jibe with unschooling principles toAdrean, you are right, of course. Re-reading my response,
> dismiss an option without considering it thoroughly
I did sound dismissive. I am sorry. It would have been
better to say that we are playing with ASL and will follow
DS's lead in exploring it further, but that I remain concerned.
The kids who won't take the time to figure out his utterances
probably aren't going to take the time to learn ASL either.
But as a later poster mentioned, there will always be people
who don't understand and that is a reality that DS is going
to have to come to terms with.
I remain optimistic that in time, his spoken language will
be much more understandable to most people. He is
very funny and outgoing and a lot of people are missing
out on his insights because they aren't taking the time
to understand him.
Again, thanks for all the suggestions. I am giving
them all more consideration than my too terse
response would have you believe.
Warmly,
Kelly Sturman
Adrean Clark
We're out of town on a trip and I can't write much on this pager, but
Kelly I wanted to thank you for sharing further detail about your
stance on ASL. You are doing excellent with providing options - it may
be the only thing is giving it time, letting your son have time to
figure things out without professional "help." The difference is how
he feels about it. I'm sure others will have more advice :)
Adrean
Kelly I wanted to thank you for sharing further detail about your
stance on ASL. You are doing excellent with providing options - it may
be the only thing is giving it time, letting your son have time to
figure things out without professional "help." The difference is how
he feels about it. I'm sure others will have more advice :)
Adrean
On 3/27/09, kelly_sturman <kelly_sturman@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...>
> wrote:
>
>> I get along just fine with the community at large by writing and
>> gesturing with the "signing-impaired."
>
> This is a very hopeful way to look at the situation, and very helpful
> to me to be less pessimistic and discouraged. I don't want to
> pass those attitudes along, so thank you for sharing the POV! :-)
> And DS is great at using body language, gestures, pointing, or
> actually taking us to the thing/place/person he wants on those
> occasions when we don't understand him.
>
>> ASL is also used in full-hearing classroom to give children a
>> kinesthetic feel of language -- it increases literacy. The research
>> is on the web.
>
> I know. We actually all do finger spell, and that is helpful.
> For instance, DS may want to play violin with his sibs, and if
> he wants to let them know what string the song starts on,
> he can only say E and A. And then we don't know whether
> he means E, D, or G. Of course, he can simply point to the
> string he means, but he can also use the sign.
>
> We all have fun playing around with ASL. It came into my
> home b/c my dad was a paramedic who wanted to be able
> to communicate with deaf patients. I picked up a little, and
> for awhile, DH and I would use signs while eating. Didn't want
> to talk with our mouths full, but were young and in love and
> had so much to share. And then our kids picked up an interest
> from us, and so here we are, knowing a little and having
> fun with it.
>
>>It does not jibe with unschooling principles to
>> dismiss an option without considering it thoroughly
>
> Adrean, you are right, of course. Re-reading my response,
> I did sound dismissive. I am sorry. It would have been
> better to say that we are playing with ASL and will follow
> DS's lead in exploring it further, but that I remain concerned.
> The kids who won't take the time to figure out his utterances
> probably aren't going to take the time to learn ASL either.
>
> But as a later poster mentioned, there will always be people
> who don't understand and that is a reality that DS is going
> to have to come to terms with.
>
> I remain optimistic that in time, his spoken language will
> be much more understandable to most people. He is
> very funny and outgoing and a lot of people are missing
> out on his insights because they aren't taking the time
> to understand him.
>
> Again, thanks for all the suggestions. I am giving
> them all more consideration than my too terse
> response would have you believe.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Kelly Sturman
>
>
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