Is setting boundaries compatible with unschooling?
aenclade
I came across this post by an unschooling mom on a blog called Life
Learning.org
It sounds like something has gone terribly wrong for her along the
way...I would love to hear your take on it.
http://www.lifelearning.org/2009/03/14/are-setting-boundaries-compatible\
-with-unschooling/
Is Setting Boundaries Compatible With Unschooling?
By Lisa - Unschooling Mom
We are having some boundary issues in our home. I have been examining my
part in all of it.
The issues seem small but become very big. Things like we have 10
hairbrushes and no one can find one and they know I always keep one on
my dresser so they take it and the its not there when i want it.
I have a craft room and I am meticulous about my supplies which are
expensive and hard to organize. Kids feel like making a card and I go in
and tops left off markers and they are ruined.. supplies every where.
I can't find my deodorant and it got taken to a sleep over and left
behind, I have some fairly expensive make up and is also disappears.
Kids bake something because I have just spent half hour cleaning kitchen
and looks like bomb went off.
All of the above happens and this is not what bothers me so much- its
the attitude I get when I mention it. Shrug of shoulders or "go buy
a new one" which escalates.
Here is my take on it. I have been a radical unschooling for almost 11
years. I am going to be honest and say I don't think it is working
for me anymore. I have written about my marriage jumping off the rails
and I have been reflecting back on some of the things I would do
differently.
Maybe I have been "unschooling wrong" .
I don't "make" my kids so chores and I don't worry about
the state of the house It has always felt beneath me. As a result we
have been living in CHAOS and I think it has undermined the fabric of
our family. I am not looking for perfection or even a TIDY house. I mean
we are late for things because I can't find socks or my keys got put
somewhere or my son doesn't know where his game boy is etc.
My husband feels crappy because he works hard all day to pay for our hoe
and comes home and there is jam on the walls.
The "old" me would have been- hey they had fun smearing jam on
the walls - whats the big deal- but it IS bothering me know. I don't
know why the paradigm shift.
Maybe its because as the kids get older I am seeing a total lack of
regard for "stuff" and it filters to not just there stuff but
mys stuff and other people stuff if that makes sense.
I have done my kids a disservice. I have let chaos win. Putting off
things and procrastination has made everything an emergency . I have
shown a lack of respect to my life and the"business of life" and
they maybe are picking up on it?
As part if getting our marriage back on track we have been dealing with
"crap". Al the crap that we have avoided because it wasn't
fun. Like house repairs or taking care of a forgotten bill. In short we
are owning up and dealing with the consequences of our actions.
Maybe the The kids have sort of been dragged along and there were never
boundaries and now there are. I have never believed in punishments but I
honestly have been re-thinking that concept. The other day when my craft
area was left a disaster I had her clean he mess up but also sweep and
wash the floor . My girlfriend is also an unschooling and she is trying
to convince me that this wasn't a punishment but
"consequences" - Just feels like semantics to me.
It could also be that I never had stuff that my daughter thought was
appealing and now she does. I did take here out and buy her own make up-
but mine still seems more appealing
I feel like my kids take the easy road and short cuts to instant
gratification and I have taught them this and not sure where to go from
here.
This post is a but rambling and iut of a stream of consciousness thing
going on I apologize!
I am going to talk with kids over the week about some of the change in
our home- like the fact that life will be easier for us if there is some
"order" .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Learning.org
It sounds like something has gone terribly wrong for her along the
way...I would love to hear your take on it.
http://www.lifelearning.org/2009/03/14/are-setting-boundaries-compatible\
-with-unschooling/
Is Setting Boundaries Compatible With Unschooling?
By Lisa - Unschooling Mom
We are having some boundary issues in our home. I have been examining my
part in all of it.
The issues seem small but become very big. Things like we have 10
hairbrushes and no one can find one and they know I always keep one on
my dresser so they take it and the its not there when i want it.
I have a craft room and I am meticulous about my supplies which are
expensive and hard to organize. Kids feel like making a card and I go in
and tops left off markers and they are ruined.. supplies every where.
I can't find my deodorant and it got taken to a sleep over and left
behind, I have some fairly expensive make up and is also disappears.
Kids bake something because I have just spent half hour cleaning kitchen
and looks like bomb went off.
All of the above happens and this is not what bothers me so much- its
the attitude I get when I mention it. Shrug of shoulders or "go buy
a new one" which escalates.
Here is my take on it. I have been a radical unschooling for almost 11
years. I am going to be honest and say I don't think it is working
for me anymore. I have written about my marriage jumping off the rails
and I have been reflecting back on some of the things I would do
differently.
Maybe I have been "unschooling wrong" .
I don't "make" my kids so chores and I don't worry about
the state of the house It has always felt beneath me. As a result we
have been living in CHAOS and I think it has undermined the fabric of
our family. I am not looking for perfection or even a TIDY house. I mean
we are late for things because I can't find socks or my keys got put
somewhere or my son doesn't know where his game boy is etc.
My husband feels crappy because he works hard all day to pay for our hoe
and comes home and there is jam on the walls.
The "old" me would have been- hey they had fun smearing jam on
the walls - whats the big deal- but it IS bothering me know. I don't
know why the paradigm shift.
Maybe its because as the kids get older I am seeing a total lack of
regard for "stuff" and it filters to not just there stuff but
mys stuff and other people stuff if that makes sense.
I have done my kids a disservice. I have let chaos win. Putting off
things and procrastination has made everything an emergency . I have
shown a lack of respect to my life and the"business of life" and
they maybe are picking up on it?
As part if getting our marriage back on track we have been dealing with
"crap". Al the crap that we have avoided because it wasn't
fun. Like house repairs or taking care of a forgotten bill. In short we
are owning up and dealing with the consequences of our actions.
Maybe the The kids have sort of been dragged along and there were never
boundaries and now there are. I have never believed in punishments but I
honestly have been re-thinking that concept. The other day when my craft
area was left a disaster I had her clean he mess up but also sweep and
wash the floor . My girlfriend is also an unschooling and she is trying
to convince me that this wasn't a punishment but
"consequences" - Just feels like semantics to me.
It could also be that I never had stuff that my daughter thought was
appealing and now she does. I did take here out and buy her own make up-
but mine still seems more appealing
I feel like my kids take the easy road and short cuts to instant
gratification and I have taught them this and not sure where to go from
here.
This post is a but rambling and iut of a stream of consciousness thing
going on I apologize!
I am going to talk with kids over the week about some of the change in
our home- like the fact that life will be easier for us if there is some
"order" .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
--- In [email protected], "aenclade" <aenclade@...> wrote:
Looks like she wants to blame unschooling for her own lack of ability to function in a healthy manner. Great scapegoat when you should be examining yourself and your relationship with your children.
In fostering healthy relationships first and foremost, you avoid most of the issues she was complaining about.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>What I read there, is about adults that have issues with understanding their own needs and pretty much neglecting a LOT of things in their lives...probably the children too. Unschooling is about being in partnership with our children, not ignoring issues or challenges as they come along.
> I came across this post by an unschooling mom on a blog called Life
> Learning.org
> It sounds like something has gone terribly wrong for her along the
> way...I would love to hear your take on it.
> http://www.lifelearning.org/2009/03/14/are-setting-boundaries-compatible\
> -with-unschooling/
>
> Is Setting Boundaries Compatible With Unschooling?
>
> By Lisa - Unschooling Mom
Looks like she wants to blame unschooling for her own lack of ability to function in a healthy manner. Great scapegoat when you should be examining yourself and your relationship with your children.
In fostering healthy relationships first and foremost, you avoid most of the issues she was complaining about.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
Exactly.
Its fine to stretch your boundaries a bit - it can be a really essential part of building good relationships with our kids. And some people need to stretch more than others, depending on your background. I had to stretch a Lot! But its another thing entirely to ignore your personal boundaries. Not only does that wear you down, and erode your relationships in the process, it doesn't give your kids very useful information about relationships and people and what it means to be an adult.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
>> What I read there, is about adults that have issues with understanding their own needs and pretty much neglecting a LOT of things in their lives...probably the children too. Unschooling is about being in partnership with our children, not ignoring issues or challenges as they come along.***********************************
Exactly.
Its fine to stretch your boundaries a bit - it can be a really essential part of building good relationships with our kids. And some people need to stretch more than others, depending on your background. I had to stretch a Lot! But its another thing entirely to ignore your personal boundaries. Not only does that wear you down, and erode your relationships in the process, it doesn't give your kids very useful information about relationships and people and what it means to be an adult.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Joyce Fetteroll
It's useful to examine where people are misinterpreting what
unschoolers say so we can help make it clearer!
unschooling.
Forcing kids to do chores whittles away at our relationships. But
*do* invite them along to do something with you! And ask for help.
Accept no as an answer and thank them sincerely when they help.
While it's great to celebrate kids free spirits, their spirits can be
channeled into more acceptable free expression. Finger paint in the
bathtub. Or even a tub of really cheap jelly. (Then shower them off
before they get out!) Do it outside where it and the kids can be
hosed off.
boundaries haven't been practiced, there's no reason for the kids to
pick them up out of no where!
If they're taking Mom's brush they need help not losing their own.
Expecting kids to learn to be neat in a house where mom isn't helping
them find ways to be neater, is unreasonable. I can feel overwhelmed
by a mess. To kids it looks 10 times bigger.
If they're taking her craft supplies, "Those are mine. You need to
ask. And I'll help you," needs said. There needs to be no benefit to
doing it without asking. Obviously it needed said long ago and
there's damage to be undone. But no better time to start than right now.
They're also sounding left on their own too much. Perhaps because
she's spending all her time cleaning up after them! Unless they're
whirlwinds of energy who can trash a room in 5 minutes, she should
have been aware of what they were doing in her craft room and kitchen.
Being proactive rather than reactive can help a lot. Rethinking how
messes are happening or how she's getting so distracted she's not
noticing they're creating messes will help. Asking for help cleaning
up. Being with them more.
feel respected or because the person they're talking to doesn't
respect themselves. The second is coming across pretty clearly. The
things that happened *should* bother her. The conventional response
is to get angry and punish. The respectful answer (of kids and self)
is "Hey, this isn't working. Let's figure out how to make this work."
*Also* a factor in the disrespect is the marriage having problems,
including financial. Kids often reflect back our attitudes, even if
we think we're hiding them. If the tension is up in the house, the
kids are going to feed back into it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschoolers say so we can help make it clearer!
> I don't "make" my kids so chores and I don't worry aboutThe state of our homes is a personal choice, not a result of
> the state of the house It has always felt beneath me. As a result we
> have been living in CHAOS and I think it has undermined the fabric of
> our family.
unschooling.
Forcing kids to do chores whittles away at our relationships. But
*do* invite them along to do something with you! And ask for help.
Accept no as an answer and thank them sincerely when they help.
> My husband feels crappy because he works hard all day to pay forI wouldn't want my husband to laugh off something that bothered me.
> our hoe
> and comes home and there is jam on the walls.
> The "old" me would have been- hey they had fun smearing jam on
> the walls - whats the big deal- but it IS bothering me know.
While it's great to celebrate kids free spirits, their spirits can be
channeled into more acceptable free expression. Finger paint in the
bathtub. Or even a tub of really cheap jelly. (Then shower them off
before they get out!) Do it outside where it and the kids can be
hosed off.
> Maybe its because as the kids get older I am seeing a total lack ofThey're practicing what's been modeled for them. If personal
> regard for "stuff"� and it filters to not just there stuff but
> mys stuff and other people stuff if that makes sense.
boundaries haven't been practiced, there's no reason for the kids to
pick them up out of no where!
If they're taking Mom's brush they need help not losing their own.
Expecting kids to learn to be neat in a house where mom isn't helping
them find ways to be neater, is unreasonable. I can feel overwhelmed
by a mess. To kids it looks 10 times bigger.
If they're taking her craft supplies, "Those are mine. You need to
ask. And I'll help you," needs said. There needs to be no benefit to
doing it without asking. Obviously it needed said long ago and
there's damage to be undone. But no better time to start than right now.
They're also sounding left on their own too much. Perhaps because
she's spending all her time cleaning up after them! Unless they're
whirlwinds of energy who can trash a room in 5 minutes, she should
have been aware of what they were doing in her craft room and kitchen.
Being proactive rather than reactive can help a lot. Rethinking how
messes are happening or how she's getting so distracted she's not
noticing they're creating messes will help. Asking for help cleaning
up. Being with them more.
> All of the above happens and this is not what bothers me so much- itsIf kids are responding with disrespect it's either because they don't
> the attitude I get when I mention it. Shrug of shoulders or "go buy
> a new one" which escalates.
feel respected or because the person they're talking to doesn't
respect themselves. The second is coming across pretty clearly. The
things that happened *should* bother her. The conventional response
is to get angry and punish. The respectful answer (of kids and self)
is "Hey, this isn't working. Let's figure out how to make this work."
*Also* a factor in the disrespect is the marriage having problems,
including financial. Kids often reflect back our attitudes, even if
we think we're hiding them. If the tension is up in the house, the
kids are going to feed back into it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/17/2009 1:23 PM, aenclade wrote:
couple of days. Here is what I wrote:
I have great sympathy and understanding of your situation. We radically
unschooled, too, in every way except regarding house upkeep. I DID
require my kids to help and we had angry scenes over it. My house was
STILL a big mess, disorganized, and so on. So I’m not sure that setting
boundaries would have helped you. The real problem was MY attitude about
taking care of our things. You say you thought it was beneath you and
that is EXACTLY what my problem was, too.
I stopped making my kids help out and changed MY attitude completely. I
started taking a little more time to lovingly care for our house and our
things. I purposely cultivated a positive attitude about it. I
constantly repeated to myself the reasons why I was picking up (to clear
space for our next project, to create a more peaceful space for us to
enjoy, etc.). And I focused on enjoying what I was doing - I mean,
seriously, I LOOKED at my dishes and thought about how pretty they were.
I felt the warm water and concentrated on the good smell of the dish
soap. I mean - it sounds SO corny - but I did it for about a month very
conscientiously.
It made a HUGE difference. I ignored whether other people were helping
or not helping for that entire month. Once in a while I might cheerfully
ask someone to do something for me, but not often.
It has been a few years since that month and it has made a HUGE
difference in the atmosphere around here. Housework seems almost
effortless - sometimes the house gets messy, but we just cheerfully
clean it up. I still do more than anybody else - but I don’t feel
burdened by it. I do it out of love, not with resentment.
I did housework with resentment because I didn’t think it was FAIR that
I had to do so much of it. I thought everybody ought to chip in and do
their share. I groused and whined and slammed things and just had a
negative general attitude.
My own complete turnaround caused a turnaround in my whole family. They
do far more now than when I was demanding it.
> I came across this post by an unschooling mom on a blog called LifeI wrote a comment on the blog - but it has been waiting for moderation a
> Learning.org
> It sounds like something has gone terribly wrong for her along the
> way...I would love to hear your take on it.
> http://www.lifelearning.org/2009/03/14/are-setting-boundaries-compatible\
> -with-unschooling/
>
> Is Setting Boundaries Compatible With Unschooling?
>
>
couple of days. Here is what I wrote:
I have great sympathy and understanding of your situation. We radically
unschooled, too, in every way except regarding house upkeep. I DID
require my kids to help and we had angry scenes over it. My house was
STILL a big mess, disorganized, and so on. So I’m not sure that setting
boundaries would have helped you. The real problem was MY attitude about
taking care of our things. You say you thought it was beneath you and
that is EXACTLY what my problem was, too.
I stopped making my kids help out and changed MY attitude completely. I
started taking a little more time to lovingly care for our house and our
things. I purposely cultivated a positive attitude about it. I
constantly repeated to myself the reasons why I was picking up (to clear
space for our next project, to create a more peaceful space for us to
enjoy, etc.). And I focused on enjoying what I was doing - I mean,
seriously, I LOOKED at my dishes and thought about how pretty they were.
I felt the warm water and concentrated on the good smell of the dish
soap. I mean - it sounds SO corny - but I did it for about a month very
conscientiously.
It made a HUGE difference. I ignored whether other people were helping
or not helping for that entire month. Once in a while I might cheerfully
ask someone to do something for me, but not often.
It has been a few years since that month and it has made a HUGE
difference in the atmosphere around here. Housework seems almost
effortless - sometimes the house gets messy, but we just cheerfully
clean it up. I still do more than anybody else - but I don’t feel
burdened by it. I do it out of love, not with resentment.
I did housework with resentment because I didn’t think it was FAIR that
I had to do so much of it. I thought everybody ought to chip in and do
their share. I groused and whined and slammed things and just had a
negative general attitude.
My own complete turnaround caused a turnaround in my whole family. They
do far more now than when I was demanding it.
Aidan Tro
"Pam Sorooshian wrote:
"I did housework with resentment because I didn’t think it was FAIR that
I had to do so much of it. I thought everybody ought to chip in and do
their share. I groused and whined and slammed things and just had a
negative general attitude.
My own complete turnaround caused a turnaround in my whole family. They
do far more now than when I was demanding it."
I have to second this comment. I've gone through a similar process with my own four kids. I always felt that with so many kids, it was impossible for me to keep up. I hated the way they would eat food while watching tv, throwing wrappers on the floor like they expected me, their maid, to come along and pick up after them. And they can really make a mess fast!
What led me to work on my own attitude was the fact that it simply didn't work to try and follow four kids around, haranguing them to clean. They would wait until I was concentrating on another kid, then sidle off, laughing, to go play somewhere else.
Changing my attitude did work. I realized I could spend my time whining, or cleaning. Now when there's a big mess I just say, "Hey, would you please help me pick this stuff up?" and amazingly, they do it cheerfully more often than not! I would never have thought my kids would be helpful like this. For us, I think my respectful attitude reminded them that they really love me and want me to be happy. It just wiped the conflict away.
Aidan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"I did housework with resentment because I didn’t think it was FAIR that
I had to do so much of it. I thought everybody ought to chip in and do
their share. I groused and whined and slammed things and just had a
negative general attitude.
My own complete turnaround caused a turnaround in my whole family. They
do far more now than when I was demanding it."
I have to second this comment. I've gone through a similar process with my own four kids. I always felt that with so many kids, it was impossible for me to keep up. I hated the way they would eat food while watching tv, throwing wrappers on the floor like they expected me, their maid, to come along and pick up after them. And they can really make a mess fast!
What led me to work on my own attitude was the fact that it simply didn't work to try and follow four kids around, haranguing them to clean. They would wait until I was concentrating on another kid, then sidle off, laughing, to go play somewhere else.
Changing my attitude did work. I realized I could spend my time whining, or cleaning. Now when there's a big mess I just say, "Hey, would you please help me pick this stuff up?" and amazingly, they do it cheerfully more often than not! I would never have thought my kids would be helpful like this. For us, I think my respectful attitude reminded them that they really love me and want me to be happy. It just wiped the conflict away.
Aidan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aenclade
All of your replies are very helpful.
I now remember something AS Neil said in his Summerhill book-
"there is a difference between freedom and license"
I was a bit confused by this statement but now I think I get it.
Amanda Enclade
--- In [email protected], "aenclade" <aenclade@...>
wrote:
\
I now remember something AS Neil said in his Summerhill book-
"there is a difference between freedom and license"
I was a bit confused by this statement but now I think I get it.
Amanda Enclade
--- In [email protected], "aenclade" <aenclade@...>
wrote:
>http://www.lifelearning.org/2009/03/14/are-setting-boundaries-compatible\
> I came across this post by an unschooling mom on a blog called Life
> Learning.org
> It sounds like something has gone terribly wrong for her along the
> way...I would love to hear your take on it.
>
\
> -with-unschooling/my
>
> Is Setting Boundaries Compatible With Unschooling?
>
> By Lisa - Unschooling Mom
>
> We are having some boundary issues in our home. I have been examining
> part in all of it.in
> The issues seem small but become very big. Things like we have 10
> hairbrushes and no one can find one and they know I always keep one on
> my dresser so they take it and the its not there when i want it.
> I have a craft room and I am meticulous about my supplies which are
> expensive and hard to organize. Kids feel like making a card and I go
> and tops left off markers and they are ruined.. supplies every where.kitchen
> I can't find my deodorant and it got taken to a sleep over and left
> behind, I have some fairly expensive make up and is also disappears.
> Kids bake something because I have just spent half hour cleaning
> and looks like bomb went off.mean
> All of the above happens and this is not what bothers me so much- its
> the attitude I get when I mention it. Shrug of shoulders or "go buy
> a new one" which escalates.
>
> Here is my take on it. I have been a radical unschooling for almost 11
> years. I am going to be honest and say I don't think it is working
> for me anymore. I have written about my marriage jumping off the rails
> and I have been reflecting back on some of the things I would do
> differently.
> Maybe I have been "unschooling wrong" .
> I don't "make" my kids so chores and I don't worry about
> the state of the house It has always felt beneath me. As a result we
> have been living in CHAOS and I think it has undermined the fabric of
> our family. I am not looking for perfection or even a TIDY house. I
> we are late for things because I can't find socks or my keys got puthoe
> somewhere or my son doesn't know where his game boy is etc.
> My husband feels crappy because he works hard all day to pay for our
> and comes home and there is jam on the walls.with
> The "old" me would have been- hey they had fun smearing jam on
> the walls - whats the big deal- but it IS bothering me know. I don't
> know why the paradigm shift.
> Maybe its because as the kids get older I am seeing a total lack of
> regard for "stuff" and it filters to not just there stuff but
> mys stuff and other people stuff if that makes sense.
>
> I have done my kids a disservice. I have let chaos win. Putting off
> things and procrastination has made everything an emergency . I have
> shown a lack of respect to my life and the"business of life" and
> they maybe are picking up on it?
> As part if getting our marriage back on track we have been dealing
> "crap". Al the crap that we have avoided because it wasn'twe
> fun. Like house repairs or taking care of a forgotten bill. In short
> are owning up and dealing with the consequences of our actions.never
>
> Maybe the The kids have sort of been dragged along and there were
> boundaries and now there are. I have never believed in punishments butI
> honestly have been re-thinking that concept. The other day when mycraft
> area was left a disaster I had her clean he mess up but also sweep andtrying
> wash the floor . My girlfriend is also an unschooling and she is
> to convince me that this wasn't a punishment butup-
> "consequences" - Just feels like semantics to me.
> It could also be that I never had stuff that my daughter thought was
> appealing and now she does. I did take here out and buy her own make
> but mine still seems more appealingfrom
> I feel like my kids take the easy road and short cuts to instant
> gratification and I have taught them this and not sure where to go
> here.some
> This post is a but rambling and iut of a stream of consciousness thing
> going on I apologize!
> I am going to talk with kids over the week about some of the change in
> our home- like the fact that life will be easier for us if there is
> "order" .[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
tmissinne
"As a result we > have been living in CHAOS and I think it has
undermined the fabric of > our family. I am not looking for perfection
or even a TIDY house. I mean > we are late for things because I can't
find socks or my keys got put > somewhere or my son doesn't know where
his game boy is etc. > My husband feels crappy because he works
hard all day to pay for our hoe > and comes home and there is jam on the
walls." This is definitely something I misunderstood when we first
started unschooling. I pretty much thought that if you didn't go along
with pretty much everything they wanted to do, you were impeding there
free expression. I was on another unschooling list, which I won't name
and I'm not on now, where people were talking about there children
losing friends because they were basically being rude, and others agreed
that it might happen in unschooling because other people couldn't take
being around someone who had freedom of expression. I was so relieved
when I found out that this wasn't the attitude of all unschoolers. So,
on the cleaning issue, for awhile I was pretty much letting the house
go. But it made me feel so bad, I just don't function well with alot of
clutter and mess around me. Our couch was getting ruined from spilled
food, etc. I had been realizing that it wasn't what I needed, and in the
course of conversations with my mom discussing radical unschooling she
brought up the point that they didn't seem to care about there
belongings, or too much about other peoples, and I realized she was
right. This was the clincher for me. My husband and I cleaned for a
solid four hours when they were at their grandma's and when they came
home, my older son, who is four, walked in the door, breathed out a big
sigh, and said "I've been waiting for you to clean." After that, the
change in their behaviour was remarkable, they seem so much calmer, and
I'm calmer. They don't help out too much, they're only four and two, but
I've developed little techniques. Like if we're playing something that
involves moving from room to room, I just pick up a couple of things
that go to the next room, and I can put them away without interrupting
our game. Having a clean house has made such a difference. Trisha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
undermined the fabric of > our family. I am not looking for perfection
or even a TIDY house. I mean > we are late for things because I can't
find socks or my keys got put > somewhere or my son doesn't know where
his game boy is etc. > My husband feels crappy because he works
hard all day to pay for our hoe > and comes home and there is jam on the
walls." This is definitely something I misunderstood when we first
started unschooling. I pretty much thought that if you didn't go along
with pretty much everything they wanted to do, you were impeding there
free expression. I was on another unschooling list, which I won't name
and I'm not on now, where people were talking about there children
losing friends because they were basically being rude, and others agreed
that it might happen in unschooling because other people couldn't take
being around someone who had freedom of expression. I was so relieved
when I found out that this wasn't the attitude of all unschoolers. So,
on the cleaning issue, for awhile I was pretty much letting the house
go. But it made me feel so bad, I just don't function well with alot of
clutter and mess around me. Our couch was getting ruined from spilled
food, etc. I had been realizing that it wasn't what I needed, and in the
course of conversations with my mom discussing radical unschooling she
brought up the point that they didn't seem to care about there
belongings, or too much about other peoples, and I realized she was
right. This was the clincher for me. My husband and I cleaned for a
solid four hours when they were at their grandma's and when they came
home, my older son, who is four, walked in the door, breathed out a big
sigh, and said "I've been waiting for you to clean." After that, the
change in their behaviour was remarkable, they seem so much calmer, and
I'm calmer. They don't help out too much, they're only four and two, but
I've developed little techniques. Like if we're playing something that
involves moving from room to room, I just pick up a couple of things
that go to the next room, and I can put them away without interrupting
our game. Having a clean house has made such a difference. Trisha
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Nicole Willoughby
lol! I just had to laugh about the comment in the article about 10 hairbrushes ....thats our house.
I *do* have one of those kids who ...forget a room ....destroys a house in under 5 minutes and he just dosen't have the mental capacity to understand needs ( or perceived needs ) other than his own.
I ended up literally sneaking off for some time to myself and wrote down problems and came back for a meeting with dad and the girls.
One of our biggest problems is mornings...dad has to be at work at a certain time, 2 youngers have to be at school at a certain time, oldest likes to stay up late and dosent want to get up in the am, we cant find what we need to get out the door, its chaos, everyone is stressed. Now we take time to get together backpacks and pick out clothes the night before. Oldest goes in her jammies and the girls have 2 sets of brushes . One set in the house and one sits out in the car . I we are running late/cant find the brush then the youngest buckles in her carseat and brushes on the way to school. Sometimes they do nearly all the night before work and sometimes i do it for them ....either way morning go so much smoother and HAPPIER!
Someone else mentioned grabbing little opportunities .....
My house will probably always be a mess no matter how hard and long I work on cleaning it. Ive learned to let go of a lot and just enjoy the kids but Ive also learned to grab opportunities. my 9 year old would rather chop her own arm off than clean but she loves to cook so on nights that she volunteers to help with dinner i let her do as much of the cooking as she wants and I talk to her while picking up the living room or folding clothes from the dryer.
Nicole
Never play with hot lava in the house ~Alyssa,5
I *do* have one of those kids who ...forget a room ....destroys a house in under 5 minutes and he just dosen't have the mental capacity to understand needs ( or perceived needs ) other than his own.
I ended up literally sneaking off for some time to myself and wrote down problems and came back for a meeting with dad and the girls.
One of our biggest problems is mornings...dad has to be at work at a certain time, 2 youngers have to be at school at a certain time, oldest likes to stay up late and dosent want to get up in the am, we cant find what we need to get out the door, its chaos, everyone is stressed. Now we take time to get together backpacks and pick out clothes the night before. Oldest goes in her jammies and the girls have 2 sets of brushes . One set in the house and one sits out in the car . I we are running late/cant find the brush then the youngest buckles in her carseat and brushes on the way to school. Sometimes they do nearly all the night before work and sometimes i do it for them ....either way morning go so much smoother and HAPPIER!
Someone else mentioned grabbing little opportunities .....
My house will probably always be a mess no matter how hard and long I work on cleaning it. Ive learned to let go of a lot and just enjoy the kids but Ive also learned to grab opportunities. my 9 year old would rather chop her own arm off than clean but she loves to cook so on nights that she volunteers to help with dinner i let her do as much of the cooking as she wants and I talk to her while picking up the living room or folding clothes from the dryer.
Nicole
Never play with hot lava in the house ~Alyssa,5
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, aenclade <aenclade@...> wrote:
From: aenclade <aenclade@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Is setting boundaries compatible with unschooling?
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 9:28 PM
All of your replies are very helpful.
I now remember something AS Neil said in his Summerhill book-
"there is a difference between freedom and license"
I was a bit confused by this statement but now I think I get it.
Amanda Enclade
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "aenclade" <aenclade@.. .>
wrote:
>
> I came across this post by an unschooling mom on a blog called Life
> Learning.org
> It sounds like something has gone terribly wrong for her along the
> way...I would love to hear your take on it.
>
http://www.lifelear ning.org/ 2009/03/14/ are-setting- boundaries- compatible\
\
> -with-unschooling/
>
> Is Setting Boundaries Compatible With Unschooling?
>
> By Lisa - Unschooling Mom
>
> We are having some boundary issues in our home. I have been examining
my
> part in all of it.
> The issues seem small but become very big. Things like we have 10
> hairbrushes and no one can find one and they know I always keep one on
> my dresser so they take it and the its not there when i want it.
> I have a craft room and I am meticulous about my supplies which are
> expensive and hard to organize. Kids feel like making a card and I go
in
> and tops left off markers and they are ruined.. supplies every where.
> I can't find my deodorant and it got taken to a sleep over and left
> behind, I have some fairly expensive make up and is also disappears.
> Kids bake something because I have just spent half hour cleaning
kitchen
> and looks like bomb went off.
> All of the above happens and this is not what bothers me so much- its
> the attitude I get when I mention it. Shrug of shoulders or "go buy
> a new one" which escalates.
>
> Here is my take on it. I have been a radical unschooling for almost 11
> years. I am going to be honest and say I don't think it is working
> for me anymore. I have written about my marriage jumping off the rails
> and I have been reflecting back on some of the things I would do
> differently.
> Maybe I have been "unschooling wrong" .
> I don't "make" my kids so chores and I don't worry about
> the state of the house It has always felt beneath me. As a result we
> have been living in CHAOS and I think it has undermined the fabric of
> our family. I am not looking for perfection or even a TIDY house. I
mean
> we are late for things because I can't find socks or my keys got put
> somewhere or my son doesn't know where his game boy is… etc.
> My husband feels crappy because he works hard all day to pay for our
hoe
> and comes home and there is jam on the walls.
> The "old" me would have been- hey they had fun smearing jam on
> the walls - whats the big deal- but it IS bothering me know. I don't
> know why the paradigm shift.
> Maybe its because as the kids get older I am seeing a total lack of
> regard for "stuff"… and it filters to not just there stuff but
> mys stuff and other people stuff if that makes sense.
>
> I have done my kids a disservice. I have let chaos win. Putting off
> things and procrastination has made everything an emergency . I have
> shown a lack of respect to my life and the"business of life" and
> they maybe are picking up on it?
> As part if getting our marriage back on track we have been dealing
with
> "crap". Al the crap that we have avoided because it wasn't
> fun. Like house repairs or taking care of a forgotten bill. In short
we
> are owning up and dealing with the consequences of our actions.
>
> Maybe the The kids have sort of been dragged along and there were
never
> boundaries and now there are. I have never believed in punishments but
I
> honestly have been re-thinking that concept. The other day when my
craft
> area was left a disaster I had her clean he mess up but also sweep and
> wash the floor . My girlfriend is also an unschooling and she is
trying
> to convince me that this wasn't a punishment but
> "consequences" - Just feels like semantics to me.
> It could also be that I never had stuff that my daughter thought was
> appealing and now she does. I did take here out and buy her own make
up-
> but mine still seems more appealing
> I feel like my kids take the easy road and short cuts to instant
> gratification and I have taught them this and not sure where to go
from
> here.
> This post is a but rambling and iut of a stream of consciousness thing
> going on… I apologize!
> I am going to talk with kids over the week about some of the change in
> our home- like the fact that life will be easier for us if there is
some
> "order" .
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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