Lori

Hi,

My name is Lori and I am a homeschooling Mom of two years to Christopher
10, Lily 8, Emma 5, and Matthew 2. I live in Connecticut and my husband
and I work opposite each other so we can be home with our children. I
work two 10 hour shifts each week and he is self employed and works on
the days I am off. When he does not have work I will pick up extra at
work.

We currently do an eclectic type of cirruculum with the kids. Math from
here, language from there..etc. I think they are learning from some of
what they are doing but not from everything they are doing. I guess I
feel some of what they are doing is a waste of time for them because
they are not learning from it.

In my core I believe unschooling is the best way to learn. I am just
afraid of the following and hoped some of the seasoned unschoolers out
there could give me some advice that would maybe ease my mind so we
could try unschooling. Ok here is my not all inclusive list of fears...

1. With four kids and working opposite each other, and money issues my
husband and I are a bit stressed to say the least. I am worried that
either of us will not have the time to foster what each of their
interests are as there are four of them and only one of us at a time and
we have no family support. When we are home there is so much to be done
that I feel to unschool effectively you need to have alot of extra time
to devote to your kids passions. Please don't get me wrong it is not
that we don't want to have the extra time the reality is that very often
there is just many other things to do ie, cooking, cleaning, laundry,
shopping, paying bills, bookwork for the business etc.

2. We have no extra money to buy resources for them to persue their
passions. There are many things they would like to do (places to go) or
buy and we just don't have the finances to do this for them. I just feel
like if we can't provide these things for them they will not be able to
learn the things they could if we were able to provide more for them.

3. What if they don't learn...there is no turning back...I can't get
those years back for them...what if they are disadvantaged for life. I
believe if they had the resources (see #2) they could learn but without
them I am not sure.

4. Can the state penilize you for unschooling. We live in Connecticut
for now...(thinking about relocating to Florida)...CT is very easy on
homeschooling but I still worry if it gets out that we unschool that we
could get in trouble.

So that is bascially it...time, money, big brother and once commited not
getting the years back if it doesn't work...those are my main
fears...Side note...I have anxiety issues so if these seem unrealistic
they may be..I tend to worry about EVERYTHING!!!

So I would love any personal stories, words of encouragement, helpful
hints or anything that may help me so I could do what I really want to
do in my heart. Unschooling makes sense to me, it feels right...I just
have to get past these fears and have some peace and then I think we
would be okay.

Sorry to babble... [:)]
Thanks,
Lori



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

DJ250

Hi,

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lori
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Help! I want to unschool but I am afraid...

Hi, Lori,
Well, I'll reply to #3: That's exactly the point, there is no second
chance at childhood!! The idea is that children will learn what they
need to learn WHEN they need to learn it and THEY know what they need.
It makes absolutely no sense to them (or to me!!) when they are
presented with arbitrary school work and subjects that have little to
nothing to do with daily life for them. Children (humans) are natural
explorers and want to fit in with the world around them. So, every
exploration should be valued! Doesn't matter if it's just "fluff" on TV
or looking through a microscope! THEY are getting something out of what
they are doing. How would you feel if your husband said to you "You
shouldn't be wasting your time reading that book! You should be
learning calculus instead. I want you to learn calculus and do these
problems by the end of the week." If you decide to pursue a degree in
engineering, calculus will certainly be valuable and you'll want to
learn it. If not, it's a chore and doesn't fit into your life!
I think where you're driving yourself nuts is that you expect their
explorations to look like school work. ( I've been there!) Some days it
may resemble that, some days not, esp. the younger they are. Children
play and that is what childhood should be about. Feel free to strew the
house with new things-a colorful rock on the kitchen table in the
morning, books from the library brought in the car for a trip to the
store, go on Netflix and pick out DVDs and pop them in and watch them,
etc. Pursue your own interests, as well! Show them that adults don't
just do work around the house (though I do enjoy a bit of housework :-))
but like to paint, read, take hikes, whatever. And join in on their fun,
too.
I guarantee that anything they are doing is not a waste of their time or
yours! As they grow older, you'll find some of their interests may
become more academically-oriented, as they grow out of playing with
Legos, dressing up, etc. and look to maybe going to college. Hey, my
41 y.o. friend still likes to hula hoop!! For now, let childhood be
happy and enjoyable, not a time for acculumating info from school
subjects. :-)
My .02,
~Melissa :-)



My name is Lori and I am a homeschooling Mom of two years to Christopher
10, Lily 8, Emma 5, and Matthew 2. I live in Connecticut and my husband
and I work opposite each other so we can be home with our children. I
work two 10 hour shifts each week and he is self employed and works on
the days I am off. When he does not have work I will pick up extra at
work.

We currently do an eclectic type of cirruculum with the kids. Math from
here, language from there..etc. I think they are learning from some of
what they are doing but not from everything they are doing. I guess I
feel some of what they are doing is a waste of time for them because
they are not learning from it.

In my core I believe unschooling is the best way to learn. I am just
afraid of the following and hoped some of the seasoned unschoolers out
there could give me some advice that would maybe ease my mind so we
could try unschooling. Ok here is my not all inclusive list of fears...

1. With four kids and working opposite each other, and money issues my
husband and I are a bit stressed to say the least. I am worried that
either of us will not have the time to foster what each of their
interests are as there are four of them and only one of us at a time and
we have no family support. When we are home there is so much to be done
that I feel to unschool effectively you need to have alot of extra time
to devote to your kids passions. Please don't get me wrong it is not
that we don't want to have the extra time the reality is that very often
there is just many other things to do ie, cooking, cleaning, laundry,
shopping, paying bills, bookwork for the business etc.

2. We have no extra money to buy resources for them to persue their
passions. There are many things they would like to do (places to go) or
buy and we just don't have the finances to do this for them. I just feel
like if we can't provide these things for them they will not be able to
learn the things they could if we were able to provide more for them.

3. What if they don't learn...there is no turning back...I can't get
those years back for them...what if they are disadvantaged for life. I
believe if they had the resources (see #2) they could learn but without
them I am not sure.

4. Can the state penilize you for unschooling. We live in Connecticut
for now...(thinking about relocating to Florida)...CT is very easy on
homeschooling but I still worry if it gets out that we unschool that we
could get in trouble.

So that is bascially it...time, money, big brother and once commited not
getting the years back if it doesn't work...those are my main
fears...Side note...I have anxiety issues so if these seem unrealistic
they may be..I tend to worry about EVERYTHING!!!

So I would love any personal stories, words of encouragement, helpful
hints or anything that may help me so I could do what I really want to
do in my heart. Unschooling makes sense to me, it feels right...I just
have to get past these fears and have some peace and then I think we
would be okay.

Sorry to babble... [:)]
Thanks,
Lori

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Faith Void

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:[email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf Of Lori
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:28 PM
To: [email protected] <unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Help! I want to unschool but I am afraid...

1. With four kids and working opposite each other, and money issues my
husband and I are a bit stressed to say the least. I am worried that
either of us will not have the time to foster what each of their
interests are as there are four of them and only one of us at a time and
we have no family support. When we are home there is so much to be done
that I feel to unschool effectively you need to have alot of extra time
to devote to your kids passions. Please don't get me wrong it is not
that we don't want to have the extra time the reality is that very often
there is just many other things to do ie, cooking, cleaning, laundry,
shopping, paying bills, bookwork for the business etc.

***Time is a hot commodity for most people :-) You make time for your
priorities. Once you kick the books you will have all that time you use to
devote to book study to follow your family's bliss. I am sure that you will
eventually work it out. It might be hard at first, you may feel pressed to
*DO* a lot. Take it easy, relax, allow yourself and your kids to de-school a
bit. You will find your groove. I am a list maker so I have lists, lol. I
have my daily chore list (for me not my kids) of the household stuff I would
like to tackle to maintain the house adequately. My standards may not be
your standards. My standards aren't much as I would rather play with the
kids or go somewhere than scrub a bunch so I really just maintain and then
every once in a while do a good clean. I blogged about how I clean online
(see bottom of email for link). Having a monthly calendar helps us too. We
fill out our calendar so we don't over book. We have a few things we
"always" do and then work around them to fill in the rest. We sometimes
schedule in time to relax. We also have a date night for individuals (ie
Mama and dd12 or papa and ds6, etc) that happen weekly for some on on one
time. It isn't a lot but it works for us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. We have no extra money to buy resources for them to persue their
passions. There are many things they would like to do (places to go) or
buy and we just don't have the finances to do this for them. I just feel
like if we can't provide these things for them they will not be able to
learn the things they could if we were able to provide more for them.

***Well is that absolutely true? You have no money at all for passions? If
it is than maybe it won't work right now. But I think you might be surprised
if you dig a little deeper. First off learning is free. It doesn'y have to
cost a lot. You likely already buy your kids toys/games/books. You bought
your ciruicullum books. You maybe be able to wrangle your finances a liitle
more.
We cut things that are less important abd put money towards things that we
find important. Like we don't buy clothes, except socks and skivvies. I get
them free from a clothing free store or craigslist or freecycle.
Occaisionally we will buy clothes at a yardsale but only if it is special
like a pokemon shirt or happy bunny shirts. Specific or nice clothes isn'y
important. However, going to unschooling gatherings are major priority. We
just spent about 500 bucks on a week at the water park. It was worth every
penny and we surely woulkd have been happier with nicer clothes.
We also don't spend a lot on books. We use to not spend any but now my dd12
needs certain books when they first come out :-) It feeds her passion.Other
boos we get off craigslist, freecycle, the free book thing (in Baltimore
MD), paperbackswap.com, ebay, half.com or the library.
Toys are free or cheap too. Added to the other places we score at thrift
stores or yard sales as well. My kids ask for something I try to find it,
free or cheap. If I can't it goes on our vision board and we get it when we
can afford it. Feed the passions.
My kids aren't doing any formal classes right now. We have and they can be
the right fit for a passion but not the only way to feed their souls. There
are a few animal care classes my dd could take but she volunteers at a cat
rescue and gets double the benefits for free. My kids do youth combat
through SCA and that is free and their favorite activity! We get out a lot
to parks (free) and take use of free museum days or we buy passes and see a
museum a lot for a while and move on. Since we travel our museum passes
really are worth it. We have a science center pass that allows us to enter
for one year 5 museums within a 1.5 hour drive plus countless others around
the country. For less than 100 bucks a year!
We do a working share with CSA and get food (veggies) in exchange for our
service. It is fun and good exercise (no gym needed). We also get loads of
nutrious food. There are also discount food shopping places. I shop around
to food shopping. I make sure I am getting the best prices on what we eat. I
spend about 150 on a family of 5 (3 adults sized eaters and 2 kids) per
week. I am looking to go lower when we start the CSA for the summer. I
noticed a huge savings when we stopped eating as entertainment. we still
entertain ourselves with special meals but we spend more energy making them
from scratch and really enjoying them. We rarely do prepackaged anymore. we
also don't eat out. We realized that with a toddler and a high sensative
child it just wasn't fun. Perhaps in a few years :-) My oldest loves to
experienment with different cultural foods so we make sure she hows an
outlet (my mother and her go out once a month or so).
Today my kids are biking (it is sooooo warm) and down at our local
playground. I am not there because the baby is asleep in my arms. But those
things are free. We have a bunch of cool stuff at our house as well, a
trampoline, a wii, a club house, a play room, an art/projects room. There is
a lot of to do just hanging around our house. We have a buhnch of cool books
with ideas in them to browse in case they run out...I don't think they have
cracked them much as they have thier own ideas. Much of what we have at our
house was free or hella cheap. I get all of ourstuff (furniture, clothes,
etc) from freecycle, friends, craigslist, "sidewalk" scores, etc. I have a
mental list and a physical list (personal vision boards) of all the stuff my
people like.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. What if they don't learn...there is no turning back...I can't get
those years back for them...what if they are disadvantaged for life. I
believe if they had the resources (see #2) they could learn but without
them I am not sure.

***Exactly, each second is precious. Don't waste it doing things that don't
feed you soul, your passions, create joy not resentment. if it doens't work
out (I can't even imagine how/why) Catching up with school aged peers is
really easy. Kids learn what they need to know. It is not what you know but
that you have the desire to learn that is really important.

I think you are imagining that they will unschool themselves and still keep
the world divided into school subjects. They won't and that ok, no it is
beet than ok it is good. The world outside of school isn't broken into
subjects. We don't all know the same things abotu the same things. That is
good. There is no reason for your child/ren to know what other kids her/his
age know.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Can the state penilize you for unschooling. We live in Connecticut
for now...(thinking about relocating to Florida)...CT is very easy on
homeschooling but I still worry if it gets out that we unschool that we
could get in trouble.

***I don't know that CT laws are but unschooling is the same legally as any
other kind of "homeschooling". You don't have to specify that you are
unschooling as opposed to schooling at home. You just have to figure out how
to comply withthe laws. It is typically quite easy.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unschooling makes sense to me, it feels right...I just
have to get past these fears and have some peace and then I think we
would be okay.

***Let go off you fears. The future will happen whether we worry about it or
not.

Faith

--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Lori" <LMBWebmail@...>
wrote:
>> 1. With four kids and working opposite each other, and money
issues my
> husband and I are a bit stressed to say the least. I am worried that
> either of us will not have the time to foster what each of their
> interests are as there are four of them and only one of us at a
time and
> we have no family support. When we are home there is so much to be
done
> that I feel to unschool effectively you need to have alot of extra
time
> to devote to your kids passions

Its not so much a matter of "extra" time as making the effort to
connect with all your kids every day. How you do that is going to be
really different across ages and personalities, though. Some of it
will be one-on-one - working on a project together, watching a movie
together, cooking together... but some of that will also happen in
the natural course of interacting as a family. When you make an
effort to stay connected with your kids you'll find you have a good
sense of what their interests and passions are - that will let you
keep an eye open for ideas along the way. I'm not saying its a
passive process, but it doesn't have to be some huge "special" effort
of time and energy, either.

> 2. We have no extra money to buy resources for them to persue their
> passions. There are many things they would like to do (places to
go) or
> buy and we just don't have the finances to do this for them.

This is something we struggle with, too. It takes some creativity to
find ways for our kids to persue their interests that we can afford.
Networking with others is one of our best resources - single adults,
childless couples, families with kids in school and at home, anyone
at all can turn out to be a resource. Ask others what they do for
fun! That can be enough, at times, to open a door or just spark a new
idea.

What are some of your kids' interests? Maybe someone right here on
this board can help you brainstorm!

> 3. What if they don't learn...there is no turning back...I can't get
> those years back for them...

Don't learn what? That sounds snarky, but its meant seriously -
exactly what do they need to learn? How do you know?

There are times when I feel horribly disadvantaged by my education...
I was such a good student that it was easy for parents and teachers
alike to ignore my passions and talents in favor of my academic
skills. Sometimes I feel like I learned all the wrong things! But
from an academic standpoint, they were all the "right" things for "a
successful future".

It wasn't until I was in my twenties that I learned the things I
*really* needed all along - what and how I learn best, and how to
communicate effectively. My kids aren't having to wait that long. By
persuing their passions, they are learning what and how they learn
best Right Now. By living in the real world every day they are
learning important communication skills.

> 4. Can the state penilize you for unschooling.

Unschooling is a kind of homeschooling and therefore legal. Some
states require more documentation than others to show kids
are "learning" in ways that the state understands, but its still
possible to unschool and find ways to appease the state - because
learning is going on all the time. Check for local unschooling groups
online - other unschoolers in your state will be the best source of
specific advice.

---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)

Deanne Liner

Lori,

I myself am new to homeschooling/unschooling..we follow no curriculum at all and my son is the happiest he has ever been I dare to say! :) We are for sure more $ broke than most as I live on a disability pension from the VA. I could get food stamps but as long as I have my 4 horses I can not justify the govt buying my food! LOL So do not let $ be a deterrent...I signed up with several local Homeschool Yahoo groups and take my son on field trips with them, go to the parties they have (Today was a Valentine Party) and play dates so my son is having fun for very little money and learning. I also get free tutoring at a local State University for my son in Speech and Reading which I count as a school day as in a real school he would not get an hour one on one with an instructor. I have him signed up on a Yahoo Homeschool Penpal group and he has gotten 5 penpals from around the USA..He writes them back and forth and learns to WRITE and geography as he looks up
where they live on a map etc. It is all learning, just in simple ways that he enjoys!   Also have him in a youth group AWANAS at a local church where he has to complete a workbook. I can not get him to do work in a workbook for anything! He hates them..but is so happy to do it at church, all learning experiences!

Just enjoy them enjoying life and they will learn as you read on here. My son's passion is to do manly things..he is 8..He has been helping my neighor a carpenter put up fencing here and building things..he loves that and can measure and do math that has to do with roofing, all due to him going to work with my neighbor! He is learning, all be it not what a typical schooled  8 yr old learns, but what interests him.

 Really check out FL before you move there. They pay way less than most states and it is getting bad for gangs etc..I am from Orlando..my older son goes to college there and my parents and siblings live in Central FL. (Oveido, Winter Haven, Winter Park) It is getting rough there with a murder every day or so in Orlando! It is very much turning into New York... Just do your research and line up a job first as the pay is WAY low compared to the North. Just a heads up..My older son went to Winter Park High school in Winter Park FL and told me of the horrors of the gangs even in that school which was SUPPOSED to be one of the better ones...Winter Park is a NICE area...so just do your research before you move.

Do not let $ stress you out...You can survive on alot less than you know! I am living proof.. I used to have the #1 Middle Eastern Restaurant in Central FL and lived very well..now I feel I live very well but am seriously poor on the $ scales you read about! I have my horses etc and we do just fine, lean living is not that bad so do not let $ scare you. You will be surprised at how you adapt! This year I am planting a garden, raising my chicken eggs etc.I have 35 acres..LOL Good luck to you and do what you think is correct for unschooling..read read read and you will feel better about it like I did! :) Pam

--- On Tue, 2/10/09, Lori <LMBWebmail@...> wrote:

From: Lori <LMBWebmail@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Help! I want to unschool but I am afraid...
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 3:27 PM














Hi,



My name is Lori and I am a homeschooling Mom of two years to Christopher

10, Lily 8, Emma 5, and Matthew 2. I live in Connecticut and my husband

and I work opposite each other so we can be home with our children. I

work two 10 hour shifts each week and he is self employed and works on

the days I am off. When he does not have work I will pick up extra at

work.



We currently do an eclectic type of cirruculum with the kids. Math from

here, language from there..etc. I think they are learning from some of

what they are doing but not from everything they are doing. I guess I

feel some of what they are doing is a waste of time for them because

they are not learning from it.



In my core I believe unschooling is the best way to learn. I am just

afraid of the following and hoped some of the seasoned unschoolers out

there could give me some advice that would maybe ease my mind so we

could try unschooling. Ok here is my not all inclusive list of fears...



1. With four kids and working opposite each other, and money issues my

husband and I are a bit stressed to say the least. I am worried that

either of us will not have the time to foster what each of their

interests are as there are four of them and only one of us at a time and

we have no family support. When we are home there is so much to be done

that I feel to unschool effectively you need to have alot of extra time

to devote to your kids passions. Please don't get me wrong it is not

that we don't want to have the extra time the reality is that very often

there is just many other things to do ie, cooking, cleaning, laundry,

shopping, paying bills, bookwork for the business etc.



2. We have no extra money to buy resources for them to persue their

passions. There are many things they would like to do (places to go) or

buy and we just don't have the finances to do this for them. I just feel

like if we can't provide these things for them they will not be able to

learn the things they could if we were able to provide more for them.



3. What if they don't learn...there is no turning back...I can't get

those years back for them...what if they are disadvantaged for life. I

believe if they had the resources (see #2) they could learn but without

them I am not sure.



4. Can the state penilize you for unschooling. We live in Connecticut

for now...(thinking about relocating to Florida)...CT is very easy on

homeschooling but I still worry if it gets out that we unschool that we

could get in trouble.



So that is bascially it...time, money, big brother and once commited not

getting the years back if it doesn't work...those are my main

fears...Side note...I have anxiety issues so if these seem unrealistic

they may be..I tend to worry about EVERYTHING!! !



So I would love any personal stories, words of encouragement, helpful

hints or anything that may help me so I could do what I really want to

do in my heart. Unschooling makes sense to me, it feels right...I just

have to get past these fears and have some peace and then I think we

would be okay.



Sorry to babble... [:)]

Thanks,

Lori



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

NO you can't be penalized - as far as the state goes, you are "homeschooling" and in CT, you have no paperwork to turn in to the state. HOW you "homeschool" is irrelevant to them. There are TONS of unschoolers in CT simply because it is sooooo easy - no tests, no portfolios, no Notice of Intent required. There's a whole yahoo group of unschoolers even (TribeUSCT - Tribe of Unschoolers in CT). We've been unschooling in CT since DS was 18 months old (That's when we moved back up here again after DH graduated college). He's now 10 ½.

Also, you don't need to "get back" years - what someone needs to know/learn can be learned when they need it. You don't need to spend 12 years on math - you can learn all of it from scratch (and few people are ever really at "scratch") in a year, maybe less, if you WANT to and NEED to in order to reach your own goals.

Re-evaluate what you consider "Resources" - text books, museums, expensive curricula are NOT necessary. Dried beans, paper clips, the Internet (which I KNOW you have LOL), media of all sorts (Libraries are FREE) - those are all resources. So is the next door neighbor and a whole host of homeschooling and unschooling families around the state. Don't forget things like Freecycle, the library, the Internet, bartering, etc as ways to access resources as well. For instance, someone on the CT-CHEER (CT Home Educators East of the River) Yahoo group posted that she was looking for a toy that she couldn't remember the name of but gave a description. Someone else said "Oh, that's called Gears Gears Gears..." At which point, I said "Hey, we've got that and it's in the pile of stuff we're getting rid of - do you want it?" This family got a full set, new to them, gently used, for the cost of meeting us halfway to pick it up.

Set priorities - yeah, keeping the bookwork for a business is important but can it be "maintained" in 30 minutes while the kids are watching a movie or otherwise occupied (maybe when the littlest ones are asleep)? Cooking and cleaning can be done such that the kids can be involved (not forcibly but as in "hey I'm going to be folding laundry, anyone want to watch a movie with me while I work?" ) Clean in 15 minute increments in between other things. Cook once a week and reheat the rest of the week. For instance, instead of cooking chicken two nights (at the 30 minutes or so that takes each time), cook a dozen chicken breasts at once then stash 2/3 of them. Voila, 5 minutes to heat up the chicken later on in the week and you've got the makings for a stir fry. For that matter, how do you find the time to sit-down textbook school 4 kids AND do all this other stuff? Unschooling is more AND less time consuming than that stuff. Use the time you currently are setting aside for the sit down work (lesson planning, correcting work, doing lessons, etc). It might well be worthwhile to consider things like Peapod grocery delivery - you place the order online, set the delivery time window (usually a 2 hour window like 8 am - 10 am), they bring it right in to the kitchen table, you can use coupons and other discounts and pay by cash or check or credit card as you choose (you're not limited as to how to pay so you can write a check just as if you were at the store). The delivery charge compared to the value of your time may be worth it.

Set financial priorities as well (not that that is news to you) - take the textbook money that you are already spending and put it toward whatever stuff they WANT to do. Memberships to things like the aquarium, children's museum, etc are GREAT holiday gifts from family (makes them feel like they're doing something "educational" for the kids and that's a Good Thing LOL). Magazine subscriptions too are a great gift, can be targeted to individual interests, include "reading" and other "educational" stuff like that - aunties and grandmas can feel good that they're "helping".

Deb R


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rebecca de

dear I'm afraid,

   you are not alone on this feeling.  but follow your instinct.  I was  afraid and I let my fears  stream out -- so it ended up with my son going back to kindergarten this year.  But now were more than 1/2 way through the year and he's asking to stay home more, I can see his enthusiasm leaving at school, and he's asking to home school again.  So i have learned to stand my ground no matter what all the fears are--- it's something new , it's different,  however if it feels right deep down within the gut -- its right for you and your kids.  Hope this helps some just wanted to encourage.  Have a blessed day. 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lori

Hi,

I just want to thank everyone who responded with compassion, great
ideas and support. My husband is all for this except he thinks they
should do times tables..lol..I am sure you have heard that before. I
am glad to hear that others do this without a lot of money!

I think CT is a really good state for homeschooling as there does not
seem to be the regualtions in other states. Although it is a very
expensive state to live in. With that said my husband really wants to
move to Florida. I know a couple of you from Florida seem to think
that the job situation down there is not the greatest. (and the gangs
didn't thrill me either!) I am a nurse and my husband is a painter
(house, etc...not canvas). I know the cost of living maybe less down
there but I think the pay is considerably less. Any thoughts on this
from the Floridians? Do you know what nurses or painters make and if
there are even jobs for either one available. I don't want to be the
main bread winner as I want to be home with the kids as much as
possible.

Hubby and I are going to talk again today and try to make a decision
about unschooling. If do something like give it a try, any
suggestions on how long is a reasonable length of time to fairly try
it...I don't want to not give it enough time as I think that may be
unfair as I have read about deschooling and I am assuming this
process is different for each individual. Does six months sound like
a fair amount of time to try it out? I would like your opinions.

Thanks again for all of you help. It really is appreciated!
Lori



--- In [email protected], rebecca de
<rebeccadehate@...> wrote:
>
> dear I'm afraid,
>
>    you are not alone on this feeling.  but follow your instinct.  I
was  afraid and I let my fears  stream out -- so it ended up with my
son going back to kindergarten this year.  But now were more than 1/2
way through the year and he's asking to stay home more, I can see his
enthusiasm leaving at school, and he's asking to home school again. 
So i have learned to stand my ground no matter what all the fears are-
-- it's something new , it's different,  however if it feels right
deep down within the gut -- its right for you and your kids.  Hope
this helps some just wanted to encourage.  Have a blessed day. 
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Kelly Lovejoy

If you have "start and end" dates, you will have expectations by the end date---which will probably not be met.



The "rule of thumb" in deschooling is one month per year your child has been in school. But *each time* you or your husband "backslide" and ask about the multiplication tables <g> or some other "schooly" issue, you need to go back to day ONE in your counting. It will probably take you and your husband longer to deschool than your children (one month per year *you* were schooled); so you will, more than likely, backslide more than a few times in six months.




So, no. I don't think that's a reasonable amount of time. Maybe *after* deschooling. <g>




What it boils down to is this: Do you believe children are natural learners? Do you trust that they will learn what they need to learn when they need it? Do you know there's no time table of learning?




If you DO, why put a limit on it? 



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." ~Ghandi


-----Original Message-----
From: Lori <LMBWebmail@...>


Hubby and I are going to talk again today and try to make a decision
about unschooling. If do something like give it a try, any
suggestions on how long is a reasonable length of time to fairly try
it...I don't want to not give it enough time as I think that may be
unfair as I have read about deschooling and I am assuming this
process is different for each20individual. Does six months sound like
a fair amount of time to try it out? I would like your opinions.











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Gray

Oh gosh, Kelly is right!

For us it took TWO years to deschool my son. Part of that was due to
the fact that he is very sensitive and school was very stressful for
him. We threw ourselves headlong into it, and it still took that much
time, so I can't imagine what time frame we would have been looking
at if we had restarted with backslides. It's very much the same with
Breanna, although she has special needs and had been in school full
time since she was three.

Now the girls, they were deschooled in a matter of two months, but
they only spent two years and one year, respectively. They had grown
up being in a school building though, due to my intense involvement,
so it was very hard for them to lose what they perceived as a very
important daily ritual. My oldest two even did summer school! So from
birth on, the girls had been brought up to the building, spent hours
in the library or office playing, chatting, etc.


Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com



On Feb 14, 2009, at 8:08 AM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:

> If you have "start and end" dates, you will have expectations by
> the end date---which will probably not be met.
>
> The "rule of thumb" in deschooling is one month per year your child
> has been in school. But *each time* you or your husband "backslide"
> and ask about the multiplication tables <g> or some other "schooly"
> issue, you need to go back to day ONE in your counting. It will
> probably take you and your husband longer to deschool than your
> children (one month per year *you* were schooled); so you will,
> more than likely, backslide more than a few times in six months.
>
> So, no. I don't think that's a reasonable amount of time. Maybe
> *after* deschooling. <g>
>
> What it boils down to is this: Do you believe children are natural
> learners? Do you trust that they will learn what they need to learn
> when they need it? Do you know there's no time table of learning?
>
> If you DO, why put a limit on it?
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
>
> "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live
> forever." ~Ghandi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lori <LMBWebmail@...>
>
> Hubby and I are going to talk again today and try to make a decision
> about unschooling. If do something like give it a try, any
> suggestions on how long is a reasonable length of time to fairly try
> it...I don't want to not give it enough time as I think that may be
> unfair as I have read about deschooling and I am assuming this
> process is different for each20individual. Does six months sound like
> a fair amount of time to try it out? I would like your opinions.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Lori" <LMBWebmail@...>
wrote:
> I just want to thank everyone who responded with compassion, great
> ideas and support. My husband is all for this except he thinks they
> should do times tables..lol..I am sure you have heard that before.

It sounds like he's thinking they won't ever have any interest in
learning about multiplication on their own. The younger children
almost certainly will if they aren't ever pushed to learn it - its
useful, after all, and kids are naturally motivated to learn things
that are useful and helpful. Its also fun for many many children to
play with numbers and the patterns they form.

If the older kids have been pushed to learn some "math" they may be
less enthusiastic for awhile - but even that will fade with some
deschooling. My 15yo hated anything that seemed "schoolish" for a
long time after he left school, but nowadays he does a good bit with
numbers. He does some woodworking, metalworking and working for
cash ;) so various kinds of mathematics have become practical to him.

Something to keep in mind with math is that the sequence its
generally taught - in schools and most curricula - isn't necessarily
the sequence in which children naturally become interested in and
learn those concepts. An example that's fresh in my mind, from
chatting with another mom yesterday, is that its not necessary to
learn basic addition and subtraction before multiplication and/or
division.

> Hubby and I are going to talk again today and try to make a
decision
> about unschooling. If do something like give it a try, any
> suggestions on how long is a reasonable length of time to fairly
try
> it...I don't want to not give it enough time as I think that may be
> unfair as I have read about deschooling and I am assuming this
> process is different for each individual. Does six months sound
like
> a fair amount of time to try it out?

Six months from now takes you to the start of the next "school year".
That's setting yourself up in the worst possible way - there's a
delicate transition that will happen the first time you cross that
magic line in your expectations between "summer vacation" and "school
time". Its not uncommon to feel a little panicky right around then,
especially since mom and dad will still be deschooling.

Give it all the next "school year" at least. Spend the first six
months connecting more deeply with the kids, have fun together! And
at the same time, do more reading about unschooling and, if you like
that sort of thing, about learning and cognition in general. If you
need goals, set some for yourself - read about different
communication styles or Love Languages, or ways to facilitate problem
solving.

If you feel a need to "keep track" in some way (or maybe dh does)
create a portfolio of some kind - a blog, perhaps, or a photo album
or a journal - include pictures and stories from the day, but don't
put any emphasis on "learning". Emphasize "this was fun" and "this is
how we found a solution together" and "this is how I'm becoming a
kinder parent." Encourage dh to do the same, so you can connect
better with each other about your days and experiences with the kids,
especially if you're not often home at the same times.

Think and talk about your core values/ guiding principles. Work on
living by those principles - not "applying" them to the kids, but as
a guide for how you, personally make decisions.

---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

<<<<Hubby and I are going to talk again today and try to make a decision
about unschooling. If do something like give it a try, any
suggestions on how long is a reasonable length of time to fairly try
it...I don't want to not give it enough time as I think that may be
unfair as I have read about deschooling and I am assuming this
process is different for each individual. Does six months sound like
a fair amount of time to try it out? I would like your opinions.>>>>>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda


 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Gray

That's my favorite yoda quote Alex!!!
I do resist the urge to quote it to my padawan learners...it's
definitely a quote for the parents!
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com



On Feb 14, 2009, at 10:40 AM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
>
>
> Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda
>
>
> Alex Polikowsky
> http://polykow.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heather & Markus Schleidt

Since you all were talking about math, my 8 yo has actually asked for a math program so that he can understand math better. He naturally leans that way, but just because we unschool doesn't mean we can't use traditional curriculum when it is child-directed. I went on the internet and evaluated several options and talked (a little - he's 8 remember) about what they entail. Now, we use RightStart Mathematics and he LOVES it. It is very untraditional, uses an abacus and word pictures, and he asks to do it at least 3 times a week. Obviously, this costs money and isn't in everyone's budget, but it is the only "curriculum" thing that we use and it is by his choice. If no other child shows interest we will sell it on eBay or something because it has a high value.
On another note, we have never pushed math and he is naturally trying to work things out in his head and on a calculator. Because we don't believe in pushing them in a direction, even though everyone around us disagrees, my 5 yo has now become interested in math. He came to me last week and informed me that 3+2=5 and so does 4+1. We talked about math for about 10 minutes and did different word problems that he was enjoying but after 10 minutes his interest faded, so we stopped. Now, about every day, he asks one or two math related questions and is loving it. I know if he were in the school he would be sick of it by now. Memorizing math facts is one of the "worst" ways to learn math and only encourages those that understand numbers and memorize well. Most kids do not function that way.

This is probably, in my opinion, the area that we get the most grief from non-unschoolers about. They say, "How are they going to learn their math facts?" I kindly point out that there are other ways to learn math that apply to life and we capitalize on these when the kids are interested.

Heather in Ohio




To: [email protected]: meredith@...: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:34:25 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re:Help! I want to unschool but I am afraid...



--- In [email protected], "Lori" <LMBWebmail@...> wrote:> I just want to thank everyone who responded with compassion, great > ideas and support. My husband is all for this except he thinks they > should do times tables..lol..I am sure you have heard that before. It sounds like he's thinking they won't ever have any interest in learning about multiplication on their own. The younger children almost certainly will if they aren't ever pushed to learn it - its useful, after all, and kids are naturally motivated to learn things that are useful and helpful. Its also fun for many many children to play with numbers and the patterns they form. If the older kids have been pushed to learn some "math" they may be less enthusiastic for awhile - but even that will fade with some deschooling. My 15yo hated anything that seemed "schoolish" for a long time after he left school, but nowadays he does a good bit with numbers. He does some woodworking, metalworking and working for cash ;) so various kinds of mathematics have become practical to him.Something to keep in mind with math is that the sequence its generally taught - in schools and most curricula - isn't necessarily the sequence in which children naturally become interested in and learn those concepts. An example that's fresh in my mind, from chatting with another mom yesterday, is that its not necessary to learn basic addition and subtraction before multiplication and/or division. > Hubby and I are going to talk again today and try to make a decision > about unschooling. If do something like give it a try, any > suggestions on how long is a reasonable length of time to fairly try > it...I don't want to not give it enough time as I think that may be > unfair as I have read about deschooling and I am assuming this > process is different for each individual. Does six months sound like > a fair amount of time to try it out?Six months from now takes you to the start of the next "school year". That's setting yourself up in the worst possible way - there's a delicate transition that will happen the first time you cross that magic line in your expectations between "summer vacation" and "school time". Its not uncommon to feel a little panicky right around then, especially since mom and dad will still be deschooling. Give it all the next "school year" at least. Spend the first six months connecting more deeply with the kids, have fun together! And at the same time, do more reading about unschooling and, if you like that sort of thing, about learning and cognition in general. If you need goals, set some for yourself - read about different communication styles or Love Languages, or ways to facilitate problem solving. If you feel a need to "keep track" in some way (or maybe dh does) create a portfolio of some kind - a blog, perhaps, or a photo album or a journal - include pictures and stories from the day, but don't put any emphasis on "learning". Emphasize "this was fun" and "this is how we found a solution together" and "this is how I'm becoming a kinder parent." Encourage dh to do the same, so you can connect better with each other about your days and experiences with the kids, especially if you're not often home at the same times.Think and talk about your core values/ guiding principles. Work on living by those principles - not "applying" them to the kids, but as a guide for how you, personally make decisions. ---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)






_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live�: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Three Mommies

We live in Connecticut as well and unschool our two boys. I thought it might
be helpful to talk to other unschoolers here, so I'm forwarding this note we
sent to folks about a meeting this Monday and the plans we're making for an
unschoolers play/get-together/whatever we want to do group.

I'd have answered this sooner, but I just got to this thread.

Hope to see you Monday.

Peace,
Jean Elizabeth

http://3mommies.blogspot.com

_________________________________________________
Hi!

We have been talking with a number of people about getting a play group
together. We thought we would start with twice a month. We will be at the
meeting on Monday and would love to talk there with calendars in hand to
figure out some good dates.

Info about Monday's meeting again:

Please join us next Monday, February 16, at 7 pm at the Borders Book
Store in Norwalk (on Rte. 7 - just before the border to Wilton) for a
friendly and very informal get-together.

There are often children there: reading or looking at books, playing
board games, etc. Send the word if you plan to bring yours along and
would like to invite others or at least find out if others will be
there.

We welcome all unschoolers and anyone who is just curious and/or wants
to talk about unschooling or various other life subjects.

Email me with any questions (ldoig@... <ldoig%40snet.net>).

--------------------------------------------------------------

From the people I have talked to it sounds like Monday or Fridays are best.
We have offered our house(we live in New Haven), it is big with a big yard
when the weather is nice. We are looking into other places. If you can't
make it email me some good days before Monday.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meridith Richardson

My daughter saw this and asked to ask how there are three mommies.  I didn't want to assume anything so we are asking, if that is ok :)
Meridith and Faith


--- On Sat, 2/14/09, Three Mommies <3mommies@...> wrote:

From: Three Mommies <3mommies@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Help! I want to unschool but I am afraid...
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 2:13 PM






We live in Connecticut as well and unschool our two boys. I thought it might
be helpful to talk to other unschoolers here, so I'm forwarding this note we
sent to folks about a meeting this Monday and the plans we're making for an
unschoolers play/get-together/ whatever we want to do group.

I'd have answered this sooner, but I just got to this thread.

Hope to see you Monday.

Peace,
Jean Elizabeth

http://3mommies. blogspot. com

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Hi!

We have been talking with a number of people about getting a play group
together. We thought we would start with twice a month. We will be at the
meeting on Monday and would love to talk there with calendars in hand to
figure out some good dates.

Info about Monday's meeting again:

Please join us next Monday, February 16, at 7 pm at the Borders Book
Store in Norwalk (on Rte. 7 - just before the border to Wilton) for a
friendly and very informal get-together.

There are often children there: reading or looking at books, playing
board games, etc. Send the word if you plan to bring yours along and
would like to invite others or at least find out if others will be
there.

We welcome all unschoolers and anyone who is just curious and/or wants
to talk about unschooling or various other life subjects.

Email me with any questions (ldoig@... <ldoig%40snet. net>).

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

From the people I have talked to it sounds like Monday or Fridays are best.
We have offered our house(we live in New Haven), it is big with a big yard
when the weather is nice. We are looking into other places. If you can't
make it email me some good days before Monday.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Laura

Hi Lori,

I grew up in Hartford, Connecticut and also Granby, but moved to Miami
twelve years ago and never looked back (but that was worked for me
:)). It's very unschooling/homeschooling friendly here. But I'd like
to ask what your reasons are for moving other than jobs (actually I'd
love to know what type of work you're looking for sorry if I missed it
in the original post). My husband is French and moved here for the
same reasons I did. We moved away for a year to Argentina and then a
couple of other places before returning to Florida. We were super
happy to back in Miami because we really missed the tropical weather,
palm trees, and the international flavor since our daughter is being
raised trilingually. So I'm not sure where in Florida you're thinking
of moving to but I was wondering if it was the weather or jobs or some
other reason.

There are a lot of homeschool groups all over Florida, unschoolers are
often part of the groups as well. We have a great group in Miami with
a mix of home and unschoolers and also one in Fort Lauderdale.
If I can help you with anything please let me know :)

Laura

--- In [email protected], "Lori" <LMBWebmail@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to thank everyone who responded with compassion, great
> ideas and support. My husband is all for this except he thinks they
> should do times tables..lol..I am sure you have heard that before. I
> am glad to hear that others do this without a lot of money!
>
> I think CT is a really good state for homeschooling as there does not
> seem to be the regualtions in other states. Although it is a very
> expensive state to live in. With that said my husband really wants to
> move to Florida. I know a couple of you from Florida seem to think
> that the job situation down there is not the greatest. (and the gangs
> didn't thrill me either!) I am a nurse and my husband is a painter
> (house, etc...not canvas). I know the cost of living maybe less down
> there but I think the pay is considerably less. Any thoughts on this
> from the Floridians? Do you know what nurses or painters make and if
> there are even jobs for either one available. I don't want to be the
> main bread winner as I want to be home with the kids as much as
> possible.
>
> Hubby and I are going to talk again today and try to make a decision
> about unschooling. If do something like give it a try, any
> suggestions on how long is a reasonable length of time to fairly try
> it...I don't want to not give it enough time as I think that may be
> unfair as I have read about deschooling and I am assuming this
> process is different for each individual. Does six months sound like
> a fair amount of time to try it out? I would like your opinions.
>
> Thanks again for all of you help. It really is appreciated!
> Lori
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], rebecca de
> <rebeccadehate@> wrote:
> >
> > dear I'm afraid,
> >
> >    you are not alone on this feeling.  but follow your instinct.  I
> was  afraid and I let my fears  stream out -- so it ended up with my
> son going back to kindergarten this year.  But now were more than 1/2
> way through the year and he's asking to stay home more, I can see his
> enthusiasm leaving at school, and he's asking to home school again. 
> So i have learned to stand my ground no matter what all the fears are-
> -- it's something new , it's different,  however if it feels right
> deep down within the gut -- its right for you and your kids.  Hope
> this helps some just wanted to encourage.  Have a blessed day. 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[email protected]

Nursing is always in demand here in FL. The construction industry is doing horribly now.

My neighbor, an emergency room nurse, starts her new job at a local hospital next week, although they did negotiate her salary down.

My DH is a tile/stone/marble installer and is reasonably busy in his high-end niche of the market but many in his line have gone out of business and other trades are hurting for work. His latest story was of the middle-aged guy standing outside the Home Depot with a "Labor for Hire" sign.

Not to scare you off too much because things will change but the timing could be better.

OTOH, you can probably get a house for cheap! :) And there are many houses for rent while you decide where you want to live.

Nance




I think CT is a really good state for homeschooling as there does not
seem to be the regualtions in other states. Although it is a very
expensive state to live in. With that said my husband really wants to
move to Florida. I know a couple of you from Florida seem to think
that the job situation down there is not the greatest. (and the gangs
didn't thrill me either!) I am a nurse and my husband is a painter
(house, etc...not canvas). I know the cost of living maybe less down
there but I think the pay is considerably less. Any thoughts on this
from the Floridians? Do you know what nurses or painters make and if
there are even jobs for either one available. I don't want to be the
main bread winner as I want to be home with the kids as much as
possible.


--
Iraq Coalition Casualty Count
http://icasualties.org/oif/default.aspx


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lori

Laura and Nance,

Thanks for the info. Here is the whole story on Florida although it
may be more info than you want..lol

We live in CT and my husband was born and raised here...my family
moved alot but we spent about 12 of my 18 years in CT...and Tom and I
have spent 10 more here...so we both know CT very well...however he
went to FL alot growing up to his grandmother's house in Hallandale
and we both lived in Fort Lauderdale for about eight months and Boca
another month.

CT is very expensive and the taxes are very high...at least it seems
that way to us...although we may be wrong...
Mortgage including taxes which are $6000/yr and homeowners which is
$1100/yr but we have a cottage too on the property which is part of
the reason our house is so hard to sell..is $2500/mo for a four
bedroom expanded cape...like I said we also have a cottage which was
falling apart when we bought the house so it doesn't really factor
into the mortgage as it was a reason people would not want to have
bought the house...not a selling point...:o)

Car insurance is about $1800/yr two cars 2004 Honda Pilot and 2005
Scion XB

Electric is around $150-200/mo depending on the time of year..we do
not use our AC because it costs so much

Oil right now is $2/gal and we average $300/mo Nov-April at these
prices at the end of the summer the prices were $4.50/gal We keep our
house at 65 degrees and we are freezing...

I think food is expensive milk is $4/gal at the regular grocery store
Bread ~$2/loaf

Our sales tax is 6% but not on food or clothes up to $50

We also have state income tax which I think is about 4%

Like I said I am a nurse and work is not hard to find for me however,
I don't mind contributing to the household but I don't want to work
full time and have my husband Mr. Mom and as the kids get older he
doesn't either. He is a painter and we have gone months before where
he has no work and even when he does have work we struggle to make
ends meet. So with the economy the way it is we are trying to sell
our house and buy something that has a smaller mortgage. I have an
uncle in Fort Myers who lives in a development and the have to paint
their homes every X number of years because to the requirements to
live in the development. My husbands theory is that he will be able
to get work via word of mouth by my uncle. The hope would be that I
could get a part time position as an RN.

We both hate the cold weather and even the kids don't seem to like it
much. My husband has psoriosis so he does better in the warm weather.

I think we would all be happy in FL I am just concerned about the
financial end of it...

And by the way we are going to unschool...I hate to think how many
times I will backslide but I am excited to begin the process...

So here's to deschooling!!!

Thank you everyone who has give advice etc. I am sure I will have a
ton of questions as we progress through this new journey.

Lori <3



--- In [email protected], marbleface@... wrote:
>
> Nursing is always in demand here in FL. The construction industry
is doing horribly now.
>
> My neighbor, an emergency room nurse, starts her new job at a local
hospital next week, although they did negotiate her salary down.
>
> My DH is a tile/stone/marble installer and is reasonably busy in
his high-end niche of the market but many in his line have gone out
of business and other trades are hurting for work. His latest story
was of the middle-aged guy standing outside the Home Depot with
a "Labor for Hire" sign.
>
> Not to scare you off too much because things will change but the
timing could be better.
>
> OTOH, you can probably get a house for cheap! :) And there are many
houses for rent while you decide where you want to live.
>
> Nance
>
>
>
>
> I think CT is a really good state for homeschooling as there does
not
> seem to be the regualtions in other states. Although it is a very
> expensive state to live in. With that said my husband really wants
to
> move to Florida. I know a couple of you from Florida seem to think
> that the job situation down there is not the greatest. (and the
gangs
> didn't thrill me either!) I am a nurse and my husband is a painter
> (house, etc...not canvas). I know the cost of living maybe less
down
> there but I think the pay is considerably less. Any thoughts on
this
> from the Floridians? Do you know what nurses or painters make and
if
> there are even jobs for either one available. I don't want to be
the
> main bread winner as I want to be home with the kids as much as
> possible.
>
>
> --
> Iraq Coalition Casualty Count
> http://icasualties.org/oif/default.aspx
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Meridith Richardson

I am also from Florida.  I have lived in West Palm and currently central (east) florida.  I love it.  Lots of relaxed and unschoolers here.  Great learning opportunities with year round pleasant weather etc.  Jobs are kind of hard but some places are adding lots of jobs like Palm Coast.  And the Flagler memorial hospital system there is ALWAYS hiring nurses.   The aged population here definitely makes health care a strong field.
Hope this helps.
Meridith


--- On Sun, 2/15/09, Laura <zurrolaur@...> wrote:

From: Laura <zurrolaur@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re:Help! I want to unschool but I am afraid...
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 9:56 AM






Hi Lori,

I grew up in Hartford, Connecticut and also Granby, but moved to Miami
twelve years ago and never looked back (but that was worked for me
:)). It's very unschooling/ homeschooling friendly here. But I'd like
to ask what your reasons are for moving other than jobs (actually I'd
love to know what type of work you're looking for sorry if I missed it
in the original post). My husband is French and moved here for the
same reasons I did. We moved away for a year to Argentina and then a
couple of other places before returning to Florida. We were super
happy to back in Miami because we really missed the tropical weather,
palm trees, and the international flavor since our daughter is being
raised trilingually. So I'm not sure where in Florida you're thinking
of moving to but I was wondering if it was the weather or jobs or some
other reason.

There are a lot of homeschool groups all over Florida, unschoolers are
often part of the groups as well. We have a great group in Miami with
a mix of home and unschoolers and also one in Fort Lauderdale.
If I can help you with anything please let me know :)

Laura

--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "Lori" <LMBWebmail@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to thank everyone who responded with compassion, great
> ideas and support. My husband is all for this except he thinks they
> should do times tables..lol. .I am sure you have heard that before. I
> am glad to hear that others do this without a lot of money!
>
> I think CT is a really good state for homeschooling as there does not
> seem to be the regualtions in other states. Although it is a very
> expensive state to live in. With that said my husband really wants to
> move to Florida. I know a couple of you from Florida seem to think
> that the job situation down there is not the greatest. (and the gangs
> didn't thrill me either!) I am a nurse and my husband is a painter
> (house, etc...not canvas). I know the cost of living maybe less down
> there but I think the pay is considerably less. Any thoughts on this
> from the Floridians? Do you know what nurses or painters make and if
> there are even jobs for either one available. I don't want to be the
> main bread winner as I want to be home with the kids as much as
> possible.
>
> Hubby and I are going to talk again today and try to make a decision
> about unschooling. If do something like give it a try, any
> suggestions on how long is a reasonable length of time to fairly try
> it...I don't want to not give it enough time as I think that may be
> unfair as I have read about deschooling and I am assuming this
> process is different for each individual. Does six months sound like
> a fair amount of time to try it out? I would like your opinions.
>
> Thanks again for all of you help. It really is appreciated!
> Lori
>
>
>
> --- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, rebecca de
> <rebeccadehate@ > wrote:
> >
> > dear I'm afraid,
> >
> >    you are not alone on this feeling.  but follow your instinct.  I
> was  afraid and I let my fears  stream out -- so it ended up with my
> son going back to kindergarten this year.  But now were more than 1/2
> way through the year and he's asking to stay home more, I can see his
> enthusiasm leaving at school, and he's asking to home school again. 
> So i have learned to stand my ground no matter what all the fears are-
> -- it's something new , it's different,  however if it feels right
> deep down within the gut -- its right for you and your kids.  Hope
> this helps some just wanted to encourage.  Have a blessed day. 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

cindybablitz

One of my (new) favourite pro-unschooling pieces of evidence is the
essay, A Mathematician's Lament, by Paul Lockhart.

http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

I think this should be required reading, definitely for every
unschooling family, (and yes, <G> I see the irony in "required
reading" ... for unschoolers <G>) but also for any parent. For
anyone who considers themselves a connaisseur of anything. Lockhart
speaks about the eloquence of mathematics the way a sommelier talks
about the depth and dimension of wine, the way a composer talks about
the provacative seduction of music, the way a painter talks about the
magic of light play on a wheatfield ... .

This essay not only changed the way I -- a wordsmith, NOT a numbers
passionista -- thought about the "But what about math" myth but also
gave me a new appreciation for the mathematic arts in toto.
Lockhart's adoration for the object of his devotion is as resonating
as is my adoration of a clever turn of phrase, or a well used semi-
colon.

I reference his essay in the Mathematics chapter in the book I'm
writing, which is an A-Z series of essays featuring anecdotes from
our unschooling journey AND wheelbarrows full of referential
resources affirming the scientific, social, metaphysical and
anthropological evidence pro-unschooling. My working title is
Alphabet Soup: 26 Essays About Our Life Without School.

Here's a manuscript clip:

(Confidential to you <G> because it's yet unpublished ... soon
though!)

"I've begun to theorize that the "But what about math" fear
associated with following a child-led approach to learning is one of
the greatest unschooling myths out there, perhaps second only to
the "But what about socialization" question associated with
homeschooling in general. The mainstream belief about a well-rounded
K-12 education assumes that, at some point, every student needs to
learn algebra … and there's no way to imagine that trigonometry et.
al. will be organically encountered the way, for instance, geography,
history, and semi-colons might come to be stumbled upon along an
unschooly path.

"Before I get too far along my musings about whether or not
curriculized mathematics are necessary, and later, how functional
mathematics occur organically in life anyway, I must pause to
celebrate Paul Lockhart's A Mathematician's Lament . This essay –
besides being my new favourite must-read recommendation for
unschoolers and, well, anyone with a pulse – is a brilliant exposé
lamenting the pedantic and incongruous way mathematics has been
dissected into particulate bits of formulas and "a senseless
bouillabaisse of disconnected topics". Lockhart's devotion to
the "breathtaking depth and heartbreaking beauty in this ancient art
form" exalts mathematics as a fine art the way only a truly
impassioned connoisseur could.

"He says it is "ironic that people dismiss mathematics as the
antithesis of creativity. They are missing out on an art form older
than any book, more profound than any poem, and more abstract than
any abstract."

""And," he emphasizes, "It is school (emphasis his) that has done
this! What a sad endless cycle of innocent teachers inflicting
damage upon innocent students. We could all be having so much more
fun."

"While my premise herein might could be a questioning of whether
sophisticated mathematics principles warrant the attention of every K-
12-aged person, Lockhart's thesis is that mathematics are eloquent
expressions of creative possibility. Not unlike musical composition,
or fine art painting. And that subjugating students into indentured
servitude to Mathematic Programs of Study is as stifling as it is
tragic."

... and the chapter goes on from there ...

I used to shy away from the "But what about math" wonderings most
skeptics of unschooling spar with. Because I was uncertain
myself ... what ABOUT math? Now I'm to the point that the "But what
about math" question is one of my preferred soapboxes. It's just
ridiculous to imagine that every human being needs to know
pythagorus' theory ... or any of the other formulaic bits that are
poured into us in the school system's jug and mug approach to
teaching/learning. Now, thanks to Lockhart's essay, I not only think
it's ridiculous to subjugate every unique individual to a single
static Program of Studies, I also think it's an abomination to have
the art of mathematics bastardized the way it is in schools. I'd be
as offended if music was deconstructed and systematically forced onto
every single student.

Hurrah for unschooling liberty!

loving,

Cindy

Host of Alphabet Soup: 2009 Calgary Unschooling Conference
http://www.alphabetsoupconference.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlphabetSoupConference/

> Memorizing math facts is one of the "worst" ways to learn math and
> only encourages those that understand numbers and memorize well.
> Most kids do not function that way.

> This is probably, in my opinion, the area that we get the most
> grief from non-unschoolers about. They say, "How are they going to
> learn their math facts?" I kindly point out that there are other
> ways to learn math that apply to life and we capitalize on these
> when the kids are interested.
>
> Heather in Ohio

Michele James-Parham

--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...> wrote:
-=-=- Something to keep in mind with math is that the sequence its
generally taught - in schools and most curricula - isn't necessarily
the sequence in which children naturally become interested in and
learn those concepts. An example that's fresh in my mind, from
chatting with another mom yesterday, is that its not necessary to
learn basic addition and subtraction before multiplication and/or
division. -=-=-

I can attest to this. My 5 yr old son is exploding with mathematics
left and right and is ALL over the place right now. He is discovering
and figuring out adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing AND basic
algebra ALL at the same time. A couple days ago he says to me, "3
groups of 3 or 3 times 3 is the same as 3 plus 3 plus 3...which equals
9, I think." I simply agreed and smiled. He also informed me back when
he was about 3.5 yrs old that "A+B=C" and I said, "it sure can in
certain cases" to which he replied, "If A=1 and B=2, then C=3 and
1+2=3". It was then that I found out he had assigned each letter of
the alphabet it's number and was playing around with how to get from
one letter (number) to another.

Peace and Love
Michele
Mum to DS Elijah (5)
www.naturalattachment.net

Laura

Lori,

I would say you'll have many of the same high expenses in South
Florida minus the state income tax. House and car insurance can be
high as well as taxes but it depends a lot upon where you are in
particular. Figure you'll have a higher bill 2/3 of the year for ac
but then really no heat in the winter and lots of great weather. There
are hurricanes of course but then again I will take those any day over
blizzards, ice storms and other freaky storms and it's actually humid
but over all without the humidity it would be actually cooler here :)
I have a friend who is in nursing and she says there are still plenty
of jobs.
Overall you could probably get a decent price on a house at this point
although the housing market still isn't at the bottom but there are
deals to be had.
As I also said before, lots of homeschooling groups and some
unschoolers as well and very homeschool friendly here.

Good luck on your research, I hope you find everything you're looking
for and don't hesitate to send me an email if I can help.

Laura

Kelly Lovejoy

Although of interest to some, this is tedious for those of us NOT planning to move to Florida.



It also is side-tracking the list which is *supposed* to be about unschooling. <g>




Could we please get back on topic? You may ceratinly take this topic off-list.




Thanks!


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." ~Ghandi


-----Original Message-----
From: Laura <zurrolaur@...>Lori,


I would say you'll have many of the same high expenses in South
Florida minus the state income tax. House and car insurance can be
high as well as taxes but it depends a lot upon where you are in
particular. Figure you'll have a higher bill 2/3 of the year for ac
but then really no heat in the winter and lots of great weather. There
are hurricanes of course but then again I will take those any day over
blizzards, ice storms and other freaky storms and it's actually humid
but over all without the humidity it would be actually cooler here :)
I have a friend who is in nursing and she says there are still plenty
of jobs.
Overall you could probably get a decent price on a house at this point
although the housing market still isn't at the bottom but there are
deals to be had.
As I also said before, lots of homeschooling groups and some
unschoolers as well and very homeschool friendly here.

Good luck on your research, I hope you find everything you're looking
for and don't hesitate to send me an email if I can help.

Laura










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nance Confer

unschoolingbasicsThanks for being so patient.

It sounds like you have a good plan, Lori, but if you have any additional questions, feel free to email me directly.

Nance
marbleface@...


Re: Florida talk
Posted by: "Kelly Lovejoy" kbcdlovejo@... kellyinsc
Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:45 pm (PST)
Although of interest to some, this is tedious for those of us NOT planning to move to Florida.

It also is side-tracking the list which is *supposed* to be about unschooling. <g>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

LOL yeah - there was a point several years ago when DS wanted me to make
him "number quizzes" on a daily basis. So, I'd ask how many questions he
wanted and how big the numbers should be and so on. Then I'd write up a
quiz for him to do at will (no set time and not "timed"). Once he was
done, he'd show it to me to see if he got it all correct. We also had
addition and multiplication tables 1-10 on the kitchen chalkboard for
the longest time, by his request, so he could find answers himself
without having to ask us. We even picked up a book that starts at
counting and goes through geometry and statistics, in short explanatory
sections (2 to 3 pages max per topic), no "exercises" or anything, just
the "how to", that he can reference at will.

Deb R


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

Just watch Numb3rs a few times to see the art and pattern and beauty in,
well, numbers. There's a creativity and artistry in seeing numbers and
applying their principles to answering questions about life, the
universe, and everything.

Many people WILL indeed need to know various geometric theorems BUT they
can learn them when they need them. Spent about 15 minutes discussing pi
with 10 yr old DS yesterday. He knows that pi = 3.14159 (but it never
actually ends and you can make an android/robot go crazy by asking it to
tell you the last digit of pi lol) I showed him how it got invented when
someone noticed that no matter how big or small a circle was, the
relationship between the radius and the area always came down to that
number. He knew "pi*r^2" because that's one of those old "family jokes"
"Pi r square...No silly corn bread r square, pie r round" LOL So I just
showed him that if you have any two of the three bits (area, radius, pi)
you can figure out the other one - A=pi*r^2; pi=A/r^2; r^2=A/pi

It wasn't a "Planned" lesson, it was just something that popped up out
of discussion about something else.

One of the "issues" with the standard school math approach is that it
assumes that adding or the Pythagorean theorem or whatever is an end in
itself. It's not. Those are all tools, just like a hammer or a drill.
They are useful for certain purposes and when you need them, it's handy
to know how to use them but you can learn to use them right then, you
don't have to have "Hammering" practice every day for several years,
with lessons and tests and all, in order to use that tool.

Deb R


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intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

cindybablitz

> One of the "issues" with the standard school math approach is that
> it assumes that adding or the Pythagorean theorem or whatever is an
> end in itself. It's not. Those are all tools, just like a hammer or
> a drill.

This was kind of Lockhart's lament in

http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

The way math is taught in school we get all caught up in the curve of
the claw, or the sphericality of the ballpeen, rather missing that the
cathedral, or the teepee, or the sparrows nesting inside the birdhouse
in the spring was quite the point of the hammer in the first place.

Cindy

Host of Alphabet Soup: 2009 Calgary Unschooling Conference
http://www.alphabetsoupconference.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlphabetSoupConference/

pebsflower

--Here are some hints and my philosophy:

HOW TO BEGIN UNSCHOOLING...

Have a wonder-filled week.
Just begin...a look at beginning to homeschool/unschooling....
In the ensuing days, take hikes or have picnics; do the things you
could not do when he/she was in school.
Get to know each other well. Enjoy being his parent and help him
enjoy being your child. He will soon respond favorably to being treated
in a more mature fashion than he was in the school world. If you talk
to him
with your faith and belief in him showing through, he will rise to
your expectations.
Give it time, lots of time—maybe even a year. Your day is now
determined more by the rising and setting of the sun than by clocks
and schedules.
You aren't in the hamster-wheel anymore, so let it sink in . . . and
enjoy it!


Pebs

- In [email protected], "cindybablitz"
<cindy.bablitz@...> wrote:
>
> > One of the "issues" with the standard school math approach is that
> > it assumes that adding or the Pythagorean theorem or whatever is an
> > end in itself. It's not. Those are all tools, just like a hammer or
> > a drill.
>
> This was kind of Lockhart's lament in
>
> http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf
>
> The way math is taught in school we get all caught up in the curve of
> the claw, or the sphericality of the ballpeen, rather missing that the
> cathedral, or the teepee, or the sparrows nesting inside the birdhouse
> in the spring was quite the point of the hammer in the first place.
>
> Cindy
>
> Host of Alphabet Soup: 2009 Calgary Unschooling Conference
> http://www.alphabetsoupconference.com/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlphabetSoupConference/
>