Thanks for the great info on this group!
Pamela
I am new to unschooling and trying to unschool myself more than my son
it seems. I took my son out of public school at the end of last school
year, I just signed him up as a homeschooler this year. Well Fast
Forward we are not doing much "school" work but he is enjoying being a
boy and I enjoy his company. My friends are homeschoolers who keep
reminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school work
bla bla bla..My son is in Special Ed in school for learning
disablities..Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met in
many ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long and
follow orders. So he is home with me.
My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child can
SPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in a
book? I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speech
therapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction and
he loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 where
he takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I am
doing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hanging
out all the time. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needs
spelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to do
anything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is not
getting enough education? :) Pam
it seems. I took my son out of public school at the end of last school
year, I just signed him up as a homeschooler this year. Well Fast
Forward we are not doing much "school" work but he is enjoying being a
boy and I enjoy his company. My friends are homeschoolers who keep
reminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school work
bla bla bla..My son is in Special Ed in school for learning
disablities..Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met in
many ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long and
follow orders. So he is home with me.
My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child can
SPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in a
book? I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speech
therapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction and
he loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 where
he takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I am
doing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hanging
out all the time. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needs
spelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to do
anything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is not
getting enough education? :) Pam
DJ250
I was once where you are now. :-)
An unschooler basically believes that enough "education" is as much as
your child needs and wants HIMSELF rather than what some school says is
needed at that grade level or age. It's hard at first to turn off the
schooled mind switch but you and your son will benefit greatly by doing
so!!!
Try letting go of the reading expectations. Most children, if left to
learn to read in their own time (with support from you and others, of
course, if needed), would do so later. A child that learns to read when
HE is ready, whether that be at 4, 6, 8, or even 12 will WANT to read
and not because someone told him to. He will go after it with an inner
drive rather than to please a teacher or mom or dad. That's VERY
different than the child who was made to read by a certain age in school
or at home in a school-at-home type of homeschool. No one can tell the
difference at adulthood between someone who learned to read at 4 and
someone who learned to read at 12.
Let go! See how much joy he gets when left to his own devices for a
while! Each of you follow your interests, whatever they may be. Forget
that anyone ever said there is such a thing as school. Rather, there is
life to explore! Watch a movie together, bake, visit friends, go to the
museum, take a class, join a homeschool playgroup, go bowling, go ice
skating, build things, read books together, magazines, play games,
etc...
Go to www.sandradodd.com <http://www.sandradodd.com/> and
www.joyfullyrejoycing.com <http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com/> and read
away!
Best wishes,
~Melissa :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pamela
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
I am new to unschooling and trying to unschool myself more than my son
it seems. I took my son out of public school at the end of last school
year, I just signed him up as a homeschooler this year. Well Fast
Forward we are not doing much "school" work but he is enjoying being a
boy and I enjoy his company. My friends are homeschoolers who keep
reminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school work
bla bla bla..My son is in Special Ed in school for learning
disablities..Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met in
many ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long and
follow orders. So he is home with me.
My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child can
SPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in a
book? I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speech
therapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction and
he loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 where
he takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I am
doing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hanging
out all the time. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needs
spelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to do
anything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is not
getting enough education? :) Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
An unschooler basically believes that enough "education" is as much as
your child needs and wants HIMSELF rather than what some school says is
needed at that grade level or age. It's hard at first to turn off the
schooled mind switch but you and your son will benefit greatly by doing
so!!!
Try letting go of the reading expectations. Most children, if left to
learn to read in their own time (with support from you and others, of
course, if needed), would do so later. A child that learns to read when
HE is ready, whether that be at 4, 6, 8, or even 12 will WANT to read
and not because someone told him to. He will go after it with an inner
drive rather than to please a teacher or mom or dad. That's VERY
different than the child who was made to read by a certain age in school
or at home in a school-at-home type of homeschool. No one can tell the
difference at adulthood between someone who learned to read at 4 and
someone who learned to read at 12.
Let go! See how much joy he gets when left to his own devices for a
while! Each of you follow your interests, whatever they may be. Forget
that anyone ever said there is such a thing as school. Rather, there is
life to explore! Watch a movie together, bake, visit friends, go to the
museum, take a class, join a homeschool playgroup, go bowling, go ice
skating, build things, read books together, magazines, play games,
etc...
Go to www.sandradodd.com <http://www.sandradodd.com/> and
www.joyfullyrejoycing.com <http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com/> and read
away!
Best wishes,
~Melissa :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pamela
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
I am new to unschooling and trying to unschool myself more than my son
it seems. I took my son out of public school at the end of last school
year, I just signed him up as a homeschooler this year. Well Fast
Forward we are not doing much "school" work but he is enjoying being a
boy and I enjoy his company. My friends are homeschoolers who keep
reminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school work
bla bla bla..My son is in Special Ed in school for learning
disablities..Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met in
many ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long and
follow orders. So he is home with me.
My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child can
SPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in a
book? I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speech
therapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction and
he loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 where
he takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I am
doing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hanging
out all the time. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needs
spelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to do
anything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is not
getting enough education? :) Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather & Markus Schleidt
Part of the issue here is of course, which state you live in and whether they require you to "log" your hours or not. I, fortunately, live in a state that does not (Ohio) and a VERY lenient school district that only requires we do 800 hours of "school" in a year. I tell people that with unschooling 24 hours a day, we have that covered in 1/2 the time of everyone else. Learning occurs in our family ALL the time.
My children are not in Special Ed and my 8 yo and 5 yo could not sit at a desk for hours at a time, nor would I want them to. That is such passive learning. Go take a walk and talk about the trees and the animals that live in the forest. If he's interested, talk about what they eat, if they are nocturnal, how they are born (live or eggs), etc, etc. Take him to a museum and learn about airplanes, Lewis and Clark, dinosaurs, whatever his interests are. If he has an interest in 4-H or Cub Scouts or a church program, let that count towards your "required" hours. Bake with him in the afternoon and talk about measuring things. Let him write out the recipe card or dictate to you what he thinks would make a great cake and write that recipe down on a card for him.
Make it fun and exciting and I bet your "homeschooling" friends will be somewhat jealous because they will see how much fun you all are having while learning as much as they are, only different stuff.
Someone just recently posted a sample of ways to log the learning they do on a daily basis. Not sure when or who, but it was just in the past few days. If you need that for your state, take a look at that sample and run with it. Before I officially started unschooling I tried to keep records of what we were doing on a daily basis just for my own interest and it was more cumbersome than it was worth. Now, I see everything we do and don't have to log it.
As for knowing how to spell correctly, Charlotte Mason says that stuff doesn't even need to be introduced until about 4th grade. I realize with unschooling, we don't push any grade/age/level, etc however, I point this out because I think our friends and the school system put way too much emphasis on the reading, writing, arithmetic. I once read that if you just read, read, read to your child they will see the words and start to pick them up. My 8 yo asked for a spelling program, so I bought All About Spelling, but he hasn't been interested since I got it in the mail. When he is ready, we will look at it and see if it can give him some clues as to spelling, but right now all I care about it letting him get used to words (John Holt's idea - How Children Learn).
As for government, geography, etc. - Take him to meet the mayor or other government official. PS children don't get that opportunity and they certainly don't get it in an individualized way. Make something like that happen - it is up to you. My son played Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego for three straight days (I helped) and he LOVES learning about the world now. He can tell you more countries than most kids his age. Talk to him about where your ancestors came from and if he shows interest, delve into that country/area more. If not, let it be and try again some other time to see if he has a renewed interest.
My son has done all of 1/2 workbook for Math and that was only because he wanted to. He can add in his head and understands the concept of subtraction. We do not memorize math facts. We go to Wal-mart and heely through the store and estimate how many feet it is from one side to the other. We comparison shop the name brands to the generics and we figure out if we are within budget. This is real life stuff. Not workbooks that have no relativity.
You will find that they learn a whole lot more when you no longer have an agenda. I still struggle with some things - my son can't write much, but I know that will come, so I have let it go. Today he wrote two pages of a recipe that he copied from a DVD he was watching. I smiled inside!!! Hope any of this helps!
Heather (Ohio)
To: [email protected]: ohwhatacruise@...: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:36:45 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
I am new to unschooling and trying to unschool myself more than my sonit seems. I took my son out of public school at the end of last schoolyear, I just signed him up as a homeschooler this year. Well FastForward we are not doing much "school" work but he is enjoying being aboy and I enjoy his company. My friends are homeschoolers who keepreminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school workbla bla bla..My son is in Special Ed in school for learningdisablities..Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met inmany ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long andfollow orders. So he is home with me. My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child canSPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in abook? I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speechtherapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction andhe loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 wherehe takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I amdoing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hangingout all the time. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needsspelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to doanything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is notgetting enough education? :) Pam
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live� Hotmail�:�more than just e-mail.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My children are not in Special Ed and my 8 yo and 5 yo could not sit at a desk for hours at a time, nor would I want them to. That is such passive learning. Go take a walk and talk about the trees and the animals that live in the forest. If he's interested, talk about what they eat, if they are nocturnal, how they are born (live or eggs), etc, etc. Take him to a museum and learn about airplanes, Lewis and Clark, dinosaurs, whatever his interests are. If he has an interest in 4-H or Cub Scouts or a church program, let that count towards your "required" hours. Bake with him in the afternoon and talk about measuring things. Let him write out the recipe card or dictate to you what he thinks would make a great cake and write that recipe down on a card for him.
Make it fun and exciting and I bet your "homeschooling" friends will be somewhat jealous because they will see how much fun you all are having while learning as much as they are, only different stuff.
Someone just recently posted a sample of ways to log the learning they do on a daily basis. Not sure when or who, but it was just in the past few days. If you need that for your state, take a look at that sample and run with it. Before I officially started unschooling I tried to keep records of what we were doing on a daily basis just for my own interest and it was more cumbersome than it was worth. Now, I see everything we do and don't have to log it.
As for knowing how to spell correctly, Charlotte Mason says that stuff doesn't even need to be introduced until about 4th grade. I realize with unschooling, we don't push any grade/age/level, etc however, I point this out because I think our friends and the school system put way too much emphasis on the reading, writing, arithmetic. I once read that if you just read, read, read to your child they will see the words and start to pick them up. My 8 yo asked for a spelling program, so I bought All About Spelling, but he hasn't been interested since I got it in the mail. When he is ready, we will look at it and see if it can give him some clues as to spelling, but right now all I care about it letting him get used to words (John Holt's idea - How Children Learn).
As for government, geography, etc. - Take him to meet the mayor or other government official. PS children don't get that opportunity and they certainly don't get it in an individualized way. Make something like that happen - it is up to you. My son played Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego for three straight days (I helped) and he LOVES learning about the world now. He can tell you more countries than most kids his age. Talk to him about where your ancestors came from and if he shows interest, delve into that country/area more. If not, let it be and try again some other time to see if he has a renewed interest.
My son has done all of 1/2 workbook for Math and that was only because he wanted to. He can add in his head and understands the concept of subtraction. We do not memorize math facts. We go to Wal-mart and heely through the store and estimate how many feet it is from one side to the other. We comparison shop the name brands to the generics and we figure out if we are within budget. This is real life stuff. Not workbooks that have no relativity.
You will find that they learn a whole lot more when you no longer have an agenda. I still struggle with some things - my son can't write much, but I know that will come, so I have let it go. Today he wrote two pages of a recipe that he copied from a DVD he was watching. I smiled inside!!! Hope any of this helps!
Heather (Ohio)
To: [email protected]: ohwhatacruise@...: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:36:45 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
I am new to unschooling and trying to unschool myself more than my sonit seems. I took my son out of public school at the end of last schoolyear, I just signed him up as a homeschooler this year. Well FastForward we are not doing much "school" work but he is enjoying being aboy and I enjoy his company. My friends are homeschoolers who keepreminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school workbla bla bla..My son is in Special Ed in school for learningdisablities..Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met inmany ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long andfollow orders. So he is home with me. My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child canSPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in abook? I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speechtherapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction andhe loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 wherehe takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I amdoing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hangingout all the time. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needsspelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to doanything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is notgetting enough education? :) Pam
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live� Hotmail�:�more than just e-mail.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betj
I remember spelling tests with fear! I learned more about spelling as an adult with spell check than as a kid with a dictionary! I hated hearing "look it up" when I'd ask how to spell something. How can you look it up if you don't know how to spell it? I do algebra because I like it but honestly most adults never use it. I have even spoken to adults who can't balance a checkbook but were "educated". Unschooling is great because it accepts that we all have different strengths and interests. I'm a KOOK (Keeper Of Odd Knowledge) and read Shakespeare at 11 by choice but freaked out because my car was running hot (it was totally dry!) and if you ask me knowing about cars is much more useful than knowing cursive, algebra, spelling and that Istanbul was Constantinople...
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Heather & Markus Schleidt <hmschleidt@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:34:05
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
Part of the issue here is of course, which state you live in and whether they require you to "log" your hours or not. I, fortunately, live in a state that does not (Ohio) and a VERY lenient school district that only requires we do 800 hours of "school" in a year. I tell people that with unschooling 24 hours a day, we have that covered in 1/2 the time of everyone else. Learning occurs in our family ALL the time.
My children are not in Special Ed and my 8 yo and 5 yo could not sit at a desk for hours at a time, nor would I want them to. That is such passive learning. Go take a walk and talk about the trees and the animals that live in the forest. If he's interested, talk about what they eat, if they are nocturnal, how they are born (live or eggs), etc, etc. Take him to a museum and learn about airplanes, Lewis and Clark, dinosaurs, whatever his interests are. If he has an interest in 4-H or Cub Scouts or a church program, let that count towards your "required" hours. Bake with him in the afternoon and talk about measuring things. Let him write out the recipe card or dictate to you what he thinks would make a great cake and write that recipe down on a card for him.
Make it fun and exciting and I bet your "homeschooling" friends will be somewhat jealous because they will see how much fun you all are having while learning as much as they are, only different stuff.
Someone just recently posted a sample of ways to log the learning they do on a daily basis. Not sure when or who, but it was just in the past few days. If you need that for your state, take a look at that sample and run with it. Before I officially started unschooling I tried to keep records of what we were doing on a daily basis just for my own interest and it was more cumbersome than it was worth. Now, I see everything we do and don't have to log it.
As for knowing how to spell correctly, Charlotte Mason says that stuff doesn't even need to be introduced until about 4th grade. I realize with unschooling, we don't push any grade/age/level, etc however, I point this out because I think our friends and the school system put way too much emphasis on the reading, writing, arithmetic. I once read that if you just read, read, read to your child they will see the words and start to pick them up. My 8 yo asked for a spelling program, so I bought All About Spelling, but he hasn't been interested since I got it in the mail. When he is ready, we will look at it and see if it can give him some clues as to spelling, but right now all I care about it letting him get used to words (John Holt's idea - How Children Learn).
As for government, geography, etc. - Take him to meet the mayor or other government official. PS children don't get that opportunity and they certainly don't get it in an individualized way. Make something like that happen - it is up to you. My son played Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego for three straight days (I helped) and he LOVES learning about the world now. He can tell you more countries than most kids his age. Talk to him about where your ancestors came from and if he shows interest, delve into that country/area more. If not, let it be and try again some other time to see if he has a renewed interest.
My son has done all of 1/2 workbook for Math and that was only because he wanted to. He can add in his head and understands the concept of subtraction. We do not memorize math facts. We go to Wal-mart and heely through the store and estimate how many feet it is from one side to the other. We comparison shop the name brands to the generics and we figure out if we are within budget. This is real life stuff. Not workbooks that have no relativity.
You will find that they learn a whole lot more when you no longer have an agenda. I still struggle with some things - my son can't write much, but I know that will come, so I have let it go. Today he wrote two pages of a recipe that he copied from a DVD he was watching. I smiled inside!!! Hope any of this helps!
Heather (Ohio)
To: [email protected]: ohwhatacruise@...: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:36:45 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
I am new to unschooling and trying to unschool myself more than my sonit seems. I took my son out of public school at the end of last schoolyear, I just signed him up as a homeschooler this year. Well FastForward we are not doing much "school" work but he is enjoying being aboy and I enjoy his company. My friends are homeschoolers who keepreminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school workbla bla bla..My son is in Special Ed in school for learningdisablities..Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met inmany ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long andfollow orders. So he is home with me. My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child canSPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in abook? I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speechtherapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction andhe loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 wherehe takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I amdoing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hangingout all the time. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needsspelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to doanything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is notgetting enough education? :) Pam
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Heather & Markus Schleidt <hmschleidt@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:34:05
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
Part of the issue here is of course, which state you live in and whether they require you to "log" your hours or not. I, fortunately, live in a state that does not (Ohio) and a VERY lenient school district that only requires we do 800 hours of "school" in a year. I tell people that with unschooling 24 hours a day, we have that covered in 1/2 the time of everyone else. Learning occurs in our family ALL the time.
My children are not in Special Ed and my 8 yo and 5 yo could not sit at a desk for hours at a time, nor would I want them to. That is such passive learning. Go take a walk and talk about the trees and the animals that live in the forest. If he's interested, talk about what they eat, if they are nocturnal, how they are born (live or eggs), etc, etc. Take him to a museum and learn about airplanes, Lewis and Clark, dinosaurs, whatever his interests are. If he has an interest in 4-H or Cub Scouts or a church program, let that count towards your "required" hours. Bake with him in the afternoon and talk about measuring things. Let him write out the recipe card or dictate to you what he thinks would make a great cake and write that recipe down on a card for him.
Make it fun and exciting and I bet your "homeschooling" friends will be somewhat jealous because they will see how much fun you all are having while learning as much as they are, only different stuff.
Someone just recently posted a sample of ways to log the learning they do on a daily basis. Not sure when or who, but it was just in the past few days. If you need that for your state, take a look at that sample and run with it. Before I officially started unschooling I tried to keep records of what we were doing on a daily basis just for my own interest and it was more cumbersome than it was worth. Now, I see everything we do and don't have to log it.
As for knowing how to spell correctly, Charlotte Mason says that stuff doesn't even need to be introduced until about 4th grade. I realize with unschooling, we don't push any grade/age/level, etc however, I point this out because I think our friends and the school system put way too much emphasis on the reading, writing, arithmetic. I once read that if you just read, read, read to your child they will see the words and start to pick them up. My 8 yo asked for a spelling program, so I bought All About Spelling, but he hasn't been interested since I got it in the mail. When he is ready, we will look at it and see if it can give him some clues as to spelling, but right now all I care about it letting him get used to words (John Holt's idea - How Children Learn).
As for government, geography, etc. - Take him to meet the mayor or other government official. PS children don't get that opportunity and they certainly don't get it in an individualized way. Make something like that happen - it is up to you. My son played Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego for three straight days (I helped) and he LOVES learning about the world now. He can tell you more countries than most kids his age. Talk to him about where your ancestors came from and if he shows interest, delve into that country/area more. If not, let it be and try again some other time to see if he has a renewed interest.
My son has done all of 1/2 workbook for Math and that was only because he wanted to. He can add in his head and understands the concept of subtraction. We do not memorize math facts. We go to Wal-mart and heely through the store and estimate how many feet it is from one side to the other. We comparison shop the name brands to the generics and we figure out if we are within budget. This is real life stuff. Not workbooks that have no relativity.
You will find that they learn a whole lot more when you no longer have an agenda. I still struggle with some things - my son can't write much, but I know that will come, so I have let it go. Today he wrote two pages of a recipe that he copied from a DVD he was watching. I smiled inside!!! Hope any of this helps!
Heather (Ohio)
To: [email protected]: ohwhatacruise@...: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:36:45 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
I am new to unschooling and trying to unschool myself more than my sonit seems. I took my son out of public school at the end of last schoolyear, I just signed him up as a homeschooler this year. Well FastForward we are not doing much "school" work but he is enjoying being aboy and I enjoy his company. My friends are homeschoolers who keepreminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school workbla bla bla..My son is in Special Ed in school for learningdisablities..Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met inmany ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long andfollow orders. So he is home with me. My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child canSPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in abook? I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speechtherapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction andhe loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 wherehe takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I amdoing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hangingout all the time. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needsspelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to doanything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is notgetting enough education? :) Pam
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 22, 2009, at 7:36 PM, Pamela wrote:
for state and local lists. But in general, unschooling happens in
every state. There isn't any state that says you need to do 4 hours
of *seat* work. People who are afraid (whether it be of the laws or
of providing the education they think their child needs) will
interpret the laws strictly so they can do it "right".
In MA we need to provide an equivalent number of hours. A nervous
person might interpret that as 6 hours of school work. But it just
means we need to spend those hours learning. And anything they're
involved with is learning. A movie is learning. A video game is
(profound!) learning. Reading. Drawing. Talking. Shopping. It's *all*
learning.
they are old enough to want to communicate their ideas, they will
have tried to read enough of others' creative spelling, will have
built up what they think of others who spell well and don't spell
well, that they'll want to.
The best tool is an automatic spellchecker so they can see misspelled
words (like it just told me that mispelled was wrong ;-) and can
choose to correct them *or not* depending on whether *they* feel it's
worth it for the context they're writing in.
At 8 I'd be hugely surprised if he's not spelling a lot of words
creatively. I don't think my daughter (now 17 and quite proficient at
spelling) started writing enough and caring enough until she was 14
or so.
sucked out of it. That's not how humans are hardwired to learn. We
learn by doing and using and thinking about what we take in. While
textbooks give us the illusion that all the important knowledge is
there, how much is taken in? If we don't want the information, if the
information isn't interesting, passing it in front of the student
gives the teacher the justification to say "I did my part" and blame
the student if it doesn't stick.
If you're vaguely familiar with the program Are You Smarter Than a
5th Grader? it takes on new meaning if you realize that everyone
older than 5th grade is a *former* 5th grader. If they *aren't*
smarter than they used to be, then there's something wrong. It means
the 5th grade information may be present in 5th grade but it doesn't
stick. And it means their definition of smart isn't very useful. A
better title might be "How Much of the Information They Tried to Pack
into You in the 5th Grade Actually Stuck?"
So what do you do instead? Live a rich life. A movie that takes place
in Australia is going to mean a lot more, give him a lot more than an
informational book on Australia. It's not going to feel or look like
school learning! *After* the movie, he *might* find the book
interesting and suck *some* information -- the parts that build on
what fascinated him or new stuff that catches his interest -- from
it. But even better Google the parts that captivated him and see if
there's more interesting things. (Or *you* Google them and pass it
on.) Keep a wall map up. Get a globe. Show him where the places are.
If he's interested, show him more. Use him as a barometer of how much
he wants. Once his brain is wandering off to the next thing, he's
stopped learning and you're wasting time for both of you and
potentially damaging his interest.
Show him things because you think they're interesting -- as you might
to a friend -- not because you think it's important to get the
information into him. It's not going to go in a stick until he has a
need for it. And the need comes from living a rich life. Do things
that interest him, run things by him you think will interest him
(*not* because you think they'll be good for him) and he'll pull more
about them inside because he'll want to know more.
-- of average unschooled kids are not reading by 8. 10 is not
unusual. 12 is not unusual. You're asking him to do more than the
average unschooled kids are doing.
Read here:
http://sandradodd.com/reading
and
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com (down the left hand side are some pages
on reading)
While many educators and professionals will be quick to tell you that
a child needs reading intervention, they *don't* know that is true.
They have *never* encountered a child who has no agenda to meet, who
is allowed to read when they're developmentally able and want to.
They have *zero* experience. (That can't be emphasized enough! They
*aren't* experts in how kids naturally read.) What they do know is
that in the artificial world of school where educators need kids to
read independently by 4th grade, that an 8 yo who is not reading "up
to speed" is going to have problems. The problems aren't natural.
They're created by school.
We have lots of kids who weren't reading by "4th grade" who, by the
time they leave home, are reading in a way that's indistinguishable
from unschooled kids who read at 6. When reading kicks in, kids are
fairly quickly reading at age level. No lessons. No required reading.
All it takes is reading to them when they want, answering questions,
having things they want to read around them, living in a print rich
environment.
have said no thanks? Could he have chosen to take no classes if none
appealed to him? Could he drop out if they weren't meeting what he
felt *his* needs are?
If not, think about how much you'd get out of a class on Medieval
Turkish Law if your husband made you go.
You're actually interfering with the learning that's natural to
humans by imposing processes that ease your fears but are very
inefficient ways to learn.
By "hanging out" I don't mean releasing him into the house and
letting him amuse himself. I mean stepping back when he's involved,
running interesting things through his life, getting enough involved
in the things he's interested in to have conversations about them,
helping him explore his interests even further with related items
(but let him be the judge of how much or how deep or even if).
adults, it's most every adult who went through school and managed to
convince themselves that all that hard work had to be for some benefit.
It is hard to let go of the old model. If you've only known
"swimming" by holding onto the side and touching bottom, then letting
go in the deep water will seem like an impossibility. The only skills
you have are hold on and touch bottom which are useless away from the
sides and the bottom! Unschooling is letting go of the sides and
bottom. It takes a while to figure out what to put in place of those
two. And for a while nothing you do feels as right or comforting. It
feels like you're about to drown! But once you catch on to what we do
instead of instruction and workbooks, then you'll understand. :-) It
will be and feel more natural -- and more interesting! -- than
holding onto the sides and standing in the water. But like swimming,
it's something that is best understood by seeing it done successfully
and -- even more importantly -- by doing it yourself.
Read the archives here. Search for your big fears and you'll see
posts from others with the same fears.
Read Sandra Dodd's site and my site. Follow links. There's a lifetime
of reading there ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My friends are homeschoolers who keepSpecifics of what the law says and how it can be interpreted are more
> reminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school work
> bla bla bla..
for state and local lists. But in general, unschooling happens in
every state. There isn't any state that says you need to do 4 hours
of *seat* work. People who are afraid (whether it be of the laws or
of providing the education they think their child needs) will
interpret the laws strictly so they can do it "right".
In MA we need to provide an equivalent number of hours. A nervous
person might interpret that as 6 hours of school work. But it just
means we need to spend those hours learning. And anything they're
involved with is learning. A movie is learning. A video game is
(profound!) learning. Reading. Drawing. Talking. Shopping. It's *all*
learning.
> How do you insure your child canBy trusting that spelling well has it's own intrinsic value. When
> SPELL correctly
they are old enough to want to communicate their ideas, they will
have tried to read enough of others' creative spelling, will have
built up what they think of others who spell well and don't spell
well, that they'll want to.
The best tool is an automatic spellchecker so they can see misspelled
words (like it just told me that mispelled was wrong ;-) and can
choose to correct them *or not* depending on whether *they* feel it's
worth it for the context they're writing in.
At 8 I'd be hugely surprised if he's not spelling a lot of words
creatively. I don't think my daughter (now 17 and quite proficient at
spelling) started writing enough and caring enough until she was 14
or so.
> knows govt and geography if you do not do much in aBecause what's found in a book is an artificial summary with the life
> book?
sucked out of it. That's not how humans are hardwired to learn. We
learn by doing and using and thinking about what we take in. While
textbooks give us the illusion that all the important knowledge is
there, how much is taken in? If we don't want the information, if the
information isn't interesting, passing it in front of the student
gives the teacher the justification to say "I did my part" and blame
the student if it doesn't stick.
If you're vaguely familiar with the program Are You Smarter Than a
5th Grader? it takes on new meaning if you realize that everyone
older than 5th grade is a *former* 5th grader. If they *aren't*
smarter than they used to be, then there's something wrong. It means
the 5th grade information may be present in 5th grade but it doesn't
stick. And it means their definition of smart isn't very useful. A
better title might be "How Much of the Information They Tried to Pack
into You in the 5th Grade Actually Stuck?"
So what do you do instead? Live a rich life. A movie that takes place
in Australia is going to mean a lot more, give him a lot more than an
informational book on Australia. It's not going to feel or look like
school learning! *After* the movie, he *might* find the book
interesting and suck *some* information -- the parts that build on
what fascinated him or new stuff that catches his interest -- from
it. But even better Google the parts that captivated him and see if
there's more interesting things. (Or *you* Google them and pass it
on.) Keep a wall map up. Get a globe. Show him where the places are.
If he's interested, show him more. Use him as a barometer of how much
he wants. Once his brain is wandering off to the next thing, he's
stopped learning and you're wasting time for both of you and
potentially damaging his interest.
Show him things because you think they're interesting -- as you might
to a friend -- not because you think it's important to get the
information into him. It's not going to go in a stick until he has a
need for it. And the need comes from living a rich life. Do things
that interest him, run things by him you think will interest him
(*not* because you think they'll be good for him) and he'll pull more
about them inside because he'll want to know more.
> I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speechMany unschooled kids read between 6 and 8. Lots -- and I do mean lots
> therapy there also.
-- of average unschooled kids are not reading by 8. 10 is not
unusual. 12 is not unusual. You're asking him to do more than the
average unschooled kids are doing.
Read here:
http://sandradodd.com/reading
and
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com (down the left hand side are some pages
on reading)
While many educators and professionals will be quick to tell you that
a child needs reading intervention, they *don't* know that is true.
They have *never* encountered a child who has no agenda to meet, who
is allowed to read when they're developmentally able and want to.
They have *zero* experience. (That can't be emphasized enough! They
*aren't* experts in how kids naturally read.) What they do know is
that in the artificial world of school where educators need kids to
read independently by 4th grade, that an 8 yo who is not reading "up
to speed" is going to have problems. The problems aren't natural.
They're created by school.
We have lots of kids who weren't reading by "4th grade" who, by the
time they leave home, are reading in a way that's indistinguishable
from unschooled kids who read at 6. When reading kicks in, kids are
fairly quickly reading at age level. No lessons. No required reading.
All it takes is reading to them when they want, answering questions,
having things they want to read around them, living in a print rich
environment.
> I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 whereYou say you put him. Are these classes that he freely chose? Could he
> he takes spanish, science and art classes.
have said no thanks? Could he have chosen to take no classes if none
appealed to him? Could he drop out if they weren't meeting what he
felt *his* needs are?
If not, think about how much you'd get out of a class on Medieval
Turkish Law if your husband made you go.
> I just want to know if I amIt's the "hanging out" where his most profound learning will happen.
> doing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hanging
> out all the time.
You're actually interfering with the learning that's natural to
humans by imposing processes that ease your fears but are very
inefficient ways to learn.
By "hanging out" I don't mean releasing him into the house and
letting him amuse himself. I mean stepping back when he's involved,
running interesting things through his life, getting enough involved
in the things he's interested in to have conversations about them,
helping him explore his interests even further with related items
(but let him be the judge of how much or how deep or even if).
> Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needsIn terms of the two of you, yes, it's just you. In terms of all
> spelling and math workbooks or something.
adults, it's most every adult who went through school and managed to
convince themselves that all that hard work had to be for some benefit.
It is hard to let go of the old model. If you've only known
"swimming" by holding onto the side and touching bottom, then letting
go in the deep water will seem like an impossibility. The only skills
you have are hold on and touch bottom which are useless away from the
sides and the bottom! Unschooling is letting go of the sides and
bottom. It takes a while to figure out what to put in place of those
two. And for a while nothing you do feels as right or comforting. It
feels like you're about to drown! But once you catch on to what we do
instead of instruction and workbooks, then you'll understand. :-) It
will be and feel more natural -- and more interesting! -- than
holding onto the sides and standing in the water. But like swimming,
it's something that is best understood by seeing it done successfully
and -- even more importantly -- by doing it yourself.
Read the archives here. Search for your big fears and you'll see
posts from others with the same fears.
Read Sandra Dodd's site and my site. Follow links. There's a lifetime
of reading there ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betj
There is a cartoon (forget the name) where the main character is a little boy with a book, "The Great Big Book of Everything". I started one for my son once (when he couldn't navigate the web well) and when he asked something, like "where do salamanders live?", I'd find it (or we would together) and print it and put it in the binder. The cool thing is it was fun and could serve to show the state and negative friends and family what is being learned by choice!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:36:26
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:36:26
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
On Jan 22, 2009, at 7:36 PM, Pamela wrote:
> My friends are homeschoolers who keep
> reminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school work
> bla bla bla..
Specifics of what the law says and how it can be interpreted are more
for state and local lists. But in general, unschooling happens in
every state. There isn't any state that says you need to do 4 hours
of *seat* work. People who are afraid (whether it be of the laws or
of providing the education they think their child needs) will
interpret the laws strictly so they can do it "right".
In MA we need to provide an equivalent number of hours. A nervous
person might interpret that as 6 hours of school work. But it just
means we need to spend those hours learning. And anything they're
involved with is learning. A movie is learning. A video game is
(profound!) learning. Reading. Drawing. Talking. Shopping. It's *all*
learning.
> How do you insure your child can
> SPELL correctly
By trusting that spelling well has it's own intrinsic value. When
they are old enough to want to communicate their ideas, they will
have tried to read enough of others' creative spelling, will have
built up what they think of others who spell well and don't spell
well, that they'll want to.
The best tool is an automatic spellchecker so they can see misspelled
words (like it just told me that mispelled was wrong ;-) and can
choose to correct them *or not* depending on whether *they* feel it's
worth it for the context they're writing in.
At 8 I'd be hugely surprised if he's not spelling a lot of words
creatively. I don't think my daughter (now 17 and quite proficient at
spelling) started writing enough and caring enough until she was 14
or so.
> knows govt and geography if you do not do much in a
> book?
Because what's found in a book is an artificial summary with the life
sucked out of it. That's not how humans are hardwired to learn. We
learn by doing and using and thinking about what we take in. While
textbooks give us the illusion that all the important knowledge is
there, how much is taken in? If we don't want the information, if the
information isn't interesting, passing it in front of the student
gives the teacher the justification to say "I did my part" and blame
the student if it doesn't stick.
If you're vaguely familiar with the program Are You Smarter Than a
5th Grader? it takes on new meaning if you realize that everyone
older than 5th grade is a *former* 5th grader. If they *aren't*
smarter than they used to be, then there's something wrong. It means
the 5th grade information may be present in 5th grade but it doesn't
stick. And it means their definition of smart isn't very useful. A
better title might be "How Much of the Information They Tried to Pack
into You in the 5th Grade Actually Stuck?"
So what do you do instead? Live a rich life. A movie that takes place
in Australia is going to mean a lot more, give him a lot more than an
informational book on Australia. It's not going to feel or look like
school learning! *After* the movie, he *might* find the book
interesting and suck *some* information -- the parts that build on
what fascinated him or new stuff that catches his interest -- from
it. But even better Google the parts that captivated him and see if
there's more interesting things. (Or *you* Google them and pass it
on.) Keep a wall map up. Get a globe. Show him where the places are.
If he's interested, show him more. Use him as a barometer of how much
he wants. Once his brain is wandering off to the next thing, he's
stopped learning and you're wasting time for both of you and
potentially damaging his interest.
Show him things because you think they're interesting -- as you might
to a friend -- not because you think it's important to get the
information into him. It's not going to go in a stick until he has a
need for it. And the need comes from living a rich life. Do things
that interest him, run things by him you think will interest him
(*not* because you think they'll be good for him) and he'll pull more
about them inside because he'll want to know more.
> I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speech
> therapy there also.
Many unschooled kids read between 6 and 8. Lots -- and I do mean lots
-- of average unschooled kids are not reading by 8. 10 is not
unusual. 12 is not unusual. You're asking him to do more than the
average unschooled kids are doing.
Read here:
http://sandradodd.com/reading
and
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com (down the left hand side are some pages
on reading)
While many educators and professionals will be quick to tell you that
a child needs reading intervention, they *don't* know that is true.
They have *never* encountered a child who has no agenda to meet, who
is allowed to read when they're developmentally able and want to.
They have *zero* experience. (That can't be emphasized enough! They
*aren't* experts in how kids naturally read.) What they do know is
that in the artificial world of school where educators need kids to
read independently by 4th grade, that an 8 yo who is not reading "up
to speed" is going to have problems. The problems aren't natural.
They're created by school.
We have lots of kids who weren't reading by "4th grade" who, by the
time they leave home, are reading in a way that's indistinguishable
from unschooled kids who read at 6. When reading kicks in, kids are
fairly quickly reading at age level. No lessons. No required reading.
All it takes is reading to them when they want, answering questions,
having things they want to read around them, living in a print rich
environment.
> I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 where
> he takes spanish, science and art classes.
You say you put him. Are these classes that he freely chose? Could he
have said no thanks? Could he have chosen to take no classes if none
appealed to him? Could he drop out if they weren't meeting what he
felt *his* needs are?
If not, think about how much you'd get out of a class on Medieval
Turkish Law if your husband made you go.
> I just want to know if I am
> doing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hanging
> out all the time.
It's the "hanging out" where his most profound learning will happen.
You're actually interfering with the learning that's natural to
humans by imposing processes that ease your fears but are very
inefficient ways to learn.
By "hanging out" I don't mean releasing him into the house and
letting him amuse himself. I mean stepping back when he's involved,
running interesting things through his life, getting enough involved
in the things he's interested in to have conversations about them,
helping him explore his interests even further with related items
(but let him be the judge of how much or how deep or even if).
> Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needs
> spelling and math workbooks or something.
In terms of the two of you, yes, it's just you. In terms of all
adults, it's most every adult who went through school and managed to
convince themselves that all that hard work had to be for some benefit.
It is hard to let go of the old model. If you've only known
"swimming" by holding onto the side and touching bottom, then letting
go in the deep water will seem like an impossibility. The only skills
you have are hold on and touch bottom which are useless away from the
sides and the bottom! Unschooling is letting go of the sides and
bottom. It takes a while to figure out what to put in place of those
two. And for a while nothing you do feels as right or comforting. It
feels like you're about to drown! But once you catch on to what we do
instead of instruction and workbooks, then you'll understand. :-) It
will be and feel more natural -- and more interesting! -- than
holding onto the sides and standing in the water. But like swimming,
it's something that is best understood by seeing it done successfully
and -- even more importantly -- by doing it yourself.
Read the archives here. Search for your big fears and you'll see
posts from others with the same fears.
Read Sandra Dodd's site and my site. Follow links. There's a lifetime
of reading there ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
You're actually interfering with the learning that's natural to
humans by imposing processes that ease your fears but are very
inefficient ways to learn.
By "hanging out" I don't mean releasing him into the house and
letting him amuse himself. I mean stepping back when he's involved,
running interesting things through his life, getting enough involved
in the things he's interested in to have conversations about them,
helping him explore his interests even further with related items
(but let him be the judge of how much or how deep or even if).
*******************************************************************************
I can't stress HOW important this is---and not just for children!
For any of you contemplating going to one of dozens of unschooling conferences or gatherings across the country and Canada this year, there will be plenty of amazing speakers there. Several are on this and other lists. You will be impressed by them and their children. You'll have a great time at funshops, learning new fun things to do.
But the most PROFOUND (I like that, Joyce!) learning about unschooling will be in the "hanging out."
No joke!
The hour you spend in a hallway with another parent while your toddler chases another toddler----or in the dining room having breakfast with another family----or watching the crowd explode into applause at one-ball juggling by a five year old----or just watching a "seasoned" unschooling family interact in the elevator---THOSE will be the memories you'll take home. That "hanging out" will be what makes such a difference in your lives.
Never underestimate the value of "hanging out." We learn a lot by observing and thinking and day-dreaming and chatting---just "hanging out."
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
> I just want to know if I amIt's the "hanging out" where his most profound learning will happen.
> doing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hanging
> out all the time.
You're actually interfering with the learning that's natural to
humans by imposing processes that ease your fears but are very
inefficient ways to learn.
By "hanging out" I don't mean releasing him into the house and
letting him amuse himself. I mean stepping back when he's involved,
running interesting things through his life, getting enough involved
in the things he's interested in to have conversations about them,
helping him explore his interests even further with related items
(but let him be the judge of how much or how deep or even if).
*******************************************************************************
I can't stress HOW important this is---and not just for children!
For any of you contemplating going to one of dozens of unschooling conferences or gatherings across the country and Canada this year, there will be plenty of amazing speakers there. Several are on this and other lists. You will be impressed by them and their children. You'll have a great time at funshops, learning new fun things to do.
But the most PROFOUND (I like that, Joyce!) learning about unschooling will be in the "hanging out."
No joke!
The hour you spend in a hallway with another parent while your toddler chases another toddler----or in the dining room having breakfast with another family----or watching the crowd explode into applause at one-ball juggling by a five year old----or just watching a "seasoned" unschooling family interact in the elevator---THOSE will be the memories you'll take home. That "hanging out" will be what makes such a difference in your lives.
Never underestimate the value of "hanging out." We learn a lot by observing and thinking and day-dreaming and chatting---just "hanging out."
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela <ohwhatacruise@...>
My friends are homeschoolers who keep
reminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school work
bla bla bla..
-=-=-=-=-
What state are you in? Maybe we could shed some light on the law. Make sure your friends are right.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met in
many ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long and
follow orders. So he is home with me.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
How many eight year olds SHOULD be sitting in a desk all day?
None! <g>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child can
SPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in a
book?
-=-=-===-=-
I'm not worried that my children won't be able to spell correctly. When they need to know how to spell a word, they ask me. I tell them how to spell it. Sometimes, they use spell-check. Duncan, 12, seems to be making all sorts of spelling connections lately. He's turned all his letters around the right way just recently too! <g>
Government? My lord---these last two years have been government RICH! We've had more conversations about elections and rights and branches of government---I mean....how could you AVOID it??? No books. Just TV and google and discussions.
Geography? We GO. My 21 year old (today!!!<g>) was born in Germany, visited there
by himself again at 12, has lived in the midwest and south, visits the NE a LOT, and the NW when he can. We've all been to NM and AZ (Grand Canyon). He's been---withOUT us to Australia, Scotland & England, the Yukon, and Mexico. He's heading to CA this August to backpack. None of us has been to Ohio...yet. <g> We're leaving next Sunday for a week there. Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, here we come! <G>
My friend, Bruce, was the first child of divorce I knew (1970). His father was a geographer. Every summer, Bruce's dad took Bruce and his little brother on his trips with him. Bruce new all the state capitals by the time he was 12 because he had BEEN to each one! By 14, he had been to half the African ones, and all the European ones. It wasn't that he could "recite" the capitals---although he *could*---it was that he had BEEN there: he'd smelled, touched, tasted them. He could tell you stories of the people he'd met, the strange things he'd eaten, the weird (to us) architecture and clothing.
You don't learn about the world in a book. I believe in travel.
-=-=-=-==-
I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speech
therapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction and
he loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 where
he takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I am
doing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hanging
out all the tim
e. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needs
spelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to do
anything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is not
getting enough education?
-==-=-=-=-=-
Can you tell me your definitions of "learning" and "education"?
'Cause what I'm reading about above is a lot of *teaching*---not necessarily *learning*.
What do *you* do with him?
What is he passionate about? What does he love to do? What moooves him?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
http://www.SchoolsOutSupport.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Pamela <ohwhatacruise@...>
My friends are homeschoolers who keep
reminding me that the LAW says you have to do 4 hours of school work
bla bla bla..
-=-=-=-=-
What state are you in? Maybe we could shed some light on the law. Make sure your friends are right.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Well he is smarter than any 8 yr old I have ever met in
many ways. He is however not able to sit in a desk all day long and
follow orders. So he is home with me.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
How many eight year olds SHOULD be sitting in a desk all day?
None! <g>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My question to those in this group. How do you insure your child can
SPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in a
book?
-=-=-===-=-
I'm not worried that my children won't be able to spell correctly. When they need to know how to spell a word, they ask me. I tell them how to spell it. Sometimes, they use spell-check. Duncan, 12, seems to be making all sorts of spelling connections lately. He's turned all his letters around the right way just recently too! <g>
Government? My lord---these last two years have been government RICH! We've had more conversations about elections and rights and branches of government---I mean....how could you AVOID it??? No books. Just TV and google and discussions.
Geography? We GO. My 21 year old (today!!!<g>) was born in Germany, visited there
by himself again at 12, has lived in the midwest and south, visits the NE a LOT, and the NW when he can. We've all been to NM and AZ (Grand Canyon). He's been---withOUT us to Australia, Scotland & England, the Yukon, and Mexico. He's heading to CA this August to backpack. None of us has been to Ohio...yet. <g> We're leaving next Sunday for a week there. Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, here we come! <G>
My friend, Bruce, was the first child of divorce I knew (1970). His father was a geographer. Every summer, Bruce's dad took Bruce and his little brother on his trips with him. Bruce new all the state capitals by the time he was 12 because he had BEEN to each one! By 14, he had been to half the African ones, and all the European ones. It wasn't that he could "recite" the capitals---although he *could*---it was that he had BEEN there: he'd smelled, touched, tasted them. He could tell you stories of the people he'd met, the strange things he'd eaten, the weird (to us) architecture and clothing.
You don't learn about the world in a book. I believe in travel.
-=-=-=-==-
I take my son to reading tutoring at a local College and speech
therapy there also. So 4 days he has an hour of 1 on 1 instruction and
he loves that. I also put him in a Homeschool Co Op on Weds 9-12 where
he takes spanish, science and art classes. I just want to know if I am
doing enough to insure he is actually learning and not just hanging
out all the tim
e. Maybe it is just me? I just sort of feel he needs
spelling and math workbooks or something. It is HARD to get him to do
anything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is not
getting enough education?
-==-=-=-=-=-
Can you tell me your definitions of "learning" and "education"?
'Cause what I'm reading about above is a lot of *teaching*---not necessarily *learning*.
What do *you* do with him?
What is he passionate about? What does he love to do? What moooves him?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
http://www.SchoolsOutSupport.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
homeschool mom
spelling strategies
one strategy that works for us is to have the child close their eyes and try to remember what the word looked like when they read it in a book. It takes a little while for them to fully incorporate this in their daily spelling (at least for us) but once my kids started tapping into this idea, they quickly began to pick up their spelling. In the meantime, I always told them how to spell it...then reminded them to look at the word and remember what it looks like.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
one strategy that works for us is to have the child close their eyes and try to remember what the word looked like when they read it in a book. It takes a little while for them to fully incorporate this in their daily spelling (at least for us) but once my kids started tapping into this idea, they quickly began to pick up their spelling. In the meantime, I always told them how to spell it...then reminded them to look at the word and remember what it looks like.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Pamela <ohwhatacruise@...> wrote:
words. By the time she was 9 she just put regular spacing between words but
still no punctuation and still creative spelling though much more easily
read. Around 10 she started to write with passion. She started her first
novel at 10, she is 12 and still writing various novels. They are getting
longer and longer. She began rudimentary punctuation and found the spell
checker helpful. She rarely asks me to spell for her anymore (she's 12). Her
writing is not only intelligible but interesting to read. It has been a
thrill as a parent to watch this amazing progression. To be there for her to
help her spell words and show her how to make her writing make sense to
other people. One day she wanted an editor so she asked her papa. They
researched all the special code you write on manuscripts and he corrected
her writing (at her behest). They talked about grammar and punctuation and
coherency. They talked for days on and off. She learned years worth of
school "language arts" in a few conversations over a couple days when *she*
was ready for it. She sucked the information right up.
As for geography, her and two friends (11 and 12) are planning their first
cross country road trip for when they can drive. they are frequently on the
internet together planning their journey. They have compiled maps of the US
and charted and re-charted their trip. They have researched each stated
individually to discover what might be interesting in each state and where
it is in relation to the other areas of interest. They are passionate about
it. It is what they talk about. Also my daughter has been to every state
east of the Mississippi river (and to the Mississippi river). She has
explore mountains and caves and rivers and oceans.
She understands now from living in a schooled world that many people break
life up into school subjects but that doesn't really affect her. She just
lives her life. She isn't hung up about "learning" grammar she just wanted
to have the best writing possible. She isn't hung up about learning about
the US, she just wants to travel and see things. They have begun discussing
European and African travel as well.. Because she wants to do this things
and they anre important to *her* she find the information she learnes what
she needs to know to create a fullfilling life for herself.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> How do you insure your child can***At 7 my dd put exclamation points between all her creatively spelled
> SPELL correctly, knows govt and geography if you do not do much in a
> book?
>
words. By the time she was 9 she just put regular spacing between words but
still no punctuation and still creative spelling though much more easily
read. Around 10 she started to write with passion. She started her first
novel at 10, she is 12 and still writing various novels. They are getting
longer and longer. She began rudimentary punctuation and found the spell
checker helpful. She rarely asks me to spell for her anymore (she's 12). Her
writing is not only intelligible but interesting to read. It has been a
thrill as a parent to watch this amazing progression. To be there for her to
help her spell words and show her how to make her writing make sense to
other people. One day she wanted an editor so she asked her papa. They
researched all the special code you write on manuscripts and he corrected
her writing (at her behest). They talked about grammar and punctuation and
coherency. They talked for days on and off. She learned years worth of
school "language arts" in a few conversations over a couple days when *she*
was ready for it. She sucked the information right up.
As for geography, her and two friends (11 and 12) are planning their first
cross country road trip for when they can drive. they are frequently on the
internet together planning their journey. They have compiled maps of the US
and charted and re-charted their trip. They have researched each stated
individually to discover what might be interesting in each state and where
it is in relation to the other areas of interest. They are passionate about
it. It is what they talk about. Also my daughter has been to every state
east of the Mississippi river (and to the Mississippi river). She has
explore mountains and caves and rivers and oceans.
She understands now from living in a schooled world that many people break
life up into school subjects but that doesn't really affect her. She just
lives her life. She isn't hung up about "learning" grammar she just wanted
to have the best writing possible. She isn't hung up about learning about
the US, she just wants to travel and see things. They have begun discussing
European and African travel as well.. Because she wants to do this things
and they anre important to *her* she find the information she learnes what
she needs to know to create a fullfilling life for herself.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Nishan
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
breakfast with another family----or watching the crowd explode into
applause at one-ball juggling by a five year old----or just watching
a "seasoned" unschooling family interact in the elevator---THOSE
will be the memories you'll take home. That "hanging out" will be
what makes such a difference in your lives.
out."
out there a whole lot at the Northeast conference last year but I
did take a tiny step out of my comfort zone. Taking the time to
talk with people (especially you Kelly) really made a difference to
me. Since the conference I have been writing more and LIVING more.
Now I can't wait until this years conference and I will definitely
be more comfortable being myself.
Kelly
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>toddler chases another toddler----or in the dining room having
>
> The hour you spend in a hallway with another parent while your
breakfast with another family----or watching the crowd explode into
applause at one-ball juggling by a five year old----or just watching
a "seasoned" unschooling family interact in the elevator---THOSE
will be the memories you'll take home. That "hanging out" will be
what makes such a difference in your lives.
>observing and thinking and day-dreaming and chatting---just "hanging
>
> Never underestimate the value of "hanging out." We learn a lot by
out."
>ABSOLUTELY!! I'm not big with the mingling so I didn't put myself
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
out there a whole lot at the Northeast conference last year but I
did take a tiny step out of my comfort zone. Taking the time to
talk with people (especially you Kelly) really made a difference to
me. Since the conference I have been writing more and LIVING more.
Now I can't wait until this years conference and I will definitely
be more comfortable being myself.
Kelly
Pamela Sorooshian
>> How do you insure your child canYou can't insure it.
>> SPELL correctly
I have three grown kids - two of them spelled well from the beginning,
picked it up right along with reading and writing. The third had in
interesting, but not terribly uncommon, problem with spelling. She
could read well and read a lot, but she couldn't spell even simple
words. She would, for example, write "TEH" or "HTE" or "EHT" or "THE"
all equally often for the word "THE." In one sentence she might write
it two different ways. Sometimes she would add letters. So she might
write "TNEH" for "THE." What she wrote was very often completely
unreadable - even she couldn't read what she'd written. She was
frustrated by it - she was a voracious reader and both of her older
sisters were writers and she wanted to write, too. I read a little
book called something like "My Kid Can't Spell" - it gave ideas for
coping with not being good at spelling. As I gave her various ideas to
deal with it, we noticed that she could recognize the correctly
spelled word in a list, even though she couldn't come up with it on
her own. So if I gave her a list: "TEH" "HTE" "THE" - she could
quickly say which one was correct. She knew it when she saw it
written. Reading up on it, I came to realize that she had a little
missing step in her brain processing - she didn't "visualize" the word
on the blackboard of her brain before writing it down. She just
remembered which letters were in the word. This was especially
interesting since she had learned to read in a way that was very
different than my other kids - she'd memorized lots and lots of words,
recognized the entire word, did not sound out words at all for a very
long time.
There wasn't anything much she could do about it. This was her brain's
way of working. She used various coping strategies - lots of asking
someone "How do you spell...." and lots of times she'd write a word in
as many ways as she could think of, then look at her own list and
discover she'd included the correct one in the list. But, it was sort
of slow and annoying and it held her back from writing, which she
really wanted to do. She was frustrated.
Then she was a young teenager and started IMing with friends online a
lot. I know there was a period of a little frustration when her
friends couldn't read what she wrote. They'd respond, "Huh?" and she'd
rewrite. But she was lucky enough to have a lot of online unschooled/
homeschooled very tolerant friends. Nobody made fun of her, nobody
even commented on her poor spelling. They didn't think less of her. It
was just "her." And, lo and behold, over a few years her spelling
improved. That was, to be honest, a bit unexpected - I'd come to
believe she had a "spelling disability" that wasn't going to go away.
I hadn't told her that - we'd just treated it like anything else -
something that she hadn't developed into yet. I commiserated with her
in her frustration and helped her cope, but "I" secretly had thought
she probably wouldn't ever get it.
Boy, was I wrong. She did get it, in her own way and in her own time.
By 16 years old she was doing pretty well at spelling. She'll be 18
next week and she's a fantastic speller - no problems at all even with
quite complicated words.
She's written several novels and screenplays (NaNoWriMo and
ScriptFrenzy) and she's in college and writes papers in and out of
class. No problem.
Makes me wonder about those smart adults whose spelling is poor. I've
known a number of them. I wonder if they would have become better at
spelling if they'd been accepted they way they were and supported in
finding ways to handle the way they actually spelled, rather than
having been drilled and remediated and graded down for years.
-pam
Ren Allen
--- In [email protected], "homeschool mom"
<homeschoolmom@...> wrote:
book.
That's a strategy that MAY work for some and not at all for others. I
think most people naturally come up with their own strategies, though
sharing what worked for us personally might be helpful if a child
wants to know.
I worry that when parents are trying to come up with "strategies"
there is some need to make sure the child knows x,y,z, rather than
trusting their own process.
The "remember what the word looks like" might be fine for someone more
visual....could very well lead to frustration for others.
Ren
<homeschoolmom@...> wrote:
>and try to remember what the word looked like when they read it in a
> spelling strategies
>
> one strategy that works for us is to have the child close their eyes
book.
That's a strategy that MAY work for some and not at all for others. I
think most people naturally come up with their own strategies, though
sharing what worked for us personally might be helpful if a child
wants to know.
I worry that when parents are trying to come up with "strategies"
there is some need to make sure the child knows x,y,z, rather than
trusting their own process.
The "remember what the word looks like" might be fine for someone more
visual....could very well lead to frustration for others.
Ren
Ren Allen
~~How do you insure your child can
But you can work the odds in your favor. Drilling or using strategies
to teach someone will very often turn that person off to the very
thing you're hoping they'll learn.
The bigger question is "How do you insure your child is a passionate
learner?" don't you think?
I see the big picture. Spelling is a paltry skill, nothing amazing.
Those that can't spell can use spell-check for crying out loud! What
are the greater things in life?
Compassion, passion, curiosity, joy perhaps? If so, then how do we
insure the greatest chance for success with those skills? Not by
worrying about spelling.
Ren
>> SPELL correctly~~You can't insure much of anything in life. It's largely a crapshoot.
But you can work the odds in your favor. Drilling or using strategies
to teach someone will very often turn that person off to the very
thing you're hoping they'll learn.
The bigger question is "How do you insure your child is a passionate
learner?" don't you think?
I see the big picture. Spelling is a paltry skill, nothing amazing.
Those that can't spell can use spell-check for crying out loud! What
are the greater things in life?
Compassion, passion, curiosity, joy perhaps? If so, then how do we
insure the greatest chance for success with those skills? Not by
worrying about spelling.
Ren
Ren Allen
~~Makes me wonder about those smart adults whose spelling is poor. I've
known a number of them. I wonder if they would have become better at
spelling if they'd been accepted they way they were and supported in
finding ways to handle the way they actually spelled, rather than
having been drilled and remediated and graded down for years.~~
Yeah, and if spelling was so all-important,then people who know
several languages are at a disadvantage. The designer I'm working with
knows five languages. His English spelling is quite amusing at times.
Has it interfered with his success in this country? Not a bit.
Ren
known a number of them. I wonder if they would have become better at
spelling if they'd been accepted they way they were and supported in
finding ways to handle the way they actually spelled, rather than
having been drilled and remediated and graded down for years.~~
Yeah, and if spelling was so all-important,then people who know
several languages are at a disadvantage. The designer I'm working with
knows five languages. His English spelling is quite amusing at times.
Has it interfered with his success in this country? Not a bit.
Ren
Pamela Sorooshian
>> knows govt and geography if you do not do much in aMy kids (24, 21, and 17) and my husband and I all watched West Wing
>> book?
for years - eventually bought the entire series on DVD and have
watched and watched and watched and talked and talked and talked about
it. The characters in West Wing are like our good friends - Josh,
Donna, Toby, Sam, .... all are our buddies! <G>
When this election started up, my kids already knew so much about
politics from watching West Wing that they could easily get caught up
in the election process. They watched all the debates and analyzed
them. Also watched The Daily Show and The Colbert Report and Saturday
Night Live and other comedy and talk shows - got all the jokes because
they were keeping up with the election coverage. Rosie volunteered to
work as a poll worker - went to a long training - learned everything
about how the voting is actually carried out and worked from 6 am to 9
pm at a polling place on election day. They also got interested in all
the propositions. My kids have a lot of gay friends and they were
strongly against the California Proposition 8 anti-gay marriage
campaign - got involved in that and came to understand the proposition
system we have in California and also how the court had made same-sex
marriage legal, etc. When Obama began announcing his cabinet
appointments, they followed that closely and looked up information on
many of them - mostly to make fascinating comparisons to characters on
West Wing! <G> Rosie is especially interested in politics and she
decided to take a Political Science course at the community college
this semester. Just for fun. (But, oh the irony!!! She was IN her
political science class when Obama was being inaugurated and they
didn't watch it in class - too much to cover, couldn't take the time
from the scheduled lectures. Aargh.) The way the Obama campaign used
the internet really helped inform and draw in young people - the
campaign was absolutely masterful at providing just the right amount
of information in a format that really worked for the teens and young
adults.
Kids don't need to be taught about government and politics, these days
especially!
Not all kids are going to be super interested, though - some will pick
up the basic idea and be satisfied with that. That's okay, too. Better
that they should be supported and encouraged to pursue their own
natural interests than be forced to learn about something that doesn't
interest them much.
About geography - this is not something that is well-suited to
learning from books, anyway. In terms of creating a rich and
stimulating environment - having maps and a globe around is a really
good idea. We've always had a globe sitting around the living room and
we've had various maps taped up to walls and doors - different ones
over the years. Also, be a curious person - when you're watching tv
and someone mentions a place, you can wonder aloud, "Where IS that?"
and grab the globe (or google if you're sitting with your laptop as we
usually are). Lots of times somebody googles something and scan
quickly and maybe toss out a tidbit of some interesting factoid about
the place. "Did you know that...?"
Anyway, in today's small world, geography is easy to "just pick up"
naturally, given that parents are interested and interesting (love
that expression). Some unschoolers travel a lot - some are homebodies.
But even homebodies can be armchair travelers, and television brings
the world into our living rooms in an often spectacular way. I mean,
anybody watching "Man versus Wild" or "Survivor Man" knows what I mean
<G>.
-pam
da Slinky
> How do you insure your child canI have run a forum for people who are no younger then 13 for over a decade. Most of these people have gone to school and the vast majority have graduated high school. The writing is often horrible. In fact the people who are not English as a first language writers are ALL better spellers and writers then the English as a first language people. Most the younger people can't even be bothered to type full words like you prefering u instead yet few of them understand the U R N X song........
> SPELL correctly
This tells me that 1. you can get along in the real world just fine without good English skills should you so choose. After all from what I have seen a good 75 to 80% of high school graduates have the same or worse spelling skills as my my oldest when we took her out of the 4th grade. 2. Schools are doing a horrifying job of teaching children spelling. 3. learning English because you want to communicate with other like minded people produces people who have excellent spelling and grammar. At least from what I have seen. 4. they might be giants sings about everything! I love them they are like a main educational staple in our house. 5. those who love language have the best spelling and writing. 6. most people who graduated highschool hate the english language or just dont care. I know I hated the english language by then.
In fact this list has far better spelling and grammer then most lists I have been on and no one crusifys anyone for it like they do in many other places. So my point is they will learn spelling and good writing by spelling and writing and reading and caring about what they write.
There are TONS of writing resources out there now days. I love the between the lions show. All sorts of games that involve writing and reading and games where you find the words or unscramble them or have to figure out the order they are suppose to be in are found in tons of video games. There is also boggle and jr boggle and cross words and word searches and book writing contests and pen pals and lists for the store and notes passed under doors and poetry contests and diaries or journals and blogs and forums and chatting and books and the list goes on and on and on.
Did you know that a % of highschool graduates can't read? I frankly am compleatly shocked that there are highschool graduates who can't read I mean they had 18 years of reading and writing shoved down their throats and it did not take.... I mean seriously how do you get to be an adult without being able to read on at least a minimal level much less graduate highchool; societies end all be all of edumacation?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Pamela"
<ohwhatacruise@...> wrote:
other impressed him in some movie or other. He spent hours
researching Ireland on the computer. Then he was over it. He has
friends all across the US, so he has at least as much of a grasp of
US geography as any other kid his age. Actually, given that we live
in a small town in TN, probably better than most of the kids in the
area, whose knowledge of geography mostly stops at the county line.
Mo's interested in big cats, so that leads her to learning about
geography - where do jaguars live as opposed to leopards, for
example? Where do tigers live? She's also interested in China - today
we spent an hour looking through a craft store for anything that
looked "Chinese" to her. She just adores the fact that so many things
are Made in China! How wonderful!
Government is something that comes up in daily life. Why do we need
liscense plates on cars? Why do we write a note for Ray if he wants
to go somewhere during "school hours"? Why do I have to wear shoes in
the store? What are taxes and what happens if you don't pay them?
Does jail really exist? What's it For? Kids ask questions about the
world - and the actions of government, large and small, are part of
the world.
had any kind of "schooling" though. My 7yo thinks of workbooks
like "coloring and activity books". My 15yo thinks they are horrible
things, designed to bore kids into submission. Guess which one went
to school? ;)
There is nothing in the world that workbooks offer that can't be
found elsewhere. If you have a kid who doesn't take well to "seat
work" anyway, workbooks are probably the worst way for him to try to
learn anything. Do you know about the theory of Mulitple
Intelligences? It might help you think about how learning happens
best for your guy:
http://www.newhorizons.org/strategies/mi/dickinson_mi.html
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<ohwhatacruise@...> wrote:
> How do you insure your child ... knows govt and geography if youdo not do much in a
> book?For awhile Ray was fascinated with Ireland - some Irish actor or
other impressed him in some movie or other. He spent hours
researching Ireland on the computer. Then he was over it. He has
friends all across the US, so he has at least as much of a grasp of
US geography as any other kid his age. Actually, given that we live
in a small town in TN, probably better than most of the kids in the
area, whose knowledge of geography mostly stops at the county line.
Mo's interested in big cats, so that leads her to learning about
geography - where do jaguars live as opposed to leopards, for
example? Where do tigers live? She's also interested in China - today
we spent an hour looking through a craft store for anything that
looked "Chinese" to her. She just adores the fact that so many things
are Made in China! How wonderful!
Government is something that comes up in daily life. Why do we need
liscense plates on cars? Why do we write a note for Ray if he wants
to go somewhere during "school hours"? Why do I have to wear shoes in
the store? What are taxes and what happens if you don't pay them?
Does jail really exist? What's it For? Kids ask questions about the
world - and the actions of government, large and small, are part of
the world.
>It is HARD to get him to doSome kids actually enjoy workbooks - most of those kids have never
> anything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is not
> getting enough education?
had any kind of "schooling" though. My 7yo thinks of workbooks
like "coloring and activity books". My 15yo thinks they are horrible
things, designed to bore kids into submission. Guess which one went
to school? ;)
There is nothing in the world that workbooks offer that can't be
found elsewhere. If you have a kid who doesn't take well to "seat
work" anyway, workbooks are probably the worst way for him to try to
learn anything. Do you know about the theory of Mulitple
Intelligences? It might help you think about how learning happens
best for your guy:
http://www.newhorizons.org/strategies/mi/dickinson_mi.html
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Kelly Lovejoy
We watch both. But we *much* prefer Survivor Man.
Les Stroud seems more at one with nature. BrrGrrls epitomizes "Man *VERSUS* Nature"---he seems to struggle *against* it the whole time.
Cameron wants to grow up to BE Les Stroud! <G>
Or Blake Boles. <G>
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
Some unschoolers travel a lot - some are homebodies.
But even homebodies can be armchair travelers, and television brings
the world into our living rooms in an often spectacular way. I mean,
anybody watching "Man versus Wild" or "Survivor Man" knows what I mean
<G>.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Les Stroud seems more at one with nature. BrrGrrls epitomizes "Man *VERSUS* Nature"---he seems to struggle *against* it the whole time.
Cameron wants to grow up to BE Les Stroud! <G>
Or Blake Boles. <G>
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
Some unschoolers travel a lot - some are homebodies.
But even homebodies can be armchair travelers, and television brings
the world into our living rooms in an often spectacular way. I mean,
anybody watching "Man versus Wild" or "Survivor Man" knows what I mean
<G>.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I think it is Alfie Kohn that says something about his wife being super intelligent and a doctor but could not spell.
oh here it is:
What Does It Mean to Be Well-Educated?
http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/welleducated.htm
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
oh here it is:
What Does It Mean to Be Well-Educated?
http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/welleducated.htm
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deanne Liner
Thanks everyone for the great insight into what I should look at as learning etc etc.. I just get drilled by family that he is not learning and maybe I should put him in private school etc, etc.
My son seems happy and is interested in boy things and doing things on a regular basis. I worry he is not learning enough when in reality he is a well rounded kid and WAY more intelligent than most 8 yr olds..I even got called into the schools Principal last year for him acting too old for his age, HE WAS 7...The schools form of punishing him was to have him READ to the kindergartners so he can feel older....as punishment..YEAH like that is going to make my son WANT to read when you say it is punishment... My son FLUNKED reading, Math, Language arts in 1&2 grade but they put him in 3rd anyway even though he was the youngest in the class..he was also the largest child in the room..He is a big kid 115 lbs at 8..wears a sz 6.5 shoe and sz 30 X 27 in Levi's...He looks 10-12 easily. I guess I am doing OK with him afterall. He is constantly amazing me with things he finds on the internet too. He printed the Cotton Bowl Football team info today..Funbrain.com
is his favorite site. I just need to observe him more and worry less I would say. LOL
Thank you all for the encouragement and info too, I needed that! :) Pam
My son seems happy and is interested in boy things and doing things on a regular basis. I worry he is not learning enough when in reality he is a well rounded kid and WAY more intelligent than most 8 yr olds..I even got called into the schools Principal last year for him acting too old for his age, HE WAS 7...The schools form of punishing him was to have him READ to the kindergartners so he can feel older....as punishment..YEAH like that is going to make my son WANT to read when you say it is punishment... My son FLUNKED reading, Math, Language arts in 1&2 grade but they put him in 3rd anyway even though he was the youngest in the class..he was also the largest child in the room..He is a big kid 115 lbs at 8..wears a sz 6.5 shoe and sz 30 X 27 in Levi's...He looks 10-12 easily. I guess I am doing OK with him afterall. He is constantly amazing me with things he finds on the internet too. He printed the Cotton Bowl Football team info today..Funbrain.com
is his favorite site. I just need to observe him more and worry less I would say. LOL
Thank you all for the encouragement and info too, I needed that! :) Pam
--- On Fri, 1/23/09, Meredith <meredith@...> wrote:
From: Meredith <meredith@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Thanks for the great info on this group!
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:33 PM
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "Pamela"
<ohwhatacruise@ ...> wrote:
> How do you insure your child ... knows govt and geography if you
do not do much in a
> book?
For awhile Ray was fascinated with Ireland - some Irish actor or
other impressed him in some movie or other. He spent hours
researching Ireland on the computer. Then he was over it. He has
friends all across the US, so he has at least as much of a grasp of
US geography as any other kid his age. Actually, given that we live
in a small town in TN, probably better than most of the kids in the
area, whose knowledge of geography mostly stops at the county line.
Mo's interested in big cats, so that leads her to learning about
geography - where do jaguars live as opposed to leopards, for
example? Where do tigers live? She's also interested in China - today
we spent an hour looking through a craft store for anything that
looked "Chinese" to her. She just adores the fact that so many things
are Made in China! How wonderful!
Government is something that comes up in daily life. Why do we need
liscense plates on cars? Why do we write a note for Ray if he wants
to go somewhere during "school hours"? Why do I have to wear shoes in
the store? What are taxes and what happens if you don't pay them?
Does jail really exist? What's it For? Kids ask questions about the
world - and the actions of government, large and small, are part of
the world.
>It is HARD to get him to do
> anything in a workbook believe me, but am I wrong to feel he is not
> getting enough education?
Some kids actually enjoy workbooks - most of those kids have never
had any kind of "schooling" though. My 7yo thinks of workbooks
like "coloring and activity books". My 15yo thinks they are horrible
things, designed to bore kids into submission. Guess which one went
to school? ;)
There is nothing in the world that workbooks offer that can't be
found elsewhere. If you have a kid who doesn't take well to "seat
work" anyway, workbooks are probably the worst way for him to try to
learn anything. Do you know about the theory of Mulitple
Intelligences? It might help you think about how learning happens
best for your guy:
http://www.newhoriz ons.org/strategi es/mi/dickinson_ mi.html
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I mean,
anybody watching "Man versus Wild" or "Survivor Man" knows what I mean
=-=-=-=-=
Yeah because some have a crush on Les Stroud..........and love geography and can spend hours on Google Earth!111111111
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
anybody watching "Man versus Wild" or "Survivor Man" knows what I mean
=-=-=-=-=
Yeah because some have a crush on Les Stroud..........and love geography and can spend hours on Google Earth!111111111
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deanne Liner
I do not have TV (no cable/Sat dish..) Guess I need to get that soon so I can see what all the fuss is about..lol Pam
--- On Fri, 1/23/09, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
From: BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 6:32 PM
I mean,
anybody watching "Man versus Wild" or "Survivor Man" knows what I mean
=-=-=-=-=
Yeah because some have a crush on Les Stroud... .......and love geography and can spend hours on Google Earth!111111111
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow. blogspot. com/
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/unschoolin gmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "homeschool mom"
<homeschoolmom@...> wrote:
In the meantime, I always told them how to spell it...then reminded
them to look at the word and remember what it looks like.
********************
It can be really valuable to share tricks for how you remember and
organize information. From a radical unschooling perspective, its
important to share this kind of information the same way you'd do it
with an adult friend, with the understanding that they'll take it or
leave it. Different people learn and remember and process
differently, after all.
This next is going to sound nit-picky, so bear with me a little.
Unschooling is all about the relationships your foster with your kids:
***************
I don't find it helpful to "have" my kids do things. I'm older, sure,
and have more experience, but its *my* experience of the way my brain
and body work and my life has unfolded. However much my kids are like
me, they aren't me. They're going to do and learn and experience
things their own ways. I put a lot of time and energy into observing
my kids and trying to understand how they go about doing and learning
and experiencing, but when all's said and sifted, I can never be the
expert on them that they can be. That's one of my goals as an
unschooling parent - to help my kids to be their own best experts on
themselves.
When I offer one of my kids a strategy, its an offer. Its something
they can try if they want, maybe never, maybe later. Ray, in
particular, hates to try something new with an audience. He'll go off
on his own to try something the first couple times. Years ago, when
we were homeschooling, I'd coax him to trying whatever (close your
eyes and imagine, for example) right there in front of me. It wasn't
helpful to him. He'd get all wound up in "having" to do it, and that
was all he'd get out of the experience - that he Had to. He'd Agree
with me that it was helpful, but then again, he thought that was
something he "had" to do, too. Learning not to coax helped our
relationship enormously. As our relationship improved, he started to
feel comfortable enough to try some of my suggestions.
These days, if Ray wants a suggestion, he'll ask for it. He and I
both know that he's more likely to find what works for Him without
too much of my help.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<homeschoolmom@...> wrote:
In the meantime, I always told them how to spell it...then reminded
them to look at the word and remember what it looks like.
********************
It can be really valuable to share tricks for how you remember and
organize information. From a radical unschooling perspective, its
important to share this kind of information the same way you'd do it
with an adult friend, with the understanding that they'll take it or
leave it. Different people learn and remember and process
differently, after all.
This next is going to sound nit-picky, so bear with me a little.
Unschooling is all about the relationships your foster with your kids:
> one strategy that works for us is to have the child close theireyes...
***************
I don't find it helpful to "have" my kids do things. I'm older, sure,
and have more experience, but its *my* experience of the way my brain
and body work and my life has unfolded. However much my kids are like
me, they aren't me. They're going to do and learn and experience
things their own ways. I put a lot of time and energy into observing
my kids and trying to understand how they go about doing and learning
and experiencing, but when all's said and sifted, I can never be the
expert on them that they can be. That's one of my goals as an
unschooling parent - to help my kids to be their own best experts on
themselves.
When I offer one of my kids a strategy, its an offer. Its something
they can try if they want, maybe never, maybe later. Ray, in
particular, hates to try something new with an audience. He'll go off
on his own to try something the first couple times. Years ago, when
we were homeschooling, I'd coax him to trying whatever (close your
eyes and imagine, for example) right there in front of me. It wasn't
helpful to him. He'd get all wound up in "having" to do it, and that
was all he'd get out of the experience - that he Had to. He'd Agree
with me that it was helpful, but then again, he thought that was
something he "had" to do, too. Learning not to coax helped our
relationship enormously. As our relationship improved, he started to
feel comfortable enough to try some of my suggestions.
These days, if Ray wants a suggestion, he'll ask for it. He and I
both know that he's more likely to find what works for Him without
too much of my help.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I do not have TV (no cable/Sat dish..) Guess I need to get that soon so I can see what all the fuss is about..lol Pam
-=-=-=-=-=-=
a little teaser for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaxASsiWQmI
and here is his site:
http://www.lesstroudonline.com/index.php
I told you I had a crush on him......even my husband knows....<g>
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-=-=-=-=-=
a little teaser for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaxASsiWQmI
and here is his site:
http://www.lesstroudonline.com/index.php
I told you I had a crush on him......even my husband knows....<g>
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
wrote:
can't read I mean they had 18 years of reading and writing shoved
down their throats and it did not take.... I mean seriously how do
you get to be an adult without being able to read on at least a
minimal level much less graduate highchool; societies end all be all
of edumacation?
*************************
I used to volunteer with an adult literacy program, so I know it
well! How it happens hinges on the fact that there are many ways to
learn things. People who don't read (and for the most part they do
read a little at the "sounding out" level, which isn't terribly
helpful for most reading) develop all sorts of marvelous strategies
for learning based on how they Really learn, as opposed to how
schools teach. But all the while their self esteem is a shambles.
Helping them see what and how they've learned over the years is an
important part of helping them learn to read using their own, very
real skills and strategies.
This ties back in to unschooling. Kids who have struggled with school
in the past have the same damage to their self confidence. They may
need a lot of reassurance and help seeing where their strengths lie.
Kids who have been unschooled from an early age, but don't read until
they're older may need a lot of moral support from parents - because
they can run into the same messages from schooled friends and
relatives that not-reading means something is wrong with them.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
wrote:
>> Did you know that a % of highschool graduates can't read? Ifrankly am compleatly shocked that there are highschool graduates who
can't read I mean they had 18 years of reading and writing shoved
down their throats and it did not take.... I mean seriously how do
you get to be an adult without being able to read on at least a
minimal level much less graduate highchool; societies end all be all
of edumacation?
*************************
I used to volunteer with an adult literacy program, so I know it
well! How it happens hinges on the fact that there are many ways to
learn things. People who don't read (and for the most part they do
read a little at the "sounding out" level, which isn't terribly
helpful for most reading) develop all sorts of marvelous strategies
for learning based on how they Really learn, as opposed to how
schools teach. But all the while their self esteem is a shambles.
Helping them see what and how they've learned over the years is an
important part of helping them learn to read using their own, very
real skills and strategies.
This ties back in to unschooling. Kids who have struggled with school
in the past have the same damage to their self confidence. They may
need a lot of reassurance and help seeing where their strengths lie.
Kids who have been unschooled from an early age, but don't read until
they're older may need a lot of moral support from parents - because
they can run into the same messages from schooled friends and
relatives that not-reading means something is wrong with them.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Heather & Markus Schleidt
Thank you so much for this link. I needed to read this and figure out how to word some of this stuff to my dad. He disagrees with unschooling (my mom disagree with homeschooling altogether) but thankfully we have had enough mature discussions for he and I to agree to disagree. I will forward this on to him - he thinks we should do "school at home" and my children will be "well-educated".
Heather in Ohio
To: [email protected]: polykowholsteins@...: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:20:32 -0800Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
I think it is Alfie Kohn that says something about his wife being super intelligent and a doctor but could not spell.oh here it is: What Does It Mean to Be Well-Educated? http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/welleducated.htmAlex Polikowskyhttp://polykow.blogspot.com/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather in Ohio
To: [email protected]: polykowholsteins@...: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:20:32 -0800Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Thanks for the great info on this group!
I think it is Alfie Kohn that says something about his wife being super intelligent and a doctor but could not spell.oh here it is: What Does It Mean to Be Well-Educated? http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/welleducated.htmAlex Polikowskyhttp://polykow.blogspot.com/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone.
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pebsflower
------HI all it is recommend a friend week at Homeschool Pen Pals and
I saw your child likes to be pen pals so I am inviting yous all to
join up as my friends. Just go to the site and say I invited you!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschoolpen-pals/
We will also be having many new things going on...
Plans up coming will be a geography exchange...and a post card
exchange on the group...learn new info about other parts of the world
and states!
Pebs In [email protected], da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
wrote:
have graduated high school. The writing is often horrible. In fact the
people who are not English as a first language writers are ALL better
spellers and writers then the English as a first language people. Most
the younger people can't even be bothered to type full words like you
prefering u instead yet few of them understand the U R N X song........
I have seen a good 75 to 80% of high school graduates have the same or
worse spelling skills as my my oldest when we took her out of the 4th
grade. 2. Schools are doing a horrifying job of teaching children
spelling. 3. learning English because you want to communicate with
other like minded people produces people who have excellent spelling
and grammar. At least from what I have seen. 4. they might be giants
sings about everything! I love them they are like a main educational
staple in our house. 5. those who love language have the best spelling
and writing. 6. most people who graduated highschool hate the english
language or just dont care. I know I hated the english language by then.
many other places. So my point is they will learn spelling and good
writing by spelling and writing and reading and caring about what they
write.
reading and games where you find the words or unscramble them or have
to figure out the order they are suppose to be in are found in tons of
video games. There is also boggle and jr boggle and cross words and
word searches and book writing contests and pen pals and lists for the
store and notes passed under doors and poetry contests and diaries or
journals and blogs and forums and chatting and books and the list goes
on and on and on.
read I mean they had 18 years of reading and writing shoved down their
throats and it did not take.... I mean seriously how do you get to be
an adult without being able to read on at least a minimal level much
less graduate highchool; societies end all be all of edumacation?
I saw your child likes to be pen pals so I am inviting yous all to
join up as my friends. Just go to the site and say I invited you!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschoolpen-pals/
We will also be having many new things going on...
Plans up coming will be a geography exchange...and a post card
exchange on the group...learn new info about other parts of the world
and states!
Pebs In [email protected], da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
wrote:
>decade. Most of these people have gone to school and the vast majority
>
> > How do you insure your child can
> > SPELL correctly
>
>
> I have run a forum for people who are no younger then 13 for over a
have graduated high school. The writing is often horrible. In fact the
people who are not English as a first language writers are ALL better
spellers and writers then the English as a first language people. Most
the younger people can't even be bothered to type full words like you
prefering u instead yet few of them understand the U R N X song........
>without good English skills should you so choose. After all from what
> This tells me that 1. you can get along in the real world just fine
I have seen a good 75 to 80% of high school graduates have the same or
worse spelling skills as my my oldest when we took her out of the 4th
grade. 2. Schools are doing a horrifying job of teaching children
spelling. 3. learning English because you want to communicate with
other like minded people produces people who have excellent spelling
and grammar. At least from what I have seen. 4. they might be giants
sings about everything! I love them they are like a main educational
staple in our house. 5. those who love language have the best spelling
and writing. 6. most people who graduated highschool hate the english
language or just dont care. I know I hated the english language by then.
>lists I have been on and no one crusifys anyone for it like they do in
> In fact this list has far better spelling and grammer then most
many other places. So my point is they will learn spelling and good
writing by spelling and writing and reading and caring about what they
write.
> There are TONS of writing resources out there now days. I love thebetween the lions show. All sorts of games that involve writing and
reading and games where you find the words or unscramble them or have
to figure out the order they are suppose to be in are found in tons of
video games. There is also boggle and jr boggle and cross words and
word searches and book writing contests and pen pals and lists for the
store and notes passed under doors and poetry contests and diaries or
journals and blogs and forums and chatting and books and the list goes
on and on and on.
>am compleatly shocked that there are highschool graduates who can't
> Did you know that a % of highschool graduates can't read? I frankly
read I mean they had 18 years of reading and writing shoved down their
throats and it did not take.... I mean seriously how do you get to be
an adult without being able to read on at least a minimal level much
less graduate highchool; societies end all be all of edumacation?
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>