Erin

My 11 year old dd thinks that she is not learning anything unless she
is doing traditional school work with textbooks, etc. She was in
school from 1st-4th grade (half way through that year) and has been out
of school for almost a year now.

I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished
through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced...at all. Is there
something a child that has been conditioned to believe in school could
read to gain insight into the idea that she's truly learning every
day? She really thinks she needs to be in a classroom or least using
textbooks to "learn". It makes me very sad :(

She also has her dad (my ex), that is completely against homeschooling,
constantly asking her what school-work she has done. Any suggested
reading or thoughts for an 11 year old totally sold by the idea that
learning is only accomplished in the classroom or by reading a
textbook?

da Slinky

I took mine out in the 4th grade when she was 11 as well. She had basically been in school since she was about 2 but started out in mostly montessori schools before public k-4. She will be 14 next monday. we spent the first several years being kind of eclectic and trying to find the right fit.

I suspect the reason she can't see anything but schoolwork as learning is because her dad is constantly asking her what schoolwork she is doing and enforcing the idea that she is not learning anything without it. So take her to get some workbooks or curiculum softwear. They had some full primary middle school and hich school curiculum softwear packs at the half price books a while back that we bought when we were in an educational software phase. I think they were based in australia so they have fun accents for the characters in the games. Find a home for them and then if she wants to use them she will.

You might also want to have a talk with the father about the presure and perceptions he is imposing on her and how you can come to some sort of agreement. It sounds like your the primary care giver here so perhaps you could give him weekly reports about what she is doing structured academicly kind of like many people do for the sates they live in. Ask him not to ask her about it but to discuss acedemics with you and instead to discuss what she is doing rather then what she is learning with her.

Maybe he will come around to seeing the learning she is doing rather then imposing learning he can see.





________________________________
From: Erin <theburkemommy@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 2:45:57 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11 yo convinced she isn't learning without "school work"


My 11 year old dd thinks that she is not learning anything unless she
is doing traditional school work with textbooks, etc. She was in
school from 1st-4th grade (half way through that year) and has been out
of school for almost a year now.

I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished
through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced... at all. Is there
something a child that has been conditioned to believe in school could
read to gain insight into the idea that she's truly learning every
day? She really thinks she needs to be in a classroom or least using
textbooks to "learn". It makes me very sad :(

She also has her dad (my ex), that is completely against homeschooling,
constantly asking her what school-work she has done. Any suggested
reading or thoughts for an 11 year old totally sold by the idea that
learning is only accomplished in the classroom or by reading a
textbook?






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Erin" <theburkemommy@...>
wrote:
>> I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished
> through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced...at all.

Did you talk about all the things she's been learning about since she
left school? Is she, maybe, not seeing the value in those things yet?
What kinds of things is she doing?

> She also has her dad (my ex), that is completely against
homeschooling,
> constantly asking her what school-work she has done.

Why is he asking her? That's an important question. She's essentially
being asked to give her own progress reports, and that's really
really tough to do! What are you doing to document her "education"?
Even if the state where you live doesn't require much, it would be a
good idea to set up a portfolio to show dad. That will help take the
onus of "reporting" off your dd.

Creating a portfolio might also help your dd see what she's learning.

You might also consider giving your dd some material on different
educational styles - maybe even a textbook, for that matter. Or,
here's a site with a bunch of information on learning that might
interest her:

http://www.newhorizons.org/strategies/front_strategies.html

Here's another page with some information and sources she may find
interesting, including a long list of "notable autodidacts."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidactic

---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jan 20, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Erin wrote:

> I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished
> through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced...at all.

Don't try to convince her with words. That's what schools do. Instead
of letting people discover things, they put the information in their
head.

That's what you're trying to do. You're trying to put the information
in her head that learning doesn't come from textbooks, when up until
a year ago you and others around her believed that was true.

Do share your beliefs but not as a way to change her beliefs.

I think preteen is a fairly typical age to go through this doubt.
Don't dismiss it. Her fears are real to her. But that doesn't mean
you need to agree with her.

As someone suggested, make the workbooks available. Let her pick some
out. Then you up the level of living life. Go places. Talk about
stuff. Do things. Watch shows together. Let *her* see how much she's
learning by doing. Let her feelings be a barometer that you can make
changes in you rather than trying to change her.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tammy Curry

My daughter is 10 and this our first year. We are facing something similar. So we make worksheets, learning books, etc available. It isn't her father that is the issue for us it is her grandfather, upon whom the sun rises and sets, that keeps asking about her going back to school. But not because of academics he has seen and does appreciate the amount of learning she is accomplishing, but because he thinks she needs more socialization. It still makes it difficult, a difficult age to begin with. I have flat out told my dad to express his opinions to us the parents and not necessarily to her. It shakes her confidence in her ability to be "normal".

We are pretty eclectic but are moving more and more into unschooling. It is of course easier with our 4 yr old, he hasn't been to public school. For him this is the status quo. The beauty of it all is since she feels more comfortable right now with traditional teaching we can do that, not every day we do plenty of outings that we have a blast doing. The end of the day my daughter will look at me or her father and realize she spent the whole day learning. We are also learning to relax and let nature take its course. It is an entire family transition from traditional parenting and schooling, but the more we relax and let things just happen the more the kids relax and I think in the near future it will all be good.

Now if we notice she is struggling with a subject we will give her more information on that subject or specific topic. It takes her a bit to digest it all. I guess give isn't quite the correct word but we make the information available would be a better statement. If she wants some kind of assessment on her work we give it to her. De-schooling is a long process, at least it has been for us.

If your daughter wants school work no harm in making it available. It is what she is used to and getting the idea that we can learn outside the classroom setting is hard concept for children as well as adults. Especially in a society that tells you you will get no where with going to school and getting a college education so that we can all be good little robots and do as we are told. She will see the benefits of life learning soon. Move at her pace.


Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/






________________________________
From: Erin <theburkemommy@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:45:57 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11 yo convinced she isn't learning without "school work"


My 11 year old dd thinks that she is not learning anything unless she
is doing traditional school work with textbooks, etc. She was in
school from 1st-4th grade (half way through that year) and has been out
of school for almost a year now.

I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished
through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced... at all. Is there
something a child that has been conditioned to believe in school could
read to gain insight into the idea that she's truly learning every
day? She really thinks she needs to be in a classroom or least using
textbooks to "learn". It makes me very sad :(

She also has her dad (my ex), that is completely against homeschooling,
constantly asking her what school-work she has done. Any suggested
reading or thoughts for an 11 year old totally sold by the idea that
learning is only accomplished in the classroom or by reading a
textbook?






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

And, too, some folks actually LIKE textbook style learning - fill ins,
questions to answer, etc all in a nice sequential order. There's nothing
wrong with textbooks per se if that's what someone chooses to use to
reach a goal. What might be helpful is partner with her to find which
textbooks SHE wants to use. Go to a bookstore or three, the local
library (if you've got a decent sized one nearby, they often have
textbooks in their non-fiction section), if there's a university nearby
they probably have textbooks in their library (For the education majors
to use), hit some websites, get some catalogs, whatever is available and
sit with her and discuss what stuff she wants textbooks for, which style
of textbooks, and so on. Support her in it but as a partner rather than
top-down telling her what and when and how.

Deb R


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vickisue Gray

I asked my 11yo son what suggestions he would make for your daughter and he suggested she read the 'Life of Fred Series' currently one of his favorites, and play games like Civilizations, Age of Mythology, Age of Empires, and if she likes TV, shows on Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, Alton Brown on the Food Network, Mythbusters, Time Warp, or anything else she finds interesting.  He suggested exploring your local Science Museum, too.
 
If you could share some of the things your daughter enjoys, I'm sure people on this list could supply a long list of things to explore.  My son is totally into dogs and cats, so the recent series on Dogs in the Womb and Cats in the Womb by National Geography, were right up his alley.  We recorded them so he can watch them as much as he likes.  We also watch a lot of the Dog Whisperer as he is learning to train his puppy.
 
I have many homeschooling and unschooling friends that keep a blog so that family can see what they are doing.  The doubters tend to ease up when they can see learning happening.  I use my blog just to keep a sense of whats going on in our lives.  We use an umbrella school (600 school) which keeps me from having to report yearly progress reports.  You have to check your state's laws for what works for you.
 
Vicki
 
 
 
 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heather & Markus Schleidt

Does she WANT to homeschool? Is it possible that she could be using this as an excuse to try and get you to put her BACK into school? I would talk to her about her desire to homeschool. Children don't want to go against their parents often, so they go about talking to them in roundabout ways. Just my thoughts.

Heather



To: [email protected]: theburkemommy@...: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:45:57 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11 yo convinced she isn't learning without "school work"



My 11 year old dd thinks that she is not learning anything unless she is doing traditional school work with textbooks, etc. She was in school from 1st-4th grade (half way through that year) and has been out of school for almost a year now. I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced...at all. Is there something a child that has been conditioned to believe in school could read to gain insight into the idea that she's truly learning every day? She really thinks she needs to be in a classroom or least using textbooks to "learn". It makes me very sad :( She also has her dad (my ex), that is completely against homeschooling, constantly asking her what school-work she has done. Any suggested reading or thoughts for an 11 year old totally sold by the idea that learning is only accomplished in the classroom or by reading a textbook?





_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live� Hotmail�:�more than just e-mail.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mara

I would totally second that. When I was that age I actually would have loved to do that kind of learning in my own way and at my own pace. I did not mind many of the textbooks, I just HATED school. I remember clearly looking at one of the biology books and thinking this could actually be interesting if it wasn't for that sadistic cruel teacher. So yes, just ask her what she wants to learn, and then look at textbooks together or on the internet and in addition get her some non-textbook stuff related to her interest. Sometimes the Waldorf (Oak Meadow) curriculum stuff is a little more flexible and she might have fun getting idea from things like that.
Sometimes at that age it is just good knowing for yourself that you CAN do what everyone else is doing, especially if she has such a doubting father.
Mara



________________________________
From: Debra Rossing <debra.rossing@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:34:53 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re:11 yo convinced she isn't learning without "school work"


And, too, some folks actually LIKE textbook style learning - fill ins,
questions to answer, etc all in a nice sequential order. There's nothing
wrong with textbooks per se if that's what someone chooses to use to
reach a goal. What might be helpful is partner with her to find which
textbooks SHE wants to use. Go to a bookstore or three, the local
library (if you've got a decent sized one nearby, they often have
textbooks in their non-fiction section), if there's a university nearby
they probably have textbooks in their library (For the education majors
to use), hit some websites, get some catalogs, whatever is available and
sit with her and discuss what stuff she wants textbooks for, which style
of textbooks, and so on. Support her in it but as a partner rather than
top-down telling her what and when and how.

Deb R

************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.

CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam. com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hbmccarty

Both my kids went through this at about this age, and neither of them
have ever been to school. I think both of them got this idea from their
peers - my son from schooled kids he met through activities, and my
daughter from her cousins, who are schooled. My daughter is still going
through it to some extent. What we did for my son is just to feed his
interests and areas of competence in every possible way- he started
doing apprenticeships, we bought him an upright bass, found lots of
group music activities, which he is still really into, and got really
into starting a learning center which we still participate in. He takes
some science classes and a lot of sports there. He also did have saxon
math books for a few years, which he picked up when he wanted to. At
this point he is so busy and passionate about what he is doing(music and
fitness) that he sees academic study as a waste of time. Though he may
make a shift and do some in the future.- he has been considering this.

Joyce Fetteroll wrote: On Jan 20, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Erin wrote:
>
> > I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished
> > through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced...at all.
>
> Don't try to convince her with words. That's what schools do. Instead
> of letting people discover things, they put the information in their
> head..
>








Yes, I agree here, words are not convincing. It takes time. My daughter
may try school. In the meantime I am offering many community activities,
and activities at home, finding books, DVD's, games, planning things
that she likes to do, we are redecorating her room, painting nails
together, going shopping when we can, and taking EVERY interest she has
seriously. She is Skyping her cousins and their friends everyday after
school. She says it is like having a playdate everyday. No mention of
going to school in a while.

Heather (in NY)

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jan 21, 2009, at 3:35 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

> As someone suggested, make the workbooks available. Let her pick some
> out. Then you up the level of living life. Go places. Talk about
> stuff. Do things. Watch shows together. Let *her* see how much she's
> learning by doing. Let her feelings be a barometer that you can make
> changes in you rather than trying to change her.

Hey - maybe go with it. Give her some assignments. For "English"
assign her to read "How I Became an Autodidact" and "The Teenage
Liberation Handbook." Maybe thrown in some John Holt, too.

-pam

Erin

Joyce said, "You're trying to put the information in her head that
learning doesn't come from textbooks, when up until a year ago you
and others around her believed that was true."

I just need to clarify that this is NOT a true statement! I did NOT
believe that learning only came from textbooks as of last year!!! I
simply stated she was in school until last year, but that doesn't
mean that it was my belief that schools/textbooks = learning.

I totally agree with the offering up workbooks and such (and I have
and do) and I absolutely agree that "upping" the level of life is a
definite need! We slowed down with our outings over the holidays, so
we need to pick back up!!!

Just from her computer use this morning she has asked me what
increase, decrease, and valid mean! She has also asked for multiple
spellings of words...which she does on a daily basis. My 6 year old
said, "Ashlyn, you just learned how to spell a new word!" It was
cute :)

Great suggestions from all of you. Thank you!



--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Erin wrote:
>
> > I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished
> > through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced...at all.
>
> Don't try to convince her with words. That's what schools do.
Instead
> of letting people discover things, they put the information in
their
> head.
>
> That's what you're trying to do. You're trying to put the
information
> in her head that learning doesn't come from textbooks, when up
until
> a year ago you and others around her believed that was true.
>
> Do share your beliefs but not as a way to change her beliefs.
>
> I think preteen is a fairly typical age to go through this doubt.
> Don't dismiss it. Her fears are real to her. But that doesn't mean
> you need to agree with her.
>
> As someone suggested, make the workbooks available. Let her pick
some
> out. Then you up the level of living life. Go places. Talk about
> stuff. Do things. Watch shows together. Let *her* see how much
she's
> learning by doing. Let her feelings be a barometer that you can
make
> changes in you rather than trying to change her.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Kelly Lovejoy

It's very hard for a *child* to assume otherwise! When a child is IN school, the message is that "book larnin'" is *very* important and that school is NECESSARY to learn!



Although you might not have believed it, the message to *her* was very likely clear: school is THE place to learn.




We hear it all the time: If you don't go to school, how will you learn anything?




It's pervasive. So for a child in school to think otherwise would be rare.




No one's *accusing* you of anything. Just stop, breathe, and think about what your *daughter* may have thought!


~Kelly




-----Original Message-----
From: Erin <theburkemommy@...>







Joyce said, "You're trying to put the information in her head that
learning doesn't come from textbooks, when up until a year ago you
and others around her believed that was true."

I just need to clarify that this is NOT a true statement! I did NOT
believe that learning only came from textbooks as of last year!!! I
simply stated she was in school until last year, but that doesn't
mean that it was my belief that schools/textbooks = learning.











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:15 PM, Erin wrote:

> Just from her computer use this morning she has asked me what
> increase, decrease, and valid mean! She has also asked for multiple
> spellings of words...which she does on a daily basis. My 6 year old
> said, "Ashlyn, you just learned how to spell a new word!" It was
> cute :)


Is there a chance you're still a bit limited in your thinking about
what constitutes worthwhlie "learning?" Are you (and she) looking for
school-type learning (vocabulary and spelling, for example)?

-pam

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jan 21, 2009, at 4:15 PM, Erin wrote:

> I just need to clarify that this is NOT a true statement! I did NOT
> believe that learning only came from textbooks as of last year!!!

But what did your daughter believe? What did your daughter think you
believed?

Our actions can do a lot of talking without us realizing it. In fact
our actions can often turn our words into lies. If you sent her to
school everyday even when she didn't want to, what message did she
get from that?

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Gray

Kelly,
I have a funny story about that...we went to a girl scout rally last
weekend, big deal at the mall. One of the special guests was 'Hoot
the Owl' who was, as one might guess, representing college
scholarships. So the main presenter asks the girls "How many of you
plan on going to college?!" and everyone raised their hands. Everyone
except the girls in our homeschool troop. The looks in the eyes of
the other troop leaders/adults was priceless, especially when Rachel
said, "Why is college the only way to find our life's path?"

For our girls, it's not automatic. If college comes their way, fine.
But they don't assume that after school you must do college to make
something of yourself, or to make lots of money, or to follow your
dreams.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com



On Jan 21, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:

> It's very hard for a *child* to assume otherwise! When a child is
> IN school, the message is that "book larnin'" is *very* important
> and that school is NECESSARY to learn!
>
> Although you might not have believed it, the message to *her* was
> very likely clear: school is THE place to learn.
>
> We hear it all the time: If you don't go to school, how will you
> learn anything?
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vickisue Gray

Independant thinkers....
 
AWESOME!!!

--- On Wed, 1/21/09, Melissa Gray <melissagr8@...> wrote:

From: Melissa Gray <melissagr8@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Funny story about 'book larnin', was 11 yo convinced she isn't learning without "school work"
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 5:59 PM






Kelly,
I have a funny story about that...we went to a girl scout rally last
weekend, big deal at the mall. One of the special guests was 'Hoot
the Owl' who was, as one might guess, representing college
scholarships. So the main presenter asks the girls "How many of you
plan on going to college?!" and everyone raised their hands. Everyone
except the girls in our homeschool troop. The looks in the eyes of
the other troop leaders/adults was priceless, especially when Rachel
said, "Why is college the only way to find our life's path?"

For our girls, it's not automatic. If college comes their way, fine.
But they don't assume that after school you must do college to make
something of yourself, or to make lots of money, or to follow your
dreams.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlingliv es.blogspot. com/
http://startlingliv es365.blogspot. com

On Jan 21, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:

> It's very hard for a *child* to assume otherwise! When a child is
> IN school, the message is that "book larnin'" is *very* important
> and that school is NECESSARY to learn!
>
> Although you might not have believed it, the message to *her* was
> very likely clear: school is THE place to learn.
>
> We hear it all the time: If you don't go to school, how will you
> learn anything?
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Erin

Very true. I'm sure she has been thinking that school is where you
learn. I'm trying to help her see that we are lead to believe that
is true. I am also wanting her to know that learning can be fun and
can happen at times other than textbook reading! She doesn't enjoy
reading textbooks or doing bookwork. She has acknowledged today that
she is noticing more times that she is learning.

Just today she asked what increased, decreased, and valid meant.
She asked me how to spell multiple words.
She asked (and we researched) the requirements for becoming President
of the United States.
She used money on an online game to purchase things and noticed the
subtracting from her balance.
She spent her own money at the store and we "balanced" her "account"
to see how much she had left.

She is recognizing that learning happens all of the time, but it's
definitely something that she is questioning because of her time in
school and her dad (and his family).

Thank you so much, ladies!!!

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2009, at 4:15 PM, Erin wrote:
>
> > I just need to clarify that this is NOT a true statement! I did
NOT
> > believe that learning only came from textbooks as of last year!!!
>
> But what did your daughter believe? What did your daughter think
you
> believed?
>
> Our actions can do a lot of talking without us realizing it. In
fact
> our actions can often turn our words into lies. If you sent her to
> school everyday even when she didn't want to, what message did she
> get from that?
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Erin

Thank you for these ideas. I will see what she thinks. She doesn't
enjoy textbooks at all, normally, but they were always attached to
required work!!! I will ask her what she thinks about finding
interesting textbooks to use for a subject or two that she finds
interesting.

I will also see if she wants to do research on a specific topic (she
loves horses) and help her accomplish that.

--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing"
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> And, too, some folks actually LIKE textbook style learning - fill
ins,
> questions to answer, etc all in a nice sequential order. There's
nothing
> wrong with textbooks per se if that's what someone chooses to use to
> reach a goal. What might be helpful is partner with her to find
which
> textbooks SHE wants to use. Go to a bookstore or three, the local
> library (if you've got a decent sized one nearby, they often have
> textbooks in their non-fiction section), if there's a university
nearby
> they probably have textbooks in their library (For the education
majors
> to use), hit some websites, get some catalogs, whatever is
available and
> sit with her and discuss what stuff she wants textbooks for, which
style
> of textbooks, and so on. Support her in it but as a partner rather
than
> top-down telling her what and when and how.
>
> Deb R
>
>
>
**********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
notify
> the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept
by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>
> CNC Software, Inc.
> www.mastercam.com
>
**********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Erin

"How I Became an Autodidact"--is this about unschooling? I've never
heard of this one! Is it geared to a younger population? I could help
her read it...I could probably read it myself :)

I've heard of "The Teen Liberation Handbook" and I think we are going
to start here! I will read it and see if she (and the others) are
interested in hearing about what it says.

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2009, at 3:35 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
> > As someone suggested, make the workbooks available. Let her pick
some
> > out. Then you up the level of living life. Go places. Talk about
> > stuff. Do things. Watch shows together. Let *her* see how much she's
> > learning by doing. Let her feelings be a barometer that you can make
> > changes in you rather than trying to change her.
>
> Hey - maybe go with it. Give her some assignments. For "English"
> assign her to read "How I Became an Autodidact" and "The Teenage
> Liberation Handbook." Maybe thrown in some John Holt, too.
>
> -pam
>

Erin

Nope, we're not looking for spelling and vocabulary work! She was
wanting to type something while she was on runescape.com to
communicate with someone else, so she asked how to spell something.
And she was doing a search for something related to Twilight! She
wasn't looking to do anything related to school...just surfing the
web and needing to know the meaning of those words to understand
something she found.

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:15 PM, Erin wrote:
>
> > Just from her computer use this morning she has asked me what
> > increase, decrease, and valid mean! She has also asked for
multiple
> > spellings of words...which she does on a daily basis. My 6 year
old
> > said, "Ashlyn, you just learned how to spell a new word!" It was
> > cute :)
>
>
> Is there a chance you're still a bit limited in your thinking
about
> what constitutes worthwhlie "learning?" Are you (and she) looking
for
> school-type learning (vocabulary and spelling, for example)?
>
> -pam
>

Erin

Very true, Tammy. I do have some "educational" software I could load
onto the computers and we have lots of workbooks, etc but most of
them aren't really accessible. I need to get a bookshelf for them
and put them in a place they are easy to get to. I do have some
books out that have interesting things to do in them or have
information on interesting topics, but they aren't really schoolish
books.

I will see what I can do to make "schoolish" stuff available to her
and make sure she knows she can use them whenever she wants. I do
have an active subscription to www.time4learning.com and she has an
account and she knows she can access it any time she wants. She has
not chosen to get on to do it since mid-October!!! I have kept the
account open so they can do "school" if they still feel the need to
do it, but they don't do it. When I asked her if it was okay to
cancel the subscription she said "no"! It costs $35 a month for the
two that are on it. I'm not sure what to do with that...!

--- In [email protected], Tammy Curry
<mamabeart00@...> wrote:
>
> My daughter is 10 and this our first year. We are facing something
similar. So we make worksheets, learning books, etc available. It
isn't her father that is the issue for us it is her grandfather, upon
whom the sun rises and sets, that keeps asking about her going back
to school. But not because of academics he has seen and does
appreciate the amount of learning she is accomplishing, but because
he thinks she needs more socialization. It still makes it difficult,
a difficult age to begin with. I have flat out told my dad to express
his opinions to us the parents and not necessarily to her. It shakes
her confidence in her ability to be "normal".
>
> We are pretty eclectic but are moving more and more into
unschooling. It is of course easier with our 4 yr old, he hasn't been
to public school. For him this is the status quo. The beauty of it
all is since she feels more comfortable right now with traditional
teaching we can do that, not every day we do plenty of outings that
we have a blast doing. The end of the day my daughter will look at me
or her father and realize she spent the whole day learning. We are
also learning to relax and let nature take its course. It is an
entire family transition from traditional parenting and schooling,
but the more we relax and let things just happen the more the kids
relax and I think in the near future it will all be good.
>
> Now if we notice she is struggling with a subject we will give her
more information on that subject or specific topic. It takes her a
bit to digest it all. I guess give isn't quite the correct word but
we make the information available would be a better statement. If she
wants some kind of assessment on her work we give it to her. De-
schooling is a long process, at least it has been for us.
>
> If your daughter wants school work no harm in making it available.
It is what she is used to and getting the idea that we can learn
outside the classroom setting is hard concept for children as well as
adults. Especially in a society that tells you you will get no where
with going to school and getting a college education so that we can
all be good little robots and do as we are told. She will see the
benefits of life learning soon. Move at her pace.
>
>
> Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
> http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
> http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Erin <theburkemommy@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:45:57 PM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11 yo convinced she isn't learning
without "school work"
>
>
> My 11 year old dd thinks that she is not learning anything unless
she
> is doing traditional school work with textbooks, etc. She was in
> school from 1st-4th grade (half way through that year) and has been
out
> of school for almost a year now.
>
> I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished
> through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced... at all. Is there
> something a child that has been conditioned to believe in school
could
> read to gain insight into the idea that she's truly learning every
> day? She really thinks she needs to be in a classroom or least
using
> textbooks to "learn". It makes me very sad :(
>
> She also has her dad (my ex), that is completely against
homeschooling,
> constantly asking her what school-work she has done. Any suggested
> reading or thoughts for an 11 year old totally sold by the idea
that
> learning is only accomplished in the classroom or by reading a
> textbook?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Erin

Yes, she wants to homeschool for sure. I'm just not sure she wants
to unschool. We'll be doing lots of discussing and figuring what she
wants to do. We are very active in doing outings and researching
things on the internet and reading, etc but she has this idea about
school = learning and no school = no learning.



--- In [email protected], Heather & Markus Schleidt
<hmschleidt@...> wrote:
>
>
> Does she WANT to homeschool? Is it possible that she could be
using this as an excuse to try and get you to put her BACK into
school? I would talk to her about her desire to homeschool.
Children don't want to go against their parents often, so they go
about talking to them in roundabout ways. Just my thoughts.
>
> Heather
>
>
>
> To: unschoolingbasics@...: theburkemommy@...: Tue, 20 Jan 2009
22:45:57 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11 yo convinced she isn't
learning without "school work"
>
>
>
> My 11 year old dd thinks that she is not learning anything unless
she is doing traditional school work with textbooks, etc. She was in
school from 1st-4th grade (half way through that year) and has been
out of school for almost a year now. I tried explaining to her
that "learning" isn't only accomplished through textbooks, but she is
NOT convinced...at all. Is there something a child that has been
conditioned to believe in school could read to gain insight into the
idea that she's truly learning every day? She really thinks she needs
to be in a classroom or least using textbooks to "learn". It makes me
very sad :( She also has her dad (my ex), that is completely against
homeschooling, constantly asking her what school-work she has done.
Any suggested reading or thoughts for an 11 year old totally sold by
the idea that learning is only accomplished in the classroom or by
reading a textbook?
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?
ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Pamela Sorooshian

I didn't mean "looking" in that sense, Erin. I meant looking in the
sense that you are still thinking of "learning" as academic stuff kids
are taught in school - spelling/vocabulary, for example. What you
pointed out that she is "learning" is school-learning. There is so
much that is so much more important.

-pam

On Jan 21, 2009, at 6:07 PM, Erin wrote:

> Nope, we're not looking for spelling and vocabulary work! She was
> wanting to type something while she was on runescape.com to
> communicate with someone else, so she asked how to spell something.
> And she was doing a search for something related to Twilight! She
> wasn't looking to do anything related to school...just surfing the
> web and needing to know the meaning of those words to understand
> something she found.

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jan 21, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Erin wrote:

> I have kept the
> account open so they can do "school" if they still feel the need to
> do it, but they don't do it. When I asked her if it was okay to
> cancel the subscription she said "no"! It costs $35 a month for the
> two that are on it. I'm not sure what to do with that...!

It probably feels comforting, a tie to learning for her.

How about taking the $35 and letting them buy what they want with it
for the next few months?

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vickisue Gray

Your post made me smile =D
One of the greatest concepts to unschooling, it seems, you already have going for you!
 
>>We'll be doing lots of discussing and figuring what she wants to do.<<

Perfect!!
 
Peace and laughter!
Vicki

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Lovejoy

I'll tell you what *I* did that I recommend that you DON'T do!

Every time Cameron (in school from pre-K through sixth) learned something or figured something out...whatever, I'd point out, "See? That's algebra!" See? That's history!" "See? That's biology!"

Yeah...don't do that. <g>

Instead, when you see her making those connections, write them down in a permanent place---a daily planner, a blog, a journal. Gloat *there*! <g> Fill it up. For weeks. Months.

Then, when she starts to get in that state of "I'm-not-learning-anything," you tell her that you KNOW what all she's learned this past WEEK (it looks sooo much more impressive that way! <g> ).

Telling her "in the moment" doesn't have quite the same effect. But a huge compilation can ease fears.

In SC, we have to document our children's learning, so this is a requirement here. But I think it can be VERY helpful for parents AND children who are new to unschooling to see how much learning really DOES go on when uncoerced.

And if SHE can refer to that book when her dad asks, it'll give her something concrete to tell him.

My suggestion is to not let her know you're doing it at first. Just write down what you talk about during the day, where you go, movies you watch, meals you prepare, books you read, etc.---anything interesting and what you *all* learned. Don't go showing it to her right away. Let her warm up to it after a few weeks, months. It's much more affective when *thick*. <g>





~Kelly





-----Original Message-----
From: Erin <theburkemommy@...>



I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished
through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced...at all. Is there
something a child that has been conditioned to believe in school could
read to gain insight into the idea that she's truly learning every
day? She really thinks she needs to be in a classroom or least using
textbooks to "learn". It makes me very sad :(

She also has her dad (my ex), that is completely against homeschooling,
constantly asking her what school-work she has done. Any suggested
reading or thoughts for an 11 year old totally sold by the idea that
learning is only accomplished in the classroom or by reading a
textbook?








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jan 22, 2009, at 6:00 AM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:

> And if SHE can refer to that book when her dad asks, it'll give her
> something concrete to tell him.
>
> My suggestion is to not let her know you're doing it at first. Just
> write down what you talk about during the day, where you go, movies
> you watch, meals you prepare, books you read, etc.---anything
> interesting and what you *all* learned. Don't go showing it to her
> right away. Let her warm up to it after a few weeks, months. It's
> much more affective when *thick*. <g>

Here are some ideas for "Headings" - to help you think of what to
record:

Reading
Books, magazines, newspapers, websites….
Fiction, biography, nonfiction, poetry, drama, essays, articles,…..

Doing
Cooking, swimming, dog training, babysitting,
volunteering, working, singing, acting, music, math, ……

Making
Art, crafts, building, sewing, weaving, beadwork, ….

Writing
Journal, stories, letters, website, email, articles,…

Watching
TV, movies, videos, live theater, demonstrations, exhibits,…

Listening
Tapes, radio, music, stories, audio magazines, lectures,….

Talking
Speech, discussion, explaining, directing, instructing, debating,….

Visiting
Museums, zoos, field trips,…..

Thinking
Planning, analyzing, imagining, plotting, ….


-pam

Heather & Markus Schleidt

If she WANTS to homeschool, then I would listen to the great advice from the others on this board. Believe me, if she unschools enough and gets used to the idea of learning without textbooks and worksheets she will eventually fall in love with unschooling (most likely) and wonder how and why she ever questioned it.

To: [email protected]: theburkemommy@...: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:17:54 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 11 yo convinced she isn't learning without "school work"



Yes, she wants to homeschool for sure. I'm just not sure she wants to unschool. We'll be doing lots of discussing and figuring what she wants to do. We are very active in doing outings and researching things on the internet and reading, etc but she has this idea about school = learning and no school = no learning.--- In [email protected], Heather & Markus Schleidt <hmschleidt@...> wrote:>> > Does she WANT to homeschool? Is it possible that she could be using this as an excuse to try and get you to put her BACK into school? I would talk to her about her desire to homeschool. Children don't want to go against their parents often, so they go about talking to them in roundabout ways. Just my thoughts.> > Heather> > > > To: unschoolingbasics@...: theburkemommy@...: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:45:57 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11 yo convinced she isn't learning without "school work"> > > > My 11 year old dd thinks that she is not learning anything unless she is doing traditional school work with textbooks, etc. She was in school from 1st-4th grade (half way through that year) and has been out of school for almost a year now. I tried explaining to her that "learning" isn't only accomplished through textbooks, but she is NOT convinced...at all. Is there something a child that has been conditioned to believe in school could read to gain insight into the idea that she's truly learning every day? She really thinks she needs to be in a classroom or least using textbooks to "learn". It makes me very sad :( She also has her dad (my ex), that is completely against homeschooling, constantly asking her what school-work she has done. Any suggested reading or thoughts for an 11 year old totally sold by the idea that learning is only accomplished in the classroom or by reading a textbook? > > > > > > __________________________________________________________> Windows Live� Hotmail�:�more than just e-mail. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>





_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live�: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

> She has also asked for multiple spellings of words

DS also enjoys this "oddity" of the English language -how the same
arrangement of letters can mean different things and how the same sounds
can come from such varied spellings. I guess he comes by it honestly
since DH and I love word play, puns, etc. and really get irritated at
the public use of the wrong word - using "there" for "their" and so on -
the stuff spell check doesn't catch. In individual communication, not so
big a deal but when a business publishes something (fliers, newsletters,
websites) and has it incorrect, it's aggravating (that's why I'm good at
my Quality Assurance job - I'm paid to be picky LOL)

Deb R


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