Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: What unschooling is
da Slinky
Don't get me wrong I am not saying they are wrong. Unschooling is probably the furthest thing from what I grew up with so I find it all fairly confusing. I do keep working on it though.
It is usually little things like "I am millitant about drinking only in the kitchen" or "turn them around, look at them firmly in the eyes and say no in an authoritative voice."
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It is usually little things like "I am millitant about drinking only in the kitchen" or "turn them around, look at them firmly in the eyes and say no in an authoritative voice."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 9, 2009, at 6:46 PM, da Slinky wrote:
a part of unschooling.
Sandra Dodd does advise people to firmly tell a child no when the
child is doing something hurtful or destructive.
That's the hard part of explaining radical unschooling, though. A
mindful parent can tell a child no and the child understands it's a
big "Whoa, wait a minute, look at what you're doing." A conventional
parent can do the same and it's ropes and chains and a lock on the
cage and something for the child to find a way around.
But a child can't understand no as help and information if they hear
it a lot. For radical unschoolers it's reserved for extreme situations.
Way back in the AOL days when the conservative homeschoolers rubbed
up against the unschoolers in the forums, I remember plenty of moms
saying they made sure their kids heard no a lot and were punished if
their kids didn't obey so their kids would understand the meaning of
no. What if they were to run into the street? they argued. They need
to stop when they hear no.
The flaw is that a lot of nos and kids learn to tune them out. When
kids rarely hear no, "NO!" is a big shock and it means something.
It really helps to ask if something is confusing you! :-) It helps
*us* too because it points out where the explanations aren't quite
cutting it and need clarified.
I think the hardest part of explaining radical unschooling is that
people arrive with a lot of baggage about how to treat children. And
a lot of the ideas we want to get across are already claimed by
conventional parenting and schooling but mean something totally
different.
Yes, you can say no. But the less you say no, the more you say "Let's
find a better way to do that," the more effective the nos will be.
Kids should hear no as good advice not as control. The first problem
is that conventional parents are certain their nos *are* good advice.
The second problem is that their kids *don't* think their nos are
good advice! In order to get to the point where a parent can
mindfully say no a lot of garbage needs cleared out of the way first.
And it's a lot easier if the parent begins by dropping no and saying
yes so they can regain their children's trust. But, then that can go
too far with kids who feel out of control and parents who don't know
what to do.
Joyce
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> It is usually little things like "I am millitant about drinkingI don't recall anyone saying anything like the first. Militant isn't
> only in the kitchen" or "turn them around, look at them firmly in
> the eyes and say no in an authoritative voice."
a part of unschooling.
Sandra Dodd does advise people to firmly tell a child no when the
child is doing something hurtful or destructive.
That's the hard part of explaining radical unschooling, though. A
mindful parent can tell a child no and the child understands it's a
big "Whoa, wait a minute, look at what you're doing." A conventional
parent can do the same and it's ropes and chains and a lock on the
cage and something for the child to find a way around.
But a child can't understand no as help and information if they hear
it a lot. For radical unschoolers it's reserved for extreme situations.
Way back in the AOL days when the conservative homeschoolers rubbed
up against the unschoolers in the forums, I remember plenty of moms
saying they made sure their kids heard no a lot and were punished if
their kids didn't obey so their kids would understand the meaning of
no. What if they were to run into the street? they argued. They need
to stop when they hear no.
The flaw is that a lot of nos and kids learn to tune them out. When
kids rarely hear no, "NO!" is a big shock and it means something.
It really helps to ask if something is confusing you! :-) It helps
*us* too because it points out where the explanations aren't quite
cutting it and need clarified.
I think the hardest part of explaining radical unschooling is that
people arrive with a lot of baggage about how to treat children. And
a lot of the ideas we want to get across are already claimed by
conventional parenting and schooling but mean something totally
different.
Yes, you can say no. But the less you say no, the more you say "Let's
find a better way to do that," the more effective the nos will be.
Kids should hear no as good advice not as control. The first problem
is that conventional parents are certain their nos *are* good advice.
The second problem is that their kids *don't* think their nos are
good advice! In order to get to the point where a parent can
mindfully say no a lot of garbage needs cleared out of the way first.
And it's a lot easier if the parent begins by dropping no and saying
yes so they can regain their children's trust. But, then that can go
too far with kids who feel out of control and parents who don't know
what to do.
Joyce
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da Slinky
I guess I don't ask because I tend to say the wrong things. I am emotionally sensitive lately and would rather not alienate myself from people who understand something I am trying to learn about by placing them on the defensive. I guess I hope if I just keep reading and trying my best to continue moving in the right direction I will understand it eventually or it wont matter.
Thank you for your explanation of the no thing.
It really helps to ask if something is confusing you! :-) It helps
*us* too because it points out where the explanations aren't quite
cutting it and need clarified.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you for your explanation of the no thing.
It really helps to ask if something is confusing you! :-) It helps
*us* too because it points out where the explanations aren't quite
cutting it and need clarified.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
I'm having a really hard time believing that either of these statements came from a radically unschooling parent.
Seriously.
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
It is usually little things like "I am millitant about drinking only in the
kitchen" or "turn them around, look at them firmly in the eyes and say no in an
authoritative voice."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Seriously.
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
It is usually little things like "I am millitant about drinking only in the
kitchen" or "turn them around, look at them firmly in the eyes and say no in an
authoritative voice."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]