porn issues
Kelly Lovejoy
I received this last night off-list. I suggested that I bring it here so you guys could hash it out a bit. Names have been changed to preserve anonymity.
~Kelly
*******************
OMG....my biggest freak out of the week: I walked into the dining room to see Billy (13) on his laptop googling porn. <roll> Just what I need. Guy and girl, and I was like PLEASE make my life easy and just be looking at girls (nice huh?). Neither dh or I have any healthy background on sexuality: he was beaten from two on for touching himself and STILL won't talk about sex after 15 years of marriage. I've handled all the issues with the kids, but I was molested and have such issues with porn. Makes me sick. I thought I handled it well, just said something like I'd rather he did that in his room so that the littles didn't see it. But I know I was raging hormones by his age, and my mom was blaming me for being molested and then raped; and I just do NOT know how to handle this. On top of everything, his sisters are still running around naked! ack! He doesn't know any girls his age. They are all his little sisters' ages or MUCH older, and they don't even see him as having experiment potential. I have no idea where to go with this. So now I'm like, what activity can I encourage him in to meet girls his age????
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~Kelly
*******************
OMG....my biggest freak out of the week: I walked into the dining room to see Billy (13) on his laptop googling porn. <roll> Just what I need. Guy and girl, and I was like PLEASE make my life easy and just be looking at girls (nice huh?). Neither dh or I have any healthy background on sexuality: he was beaten from two on for touching himself and STILL won't talk about sex after 15 years of marriage. I've handled all the issues with the kids, but I was molested and have such issues with porn. Makes me sick. I thought I handled it well, just said something like I'd rather he did that in his room so that the littles didn't see it. But I know I was raging hormones by his age, and my mom was blaming me for being molested and then raped; and I just do NOT know how to handle this. On top of everything, his sisters are still running around naked! ack! He doesn't know any girls his age. They are all his little sisters' ages or MUCH older, and they don't even see him as having experiment potential. I have no idea where to go with this. So now I'm like, what activity can I encourage him in to meet girls his age????
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
So now I'm like, what activity can I encourage him in to meet girls his age????
It's understandable how this must be difficult because of your history.? I don't think this issue, however, needs to be a huge concern.? It's so normal for young teens to be curious about all areas of sexuality.? I remember sneaking up to the attic and reading my dad's Playboy magazines at that age because it seemed the best source of information that was available to me.? I'm sure I would have been on the internet if it had been available.
If you are not comfortable talking about sexual issues with him (or even if you are) I suggest having books available that will give some accurate information for his age.?? We've had several books but I think the best one was "It's Perfectly Normal-Changing-Growing Up"? My kids joke about the book now but both of them read it.?
Meeting girls his age will happen naturally if you are just involved and active in your community. At 13, my son was not that interested in meeting girls. ?? What are some of his interests??
Gail
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 8:36 am
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] porn issues
I received this last night off-list. I suggested that I bring it here so you guys could hash it out a bit. Names have been changed to preserve?anonymity.
~Kelly
*******************
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's understandable how this must be difficult because of your history.? I don't think this issue, however, needs to be a huge concern.? It's so normal for young teens to be curious about all areas of sexuality.? I remember sneaking up to the attic and reading my dad's Playboy magazines at that age because it seemed the best source of information that was available to me.? I'm sure I would have been on the internet if it had been available.
If you are not comfortable talking about sexual issues with him (or even if you are) I suggest having books available that will give some accurate information for his age.?? We've had several books but I think the best one was "It's Perfectly Normal-Changing-Growing Up"? My kids joke about the book now but both of them read it.?
Meeting girls his age will happen naturally if you are just involved and active in your community. At 13, my son was not that interested in meeting girls. ?? What are some of his interests??
Gail
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 8:36 am
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] porn issues
I received this last night off-list. I suggested that I bring it here so you guys could hash it out a bit. Names have been changed to preserve?anonymity.
~Kelly
*******************
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
I can understand how hard this would be for you. Relax. Your son does NOT
know what you are thinking. You can keep that to yourself (with him). You
may want to consider counseling and try to find a way to feel more healthy
about sex. For yourself and for your kids. Sex will continue to come up :-)
Is there someone that is close to him that has a health attitude about sex
that he could talk to? Like uncle or older friends (adult or older teen)
someone with knowledge that he can relate.
As far as the pron being both guy and girl, I think that is pretty much just
curiosity. It is hard enough for a kid to imagine what sex between females
and males looks like. It is even hard to imagine what people of the same sex
do together (sexually). Plus those sites all lead you around to each other.
Unless there are other issues I doubt you have anything to worry about with
your little girls being naked around you. Likely he doesn't even think twice
about it.
he may not want to met girls his age. It may just be curiousity. If he has
grown up with sex being a basically hush hush topic then he probably just
has *alot* of questions.
Faith
know what you are thinking. You can keep that to yourself (with him). You
may want to consider counseling and try to find a way to feel more healthy
about sex. For yourself and for your kids. Sex will continue to come up :-)
Is there someone that is close to him that has a health attitude about sex
that he could talk to? Like uncle or older friends (adult or older teen)
someone with knowledge that he can relate.
As far as the pron being both guy and girl, I think that is pretty much just
curiosity. It is hard enough for a kid to imagine what sex between females
and males looks like. It is even hard to imagine what people of the same sex
do together (sexually). Plus those sites all lead you around to each other.
Unless there are other issues I doubt you have anything to worry about with
your little girls being naked around you. Likely he doesn't even think twice
about it.
he may not want to met girls his age. It may just be curiousity. If he has
grown up with sex being a basically hush hush topic then he probably just
has *alot* of questions.
Faith
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> I received this last night off-list. I suggested that I bring it here so
> you guys could hash it out a bit. Names have been changed to
> preserve anonymity.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> *******************
>
> OMG....my biggest freak out of the week: I walked into the dining room to
> see Billy (13) on his laptop googling porn. <roll> Just what I need. Guy and
> girl, and I was like PLEASE make my life easy and just be looking at girls
> (nice huh?). Neither dh or I have any healthy background on sexuality: he
> was beaten from two on for touching himself and STILL won't talk about sex
> after 15 years of marriage. I've handled all the issues with the kids, but I
> was molested and have such issues with porn. Makes me sick. I thought I
> handled it well, just said something like I'd rather he did that in his room
> so that the littles didn't see it. But I know I was raging hormones by his
> age, and my mom was blaming me for being molested and then raped; and I just
> do NOT know how to handle this. On top of everything, his sisters are still
> running around naked! ack! He doesn't know any girls his age. They are all
> his little sisters' ages or MUCH older, and they don't even see him as
> having experiment potential. I have no idea where to go with this. So now
> I'm like, what activity can I encourage him in to meet girls his age????
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> __
>
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lyeping2008
Wow! This is a tough one. I am trying to think what would i do too,
if it's my DS.
I truly understand your un-easiness due to your past, I'm having
issues too, about DS grabbing my boobs, due to my stepdad grabbing
during my teenage years, and a "near" rape incident.
I did spoke to my kid about my un-esiness of him grabbing me, how it
makes me nervous and why.
Don't know if he understands or not. Seems more like not, could be
due to age. He is still trying to snatch a grab or two sometimes,
but in saying that, he seems to have register more when I re-act
more defensively like closing my chest up with my hands in front of
it, reaching out towards him, effectively holding and manuevering
his hands behind my back into hugging position, and placing my head
upon his head- a cuddle position.
Tho I did explain when someone say stop, it means you have to stop,
and No means stop. I am worried if he starts grabbing someone else.
The only thing that I keep forgetting to say is Stop. I just seems
to constantly re-act with a nervous jump and get snappy and then
stop myself in time to complete the "cuddle".
I shall be following this with interest, coz I really don't know how
to handle it when DS reaches that age whereby he's curious about
porns. I won't stop him, but how do one explain about the privacy
and personal part of such things?
Hugs,
SharonBugs
if it's my DS.
I truly understand your un-easiness due to your past, I'm having
issues too, about DS grabbing my boobs, due to my stepdad grabbing
during my teenage years, and a "near" rape incident.
I did spoke to my kid about my un-esiness of him grabbing me, how it
makes me nervous and why.
Don't know if he understands or not. Seems more like not, could be
due to age. He is still trying to snatch a grab or two sometimes,
but in saying that, he seems to have register more when I re-act
more defensively like closing my chest up with my hands in front of
it, reaching out towards him, effectively holding and manuevering
his hands behind my back into hugging position, and placing my head
upon his head- a cuddle position.
Tho I did explain when someone say stop, it means you have to stop,
and No means stop. I am worried if he starts grabbing someone else.
The only thing that I keep forgetting to say is Stop. I just seems
to constantly re-act with a nervous jump and get snappy and then
stop myself in time to complete the "cuddle".
I shall be following this with interest, coz I really don't know how
to handle it when DS reaches that age whereby he's curious about
porns. I won't stop him, but how do one explain about the privacy
and personal part of such things?
Hugs,
SharonBugs
Schuyler
Honestly the thing that would most worry me about Simon or Linnaea using the internet to look for porn would be the potential for viruses and legal issues. It isn't something that I'm shy or afraid of. If talked about the problem of the internet as the point of access for information about sex and for naked pictures with both Simon and Linnaea. Wikipedia has an article about the legality of internet pornography: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_Internet_pornography, which talks in interesting ways about the difficulty of holding an international medium to national or state laws as well as what is legal and what isn't in a few countries.
However unhealthy your relationship with sex was, and molestion, rape and near rape certainly could lead to a seriously unhealthy feeling about sex, it is perfectly healthy and normal for a 13 year old boy or girl to be interested in looking at naked pictures. It might help a lot if you get books for both of you about sex.
In response to someone concerned about her 9 year old son discovering internet porn, Diana Jenner wrote this:
Proof indeed that if *you* don't provide an atmosphere where sexuality is
treated as a holistic part of the human existence, your child will find the
folks who provide just the *sex* component of humanity.
If you need some impetus to have (an on-going, life-long) conversation about
human sexuality, I recommend "It's Perfectly
Normal<http://search.a1books.com/cgi-bin/mktSearch?act=showDesc&code=gbase&rel=1&ITEM_CODE=1564021599>"
(available on line as low as $*.*25!!) -- even (maybe especially) to leave
on his bed, to read/look at/peruse at his leisure.
I'm not sure I have advice to the situation above, as it's truly beyond my
imagination (a 9 year old without the info - not a judgment, just out of my
realm of experience)...
I will ponder and chime in again to this conversation.
For anyone else who is not already having an ongoing dialogue with their
child (of ANY age) about human sexuality as a part of *Who We Are* begin
NOW!! It's never too *soon* to have a healthy view of sex -- it's where we
ALL came from :::vbg:::
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
In another e-mail she also recommended Changing Bodies, Changing
Lives<http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/publications/cbcl.asp>
And my mom had the original version of Our Bodies Our Selves in the basement with birth control pills that she used to prescribe when she volunteered at Planned Parenthood. I never asked why she had those. That was a really important book for me.
It is normal to want to understand what sex is and to want to look at naked people. It is normal to be curious. It would be safer for you to have more information available to him at home than stuff he'll find on-line. And less biased.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
However unhealthy your relationship with sex was, and molestion, rape and near rape certainly could lead to a seriously unhealthy feeling about sex, it is perfectly healthy and normal for a 13 year old boy or girl to be interested in looking at naked pictures. It might help a lot if you get books for both of you about sex.
In response to someone concerned about her 9 year old son discovering internet porn, Diana Jenner wrote this:
Proof indeed that if *you* don't provide an atmosphere where sexuality is
treated as a holistic part of the human existence, your child will find the
folks who provide just the *sex* component of humanity.
If you need some impetus to have (an on-going, life-long) conversation about
human sexuality, I recommend "It's Perfectly
Normal<http://search.a1books.com/cgi-bin/mktSearch?act=showDesc&code=gbase&rel=1&ITEM_CODE=1564021599>"
(available on line as low as $*.*25!!) -- even (maybe especially) to leave
on his bed, to read/look at/peruse at his leisure.
I'm not sure I have advice to the situation above, as it's truly beyond my
imagination (a 9 year old without the info - not a judgment, just out of my
realm of experience)...
I will ponder and chime in again to this conversation.
For anyone else who is not already having an ongoing dialogue with their
child (of ANY age) about human sexuality as a part of *Who We Are* begin
NOW!! It's never too *soon* to have a healthy view of sex -- it's where we
ALL came from :::vbg:::
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
In another e-mail she also recommended Changing Bodies, Changing
Lives<http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/publications/cbcl.asp>
And my mom had the original version of Our Bodies Our Selves in the basement with birth control pills that she used to prescribe when she volunteered at Planned Parenthood. I never asked why she had those. That was a really important book for me.
It is normal to want to understand what sex is and to want to look at naked people. It is normal to be curious. It would be safer for you to have more information available to him at home than stuff he'll find on-line. And less biased.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brad Holcomb
One of the biggest things I've learned so far in parenting is that we can't give what we don't have. If you and your partner both have messy and hurtful histories around sexuality, you have to do the work to heal (counseling, books, etc) or you can't hope to model healthy sexual attitudes and behavior for your kids. You're just passing along your own hurts down the line so they can deal with it later with their own kids. If you choose to live in freak-out mode about sex (especially homophobic thoughts like "I hope it's just girls"), your son doesn't have to hear your words about it. He'll simply know that you're uncomfortable and that you have emotional triggers around sex.
At 13, I was both fascinated and terrified by sex. My parents weren't helpful at all in that we didn't have any open communication. It was my job to follow the rules and "be seen, not heard". So my first real sexual knowledge came from Gwen, my first heavy crush. She was 15, I was 13, and we went to a private Christian school together that year. She was dating a football player, but she called me her Little Boyfriend, and at recess she would tell me all of the mechanical stuff about periods and intercourse and different sexual positions. I had 1000 questions, and she had 1001 answers. I had no interest in "meeting girls my own age". Like any other kid, I just wanted info. More data!! (Number 5 is alive!). It would have been much easier if I had had Google back in those days.
My son is only 3, but I've already given a lot of thought to how we'll handle sexual discovery and exploration. Most of my thoughts end with "Breathe. Relax. Enjoy." In the days after my daughter was born 3 months ago, and my wife and I were getting frisky one night, he informed us that, "Mommy and daddy can't have sex yet. We already have a baby here and I don’t want another one yet." He watched mommy's belly get bigger throughout the pregnancy and had been constantly curious about how the baby had gotten in there, and we were matter-of-fact about it. Daddy's penis goes into mommy's vagina while they're making love, and daddy's penis squirts in some seeds, just like planting a seed in the earth (we garden), and baby grows. We answered all his questions, trying not to overload him. But at this point he thinks that babies are made *every* time sex happens, I think. It's a subject we've only talked about in context, in the moment as he's asked about it, and it's an area where I struggle (due to my non-informative parents and my overcompensation for that) to not be "Teacher-ly".
Our behavior (in both children and adults) is simply communication about our inner life and needs. So if my son's googling porn, I would think he's just communicating that he wants information, first, so I'll do whatever I can to help him get information. Help him google! And in addition to physical images of naked human bodies intertwined, he'll also have easy access to any of the David Deida books lying around my office to help answer questions about sexual spirituality (or spiritual sexuality, depending on how you think of it), and any other books I can find about puberty, body changes, etc. -=b.
--
Brad in Boulder, CO
http://holcombs.org
At 13, I was both fascinated and terrified by sex. My parents weren't helpful at all in that we didn't have any open communication. It was my job to follow the rules and "be seen, not heard". So my first real sexual knowledge came from Gwen, my first heavy crush. She was 15, I was 13, and we went to a private Christian school together that year. She was dating a football player, but she called me her Little Boyfriend, and at recess she would tell me all of the mechanical stuff about periods and intercourse and different sexual positions. I had 1000 questions, and she had 1001 answers. I had no interest in "meeting girls my own age". Like any other kid, I just wanted info. More data!! (Number 5 is alive!). It would have been much easier if I had had Google back in those days.
My son is only 3, but I've already given a lot of thought to how we'll handle sexual discovery and exploration. Most of my thoughts end with "Breathe. Relax. Enjoy." In the days after my daughter was born 3 months ago, and my wife and I were getting frisky one night, he informed us that, "Mommy and daddy can't have sex yet. We already have a baby here and I don’t want another one yet." He watched mommy's belly get bigger throughout the pregnancy and had been constantly curious about how the baby had gotten in there, and we were matter-of-fact about it. Daddy's penis goes into mommy's vagina while they're making love, and daddy's penis squirts in some seeds, just like planting a seed in the earth (we garden), and baby grows. We answered all his questions, trying not to overload him. But at this point he thinks that babies are made *every* time sex happens, I think. It's a subject we've only talked about in context, in the moment as he's asked about it, and it's an area where I struggle (due to my non-informative parents and my overcompensation for that) to not be "Teacher-ly".
Our behavior (in both children and adults) is simply communication about our inner life and needs. So if my son's googling porn, I would think he's just communicating that he wants information, first, so I'll do whatever I can to help him get information. Help him google! And in addition to physical images of naked human bodies intertwined, he'll also have easy access to any of the David Deida books lying around my office to help answer questions about sexual spirituality (or spiritual sexuality, depending on how you think of it), and any other books I can find about puberty, body changes, etc. -=b.
--
Brad in Boulder, CO
http://holcombs.org
Emily
I think I would just be thankful that he did not feel the need to hide
what he was doing. :) Must mean that at the very least, you and your
husband have not passed on your bad feelings about sex. He's a teenage
boy and would be curious even if you didn't want him to be, so you can
give yourself a pat on the back.
You have gotten some good reassurances already and until you are more
comfortable on the subject I agree it would be better to ask an older
male friend to make themselves available. My mom was uncomfortable
talking about sex just because it was something she grew up not
talking about and my grandma was of the mind that it was not to be
enjoyed. When my younger brother started having wet dreams, my mom
asked my husband to talk to him and let him know he could ask
questions without being embarrassed.
If I were in your place, I would want someone to pass on some
magazines and a bottle of lotion. A "vanilla" starter set, if you
will. I'm an adult with two kids and there is a lot of content on the
internet that still scares me. I'm not one to encourage censorship,
but if he is just curious, the stuff to be found online will only
bring up more questions and confusion than it will answer...especially
when you are not comfortable talking about it.
Good luck,
Emily
what he was doing. :) Must mean that at the very least, you and your
husband have not passed on your bad feelings about sex. He's a teenage
boy and would be curious even if you didn't want him to be, so you can
give yourself a pat on the back.
You have gotten some good reassurances already and until you are more
comfortable on the subject I agree it would be better to ask an older
male friend to make themselves available. My mom was uncomfortable
talking about sex just because it was something she grew up not
talking about and my grandma was of the mind that it was not to be
enjoyed. When my younger brother started having wet dreams, my mom
asked my husband to talk to him and let him know he could ask
questions without being embarrassed.
If I were in your place, I would want someone to pass on some
magazines and a bottle of lotion. A "vanilla" starter set, if you
will. I'm an adult with two kids and there is a lot of content on the
internet that still scares me. I'm not one to encourage censorship,
but if he is just curious, the stuff to be found online will only
bring up more questions and confusion than it will answer...especially
when you are not comfortable talking about it.
Good luck,
Emily
Robin Bentley
> If you are not comfortable talking about sexual issues with him (orI like this book, too. I bought one for myself and one for my dd. I
> even if you are) I suggest having books available that will give
> some accurate information for his age.?? We've had several books but
> I think the best one was "It's Perfectly Normal-Changing-Growing
> Up"? My kids joke about the book now but both of them read it.?
think it is good to feel informed as a parent and reading the same
books can help, especially if you feel embarrassed or uncomfortable.
Another way to get over that <g> is to go to Scarleteen, a hip website
on sexuality, relationships and growing up. Your son might be
interested, too :-)
http://www.scarleteen.com/
>My daughter has only a passing interest in boys, at 13. It's mostly
>
> Meeting girls his age will happen naturally if you are just involved
> and active in your community. At 13, my son was not that interested
> in meeting girls. ?? What are some of his interests??
just confusing to her at this stage and she has boy "friends" not
"boyfriends." But, she reads her sexuality books and understands the
possibilities. But, she doesn't want to do things specifically to meet
someone, either.
Robin B.
Christie Craigie-Carter
To the OP, first of all (((((HUGS))))). Sexual abuse, and yes, what
occurred to your dh counts as such too, is so horrendous and can have
far-reaching implications. I've had so much therapy and am even a therapist
(not actively) myself and I'm still dealing with awful side effects from
abuse. I could go on a long rant, but it would probably be inappropriate.
For you, I highly recommend a book by Wendy Maltz called "The Sexual Healing
Journey". It may be out of print now, but I found it at my local library
(actually at the one in my small town). It really helped me to feel
validated and to examine exactly what effects were still damaging me and
which weren't. I also highly recommend "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin de
Becker to anyone with children. He was also severely abused as a child and
has become a crusader for children. He consults with the FBI on tracking
down internet predators, if I have that right. Protect.org has lobbied to
get laws through Congress to protect children from internet predators, which
would be beneficial to check out.
He also wrote "The Gift of Fear" which I've not yet read. Protecting the
Gift really helps you come up with criteria for a lot of things. He does a
lot of emphasizing of the power of intuition. That said, I still find
myself unsure as to whether my reaction is one of fear or one of intuition.
I think that's what abuse does to you, it really distorts where the "lines"
are. So far, I'm keeping my kids probably "over-protected", still trying to
sort it out.
That all may sound unrelated to your situation, but I think it is very
related. If I understand correctly, you are essentially trying to discern
if this is developmentally appropriate behavior and if so, how to support it
within your comfort zone. I'm nearly positive that de Becker gives
suggestions on books, etc. for kids as well. I know he links to a lot of
programs re: self-protection for kids (what used to be billed and still is,
unfortunately, as "stranger danger" programs).
Legality, and potential risks to him, particularly from internet predators
would be my two biggest concerns. I hope the links/book suggestions I've
given will be helpful.
Best wishes,
Christie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
occurred to your dh counts as such too, is so horrendous and can have
far-reaching implications. I've had so much therapy and am even a therapist
(not actively) myself and I'm still dealing with awful side effects from
abuse. I could go on a long rant, but it would probably be inappropriate.
For you, I highly recommend a book by Wendy Maltz called "The Sexual Healing
Journey". It may be out of print now, but I found it at my local library
(actually at the one in my small town). It really helped me to feel
validated and to examine exactly what effects were still damaging me and
which weren't. I also highly recommend "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin de
Becker to anyone with children. He was also severely abused as a child and
has become a crusader for children. He consults with the FBI on tracking
down internet predators, if I have that right. Protect.org has lobbied to
get laws through Congress to protect children from internet predators, which
would be beneficial to check out.
He also wrote "The Gift of Fear" which I've not yet read. Protecting the
Gift really helps you come up with criteria for a lot of things. He does a
lot of emphasizing of the power of intuition. That said, I still find
myself unsure as to whether my reaction is one of fear or one of intuition.
I think that's what abuse does to you, it really distorts where the "lines"
are. So far, I'm keeping my kids probably "over-protected", still trying to
sort it out.
That all may sound unrelated to your situation, but I think it is very
related. If I understand correctly, you are essentially trying to discern
if this is developmentally appropriate behavior and if so, how to support it
within your comfort zone. I'm nearly positive that de Becker gives
suggestions on books, etc. for kids as well. I know he links to a lot of
programs re: self-protection for kids (what used to be billed and still is,
unfortunately, as "stranger danger" programs).
Legality, and potential risks to him, particularly from internet predators
would be my two biggest concerns. I hope the links/book suggestions I've
given will be helpful.
Best wishes,
Christie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
****************************
This has been our biggest problem with internet porn, and it turned out
to have more to do with a neighbor borrowing our computer and using it
to go to some of the creepier sites that are out there. Ray first clued
us in to what was going on. He stumbled across the sites in
the "history" and was horrified and asked us to ban the neighbor from
our computer, which we did. Since then we've had significantly less
trouble with the virtual clap, as it were.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
wrote:
>using the internet to look for porn would be the potential for viruses
> Honestly the thing that would most worry me about Simon or Linnaea
****************************
This has been our biggest problem with internet porn, and it turned out
to have more to do with a neighbor borrowing our computer and using it
to go to some of the creepier sites that are out there. Ray first clued
us in to what was going on. He stumbled across the sites in
the "history" and was horrified and asked us to ban the neighbor from
our computer, which we did. Since then we've had significantly less
trouble with the virtual clap, as it were.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
diana jenner
I began writing a response to this thread in the very beginning... and I
realized I didn't like the tone... I was/am passionate about this poor kid,
ANY kid, really, whose sexuality has been invisible to their adults (or
worse, whose sexuality has been the cause of undiscussed and unidentified
stressors in their adults). This response is not intended specifically for
the OP, truly I want to catch parents *before* they end up in her
situation. Pretend I'm your bestest friend in the whole universe, the one
person who can get away with saying anything to you because you know it
comes from a place of great love, then read:
My first question is: You've had 13+ years to think about your child's
sexuality... what has your conversation been like, in your head,
up til now? Did you think you'd skate through your child's life and not
have to talk about healthy sexuality? Who would talk to them about sex
instead of you? Where are they going to get information if it cannot (at
least healthily) be accessed at home?
Maybe this is a wake-up call to anyone on this list who has yet to *begin*
thinking about their child as a sexual being. S/he is! There is (in my not
so humble opinion) no excuse for their sexual curiosity arriving as a
SURPRISE!! OF COURSE, kids are curious! They tend (in my experience) to be
curious about *everything* about being a human being - sexuality included!
My human sexuality conversation started one day when Hannah was very young,
circa 2, and we were looking at pictures of our honeymoon at Disneyland.
Hannah wanted us to take her to Disneyland *right now* -- and I said, "You
were there with me! You were an egg, waiting in line, hoping one day to
*poof* turn into a little girl for us to take *back* to Disneyland."
Talking about her potential babies always being with her, was a conversation
we continued, as it came up and as it expanded (i.e. Hayden is NOT carrying
his potential children with him his whole life), and even (especially) as
she began chemotherapy. It seemed so flowing and natural.
I don't think I got private toileting moments until the last 2 years
(hayden's now 10)... talking about Mommy's moon time is talking about human
sexuality. It's really, really that simple to get started.
The Unitarian Universalists and the United Church of Christ got together a
decade or so ago and created a comprehensive sex ed curriculum K-Adult,
called Our Whole Life
(OWL<http://www.uua.org/religiouseducation/curricula/ourwhole/>).
[there is an optional spiritual component to this set, the information
itself is not faith-based] My kids didn't go to the program, I didn't want
sexuality to be a CLASS, it was already like a nice thread throughout the
weave of our life (as it truly is!), so I can't speak to being a parent of
the program. I can speak as a facilitator for the two levels of teen courses
(11-14 & 15-18 roughly). I was incredibly glad to have the opportunity to
be a resource for these kids, I was incredibly sad when I discovered for
whom I was their first resource. We talked - a lot - and that seems to be
the one thing that young humans want from the older ones - an opportunity to
*have the conversation* - if not with you, then with another trusted adult
in your life.
This was a common thread throughout the conversations I've had with
unschooled teens - "Strew the info and find me a trusted someone to talk to
about it." Sometimes (and sorry, it is rare) they're comfortable fully with
their parents; the surprise to me was even the coolest parents in the world
weren't the perfect fit to talk intimate details about sex with. And it was
NOT a judgment against the parents in ANY WAY - it was a true expression of
comfort on the part of the young people.
Strewing ideas:
*The Joy of Sex (leave it on the bookshelf or coffee table)
*Our Bodies Our Selves (ditto)
*It's Perfectly
Normal<http://www.amazon.com/Its-Perfectly-Normal-Changing-Growing/dp/1564021599>(it
seems there is a lot of this available on line, in sections anyway, I
found the lovemaking and masturbation chapters on .pdf and on youtube, hee
hee, so I guess kids ARE reading it and sharing with their friends - YAY!
And of course, in the spirit of balance, I'll take you to my blogpost about
propoganda I received about this very book *warning* there are blurred body
parts! http://hahamommy.blogspot.com/2008/03/ken-barbie-are-republicans.html
)
*There's even a couple of cool sex shows on HBO "real sex" and a by topic
show with Katie Morgan (raised a *repressed* homeschooler who grew up to be
a porn star - surprise?)
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/katiemorgan/index.html
*MySpace - we saw a button that said "Everytime you see a rainbow, God's
having gay sex" Hayden and I giggled. The next time we saw a rainbow he said
"eh, looks like god's having butt sex" I laughed and clarified that butt sex
isn't just for gays and not all gays do that. Because it was in a moment of
humor, I didn't expand and it sunk in.
*TV & Pop Culture - Jamie Lynn Spears got pregnant while filming Zoey 101 --
perfect time for talking! (hypocricy, birth control, trust, relationships,
choices, etc, etc, etc). Family Guy is another great source of talk fodder -
Stewie's obsession with his parents' ability to continue to reproduce,
including his 1/2 brother via the spermbank (among others) - hilarious!
I guess the hardest part may be getting over your own voices in your own
head... the littler ones? they're just waiting to have a conversation :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
OMG....my biggest freak out of the week: I walked into the dining room to
realized I didn't like the tone... I was/am passionate about this poor kid,
ANY kid, really, whose sexuality has been invisible to their adults (or
worse, whose sexuality has been the cause of undiscussed and unidentified
stressors in their adults). This response is not intended specifically for
the OP, truly I want to catch parents *before* they end up in her
situation. Pretend I'm your bestest friend in the whole universe, the one
person who can get away with saying anything to you because you know it
comes from a place of great love, then read:
My first question is: You've had 13+ years to think about your child's
sexuality... what has your conversation been like, in your head,
up til now? Did you think you'd skate through your child's life and not
have to talk about healthy sexuality? Who would talk to them about sex
instead of you? Where are they going to get information if it cannot (at
least healthily) be accessed at home?
Maybe this is a wake-up call to anyone on this list who has yet to *begin*
thinking about their child as a sexual being. S/he is! There is (in my not
so humble opinion) no excuse for their sexual curiosity arriving as a
SURPRISE!! OF COURSE, kids are curious! They tend (in my experience) to be
curious about *everything* about being a human being - sexuality included!
My human sexuality conversation started one day when Hannah was very young,
circa 2, and we were looking at pictures of our honeymoon at Disneyland.
Hannah wanted us to take her to Disneyland *right now* -- and I said, "You
were there with me! You were an egg, waiting in line, hoping one day to
*poof* turn into a little girl for us to take *back* to Disneyland."
Talking about her potential babies always being with her, was a conversation
we continued, as it came up and as it expanded (i.e. Hayden is NOT carrying
his potential children with him his whole life), and even (especially) as
she began chemotherapy. It seemed so flowing and natural.
I don't think I got private toileting moments until the last 2 years
(hayden's now 10)... talking about Mommy's moon time is talking about human
sexuality. It's really, really that simple to get started.
The Unitarian Universalists and the United Church of Christ got together a
decade or so ago and created a comprehensive sex ed curriculum K-Adult,
called Our Whole Life
(OWL<http://www.uua.org/religiouseducation/curricula/ourwhole/>).
[there is an optional spiritual component to this set, the information
itself is not faith-based] My kids didn't go to the program, I didn't want
sexuality to be a CLASS, it was already like a nice thread throughout the
weave of our life (as it truly is!), so I can't speak to being a parent of
the program. I can speak as a facilitator for the two levels of teen courses
(11-14 & 15-18 roughly). I was incredibly glad to have the opportunity to
be a resource for these kids, I was incredibly sad when I discovered for
whom I was their first resource. We talked - a lot - and that seems to be
the one thing that young humans want from the older ones - an opportunity to
*have the conversation* - if not with you, then with another trusted adult
in your life.
This was a common thread throughout the conversations I've had with
unschooled teens - "Strew the info and find me a trusted someone to talk to
about it." Sometimes (and sorry, it is rare) they're comfortable fully with
their parents; the surprise to me was even the coolest parents in the world
weren't the perfect fit to talk intimate details about sex with. And it was
NOT a judgment against the parents in ANY WAY - it was a true expression of
comfort on the part of the young people.
Strewing ideas:
*The Joy of Sex (leave it on the bookshelf or coffee table)
*Our Bodies Our Selves (ditto)
*It's Perfectly
Normal<http://www.amazon.com/Its-Perfectly-Normal-Changing-Growing/dp/1564021599>(it
seems there is a lot of this available on line, in sections anyway, I
found the lovemaking and masturbation chapters on .pdf and on youtube, hee
hee, so I guess kids ARE reading it and sharing with their friends - YAY!
And of course, in the spirit of balance, I'll take you to my blogpost about
propoganda I received about this very book *warning* there are blurred body
parts! http://hahamommy.blogspot.com/2008/03/ken-barbie-are-republicans.html
)
*There's even a couple of cool sex shows on HBO "real sex" and a by topic
show with Katie Morgan (raised a *repressed* homeschooler who grew up to be
a porn star - surprise?)
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/katiemorgan/index.html
*MySpace - we saw a button that said "Everytime you see a rainbow, God's
having gay sex" Hayden and I giggled. The next time we saw a rainbow he said
"eh, looks like god's having butt sex" I laughed and clarified that butt sex
isn't just for gays and not all gays do that. Because it was in a moment of
humor, I didn't expand and it sunk in.
*TV & Pop Culture - Jamie Lynn Spears got pregnant while filming Zoey 101 --
perfect time for talking! (hypocricy, birth control, trust, relationships,
choices, etc, etc, etc). Family Guy is another great source of talk fodder -
Stewie's obsession with his parents' ability to continue to reproduce,
including his 1/2 brother via the spermbank (among others) - hilarious!
I guess the hardest part may be getting over your own voices in your own
head... the littler ones? they're just waiting to have a conversation :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
OMG....my biggest freak out of the week: I walked into the dining room to
> see Billy (13) on his laptop googling porn. <roll> Just what I need. Guy and[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> girl, and I was like PLEASE make my life easy and just be looking at girls
> (nice huh?). Neither dh or I have any healthy background on sexuality: he
> was beaten from two on for touching himself and STILL won't talk about sex
> after 15 years of marriage. I've handled all the issues with the kids, but I
> was molested and have such issues with porn. Makes me sick. I thought I
> handled it well, just said something like I'd rather he did that in his room
> so that the littles didn't see it. But I know I was raging hormones by his
> age, and my mom was blaming me for being molested and then raped; and I just
> do NOT know how to handle this. On top of everything, his sisters are still
> running around naked! ack! He doesn't know any girls his age. They are all
> his little sisters' ages or MUCH older, and they don't even see him as
> having experiment potential. I have no idea where to go with this. So now
> I'm like, what activity can I encourage him in to meet girls his age????
>
>
>
Professional Parenting
Another wonderful book for strewing is...
More Speaking of Sex, by Meg Hickling
Judy Arnall,
Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of
Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
www.professionalparenting.ca
http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
Tele: (403) 714-6766
Email jarnall@...
Peace in the world begins in the home
More Speaking of Sex, by Meg Hickling
Judy Arnall,
Parenting Speaker, Trainer and Author of
Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring,
Responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery
www.professionalparenting.ca
http://bureau.espeakers.com/caps/speaker.php?sid=10763&showreturntoresults=true
Tele: (403) 714-6766
Email jarnall@...
Peace in the world begins in the home
----- Original Message -----
From: diana jenner
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] porn issues
I began writing a response to this thread in the very beginning... and I
realized I didn't like the tone... I was/am passionate about this poor kid,
ANY kid, really, whose sexuality has been invisible to their adults (or
worse, whose sexuality has been the cause of undiscussed and unidentified
stressors in their adults). This response is not intended specifically for
the OP, truly I want to catch parents *before* they end up in her
situation. Pretend I'm your bestest friend in the whole universe, the one
person who can get away with saying anything to you because you know it
comes from a place of great love, then read:
My first question is: You've had 13+ years to think about your child's
sexuality... what has your conversation been like, in your head,
up til now? Did you think you'd skate through your child's life and not
have to talk about healthy sexuality? Who would talk to them about sex
instead of you? Where are they going to get information if it cannot (at
least healthily) be accessed at home?
Maybe this is a wake-up call to anyone on this list who has yet to *begin*
thinking about their child as a sexual being. S/he is! There is (in my not
so humble opinion) no excuse for their sexual curiosity arriving as a
SURPRISE!! OF COURSE, kids are curious! They tend (in my experience) to be
curious about *everything* about being a human being - sexuality included!
My human sexuality conversation started one day when Hannah was very young,
circa 2, and we were looking at pictures of our honeymoon at Disneyland.
Hannah wanted us to take her to Disneyland *right now* -- and I said, "You
were there with me! You were an egg, waiting in line, hoping one day to
*poof* turn into a little girl for us to take *back* to Disneyland."
Talking about her potential babies always being with her, was a conversation
we continued, as it came up and as it expanded (i.e. Hayden is NOT carrying
his potential children with him his whole life), and even (especially) as
she began chemotherapy. It seemed so flowing and natural.
I don't think I got private toileting moments until the last 2 years
(hayden's now 10)... talking about Mommy's moon time is talking about human
sexuality. It's really, really that simple to get started.
The Unitarian Universalists and the United Church of Christ got together a
decade or so ago and created a comprehensive sex ed curriculum K-Adult,
called Our Whole Life
(OWL<http://www.uua.org/religiouseducation/curricula/ourwhole/>).
[there is an optional spiritual component to this set, the information
itself is not faith-based] My kids didn't go to the program, I didn't want
sexuality to be a CLASS, it was already like a nice thread throughout the
weave of our life (as it truly is!), so I can't speak to being a parent of
the program. I can speak as a facilitator for the two levels of teen courses
(11-14 & 15-18 roughly). I was incredibly glad to have the opportunity to
be a resource for these kids, I was incredibly sad when I discovered for
whom I was their first resource. We talked - a lot - and that seems to be
the one thing that young humans want from the older ones - an opportunity to
*have the conversation* - if not with you, then with another trusted adult
in your life.
This was a common thread throughout the conversations I've had with
unschooled teens - "Strew the info and find me a trusted someone to talk to
about it." Sometimes (and sorry, it is rare) they're comfortable fully with
their parents; the surprise to me was even the coolest parents in the world
weren't the perfect fit to talk intimate details about sex with. And it was
NOT a judgment against the parents in ANY WAY - it was a true expression of
comfort on the part of the young people.
Strewing ideas:
*The Joy of Sex (leave it on the bookshelf or coffee table)
*Our Bodies Our Selves (ditto)
*It's Perfectly
Normal<http://www.amazon.com/Its-Perfectly-Normal-Changing-Growing/dp/1564021599>(it
seems there is a lot of this available on line, in sections anyway, I
found the lovemaking and masturbation chapters on .pdf and on youtube, hee
hee, so I guess kids ARE reading it and sharing with their friends - YAY!
And of course, in the spirit of balance, I'll take you to my blogpost about
propoganda I received about this very book *warning* there are blurred body
parts! http://hahamommy.blogspot.com/2008/03/ken-barbie-are-republicans.html
)
*There's even a couple of cool sex shows on HBO "real sex" and a by topic
show with Katie Morgan (raised a *repressed* homeschooler who grew up to be
a porn star - surprise?)
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/katiemorgan/index.html
*MySpace - we saw a button that said "Everytime you see a rainbow, God's
having gay sex" Hayden and I giggled. The next time we saw a rainbow he said
"eh, looks like god's having butt sex" I laughed and clarified that butt sex
isn't just for gays and not all gays do that. Because it was in a moment of
humor, I didn't expand and it sunk in.
*TV & Pop Culture - Jamie Lynn Spears got pregnant while filming Zoey 101 --
perfect time for talking! (hypocricy, birth control, trust, relationships,
choices, etc, etc, etc). Family Guy is another great source of talk fodder -
Stewie's obsession with his parents' ability to continue to reproduce,
including his 1/2 brother via the spermbank (among others) - hilarious!
I guess the hardest part may be getting over your own voices in your own
head... the littler ones? they're just waiting to have a conversation :D
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
OMG....my biggest freak out of the week: I walked into the dining room to
> see Billy (13) on his laptop googling porn. <roll> Just what I need. Guy and
> girl, and I was like PLEASE make my life easy and just be looking at girls
> (nice huh?). Neither dh or I have any healthy background on sexuality: he
> was beaten from two on for touching himself and STILL won't talk about sex
> after 15 years of marriage. I've handled all the issues with the kids, but I
> was molested and have such issues with porn. Makes me sick. I thought I
> handled it well, just said something like I'd rather he did that in his room
> so that the littles didn't see it. But I know I was raging hormones by his
> age, and my mom was blaming me for being molested and then raped; and I just
> do NOT know how to handle this. On top of everything, his sisters are still
> running around naked! ack! He doesn't know any girls his age. They are all
> his little sisters' ages or MUCH older, and they don't even see him as
> having experiment potential. I have no idea where to go with this. So now
> I'm like, what activity can I encourage him in to meet girls his age????
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: diana jenner <hahamommy@...>
Sometimes (and sorry, it is rare) they're comfortable fully with
their parents; the surprise to me was even the coolest parents in the world
weren't the perfect fit to talk intimate details about sex with. And it was
NOT a judgment against the parents in ANY WAY - it was a true expression of
comfort on the part of the young people.
************************************************************************
Thanks for bringing it up again, Diana!
As one of the "rare" and "coolest" parents <BWG>, it was nice for my son, Cameron (then 17-ish?) to have Diana to talk to a bit about sex. It's not that we haven't made it VERY accessible: we're very open, and I'm VERY willing to talk about it with both my boys.
But there's *something* about sex and the parent-child relationship that, I think, *should* have a tiny bit of distance within it. Not *much*, but there's probably some natural, species-protecting roadblock that keeps sex talk "within the family" at an appropriate distance. Does that make sense?
Cam and I got into a lot of detail, but Diana's distance from my family probably made it easier for Cam to talk to *her* about a few things. I could probably talk more comfortably with Hayden about an issue or two too. <g>
My point is that, even though you are extremely open with your child, s/he still may need some outside info for the questions that don't come up at home. NOT because you're
not accessible or willing to be open, honest, and frank. But because some things are possibly more...delicate...or more...personal than should be shared with your own child.
Some things are just more easily said---and *heard*---coming from a less intimate party.
I think a network of open adults is a GOOD thing---and I highly recommend Diana! <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." ~Gandhi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: diana jenner <hahamommy@...>
Sometimes (and sorry, it is rare) they're comfortable fully with
their parents; the surprise to me was even the coolest parents in the world
weren't the perfect fit to talk intimate details about sex with. And it was
NOT a judgment against the parents in ANY WAY - it was a true expression of
comfort on the part of the young people.
************************************************************************
Thanks for bringing it up again, Diana!
As one of the "rare" and "coolest" parents <BWG>, it was nice for my son, Cameron (then 17-ish?) to have Diana to talk to a bit about sex. It's not that we haven't made it VERY accessible: we're very open, and I'm VERY willing to talk about it with both my boys.
But there's *something* about sex and the parent-child relationship that, I think, *should* have a tiny bit of distance within it. Not *much*, but there's probably some natural, species-protecting roadblock that keeps sex talk "within the family" at an appropriate distance. Does that make sense?
Cam and I got into a lot of detail, but Diana's distance from my family probably made it easier for Cam to talk to *her* about a few things. I could probably talk more comfortably with Hayden about an issue or two too. <g>
My point is that, even though you are extremely open with your child, s/he still may need some outside info for the questions that don't come up at home. NOT because you're
not accessible or willing to be open, honest, and frank. But because some things are possibly more...delicate...or more...personal than should be shared with your own child.
Some things are just more easily said---and *heard*---coming from a less intimate party.
I think a network of open adults is a GOOD thing---and I highly recommend Diana! <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." ~Gandhi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
fantastic lover? I think that's an amazing factoid. And still, I don't want
to have the conversation with Hayden that I had with Cameron about just
that. I truly expect there to be a Kelly Lovejoy in his life when the time
arises for that conversation. That G-spot's a tricky thing ;)
And on comfort and sexuality and Cameron... He planned a trip for another
unschooling family and myself to the nearby hotsprings. There was lots of
talk about nudity and comfort... while we all got comfortable with one
another naked. Then suddenly we were all naked and comfortable and we had a
*BLAST* <3
Comfort with one's sexuality is an amazing thing to witness - I am eternally
grateful :)
I'll be at Life is Good, come this May, if anybody needs to talk ;)
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>**Yes! How cool is it to know that your son is committed to being a
> -----Original Message-----
> From: diana jenner <hahamommy@... <hahamommy%40gmail.com>>
>
> Sometimes (and sorry, it is rare) they're comfortable fully with
> their parents; the surprise to me was even the coolest parents in the world
> weren't the perfect fit to talk intimate details about sex with. And it was
> NOT a judgment against the parents in ANY WAY - it was a true expression of
> comfort on the part of the young people.
>
> ************************************************************************
>
> Thanks for bringing it up again, Diana!
>
> As one of the "rare" and "coolest" parents <BWG>, it was nice for my son,
> Cameron (then 17-ish?) to have Diana to talk to a bit about sex. It's not
> that we haven't made it VERY accessible: we're very open, and I'm VERY
> willing to talk about it with both my boys.
>
> But there's *something* about sex and the parent-child relationship that, I
> think, *should* have a tiny bit of distance within it. Not *much*, but
> there's probably some natural, species-protecting roadblock that keeps sex
> talk "within the family" at an appropriate distance. Does that make sense?
>
> Cam and I got into a lot of detail, but Diana's distance from my family
> probably made it easier for Cam to talk to *her* about a few things. I could
> probably talk more comfortably with Hayden about an issue or two too. <g>
>
fantastic lover? I think that's an amazing factoid. And still, I don't want
to have the conversation with Hayden that I had with Cameron about just
that. I truly expect there to be a Kelly Lovejoy in his life when the time
arises for that conversation. That G-spot's a tricky thing ;)
And on comfort and sexuality and Cameron... He planned a trip for another
unschooling family and myself to the nearby hotsprings. There was lots of
talk about nudity and comfort... while we all got comfortable with one
another naked. Then suddenly we were all naked and comfortable and we had a
*BLAST* <3
Comfort with one's sexuality is an amazing thing to witness - I am eternally
grateful :)
> My point is that, even though you are extremely open with your child, s/heaw shucks :) thanks!
> still may need some outside info for the questions that don't come up at
> home. NOT because you're not accessible or willing to be open, honest, and
> frank. But because some things are possibly more...delicate...or
> more...personal than should be shared with your own child.
>
> Some things are just more easily said---and *heard*---coming from a less
> intimate party.
>
> I think a network of open adults is a GOOD thing---and I highly recommend
> Diana! <G>
>
>
>
I'll be at Life is Good, come this May, if anybody needs to talk ;)
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brad Holcomb
I know this is a 2-week-old topic, but saw this interesting article today about online porn consumption in the USA.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16680-porn-in-the-usa-conservatives-are-biggest-consumers.html
(or http://preview.tinyurl.com/akrwhz)
The last sentence of the article is one that unschoolers will understand very well:
"One natural hypothesis is something like repression: if you're told you can't have this, then you want it more," Edelman says.
-=b.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16680-porn-in-the-usa-conservatives-are-biggest-consumers.html
(or http://preview.tinyurl.com/akrwhz)
The last sentence of the article is one that unschoolers will understand very well:
"One natural hypothesis is something like repression: if you're told you can't have this, then you want it more," Edelman says.
-=b.