wants vs. needs vs. frivolity
Kelly Lovejoy
I received a request to post this from a reader:
***************************
What do you do about a child who feels he isn't important or supported?
Mom and dad complain regularly about how little money they have, but they don't hesitate to buy expensive organic free trade coffee and indulge their own "expensive" wants/needs. So *their* wants are paid for. But when the child wants a computer or sports gear or lessons for example, it's considered a hardship, and the answer is NO.
How do you delineate wants vs needs vs frivolity?
The child feels that *his* wants and needs are seen as expensive extras that they simply can't afford. He feels powerless and unimportant. What can you do to empower him---and what secrets do you have for making your child feel that he IS important and that his needs and wants are as valid as yours?
*****************************
Thanks!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***************************
What do you do about a child who feels he isn't important or supported?
Mom and dad complain regularly about how little money they have, but they don't hesitate to buy expensive organic free trade coffee and indulge their own "expensive" wants/needs. So *their* wants are paid for. But when the child wants a computer or sports gear or lessons for example, it's considered a hardship, and the answer is NO.
How do you delineate wants vs needs vs frivolity?
The child feels that *his* wants and needs are seen as expensive extras that they simply can't afford. He feels powerless and unimportant. What can you do to empower him---and what secrets do you have for making your child feel that he IS important and that his needs and wants are as valid as yours?
*****************************
Thanks!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
da Slinky
This seems like a no brainier to me but then it assumes that the parents are indulging themselves and not the kids. The solution is to cut back on some of your expensive indulgences for the kids. What about if the parents really do not have money to indulge themselves either and the kids want everything they see? Then how to you make them feel important while not spending your rent money on frivolous things they are going to play with once and then be tired of ?
________________________________
From: Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 6:15:45 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] wants vs. needs vs. frivolity
I received a request to post this from a reader:
************ ********* ******
What do you do about a child who feels he isn't important or supported?
Mom and dad complain regularly about how little money they have, but they don't hesitate to buy expensive organic free trade coffee and indulge their own "expensive" wants/needs. So *their* wants are paid for. But when the child wants a computer or sports gear or lessons for example, it's considered a hardship, and the answer is NO.
How do you delineate wants vs needs vs frivolity?
The child feels that *his* wants and needs are seen as expensive extras that they simply can't afford. He feels powerless and unimportant. What can you do to empower him---and what secrets do you have for making your child feel that he IS important and that his needs and wants are as valid as yours?
************ ********* ********
Thanks!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________
From: Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 6:15:45 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] wants vs. needs vs. frivolity
I received a request to post this from a reader:
************ ********* ******
What do you do about a child who feels he isn't important or supported?
Mom and dad complain regularly about how little money they have, but they don't hesitate to buy expensive organic free trade coffee and indulge their own "expensive" wants/needs. So *their* wants are paid for. But when the child wants a computer or sports gear or lessons for example, it's considered a hardship, and the answer is NO.
How do you delineate wants vs needs vs frivolity?
The child feels that *his* wants and needs are seen as expensive extras that they simply can't afford. He feels powerless and unimportant. What can you do to empower him---and what secrets do you have for making your child feel that he IS important and that his needs and wants are as valid as yours?
************ ********* ********
Thanks!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
That makes me nuts...parents saying NO you can't have that, we can't
afford that...and then going out and spending $5 per day on coffee or
whatever THEY want. At our house, we have a "wish" board - stuff we'd
love to have, do, try, etc - for instance, DH and I want a grain grinder
to make our own flour (since DH makes all our dough products from
scratch anyhow from bagels to pizza). DS and DH want a Wii. DH would
like to go back and visit Lancaster County PA (he grew up down there in
large part). DS would like drums. I'd like an electric keyboard. Etc.
When the funds are available, we look at the list and see what item(s)
are highest priority and within the funds we have on hand. Sometimes, we
might get a lower priority item in order to get a couple things (a
smaller cappuccino plus a cookie instead of a large cappuccino). DS is,
in general, considered as an equal human being with equal access to the
resources of the household. Often, I think, adults who see their wants
as superseding their children's wants have a twofold 'tape' playing in
their heads - (1) "Now I'm a grownup and I work hard I can have anything
I want"...making up for the things they couldn't have/do when they were
kids (2) "You have to learn you can't have everything, you have to earn
it"... corollary to #1, holdover from a childhood of earning what they
wanted rather than having access to family resources whenever they were
available.
How to change the parents' thinking? No idea...
Deb R.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
afford that...and then going out and spending $5 per day on coffee or
whatever THEY want. At our house, we have a "wish" board - stuff we'd
love to have, do, try, etc - for instance, DH and I want a grain grinder
to make our own flour (since DH makes all our dough products from
scratch anyhow from bagels to pizza). DS and DH want a Wii. DH would
like to go back and visit Lancaster County PA (he grew up down there in
large part). DS would like drums. I'd like an electric keyboard. Etc.
When the funds are available, we look at the list and see what item(s)
are highest priority and within the funds we have on hand. Sometimes, we
might get a lower priority item in order to get a couple things (a
smaller cappuccino plus a cookie instead of a large cappuccino). DS is,
in general, considered as an equal human being with equal access to the
resources of the household. Often, I think, adults who see their wants
as superseding their children's wants have a twofold 'tape' playing in
their heads - (1) "Now I'm a grownup and I work hard I can have anything
I want"...making up for the things they couldn't have/do when they were
kids (2) "You have to learn you can't have everything, you have to earn
it"... corollary to #1, holdover from a childhood of earning what they
wanted rather than having access to family resources whenever they were
available.
How to change the parents' thinking? No idea...
Deb R.
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
discussion of how to make our own kids feel supported?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> What do you do about a child who feels he isn't important or...
> supported?
> How do you delineate wants vs needs vs frivolity?Is your question about how to support this child or a more general
discussion of how to make our own kids feel supported?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
balickgoodmanfamily
Kelly,
Were there other things on the list that the parents had? Did you get
a sense as to the type of parents there were?
One thing that struck me is that they are getting organic fair trade
coffee. Why? Healthy? Natural? Nourishing?
Would the parents be open to the son having the same type of
nourishment without the value judgments (e.g. in these situations, it
seems that the son wants to nourish his mind (computer, classes) and
body (sports)?
Another thought is has the family dissected what's expensive about the
son's needs? For example, if the son wants a computer, would they be
open to getting involved on craigslist or freecycle or doing some type
of barter? Getting clothes on sale or gently worn on ebay?
Again, not sure if any of this would work not knowing the parents, but
just some off the cuff thoughts.
Best, Lyssa
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
indulge their own "expensive" wants/needs. So *their* wants are paid
for. But when the child wants a computer or sports gear or lessons for
example, it's considered a hardship, and the answer is NO.
unimportant. What can you do to empower him---and what secrets do you
have for making your child feel that he IS important and that his
needs and wants are as valid as yours?
Were there other things on the list that the parents had? Did you get
a sense as to the type of parents there were?
One thing that struck me is that they are getting organic fair trade
coffee. Why? Healthy? Natural? Nourishing?
Would the parents be open to the son having the same type of
nourishment without the value judgments (e.g. in these situations, it
seems that the son wants to nourish his mind (computer, classes) and
body (sports)?
Another thought is has the family dissected what's expensive about the
son's needs? For example, if the son wants a computer, would they be
open to getting involved on craigslist or freecycle or doing some type
of barter? Getting clothes on sale or gently worn on ebay?
Again, not sure if any of this would work not knowing the parents, but
just some off the cuff thoughts.
Best, Lyssa
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>they don't hesitate to buy expensive organic free trade coffee and
>
> I received a request to post this from a reader:
>
>
>
>
> ***************************
>
>
>
>
> What do you do about a child who feels he isn't important or supported?
>
>
>
>
> Mom and dad complain regularly about how little money they have, but
indulge their own "expensive" wants/needs. So *their* wants are paid
for. But when the child wants a computer or sports gear or lessons for
example, it's considered a hardship, and the answer is NO.
>extras that they simply can't afford. He feels powerless and
>
>
>
> How do you delineate wants vs needs vs frivolity?
>
>
>
>
> The child feels that *his* wants and needs are seen as expensive
unimportant. What can you do to empower him---and what secrets do you
have for making your child feel that he IS important and that his
needs and wants are as valid as yours?
>
>
>
>
> *****************************
>
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Erin
This is an interesting question! I'm looking forward to what others
have to say. I really like the idea of the "wish board" that everyone
is able to put their wishes on.
We have recently started giving the kids an "allowance" that is
basically what we would spend anyway...it's just giving them access to
it whenever they want/need it without having to ask for the money. I'm
NOT expecting them to buy their own clothes or food or personal hygiene
products or anything like that, though. I think it's good for me to
keep in mind that I can (and will) still buy them things when we have
the money to do so. I was finding myself having to say "NO" a lot
because finances are tight around here, but making sure we're putting
money aside for them to spend on a weekly basis will hopefully be
freeing to all of us. We'll see :)
I would love to hear what others are doing regarding spending money and
kids!
have to say. I really like the idea of the "wish board" that everyone
is able to put their wishes on.
We have recently started giving the kids an "allowance" that is
basically what we would spend anyway...it's just giving them access to
it whenever they want/need it without having to ask for the money. I'm
NOT expecting them to buy their own clothes or food or personal hygiene
products or anything like that, though. I think it's good for me to
keep in mind that I can (and will) still buy them things when we have
the money to do so. I was finding myself having to say "NO" a lot
because finances are tight around here, but making sure we're putting
money aside for them to spend on a weekly basis will hopefully be
freeing to all of us. We'll see :)
I would love to hear what others are doing regarding spending money and
kids!
Kelly Lovejoy
A combo, I guess.
How can a child help get his parents to see what's important to HIM?
How can an adult friend help the child's parents see what they're doing to the child?
and
How can a parent understand how his choices make the child feel unimportant and un-empowered as well as how damaging this can be for the child?
I'm sorry I'm so...vague. It was a specific scenario that I am trying to generalize a bit.
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
How can a child help get his parents to see what's important to HIM?
How can an adult friend help the child's parents see what they're doing to the child?
and
How can a parent understand how his choices make the child feel unimportant and un-empowered as well as how damaging this can be for the child?
I'm sorry I'm so...vague. It was a specific scenario that I am trying to generalize a bit.
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
> What do you do about a child who feels he isn't important or
> supported?
...
> How do you delineate wants vs needs vs frivolity?
Is your question about how to support this child or a more general
discussion of how to make our own kids feel supported?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stacey Grimm
We give our kids a generous allowance and they have been using that to
pay for the things they want and they're both saving up for bigger
ticket items. So, that would be my recommendation to the parents -
give the kids a nice sized allowance! I'm not sure what to suggest to
someone who comes in contact with the child who is not the parent,
except to suggest that they politely do not discuss the child's fiscal
decisions with the child, at least not in a negative light - keep it
neutral at worst. There are other ways to make a child feel important
without bringing money into the picture. Spend time with him, talk to
him, include him in activities, and so on. Parents make financial
choices for reasons we often can't or don't see. ~Stacey
pay for the things they want and they're both saving up for bigger
ticket items. So, that would be my recommendation to the parents -
give the kids a nice sized allowance! I'm not sure what to suggest to
someone who comes in contact with the child who is not the parent,
except to suggest that they politely do not discuss the child's fiscal
decisions with the child, at least not in a negative light - keep it
neutral at worst. There are other ways to make a child feel important
without bringing money into the picture. Spend time with him, talk to
him, include him in activities, and so on. Parents make financial
choices for reasons we often can't or don't see. ~Stacey
On 12/9/08, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
> I received a request to post this from a reader:
>
>
>
>
> ***************************
>
>
>
>
> What do you do about a child who feels he isn't important or supported?
>
>
>
>
> Mom and dad complain regularly about how little money they have, but they
> don't hesitate to buy expensive organic free trade coffee and indulge their
> own "expensive" wants/needs. So *their* wants are paid for. But when the
> child wants a computer or sports gear or lessons for example, it's
> considered a hardship, and the answer is NO.
>
>
>
>
> How do you delineate wants vs needs vs frivolity?
>
>
>
>
> The child feels that *his* wants and needs are seen as expensive extras that
> they simply can't afford. He feels powerless and unimportant. What can you
> do to empower him---and what secrets do you have for making your child feel
> that he IS important and that his needs and wants are as valid as yours?
>
>
>
>
> *****************************
>
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
~Stacey
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: balickgoodmanfamily <catonsvillenanny@...>
Were there other things on the list that the parents had? Did you get
a sense as to the type of parents there were?
One thing that struck me is that they are getting organic fair trade
coffee. Why? Healthy? Natural? Nourishing?
Would the parents be open to the son having the same type of
nourishment without the value judgments (e.g. in these situations, it
seems that the son wants to nourish his mind (computer, classes) and
body (sports)?
Another thought is has the family dissected what's expensive about the
son's needs? For example, if the son wants a computer, would they be
open to getting involved on craigslist or freecycle or doing some type
of barter? Getting clothes on sale or gently worn on ebay?
Again, not sure if any of this would work not knowing the parents, but
just some off the cuff thoughts.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I know it's hard to respond without knowing much more about the family.
Thanks for tossing the idea around a bit.
I'm hoping that the parents will *start* thinking about the idea
that they are denying their child the kind of nourishment you're
describing. I think that's a VERY good way of looking at it!
I don't think they've yet thought all the other ways to acquire a computer.
It doesn't *have* to be a brand new 'puter from Best Buy. Some folks buy
new computers like *I* buy groceries! They just want THE most current20and
fastest on the market. Those folks toss old computers into landfills. I'm
sure they could find a nice one by asking around.
Lessons can be bartered, and equipment can be borrowed and bought used.
It's just that there are sooo many more options for getting your children
what they need. We also have a "Dream Board"---like Deb. It lists all sorts
of things big and small for now and in the future. Helps us focus a bit
more---AND see where our priorities are. We've all had to adjust just a tad
since having to buy a new refrigerator and finding out that Cameron needs
his wisdom teeth cut out in January and that Duncan needs braces. Priorities.
But we don't divide what the adults want/need vs what the kids want/need. We
try to look at all wants AS needs. The only "*need* that outranks others is
Ben's need for an adequate amount of sleep at night: HE is the money maker
here, and he can't get more sleep in the middle of the day like the rest of us.
But otherwise, we try to look at what we want individually and try to make it
happen. A pet peeve of mine is a mom who will buy herself a $4.00 cup of coffee
but will deny her three year old a $2.00 toy due to a lack of funds.
(OH--and DEb, I'll look in the attic and see whether we have an old keyboard. I
might be able to cross off something on your list! <g>)
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: balickgoodmanfamily <catonsvillenanny@...>
Were there other things on the list that the parents had? Did you get
a sense as to the type of parents there were?
One thing that struck me is that they are getting organic fair trade
coffee. Why? Healthy? Natural? Nourishing?
Would the parents be open to the son having the same type of
nourishment without the value judgments (e.g. in these situations, it
seems that the son wants to nourish his mind (computer, classes) and
body (sports)?
Another thought is has the family dissected what's expensive about the
son's needs? For example, if the son wants a computer, would they be
open to getting involved on craigslist or freecycle or doing some type
of barter? Getting clothes on sale or gently worn on ebay?
Again, not sure if any of this would work not knowing the parents, but
just some off the cuff thoughts.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I know it's hard to respond without knowing much more about the family.
Thanks for tossing the idea around a bit.
I'm hoping that the parents will *start* thinking about the idea
that they are denying their child the kind of nourishment you're
describing. I think that's a VERY good way of looking at it!
I don't think they've yet thought all the other ways to acquire a computer.
It doesn't *have* to be a brand new 'puter from Best Buy. Some folks buy
new computers like *I* buy groceries! They just want THE most current20and
fastest on the market. Those folks toss old computers into landfills. I'm
sure they could find a nice one by asking around.
Lessons can be bartered, and equipment can be borrowed and bought used.
It's just that there are sooo many more options for getting your children
what they need. We also have a "Dream Board"---like Deb. It lists all sorts
of things big and small for now and in the future. Helps us focus a bit
more---AND see where our priorities are. We've all had to adjust just a tad
since having to buy a new refrigerator and finding out that Cameron needs
his wisdom teeth cut out in January and that Duncan needs braces. Priorities.
But we don't divide what the adults want/need vs what the kids want/need. We
try to look at all wants AS needs. The only "*need* that outranks others is
Ben's need for an adequate amount of sleep at night: HE is the money maker
here, and he can't get more sleep in the middle of the day like the rest of us.
But otherwise, we try to look at what we want individually and try to make it
happen. A pet peeve of mine is a mom who will buy herself a $4.00 cup of coffee
but will deny her three year old a $2.00 toy due to a lack of funds.
(OH--and DEb, I'll look in the attic and see whether we have an old keyboard. I
might be able to cross off something on your list! <g>)
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
This seems like a no brainier to me but then it assumes that the parents are
indulging themselves and not the kids. The solution is to cut back on some of
your expensive indulgences for the kids. What about if the parents really do
not have money to indulge themselves either and the kids want everything they
see? Then how to you make them feel important while not spending your rent
money on frivolous things they are going to play with once and then be tired of?
-=-=-=-
If a parent does not have the $$ to indulge herSELF, why is she doing it? If she has
enough to indulge herself, why can't she indulge the child?
MANY kids want everything they see. <g> They're kids. The ones who are denied everything
as kids are the ones that grow up wanting sooo much as adults. Then they deny their own
children things because they have that power and want it all for themselves.
It's not the "rent money" that's the issue. It's money that is considered "disposable"
for the parents, but NOT for the children.
Why doesn't the child rank as high as the adult?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
This seems like a no brainier to me but then it assumes that the parents are
indulging themselves and not the kids. The solution is to cut back on some of
your expensive indulgences for the kids. What about if the parents really do
not have money to indulge themselves either and the kids want everything they
see? Then how to you make them feel important while not spending your rent
money on frivolous things they are going to play with once and then be tired of?
-=-=-=-
If a parent does not have the $$ to indulge herSELF, why is she doing it? If she has
enough to indulge herself, why can't she indulge the child?
MANY kids want everything they see. <g> They're kids. The ones who are denied everything
as kids are the ones that grow up wanting sooo much as adults. Then they deny their own
children things because they have that power and want it all for themselves.
It's not the "rent money" that's the issue. It's money that is considered "disposable"
for the parents, but NOT for the children.
Why doesn't the child rank as high as the adult?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
I saw that a lot when I hung out with AP parents. It was very hard to be
around. Such unnecessary struggles. I found that I really had to stop being
friends with certain people after a while. It just hurt too much to see the
dynamic.
We have no disposable income on a regular basis so a wish board is really
important to us.
around. Such unnecessary struggles. I found that I really had to stop being
friends with certain people after a while. It just hurt too much to see the
dynamic.
We have no disposable income on a regular basis so a wish board is really
important to us.
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> -
>
> If a parent does not have the $$ to indulge herSELF, why is she doing it?
> If she has
>
> enough to indulge herself, why can't she indulge the child?
>
> MANY kids want everything they see. <g> They're kids. T
>
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: Stacey Grimm <taboulichic@...>
We give our kids a generous allowance and they have been using that to
pay for the things they want and they're both saving up for bigger
ticket items. So, that would be my recommendation to the parents -
give the kids a nice sized allowance!
-=-=-=-=-
I like the idea of generous allowances (especially if not tied to chores!). How much is generous to you?
We give Duncan (12) $10/week. That's easy for him to save up for a used game in two weeks or a new one in a month. He doesn't really have to pay for anything else. I cover all the other stuff in his life. We're discussing upping it next year.
I pay for clothes, food, lessons and/or equipment, trips, and subcriptions (netflix, WoW, gamefly).
-=-=-=-=-=-
I'm not sure what to suggest to
someone who comes in contact with the child who is not the parent,
except to suggest that they politely do not discuss the child's fiscal
decisions with the child, at least not in a negative light - keep it
neutral at worst.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The issue is that the child unloads to his adult friend. She's someone he trusts.
*Trust* is such a key word here. If a child doesn't feel he can go to his parents with a serious problem, it's good that he has *someone* who will listen.
I know that I've been the sympathetic ear and soft shoulder to numerous friends20of both my boys. I don't hide my disappointment in the way their parents treat them. I can't. I *can* empathize and brainstorm other ways for them to conquer their problems. And they spend enough time *here* that they know it doesn't HAVE To be that way at their homes either. I try to give them tools they can use at home to change things.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
There are other ways to make a child feel important
without bringing money into the picture.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Certainly!
I remember standing in a grocery line when I was a young teen. A toddler was screaming
bloody murder to get a toy or piece of candy while his mother completely ignored him.
My father leaned down and said, "He doesn't want that piece of candy nearly as much as
he wants his mom to pick him up and hug him."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Spend time with him, talk to
him, include him in activities, and so on. Parents make financial
choices for reasons we often can't or don't see.
-=-=-=-=-
Maybe. We can't KNOW someone else's financial situation.
BUT...if mom's choosing $30 coffee but won't buy a $20 soccer ball, something's screwy. Or
if the parents are making up excuses for not getting a computer, priorities ned to be examined.
Unschooling isn't about saving $$. When we took Cameron out of a private school, we didn't figure
we'd be *saving* money: we decided to spend the same amount on his education---just in a different
wa
y. Even public schools cost $$. The cost of lunches and books and uniforms should be the
MINIMUM an unschooling parent spends on his child's unschooling education.
We look at (sports and music) lessons and computers and travel and books and art supplies as a
HUGE part OF their education. I don't see any of that as "frivolous"---even if (or maybe
*especially* if) the interest is short-lived.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Stacey Grimm <taboulichic@...>
We give our kids a generous allowance and they have been using that to
pay for the things they want and they're both saving up for bigger
ticket items. So, that would be my recommendation to the parents -
give the kids a nice sized allowance!
-=-=-=-=-
I like the idea of generous allowances (especially if not tied to chores!). How much is generous to you?
We give Duncan (12) $10/week. That's easy for him to save up for a used game in two weeks or a new one in a month. He doesn't really have to pay for anything else. I cover all the other stuff in his life. We're discussing upping it next year.
I pay for clothes, food, lessons and/or equipment, trips, and subcriptions (netflix, WoW, gamefly).
-=-=-=-=-=-
I'm not sure what to suggest to
someone who comes in contact with the child who is not the parent,
except to suggest that they politely do not discuss the child's fiscal
decisions with the child, at least not in a negative light - keep it
neutral at worst.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The issue is that the child unloads to his adult friend. She's someone he trusts.
*Trust* is such a key word here. If a child doesn't feel he can go to his parents with a serious problem, it's good that he has *someone* who will listen.
I know that I've been the sympathetic ear and soft shoulder to numerous friends20of both my boys. I don't hide my disappointment in the way their parents treat them. I can't. I *can* empathize and brainstorm other ways for them to conquer their problems. And they spend enough time *here* that they know it doesn't HAVE To be that way at their homes either. I try to give them tools they can use at home to change things.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
There are other ways to make a child feel important
without bringing money into the picture.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Certainly!
I remember standing in a grocery line when I was a young teen. A toddler was screaming
bloody murder to get a toy or piece of candy while his mother completely ignored him.
My father leaned down and said, "He doesn't want that piece of candy nearly as much as
he wants his mom to pick him up and hug him."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Spend time with him, talk to
him, include him in activities, and so on. Parents make financial
choices for reasons we often can't or don't see.
-=-=-=-=-
Maybe. We can't KNOW someone else's financial situation.
BUT...if mom's choosing $30 coffee but won't buy a $20 soccer ball, something's screwy. Or
if the parents are making up excuses for not getting a computer, priorities ned to be examined.
Unschooling isn't about saving $$. When we took Cameron out of a private school, we didn't figure
we'd be *saving* money: we decided to spend the same amount on his education---just in a different
wa
y. Even public schools cost $$. The cost of lunches and books and uniforms should be the
MINIMUM an unschooling parent spends on his child's unschooling education.
We look at (sports and music) lessons and computers and travel and books and art supplies as a
HUGE part OF their education. I don't see any of that as "frivolous"---even if (or maybe
*especially* if) the interest is short-lived.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
My husband, Ben, says the two things that can ruin a friendship are
1) the person you choose to marry
2) the way you choose to rear your kids.
And it's funny with a Wish Board: sometimes a friend or relative will be over, read our Dream Board, and say, "I didn't know you wanted THAT! I have one up in the attic!" or "Can I help you build that chicken yard? I'd love some fresh eggs!" <BWG>
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
I saw that a lot when I hung out with AP parents. It was very hard to be
around. Such unnecessary struggles. I found that I really had to stop being
friends with certain people after a while. It just hurt too much to see the
dynamic.
We have no disposable income on a regular basis so a wish board is really
important to us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1) the person you choose to marry
2) the way you choose to rear your kids.
And it's funny with a Wish Board: sometimes a friend or relative will be over, read our Dream Board, and say, "I didn't know you wanted THAT! I have one up in the attic!" or "Can I help you build that chicken yard? I'd love some fresh eggs!" <BWG>
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
I saw that a lot when I hung out with AP parents. It was very hard to be
around. Such unnecessary struggles. I found that I really had to stop being
friends with certain people after a while. It just hurt too much to see the
dynamic.
We have no disposable income on a regular basis so a wish board is really
important to us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Erin
I would love to know what others consider to be a generous allowance?
We just started the allowance thing and with 6 kids it gets
expensive!!! Do you give each child an equal amount or do you give
them an amount based on their age?
--- In [email protected], "Stacey Grimm"
<taboulichic@...> wrote:
We just started the allowance thing and with 6 kids it gets
expensive!!! Do you give each child an equal amount or do you give
them an amount based on their age?
--- In [email protected], "Stacey Grimm"
<taboulichic@...> wrote:
>
> We give our kids a generous allowance and they have been using that to
> pay for the things they want and they're both saving up for bigger
> ticket items. So, that would be my recommendation to the parents -
> give the kids a nice sized allowance!
da Slinky
Perhaps the adult friend of the child could help the child to find ways to attain what they need. Help them find a way to present their needs to their parents with a plan for filling them. For instance you could present the logical reasons for needing a computer, what kind of computer is needed including how much memory and what kind of video card and possibly the options for obtaining the computer and the costs for those options.
Same with the sports equipment.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Same with the sports equipment.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
da Slinky
Sigh, never mind. Perhaps I will ask again later with this topic has run the course. I was not talking about the person mentioned in the original post. I would love to see a discussion on wants vs needs vs frivolity not associated with this specific situation.
________________________________
If a parent does not have the $$ to indulge herSELF, why is she doing it? If she has
enough to indulge herself, why can't she indulge the child?
MANY kids want everything they see. <g> They're kids. The ones who are denied everything
as kids are the ones that grow up wanting sooo much as adults. Then they deny their own
children things because they have that power and want it all for themselves.
It's not the "rent money" that's the issue. It's money that is considered "disposable"
for the parents, but NOT for the children.
Why doesn't the child rank as high as the adult?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________
If a parent does not have the $$ to indulge herSELF, why is she doing it? If she has
enough to indulge herself, why can't she indulge the child?
MANY kids want everything they see. <g> They're kids. The ones who are denied everything
as kids are the ones that grow up wanting sooo much as adults. Then they deny their own
children things because they have that power and want it all for themselves.
It's not the "rent money" that's the issue. It's money that is considered "disposable"
for the parents, but NOT for the children.
Why doesn't the child rank as high as the adult?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Erin
How would you guys handle multiple children getting an allowance? We
are matching our kids ages with their weekly allowance...so our 6 year
old is getting $6 a week, our 9 year old is getting $9 a week, our 10
year old is getting $10 a week, our 12 year old is getting $12 a week,
and our two 14 year olds are each getting $14 a week. The kids are all
very pleased with what they are getting...and VERY happy that it is NOT
tied to any sort of chore/performance/behavior in order to earn it!
But, I wonder if we should just give them each the same amount. Why
should the 6 year old have to wait longer to get the game she wants,
etc?! Then again, as they get older there are things that are more
important to them that cost more money...like Hollister jeans** and an
iPod touch! I think we'll stick to what we're doing and I'll just help
the younger ones out when they need it.
**I'm certainly willing to buy my kids clothing, btw...but I am NOT
willing to spend $100 on a pair of jeans! We do go looking at Good
Will and our local resale shop, but finding those big name brands
doesn't happen very often :)
I'd still love to know what others are doing when they have multiple
kids of varying ages. It gets a little tricky!
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
to pay for anything else. I cover all the other stuff in his life.
We're discussing upping it next year.
are matching our kids ages with their weekly allowance...so our 6 year
old is getting $6 a week, our 9 year old is getting $9 a week, our 10
year old is getting $10 a week, our 12 year old is getting $12 a week,
and our two 14 year olds are each getting $14 a week. The kids are all
very pleased with what they are getting...and VERY happy that it is NOT
tied to any sort of chore/performance/behavior in order to earn it!
But, I wonder if we should just give them each the same amount. Why
should the 6 year old have to wait longer to get the game she wants,
etc?! Then again, as they get older there are things that are more
important to them that cost more money...like Hollister jeans** and an
iPod touch! I think we'll stick to what we're doing and I'll just help
the younger ones out when they need it.
**I'm certainly willing to buy my kids clothing, btw...but I am NOT
willing to spend $100 on a pair of jeans! We do go looking at Good
Will and our local resale shop, but finding those big name brands
doesn't happen very often :)
I'd still love to know what others are doing when they have multiple
kids of varying ages. It gets a little tricky!
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> I like the idea of generous allowances (especially if not tied tochores!). How much is generous to you?
>used game in two weeks or a new one in a month. He doesn't really have
> We give Duncan (12) $10/week. That's easy for him to save up for a
to pay for anything else. I cover all the other stuff in his life.
We're discussing upping it next year.
> I pay for clothes, food, lessons and/or equipment, trips, andsubcriptions (netflix, WoW, gamefly).
Faith Void
I never finished my previous post as I was suddenly needed and hit send
instead of save :-)
At our house we give money out when it comes in. My dh doesn't get paid
regularly so it always looks different. We do biweekly allowances per age (6
year old= $6, etc). My kids are (almost)12, 6 and 1. When we get larger
chunks of money we sit down together and work out the disposable income. The
adults pay the bills then what's leftover we divide up off our vision board.
It is different each time but the fact that remains the same is each person
is equal. If anything my dh or I will forgo if money is really tight because
we have pacience.
The other thing I wanted to write about is the adult listner. I find myself
in that position with the neighborhood (schooled) kids frequently. I say
what I can to listen and validate their experience. It hurts them that their
parent/s don't liste/accept/support them. I have no idea what to do if the
parent is also a friend or fellow unschooler.
Faith
instead of save :-)
At our house we give money out when it comes in. My dh doesn't get paid
regularly so it always looks different. We do biweekly allowances per age (6
year old= $6, etc). My kids are (almost)12, 6 and 1. When we get larger
chunks of money we sit down together and work out the disposable income. The
adults pay the bills then what's leftover we divide up off our vision board.
It is different each time but the fact that remains the same is each person
is equal. If anything my dh or I will forgo if money is really tight because
we have pacience.
The other thing I wanted to write about is the adult listner. I find myself
in that position with the neighborhood (schooled) kids frequently. I say
what I can to listen and validate their experience. It hurts them that their
parent/s don't liste/accept/support them. I have no idea what to do if the
parent is also a friend or fellow unschooler.
Faith
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Erin <theburkemommy@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'd still love to know what others are doing when they have multiple
> kids of varying ages. It gets a little tricky!
>
> ---
>
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
AHA! This is why I lack friends :-)
Faith
Faith
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
> My husband, Ben, says the two things that can ruin a friendship are
>
> 1) the person you choose to marry
>
> 2) the way you choose to rear your kids.
>
> .
>
>
>
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
**I'm certainly willing to buy my kids clothing, btw...but I am NOT
not?
My mother use to give my sister and I the same budget for clothing. I was
happy with thrift store clothes but my sister wanted name brands. She needed
them. She would buy low price items that didn't matter like t-shirts etc
than flesh out her wardrobe with a few high ticket items that really
mattered to her. Like guess jeans and white reebok sneakers (think 80's). It
really mattered to her.
None of my kids care but I would certainly find a way to get creative and
meet that need. Craigslist lets you put wanted ads on. Many resale shops let
you create wish lists as well. Or birthday gifts or whatever.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> willing to spend $100 on a pair of jeans! We do go looking at GoodI am wondering why not. If that was what your child truly wanted then why
> Will and our local resale shop, but finding those big name brands
> doesn't happen very often :)
>
not?
My mother use to give my sister and I the same budget for clothing. I was
happy with thrift store clothes but my sister wanted name brands. She needed
them. She would buy low price items that didn't matter like t-shirts etc
than flesh out her wardrobe with a few high ticket items that really
mattered to her. Like guess jeans and white reebok sneakers (think 80's). It
really mattered to her.
None of my kids care but I would certainly find a way to get creative and
meet that need. Craigslist lets you put wanted ads on. Many resale shops let
you create wish lists as well. Or birthday gifts or whatever.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stacey Grimm
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
to give them an allowance. DH is comforted by telling himself - and
keeping it to himself - that the kids will learn the value to money if
they have their own to spend. He and I never - believe me when I say,
"never"! - suggest that to the kiddos.
or new, video game every week. Instead he's saving up for ...
something. Sometimes it's an Xbox360, sometimes it's a basic laptop,
now it's a Nintendo64 and some accompanying games. He has quite a bit
of money amassed for a 12 year old boy, although I know not as much as
some others his age.
buy above and beyond that if they want. Ex: I'm more than happy to buy
DD(14) shampoo, but she wants BedHead specifically - the difference is
$10+, so she buys that for herself. I'd buy her underwear, but she has
done that on her own of her own accord.
friends too) that we can't do for them because we're broke, but then
I'll go buy Fair Trade Organic coffee beans. What they're not telling
you - being that they are *in the moment* - is all of the things that
we *do* do for them. The piano lessons, the soccer gear, the brand new
shoes, the trip to Chinatown NYC for a birthday, etc etc. I wonder if
there's a side of the story that the adult friend isn't hearing?
--
~Stacey
> -----Original Message-----We recently stopped tying money to chores. We give them an allowance
> From: Stacey Grimm <taboulichic@...>
>
> We give our kids a generous allowance and they have been using that to
> pay for the things they want and they're both saving up for bigger
> ticket items. So, that would be my recommendation to the parents -
> give the kids a nice sized allowance!
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> I like the idea of generous allowances (especially if not tied to chores!).
to give them an allowance. DH is comforted by telling himself - and
keeping it to himself - that the kids will learn the value to money if
they have their own to spend. He and I never - believe me when I say,
"never"! - suggest that to the kiddos.
> How much is generous to you?Both kids get $30/wk each. If DS(12) wanted to, he could buy a used,
>
> We give Duncan (12) $10/week. That's easy for him to save up for a used game
> in two weeks or a new one in a month. He doesn't really have to pay for
> anything else. I cover all the other stuff in his life. We're discussing
> upping it next year.
or new, video game every week. Instead he's saving up for ...
something. Sometimes it's an Xbox360, sometimes it's a basic laptop,
now it's a Nintendo64 and some accompanying games. He has quite a bit
of money amassed for a 12 year old boy, although I know not as much as
some others his age.
> I pay for clothes, food, lessons and/or equipment, trips, and subcriptionsHere's where we differ somewhat. We pay for basics, and the kids can
> (netflix, WoW, gamefly).
buy above and beyond that if they want. Ex: I'm more than happy to buy
DD(14) shampoo, but she wants BedHead specifically - the difference is
$10+, so she buys that for herself. I'd buy her underwear, but she has
done that on her own of her own accord.
> The issue is that the child unloads to his adult friend. She's someone heY'know, sometimes my kids lament to our friends (who tend to be their
> trusts.
friends too) that we can't do for them because we're broke, but then
I'll go buy Fair Trade Organic coffee beans. What they're not telling
you - being that they are *in the moment* - is all of the things that
we *do* do for them. The piano lessons, the soccer gear, the brand new
shoes, the trip to Chinatown NYC for a birthday, etc etc. I wonder if
there's a side of the story that the adult friend isn't hearing?
> *Trust* is such a key word here. If a child doesn't feel he can go to hisAbsolutely!
> parents with a serious problem, it's good that he has *someone* who will
> listen.
> I know that I've been the sympathetic ear and soft shoulder to numerousSounds like you're a good and valuable friend. They're lucky. :-)
> friends20of both my boys. I don't hide my disappointment in the way their
> parents treat them. I can't. I *can* empathize and brainstorm other ways for
> them to conquer their problems. And they spend enough time *here* that they
> know it doesn't HAVE To be that way at their homes either. I try to give
> them tools they can use at home to change things.
--
~Stacey
Erin
I DO take her to Good Will and the resale shops in our area looking
for the jeans she wants. I DO buy her brand name jeans that are more
in our budget than Hollister jeans!!! I DO offer to pay what I would
pay for a more affordable pair of jeans towarsds the jeans she
wants. I also mentioned that she gets an allowance every week and
she can save to buy those $100 jeans if she really wants them.
I already mentioned in my post that I do whatever I can to help her
get the jeans she wants!!!
--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
for the jeans she wants. I DO buy her brand name jeans that are more
in our budget than Hollister jeans!!! I DO offer to pay what I would
pay for a more affordable pair of jeans towarsds the jeans she
wants. I also mentioned that she gets an allowance every week and
she can save to buy those $100 jeans if she really wants them.
I already mentioned in my post that I do whatever I can to help her
get the jeans she wants!!!
--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>then why
> **I'm certainly willing to buy my kids clothing, btw...but I am NOT
>
> > willing to spend $100 on a pair of jeans! We do go looking at Good
> > Will and our local resale shop, but finding those big name brands
> > doesn't happen very often :)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> I am wondering why not. If that was what your child truly wanted
> not?I was
>
> My mother use to give my sister and I the same budget for clothing.
> happy with thrift store clothes but my sister wanted name brands.She needed
> them. She would buy low price items that didn't matter like t-shirts etc
> than flesh out her wardrobe with a few high ticket items that really80's). It
> mattered to her. Like guess jeans and white reebok sneakers (think
> really mattered to her.creative and
>
> None of my kids care but I would certainly find a way to get
> meet that need. Craigslist lets you put wanted ads on. Many resaleshops let
> you create wish lists as well. Or birthday gifts or whatever.
>
> Faith
>
>
>
> --
> http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
> www.bearthmama.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Erin
So you guys give out $60/week and we give out $66/ week...so that is
a fairly generous amount :)
I felt a little jumped on when I was asked why I wouldn't buy my
daughter the $100 Hollister jeans, but I see that you also don't buy
a bottle of shampoo that costs $10 more than the other affordable
shampoo you would buy! I am more than willing to put $20-$25 towards
her desired Hollister jeans purchase IF she is in need of another
pair of jeans. I just bought all of the kids 5 pairs of jeans each.
My other 5 children could care less what brand they are, but my 14 yo
dd on the other hand wants brand name. I have NEVER made her feel
badly about wanting brand name! I have always tried to help her find
them for cheaper when possible. I truly couldn't afford Hollister
jeans, so I told her I could buy her 1 pair of Hollister jeans or 5
pairs of cheaper jeans. She opted for 5 pairs of cheaper jeans...and
I ended up buying her jeans from Aeropostale (online for $12-$20 each
pair)! The other kids got their jeans from Walmart and Target for
about $10-$18...and everyone is happy. She also has one pair of
Hollister jeans that were given to us as hand-me-downs last year.
They have a hole in the pocket, so just the other day my hubby and I
took them to a woman who does complicated clothing repairs and we're
paying $17 towards the $27 repair. I just bought her 5 pairs of
jeans and our finances are really tight right now, so she is very
willing put $10 out of her $14 weekly allowance towards fixing the
jeans.
We all do this thing we do differently and I am happy to see/accept
that! I think the fact that some of us have 1 child and some of us
have 4 or 6 or 8 children makes a big difference in how we can each
handle money/allowance when it comes to our children's needs/wants.
--- In [email protected], "Stacey Grimm"
<taboulichic@...> wrote:
a fairly generous amount :)
I felt a little jumped on when I was asked why I wouldn't buy my
daughter the $100 Hollister jeans, but I see that you also don't buy
a bottle of shampoo that costs $10 more than the other affordable
shampoo you would buy! I am more than willing to put $20-$25 towards
her desired Hollister jeans purchase IF she is in need of another
pair of jeans. I just bought all of the kids 5 pairs of jeans each.
My other 5 children could care less what brand they are, but my 14 yo
dd on the other hand wants brand name. I have NEVER made her feel
badly about wanting brand name! I have always tried to help her find
them for cheaper when possible. I truly couldn't afford Hollister
jeans, so I told her I could buy her 1 pair of Hollister jeans or 5
pairs of cheaper jeans. She opted for 5 pairs of cheaper jeans...and
I ended up buying her jeans from Aeropostale (online for $12-$20 each
pair)! The other kids got their jeans from Walmart and Target for
about $10-$18...and everyone is happy. She also has one pair of
Hollister jeans that were given to us as hand-me-downs last year.
They have a hole in the pocket, so just the other day my hubby and I
took them to a woman who does complicated clothing repairs and we're
paying $17 towards the $27 repair. I just bought her 5 pairs of
jeans and our finances are really tight right now, so she is very
willing put $10 out of her $14 weekly allowance towards fixing the
jeans.
We all do this thing we do differently and I am happy to see/accept
that! I think the fact that some of us have 1 child and some of us
have 4 or 6 or 8 children makes a big difference in how we can each
handle money/allowance when it comes to our children's needs/wants.
--- In [email protected], "Stacey Grimm"
<taboulichic@...> wrote:
> Here's where we differ somewhat. We pay for basics, and the kids canbuy
> buy above and beyond that if they want. Ex: I'm more than happy to
> DD(14) shampoo, but she wants BedHead specifically - the differenceis
> $10+, so she buys that for herself.
Kelly Lovejoy
Times have changed! <g> When I was a child, my brother and I each got a quarter/week. That's also how much I got per HOUR as a babysitter (1973)!
Duncan (12) gets $20 every other week. Cameron (20) gets $50, and that is supposed to kind of cover gas. It does *now*, but it didn't come close three months ago! <g>
Duncan's will go up next year; and Cameron is probably moving out, so his will stop then.
With six? I have no idea. Maybe some larger families will pipe up. <g>
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Erin <theburkemommy@...>
I would love to know what others consider to be a generous allowance?
We just started the allowance thing and with 6 kids it gets
expensive!!! Do you give each child an equal amount or do you give
them an amount based on their age?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Duncan (12) gets $20 every other week. Cameron (20) gets $50, and that is supposed to kind of cover gas. It does *now*, but it didn't come close three months ago! <g>
Duncan's will go up next year; and Cameron is probably moving out, so his will stop then.
With six? I have no idea. Maybe some larger families will pipe up. <g>
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Erin <theburkemommy@...>
I would love to know what others consider to be a generous allowance?
We just started the allowance thing and with 6 kids it gets
expensive!!! Do you give each child an equal amount or do you give
them an amount based on their age?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stacey Grimm
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Erin <theburkemommy@...> wrote:
sure if you meant to imply I was.
I guess I could put $2 towards her BedHead shampoo, but y'know there's
just a point which offering a small amount of money appears more an
insult than a gesture of assistance.
svelt and sexy all over? Not sure I'd want to put out that kind of
money either for a few pieces of denim sewn together with a name
branded patch sewn on.
"High fashion" is UNbelievable.
My DD(14) is quite the fashionista, BUT she goes out of her way to put
together affordable, nay discounted!, pieces together to create her
own style. She's quite adept at it. :-)
--
~Stacey
> So you guys give out $60/week and we give out $66/ week...so that isYeah, I think so. :-)
> a fairly generous amount :)
> I felt a little jumped on when I was asked why I wouldn't buy myLet met just interject that I wasn't the one doing the jumping. Not
> daughter the $100 Hollister jeans, but I see that you also don't buy
> a bottle of shampoo that costs $10 more than the other affordable
sure if you meant to imply I was.
I guess I could put $2 towards her BedHead shampoo, but y'know there's
just a point which offering a small amount of money appears more an
insult than a gesture of assistance.
> shampoo you would buy! I am more than willing to put $20-$25 towardsI've never heard of these "Hollister" jeans. Do they make you look
> her desired Hollister jeans purchase IF she is in need of another
svelt and sexy all over? Not sure I'd want to put out that kind of
money either for a few pieces of denim sewn together with a name
branded patch sewn on.
"High fashion" is UNbelievable.
My DD(14) is quite the fashionista, BUT she goes out of her way to put
together affordable, nay discounted!, pieces together to create her
own style. She's quite adept at it. :-)
--
~Stacey
Kelly Lovejoy
<snort>
Well, the GOOD thing about that is you get to make NEW friends who SHARE your love of your spouse and the way you rear your kids! <bwg>
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
AHA! This is why I lack friends :-)
Faith
Well, the GOOD thing about that is you get to make NEW friends who SHARE your love of your spouse and the way you rear your kids! <bwg>
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>
AHA! This is why I lack friends :-)
Faith
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
> My husband, Ben, says the two things that can ruin a friendship are
>
> 1) the person you choose to marry
>
> 2) the way you choose to rear your kids.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
You can *always* ask UNspecific questions! <g> Even *during* a topic. Just start a different thread with a new subject line! Or continue to comment in this one in a general way.
I think wants vs needs vs frivolity is a good subject here no matter what. It's just that I had a request for more info on this specific situation.
Ask away!
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
Sigh, never mind. Perhaps I will ask again later with this topic has run the
course. I was not talking about the person mentioned in the original post. I
would love to see a discussion on wants vs needs vs frivolity not associated
with this specific situation.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think wants vs needs vs frivolity is a good subject here no matter what. It's just that I had a request for more info on this specific situation.
Ask away!
~Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
Sigh, never mind. Perhaps I will ask again later with this topic has run the
course. I was not talking about the person mentioned in the original post. I
would love to see a discussion on wants vs needs vs frivolity not associated
with this specific situation.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa Smith
I have been reading this and AU for a few years now. I try my best to follow unschooling but with my 3 yo I am at a loss right now. I need some advice from some other people with late talkers. I am talking about age 3 and after.
William turned 3 in Oct. He is not a big talker. He has a handful of words he will say and use on a regular basis. He will also sometimes repeat things but they are not words he usually uses. Since he does not talk much communication is hard at times. There are some days where it seems all he does is YELL. I mean that SHRILL high pitched yell that makes your ears hurt. This happens when he wants my attention (will not say mombut will say daddy sometimes), something upsets him, he does not want XYZ (like today he wanted the TV off so he yelled), ect ect. I KNOW why he does this. I know he is frusturated. I know it is the best way HE knows to get my attention. I know all this. I know he is not doing it to annoy me or anything. We have always been of the mindset that he will talk when he is ready. He babbles ALL the time. Holds conversations with me, his toys, his brothers, himself but this is all in babbles that we can not understand. He is a very bright
kid. He was doing puzzles early, imaginative play WAY before most kids I know, ect. ect. Not that I am comparing him to other kids just saying that I know it is not an intelect thing.
Right now we are in the process of getting his hearing checked. He screams with loud noises like the smoke detector, his baby brother crying a certain way, people singing close by (like in a restaurant singing happy birthday), ect ect. I took him yesterday but he would not let the earbuds go in his ear so we will be working on that and trying again. He also will repeat some words and they wil sound NOTHING like the word he is trying to say. So we do not know if that is part of the speach issue.
What I need to know is what can I do to help this. Some days I am ok with the screaming. However some days (like today) there is A LOT of it and it just starts to grate on my nerves. I guess I just need some been there done that stories and am wondering when your kids really started talking more then one word here and there.
Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
William turned 3 in Oct. He is not a big talker. He has a handful of words he will say and use on a regular basis. He will also sometimes repeat things but they are not words he usually uses. Since he does not talk much communication is hard at times. There are some days where it seems all he does is YELL. I mean that SHRILL high pitched yell that makes your ears hurt. This happens when he wants my attention (will not say mombut will say daddy sometimes), something upsets him, he does not want XYZ (like today he wanted the TV off so he yelled), ect ect. I KNOW why he does this. I know he is frusturated. I know it is the best way HE knows to get my attention. I know all this. I know he is not doing it to annoy me or anything. We have always been of the mindset that he will talk when he is ready. He babbles ALL the time. Holds conversations with me, his toys, his brothers, himself but this is all in babbles that we can not understand. He is a very bright
kid. He was doing puzzles early, imaginative play WAY before most kids I know, ect. ect. Not that I am comparing him to other kids just saying that I know it is not an intelect thing.
Right now we are in the process of getting his hearing checked. He screams with loud noises like the smoke detector, his baby brother crying a certain way, people singing close by (like in a restaurant singing happy birthday), ect ect. I took him yesterday but he would not let the earbuds go in his ear so we will be working on that and trying again. He also will repeat some words and they wil sound NOTHING like the word he is trying to say. So we do not know if that is part of the speach issue.
What I need to know is what can I do to help this. Some days I am ok with the screaming. However some days (like today) there is A LOT of it and it just starts to grate on my nerves. I guess I just need some been there done that stories and am wondering when your kids really started talking more then one word here and there.
Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: Stacey Grimm <taboulichic@...>
buy above and beyond that if they want.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yeah---but what I listed above I DO consider "the basics." Clothes, food, lessons, equipment, trips, subscriptions---all those are basics here.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Y'know, sometimes my kids lament to our friends (who tend to be their
friends too) that we can't do for them because we're broke, but then
I'll go buy Fair Trade Organic coffee beans. What they're not telling
you - being that they are *in the moment* - is all of the things that
we *do* do for them. The piano lessons, the soccer gear, the brand new
shoes, the trip to Chinatown NYC for a birthday, etc etc. I wonder if
there's a side of the story that the adult friend isn't hearing?
-=-=-=-=-
Very often, there IS. And that's something to consider.
But what's being missed by the parents in this case is the FEELING of lack in the *child*. If the *child* feels deprived---no matter what the parent feels, that feeling needs to be taken into consideration by the *parent*. It's about the CHILD'S perception.
*Why* does the child feel deprived in *any* way? What is the child NOT getting that makes him feel that way?
It truly doesn't matter that the child has/gets EVERYTHING his little heart desire
s. What matters is how he feels---and why. If he *feels* deprived, why is that? What's missing? Why does the child feel the need to focus on something like coffee? Because the child sees it as a "luxury" item??? (This was the example given to me. Fair Trade Organic Coffee Beans seems to be a popular item for kids to complain about. Lucky me---I don't drink coffee. <G>)
If he's lamenting to a friend, then there's something that's missing in his relationship with his parents---maybe monetary. Maybe not. But there's something lacking there, one way or another.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Stacey Grimm <taboulichic@...>
> I pay for clothes, food, lessons and/or equipment, trips, and subcriptionsHere's where we differ somewhat. We pay for basics, and the kids can
> (netflix, WoW, gamefly).
buy above and beyond that if they want.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yeah---but what I listed above I DO consider "the basics." Clothes, food, lessons, equipment, trips, subscriptions---all those are basics here.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Y'know, sometimes my kids lament to our friends (who tend to be their
friends too) that we can't do for them because we're broke, but then
I'll go buy Fair Trade Organic coffee beans. What they're not telling
you - being that they are *in the moment* - is all of the things that
we *do* do for them. The piano lessons, the soccer gear, the brand new
shoes, the trip to Chinatown NYC for a birthday, etc etc. I wonder if
there's a side of the story that the adult friend isn't hearing?
-=-=-=-=-
Very often, there IS. And that's something to consider.
But what's being missed by the parents in this case is the FEELING of lack in the *child*. If the *child* feels deprived---no matter what the parent feels, that feeling needs to be taken into consideration by the *parent*. It's about the CHILD'S perception.
*Why* does the child feel deprived in *any* way? What is the child NOT getting that makes him feel that way?
It truly doesn't matter that the child has/gets EVERYTHING his little heart desire
s. What matters is how he feels---and why. If he *feels* deprived, why is that? What's missing? Why does the child feel the need to focus on something like coffee? Because the child sees it as a "luxury" item??? (This was the example given to me. Fair Trade Organic Coffee Beans seems to be a popular item for kids to complain about. Lucky me---I don't drink coffee. <G>)
If he's lamenting to a friend, then there's something that's missing in his relationship with his parents---maybe monetary. Maybe not. But there's something lacking there, one way or another.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trektheory
Well, the original premise has the parents buying EXPENSIVE coffee --
not a need, but a want, and a want that could be filled in a less
expensive manner. If they sat down and calculated what they were
spending on the coffee, and what they could save if they drank a less
expensive brand, they could tuck a little aside for those other things.
One thing, of course, could be to let the kids in on income/outgo, so
that they understand that the money really isn't there.
I think, however, that meeting SOME expenses of a child's interests
(especially as their education is on the line; who knows where those
interests will lead to?) is a valid thing for a child to expect.
Perhaps, though, the parents could help the child develop a way to
earn money for the things he or she wants. Then the child will feel
more in control of those aspects of life, and the parents won't have
to risk bankruptcy.
Linda
--- In [email protected], da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
wrote:
cut back on some of your expensive indulgences for the kids. What
about if the parents really do not have money to indulge themselves
either and the kids want everything they see? Then how to you make
them feel important while not spending your rent money on frivolous
things they are going to play with once and then be tired of ?
indulge their own "expensive" wants/needs. So *their* wants are paid
for. But when the child wants a computer or sports gear or lessons for
example, it's considered a hardship, and the answer is NO.
unimportant. What can you do to empower him---and what secrets do you
have for making your child feel that he IS important and that his
needs and wants are as valid as yours?
not a need, but a want, and a want that could be filled in a less
expensive manner. If they sat down and calculated what they were
spending on the coffee, and what they could save if they drank a less
expensive brand, they could tuck a little aside for those other things.
One thing, of course, could be to let the kids in on income/outgo, so
that they understand that the money really isn't there.
I think, however, that meeting SOME expenses of a child's interests
(especially as their education is on the line; who knows where those
interests will lead to?) is a valid thing for a child to expect.
Perhaps, though, the parents could help the child develop a way to
earn money for the things he or she wants. Then the child will feel
more in control of those aspects of life, and the parents won't have
to risk bankruptcy.
Linda
--- In [email protected], da Slinky <lady_slinky@...>
wrote:
>parents are indulging themselves and not the kids. The solution is to
> This seems like a no brainier to me but then it assumes that the
cut back on some of your expensive indulgences for the kids. What
about if the parents really do not have money to indulge themselves
either and the kids want everything they see? Then how to you make
them feel important while not spending your rent money on frivolous
things they are going to play with once and then be tired of ?
>they don't hesitate to buy expensive organic free trade coffee and
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 6:15:45 AM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] wants vs. needs vs. frivolity
>
>
>
> I received a request to post this from a reader:
>
> ************ ********* ******
>
> What do you do about a child who feels he isn't important or supported?
>
> Mom and dad complain regularly about how little money they have, but
indulge their own "expensive" wants/needs. So *their* wants are paid
for. But when the child wants a computer or sports gear or lessons for
example, it's considered a hardship, and the answer is NO.
>extras that they simply can't afford. He feels powerless and
> How do you delineate wants vs needs vs frivolity?
>
> The child feels that *his* wants and needs are seen as expensive
unimportant. What can you do to empower him---and what secrets do you
have for making your child feel that he IS important and that his
needs and wants are as valid as yours?
>
> ************ ********* ********
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~Kelly
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>