Cant I JUST teach him to READ????
logan_rose_porter
Hey all :)
Im struggling with the idea of not being 'allowed' to teach my son to read. For what its
worth we started with the idea he would go to an alternative should (I really liked
steiner/waldorf- but hated montessori) which quickly transitioned to homeshooling after
he was born and I couldnt imagine our days/lives being ruled by school, nor being apart
from him. We were already AP and as soon as I learned what US (and then RU) were I knew
it was for us. But during the part where I knew I would homeschool I got really excited
about being able to teach him to read. Im not interested in giving him lessons in any
subjects. I believe his interests will lead us into many fascinating subjects naturally. I also
want to make sure he has plenty of excursions and interesting toys etc...so the world is at
his door so to speak.
But I am really struggling with this reading thing. I would never force him to sit down and
learn it. I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters on the floors.
Painting words on the back fence. Making the whole thing a really fun hands on thing so
that the reading just naturally evolves from it- IYKWIM. I guess it stems from the belief
that if you can read you can learn anything. Im talking about self-led learning on his part,
even things like surfing the net for things of interest is made possible by him being able to
read.
So I guess what Im asking is, assuming its not something forced, why cant I just teach him
to read???? :P
Really looking forward to some opinions on all this and different perspectives!
Thanks guys :)
Im struggling with the idea of not being 'allowed' to teach my son to read. For what its
worth we started with the idea he would go to an alternative should (I really liked
steiner/waldorf- but hated montessori) which quickly transitioned to homeshooling after
he was born and I couldnt imagine our days/lives being ruled by school, nor being apart
from him. We were already AP and as soon as I learned what US (and then RU) were I knew
it was for us. But during the part where I knew I would homeschool I got really excited
about being able to teach him to read. Im not interested in giving him lessons in any
subjects. I believe his interests will lead us into many fascinating subjects naturally. I also
want to make sure he has plenty of excursions and interesting toys etc...so the world is at
his door so to speak.
But I am really struggling with this reading thing. I would never force him to sit down and
learn it. I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters on the floors.
Painting words on the back fence. Making the whole thing a really fun hands on thing so
that the reading just naturally evolves from it- IYKWIM. I guess it stems from the belief
that if you can read you can learn anything. Im talking about self-led learning on his part,
even things like surfing the net for things of interest is made possible by him being able to
read.
So I guess what Im asking is, assuming its not something forced, why cant I just teach him
to read???? :P
Really looking forward to some opinions on all this and different perspectives!
Thanks guys :)
Zoa Conner
I personally call having books around, playing sound games, writing letters
on their tummies, and a whole list of other activities *fun*. Sometimes
called strewing. The difference is whether the child likes these activities
and does them by choice. Unschooling and Radical unschooling are not about
ignoring your child and limiting your child¹s world. Quite the opposite. So
go ahead and do those activities if you and your child enjoy them. If your
child likes one and not the other, do the activity they like. But you could
benefit from using some new vocabulary words (no written test for them
though!). Try learning, opportunity, individuality, and choice. The learning
about letters, sounds, and reading is happening inside your child at their
own speed and in their own time. You are not teaching, you are facilitating.
If a child never saw books or written letters, how easy would it be to learn
to read written words? By surrounding them with the written word and reading
to them whenever they ask, you are facilitating them learning to read.
Maybe you need to call yourself a Learning Facilitator instead of a Teacher
;-)
Zoa
On 10/23/08 4:11 AM, "logan_rose_porter" <logan_rose_porter@...>
wrote:
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
*Handmade stuff @ earthyzee.etsy.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
on their tummies, and a whole list of other activities *fun*. Sometimes
called strewing. The difference is whether the child likes these activities
and does them by choice. Unschooling and Radical unschooling are not about
ignoring your child and limiting your child¹s world. Quite the opposite. So
go ahead and do those activities if you and your child enjoy them. If your
child likes one and not the other, do the activity they like. But you could
benefit from using some new vocabulary words (no written test for them
though!). Try learning, opportunity, individuality, and choice. The learning
about letters, sounds, and reading is happening inside your child at their
own speed and in their own time. You are not teaching, you are facilitating.
If a child never saw books or written letters, how easy would it be to learn
to read written words? By surrounding them with the written word and reading
to them whenever they ask, you are facilitating them learning to read.
Maybe you need to call yourself a Learning Facilitator instead of a Teacher
;-)
Zoa
On 10/23/08 4:11 AM, "logan_rose_porter" <logan_rose_porter@...>
wrote:
> But I am really struggling with this reading thing. I would never force him to----------------
> sit down and
> learn it. I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters on
> the floors.
> Painting words on the back fence. Making the whole thing a really fun hands on
> thing so
> that the reading just naturally evolves from it- IYKWIM. I guess it stems from
> the belief
> that if you can read you can learn anything. Im talking about self-led
> learning on his part,
> even things like surfing the net for things of interest is made possible by
> him being able to
> read.
>
> So I guess what Im asking is, assuming its not something forced, why cant I
> just teach him
> to read???? :P
>
> Really looking forward to some opinions on all this and different
> perspectives!
> Thanks guys :)
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
*Handmade stuff @ earthyzee.etsy.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 23, 2008, at 4:11 AM, logan_rose_porter wrote:
But it will help you not to damage him in the process if you disabuse
yourself of the notion that you can teach him to read.
What I mean by "teach him to read" is taking a 6 yo and run the child
through some program, or some series of activities (how ever fun) and
have the child read at the end. It doesn't work.
Activities can help a child perform actions that look like reading or
prereading, like sounding out letters or writing the alphabet or
writing particular words. But does being able to do those things make
a child read sooner? Well, it depends.
First a child needs to be developmentally ready. There are several
brain areas involved in being able to decode. Not all the areas
mature at the same time. Not all the areas mature at the same age for
all kids. Teachers can train kids to sound out the alphabet -- which
seems like almost reading -- and yet the child isn't developmentally
ready to put it all together. And by a teacher continuing to press
forward to get the kid over what seems like a hump, the child can
begin to feel like there's something wrong with him. Some kids aren't
developmentally ready to put it all together until they're 12. That's
6 or more years of going through the motions of reading. They could
have been doing so much more with that time.
Second, if a child can perform the actions, do they read sooner?
I bet you could train a child to move their legs as though they were
walking. Just because it looked like walking, would they be walking
sooner? Would it help? When they were 10 would anyone see a difference?
In *school* it makes a difference because kids need to be reading
independtly by 4th grade because that's what the curriculum needs.
(But schools don't get all kids to read then. The nonreaders are
shuttled off to special programs.)
Are they better at being 6?
If a child doesn't read until 12, are they 6 years behind? As a
matter of fact no, they're shortly reading at age level. Have they
missed out? No. Hopefully they've been read to and been listening to
things on tape if they want. And they've been learning in ways that
are much more meaningful *to them*.
Because schools have adopted books as a convenient way to get
information into kids, we've thoroughly devalued all other means of
learning. And that's a huge shame. Yes, books can do things that
other ways can't. But other ways can do things books can't.
This might help:
http://sandradodd.com/books
As might this:
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/products
This is one of the hard parts of parenting! We imagine what it will
be like when our child can do what we imagine will be fun to do
together. But we aren't handed blank slates. We're handed a fully
formed human being with likes and dislikes of his own. They just need
to grow into being able to reach out and explore.
It will help you loads to stop looking outward where you'd like to
lead him and look directly at him and help the child he already is.
That's not a way of saying don't paint giant letters. It's a way of
saying look first towards what you think *he* might enjoy, not at
what you think would be a fun activity, if you see the difference.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Making the whole thing a really fun hands on thing soThere's no reason you can't do fun things.
> that the reading just naturally evolves from it- IYKWIM.
But it will help you not to damage him in the process if you disabuse
yourself of the notion that you can teach him to read.
What I mean by "teach him to read" is taking a 6 yo and run the child
through some program, or some series of activities (how ever fun) and
have the child read at the end. It doesn't work.
Activities can help a child perform actions that look like reading or
prereading, like sounding out letters or writing the alphabet or
writing particular words. But does being able to do those things make
a child read sooner? Well, it depends.
First a child needs to be developmentally ready. There are several
brain areas involved in being able to decode. Not all the areas
mature at the same time. Not all the areas mature at the same age for
all kids. Teachers can train kids to sound out the alphabet -- which
seems like almost reading -- and yet the child isn't developmentally
ready to put it all together. And by a teacher continuing to press
forward to get the kid over what seems like a hump, the child can
begin to feel like there's something wrong with him. Some kids aren't
developmentally ready to put it all together until they're 12. That's
6 or more years of going through the motions of reading. They could
have been doing so much more with that time.
Second, if a child can perform the actions, do they read sooner?
I bet you could train a child to move their legs as though they were
walking. Just because it looked like walking, would they be walking
sooner? Would it help? When they were 10 would anyone see a difference?
In *school* it makes a difference because kids need to be reading
independtly by 4th grade because that's what the curriculum needs.
(But schools don't get all kids to read then. The nonreaders are
shuttled off to special programs.)
> I guess it stems from the beliefIf a child is reading at 6 instead of 7, what does the child gain?
> that if you can read you can learn anything.
Are they better at being 6?
If a child doesn't read until 12, are they 6 years behind? As a
matter of fact no, they're shortly reading at age level. Have they
missed out? No. Hopefully they've been read to and been listening to
things on tape if they want. And they've been learning in ways that
are much more meaningful *to them*.
Because schools have adopted books as a convenient way to get
information into kids, we've thoroughly devalued all other means of
learning. And that's a huge shame. Yes, books can do things that
other ways can't. But other ways can do things books can't.
This might help:
http://sandradodd.com/books
As might this:
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/products
> I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters onWhat if *he* doesn't think this is fun?
> the floors.
> Painting words on the back fence.
This is one of the hard parts of parenting! We imagine what it will
be like when our child can do what we imagine will be fun to do
together. But we aren't handed blank slates. We're handed a fully
formed human being with likes and dislikes of his own. They just need
to grow into being able to reach out and explore.
It will help you loads to stop looking outward where you'd like to
lead him and look directly at him and help the child he already is.
That's not a way of saying don't paint giant letters. It's a way of
saying look first towards what you think *he* might enjoy, not at
what you think would be a fun activity, if you see the difference.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Couple of things here. Excitement that means joy and sharing are great for
unschooling. Excitement that could at some point translate to
disappointment or impatience or lack of trust in a child's process and what
they want to learn is not good for unschooling.
Do you want some part of the credit for your child's process? Or is the
purpose to celebrate the fun of it?
I'm assuming you at least have a computer online at home. Likely you have
all kinds of things in print in your house and certainly the world outside
your doors has print in a variety of places unless you live out in the
wilds. If you would like to strew more, you could do that. Read aloud if
your child likes being read to (which Karl isn't totally crazy about but
enjoys a lot if it's something he wants to know about-- he's choosier about
what we read him these days and doesn't ask to be read to from story books
but online is a different thing). It's a wonderful way to let your child in
on reading.
Does he want to know what you're reading online or does he ask you to read
instructions for games? There's lots of ways to strew reading in your daily
lives together and share your child's joy. :)
Don't forget about the fun. I forget sometimes how much more fun my life is
now that our family has unschooling! Then I look back at the old long ago
and say Hey! I'm having so much fun today.
A wonderful page of transforming your child's joy into forgetting about that
"teachery" stuff:
http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax
~Katherine
unschooling. Excitement that could at some point translate to
disappointment or impatience or lack of trust in a child's process and what
they want to learn is not good for unschooling.
Do you want some part of the credit for your child's process? Or is the
purpose to celebrate the fun of it?
I'm assuming you at least have a computer online at home. Likely you have
all kinds of things in print in your house and certainly the world outside
your doors has print in a variety of places unless you live out in the
wilds. If you would like to strew more, you could do that. Read aloud if
your child likes being read to (which Karl isn't totally crazy about but
enjoys a lot if it's something he wants to know about-- he's choosier about
what we read him these days and doesn't ask to be read to from story books
but online is a different thing). It's a wonderful way to let your child in
on reading.
Does he want to know what you're reading online or does he ask you to read
instructions for games? There's lots of ways to strew reading in your daily
lives together and share your child's joy. :)
Don't forget about the fun. I forget sometimes how much more fun my life is
now that our family has unschooling! Then I look back at the old long ago
and say Hey! I'm having so much fun today.
A wonderful page of transforming your child's joy into forgetting about that
"teachery" stuff:
http://sandradodd.com/bookandsax
~Katherine
On 10/23/08, logan_rose_porter <logan_rose_porter@...> wrote:
> Hey all :)
>
> Im struggling with the idea of not being 'allowed' to teach my son to
read. For what its
> worth we started with the idea he would go to an alternative should (I
really liked
> steiner/waldorf- but hated montessori) which quickly transitioned to
homeshooling after
> he was born and I couldnt imagine our days/lives being ruled by school,
nor being apart
> from him. We were already AP and as soon as I learned what US (and then
RU) were I knew
> it was for us. But during the part where I knew I would homeschool I got
really excited
> about being able to teach him to read. Im not interested in giving him
lessons in any
> subjects. I believe his interests will lead us into many fascinating
subjects naturally. I also
> want to make sure he has plenty of excursions and interesting toys
etc...so the world is at
> his door so to speak.
>
> But I am really struggling with this reading thing. I would never force
him to sit down and
> learn it. I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters
on the floors.
> Painting words on the back fence. Making the whole thing a really fun
hands on thing so
> that the reading just naturally evolves from it- IYKWIM. I guess it stems
from the belief
> that if you can read you can learn anything. Im talking about self-led
learning on his part,
> even things like surfing the net for things of interest is made possible
by him being able to
> read.
>
> So I guess what Im asking is, assuming its not something forced, why cant
I just teach him
> to read???? :P
>
> Really looking forward to some opinions on all this and different
perspectives!
> Thanks guys :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
Don't forget that in this day and age, the printed word is NOT the only
way to "learn anything" - we've got videos and TV programs and YouTube
and books on CD and all sorts of alternate media that can provide the
same information, the same "learning", without reading a single word.
200 years ago, the printed word was pretty much it for transmitting
information that was beyond your local resources (you could learn to
shoe a horse from the local blacksmith by seeing and hearing and doing
but you couldn't necessarily learn about mangoes in South Dakota unless
you found some printed materials about them, or a person who knew a lot
about them which would be rare).
Kids learn to read, even schools don't "TEACH" kids to read - they teach
kids how to jump through certain hoops that may look like reading, and
for some kids they're ready and it clicks and they do read. But, just as
you don't teach kids to walk or talk (barring physiological issues),
they do it on their own timetable and in their own way with your
*facilitation* (you give them a safe space to practice, hold out a
finger to help with balance, slow your pace, etc), so too your job is
providing resources, opportunities, experiences with NO strings attached
(or expectations/emotional investment) that they must do this or that in
order to read at this timeframe. It's nearly impossible to go even one
day without seeing the symbolic representation of language in this
culture (try to think about a situation where you would not see even one
letter in a whole day - no On/Off, no Enter/Exit/Stop, no labels, no
brand names, no printed t-shirts or clothing tags, etc - it's pretty
tough). Kids are designed from the get go to want to do what they see
adults do. Your job, should you accept it Ms. Phelps (lol), is to have
things available to use, individually or together, just as you held out
a hand for a toddler, and the toddler might choose to grab it or might
choose to go it on their own. There's nothing wrong with having
resources, playing games (that are mutually enjoyable), and answering 72
gazillion questions about "what does that say? What letter is that?" The
difference is your mindset, thought patterns, goals - are you
introducing this because you think it looks like something fun that your
child will enjoy or are you introducing it because it'll be good to
'teach' reading? Try removing "teach" from your vocabulary and thinking
for a while - you can assist, facilitate, provide, answer, play, do,
learn, engage, uh you get the drift...but you cannot 'teach' until teach
is the last thing you think about (if you even think about it) when you
pick up something for your child or plan an activity.
Deb R.
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
way to "learn anything" - we've got videos and TV programs and YouTube
and books on CD and all sorts of alternate media that can provide the
same information, the same "learning", without reading a single word.
200 years ago, the printed word was pretty much it for transmitting
information that was beyond your local resources (you could learn to
shoe a horse from the local blacksmith by seeing and hearing and doing
but you couldn't necessarily learn about mangoes in South Dakota unless
you found some printed materials about them, or a person who knew a lot
about them which would be rare).
Kids learn to read, even schools don't "TEACH" kids to read - they teach
kids how to jump through certain hoops that may look like reading, and
for some kids they're ready and it clicks and they do read. But, just as
you don't teach kids to walk or talk (barring physiological issues),
they do it on their own timetable and in their own way with your
*facilitation* (you give them a safe space to practice, hold out a
finger to help with balance, slow your pace, etc), so too your job is
providing resources, opportunities, experiences with NO strings attached
(or expectations/emotional investment) that they must do this or that in
order to read at this timeframe. It's nearly impossible to go even one
day without seeing the symbolic representation of language in this
culture (try to think about a situation where you would not see even one
letter in a whole day - no On/Off, no Enter/Exit/Stop, no labels, no
brand names, no printed t-shirts or clothing tags, etc - it's pretty
tough). Kids are designed from the get go to want to do what they see
adults do. Your job, should you accept it Ms. Phelps (lol), is to have
things available to use, individually or together, just as you held out
a hand for a toddler, and the toddler might choose to grab it or might
choose to go it on their own. There's nothing wrong with having
resources, playing games (that are mutually enjoyable), and answering 72
gazillion questions about "what does that say? What letter is that?" The
difference is your mindset, thought patterns, goals - are you
introducing this because you think it looks like something fun that your
child will enjoy or are you introducing it because it'll be good to
'teach' reading? Try removing "teach" from your vocabulary and thinking
for a while - you can assist, facilitate, provide, answer, play, do,
learn, engage, uh you get the drift...but you cannot 'teach' until teach
is the last thing you think about (if you even think about it) when you
pick up something for your child or plan an activity.
Deb R.
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
> I guess it stems from the beliefI wrote this in another discussion about reading:
> that if you can read you can learn anything.
~ Allowing kids to read when they are ready keeps a whole world open
to them, for as long as they need it. Once a person reads, that tends
to be what they do when they see words of any kind at the exclusion of
other input. When words don't mean much, there are so many other
avenues to understand the world. Those paths are less available, if we
make kids concentrate on learning the "code." ~
There are many other ways to learn than just through reading. I've
noticed that young kids "see" more than I do (body language from both
humans and animals), they hear more, they feel more, they taste more,
they touch more. Everything is new to them in a way it is no longer
new to me. They have enough going on without trying to figure out a
bunch of symbols (which are mostly used to express all they are
experiencing) before they are ready <g>.
> Im talking about self-led learning on his part,But he'll only need that when he's ready to do that. He has a big,
> even things like surfing the net for things of interest is made
> possible by him being able to
> read.
amazing world available to him already, without reading. Sure, make
print and books and all manner of reading materials available. Do fun
things (that he thinks are fun) that may lead to reading. But do it
without an agenda of "teaching" him to read. Your goals are not
necessarily his.
>Learning is done by the learner. It's an internal process, no matter
>
> So I guess what Im asking is, assuming its not something forced, why
> cant I just teach him
> to read???? :P
>
how much teachers would like to take credit for it. You can help the
process or hinder it. Some of the hindering comes from our *own*
thought processes.
http://sandradodd.com/teaching/
In any case, relax and let reading unfold for him (with your help, but
without a specific end in mind). How old is your son, BTW?
Robin B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Allowing kids to read when they are ready keeps a whole world open
to them, for as long as they need it. Once a person reads, that tends
to be what they do when they see words of any kind at the exclusion of
other input. When words don't mean much, there are so many other
avenues to understand the world. Those paths are less available, if we
make kids concentrate on learning the "code." ~
There are many other ways to learn than just through reading. I've
noticed that young kids "see" more than I do (body language from both
humans and animals), they hear more, they feel more, they taste more,
they touch more. Everything is new to them in a way it is no longer
new to me. They have enough going on without trying to figure out a
bunch of symbols (which are mostly used to express all they are
experiencing) before they are ready <g>.
-=------\=\\\\\\\=-=---=0-0-0-0-0-0\=\=\
As someone who grew up watching movies with subtitles I stil find it hard not to read them.
Even if I see a movie from my native language and it has subtitles ( in english or portuguese) I can't ehlp but read.
I make a big effort not to since I miss soooooo much by doing so.
All the details of productions and photography which I love are gut in half .
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to them, for as long as they need it. Once a person reads, that tends
to be what they do when they see words of any kind at the exclusion of
other input. When words don't mean much, there are so many other
avenues to understand the world. Those paths are less available, if we
make kids concentrate on learning the "code." ~
There are many other ways to learn than just through reading. I've
noticed that young kids "see" more than I do (body language from both
humans and animals), they hear more, they feel more, they taste more,
they touch more. Everything is new to them in a way it is no longer
new to me. They have enough going on without trying to figure out a
bunch of symbols (which are mostly used to express all they are
experiencing) before they are ready <g>.
-=------\=\\\\\\\=-=---=0-0-0-0-0-0\=\=\
As someone who grew up watching movies with subtitles I stil find it hard not to read them.
Even if I see a movie from my native language and it has subtitles ( in english or portuguese) I can't ehlp but read.
I make a big effort not to since I miss soooooo much by doing so.
All the details of productions and photography which I love are gut in half .
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
You can't teach him to read. You can do all the stuff. You can paint words on the fence, you can play with letters on the floor, you can even go so far as to give him worksheets and reading lessons and hire a tutor and do all of the other more typical methods that are seen as a route to reading, but you won't be able to teach him to read. If he is ready to read, he will read. If he isn't he may just figure that reading is really hard and that he's kind of stupid not to master it. Reading will come from wanting to negotiate through the world he lives in.
to him. I've read it, but I skim read. He listens with intensity. He observes with intensity, as well.
I used to think that reading was a necessary early step in education. The funny thing is that I thought that while living for a year in Japan where I could read nothing that wasn't written in the Latin alphabet and yet David and I could negotiate our way around Kyoto and Osaka and other parts of Japan often with less difficulty than I find getting around places where English is the written language. It was fun ordering in restaurants. In Japan it is normal to have plastic versions of what's on the menu in the window. I can remember once David had to work a bit to get the waitress to go out with him to the front of the restaurant to point at what we wanted to eat. Or when I had to ask for tampons at a pharmacy. The poor girl was so embarrassed when she finally got what I wanted. I laughed and she laughed.
Simon isn't ready to read yet. The neurological blocks that he needs to do so aren't in place yet. He isn't stupid or slow, nor is he left out of the world of knowledge because of that lack. He is so knowledgeable and so capable. The most amazing thing to me is that he doesn't feel stupid or slow to not be reading. Linnaea, who is 8, started reading at 6 and Simon was quite comfortable turning to her and asking her to read things to him, he still is. He never felt challenged by her ability. He doesn't compare himself with her.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: logan_rose_porter <logan_rose_porter@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, 23 October, 2008 9:11:10 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Cant I JUST teach him to READ????
Hey all :)
Im struggling with the idea of not being 'allowed' to teach my son to read. For what its
worth we started with the idea he would go to an alternative should (I really liked
steiner/waldorf- but hated montessori) which quickly transitioned to homeshooling after
he was born and I couldnt imagine our days/lives being ruled by school, nor being apart
from him. We were already AP and as soon as I learned what US (and then RU) were I knew
it was for us. But during the part where I knew I would homeschool I got really excited
about being able to teach him to read. Im not interested in giving him lessons in any
subjects. I believe his interests will lead us into many fascinating subjects naturally. I also
want to make sure he has plenty of excursions and interesting toys etc...so the world is at
his door so to speak.
But I am really struggling with this reading thing. I would never force him to sit down and
learn it. I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters on the floors.
Painting words on the back fence. Making the whole thing a really fun hands on thing so
that the reading just naturally evolves from it- IYKWIM. I guess it stems from the belief
that if you can read you can learn anything. Im talking about self-led learning on his part,
even things like surfing the net for things of interest is made possible by him being able to
read.
So I guess what Im asking is, assuming its not something forced, why cant I just teach him
to read???? :P
Really looking forward to some opinions on all this and different perspectives!
Thanks guys :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I guess it stems from the beliefSimon, who's 11, isn't reading yet. Still he leads his own learning all the time. He surfs youtube a lot. Two days ago he found the Animaniacs Macarana song (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bjOePNFRFRU) because Linnaea had been singing it in the car when we came back from roller skating, and finding it was a gift that he gave to her. I don't know how he negotiated his way through to the song. I've watched him do it with other things. He couldn't remember the name of a series that he had been watching, but he knew where it was in a list of things and he found it that way. He sees things that I miss, he hears things that I miss. I use written words to help me negotiate through so many things, but he uses all these other cues. I think he often has a more accurate picture of what's going on, or at least one that is informed by more sources, than I do. He knows more of Harry Potter than I do as he has listened and relistened to Jim Dale and Stephen Fry read it
> that if you can read you can learn anything. Im talking about self-led learning on his part,
> even things like surfing the net for things of interest is made possible by him being able to
> read.
to him. I've read it, but I skim read. He listens with intensity. He observes with intensity, as well.
I used to think that reading was a necessary early step in education. The funny thing is that I thought that while living for a year in Japan where I could read nothing that wasn't written in the Latin alphabet and yet David and I could negotiate our way around Kyoto and Osaka and other parts of Japan often with less difficulty than I find getting around places where English is the written language. It was fun ordering in restaurants. In Japan it is normal to have plastic versions of what's on the menu in the window. I can remember once David had to work a bit to get the waitress to go out with him to the front of the restaurant to point at what we wanted to eat. Or when I had to ask for tampons at a pharmacy. The poor girl was so embarrassed when she finally got what I wanted. I laughed and she laughed.
Simon isn't ready to read yet. The neurological blocks that he needs to do so aren't in place yet. He isn't stupid or slow, nor is he left out of the world of knowledge because of that lack. He is so knowledgeable and so capable. The most amazing thing to me is that he doesn't feel stupid or slow to not be reading. Linnaea, who is 8, started reading at 6 and Simon was quite comfortable turning to her and asking her to read things to him, he still is. He never felt challenged by her ability. He doesn't compare himself with her.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: logan_rose_porter <logan_rose_porter@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, 23 October, 2008 9:11:10 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Cant I JUST teach him to READ????
Hey all :)
Im struggling with the idea of not being 'allowed' to teach my son to read. For what its
worth we started with the idea he would go to an alternative should (I really liked
steiner/waldorf- but hated montessori) which quickly transitioned to homeshooling after
he was born and I couldnt imagine our days/lives being ruled by school, nor being apart
from him. We were already AP and as soon as I learned what US (and then RU) were I knew
it was for us. But during the part where I knew I would homeschool I got really excited
about being able to teach him to read. Im not interested in giving him lessons in any
subjects. I believe his interests will lead us into many fascinating subjects naturally. I also
want to make sure he has plenty of excursions and interesting toys etc...so the world is at
his door so to speak.
But I am really struggling with this reading thing. I would never force him to sit down and
learn it. I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters on the floors.
Painting words on the back fence. Making the whole thing a really fun hands on thing so
that the reading just naturally evolves from it- IYKWIM. I guess it stems from the belief
that if you can read you can learn anything. Im talking about self-led learning on his part,
even things like surfing the net for things of interest is made possible by him being able to
read.
So I guess what Im asking is, assuming its not something forced, why cant I just teach him
to read???? :P
Really looking forward to some opinions on all this and different perspectives!
Thanks guys :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
possible by him being able to read.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My mother told me that too: "If you can read, you can learn ANYTHING."
I believed her, but then I was an avid, young reader.
In sixth grade, I distinctly remember telling my teacher, Mrs Nuchols, that. She looked over at me and said, "I can read very, very well, and I can't sew."
OOOOOKay. <G>
Reading has nothing to do with whether someone can learn or not. Seriously. Get over that! <g>
"Self-led" learning happens when someone has an interest. In anything.
Granted, the reading thang may have been true 50 years ago, but we have soooo many more learning opportunities now---with tv and videos and the internet---and even with *people* who are more well-traveled and more knowledgeable and more accessible than 50 years ago.
For example: back when I was a child, I was dependent, in a large way, on books for information on showing dogs. Black and white photos and limited explanations by ancient handlers. Thanks goodness I also had handling classes in town and handlers I could ask and observe at shows.
*Now*, I could rent a dozen DVDs and watch shows on TV and get tips in real time online with skype---it's just amazing!
Our lives aren't rules by the written word any longer.
Plus, as Schuyler wrote, as soon as we *can* read, our worlds change. I want my children to have as long as possible for observing the world through non-reading eyes. It's such a rich world. And since I know they WILL read when they're ready (that's a gimme), I don't worry that they *won't*. Their worlds will be *more* informative with *more* pre-reading skills than with early reading ability.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I guess it stems from the belief that if you can read you can learn anything. Im talking aboutself-led learning on his part, even things like surfing the net for things of interest is made
possible by him being able to read.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My mother told me that too: "If you can read, you can learn ANYTHING."
I believed her, but then I was an avid, young reader.
In sixth grade, I distinctly remember telling my teacher, Mrs Nuchols, that. She looked over at me and said, "I can read very, very well, and I can't sew."
OOOOOKay. <G>
Reading has nothing to do with whether someone can learn or not. Seriously. Get over that! <g>
"Self-led" learning happens when someone has an interest. In anything.
Granted, the reading thang may have been true 50 years ago, but we have soooo many more learning opportunities now---with tv and videos and the internet---and even with *people* who are more well-traveled and more knowledgeable and more accessible than 50 years ago.
For example: back when I was a child, I was dependent, in a large way, on books for information on showing dogs. Black and white photos and limited explanations by ancient handlers. Thanks goodness I also had handling classes in town and handlers I could ask and observe at shows.
*Now*, I could rent a dozen DVDs and watch shows on TV and get tips in real time online with skype---it's just amazing!
Our lives aren't rules by the written word any longer.
Plus, as Schuyler wrote, as soon as we *can* read, our worlds change. I want my children to have as long as possible for observing the world through non-reading eyes. It's such a rich world. And since I know they WILL read when they're ready (that's a gimme), I don't worry that they *won't*. Their worlds will be *more* informative with *more* pre-reading skills than with early reading ability.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
logan_rose_porter
>>> Sometimes called strewing.<<<Sorry what is strewing? Im not quite clear. Is it a bad thing?
>>>>The difference is whether the child likes these activitiesI definitely meant we would do these kinds of things as in "hey do you wanna get the paint out, we could write things on the fence" As in, it was just another game
> and does them by choice. <<<
during the day of all the many things he/I/we come up with. I totally meant it was dependent on his interest in doing something.
>>>You are not teaching, you are facilitating.<<<Thanks for the language advice, I didnt even realize how it sounded. When I said 'teach him to read' I guess I meant offer him the abilities to pick up knowledge
(knowledge of letters for example) and the techniques (like explaining how written words sound) so that he could aquire the ability to read himself. If that all made sense!
>>>>What I mean by "teach him to read" is taking a 6 yo and run the childthrough some program, or some series of activities (how ever fun) and
have the child read at the end. <<<<
Im finding it interesting to reevaluate the fantasy of 'teaching him to read' I had in my head to ascertain what I actually envisioned. Because I never had the idea of sitting
him down for any kind of lessons. Or any of those things where the child has to trace letters, or sound out letters. You get the idea. I think what I was wanting to do was
a lot more unschooly than even i thought it was. I definitely dont have some preconception or goal on when he will be reading by. You have all given me a lot to think
about. Mostly because Im not really sure myself what my 'goal' was. Im not really sure what I thought the reading would look like. Since I know I wouldnt have forced
anything he didnt want to do and I dont seem to have some set idea about his age once he could read. So it seems to be more activities for the sake of the enjoyment they
give us.
>>>If a child is reading at 6 instead of 7, what does the child gain?Are they better at being 6?<<<<
No, I guess it doesnt matter in our (RUers) lives, life is just life, reading is really inconsequential day to day. Thanks :)
>>> Hopefully they've been read to and been listening tothings on tape if they want.<<<
I hadnt even considered this, frankly had forgotten they existed! And also didnt think of the the thing mentioned about documentaries and you tube etc to teach
you/entertain you verbally. Besides I am starting to see with things like the internet, if I am right *there* with him, I can help him to find whatever he's looking for that
may require reading. Im also *there* to help by reading something out to him in general life as well. We do read lots of books (always his initiative- he loves to bring
books and snuggle up to read).
>>> I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters onWhat if *he* doesn't think this is fun?<<<<
> the floors.
> Painting words on the back fence.
Then we wouldnt do it. I tend to offer options only if he seems to need something to do, most of the time he knows what he wants to do at any given moment and is
wanting to play whatever that is. I was thinking more that it would be yet another available activity which he can pull out and we can play.
>>>>That's not a way of saying don't paint giant letters. It's a way ofsaying look first towards what you think *he* might enjoy, not at
what you think would be a fun activity, if you see the difference.<<<
Im having trouble understanding the differentiation there...If he isnt telling me what he wants to do (usually he is) and I offer him an idea for play, isnt that both me
thinking of something I think will appeal to him, but also that I think would be fun? Or maybe I just find all kids activities a little too fun ;) I am a bit of a big kid at heart.
>>>Excitement that could at some point translate todisappointment or impatience or lack of trust in a child's process and what
they want to learn is not good for unschooling.<<<
I cant imagine being either disappointed or impatient because I dont have some set goal. I guess I am realizing that all I really want is for him to be able to read one day,
or should I say when he needs it! Im starting to see that I never felt it has to be at some specific time, and therefore is likely to be a gradual process spanning years
anyway. I think my vision was fairly unschooly to begin with, I just didnt realize it was :) Its so good figuring this all out!
>>>Do you want some part of the credit for your child's process? Or is thepurpose to celebrate the fun of it?<<<<
No dont want any credit. I only want him to read to make his life easier. It has nothing to do with outsiders thinking he *should* be able to. I dont want him to be able to
read for any sense of parental pride. The process itself I wanted to do because I think it would be fun to explore letters, and words etc in an exciting and playful way. The
actual outcome had nothing to with the 'teaching' I was wanting to do. It was more in the name of fun and exploration.
>>> - are youintroducing this because you think it looks like something fun that your
child will enjoy or are you introducing it because it'll be good to
'teach' reading?<<<<
Good question! Im not even sure. I guess both ;) Because it looks like something fun that my child will enjoy and will also help him 'learn' letters/words/whatever on some
level too. I would like to know more about why this is bad, to give them something which is educational, with the intention that they will pick up something/anything from
it? Even if there is no expectation that they will, but the hope I guess is still there. And how did you all get away from these kind of ulterior motives?
>>>The funny thing is that I thought that while living for a year in Japan where I could read nothing that wasn't written in the Latin alphabet and yet David and I couldnegotiate our way around Kyoto and Osaka and other parts of Japan often with less difficulty than I find getting around places where English is the written
language.<<<<
Interesting, so I guess if I looked at reading itself the same way I look at, say, talking then I could let it go more easily. In that Im not going to play talking and sounding
games (etc) to 'teach' him to talk faster and beyond his ability and desire. So reading is the same, its just another form of communication which will be mastered when he
is leading the way to it.
>>> He doesn't compare himself with her. <<<Fantastic! :)
>>>In sixth grade, I distinctly remember telling my teacher, Mrs Nuchols, that. She looked over at me and said, "I can read very, very well, and I can't sew."<<<<Great point, however she probably wouldnt even need to read to sew, as this is something easier to learn by *doing*. Another great way to learn. Maybe I have been
putting all the 'learning' stuff into one box, in other words, the only way he can learn things (when he wants to learn them) is to be able to read everything. I have
overlooked so many other ways to get knowledge and skills.
>>>Our lives aren't rules by the written word any longer.<<<So true, if anything it is becoming more obsolete! After all, why read a story when you can watch the movie faster and more vividly ;)
Thanks everyone for offering other perspectives and challenging me to question my own intentions. Im already feeling better! :P
Tracee
>Nuchols, that. She looked over at me and said, "I can read very, very
>
>
> My mother told me that too: "If you can read, you can learn ANYTHING."
>
>
>
> I believed her, but then I was an avid, young reader.Â
>
>
>
>
> In sixth grade, I distinctly remember telling my teacher, Mrs
well, and I can't sew."
>i can relate to this point very well. i recently volunteered so sew
>
>
>
> OOOOOKay. <G>
>
>
>
>
some things for the play i'm doing. i'm very enthusiastic about
volunteering for things, even though i wasn't sure i would know how to
work my director's sewing machine.(mine is currently recovering from
being oiled with EVOO.LOL) sure enough, when it came time to change
the bobbin, i needed help. i always knew i was a visual learner, but
never how much of one i was, til i found this on youtube. check it
out! <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie"
value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BCBYPtFDOxA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param
name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed
src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BCBYPtFDOxA&hl=en&fs=1"
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true"
width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
i totally understood it and was able to finish my project!
tmissinne
One of the things that I've found so liberating about unschooling is that if my children have
the freedom to pursue the things they really love, then that means so do I! I often see toys or
think certain activities would be fun, but then I realize that they would be fun FOR ME. I
would feel disappointed that I didn't get to do it. When I was a kid, I didn't get to choose my
own activities, which I think made it more disappointing.
Then I realized that if something sounds fun to me, then I can just do it. They can join in if
they want, or not. I just bought a kids loom, which they've helped with a little bit, but I
certainly enjoy. And I'm saving my money for a beautiful stuffed fairy doll at the toy store,
which they may or may not want to play with, but I will certainly enjoy looking at.
So I say, if you want to paint words on the fence, go right ahead and do it;)
It's not too late to enjoy your childhood.
Trisha
the freedom to pursue the things they really love, then that means so do I! I often see toys or
think certain activities would be fun, but then I realize that they would be fun FOR ME. I
would feel disappointed that I didn't get to do it. When I was a kid, I didn't get to choose my
own activities, which I think made it more disappointing.
Then I realized that if something sounds fun to me, then I can just do it. They can join in if
they want, or not. I just bought a kids loom, which they've helped with a little bit, but I
certainly enjoy. And I'm saving my money for a beautiful stuffed fairy doll at the toy store,
which they may or may not want to play with, but I will certainly enjoy looking at.
So I say, if you want to paint words on the fence, go right ahead and do it;)
It's not too late to enjoy your childhood.
Trisha
Meredith
Here's a book that you might find useful in terms of thinking about
all the many skills that go into reading:
Literacy Through Play by Gretchen Owocki
You may well find, looking through it, that many of the things you
and your son are doing are part of him learning to read already.
those happy scenes in my mind. I've run into those lovely thought-
pictures in my own head, too. I wanted the cuddly reading before bed
nights, the sweet playing in the bath evenings, the tender holding
of the unhappy child until she was soothed by my big loving momness.
I don't get any of that with Mo - she wants to play legos until she
falls asleep in the middle of them. She cat-baths and good grief
don't try to hold her when she's unhappy! So I've had to find other
ways to fill my need to feel good about myself as a mom - ways that
don't look anything like those happy thought-pictures I had painted.
think your *idea* of what "learning to read" looks like - those
pretty ideas you have in your mind - could be standing in the way of
seeing the real reading that's naturally evolving already. You can
facilitate what's already evolving for sure! The trick is, if you're
thinking "learn reading" you could easily miss a hundred things you
*could* be supporting, real things he's learning right now, many of
which are inevitably part of the process by which he's learning to
read also. Does that make sense? Check out that book!
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
all the many skills that go into reading:
Literacy Through Play by Gretchen Owocki
You may well find, looking through it, that many of the things you
and your son are doing are part of him learning to read already.
> I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters onthe floors.
> Painting words on the back fence.You paint a lovely picture with your words, there! I can almost see
those happy scenes in my mind. I've run into those lovely thought-
pictures in my own head, too. I wanted the cuddly reading before bed
nights, the sweet playing in the bath evenings, the tender holding
of the unhappy child until she was soothed by my big loving momness.
I don't get any of that with Mo - she wants to play legos until she
falls asleep in the middle of them. She cat-baths and good grief
don't try to hold her when she's unhappy! So I've had to find other
ways to fill my need to feel good about myself as a mom - ways that
don't look anything like those happy thought-pictures I had painted.
> Making the whole thing a really fun hands on thing soIf its evolving, you don't have to "make" it anything. Right now, I
> that the reading just naturally evolves from it- IYKWIM.
think your *idea* of what "learning to read" looks like - those
pretty ideas you have in your mind - could be standing in the way of
seeing the real reading that's naturally evolving already. You can
facilitate what's already evolving for sure! The trick is, if you're
thinking "learn reading" you could easily miss a hundred things you
*could* be supporting, real things he's learning right now, many of
which are inevitably part of the process by which he's learning to
read also. Does that make sense? Check out that book!
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
logan_rose_porter
>>> Sometimes called strewing.<<<Sorry what is strewing? Im not quite clear- is it a bad thing?
>>>>The difference is whether the child likes these activitiesI definitely meant we would do these kinds of things as in "hey do you wanna get the paint out, we could write things on the fence"
> and does them by choice. <<<
As in it was just another game during the day of all the many things he/I/we come up with. I totally meant it was dependent on his
interest in doing something.
>>>You are not teaching, you are facilitating.<<<Thanks for the language advie, I didnt even realize how it sounded. When I said 'teach him to read' I guess I meant offer him the
abilities to pick up knowledge (knowledge of letters for example) and the techniques (like explaining how written words sound) so
that he could aquire the ability to read himself. If that all made sense!
>>>>What I mean by "teach him to read" is taking a 6 yo and run the childthrough some program, or some series of activities (how ever fun) and
have the child read at the end. <<<<
Im finding it interesting to reevaluate the fantasy of 'teaching him to read' I had in my head to ascertain what I actually envisioned.
Because I never had the idea of sitting him down for any kind of lessons. Or any of those things where the child has to trace letters, or
sound out letters. You get the idea. I think what I was wanting to do was a lot more unschooly than even i thought it was. I definitely
dont have some preconception or goal on when he will be reading by. You have all given me a lot to think about. Mostly because Im
not really sure myself what my 'goal' was. Im not really sure what I thought the reading would look like. Since I know I wouldnt have
forced anything he didnt want to do and I dont seem to have some set idea about his age once he could read.
>>>If a child is reading at 6 instead of 7, what does the child gain?Are they better at being 6?<<<<
No, I guess it doesnt matter in our lives, life is just life, reading is really inconsequential day to day. Thanks :)
>>> Hopefully they've been read to and been listening tothings on tape if they want.<<<
I hadnt even considered this, frankly had forgotten they existed! And also didnt think of the the thing mentioned about
documentaries and you tube etc to teach you/entertain you verbally. Besides I am starting to see with things like the internet, if I am
right *there* with him, I can help him to find whatever he's looking for that may require reading. Im also *there* to help by reading
something out to him in general life as well. We do read lots of books (always his initiative- he loves to bring books and snuggle up to
read).
>>> I was more excited to do things like playing with giant letters onWhat if *he* doesn't think this is fun?<<<<
> the floors.
> Painting words on the back fence.
Then we wouldnt do it. I tend to offer options only if he seems to need something to do, most of the time he knows what *he* wants
to do at any given moment and is asking to play whatever that is. I was thinking more that it would be yet another available activity
which he can pull out and we can play.
>>>>That's not a way of saying don't paint giant letters. It's a way ofsaying look first towards what you think *he* might enjoy, not at
what you think would be a fun activity, if you see the difference.<<<
Im having trouble understanding the differentiation there...If he isnt telling me what he wants to do (usually he is) and I offer him an
idea for play, isnt that both me thinking of something I think will appeal to him, but also that I find fun? Or maybe I just find all kids
activities a little too fun ;) I am a bit of a big kid at heart.
>>>Excitement that could at some point translate todisappointment or impatience or lack of trust in a child's process and what
they want to learn is not good for unschooling.<<<
I cant imagine being either disappointed or impatient because I dont have some set goal. I guess I am realizing that all I really want is
for him to be able to read one day, or should I say when he needs it! Im starting to see that I never felt it has to be at some specific
time, and therefore is likely to be a gradual process spanning years anyway. I think my vision was actually unschooly to begin with, I
just didnt think it was :) It so good figuring this all out!
>>>Do you want some part of the credit for your child's process? Or is thepurpose to celebrate the fun of it?<<<<
No dont want any credit. I only want him to read to make his life easier. It has nothing to do with outsiders thinking he *should* be
able to. I dont want him to be able to read for any sense of parental pride. The process itself I wanted to do because I think it would
be fun to explore letters, and words etc in an exciting and playful way. The actual outcome had nothing to with the 'teaching' I was
wanting to do. It was more in the name of fun and exploration.
>>> - are youintroducing this because you think it looks like something fun that your
child will enjoy or are you introducing it because it'll be good to
'teach' reading?<<<<
Good question! Im not even sure. I guess both ;) Because it looks like something fun that my child will enjoy and will also help him
'learn' letters/words/whatever. I would like to know more about why this is bad, to give them something which is educational, with the
intention that they will pick up something/anything from it? Even if there is no expectation that they will, but the hope I guess is still
there. And how did you all get away from these kind of ulterior motives?
>>>The funny thing is that I thought that while living for a year in Japan where I could read nothing that wasn't written in the Latinalphabet and yet David and I could negotiate our way around Kyoto and Osaka and other parts of Japan often with less difficulty than I
find getting around places where English is the written language.<<<<
Interesting, so I guess if I looked at reading itself the same way I look at, say, talking then I could let it go more easily. In that Im not
going to play talking and sounding games (etc) to 'teach' him to talk faster and beyond his ability and desire. So reading is the same,
its just another form of communication which wil be mastered when he is leading the way to it.
>>> He doesn't compare himself with her. <<<Fantastic! :)
>>>In sixth grade, I distinctly remember telling my teacher, Mrs Nuchols, that. She looked over at me and said, "I can read very, verywell, and I can't sew."<<<<
Great point, however she probably wouldnt even need to read to sew, as this is something easier to learn by *doing*. Another great
way to learn. Maybe I have been putting all the 'learning' stuff into one box, in other words, the only way he can learn academic type
things (which he wants to learn) is to be able to read everything. I have overlooked so many other ways to get knowledge and skills.
>>>Our lives aren't rules by the written word any longer.<<<So true, if anything it is becoming more obsolete! After all, why read a story when you can watch the movie faster and more vividly ;)
Thanks everyone for changing my perspective and challenging me to question my own intentions. Im already wondering why I was
feeling that way! :P
Logan
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "logan_rose_porter"
<logan_rose_porter@...> wrote:
words (or alchemical symbols or signs of the zodiac for that matter)
if you wanted. Maybe he'd say "I want to do that too" maybe he'd
paint pokemon.
**************
that's a suggestion of something fun to do. The moment you add "we
could paint letters" you've morphed the idea into an "activity" in
the sense I think the other poster meant. You've added some kind of
preconceived notion to the purpose of painting the fence, beyond the
fence needing a coat of paint, I mean!
You can do this for yourself, you know. If he's interested, he might
ask to join in. Here's an example:
My partner, George, is a punster. He's really very talented in that
department (mock shudder)! He plays with words and sounds and
letters and phrases on a regular basis. Ray's interested, but mostly
he's interested in the social aspect - he wants to get laughs and
groans like his dad! But he's not terribly interested in the process
of exploring language, so over time he's found other ways to be an
entertainer. Mo, otoh, shares George's love of language. She's not
as skilled, yet, but she's working on it - she sort of "raps" in a
way, playing out loud with sound and word combinations and giggling
over rhymes and alliteration and crowing when she actually comes up
with a pun. Sometimes she and George swap words back and forth in a
sort of free-association language game.
Anyway, the point of all that is that this is something that George
loves to do. Its one of his hobbies, if you like. Its not something
he's tried to actively involve the kids in - they see/hear him doing
it and want to play, too.
If words and letters interest you, play with them. Embroider a
sampler or learn caligraphy. Play with stencils. Write poetry if you
like! Or a journal or blog. Get a dozen sets of magnetic fridge
letters or words and play with them bc You enjoy it. If your guy
wants to play, too, great. But, just suppose he uses the letters to
make pictures instead of using them "as letters" - what then? Well,
you could get a set of shape magnets too, so he has more/different
options to choose from. Play with letters by all means! But don't
let the idea of playing with letters *limit* your thinking - that's
the pitfall to watch out for.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<logan_rose_porter@...> wrote:
>> I definitely meant we would do these kinds of things as in "heydo you wanna get the paint out, we could write things on the fence"
> As in it was just another game during the day of all the manythings he/I/we come up with. I totally meant it was dependent on his
> interest in doing something.Why not just offer to paint the fence? You could paint letters or
words (or alchemical symbols or signs of the zodiac for that matter)
if you wanted. Maybe he'd say "I want to do that too" maybe he'd
paint pokemon.
> >>>>That's not a way of saying don't paint giant letters. It's away of
> saying look first towards what you think *he* might enjoy, not atdifference.<<<
> what you think would be a fun activity, if you see the
**************
> Im having trouble understanding the differentiation there...Going back to the fence idea - if you say "lets paint the fence"
that's a suggestion of something fun to do. The moment you add "we
could paint letters" you've morphed the idea into an "activity" in
the sense I think the other poster meant. You've added some kind of
preconceived notion to the purpose of painting the fence, beyond the
fence needing a coat of paint, I mean!
>The process itself I wanted to do because I think it wouldplayful way.
> be fun to explore letters, and words etc in an exciting and
You can do this for yourself, you know. If he's interested, he might
ask to join in. Here's an example:
My partner, George, is a punster. He's really very talented in that
department (mock shudder)! He plays with words and sounds and
letters and phrases on a regular basis. Ray's interested, but mostly
he's interested in the social aspect - he wants to get laughs and
groans like his dad! But he's not terribly interested in the process
of exploring language, so over time he's found other ways to be an
entertainer. Mo, otoh, shares George's love of language. She's not
as skilled, yet, but she's working on it - she sort of "raps" in a
way, playing out loud with sound and word combinations and giggling
over rhymes and alliteration and crowing when she actually comes up
with a pun. Sometimes she and George swap words back and forth in a
sort of free-association language game.
Anyway, the point of all that is that this is something that George
loves to do. Its one of his hobbies, if you like. Its not something
he's tried to actively involve the kids in - they see/hear him doing
it and want to play, too.
If words and letters interest you, play with them. Embroider a
sampler or learn caligraphy. Play with stencils. Write poetry if you
like! Or a journal or blog. Get a dozen sets of magnetic fridge
letters or words and play with them bc You enjoy it. If your guy
wants to play, too, great. But, just suppose he uses the letters to
make pictures instead of using them "as letters" - what then? Well,
you could get a set of shape magnets too, so he has more/different
options to choose from. Play with letters by all means! But don't
let the idea of playing with letters *limit* your thinking - that's
the pitfall to watch out for.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 25, 2008, at 10:30 PM, logan_rose_porter wrote:
lessons. But I did get the impression you had the desire to be the
font from which he drinks his knowledge from, with the desire to see
understanding unfolding because of what you've done for him.
It's hugely helpful to let go of that image. Rather than being before
him, showing him, walk beside him and help him explore what interests
him in the ways that interest him. *Do* point out new things that
might interest him. Do be ready to move where he goes when he's not
interested.
And there's the added factor that kids need to be developmentally
ready to read. While we can "teach" them history, eg, run information
by them and many of them will absorb something, teaching reading
isn't the same. It's no more effective than teaching a child to ride
a bicycle. We can end up thinking we were responsible, but ultimately
we're just waving our hands and the kids are figuring it out through
trial and error.
offer without a hidden agenda. If you see a movie you think your
husband would like, the only motive is to point out something you
think would make him happy that he might not know about.
With kids, parents can often unconsciously be thinking, "This would
be good for him. This would help him. I'd really like him to enjoy
doing this." Those thoughts don't go through our heads when
interacting with a friend or partner. Even if we do slip into that
kind of thinking with a friend (like when they're having a problem
and we think we know what they should do to fix it), we at least have
the understanding that we don't have the power to make them change.
But we can unconsciously believe that we have the power to mold and
shape a child.
unschooling. But here's the key to your question: "to give them
something which is educational." You're dividing the world into
educational and fun. Some things are educational, like painting
letters. Some things, like throwing water at the fence (for instance)
isn't.
For unschoolers, it's *all* educational. Kids are *always* learning.
If something is driving them to explore something, they are truly and
profoundly learning. The problem is it doesn't look like learning we
recognize. We can't know what connections they're making, what
discoveries. And if we guess, it seems trivial compared to painting
letters which feels like a step that leads to something concretely
important.
A long time unschooler can sit with a child and draw letters on a
Magna Doodle together and it be unschooling. A worried new unschooler
can sit with a child and draw letters on a Magna Doodle and feel the
knot loosen in her stomach that her child is finally moving towards
"important knowledge". It's not the actions that make it unschooling
or not. It's the state of the mom's mind.
By reading a lot. By observing and seeing the real learning
happening. When they come and say "There's 9 feet in 3 yards," that
they heard on a commercial for Fruit Rollups.
You realize they are putting the pieces of the puzzle together in
their own way and seeing the picture evolving without us pointing it
out. And you realize they're doing that by watching TV and playing
video games and throwing water against the fence ;-)
advantages and disadvantages. Movies have their advantages and
disadvantages. So does listening on tape. So does listening to a
story teller. Doing something else entirely has its advantages and
disadvantages.
With movies we don't get much inside characters' heads. All we see is
their external reactions. That's not bad. It's just different. But
the beauty is, that without making kids read instead of watch movies
because reading is supposedly superior, they have the freedom to
explore what they like and dislike about each media, draw conclusions
about which is better for what they want this particular time. We've
read Harry Potter. We've listened to it on tape. We've watched the
movies. They're all different and all add something to the experience
in their own unique way.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I never had the idea of sitting him down for any kind of lessons.I didn't get the idea from what you wrote that you wanted to do
lessons. But I did get the impression you had the desire to be the
font from which he drinks his knowledge from, with the desire to see
understanding unfolding because of what you've done for him.
It's hugely helpful to let go of that image. Rather than being before
him, showing him, walk beside him and help him explore what interests
him in the ways that interest him. *Do* point out new things that
might interest him. Do be ready to move where he goes when he's not
interested.
And there's the added factor that kids need to be developmentally
ready to read. While we can "teach" them history, eg, run information
by them and many of them will absorb something, teaching reading
isn't the same. It's no more effective than teaching a child to ride
a bicycle. We can end up thinking we were responsible, but ultimately
we're just waving our hands and the kids are figuring it out through
trial and error.
>> It's a way of saying look first towards what you think *he* mightActually I'm not exactly sure what I meant either ;-) I think I meant
>> enjoy, not at
>> what you think would be a fun activity, if you see the difference.
>
> Im having trouble understanding the differentiation there
offer without a hidden agenda. If you see a movie you think your
husband would like, the only motive is to point out something you
think would make him happy that he might not know about.
With kids, parents can often unconsciously be thinking, "This would
be good for him. This would help him. I'd really like him to enjoy
doing this." Those thoughts don't go through our heads when
interacting with a friend or partner. Even if we do slip into that
kind of thinking with a friend (like when they're having a problem
and we think we know what they should do to fix it), we at least have
the understanding that we don't have the power to make them change.
But we can unconsciously believe that we have the power to mold and
shape a child.
> Because it looks like something fun that my child will enjoy andIt's not "bad" to do "educational" things. "Educational" can even be
> will also help him
> 'learn' letters/words/whatever. I would like to know more about why
> this is bad, to give them something which is educational, with the
> intention that they will pick up something/anything from it?
unschooling. But here's the key to your question: "to give them
something which is educational." You're dividing the world into
educational and fun. Some things are educational, like painting
letters. Some things, like throwing water at the fence (for instance)
isn't.
For unschoolers, it's *all* educational. Kids are *always* learning.
If something is driving them to explore something, they are truly and
profoundly learning. The problem is it doesn't look like learning we
recognize. We can't know what connections they're making, what
discoveries. And if we guess, it seems trivial compared to painting
letters which feels like a step that leads to something concretely
important.
A long time unschooler can sit with a child and draw letters on a
Magna Doodle together and it be unschooling. A worried new unschooler
can sit with a child and draw letters on a Magna Doodle and feel the
knot loosen in her stomach that her child is finally moving towards
"important knowledge". It's not the actions that make it unschooling
or not. It's the state of the mom's mind.
> And how did you all get away from these kind of ulterior motives?Slowly.
By reading a lot. By observing and seeing the real learning
happening. When they come and say "There's 9 feet in 3 yards," that
they heard on a commercial for Fruit Rollups.
You realize they are putting the pieces of the puzzle together in
their own way and seeing the picture evolving without us pointing it
out. And you realize they're doing that by watching TV and playing
video games and throwing water against the fence ;-)
> After all, why read a story when you can watch the movie faster and*If* that's the reason for taking in a story. Reading has it's
> more vividly ;)
advantages and disadvantages. Movies have their advantages and
disadvantages. So does listening on tape. So does listening to a
story teller. Doing something else entirely has its advantages and
disadvantages.
With movies we don't get much inside characters' heads. All we see is
their external reactions. That's not bad. It's just different. But
the beauty is, that without making kids read instead of watch movies
because reading is supposedly superior, they have the freedom to
explore what they like and dislike about each media, draw conclusions
about which is better for what they want this particular time. We've
read Harry Potter. We've listened to it on tape. We've watched the
movies. They're all different and all add something to the experience
in their own unique way.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ejeosann
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
point out new things that might interest him. Do be ready to move
where he goes when he's not interested.>
I just wanted to say thank you for the way you have written this. I
have copied this part of your post in my journal.
I just wish I could really do this - fully - without all of the usual
things (groceries, dinner, dishes, email) to get in the way. I would
include my daughter (happily!) in these things, but she's not
interested. And the things that she is interested in change so
quickly, that I feel like I'm running in circles! Like we never really
get to hone in on anything to its core...
any thoughts anyone?
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 2008, at 10:30 PM, logan_rose_porter wrote:him explore what interests him in the ways that interest him. *Do*
>Rather than being before him, showing him, walk beside him and help
point out new things that might interest him. Do be ready to move
where he goes when he's not interested.>
I just wanted to say thank you for the way you have written this. I
have copied this part of your post in my journal.
I just wish I could really do this - fully - without all of the usual
things (groceries, dinner, dishes, email) to get in the way. I would
include my daughter (happily!) in these things, but she's not
interested. And the things that she is interested in change so
quickly, that I feel like I'm running in circles! Like we never really
get to hone in on anything to its core...
any thoughts anyone?
raisingexplorers
>Daily life doesn't have to 'get in the way.' All the things that you
> >Rather than being before him, showing him, walk beside him and help
> him explore what interests him in the ways that interest him. *Do*
> point out new things that might interest him. Do be ready to move
> where he goes when he's not interested.>
>
>
> I just wanted to say thank you for the way you have written this. I
> have copied this part of your post in my journal.
>
> I just wish I could really do this - fully - without all of the usual
> things (groceries, dinner, dishes, email) to get in the way.
mentioned are life learning experiences in themselves. For example, my
son is very math & number-oriented - at the grocery store, he likes to
weigh produce on the scales (i had mentioned before on a list, how he
saved me money by doing this. he insisted on weighing a bag of apples
marked 5 lbs, it was actually 4 lbs.) he likes to compare nutrition
labels between foods and learn what all those numbers mean to his body
and scout out lower prices & 'better deals'. as for household chores,
he's a self-proclaimed mad scientist and enjoys the aspect of mixing
up ingredients. so, we make our own cleaners and experiment with how
good they work.. we mix up laundry detergent, window cleaner,
all-purpose cleaner, then he's eager to test them. The boys also like
helping to grow our food in the garden, and cook our dinners. There
are aspects in just about everything to expand on children's interests
by hitting on subtle or even obvious similarities. don't pigeon-hole
their interests and expect that they just choose "one at a time," -
closing your eyes to the connectedness of it all.. and always believe
you can find engaging & interest-related experiences in ordinary,
everyday life.
I would
> include my daughter (happily!) in these things, but she's notI like a little bit of everything. For example, earlier in the year, I
> interested. And the things that she is interested in change so
> quickly, that I feel like I'm running in circles! Like we never really
> get to hone in on anything to its core...
learned to crochet.. after my initial explosion of interest cranked
out a teddy bear and a beanie in just a week.. my interest waned and I
moved on to other things. However, I keep my crochet materials
available and now just work on an on-going project. I just recently
completed a scarf that took me months to accomplish because I would go
for days (even weeks) without touching it, then spontaneously sit and
work on it for an hour or two. I usually have an initial explosion of
interest and then keep my materials available for little bursts of
interest over the course of months, or even years. I do this with just
about everything. The trick is, to keep the materials of the most
interesting things of the time available and ready to use. I get
bored with the 'same thing,' so I keep my options open with several
interests and always expanding that list of interests and things I
wish to learn or try. Just keep the materials out and about and maybe
she'll return for another burst. I do have lifelong interests, but my
participation waxes and wanes throughout my life. I have always loved
music, but have gone years without playing an instrument - only to
rediscover the enjoyment later down the road when something reminds me
out of the blue... but, there are similarities between music and other
interests I have. Like, my mom used to say that reading music was like
a different language to her. It is... and I see a similarity between
my love of "different languages," like music, actual different
languages, and I learned HTML, which is a "language." They all came
very easy to me.. but, many people wouldn't recognize the similarity
between playing a song on an instrument and building a website - it's
language.
Treat many of her interests as if you know they will return at some
point, because many of them will show up again and again.. and,
sometimes the interest in the subject may not be instantly
recognizable by you. She may be pursuing something that you don't
realize. I ask myself questions about my current interests, like.. Why
do I enjoy this? What interested me about learning this? and those
answers usually provide some insight that I didn't realize when I
began. Similarities, in my projects & interests, that weren't
completely obvious... such as, the way they stimulate & challenge my
mind, or the subtle skills of concentration or eye-hand coordination
they build, or intricacies and beauty that I see in the things that
other folks may not initially notice. Look for patterns, I guess is
good advice if you want to discover your daughters underlying
interests and talents.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 27, 2008, at 10:35 AM, ejeosann wrote:
is a choice. They aren't things you have to do, but things you choose
to do. And each can be rethought on how you approach them.
You can go to new grocery stores, especially ethnic ones. Explore
with her and if you miss
Dinners can be simplified sometimes. Crockpot. Sandwiches.
Rethink dishes. Use paper plates when you can. Keep a minimal number
of plates, glasses and utensils easily reachable for lunch and dinner
so you can't fall into the trap of letting them pile up. Rethink the
number of pots you use. Use the microwave more.
Email can be done early in the morning before she gets up or later
when she goes to sleep. Then turn off the computer if you have a
habit of checking a lot throughout the day.
Those aren't the only choices. They're different ways of looking at
the problem.
It's so easy to fall into the trap of thinking "If things were
different then I/we could be happy." But being happy involves working
with what you have available to you, not what you wish you had.
Do keep asking if she'd like to join you. Ask if she'd like to keep
you company while you do various tasks. Perhaps she can play or draw
while you do something. Or watch TV together while you do something.
I used to bring the vegetables to be chopped to the TV so I could be
with my daughter. Bringing laundry to fold is an easy thing.
But it's okay if she doesn't. Whatever she's doing is more
interesting and important to her. Don't wish she could change to fit
into some imagined unschooling ideal because the real unschooling
ideal is to adapt for the child you have. You're the one who will
need to change to meet her needs, not her.
to flit where her interest takes her than to settle for long in one
place. It's how she learns. That's what you need to feed. Bring out
old toys in new combinations (Barbies and Legos), explore new places
(new stores, new parks, etc.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> Rather than being before him, showing him, walk beside him and helpAll unschoolers have those things in their lives. And each of those
>> him explore what interests him in the ways that interest him. *Do*
>> point out new things that might interest him. Do be ready to move
>> where he goes when he's not interested.
> I just wish I could really do this - fully - without all of the usual
> things (groceries, dinner, dishes, email) to get in the way.
is a choice. They aren't things you have to do, but things you choose
to do. And each can be rethought on how you approach them.
You can go to new grocery stores, especially ethnic ones. Explore
with her and if you miss
Dinners can be simplified sometimes. Crockpot. Sandwiches.
Rethink dishes. Use paper plates when you can. Keep a minimal number
of plates, glasses and utensils easily reachable for lunch and dinner
so you can't fall into the trap of letting them pile up. Rethink the
number of pots you use. Use the microwave more.
Email can be done early in the morning before she gets up or later
when she goes to sleep. Then turn off the computer if you have a
habit of checking a lot throughout the day.
Those aren't the only choices. They're different ways of looking at
the problem.
> I wouldAnd that's who she is.
> include my daughter (happily!) in these things, but she's not
> interested.
It's so easy to fall into the trap of thinking "If things were
different then I/we could be happy." But being happy involves working
with what you have available to you, not what you wish you had.
Do keep asking if she'd like to join you. Ask if she'd like to keep
you company while you do various tasks. Perhaps she can play or draw
while you do something. Or watch TV together while you do something.
I used to bring the vegetables to be chopped to the TV so I could be
with my daughter. Bringing laundry to fold is an easy thing.
But it's okay if she doesn't. Whatever she's doing is more
interesting and important to her. Don't wish she could change to fit
into some imagined unschooling ideal because the real unschooling
ideal is to adapt for the child you have. You're the one who will
need to change to meet her needs, not her.
> And the things that she is interested in change soAnd perhaps she'll always be this way. To her, right now, it's better
> quickly, that I feel like I'm running in circles! Like we never really
> get to hone in on anything to its core...
to flit where her interest takes her than to settle for long in one
place. It's how she learns. That's what you need to feed. Bring out
old toys in new combinations (Barbies and Legos), explore new places
(new stores, new parks, etc.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 29, 2008, at 6:06 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
If you miss what you came for, keep in mind that you can do a fill in
excursion to your regular store.
together while you do tasks around the house.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> You can go to new grocery stores, especially ethnic ones. ExploreOops, didn't finish.
> with her and if you miss
If you miss what you came for, keep in mind that you can do a fill in
excursion to your regular store.
> Do keep asking if she'd like to join you. Ask if she'd like to keepI remembered book on tape (well CD now!) which can easily be done
> you company while you do various tasks. Perhaps she can play or draw
> while you do something. Or watch TV together while you do something.
> I used to bring the vegetables to be chopped to the TV so I could be
> with my daughter. Bringing laundry to fold is an easy thing.
together while you do tasks around the house.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "ejeosann"
<smallsmallworld@...> wrote:
last night she and I did some brainstorming about things she *is*
interested in that George can do with her, or hang out with her while
she does them - he's the at-home parent, and temporarily disabled, so
he's been sort of floundering. It helps him to have an "idea list"
like that so he doesn't just "go on autopilot" as it were. Mo's
pretty independent, so its important to check in with her regularly
and offer to do something - otherwise *she* is just as likely to go
on autopilot and then complain later that daddy is dull and never
does anything with her :(
bopping from legos to trucks to jumping on the furniture to running
in circles barking like a dog? Or are we talking about a 7yo who
starts a lot of projects but never seems to finish any? While those
are both pretty "normal" (at least from an unschooling perspective)
they take some different strategies on the parenting end of things.
Both my kids have things they dive into and really plumb the depths
of - but they also *mostly* dabble. Its not uncommon for Ray to be
interested in something for a couple weeks and then drop it entirely.
Mo may get into something for a whole day and then not want to do it
anymore - sometimes for weeks, sometimes never. They both have areas
of interest that they keep coming back to, but never seem to really
get fully imersed in.
There are different ways of learning, for sure - and its pretty
common to use more than one way of learning over the course of a
lifetime. Your dd is doing a lot of dabbling right now, that's one
way, like sampling at a buffet but never filling a whole plate. She
may be cycling back to certain things, over and over. That's another
way of learning - you "nibble" and wander off and then come back for
another "bite" later. She may someday settle down for a nice "full
meal" as it were, but maybe not. It all depends on how her mind
works. She could just as easily go on dabbling, or nibbling, or even
do a sort of multitasking where she nibbles and dabbles at several
different things at the same time - think of any hobbyists you know
who always seem to have a dozen projects going at once and you'll
know what I mean.
The best way *I've* found to support a family member who likes to
dabble (or any variation thereof) is to stockpile general supplies
*and* interesting stuff. I'm always on the lookout at yardsales,
thrift stores, junk sales, auctions... for good deals on any kind of
neat stuff to have on-hand. That way I have lots of things to offer -
including a day of digging around in boxes!
Sandra has a related article here:
http://sandradodd.com/museum
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<smallsmallworld@...> wrote:
>(groceries, dinner, dishes, email)... I wouldMo's not terribly interested in any of those things, either. Just
> include my daughter (happily!) in these things, but she's not
> interested.
last night she and I did some brainstorming about things she *is*
interested in that George can do with her, or hang out with her while
she does them - he's the at-home parent, and temporarily disabled, so
he's been sort of floundering. It helps him to have an "idea list"
like that so he doesn't just "go on autopilot" as it were. Mo's
pretty independent, so its important to check in with her regularly
and offer to do something - otherwise *she* is just as likely to go
on autopilot and then complain later that daddy is dull and never
does anything with her :(
> And the things that she is interested in change soreally
> quickly, that I feel like I'm running in circles! Like we never
> get to hone in on anything to its core...How old is she and how quickly are we talking about? Is this a 3yo
bopping from legos to trucks to jumping on the furniture to running
in circles barking like a dog? Or are we talking about a 7yo who
starts a lot of projects but never seems to finish any? While those
are both pretty "normal" (at least from an unschooling perspective)
they take some different strategies on the parenting end of things.
Both my kids have things they dive into and really plumb the depths
of - but they also *mostly* dabble. Its not uncommon for Ray to be
interested in something for a couple weeks and then drop it entirely.
Mo may get into something for a whole day and then not want to do it
anymore - sometimes for weeks, sometimes never. They both have areas
of interest that they keep coming back to, but never seem to really
get fully imersed in.
There are different ways of learning, for sure - and its pretty
common to use more than one way of learning over the course of a
lifetime. Your dd is doing a lot of dabbling right now, that's one
way, like sampling at a buffet but never filling a whole plate. She
may be cycling back to certain things, over and over. That's another
way of learning - you "nibble" and wander off and then come back for
another "bite" later. She may someday settle down for a nice "full
meal" as it were, but maybe not. It all depends on how her mind
works. She could just as easily go on dabbling, or nibbling, or even
do a sort of multitasking where she nibbles and dabbles at several
different things at the same time - think of any hobbyists you know
who always seem to have a dozen projects going at once and you'll
know what I mean.
The best way *I've* found to support a family member who likes to
dabble (or any variation thereof) is to stockpile general supplies
*and* interesting stuff. I'm always on the lookout at yardsales,
thrift stores, junk sales, auctions... for good deals on any kind of
neat stuff to have on-hand. That way I have lots of things to offer -
including a day of digging around in boxes!
Sandra has a related article here:
http://sandradodd.com/museum
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Debra Rossing
> Like we never really get to hone in on anything to its core...Maybe stop trying to 'hone in' to some 'core' and instead see the
momentary interest as valid, valuable, in and of itself. Is there a real
Need for a young child to dig all the way to some "core"? The depth that
an individual goes to at a given time is exactly as deep as they need to
go. Think more spiral rather than vertical. Interests can come and go in
a heartbeat, but the ones that truly resonate with a person come back
around again and again, each time adding a new connection, new depth,
new richness.
Consider: when you are introduced to a huge, beautiful buffet (given
that we're smack in the middle of Food Season lol) do you grab a plate
and sit down and eat a whole plate of mashed potatoes and only when
you've "thoroughly explored" the mashed potatoes, then you move on to
the green bean casserole? Or, like most folks, do you browse the
offerings and take bits of whatever looks interesting and then after
having viewed and sampled and taken a spoonful here and a bite there,
you go back and take larger portions of the things that struck a chord
with your taste buds. And even then, you might take maybe two spoonfuls
of a variety of things still, and then go back for bigger servings
later. Learning has a lot of parallels to eating - digestion and
learning are both internal to the individual; each person's needs and
wants are different, each person's goals are different (some folks just
want to eat enough to stay alive - it can be the same oatmeal every day;
others specifically savor the flavors, colors, textures; others are
explorers, seeking out new foods, new combinations; and so on). So too
with learning - some folks want just the bare bones they need to get to
their goal, others seek out new areas to explore all the time, and
others savor specific things (for example, people who relish pure
theoretical mathematics). Small children, particularly, haven't 'tasted'
a lot of things just yet, so it's pretty usual for them to want to
sample a lot of things, in rapid sequence before 'digging in' to a whole
plateful, just as they are more likely to graze throughout the day -
carrot sticks, apples, peanut butter, raisins, cereal, and so on -
rather than eat just a couple larger meals.
Deb R
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