question about buying kids toys
jenniferbreseman
Hi, I'm Jennifer, I have 2 kids 6 & 3. I've been reading here for
almost a year and have learned so much. Most of my questions get
answered without my having to ask them, sometimes in the same day that
they come up, which is cool. I'm struggling with something now, that
I'd like some perspectives on. I used to be controling of what toys my
kids would be allowed to have and what I would buy them. I've let go
of that and now they're happily enjoying Barbies, Transformers, lego
etc., and I'm really enjoying watching how that opens up all kinds of
worlds for them. We're all a lot happier. What I'm struggling with
now is that they will ask several times a week to go to Target to buy
another toy. I'm feeling uncomfortable about this. My husband and I
are restrained in our spending and will save up to buy luxuries for
ourselves. We live in a smallish house and don't have the latest
gadgets. I've been trying giving the 6 year old a generous allowance,
but when he spends that he wants me to buy whatever it is he wants for
him. Of course he sees that I always have money for food, clothes and
other things I buy for the household so it doesn't make sense to him
that he can't have what he wants too. How do you handle this? I'm
searching for a way to talk about this with him that will make sense in
his world. Thank you. Jennifer
almost a year and have learned so much. Most of my questions get
answered without my having to ask them, sometimes in the same day that
they come up, which is cool. I'm struggling with something now, that
I'd like some perspectives on. I used to be controling of what toys my
kids would be allowed to have and what I would buy them. I've let go
of that and now they're happily enjoying Barbies, Transformers, lego
etc., and I'm really enjoying watching how that opens up all kinds of
worlds for them. We're all a lot happier. What I'm struggling with
now is that they will ask several times a week to go to Target to buy
another toy. I'm feeling uncomfortable about this. My husband and I
are restrained in our spending and will save up to buy luxuries for
ourselves. We live in a smallish house and don't have the latest
gadgets. I've been trying giving the 6 year old a generous allowance,
but when he spends that he wants me to buy whatever it is he wants for
him. Of course he sees that I always have money for food, clothes and
other things I buy for the household so it doesn't make sense to him
that he can't have what he wants too. How do you handle this? I'm
searching for a way to talk about this with him that will make sense in
his world. Thank you. Jennifer
Bekki Kirby
I'm having a similar issue, but with my 3 1/2 year old. He can't
handle waiting for things to arrive from catalogs even... cries and
cries, sometimes getting angry at me, like I'm causing the item to not
be here yet. We have been spending more and more on toys (and
especially video games) and are running out room to put things
(neither of my kids will willingly part with a toy, even if broken
beyond repair), and we simply can't afford to buy every new game or
toy. There's never "enough" for him... the more we buy, the more he
wants. I realize it's probably unrealistic for me to expect a 3 1/2
year old to understand "enough." But I'm feeling very frustrated. I
don't know how to talk to him about it.
I have started hiding the ad flyers that come in the paper, because he
spends hours looking at them and telling me that he wants basically
every toy in them.
I would love to provide more details, but he's on my lap, jumping off
into a basket, and climbing back up. I'm a little distracted. :-)
Bekki
handle waiting for things to arrive from catalogs even... cries and
cries, sometimes getting angry at me, like I'm causing the item to not
be here yet. We have been spending more and more on toys (and
especially video games) and are running out room to put things
(neither of my kids will willingly part with a toy, even if broken
beyond repair), and we simply can't afford to buy every new game or
toy. There's never "enough" for him... the more we buy, the more he
wants. I realize it's probably unrealistic for me to expect a 3 1/2
year old to understand "enough." But I'm feeling very frustrated. I
don't know how to talk to him about it.
I have started hiding the ad flyers that come in the paper, because he
spends hours looking at them and telling me that he wants basically
every toy in them.
I would love to provide more details, but he's on my lap, jumping off
into a basket, and climbing back up. I'm a little distracted. :-)
Bekki
Jamie Minnis
I have had VERY similar experiences. However, I am new to unschooling and would like some feedback on my approach to this issue.
My son, age 6, is constantly telling me each and every new toy that he wants and that his life will end if he doesn't have it. At first, I felt very bothered by this and hated explaining to him (over and over again) that we didn't have the money for ___________ right now, but we would all work to save up for it. The guilt that I felt each time I had to explain why I couldn't meet his need was overwhelming and I found myself getting very angry at him. These explanations didn't seem to slow down his "begging" (as I saw it at the time). Finally, I just started asking him what he likes about said toy and what he would like to do with it. Our simple discussion about how cool the toy is and what it can/can not do has seemed to be enough. He does get a lot of toys (in comparison to others we know), as does his brother (1 year younger), so it is simply a matter of time (and money of course) before he gets everything he wants. I think that not only
does he want to own these toys, but he wants to talk about them and share his excitement and plans. I now see that he is just wanting to talk to me about whatever it is at the moment, just like I like to talk to my husband about the things I would like for around the house or the christmas presents I would like to buy for others. The sharing is what is important, whether or not he actually gets his heart's desire at this very moment.
Am I handling this in the correct, relationship-strengthening unschooling manner? Any thoughts would be wonderful! Thanks!
Jamie
My son, age 6, is constantly telling me each and every new toy that he wants and that his life will end if he doesn't have it. At first, I felt very bothered by this and hated explaining to him (over and over again) that we didn't have the money for ___________ right now, but we would all work to save up for it. The guilt that I felt each time I had to explain why I couldn't meet his need was overwhelming and I found myself getting very angry at him. These explanations didn't seem to slow down his "begging" (as I saw it at the time). Finally, I just started asking him what he likes about said toy and what he would like to do with it. Our simple discussion about how cool the toy is and what it can/can not do has seemed to be enough. He does get a lot of toys (in comparison to others we know), as does his brother (1 year younger), so it is simply a matter of time (and money of course) before he gets everything he wants. I think that not only
does he want to own these toys, but he wants to talk about them and share his excitement and plans. I now see that he is just wanting to talk to me about whatever it is at the moment, just like I like to talk to my husband about the things I would like for around the house or the christmas presents I would like to buy for others. The sharing is what is important, whether or not he actually gets his heart's desire at this very moment.
Am I handling this in the correct, relationship-strengthening unschooling manner? Any thoughts would be wonderful! Thanks!
Jamie
--- On Wed, 10/8/08, Bekki Kirby <junegoddess@...> wrote:
From: Bekki Kirby <junegoddess@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] question about buying kids toys
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 12:35 PM
I'm having a similar issue, but with my 3 1/2 year old. He can't
handle waiting for things to arrive from catalogs even... cries and
cries, sometimes getting angry at me, like I'm causing the item to not
be here yet. We have been spending more and more on toys (and
especially video games) and are running out room to put things
(neither of my kids will willingly part with a toy, even if broken
beyond repair), and we simply can't afford to buy every new game or
toy. There's never "enough" for him... the more we buy, the more he
wants. I realize it's probably unrealistic for me to expect a 3 1/2
year old to understand "enough." But I'm feeling very frustrated. I
don't know how to talk to him about it.
I have started hiding the ad flyers that come in the paper, because he
spends hours looking at them and telling me that he wants basically
every toy in them.
I would love to provide more details, but he's on my lap, jumping off
into a basket, and climbing back up. I'm a little distracted. :-)
Bekki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "jenniferbreseman"
<jen@...> wrote:
there seems to be all this money being spent, why does he only get
what he gets? and then why can't you just buy things for him when he
runs out? He needs help understanding family finances and how that
relates to him. How to help him understand... that's going to depend
a whole lot on his personality, how he likes to learn about things,
and his interest level.
Mo just turned 7, and isn't much interested in the complexity and
nuances of our family finances - mostly she wants to know what the
budget is when we go to the store, and how much of that
is "available". We've been talking about that consistently for a few
years, now, so she has the idea of a budget and how we all decide
where to allocate funds. She's also been a part of the allocation
process in simple, direct ways - "Hey this cereal is on sale, if we
get it instead of the usual we'll have a few more dollars for toys"
is one kind of example. Another is "Oh, that toy is eight dollars
and I only have six... but I guess I don't need all these cinnamon
scented candles, if I put all but one back that will give us the
difference."
With Ray we tend to talk about finances on a broader scale. He
doesn't want to know all the gritty details of our debts and
financial woes, but we let him know how we're doing financially and
how much discretionary money is available for the family as a whole.
How that money is spent is something that's decided on a family
level - it might be divided or spent on something for the whole
family.
be aware of those kinds of expectations - especially if they are
lurking below the surface of awareness. On some level you expect him
to be happy (or at least okay) with the amount you've decided upon.
That's not necessarily a reasonable expectation - he doesn't know a
whole lot about the realities of where money comes from or goes to.
Working toward making family finances more transparent to him will
help him develop some understanding of the household economics and
how they relate to him.
spending habits and my kids' to thinking about the deep, gut-level
reasoning behind the way I choose to budget. On that note, what does
buying luxuries do for you on a personal level? Does it make you
feel cared for? Like you have all you want in the world (even for a
moment)? Consider that your kids might be looking to meet similar
needs, just in different ways. They might *always* choose to meet
their needs for self-care and abundance in ways different from
yours, or that might be something that changes with maturity. You
don't know. So rather than insisting they follow your path to
feelings of care and plenty, support their own attempts to meet
those needs right now, and look for other ways to help them meet
those needs.
I've also found it helpful, time and time again, to think about my
principles and how I wanted to express those - in whatever area of
my life I see conflict. So maybe you feel your spending
is "restrained" - but that may be coming across to your 6yo as
stinginess. Is that the kind of principle you're trying to convey? I
like to actively look for ways to express kindness and generosity to
my kids - ways that *they* can clearly see in the moment.
Now, all this may sound like I'm saying "get your butt in the car
and buy another Transformer!" which isn't *necessarily* the case ;)
In the shorter run it may help the whole family if you can dip
deeper into the wells of kindness and re-do the budget with more kid-
spending in mind. In the longer run, I think you'll find that
bringing the kids more into the process of talking and thinking
about finances and how they are spent will help.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<jen@...> wrote:
> I've been trying giving the 6 year old a generous allowance,for
> but when he spends that he wants me to buy whatever it is he wants
> him. Of course he sees that I always have money for food, clothesand
> other things I buy for the household so it doesn't make sense tohim
> that he can't have what he wants too.You're right, the problem is that it doesn't make sense to him -
there seems to be all this money being spent, why does he only get
what he gets? and then why can't you just buy things for him when he
runs out? He needs help understanding family finances and how that
relates to him. How to help him understand... that's going to depend
a whole lot on his personality, how he likes to learn about things,
and his interest level.
Mo just turned 7, and isn't much interested in the complexity and
nuances of our family finances - mostly she wants to know what the
budget is when we go to the store, and how much of that
is "available". We've been talking about that consistently for a few
years, now, so she has the idea of a budget and how we all decide
where to allocate funds. She's also been a part of the allocation
process in simple, direct ways - "Hey this cereal is on sale, if we
get it instead of the usual we'll have a few more dollars for toys"
is one kind of example. Another is "Oh, that toy is eight dollars
and I only have six... but I guess I don't need all these cinnamon
scented candles, if I put all but one back that will give us the
difference."
With Ray we tend to talk about finances on a broader scale. He
doesn't want to know all the gritty details of our debts and
financial woes, but we let him know how we're doing financially and
how much discretionary money is available for the family as a whole.
How that money is spent is something that's decided on a family
level - it might be divided or spent on something for the whole
family.
> I've been trying giving the 6 year old a generous allowanceSaying "generous" implies an expectation of gratitude. Its useful to
be aware of those kinds of expectations - especially if they are
lurking below the surface of awareness. On some level you expect him
to be happy (or at least okay) with the amount you've decided upon.
That's not necessarily a reasonable expectation - he doesn't know a
whole lot about the realities of where money comes from or goes to.
Working toward making family finances more transparent to him will
help him develop some understanding of the household economics and
how they relate to him.
>My husband and Ifor
> are restrained in our spending and will save up to buy luxuries
> ourselves.I found it helpful to shift my thinking away from comparing my
spending habits and my kids' to thinking about the deep, gut-level
reasoning behind the way I choose to budget. On that note, what does
buying luxuries do for you on a personal level? Does it make you
feel cared for? Like you have all you want in the world (even for a
moment)? Consider that your kids might be looking to meet similar
needs, just in different ways. They might *always* choose to meet
their needs for self-care and abundance in ways different from
yours, or that might be something that changes with maturity. You
don't know. So rather than insisting they follow your path to
feelings of care and plenty, support their own attempts to meet
those needs right now, and look for other ways to help them meet
those needs.
I've also found it helpful, time and time again, to think about my
principles and how I wanted to express those - in whatever area of
my life I see conflict. So maybe you feel your spending
is "restrained" - but that may be coming across to your 6yo as
stinginess. Is that the kind of principle you're trying to convey? I
like to actively look for ways to express kindness and generosity to
my kids - ways that *they* can clearly see in the moment.
Now, all this may sound like I'm saying "get your butt in the car
and buy another Transformer!" which isn't *necessarily* the case ;)
In the shorter run it may help the whole family if you can dip
deeper into the wells of kindness and re-do the budget with more kid-
spending in mind. In the longer run, I think you'll find that
bringing the kids more into the process of talking and thinking
about finances and how they are spent will help.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
[email protected]
?
Jamie
sounds like it's working for your family.? and he's satisfied with what you're doing.? how could that not be the "correct" way?? just my opinion though, but i'm also new to unschooling.?
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>Am I handling this in the correct, relationship-strengthening >>unschooling manner?? Any thoughts would be wonderful! Thanks!?
Jamie
sounds like it's working for your family.? and he's satisfied with what you're doing.? how could that not be the "correct" way?? just my opinion though, but i'm also new to unschooling.?
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Holli J
Hello~
I have been lurking for sometime now and I just want to say a BIG Thank You!
I have learned so much! You are all so generous with your time and
thoughtful responses...it is very comforting to know this community exists!
I was more than thrilled to find you.
Since this is my first time posting I want to quickly introduce myself. I
am a wife to my DH and mom to two wonderful (never schooled!!) kids....DS
(4) & DD (2). We are so thrilled with every aspect of unschooling!! I find
myself wanting to shout from the roof tops how wonderful an unschooling life
is :)
A little background before my question: my family is surrounded by
water...meaning...we live on a lake, my parents live on a lake, my in-laws
have an indoor pool...everywhere my children spend a significant amount of
time they are surrounded by water! We love(!) the water and all the
activities that go with water. That being said, I have to admit when my DS
was born I did have a strong feelings that he would *need* swimming
instruction for safety reasons. Thankfully, I have resisted the urge to
push swimming lessons, realizing that it was my own contrived fears and not
my DS. What has resulted is my DS has been *teaching* himself water
skills¹ such as floating on his back, holding his breathe underwater, and
actually swimming!!
Today I received an email from my cousin (who has good intentions) with two
video attachments for a safety swim technique (I have attached them below).
The safety video shows a specific technique teaching infants/children to
roll onto their back and float to survive a fall into a swimming pool or
deep water. The second video is the Today Show interviewing the creator of
this technique. I admit I was intrigued by what I saw yet conflicted at
what the process would be for a child to learn such a technique. Of course,
I would find comfort knowing that my children could survive a fall into deep
water....who wouldn¹t?!? But I am very interested in an unschoolers view.
Is this similar to a helmet or no helmet when biking discussion?? Would an
unschooler consider this for their child for safety?? Why or why not??
http://www.childdrowningprevention.com/index.html
http://isrtallahassee.com/
Thank you in advance for engaging in this discussion :)
Holli (Quinn 4, Paige 2 in 8 days!!)
-I apologize for the cross post...is it preferred to not have that happen??
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have been lurking for sometime now and I just want to say a BIG Thank You!
I have learned so much! You are all so generous with your time and
thoughtful responses...it is very comforting to know this community exists!
I was more than thrilled to find you.
Since this is my first time posting I want to quickly introduce myself. I
am a wife to my DH and mom to two wonderful (never schooled!!) kids....DS
(4) & DD (2). We are so thrilled with every aspect of unschooling!! I find
myself wanting to shout from the roof tops how wonderful an unschooling life
is :)
A little background before my question: my family is surrounded by
water...meaning...we live on a lake, my parents live on a lake, my in-laws
have an indoor pool...everywhere my children spend a significant amount of
time they are surrounded by water! We love(!) the water and all the
activities that go with water. That being said, I have to admit when my DS
was born I did have a strong feelings that he would *need* swimming
instruction for safety reasons. Thankfully, I have resisted the urge to
push swimming lessons, realizing that it was my own contrived fears and not
my DS. What has resulted is my DS has been *teaching* himself water
skills¹ such as floating on his back, holding his breathe underwater, and
actually swimming!!
Today I received an email from my cousin (who has good intentions) with two
video attachments for a safety swim technique (I have attached them below).
The safety video shows a specific technique teaching infants/children to
roll onto their back and float to survive a fall into a swimming pool or
deep water. The second video is the Today Show interviewing the creator of
this technique. I admit I was intrigued by what I saw yet conflicted at
what the process would be for a child to learn such a technique. Of course,
I would find comfort knowing that my children could survive a fall into deep
water....who wouldn¹t?!? But I am very interested in an unschoolers view.
Is this similar to a helmet or no helmet when biking discussion?? Would an
unschooler consider this for their child for safety?? Why or why not??
http://www.childdrowningprevention.com/index.html
http://isrtallahassee.com/
Thank you in advance for engaging in this discussion :)
Holli (Quinn 4, Paige 2 in 8 days!!)
-I apologize for the cross post...is it preferred to not have that happen??
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Krest
Holli-
I live in Florida, where drowning deaths are touted as being a huge concern. I unfortunately enrolled my son in a drowning prevention class when he was an infant. I regret having done it and I would never recommend it to anyone. I have a friend who
feels the same way...and they have a swimming pool.
I believe it goes against unschooling as it forces a child to do something that is against most human nature. Who would willingly go into the water when they cannot swim?
A child that young has no say in the matter, and it was obviously distressing to the ones I saw.
My son now loves the water and can swim fairly well...by choice. He wanted to swim, he wanted us to show him. But, there was fear we had to overcome, and I believe it stemmed from that class.
The class calls upon the fear of parents, esp those living near water. Keep an incredibly close eye on them, do your best to ensure their safety, and swim with them, making it fun.
Robin
Independent Future Director and Trainer with The Pampered Chef
727.823.7246
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/RobinKrest
-- Holli J <holli@...> wrote:
Today I received an email from my cousin (who has good intentions) with two
video attachments for a safety swim technique (I have attached them below).
The safety video shows a specific technique teaching infants/children to
roll onto their back and float to survive a fall into a swimming pool or
deep water. The second video is the Today Show interviewing the creator of
this technique. I admit I was intrigued by what I saw yet conflicted at
what the process would be for a child to learn such a technique. Of course,
I would find comfort knowing that my children could survive a fall into deep
water....who wouldn¹t?!? But I am very interested in an unschoolers view.
Is this similar to a helmet or no helmet when biking discussion?? Would an
unschooler consider this for their child for safety?? Why or why not??
http://www.childdrowningprevention.com/index.html
http://isrtallahassee.com/
Thank you in advance for engaging in this discussion :)
Holli (Quinn 4, Paige 2 in 8 days!!)
-I apologize for the cross post...is it preferred to not have that happen??
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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____________________________________________________________
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http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m1c6Zz0bWTTVesjUKdvn1D9ovuZ6mouxXMWNYhJc7lserkz/
I live in Florida, where drowning deaths are touted as being a huge concern. I unfortunately enrolled my son in a drowning prevention class when he was an infant. I regret having done it and I would never recommend it to anyone. I have a friend who
feels the same way...and they have a swimming pool.
I believe it goes against unschooling as it forces a child to do something that is against most human nature. Who would willingly go into the water when they cannot swim?
A child that young has no say in the matter, and it was obviously distressing to the ones I saw.
My son now loves the water and can swim fairly well...by choice. He wanted to swim, he wanted us to show him. But, there was fear we had to overcome, and I believe it stemmed from that class.
The class calls upon the fear of parents, esp those living near water. Keep an incredibly close eye on them, do your best to ensure their safety, and swim with them, making it fun.
Robin
Independent Future Director and Trainer with The Pampered Chef
727.823.7246
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/RobinKrest
-- Holli J <holli@...> wrote:
Today I received an email from my cousin (who has good intentions) with two
video attachments for a safety swim technique (I have attached them below).
The safety video shows a specific technique teaching infants/children to
roll onto their back and float to survive a fall into a swimming pool or
deep water. The second video is the Today Show interviewing the creator of
this technique. I admit I was intrigued by what I saw yet conflicted at
what the process would be for a child to learn such a technique. Of course,
I would find comfort knowing that my children could survive a fall into deep
water....who wouldn¹t?!? But I am very interested in an unschoolers view.
Is this similar to a helmet or no helmet when biking discussion?? Would an
unschooler consider this for their child for safety?? Why or why not??
http://www.childdrowningprevention.com/index.html
http://isrtallahassee.com/
Thank you in advance for engaging in this discussion :)
Holli (Quinn 4, Paige 2 in 8 days!!)
-I apologize for the cross post...is it preferred to not have that happen??
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
____________________________________________________________
Experience the rustic luxury that comes with building a log home. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m1c6Zz0bWTTVesjUKdvn1D9ovuZ6mouxXMWNYhJc7lserkz/
Faith Void
We have always written down what the kids wanted. We bring pen and paper
with us on the rare excursion to a store. It makes the trip take longer but
it helps us. We now have a vision board to work on bring the things we
really want into our lives.
Right now we have no (zero) discretionary money. So this is especially
important now. It saves me from about a million no's. It saves us from the
poverty (scarcity) mode of thinking.
Faith
with us on the rare excursion to a store. It makes the trip take longer but
it helps us. We now have a vision board to work on bring the things we
really want into our lives.
Right now we have no (zero) discretionary money. So this is especially
important now. It saves me from about a million no's. It saves us from the
poverty (scarcity) mode of thinking.
Faith
On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:14 PM, <HoneyBeeECPlus3@...> wrote:
> ?
>
> >>Am I handling this in the correct, relationship-strengthening
> >>unschooling manner?? Any thoughts would be wonderful! Thanks!
>
> ?
>
> Jamie
>
> sounds like it's working for your family.? and he's satisfied with what
> you're doing.? how could that not be the "correct" way?? just my opinion
> though, but i'm also new to unschooling.?
>
> .
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Jamie Minnis
<jamieminnis@...> wrote:
how cool the toy is and what it can/can not do has seemed to be
enough.
**********************
This is a very important point! Its not uncommon for young children,
especially, to be satisfied in this way.
When Mo was younger we'd sometimes put everything she wanted to buy
at the store in the shopping cart and then go through later and only
buy a few things. Rather than being disappointed at buying
comparitively little, she enjoyed feeling like "this is All Mine"
for half an hour. Remember, to a young child, half an hour is a
looooong time!
Something else I discovered when Mo was young, was that "mommy look!
isn't this great?!" didn't necessarily mean "I want you to buy
this." Sometimes it meant exactly what an adult means, shopping with
a friend, saying "check this out". Its just an attempt to connect,
share an interest, make conversation. If I jumped right to "oh, I'm
sorry, we don't have the money for that" *I* was the one creating an
issue! So I learned to say "oh, look at that!" and make appreciative
conversation *without* being the one to bring up the topic of
purchase. And many times, the topic never came up.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<jamieminnis@...> wrote:
> Finally, I just started asking him what he likes about said toyand what he would like to do with it.? Our simple discussion about
how cool the toy is and what it can/can not do has seemed to be
enough.
**********************
This is a very important point! Its not uncommon for young children,
especially, to be satisfied in this way.
When Mo was younger we'd sometimes put everything she wanted to buy
at the store in the shopping cart and then go through later and only
buy a few things. Rather than being disappointed at buying
comparitively little, she enjoyed feeling like "this is All Mine"
for half an hour. Remember, to a young child, half an hour is a
looooong time!
Something else I discovered when Mo was young, was that "mommy look!
isn't this great?!" didn't necessarily mean "I want you to buy
this." Sometimes it meant exactly what an adult means, shopping with
a friend, saying "check this out". Its just an attempt to connect,
share an interest, make conversation. If I jumped right to "oh, I'm
sorry, we don't have the money for that" *I* was the one creating an
issue! So I learned to say "oh, look at that!" and make appreciative
conversation *without* being the one to bring up the topic of
purchase. And many times, the topic never came up.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Meredith
--- In [email protected], HoneyBeeECPlus3@... wrote:
my opinion though, but i'm also new to unschooling.?
************************
This is a general comment, not related to the specific topic (or
poster!) but to the ideas in the statement above.
It's possible for things to be "working" in a family where the kids
are just going along with what mom and dad want, because its easier
or because the kids are natural people-pleasers. That doesn't mean
parents are being respectful in the sense of striving to understand
the kids' perspectives, and value those perspectives.
Its possible for kids to be satisfied when parents have managed to
make the world small. Kids have an amazing capacity to make the best
of things! Unschooling is about making the world big and broad and
exciting for out kids - because kids want to learn about everything!
That doesn't necessarily mean travelling to China (Mo's current
favorite wish) but it does mean looking for a hundred and one ways
to meet her facination with China, even though if I dropped the
matter after one issue of National Geographic and a new cartoon
she'd probably be "satisfied". I know that she's not "full" yet.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
> sounds like it's working for your family.? and he's satisfied withwhat you're doing.? how could that not be the "correct" way?? just
my opinion though, but i'm also new to unschooling.?
************************
This is a general comment, not related to the specific topic (or
poster!) but to the ideas in the statement above.
It's possible for things to be "working" in a family where the kids
are just going along with what mom and dad want, because its easier
or because the kids are natural people-pleasers. That doesn't mean
parents are being respectful in the sense of striving to understand
the kids' perspectives, and value those perspectives.
Its possible for kids to be satisfied when parents have managed to
make the world small. Kids have an amazing capacity to make the best
of things! Unschooling is about making the world big and broad and
exciting for out kids - because kids want to learn about everything!
That doesn't necessarily mean travelling to China (Mo's current
favorite wish) but it does mean looking for a hundred and one ways
to meet her facination with China, even though if I dropped the
matter after one issue of National Geographic and a new cartoon
she'd probably be "satisfied". I know that she's not "full" yet.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Michele James-Parham
Meredith, is it possible for me to use the quoted text below in a blog
post?
michele
www.naturalattachment.net
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...>
post?
michele
www.naturalattachment.net
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...>
> > sounds like it's working for your family.? and he's satisfied with
> what you're doing.? how could that not be the "correct" way?? just
> my opinion though, but i'm also new to unschooling.?
> ************************
>
> This is a general comment, not related to the specific topic (or
> poster!) but to the ideas in the statement above.
>
> It's possible for things to be "working" in a family where the kids
> are just going along with what mom and dad want, because its easier
> or because the kids are natural people-pleasers. That doesn't mean
> parents are being respectful in the sense of striving to understand
> the kids' perspectives, and value those perspectives.
>
> Its possible for kids to be satisfied when parents have managed to
> make the world small. Kids have an amazing capacity to make the best
> of things! Unschooling is about making the world big and broad and
> exciting for out kids - because kids want to learn about everything!
amberlee_b
I guess I have a different take on this. Although I wouldn't force my child into the water, I
wouldn't be against this take. I think that we all were free floating for almost 9
months...so it would not be all that different at 6 months outside the body. I don't think
being in the water is against human nature, it is part of it. That being said I have 3 water
babies!!! We all love water and when they were little they WANTED to be in the water and I
was worried because I wasn't sure I could formally "teach" them to swim. I shouldn't have
worried. They don't swim in a formal manner even now but they do understand how float,
dog paddle, swim underwater, and tread water. Not because I taught them, they figured it
out. They have recently asked to take swimming lessons because they are interested in
going faster in the water...lol
When you talk about it as a "drowning protection" it seems mis-stated. I watched the
videos and the instructors don't seem to be doing anything to make the children afraid of
the water or fear being in the water. I can understand if you have a swimming pool in
your yard wanting to be sure your child is safe. When you have multiple little ones it
seems almost impossible to watch each child 100% of the time. If they are coming over to
play and show the child how to float in the water and the child is ok with that is that
against unschooling? If the child isn't interested and doesn't even like to be in a bathtub
with water then you would be forcing. Heck, I have seen fully clothed toddlers get into the
toilet, so I don't think being clothed or unclothed in a swimming pool is going to matter.
I think my kids would have begged me to have someone come and show them more if we
had a pool and opportunity. They have learned watching others in the water, watching
their parent swim and not having fear forced upon them (ie: "Don't jump in the deep end
you might drown", or anything that might make them afraid). I had a sister drown at a
swimming pool (she was 6 and a half years old)...if she had known something about
floating maybe it wouldn't have happened? Either way, she obviously wanted to be in the
water but just didn't know what to do once she was there.
If we as a family wanted a pool in our back yard I would want to at least show those
children interested how to float....but if the classes are just instilling more fear (which
from the video I didn't really get that) instead of truly helping then no they are not a good
idea.
wouldn't be against this take. I think that we all were free floating for almost 9
months...so it would not be all that different at 6 months outside the body. I don't think
being in the water is against human nature, it is part of it. That being said I have 3 water
babies!!! We all love water and when they were little they WANTED to be in the water and I
was worried because I wasn't sure I could formally "teach" them to swim. I shouldn't have
worried. They don't swim in a formal manner even now but they do understand how float,
dog paddle, swim underwater, and tread water. Not because I taught them, they figured it
out. They have recently asked to take swimming lessons because they are interested in
going faster in the water...lol
When you talk about it as a "drowning protection" it seems mis-stated. I watched the
videos and the instructors don't seem to be doing anything to make the children afraid of
the water or fear being in the water. I can understand if you have a swimming pool in
your yard wanting to be sure your child is safe. When you have multiple little ones it
seems almost impossible to watch each child 100% of the time. If they are coming over to
play and show the child how to float in the water and the child is ok with that is that
against unschooling? If the child isn't interested and doesn't even like to be in a bathtub
with water then you would be forcing. Heck, I have seen fully clothed toddlers get into the
toilet, so I don't think being clothed or unclothed in a swimming pool is going to matter.
I think my kids would have begged me to have someone come and show them more if we
had a pool and opportunity. They have learned watching others in the water, watching
their parent swim and not having fear forced upon them (ie: "Don't jump in the deep end
you might drown", or anything that might make them afraid). I had a sister drown at a
swimming pool (she was 6 and a half years old)...if she had known something about
floating maybe it wouldn't have happened? Either way, she obviously wanted to be in the
water but just didn't know what to do once she was there.
If we as a family wanted a pool in our back yard I would want to at least show those
children interested how to float....but if the classes are just instilling more fear (which
from the video I didn't really get that) instead of truly helping then no they are not a good
idea.
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: jenniferbreseman <jen@...>
I've been trying giving the 6 year old a generous allowance,
but when he spends that he wants me to buy whatever it is he wants for
him.
-=-=-=-=-
What do you consider "generous?"
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: jenniferbreseman <jen@...>
I've been trying giving the 6 year old a generous allowance,
but when he spends that he wants me to buy whatever it is he wants for
him.
-=-=-=-=-
What do you consider "generous?"
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenniferbreseman
He gets $10/week. I figure that way he can either buy a smallish toy
every week if that's what he wants, or save for a few weeks for
something more substantial. I'm not strict about it. If we're
somewhere with a gift shop, or find something too good to pass up, I
haven't been making him pay me back for it. I don't require him to
save a portion of it, or give it to charity or any of the other
things I've heard of parents doing. I guess the economy has me
worried and I'm looking more closely at our spending and wondering if
we all need to cut back. Jennifer
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
every week if that's what he wants, or save for a few weeks for
something more substantial. I'm not strict about it. If we're
somewhere with a gift shop, or find something too good to pass up, I
haven't been making him pay me back for it. I don't require him to
save a portion of it, or give it to charity or any of the other
things I've heard of parents doing. I guess the economy has me
worried and I'm looking more closely at our spending and wondering if
we all need to cut back. Jennifer
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy
<kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>for
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jenniferbreseman <jen@...>
>
>
>
> I've been trying giving the 6 year old a generous allowance,
>
> but when he spends that he wants me to buy whatever it is he wants
> him.Â
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> What do you consider "generous?"
>
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Amanda Pearl
This is long..
My daughter (22 months) just completed formal swim lessons. We are in Miami,
and live on the water, with a pool in our condo. She has been swimming,
playing and joyfully going under water with her parents and grandparents
since she was 2 months old. I had taught her to swim using a great book,
Teach
<http://www.abebooks.com/products/isbn/9781568331829/Timmerman-Claire/How-to
-Teach-Your-Baby-to-Swim/> Your Baby to Swim. However, Maya was never
comfortable floating, and not able to get her head above water on her own.
At 17 months she fell 5 feet off our dock and into the bay, with me standing
about 2 feet from her. Because she was so comfortable in the water, she new
how to hold her breath, and when I jumped in to retrieve her she came up
smiling, without having taken in any water. None the less, it was in the
back of my head that she would still drowned if she fell in without someone
at an arms reach..a babysitter that spaces out.an adult that slips and falls
on the pool deck.ect.(I probably have an overactive imagination). In any
case, about 2 months ago I had the opportunity to give Maya private swimming
lessons at no cost, as an acquaintance was finishing her swim teacher
training and interested in working with a child Maya's age. The classes were
10 minutes, each week day..4 to 6 weeks. This was pretty big commitment for
us, as we like to be pretty unscheduled. Maya was thrilled to jump in with
the instructor the first day..for about 2 minutes, then decided she was
nervous and needed me. She started to cry, I demanded that the lesson be put
on hold, nursed and reassured her, and let her begin again..however she
continued to cry for the anguishing remaining 8 minutes of the lesson. I was
not allowed to join in the pool. She still eagerly went with her father or
me to the pool in our building each evening, but cried upon seeing the
lesson pool.it was horrible, but I felt important. Also, I tried to redirect
or join in the pool and was told that "they don't operate that way, and
while they respected my on land parenting, I had to respect their in water
lesson style.." And then they gave me some BS behaviorist rational about
children needing forced independence..On Friday's I could join Maya, and the
difference was huge.just by my being in the water with her, even if I did
not interact with her during the lesson. (In the last weeks, I was allowed
in the pool daily, but not to really interact with her, and she was always
smiling)
These were 6 anguishing weeks of lessons, but I felt (like car seats and
sticking tweezers in light sockets) a non-negotiable for our family.even
though with everything else (food, bedtimes, ect..) we are totally
unschooling. In the end, I am really happy we did it, she still loves the
water..just not those people, that pool, or the specific swim diaper she had
to use for the class (they made us use disposable because it was "cleaner"
but one will last for at least several weeks dried nightly..just in case any
one is in a similar diaper situation). I am totally confident now that if
she fell in, she would be ok for extended periods, and could get herself to
safety. SO...in conclusion, if you are practicing RU in all aspects of
life..just have fun with your child in the pool and try to teach them the
basics..the book I recommended is great, and younger is better to start. If
you do want to do swim lessons, TRY to find a place that will let you join
your child in the pool, as I think it makes them MUCH more comfortable..good
luck!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My daughter (22 months) just completed formal swim lessons. We are in Miami,
and live on the water, with a pool in our condo. She has been swimming,
playing and joyfully going under water with her parents and grandparents
since she was 2 months old. I had taught her to swim using a great book,
Teach
<http://www.abebooks.com/products/isbn/9781568331829/Timmerman-Claire/How-to
-Teach-Your-Baby-to-Swim/> Your Baby to Swim. However, Maya was never
comfortable floating, and not able to get her head above water on her own.
At 17 months she fell 5 feet off our dock and into the bay, with me standing
about 2 feet from her. Because she was so comfortable in the water, she new
how to hold her breath, and when I jumped in to retrieve her she came up
smiling, without having taken in any water. None the less, it was in the
back of my head that she would still drowned if she fell in without someone
at an arms reach..a babysitter that spaces out.an adult that slips and falls
on the pool deck.ect.(I probably have an overactive imagination). In any
case, about 2 months ago I had the opportunity to give Maya private swimming
lessons at no cost, as an acquaintance was finishing her swim teacher
training and interested in working with a child Maya's age. The classes were
10 minutes, each week day..4 to 6 weeks. This was pretty big commitment for
us, as we like to be pretty unscheduled. Maya was thrilled to jump in with
the instructor the first day..for about 2 minutes, then decided she was
nervous and needed me. She started to cry, I demanded that the lesson be put
on hold, nursed and reassured her, and let her begin again..however she
continued to cry for the anguishing remaining 8 minutes of the lesson. I was
not allowed to join in the pool. She still eagerly went with her father or
me to the pool in our building each evening, but cried upon seeing the
lesson pool.it was horrible, but I felt important. Also, I tried to redirect
or join in the pool and was told that "they don't operate that way, and
while they respected my on land parenting, I had to respect their in water
lesson style.." And then they gave me some BS behaviorist rational about
children needing forced independence..On Friday's I could join Maya, and the
difference was huge.just by my being in the water with her, even if I did
not interact with her during the lesson. (In the last weeks, I was allowed
in the pool daily, but not to really interact with her, and she was always
smiling)
These were 6 anguishing weeks of lessons, but I felt (like car seats and
sticking tweezers in light sockets) a non-negotiable for our family.even
though with everything else (food, bedtimes, ect..) we are totally
unschooling. In the end, I am really happy we did it, she still loves the
water..just not those people, that pool, or the specific swim diaper she had
to use for the class (they made us use disposable because it was "cleaner"
but one will last for at least several weeks dried nightly..just in case any
one is in a similar diaper situation). I am totally confident now that if
she fell in, she would be ok for extended periods, and could get herself to
safety. SO...in conclusion, if you are practicing RU in all aspects of
life..just have fun with your child in the pool and try to teach them the
basics..the book I recommended is great, and younger is better to start. If
you do want to do swim lessons, TRY to find a place that will let you join
your child in the pool, as I think it makes them MUCH more comfortable..good
luck!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Michele James-Parham"
<michele@...> wrote:
---Mer
<michele@...> wrote:
>Go for it!
> Meredith, is it possible for me to use the quoted text below in a blog
> post?
---Mer
[email protected]
I did swimming classes with both my girls from the time they were about 9 months old. I live in Ca, and in the program I did you were REQUIRED to be in the water with your child until they were 3 years of age. It was a wonderful program and both my girls learned to swim quite well before the age of three, even diving off the diving board at 2 and a half and swimming unassisted to the side of the pool. I remember those swimming lessons as some of the best times of my life. They were both going underwater and swimming six or so feet unassisted between the instructor and me at very young ages.....13 and 14 months, and diving down for rings and batons and things. I can't imagine leaving a child alone with a relative stranger in a swimming lesson at 22 months old. Sounds bizarre to me.
--
Kathryn
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Amanda Pearl" <amanda@...>
--
Kathryn
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Amanda Pearl" <amanda@...>
> This is long..[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> My daughter (22 months) just completed formal swim lessons. We are in Miami,
> and live on the water, with a pool in our condo. She has been swimming,
> playing and joyfully going under water with her parents and grandparents
> since she was 2 months old. I had taught her to swim using a great book,
> Teach
> <http://www.abebooks.com/products/isbn/9781568331829/Timmerman-Claire/How-to
> -Teach-Your-Baby-to-Swim/> Your Baby to Swim. However, Maya was never
> comfortable floating, and not able to get her head above water on her own.
> At 17 months she fell 5 feet off our dock and into the bay, with me standing
> about 2 feet from her. Because she was so comfortable in the water, she new
> how to hold her breath, and when I jumped in to retrieve her she came up
> smiling, without having taken in any water. None the less, it was in the
> back of my head that she would still drowned if she fell in without someone
> at an arms reach..a babysitter that spaces out.an adult that slips and falls
> on the pool deck.ect.(I probably have an overactive imagination). In any
> case, about 2 months ago I had the opportunity to give Maya private swimming
> lessons at no cost, as an acquaintance was finishing her swim teacher
> training and interested in working with a child Maya's age. The classes were
> 10 minutes, each week day..4 to 6 weeks. This was pretty big commitment for
> us, as we like to be pretty unscheduled. Maya was thrilled to jump in with
> the instructor the first day..for about 2 minutes, then decided she was
> nervous and needed me. She started to cry, I demanded that the lesson be put
> on hold, nursed and reassured her, and let her begin again..however she
> continued to cry for the anguishing remaining 8 minutes of the lesson. I was
> not allowed to join in the pool. She still eagerly went with her father or
> me to the pool in our building each evening, but cried upon seeing the
> lesson pool.it was horrible, but I felt important. Also, I tried to redirect
> or join in the pool and was told that "they don't operate that way, and
> while they respected my on land parenting, I had to respect their in water
> lesson style.." And then they gave me some BS behaviorist rational about
> children needing forced independence..On Friday's I could join Maya, and the
> difference was huge.just by my being in the water with her, even if I did
> not interact with her during the lesson. (In the last weeks, I was allowed
> in the pool daily, but not to really interact with her, and she was always
> smiling)
>
> These were 6 anguishing weeks of lessons, but I felt (like car seats and
> sticking tweezers in light sockets) a non-negotiable for our family.even
> though with everything else (food, bedtimes, ect..) we are totally
> unschooling. In the end, I am really happy we did it, she still loves the
> water..just not those people, that pool, or the specific swim diaper she had
> to use for the class (they made us use disposable because it was "cleaner"
> but one will last for at least several weeks dried nightly..just in case any
> one is in a similar diaper situation). I am totally confident now that if
> she fell in, she would be ok for extended periods, and could get herself to
> safety. SO...in conclusion, if you are practicing RU in all aspects of
> life..just have fun with your child in the pool and try to teach them the
> basics..the book I recommended is great, and younger is better to start. If
> you do want to do swim lessons, TRY to find a place that will let you join
> your child in the pool, as I think it makes them MUCH more comfortable..good
> luck!
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Holli J
> Thank you to all who responded to my post on swim instruction. I appreciate[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> all your responses, stories and insight.
>
> I asked my 4 y/o if he would be interested in watching the swim video with me
> and he was excited to do so. His response to the video was ³Mom, I can
> already do what those kids are doing...wanna watch me?!². We spent a lot of
> time in the pool this past weekend and sure enough he showed me what the kids
> in the video were doing :) Needless to say, I am really comfortable with
> where my children are at in regards to their pool skills¹, level of comfort
> in water and how they are not afraid of the water (yet, extremely respectful
> of water) and can have hours of fun! I am going to continue to follow their
> lead, keep a very close eye on them and know that if they desire more swim
> instruction that I would be able to find a class that offered gentle
> instruction.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Holli (Quinn 4, Paige 2 in 3 days!!)
>