looking for feedback
Sharon
Hello,
I have been a member for several months and gotten a lot out of
reading posted questions and feedback. I often have lots of questions,
but I will start with two.
1) Has anyone read the book, "Reviving Ophelia?" A friend recently
lent it to me and said it was good. I thought I would read it because
my oldest is a 9 y/o girl. I barely started reading it and found it to
be a bit depressing about adolescent girls developing self destructive
behaviors. I am just curious if anyone else has any feedback about it.
I am trying to decide whether there is good information in it and to
continue reading it, or not.
2) The other night my kids (9 y/o girl, 6 y/o boy) wanted to watch TV
in the evening. It was 8pm and I thought primetime was pretty kid
friendly, most nights seem to be. Anyway, there wasn't much on so they
chose "Ugly Betty." We have never seen it before. During the half hour
that we watched it I was uncomfortable with some of the content. There
was a seen with a young couple on the couch half naked as if they just
had sex. Then his cell phone rings and he looks at it and says, "It's
my wife." Then he decides not to answer it.
Another frequent seen was of a magazine office called "Player" which
had a lot of women walking around the office that were barely clothed.
The part that bothered me the most was when a young woman wearing very
revealing clothes (short shorts, and skimpy shirt) walked into a room
the men would cheer. When ugly Betty walked into a room the men would
boo. I finally said I thought it was a show for adults and I asked if
we could turn it off. My kids reluctantly agreed and we went off and
played together. I later told my dtr that I didn't like the way the
show made women seem like sex objects and that it gave the impression
that you have to look a certain way in order for people to like you.
Does anyone have any feed back about the way I handled this. Should I
let my kids watch shows like this? How do other people handle
situations like this?
Sharon
I have been a member for several months and gotten a lot out of
reading posted questions and feedback. I often have lots of questions,
but I will start with two.
1) Has anyone read the book, "Reviving Ophelia?" A friend recently
lent it to me and said it was good. I thought I would read it because
my oldest is a 9 y/o girl. I barely started reading it and found it to
be a bit depressing about adolescent girls developing self destructive
behaviors. I am just curious if anyone else has any feedback about it.
I am trying to decide whether there is good information in it and to
continue reading it, or not.
2) The other night my kids (9 y/o girl, 6 y/o boy) wanted to watch TV
in the evening. It was 8pm and I thought primetime was pretty kid
friendly, most nights seem to be. Anyway, there wasn't much on so they
chose "Ugly Betty." We have never seen it before. During the half hour
that we watched it I was uncomfortable with some of the content. There
was a seen with a young couple on the couch half naked as if they just
had sex. Then his cell phone rings and he looks at it and says, "It's
my wife." Then he decides not to answer it.
Another frequent seen was of a magazine office called "Player" which
had a lot of women walking around the office that were barely clothed.
The part that bothered me the most was when a young woman wearing very
revealing clothes (short shorts, and skimpy shirt) walked into a room
the men would cheer. When ugly Betty walked into a room the men would
boo. I finally said I thought it was a show for adults and I asked if
we could turn it off. My kids reluctantly agreed and we went off and
played together. I later told my dtr that I didn't like the way the
show made women seem like sex objects and that it gave the impression
that you have to look a certain way in order for people to like you.
Does anyone have any feed back about the way I handled this. Should I
let my kids watch shows like this? How do other people handle
situations like this?
Sharon
Faith Void
>I read the book. I read it for myself though. I felt like it gave me a
>
> 1) Has anyone read the book, "Reviving Ophelia?" A friend recently
> lent it to me and said it was good. I thought I would read it because
> my oldest is a 9 y/o girl. I barely started reading it and found it to
> be a bit depressing about adolescent girls developing self destructive
> behaviors. I am just curious if anyone else has any feedback about it.
> I am trying to decide whether there is good information in it and to
> continue reading it, or not.
>
better understanding of what *I* went through as an adolescent. I have an 11
1/2dd who has never exhibited any self-destructive behavior. She is still
very much herself. She has retained all her sparkle and most of her
authenticity. i say most only because she is trying on different "hats"
right now and feeling out the teenage social circles and exploring their
games. She has her head on straight and wouldn't let anyone talk her onto
something she doesn't wanna do (even me). I don't think the adolescent
years *need* to be as they are described by those girls. It is only common
experience in the mainstream.
>I would have (and I do) say things like that to my kids all the time at that
> 2) I later told my dtr that I didn't like the way the
> show made women seem like sex objects and that it gave the impression
> that you have to look a certain way in order for people to like you.
> Does anyone have any feed back about the way I handled this. Should I
> let my kids watch shows like this? How do other people handle
> situations like this?
>
moment. We might even pause the show to discuss things. My kids will usually
say things like that while watching a show. Sometimes if no one is watching
with them we will talk about it later.
fyi I have a 11dd 5 ds and a 1dd. All of them can watch whatever they want,
whenever. However that doesn't mean that they watch in a vacuum. I will
sometimes watch with them or just be around while they are watching.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
> Has anyone read the book, "Reviving Ophelia?"I think it is a wonderful book and well worth reading. You can think
deeply about the causes of the problems she talks about and how to
avoid creating those problems in your own family.
Follow up with her second book, "The Shelter of Each Other." It is an
antidote to the first. Includes a homeschooling family as an example.
-pam
sharirosenman
Ugly Betty is a spoof for adults on just about everything. It
happens to be well written and acted, but a viewer has to have a
certain level of sophistication to appreciate the humor and the
social commentary. It's definitely not appropriate for teaching
children good values. But then again, almost no tv is. In our home,
we preview shows before we show them to our children and typically
only let them watch things like The Brady Bunch and Little House on
the Prairie. My kids used to come home from school saying that they
are culturally deprived because all the other children at school
watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it. So
we pulled them from that school and now they spend their time reading
and going to Shakespeare plays instead. Who is really culturally
deprived here? Shari
--- In [email protected], "Sharon" <1drflmthr@...>
wrote:
happens to be well written and acted, but a viewer has to have a
certain level of sophistication to appreciate the humor and the
social commentary. It's definitely not appropriate for teaching
children good values. But then again, almost no tv is. In our home,
we preview shows before we show them to our children and typically
only let them watch things like The Brady Bunch and Little House on
the Prairie. My kids used to come home from school saying that they
are culturally deprived because all the other children at school
watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it. So
we pulled them from that school and now they spend their time reading
and going to Shakespeare plays instead. Who is really culturally
deprived here? Shari
--- In [email protected], "Sharon" <1drflmthr@...>
wrote:
>questions,
> Hello,
> I have been a member for several months and gotten a lot out of
> reading posted questions and feedback. I often have lots of
> but I will start with two.because
> 1) Has anyone read the book, "Reviving Ophelia?" A friend recently
> lent it to me and said it was good. I thought I would read it
> my oldest is a 9 y/o girl. I barely started reading it and found itto
> be a bit depressing about adolescent girls developing selfdestructive
> behaviors. I am just curious if anyone else has any feedback aboutit.
> I am trying to decide whether there is good information in it and toTV
> continue reading it, or not.
> 2) The other night my kids (9 y/o girl, 6 y/o boy) wanted to watch
> in the evening. It was 8pm and I thought primetime was pretty kidthey
> friendly, most nights seem to be. Anyway, there wasn't much on so
> chose "Ugly Betty." We have never seen it before. During the halfhour
> that we watched it I was uncomfortable with some of the content.There
> was a seen with a young couple on the couch half naked as if theyjust
> had sex. Then his cell phone rings and he looks at it andsays, "It's
> my wife." Then he decides not to answer it.clothed.
> Another frequent seen was of a magazine office called "Player" which
> had a lot of women walking around the office that were barely
> The part that bothered me the most was when a young woman wearingvery
> revealing clothes (short shorts, and skimpy shirt) walked into aroom
> the men would cheer. When ugly Betty walked into a room the menwould
> boo. I finally said I thought it was a show for adults and I askedif
> we could turn it off. My kids reluctantly agreed and we went off andimpression
> played together. I later told my dtr that I didn't like the way the
> show made women seem like sex objects and that it gave the
> that you have to look a certain way in order for people to like you.I
> Does anyone have any feed back about the way I handled this. Should
> let my kids watch shows like this? How do other people handle
> situations like this?
> Sharon
>
Vickisue Gray
Shakespeare plays were also social commentary....
So you are saying that 'old' social commentary is ok? Just not modern?
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
So you are saying that 'old' social commentary is ok? Just not modern?
Vicki
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
swissarmy_wife
--- In [email protected], "sharirosenman"
<sharirosenman@...> wrote:
if all the kids at school were participating in today's culture (TV,
movies etc.) and your children weren't. Well, then technically they
were culturally deprived.
So
now you only let them watch The Brady bunch and Little House on the
Prairie?
Who is really culturally
Reading and Shakespeare does not make one "cultured" in the way you
mean it. It makes them interested in reading and Shakespeare. I'm
not into Shakespeare. Does that make me culturally deprived?
<sharirosenman@...> wrote:
> typicallyOh yuck. Seriously?
> only let them watch things like The Brady Bunch and Little House on
> the Prairie.
> My kids used to come home from school saying that theyCulture is that of a particular society during a time and place. So,
> are culturally deprived because all the other children at school
> watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it.
if all the kids at school were participating in today's culture (TV,
movies etc.) and your children weren't. Well, then technically they
were culturally deprived.
So
> we pulled them from that schoolYou pulled them from school because they felt culturally deprived and
now you only let them watch The Brady bunch and Little House on the
Prairie?
>and now they spend their time readingDo they get a choice?
> and going to Shakespeare plays instead.
Who is really culturally
> deprived here?I think you should be asking yourself that very same question.
Reading and Shakespeare does not make one "cultured" in the way you
mean it. It makes them interested in reading and Shakespeare. I'm
not into Shakespeare. Does that make me culturally deprived?
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 29, 2008, at 9:41 AM, Sharon wrote:
They aren't seeing that scene and saying "Oh, casual sex! Must be
okay if mom's showing it to me." "Oh, cheating on his wife. People
laughed so it must not be serious." Unless they're very precocious in
interpersonal relationships, they're probably just waiting for a joke
they get. So I doubt they picked up what you did from it and they
aren't scarred for life.
Second, it doesn't have much kid humor in it so it's not something
that kids would normally choose to watch. That's not a criticism,
just that parents tend to worry that there's something magnetic about
adult programs that kids will naturally drift to if they're given
free rein. It just isn't true. They no more drift to adult programs
than they do the adult section of the bookstore or library.
trying to undo any positive message about values you don't agree with
that the program might have placed in her head. And that may have
called more attention to it than she had paid to it originally.
You're tension may have actually intrigued her.
I wouldn't worry about it. I think what will help is if you pass on
your comments as you might to a friend, rather than as a lessons you
want to get into them to negate something they've seen. It's more
honest to say "I'm not really enjoying the humor in this. I think I'd
like to play a game. Anyone want to join me?" Make it about you
rather than about them. Be okay if they'd rather watch. Ask what
they're finding funny. I doubt it's the same things adults are
finding funny!
I think that's the central question parents often fail to ask! Rather
than seeing the world divided into what you want them to see and what
you don't want them to see, divide the world into what interests them
and what doesn't (yet) interest them. They want to avoid the things
that don't yet interest them! I'm sure Ugly Betty isn't high on their
list of what interest them.
If you're often faced with not having something to watch, you might
try Netflix. (I think there lowest rate is $5 a month.) Or a DVR so
you can record their favorite shows and time shift them to the times
you're available to watch. (VCR tapes work too, of course! I had
loads of episodes taped from TV when Kat was young.) Or keeping a
selection from the library. Shop library sales and movie rental place
sales for movies and shows they would like to see. (Netflix often
puts their excess inventory up on eBay very cheap.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> ThereFirst, kids don't see the adult interaction the same way adults do.
> was a seen with a young couple on the couch half naked as if they just
> had sex. Then his cell phone rings and he looks at it and says, "It's
> my wife." Then he decides not to answer it.
They aren't seeing that scene and saying "Oh, casual sex! Must be
okay if mom's showing it to me." "Oh, cheating on his wife. People
laughed so it must not be serious." Unless they're very precocious in
interpersonal relationships, they're probably just waiting for a joke
they get. So I doubt they picked up what you did from it and they
aren't scarred for life.
Second, it doesn't have much kid humor in it so it's not something
that kids would normally choose to watch. That's not a criticism,
just that parents tend to worry that there's something magnetic about
adult programs that kids will naturally drift to if they're given
free rein. It just isn't true. They no more drift to adult programs
than they do the adult section of the bookstore or library.
> I later told my dtr that I didn't like the way theMy guess is that this was said with some tension because you were
> show made women seem like sex objects and that it gave the impression
> that you have to look a certain way in order for people to like you.
trying to undo any positive message about values you don't agree with
that the program might have placed in her head. And that may have
called more attention to it than she had paid to it originally.
You're tension may have actually intrigued her.
I wouldn't worry about it. I think what will help is if you pass on
your comments as you might to a friend, rather than as a lessons you
want to get into them to negate something they've seen. It's more
honest to say "I'm not really enjoying the humor in this. I think I'd
like to play a game. Anyone want to join me?" Make it about you
rather than about them. Be okay if they'd rather watch. Ask what
they're finding funny. I doubt it's the same things adults are
finding funny!
> Should IDo they want to?
> let my kids watch shows like this?
I think that's the central question parents often fail to ask! Rather
than seeing the world divided into what you want them to see and what
you don't want them to see, divide the world into what interests them
and what doesn't (yet) interest them. They want to avoid the things
that don't yet interest them! I'm sure Ugly Betty isn't high on their
list of what interest them.
If you're often faced with not having something to watch, you might
try Netflix. (I think there lowest rate is $5 a month.) Or a DVR so
you can record their favorite shows and time shift them to the times
you're available to watch. (VCR tapes work too, of course! I had
loads of episodes taped from TV when Kat was young.) Or keeping a
selection from the library. Shop library sales and movie rental place
sales for movies and shows they would like to see. (Netflix often
puts their excess inventory up on eBay very cheap.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 29, 2008, at 1:26 PM, sharirosenman wrote:
as things to teach children good values.
If we'd like to pass on our values, we should live them and use them
in our daily lives. I think a hard part to grasp is that if we value
certain adult relationships (like no casual sex) that's not any easy
one for kids to see from us, so how will we pass it on? So how do we
express something like that?
Through discussions of relationships on TV. *Not* the "I think that
was wrong" kind of value judgement, but closer to "I don't think her
choice made her very happy. I think she would have been happier if
she'd done x. What about you? What do you think she should have
done." And really listen to their ideas. Don't worry if they don't
match yours.
In these cases it's often easier to step back from the protecting mom
role and step into a friend role. Don't project their right now ideas
into the future and worry that you need to nip them in the bud! Trust
that they're thinking creatures and *if* your values are good ones,
the kids will come to that conclusion too.
That way they absorb the right way to think.
But people aren't so simple. If we could learn the right way to be
just by being told, humanity wouldn't be having so many problems and
schools would work like a charm!
We learn by seeing what's good in the bad and what's bad in the good
and weighing and judging what we'd like for ourselves.
My daughter and I have had much richer discussions about Simpsons and
South Park and her current obsession -- 80's hair metal. Since she
doesn't have anything to rebel against --- like a parent who controls
what she can and can't see -- she can objectively observe the
excessive behavior and shake her head and see the humor in it. But
also see that it's not for her.
yes, they *were* culturally deprived. Still are, apparently unless
you've transported them back to the 70s.
Shakespeare was meant to appeal to the highest and lowest of the
population. It has some incredibly low brow humor, cruder than kids
will get on a lot of TV! But that's not going to give them something
to talk about with their peers unless their peers are living in the
1400s.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It's definitely not appropriate for teachingAnd unschooling parents shouldn't be seeing TV (or books or movies)
> children good values. But then again, almost no tv is.
as things to teach children good values.
If we'd like to pass on our values, we should live them and use them
in our daily lives. I think a hard part to grasp is that if we value
certain adult relationships (like no casual sex) that's not any easy
one for kids to see from us, so how will we pass it on? So how do we
express something like that?
Through discussions of relationships on TV. *Not* the "I think that
was wrong" kind of value judgement, but closer to "I don't think her
choice made her very happy. I think she would have been happier if
she'd done x. What about you? What do you think she should have
done." And really listen to their ideas. Don't worry if they don't
match yours.
In these cases it's often easier to step back from the protecting mom
role and step into a friend role. Don't project their right now ideas
into the future and worry that you need to nip them in the bud! Trust
that they're thinking creatures and *if* your values are good ones,
the kids will come to that conclusion too.
> typicallyI think it makes sense to show kids only the values that we value.
> only let them watch things like The Brady Bunch and Little House on
> the Prairie.
That way they absorb the right way to think.
But people aren't so simple. If we could learn the right way to be
just by being told, humanity wouldn't be having so many problems and
schools would work like a charm!
We learn by seeing what's good in the bad and what's bad in the good
and weighing and judging what we'd like for ourselves.
My daughter and I have had much richer discussions about Simpsons and
South Park and her current obsession -- 80's hair metal. Since she
doesn't have anything to rebel against --- like a parent who controls
what she can and can't see -- she can objectively observe the
excessive behavior and shake her head and see the humor in it. But
also see that it's not for her.
> My kids used to come home from school saying that theyIf they couldn't watch the TV the other kids were watching, then,
> are culturally deprived because all the other children at school
> watched lots of tv
yes, they *were* culturally deprived. Still are, apparently unless
you've transported them back to the 70s.
Shakespeare was meant to appeal to the highest and lowest of the
population. It has some incredibly low brow humor, cruder than kids
will get on a lot of TV! But that's not going to give them something
to talk about with their peers unless their peers are living in the
1400s.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sep 29, 2008, at 10:26 AM, sharirosenman wrote:
the Old Testament! No murder or mayhem in those, no, not at ALL. <G>
-pam
> It's definitely not appropriate for teachingThis is a joke, right? Shakespeare? Next you'll be making them read
> children good values. But then again, almost no tv is. In our home,
> we preview shows before we show them to our children and typically
> only let them watch things like The Brady Bunch and Little House on
> the Prairie. My kids used to come home from school saying that they
> are culturally deprived because all the other children at school
> watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it. So
> we pulled them from that school and now they spend their time reading
> and going to Shakespeare plays instead. Who is really culturally
> deprived here?
the Old Testament! No murder or mayhem in those, no, not at ALL. <G>
-pam
Ren Allen
~~ It's definitely not appropriate for teaching children good values.
But then again, almost no tv is.~~
Children don't learn values from tv or books. They have an internal
guide and they are influenced by their environment. But even their
parents values won't automatically be passed on to them. Hopefully
not. Because values that aren't digested, reflected, analyzed and
viewed from many angles aren't true values at all, they're just
mimicry. I want my kids to figure out their own values system, so that
it truly belongs to them.
~~In our home,we preview shows before we show them to our children and
typically only let them watch things like The Brady Bunch and Little
House on the Prairie. ~~
That's control. It isn't very conducive to natural learning or trust,
which is the crux of unschooling in my opinion.
My parents decided that tv was a bad thing in general, so we didn't
have one.
They thought that eating meat was good and healthy for growing children.
They thought that our church was the one "right" and "true" Christian
church.
They believed that women should not wear much (or any) makeup and be
"modest" by wearing dresses all the time.
My Mom was a teacher and later a librarian that thought school was
important for children.
All of their children own more than one television.
Two of their children are vegetarians.
None of their children are Christians and some of us are agnostic.
All the girls wear makeup and I am a professional makeup artist. We
all wear funky and/or trendy clothing and rarely in the form of a
dress. None of us are particularly modest.;)
One of my sisters and myself are radical unschoolers and one other
sister sees right through the school system's issues, and believes her
child could learn just fine without a teacher.
So how did their values play out in our lives? A lot of them didn't.
Now their work ethic and some of those examples stayed with us. The
stuff they didn't make a big deal over, or try to control us about. We
seemed to absorb some of that stuff. Family connections and rituals.
Work habits, etc... That stayed with us. But NONE of the things they
were controlling about ended up being something we valued. None of it.
So you're taking a big risk by choosing what SHOULD be valuable to
your children. They will decide for themselves one day and all control
does is damage relationships.
~~My kids used to come home from school saying that they are
culturally deprived because all the other children at school
watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it.~~
It makes for great discussions. I remember feeling SO stupid around my
friends because they were all "culturally literate" about current pop
culture and I was not! I hated it. It took me years of not being able
to ignore a tv if it was on, to get over my obsession because it was
controlled for so much of my life.
~~So we pulled them from that school and now they spend their time
reading and going to Shakespeare plays instead. Who is really
culturally deprived here?~~
Depends. If they want/love Shakespeare and books then they are being
filled up with what they love. If they want/love some of the tv shows
you are limiting, then they are culturally deprived.
Deprivation and abundance are all about our own perception. YOu can't
change what they want. You can only hinder them or enable them.
Ren
But then again, almost no tv is.~~
Children don't learn values from tv or books. They have an internal
guide and they are influenced by their environment. But even their
parents values won't automatically be passed on to them. Hopefully
not. Because values that aren't digested, reflected, analyzed and
viewed from many angles aren't true values at all, they're just
mimicry. I want my kids to figure out their own values system, so that
it truly belongs to them.
~~In our home,we preview shows before we show them to our children and
typically only let them watch things like The Brady Bunch and Little
House on the Prairie. ~~
That's control. It isn't very conducive to natural learning or trust,
which is the crux of unschooling in my opinion.
My parents decided that tv was a bad thing in general, so we didn't
have one.
They thought that eating meat was good and healthy for growing children.
They thought that our church was the one "right" and "true" Christian
church.
They believed that women should not wear much (or any) makeup and be
"modest" by wearing dresses all the time.
My Mom was a teacher and later a librarian that thought school was
important for children.
All of their children own more than one television.
Two of their children are vegetarians.
None of their children are Christians and some of us are agnostic.
All the girls wear makeup and I am a professional makeup artist. We
all wear funky and/or trendy clothing and rarely in the form of a
dress. None of us are particularly modest.;)
One of my sisters and myself are radical unschoolers and one other
sister sees right through the school system's issues, and believes her
child could learn just fine without a teacher.
So how did their values play out in our lives? A lot of them didn't.
Now their work ethic and some of those examples stayed with us. The
stuff they didn't make a big deal over, or try to control us about. We
seemed to absorb some of that stuff. Family connections and rituals.
Work habits, etc... That stayed with us. But NONE of the things they
were controlling about ended up being something we valued. None of it.
So you're taking a big risk by choosing what SHOULD be valuable to
your children. They will decide for themselves one day and all control
does is damage relationships.
~~My kids used to come home from school saying that they are
culturally deprived because all the other children at school
watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it.~~
It makes for great discussions. I remember feeling SO stupid around my
friends because they were all "culturally literate" about current pop
culture and I was not! I hated it. It took me years of not being able
to ignore a tv if it was on, to get over my obsession because it was
controlled for so much of my life.
~~So we pulled them from that school and now they spend their time
reading and going to Shakespeare plays instead. Who is really
culturally deprived here?~~
Depends. If they want/love Shakespeare and books then they are being
filled up with what they love. If they want/love some of the tv shows
you are limiting, then they are culturally deprived.
Deprivation and abundance are all about our own perception. YOu can't
change what they want. You can only hinder them or enable them.
Ren
Ren Allen
~~
I read the book. I read it for myself though. I felt like it gave me a
better understanding of what *I* went through as an adolescent. ~~
I did too.
I remember loving it at the time I read it. But not much of it applies
to my daughter at this moment. It gave me a better understanding of
some of the mixed messages I received as a young woman.
Ren
I read the book. I read it for myself though. I felt like it gave me a
better understanding of what *I* went through as an adolescent. ~~
I did too.
I remember loving it at the time I read it. But not much of it applies
to my daughter at this moment. It gave me a better understanding of
some of the mixed messages I received as a young woman.
Ren
k
>~~ It's definitely not appropriate for teaching children good values.Here's another thing about that. If the world is all messed... (if that's
>But then again, almost no tv is.~~
>>Children don't learn values from tv or books. They have an internal
>>guide and they are influenced by their environment. But even their
>> parents values won't automatically be passed on to them. Hopefully
>> not. Because values that aren't digested, reflected, analyzed and
>>viewed from many angles aren't true values at all, they're just
>> mimicry. I want my kids to figure out their own values system, so that
>> it truly belongs to them.
what we believe) and unless we believe that we are *100%* CORRECT in how we
live and think and feel (even in how we feel since that influences how we
think!) ... how is the world supposed to change for the better if our
children simply take our values, lock stock and barrel, for their own?
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sherri
I'm confused. I thought unschooling was following the child's led. My
child 9 is choosing to read the Princess Diaries.
I can't image her wanting her wanting to read Shakespear. She wants to
investigate where bananas come from and the things
you can do with them.
She is into listening to Rabbi Shumley and Avril Lavigne on the radio.
Sherri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
child 9 is choosing to read the Princess Diaries.
I can't image her wanting her wanting to read Shakespear. She wants to
investigate where bananas come from and the things
you can do with them.
She is into listening to Rabbi Shumley and Avril Lavigne on the radio.
Sherri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
The other night Linnaea (8) and I were curled up together on a chair in front of the television watching a show called Virgin Daughter's, I think. It's about the Purity movement based in Colorado Springs and how these daughters of these fathers are signing up to be virgins until they are married. We had the best conversations about sex and premarital sex and how many sexual partners I've had and why I think premarital sex is a good thing, certainly not a bad thing. Not that I was pressing her to have sex before marriage, but to talk about my feelings on sex and relationships and why it is a limited understanding of biology to argue that sex is about a lifetime commitment.
Television is a fantastic conversation starter. We watch a fair bit of Family Guy and American Dad and other shows that have controversal themes. And while I won't lecture about things, at least not for too long usually, we do talk about stuff. Lots of things. Sexism and racism and penis length and humor, a lot about humor. And it happens no matter what we watch. I offer my perspective and Simon and Linnaea and David each offer their own.
My dad once questioned me allowing Linnaea to watch the My Humps video by The Black Eyed Peas because it degraded women, he said. I pointed out a conversation we'd had about religions that gave men dominion over women the previous day to which Linnaea had replied those religions must not have women joining. Her life is such filled with so many more actual women that My Humps is only entertainment. I imagine that Ugly Betty is the same sort of thing in your home. And it gives you a fantastic opportunity to talk about relationships and irony and jokes.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
2) The other night my kids (9 y/o girl, 6 y/o boy) wanted to watch TV
in the evening. It was 8pm and I thought primetime was pretty kid
friendly, most nights seem to be. Anyway, there wasn't much on so they
chose "Ugly Betty." We have never seen it before. During the half hour
that we watched it I was uncomfortable with some of the content. There
was a seen with a young couple on the couch half naked as if they just
had sex. Then his cell phone rings and he looks at it and says, "It's
my wife." Then he decides not to answer it.
Another frequent seen was of a magazine office called "Player" which
had a lot of women walking around the office that were barely clothed.
The part that bothered me the most was when a young woman wearing very
revealing clothes (short shorts, and skimpy shirt) walked into a room
the men would cheer. When ugly Betty walked into a room the men would
boo. I finally said I thought it was a show for adults and I asked if
we could turn it off. My kids reluctantly agreed and we went off and
played together. I later told my dtr that I didn't like the way the
show made women seem like sex objects and that it gave the impression
that you have to look a certain way in order for people to like you.
Does anyone have any feed back about the way I handled this. Should I
let my kids watch shows like this? How do other people handle
situations like this?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Television is a fantastic conversation starter. We watch a fair bit of Family Guy and American Dad and other shows that have controversal themes. And while I won't lecture about things, at least not for too long usually, we do talk about stuff. Lots of things. Sexism and racism and penis length and humor, a lot about humor. And it happens no matter what we watch. I offer my perspective and Simon and Linnaea and David each offer their own.
My dad once questioned me allowing Linnaea to watch the My Humps video by The Black Eyed Peas because it degraded women, he said. I pointed out a conversation we'd had about religions that gave men dominion over women the previous day to which Linnaea had replied those religions must not have women joining. Her life is such filled with so many more actual women that My Humps is only entertainment. I imagine that Ugly Betty is the same sort of thing in your home. And it gives you a fantastic opportunity to talk about relationships and irony and jokes.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
2) The other night my kids (9 y/o girl, 6 y/o boy) wanted to watch TV
in the evening. It was 8pm and I thought primetime was pretty kid
friendly, most nights seem to be. Anyway, there wasn't much on so they
chose "Ugly Betty." We have never seen it before. During the half hour
that we watched it I was uncomfortable with some of the content. There
was a seen with a young couple on the couch half naked as if they just
had sex. Then his cell phone rings and he looks at it and says, "It's
my wife." Then he decides not to answer it.
Another frequent seen was of a magazine office called "Player" which
had a lot of women walking around the office that were barely clothed.
The part that bothered me the most was when a young woman wearing very
revealing clothes (short shorts, and skimpy shirt) walked into a room
the men would cheer. When ugly Betty walked into a room the men would
boo. I finally said I thought it was a show for adults and I asked if
we could turn it off. My kids reluctantly agreed and we went off and
played together. I later told my dtr that I didn't like the way the
show made women seem like sex objects and that it gave the impression
that you have to look a certain way in order for people to like you.
Does anyone have any feed back about the way I handled this. Should I
let my kids watch shows like this? How do other people handle
situations like this?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
Thank you for these great stories. I raised my kids like this, too, discussing topics as life presented them. My first born is now an adult and doing rather well in life. She makes great choices because she thinks about those choices. She's even won the respect of many adults in the professional world and is being sought after for employment with a few local cities. (She's just graduated from the Fire/EMT Academy.) I don't see how I could have raised a sweeter, kinder, and smarter young lady. I, also, don't think I did much more then try and let her live the life she desired. Life is to short and childhood even shorter to make absurd rules. Afterall, why have children in the first place if you don't plan on letting them live the best and most wonderful life you can?
Vicki
Racial Unschooler and wouldn't want it any other way.
----- Original Message ----
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:03:12 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] looking for feedback
The other night Linnaea (8) and I were curled up together on a chair in front of the television watching a show called Virgin Daughter's, I think. It's about the Purity movement based in Colorado Springs and how these daughters of these fathers are signing up to be virgins until they are married. We had the best conversations about sex and premarital sex and how many sexual partners I've had and why I think premarital sex is a good thing, certainly not a bad thing. Not that I was pressing her to have sex before marriage, but to talk about my feelings on sex and relationships and why it is a limited understanding of biology to argue that sex is about a lifetime commitment.
Television is a fantastic conversation starter. We watch a fair bit of Family Guy and American Dad and other shows that have controversal themes. And while I won't lecture about things, at least not for too long usually, we do talk about stuff. Lots of things. Sexism and racism and penis length and humor, a lot about humor. And it happens no matter what we watch. I offer my perspective and Simon and Linnaea and David each offer their own.
My dad once questioned me allowing Linnaea to watch the My Humps video by The Black Eyed Peas because it degraded women, he said. I pointed out a conversation we'd had about religions that gave men dominion over women the previous day to which Linnaea had replied those religions must not have women joining. Her life is such filled with so many more actual women that My Humps is only entertainment. I imagine that Ugly Betty is the same sort of thing in your home. And it gives you a fantastic opportunity to talk about relationships and irony and jokes.
Schuyler
www.waynforth. blogspot. com
2) The other night my kids (9 y/o girl, 6 y/o boy) wanted to watch TV
in the evening. It was 8pm and I thought primetime was pretty kid
friendly, most nights seem to be. Anyway, there wasn't much on so they
chose "Ugly Betty." We have never seen it before. During the half hour
that we watched it I was uncomfortable with some of the content. There
was a seen with a young couple on the couch half naked as if they just
had sex. Then his cell phone rings and he looks at it and says, "It's
my wife." Then he decides not to answer it.
Another frequent seen was of a magazine office called "Player" which
had a lot of women walking around the office that were barely clothed.
The part that bothered me the most was when a young woman wearing very
revealing clothes (short shorts, and skimpy shirt) walked into a room
the men would cheer. When ugly Betty walked into a room the men would
boo. I finally said I thought it was a show for adults and I asked if
we could turn it off. My kids reluctantly agreed and we went off and
played together. I later told my dtr that I didn't like the way the
show made women seem like sex objects and that it gave the impression
that you have to look a certain way in order for people to like you.
Does anyone have any feed back about the way I handled this. Should I
let my kids watch shows like this? How do other people handle
situations like this?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vicki
Racial Unschooler and wouldn't want it any other way.
----- Original Message ----
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:03:12 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] looking for feedback
The other night Linnaea (8) and I were curled up together on a chair in front of the television watching a show called Virgin Daughter's, I think. It's about the Purity movement based in Colorado Springs and how these daughters of these fathers are signing up to be virgins until they are married. We had the best conversations about sex and premarital sex and how many sexual partners I've had and why I think premarital sex is a good thing, certainly not a bad thing. Not that I was pressing her to have sex before marriage, but to talk about my feelings on sex and relationships and why it is a limited understanding of biology to argue that sex is about a lifetime commitment.
Television is a fantastic conversation starter. We watch a fair bit of Family Guy and American Dad and other shows that have controversal themes. And while I won't lecture about things, at least not for too long usually, we do talk about stuff. Lots of things. Sexism and racism and penis length and humor, a lot about humor. And it happens no matter what we watch. I offer my perspective and Simon and Linnaea and David each offer their own.
My dad once questioned me allowing Linnaea to watch the My Humps video by The Black Eyed Peas because it degraded women, he said. I pointed out a conversation we'd had about religions that gave men dominion over women the previous day to which Linnaea had replied those religions must not have women joining. Her life is such filled with so many more actual women that My Humps is only entertainment. I imagine that Ugly Betty is the same sort of thing in your home. And it gives you a fantastic opportunity to talk about relationships and irony and jokes.
Schuyler
www.waynforth. blogspot. com
2) The other night my kids (9 y/o girl, 6 y/o boy) wanted to watch TV
in the evening. It was 8pm and I thought primetime was pretty kid
friendly, most nights seem to be. Anyway, there wasn't much on so they
chose "Ugly Betty." We have never seen it before. During the half hour
that we watched it I was uncomfortable with some of the content. There
was a seen with a young couple on the couch half naked as if they just
had sex. Then his cell phone rings and he looks at it and says, "It's
my wife." Then he decides not to answer it.
Another frequent seen was of a magazine office called "Player" which
had a lot of women walking around the office that were barely clothed.
The part that bothered me the most was when a young woman wearing very
revealing clothes (short shorts, and skimpy shirt) walked into a room
the men would cheer. When ugly Betty walked into a room the men would
boo. I finally said I thought it was a show for adults and I asked if
we could turn it off. My kids reluctantly agreed and we went off and
played together. I later told my dtr that I didn't like the way the
show made women seem like sex objects and that it gave the impression
that you have to look a certain way in order for people to like you.
Does anyone have any feed back about the way I handled this. Should I
let my kids watch shows like this? How do other people handle
situations like this?
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Find a buddy
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Share pictures &
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.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...>
Vicki
Racial Unschooler and wouldn't want it any other way.
-=-=-=-
Having read Vicki's words for a while now, I'm VERY she meant RADICAL
Unschooler <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...>
Vicki
Racial Unschooler and wouldn't want it any other way.
-=-=-=-
Having read Vicki's words for a while now, I'm VERY she meant RADICAL
Unschooler <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
Vickisue Gray
LOL!!!
OOOOOPPPPPPS!!!! (Sometimes spell check doesn't help much)
<blush>
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:42:42 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] looking for feedback
-----Original Message-----
From: Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@ yahoo.com>
Vicki
Racial Unschooler and wouldn't want it any other way.
-=-=-=-
Having read Vicki's words for a while now, I'm VERY she meant RADICAL
Unschooler <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
OOOOOPPPPPPS!!!! (Sometimes spell check doesn't help much)
<blush>
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:42:42 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] looking for feedback
-----Original Message-----
From: Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@ yahoo.com>
Vicki
Racial Unschooler and wouldn't want it any other way.
-=-=-=-
Having read Vicki's words for a while now, I'm VERY she meant RADICAL
Unschooler <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
She has retained all her sparkle and most of her authenticity. i say most only because she is trying on different "hats" right now and feeling out the teenage social circles and exploring their games. She has her head on straight and wouldn't let anyone talk her onto something she doesn't wanna do (even me). I don't think the adolescent years *need* to be as they are described by those girls. It is only common experience in the mainstream.
*****
It sounds like trying on different hats is part of your daughter's authenticity at this point in her journey. She is being authentic to her own path, even tho it may look to you like she's playing games.
Sylvia
www.ourhapahome.blogspot.com
www.ourhapahome365.blogspot.com
www.mysquareone.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*****
It sounds like trying on different hats is part of your daughter's authenticity at this point in her journey. She is being authentic to her own path, even tho it may look to you like she's playing games.
Sylvia
www.ourhapahome.blogspot.com
www.ourhapahome365.blogspot.com
www.mysquareone.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
It's definitely not appropriate for teaching
children good values. But then again, almost no tv is. In our home,
we preview shows before we show them to our children and typically
only let them watch things like The Brady Bunch and Little House on
the Prairie. My kids used to come home from school saying that they
are culturally deprived because all the other children at school
watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it. So
we pulled them from that school and now they spend their time reading
and going to Shakespeare plays instead. Who is really culturally
deprived here?
---------------------
Your kids are really culturally deprived.
I watched The Brady Bunch and Little House on the Prarie and Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley and Gilligan's Island and Bewitched and All in the Family and lots and lots of other shows. Those were the shows of my time and a bit earlier. Gilligan's Island and The Brady Bunch and Bewitched were all on after school on some rotation where each was available for some period of time and then the next. I watched other shows, too. My parents were quite keen to not limit my media experience. They used to take me to R rated movies when I was young to broaden my horizons. I saw Everything You Wanted to Know about Sex but Were Afraid to Ask when I was too little to remember what it completely and would ocassionally ask what the movie was with a giant boob rolling around. Nobody could tell me. Although they were loathe to get cable when it came out and I had to fill that desire with the cable at the homes where I babysat.
Anyhow, I wasn't culturally deprived because I lived fully within my culture. Part of the culture of my childhood was television. It was knowing all about Luke and Laura on General Hospital and Chachi and Joanie and The Greatest American Hero and going from listening to Bill Cosby comedy albums and 500 children on gocarts going down the hill to Eddie Murphy and ice creams and Steve Martin singing about King Tut. And because of all of those things I was able to talk with my friends about ideas and approaches to humor and to have common references. I was also able to discover what I liked and to have a taste for my own culture. I could not like "Like a Virgin" and like "Rock n Roll High School". Because I was wealthy in cultural experiences I could pick and choose what I most enjoyed.
By limiting your children to culture that has a range from 500 to 25 years ago you are limiting their ability to communicate with other people and to judge for themselves variations between television shows. And other countries. That's so cool. I love watching the way that tension is built up and released in Japanese movies, it is done at a very different pace to U.S. or U.K. movies. That's true historically as well. Watching the old Parent Trap versus the remake. The concerns about being loved by both parents, the change in the culture of divorce. Wonderful things to talk about. Remakes are fascinating things.
My parents-in-law have insulated themselves against the cultures in which they lived. They were very specific in their cultural approach. They lived in Oman and in Pakistan and in Hong Kong and the Phillipines to name a few places and in all of those places they worked hard not to let the regional culture touch them. They wanted to remain as British as they possibly could. They had staff who were required to maintain things as would be normal for a British household, breakfast at 8, coffee at 11, lunch at 1, tea at 4, dinner at 7 with the required meat and two vegetables. David loved to hide out in the kitchen with his Amah and the cooks. The food was so much better there, where the cook was cooking the food he or she knew, rather than the recipes that David's mom required, and David loved listening to the language flowing around him. When they lived in Sri Lanka and he came back for Christmas break he got the cook to serve him a different fruit every
morning for breakfast. Something that his parents would never have done. They wanted a wall between themselves and the world they lived in. A wall that let them hold on to their sense of being British.
It's a similar wall that you are erecting between your children and the culture at large. Have you expanded out from the shows you allow? Having children who aren't versed in the Brady Bunch, Simon and Linnaea don't really appreciate The Brady Bunch movies. I imagine your children would be able to enjoy the heck out of the humorous look back. And it might get you thinking about living a life that is out of sync with the world around you.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
children good values. But then again, almost no tv is. In our home,
we preview shows before we show them to our children and typically
only let them watch things like The Brady Bunch and Little House on
the Prairie. My kids used to come home from school saying that they
are culturally deprived because all the other children at school
watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it. So
we pulled them from that school and now they spend their time reading
and going to Shakespeare plays instead. Who is really culturally
deprived here?
---------------------
Your kids are really culturally deprived.
I watched The Brady Bunch and Little House on the Prarie and Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley and Gilligan's Island and Bewitched and All in the Family and lots and lots of other shows. Those were the shows of my time and a bit earlier. Gilligan's Island and The Brady Bunch and Bewitched were all on after school on some rotation where each was available for some period of time and then the next. I watched other shows, too. My parents were quite keen to not limit my media experience. They used to take me to R rated movies when I was young to broaden my horizons. I saw Everything You Wanted to Know about Sex but Were Afraid to Ask when I was too little to remember what it completely and would ocassionally ask what the movie was with a giant boob rolling around. Nobody could tell me. Although they were loathe to get cable when it came out and I had to fill that desire with the cable at the homes where I babysat.
Anyhow, I wasn't culturally deprived because I lived fully within my culture. Part of the culture of my childhood was television. It was knowing all about Luke and Laura on General Hospital and Chachi and Joanie and The Greatest American Hero and going from listening to Bill Cosby comedy albums and 500 children on gocarts going down the hill to Eddie Murphy and ice creams and Steve Martin singing about King Tut. And because of all of those things I was able to talk with my friends about ideas and approaches to humor and to have common references. I was also able to discover what I liked and to have a taste for my own culture. I could not like "Like a Virgin" and like "Rock n Roll High School". Because I was wealthy in cultural experiences I could pick and choose what I most enjoyed.
By limiting your children to culture that has a range from 500 to 25 years ago you are limiting their ability to communicate with other people and to judge for themselves variations between television shows. And other countries. That's so cool. I love watching the way that tension is built up and released in Japanese movies, it is done at a very different pace to U.S. or U.K. movies. That's true historically as well. Watching the old Parent Trap versus the remake. The concerns about being loved by both parents, the change in the culture of divorce. Wonderful things to talk about. Remakes are fascinating things.
My parents-in-law have insulated themselves against the cultures in which they lived. They were very specific in their cultural approach. They lived in Oman and in Pakistan and in Hong Kong and the Phillipines to name a few places and in all of those places they worked hard not to let the regional culture touch them. They wanted to remain as British as they possibly could. They had staff who were required to maintain things as would be normal for a British household, breakfast at 8, coffee at 11, lunch at 1, tea at 4, dinner at 7 with the required meat and two vegetables. David loved to hide out in the kitchen with his Amah and the cooks. The food was so much better there, where the cook was cooking the food he or she knew, rather than the recipes that David's mom required, and David loved listening to the language flowing around him. When they lived in Sri Lanka and he came back for Christmas break he got the cook to serve him a different fruit every
morning for breakfast. Something that his parents would never have done. They wanted a wall between themselves and the world they lived in. A wall that let them hold on to their sense of being British.
It's a similar wall that you are erecting between your children and the culture at large. Have you expanded out from the shows you allow? Having children who aren't versed in the Brady Bunch, Simon and Linnaea don't really appreciate The Brady Bunch movies. I imagine your children would be able to enjoy the heck out of the humorous look back. And it might get you thinking about living a life that is out of sync with the world around you.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
>I never felt deprived growing up. We never had a TV until I was 12 or 13. I
>
> ~~My kids used to come home from school saying that they are
> culturally deprived because all the other children at school
> watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it.~~
>
> It makes for great discussions. I remember feeling SO stupid around my
> friends because they were all "culturally literate" about current pop
> culture and I was not! I hated it. It took me years of not being able
> to ignore a tv if it was on, to get over my obsession because it was
> controlled for so much of my life.
>
>
lived in an impoverished neighborhood and no one had TVs so it just didn't
matter. However, my dh was deprived because his parents heavily control the
TV, the amount viewed and the content. The deference was our person
perspectives on TV.
For years I never questioned the common conception that TV is "bad" and will
make you stupid. I just didn't have one. I didn't supply one for my dd. She
loved TV and I kept it from her. I did it because I thought it was the right
thing to do. I hadn't questioned that yet. When she was 5 a friend left his
TV in our house when he moved out. We had free cable. It turned into a
control issue between me and dd. I hadn't questioned the validity of my
argument. I was afraid that she would turn into a stupid american.
My dh came into our life around the same time as TV. Becuase of his
childhood experience he helped me move into a more open space with TV. We
gradually came to let it go. We wanted our children to be themselves, and
happy. TV made Malila happy, she loves TV/movies. So now our kids have
unlimited access (for lack of better terms) and have for years. There is no
issues over it. They can discuss cartoons, anime, or books. It is all the
same.
OK, I wrote this with the kids all playing and talked and needing so I hope
that it is clear enough.
Faith
--
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
theater company at a nearby university that has done Julius Caesar -
really good; modernized set, looked kind of bleak/urban, fire escapes
and manhole covers, kind of thing. Also had a performance of Romeo and
Juliet that was fun - the company was just 6 or 7 people, mixed male
and female. At the start of the show, they went into the audience with
a bag. In the bag were slips of paper with the names of the various
characters writ on them. Some had multiple names (for characters with
smaller roles). Each actor had to perform whatever role(s) the person
drew for them - so a big burly guy ended up being Juliet's nurse and a
lovely blonde young lady ended up being Romeo's father and so on. Every
performance, the roles changed - EVERY player had to know EVERY part,
how's that for a challenge? WOW!). Anyhow, back from the digression,
neither of us has READ Shakespeare since the mandatory high school
stuff. But, we know enough bits of it to catch the references where
they pop up (odd places like Spongebob and the Simpsons and so on)
And speaking of Shakespeare, Dr. Who had an excellent episode where the
Dr. and Martha Jones went back in time and met Shakespeare and watched
a play at the Globe Theater and all. Very cool. All about the power of
words. At the very end there was an homage to JK Rowling -
Expelliarmus! (and the Dr. even said Way to go JK! LOL)
Everything's connected!
--Deb
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
>>DH and I love going to see Shakespeare performed (there's a good
>
> I think you should be asking yourself that very same question.
> Reading and Shakespeare does not make one "cultured" in the way you
> mean it. It makes them interested in reading and Shakespeare. I'm
> not into Shakespeare. Does that make me culturally deprived?
>
theater company at a nearby university that has done Julius Caesar -
really good; modernized set, looked kind of bleak/urban, fire escapes
and manhole covers, kind of thing. Also had a performance of Romeo and
Juliet that was fun - the company was just 6 or 7 people, mixed male
and female. At the start of the show, they went into the audience with
a bag. In the bag were slips of paper with the names of the various
characters writ on them. Some had multiple names (for characters with
smaller roles). Each actor had to perform whatever role(s) the person
drew for them - so a big burly guy ended up being Juliet's nurse and a
lovely blonde young lady ended up being Romeo's father and so on. Every
performance, the roles changed - EVERY player had to know EVERY part,
how's that for a challenge? WOW!). Anyhow, back from the digression,
neither of us has READ Shakespeare since the mandatory high school
stuff. But, we know enough bits of it to catch the references where
they pop up (odd places like Spongebob and the Simpsons and so on)
And speaking of Shakespeare, Dr. Who had an excellent episode where the
Dr. and Martha Jones went back in time and met Shakespeare and watched
a play at the Globe Theater and all. Very cool. All about the power of
words. At the very end there was an homage to JK Rowling -
Expelliarmus! (and the Dr. even said Way to go JK! LOL)
Everything's connected!
--Deb
k
OH man... I don't have TV, satellite or cable. :P~~~~~ Dr. Who episodes on
youtube are all chopped up and the other .com suggestion for finding old TV
episodes didn't pan out either. So if anyone knows where I can catch some
of the *preferably* older Dr. Who, gimme a shout. Thanks.
~Katherine
youtube are all chopped up and the other .com suggestion for finding old TV
episodes didn't pan out either. So if anyone knows where I can catch some
of the *preferably* older Dr. Who, gimme a shout. Thanks.
~Katherine
On 9/30/08, Deb <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "swissarmy_wife"
> <heatherbean@...> wrote:
> >>
> >
> > I think you should be asking yourself that very same question.
> > Reading and Shakespeare does not make one "cultured" in the way you
> > mean it. It makes them interested in reading and Shakespeare. I'm
> > not into Shakespeare. Does that make me culturally deprived?
> >
> DH and I love going to see Shakespeare performed (there's a good
> theater company at a nearby university that has done Julius Caesar -
> really good; modernized set, looked kind of bleak/urban, fire escapes
> and manhole covers, kind of thing. Also had a performance of Romeo and
> Juliet that was fun - the company was just 6 or 7 people, mixed male
> and female. At the start of the show, they went into the audience with
> a bag. In the bag were slips of paper with the names of the various
> characters writ on them. Some had multiple names (for characters with
> smaller roles). Each actor had to perform whatever role(s) the person
> drew for them - so a big burly guy ended up being Juliet's nurse and a
> lovely blonde young lady ended up being Romeo's father and so on. Every
> performance, the roles changed - EVERY player had to know EVERY part,
> how's that for a challenge? WOW!). Anyhow, back from the digression,
> neither of us has READ Shakespeare since the mandatory high school
> stuff. But, we know enough bits of it to catch the references where
> they pop up (odd places like Spongebob and the Simpsons and so on)
>
> And speaking of Shakespeare, Dr. Who had an excellent episode where the
> Dr. and Martha Jones went back in time and met Shakespeare and watched
> a play at the Globe Theater and all. Very cool. All about the power of
> words. At the very end there was an homage to JK Rowling -
> Expelliarmus! (and the Dr. even said Way to go JK! LOL)
>
> Everything's connected!
>
> --Deb
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy Curry
My favorite site for tv shows old and new is hulu.com. They even have some full length movies. You will have to look at them closely some are only clips and you will have a few 30 sec commercials, but those are what keep the sight from charging. :)
Tammy C.
----- Original Message ----
From: k <katherand@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 12:07:41 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: looking for feedback
OH man... I don't have TV, satellite or cable. :P~~~~~ Dr. Who episodes on
youtube are all chopped up and the other .com suggestion for finding old TV
episodes didn't pan out either. So if anyone knows where I can catch some
of the *preferably* older Dr. Who, gimme a shout. Thanks.
~Katherine
Tammy C.
----- Original Message ----
From: k <katherand@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 12:07:41 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: looking for feedback
OH man... I don't have TV, satellite or cable. :P~~~~~ Dr. Who episodes on
youtube are all chopped up and the other .com suggestion for finding old TV
episodes didn't pan out either. So if anyone knows where I can catch some
of the *preferably* older Dr. Who, gimme a shout. Thanks.
~Katherine
On 9/30/08, Deb <debra.rossing@ mastercam. com> wrote:
>
> --- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com<unschoolingbasics% 40yahoogroups. com>,
> "swissarmy_wife"
> <heatherbean@ ...> wrote:
> >>
> >
> > I think you should be asking yourself that very same question.
> > Reading and Shakespeare does not make one "cultured" in the way you
> > mean it. It makes them interested in reading and Shakespeare. I'm
> > not into Shakespeare. Does that make me culturally deprived?
> >
> DH and I love going to see Shakespeare performed (there's a good
> theater company at a nearby university that has done Julius Caesar -
> really good; modernized set, looked kind of bleak/urban, fire escapes
> and manhole covers, kind of thing. Also had a performance of Romeo and
> Juliet that was fun - the company was just 6 or 7 people, mixed male
> and female. At the start of the show, they went into the audience with
> a bag. In the bag were slips of paper with the names of the various
> characters writ on them. Some had multiple names (for characters with
> smaller roles). Each actor had to perform whatever role(s) the person
> drew for them - so a big burly guy ended up being Juliet's nurse and a
> lovely blonde young lady ended up being Romeo's father and so on. Every
> performance, the roles changed - EVERY player had to know EVERY part,
> how's that for a challenge? WOW!). Anyhow, back from the digression,
> neither of us has READ Shakespeare since the mandatory high school
> stuff. But, we know enough bits of it to catch the references where
> they pop up (odd places like Spongebob and the Simpsons and so on)
>
> And speaking of Shakespeare, Dr. Who had an excellent episode where the
> Dr. and Martha Jones went back in time and met Shakespeare and watched
> a play at the Globe Theater and all. Very cool. All about the power of
> words. At the very end there was an homage to JK Rowling -
> Expelliarmus! (and the Dr. even said Way to go JK! LOL)
>
> Everything's connected!
>
> --Deb
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
Older dr. who episodes are available on DVD from Netflix - you could
watch them on your computer if it can handle playing DVDs.
For episodes that are on youtube, our favorite way to watch them is to
cue them up into a playlist on the PS3 and watch them one after the
other on the TV (but that wouldn't work without the TV and a PS3) - less
choppy than watching directly on YouTube - we just get a short blip and
it starts playing the next section.
Deb
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the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
watch them on your computer if it can handle playing DVDs.
For episodes that are on youtube, our favorite way to watch them is to
cue them up into a playlist on the PS3 and watch them one after the
other on the TV (but that wouldn't work without the TV and a PS3) - less
choppy than watching directly on YouTube - we just get a short blip and
it starts playing the next section.
Deb
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
----------snip-----------
My kids used to come home from school saying that they
are culturally deprived because all the other children at school
watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it. So
we pulled them from that school and now they spend their time reading
and going to Shakespeare plays instead.
-------------snip-----------
Are you serious? I've treated it as such, but maybe this is a joke and I didn't get it the first time. If you aren't joking, it is not a good way to unschool, to choose to cloister your children with only the knowledge that you think is appropriate. Unschooling is about making the world more accessible, about finding and exploring more and more and sharing and feeding in lots and lots of potential sources of information.
If Simon or Linnaea came home from anything saying they wanted more, I would make that happen. I would buy a tv, if we didn't have one, I would rent videos, I would find and supply many, many things. Whatever it was, really. I would never cut off the supply of information. In fact, given a slight competitive nature, I would research the heck out of what it was they wanted and try and be as good as their other source, maybe.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My kids used to come home from school saying that they
are culturally deprived because all the other children at school
watched lots of tv and then spent most school time discussing it. So
we pulled them from that school and now they spend their time reading
and going to Shakespeare plays instead.
-------------snip-----------
Are you serious? I've treated it as such, but maybe this is a joke and I didn't get it the first time. If you aren't joking, it is not a good way to unschool, to choose to cloister your children with only the knowledge that you think is appropriate. Unschooling is about making the world more accessible, about finding and exploring more and more and sharing and feeding in lots and lots of potential sources of information.
If Simon or Linnaea came home from anything saying they wanted more, I would make that happen. I would buy a tv, if we didn't have one, I would rent videos, I would find and supply many, many things. Whatever it was, really. I would never cut off the supply of information. In fact, given a slight competitive nature, I would research the heck out of what it was they wanted and try and be as good as their other source, maybe.
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Thanks Deb. I tried hulu.com..... no dice. Don't have a PS3 but maybe I
can borrow or go where there is one if I get really much more antsy for Dr.
Who. I used to watch it after school everyday on WNCW Channel 33.
~Katherine
can borrow or go where there is one if I get really much more antsy for Dr.
Who. I used to watch it after school everyday on WNCW Channel 33.
~Katherine
On 9/30/08, Debra Rossing <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> Older dr. who episodes are available on DVD from Netflix - you could
> watch them on your computer if it can handle playing DVDs.
>
> For episodes that are on youtube, our favorite way to watch them is to
> cue them up into a playlist on the PS3 and watch them one after the
> other on the TV (but that wouldn't work without the TV and a PS3) - less
> choppy than watching directly on YouTube - we just get a short blip and
> it starts playing the next section.
>
> Deb
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>
> CNC Software, Inc.
> www.mastercam.com
> **********************************************************************
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
Let us not forget what we can learn from The Brady Bunch and Little House on
the Prairie:
People of color are servants or objects of hate.
Punishment that includes beating with switches is normal.
Standing in corners
public humilation is normal in school
rich kids have more fun
religious kids are better behaved
the only family model that is OK is mom and dad
but step families are OK
and a personal peeve....dogs live outside
TV is not evil. Shakespeare is NOT highbrow and sanitized for your
protection...My tv is on all the time. Sometimes it's kid stuff and other
times it's football...sometimes it's Everybody Loves Raymond, which has been
a very good discussion platform about how married couples should treat each
other and what my boys should look for in a wife.
Relax...the world is a much nicer place when you do.
Karen
PS) We don't watch the news...but we could if they wanted to.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the Prairie:
>There are only whites in the world.
>
People of color are servants or objects of hate.
Punishment that includes beating with switches is normal.
Standing in corners
public humilation is normal in school
rich kids have more fun
religious kids are better behaved
the only family model that is OK is mom and dad
but step families are OK
and a personal peeve....dogs live outside
TV is not evil. Shakespeare is NOT highbrow and sanitized for your
protection...My tv is on all the time. Sometimes it's kid stuff and other
times it's football...sometimes it's Everybody Loves Raymond, which has been
a very good discussion platform about how married couples should treat each
other and what my boys should look for in a wife.
Relax...the world is a much nicer place when you do.
Karen
PS) We don't watch the news...but we could if they wanted to.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
The Shakespeare Code is 2007 so it won't be on any of the copyright protected services. BBC would have it pulled under threat. It's series 3 of the revived Doctor Who series, you'll probably have to rent it on-line or buy it. Netflix has it: http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Doctor_Who_Season_3/70072597?lnkctr=srchrd-sr&strkid=83887360_3_0
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
--------------------
Older dr. who episodes are available on DVD from Netflix - you could
watch them on your computer if it can handle playing DVDs.
For episodes that are on youtube, our favorite way to watch them is to
cue them up into a playlist on the PS3 and watch them one after the
other on the TV (but that wouldn't work without the TV and a PS3) - less
choppy than watching directly on YouTube - we just get a short blip and
it starts playing the next section.
Deb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
--------------------
Older dr. who episodes are available on DVD from Netflix - you could
watch them on your computer if it can handle playing DVDs.
For episodes that are on youtube, our favorite way to watch them is to
cue them up into a playlist on the PS3 and watch them one after the
other on the TV (but that wouldn't work without the TV and a PS3) - less
choppy than watching directly on YouTube - we just get a short blip and
it starts playing the next section.
Deb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Hey they even have instant play Dr. Who's! Yay!!! Click on the right hand
side of the page below where other seasons are linked. :D Thanks,
Schuyler! Weeee!
~Katherine
side of the page below where other seasons are linked. :D Thanks,
Schuyler! Weeee!
~Katherine
On 9/30/08, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
>
> The Shakespeare Code is 2007 so it won't be on any of the copyright
> protected services. BBC would have it pulled under threat. It's series 3 of
> the revived Doctor Who series, you'll probably have to rent it on-line or
> buy it. Netflix has it:
> http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Doctor_Who_Season_3/70072597?lnkctr=srchrd-sr&strkid=83887360_3_0
>
> Schuyler
> http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
> --------------------
>
> Older dr. who episodes are available on DVD from Netflix - you could
> watch them on your computer if it can handle playing DVDs.
>
> For episodes that are on youtube, our favorite way to watch them is to
> cue them up into a playlist on the PS3 and watch them one after the
> other on the TV (but that wouldn't work without the TV and a PS3) - less
> choppy than watching directly on YouTube - we just get a short blip and
> it starts playing the next section.
>
> Deb
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 30, 2008, at 11:56 AM, Deb wrote:
unless you're an actor memorizing your lines. He wrote it for people
to watch performed on stage.
There're two episodes of (the Original) Star Trek that incorporate
Shakespeare: Conscience of the King and Catspaw.
There's some more here:
http://www.wsu.edu/~delahoyd/shakespeare/star.trek.html
And about Star Trek and other series:
http://www.shakespeareinamericanlife.org/features/faqs/faq5.cfm
I'm almost positive I came across an extensive list of Shakespeare
references on TV shows but it's not popping up. If I come across it
again, I'll post it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Anyhow, back from the digression,And, most importantly, Shakespeare wasn't written to be read --
> neither of us has READ Shakespeare since the mandatory high school
> stuff.
unless you're an actor memorizing your lines. He wrote it for people
to watch performed on stage.
There're two episodes of (the Original) Star Trek that incorporate
Shakespeare: Conscience of the King and Catspaw.
There's some more here:
http://www.wsu.edu/~delahoyd/shakespeare/star.trek.html
And about Star Trek and other series:
http://www.shakespeareinamericanlife.org/features/faqs/faq5.cfm
I'm almost positive I came across an extensive list of Shakespeare
references on TV shows but it's not popping up. If I come across it
again, I'll post it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]