Sherri

Yesterday, at a homeschool play day at the park, I was talking to someone
about all the flack I am getting in regards to "homeschooling" in general
let alone unschooling. It's coming from everywhere family, friends etc.
The person I was speaking to told me why are you even speaking to these
people. She said she told her mother first that she was homeschooling and
let her tell her father. She told them that if she ever heard one negative
comment that she would cut them off. She said she had done everything they
asked of her and this is one thing she needed from them. I thought to
myself, gee that sounds so freeing. Maybe it's time to dump some baggage.
Oddly enough some of the people I thought would be most supportive are the
worst.

I think I am going to cut loose some baggage.

Sherri


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Sometimes the situation warrants a break from negative people for a while.
I did that. I didn't make any ultimatums or statements about it but simply
cut back going over to my folks for some time.

My friends wouldn't dare tell me how to raise Karl. I've only had a couple
of misunderstandings which a friend brought up to me in order to apologize.
It was no big deal.

Family is different. I simply stopped engaging in any debate about
*anything* and changed the subject whenever the conversation turned to
something that might get a little contentious.

~Katherine, of little opinion ;) (haha)



On 9/23/08, Sherri <sherrildr@...> wrote:
>
> Yesterday, at a homeschool play day at the park, I was talking to
> someone
> about all the flack I am getting in regards to "homeschooling" in general
> let alone unschooling. It's coming from everywhere family, friends etc.
> The person I was speaking to told me why are you even speaking to these
> people. She said she told her mother first that she was homeschooling and
> let her tell her father. She told them that if she ever heard one negative
> comment that she would cut them off. She said she had done everything they
> asked of her and this is one thing she needed from them. I thought to
> myself, gee that sounds so freeing. Maybe it's time to dump some baggage.
> Oddly enough some of the people I thought would be most supportive are the
> worst.
>
> I think I am going to cut loose some baggage.
>
> Sherri
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

freeedomm

--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
>>
> My friends wouldn't dare tell me how to raise Karl. I've only had
a couple
> of misunderstandings which a friend brought up to me in order to
apologize.
> It was no big deal.
>


Sometimes I wonder if it is a personality trait that says, "Don't
mess with me!" Why it is that some people don't seemed to be
bothered with people butting into their business.

I feel like I have a note stamped on my forehead, "Please give me
unsolicited advice, especially if it is to point out what you think I
am doing wrong."

I would love to know how to have the personality that says, "Don't
even go there, I don't even want to hear what you think is wrong with
my life"

What is it in person that makes them more/less likely to receive
criticism?

Jamie

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: freeedomm <insanity09@...>


I would love to know how to have the personality that says, "Don't
even go there, I don't even want to hear what you think is wrong with
my life"

What is it in person that makes them more/less likely to receive
criticism?

-=-=-=-=-=-

Confidence.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

k

>
> What is it in person that makes them more/less likely to receive criticism?
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> Confidence.


Yes.

More likely to receive criticism because confidence means not being worried
about someone's opinion of me so much that I can't hear the things I might
find useful.

I'm less likely to receive useful info if I don't have the confidence to
take what I want and leave the rest.

Another question.. what makes a person more/less likely to have confidence?

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

swissarmy_wife

Confidence. I am one of those people who doesn't get "messed with"
much. I tried to think of something profound to write here; but
there is nothing profound about it. If you are confident, even if you
just ACT confident, it makes a HUGE difference whether people hand out
unsolicited advice or not. Still, there are people who's ego's
outweigh their common sense and hand out advice anyway.


> What is it in person that makes them more/less likely to receive
> criticism?

jmarkoski

My kids are younger than "school age", but I never get any flak from
anyone about any of my parenting choices (extended nursing,
cosleeping, respectful parenting, planning on homeschooling, etc). I
have never figured out if it's because people in general either:
1) don't care what I do,
2) think I am a nut,
3) consider me too intimidating to challenge or
4) know I don't care about what they think about my personal choices
5) are overwhelmed by the confidence I exude :)

Whatever it is is ok with me! It's hard enough to do what I feel is
right in my daily interactions with my kids (under high stress times)
without someone else trying to sabotage it!

Julie M
Tyler 6/07
James 9/05




--- In [email protected], "Sherri" <sherrildr@...>
wrote:
>
> Yesterday, at a homeschool play day at the park, I was talking to
someone
> about all the flack I am getting in regards to "homeschooling" in
general
> let alone unschooling. It's coming from everywhere family, friends
etc.
> The person I was speaking to told me why are you even speaking to
these
> people. She said she told her mother first that she was
homeschooling and
> let her tell her father. She told them that if she ever heard one
negative
> comment that she would cut them off. She said she had done
everything they
> asked of her and this is one thing she needed from them. I thought
to
> myself, gee that sounds so freeing. Maybe it's time to dump some
baggage.
> Oddly enough some of the people I thought would be most supportive
are the
> worst.
>
> I think I am going to cut loose some baggage.
>
> Sherri
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ren Allen

~~Confidence. I am one of those people who doesn't get "messed with"
much. ~~

Same here.
I think if you are truly confident in your choices, then you feel less
of a need to defend anything. I can usually make a couple of great
points that leave them unable to respond and then change the subject.:)


Ren

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: k <katherand@...>

Another question.. what makes a person more/less likely to have
confidence?

-=-=-=-=-

Success or failure---and how it's perceived.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

Ren Allen

And now all the words from the Amy Steinberg song "confidence" are
stuck in my head.

"confidence is your best defense...."

Ren

k

To temporarily deal with criticism, one technique called fogging is a way to
partly agree with disagreeable statements using qualified yes's. With
perfect strangers, this technique is fine for the whole interchange.

When I'm feeling my way around something new, I may keep the criticism at a
low level, even with people I know well. Often I lead in with fogging and
then decide in the conversation if I want to find out more, either right
then or later. If I want to go beyond fogging, I ask more about a person's
thinking. I may repeat something to clarify. Sometimes someone tells me a
perception about me that I'm not aware anyone would have, and it may give me
the idea to change my presentation a bit or decide to do something a little
differently. Some people just want to talk.

Here's something from http://www.therapy-now.com/assert_tech.htm

FOGGING This method is used to combat criticism. It basically involves
agreeing with the other person enough to let them think you [might] follow
their advice.

In this example, someone is criticizing the way you look:
Other Person: Your skirt is kind of short. Don't you think you should wear
them longer? The style is longer skirts now.
You: You're probably right. The style is longer skirts now.
Other Person: I think that if your hair was shorter, it might be easier to
take care of.
You: You could be right. Short hair is easier.
Other Person: You'd look much more feminine if you used lip liner.
You: You're right. I hadn't thought about it. I might look more feminine
with lip liner.
Other Person: You really should set a good example for your daughter. She
copies you.
You: Yes, she does copy me.

Fogging is useful in situations where you want to minimize communication.
You don't want to listen to advice and you don't want to argue. Fogging is
not always good for situations with partners or friends where you wish to
keep communication open and give the other an opportunity to get their
feelings out. In such instances, it's best to listen to other people until
they've spoken their mind. Then you can comment.

I still have all the space I need to do what I want to do. I haven't given
up, I haven't answered for myself, and I haven't fought.

~Katherine




On 9/24/08, freeedomm <insanity09@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> k <katherand@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> > My friends wouldn't dare tell me how to raise Karl. I've only had
> a couple
> > of misunderstandings which a friend brought up to me in order to
> apologize.
> > It was no big deal.
> >
>
> Sometimes I wonder if it is a personality trait that says, "Don't
> mess with me!" Why it is that some people don't seemed to be
> bothered with people butting into their business.
>
> I feel like I have a note stamped on my forehead, "Please give me
> unsolicited advice, especially if it is to point out what you think I
> am doing wrong."
>
> I would love to know how to have the personality that says, "Don't
> even go there, I don't even want to hear what you think is wrong with
> my life"
>
> What is it in person that makes them more/less likely to receive
> criticism?
>
> Jamie
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

>
> FOGGING This method is used to combat criticism. It basically involves
> agreeing with the other person enough to let them think you will follow
> their advice.


I didn't totally agree with the definition above from the site I gave.

I don't think of fogging as agreeing with someone enough to get them to
think anything. I don't usually care *what* they think. It's their mind,
not mine.

Fogging the way I use it is to agree as much as you honestly can and not
explain why you don't agree with someone.

~Katherine

Never explain yourself: Your friends don't need it and your enemies won't
believe it. -Unknown
(And last but not least there this one... Never say never. Sometimes I do
explain something.)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jodi Bezzola

~~FOGGING This method is used to combat criticism. It basically involves
agreeing with the other person enough to let them think you [might] follow
their advice.~~

Thanks for sharing this, it sounds brilliant.  I sure wish I'd read this *before* I stumbled into a massive advice-giving session with my in-laws this past summer!  I made the complete mistake of trying to answer their questions/concerns and it turned into quite the brooha.  BIG learning-take!!!  Note to self: *never* do that again :).
 
Jodi




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

I learned it on my own family... :) So yeah. Wonderful learning take. :)

~Katherine



On 9/24/08, Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>
>
> ~~FOGGING This method is used to combat criticism. It basically involves
> agreeing with the other person enough to let them think you [might] follow
> their advice.~~
>
> Thanks for sharing this, it sounds brilliant. I sure wish I'd read this
> *before* I stumbled into a massive advice-giving session with my in-laws
> this past summer! I made the complete mistake of trying to answer their
> questions/concerns and it turned into quite the brooha. BIG
> learning-take!!! Note to self: *never* do that again :).
>
> Jodi
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "freeedomm"
<insanity09@...> wrote:
>> What is it in person that makes them more/less likely to receive
> criticism?

Persistent positivity!

That sounds silly, I know, but I find I rarely receive criticism
when I'm focused on the positive aspects of my kids and our life
together. I don't vent about my kids to friends or extended family -
although my partner and I vent to each other from time to time. To
anyone out of the daily reality of unschooling life - its Fantastic!
My kids are So Cool! They do the Neatest Things All the Time! And
really, its true, they are fabulous people, and I love our
unschooling life.

The upshot of all this positivity is that people rarely try to tell
me I'm "doing it wrong". Sometimes I'll get questions like "but
don't you think they need discipline?" and I'll tell some happy
story of one of my kids persevering and succeeding in a personal
goal, or being kind and thoughtful, or whatever. Or, when Mo was
still putting her shoes on the opposite feet, for example, I'd smile
brightly at the adult pointing this fact out to me and say "oh, yes
she's So Independent! She loves to Dress Herself!" as if that were
the most wonderful thing in the world (it was!).

The other wonderful effect of being actively positive, is that it
helps *me* when things aren't going so well. When I find myself
getting bogged down, complaining to myself and my partner about the
kids, I can start to actively shift my words and thoughts to
something more positive. For me, since I seem to think better "in
print" I'll sometimes start a long, whiny post for this board or
the "Always" board, get halfway through and start editing. By the
time I'm done I have a paen to my wonderful kids and you'd never
know I logged on to complain about them. Even better, I don't feel
like complaining any more.

There, now y'all know my secret ;)

---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 14)

k

LOL. I love how you talk about evolving when editing your posts!

Optimism is one kind of confidence. Feeling that Life is Sweet.

Contrast that with saying we're sure it gets Worse, an uninspiring
declaration that encourages no one.

I love semantics.

~Katherine




On 9/24/08, Meredith <meredith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "freeedomm"
> <insanity09@...> wrote:
> >> What is it in person that makes them more/less likely to receive
> > criticism?
>
> Persistent positivity!
>
> That sounds silly, I know, but I find I rarely receive criticism
> when I'm focused on the positive aspects of my kids and our life
> together. I don't vent about my kids to friends or extended family -
> although my partner and I vent to each other from time to time. To
> anyone out of the daily reality of unschooling life - its Fantastic!
> My kids are So Cool! They do the Neatest Things All the Time! And
> really, its true, they are fabulous people, and I love our
> unschooling life.
>
> The upshot of all this positivity is that people rarely try to tell
> me I'm "doing it wrong". Sometimes I'll get questions like "but
> don't you think they need discipline?" and I'll tell some happy
> story of one of my kids persevering and succeeding in a personal
> goal, or being kind and thoughtful, or whatever. Or, when Mo was
> still putting her shoes on the opposite feet, for example, I'd smile
> brightly at the adult pointing this fact out to me and say "oh, yes
> she's So Independent! She loves to Dress Herself!" as if that were
> the most wonderful thing in the world (it was!).
>
> The other wonderful effect of being actively positive, is that it
> helps *me* when things aren't going so well. When I find myself
> getting bogged down, complaining to myself and my partner about the
> kids, I can start to actively shift my words and thoughts to
> something more positive. For me, since I seem to think better "in
> print" I'll sometimes start a long, whiny post for this board or
> the "Always" board, get halfway through and start editing. By the
> time I'm done I have a paen to my wonderful kids and you'd never
> know I logged on to complain about them. Even better, I don't feel
> like complaining any more.
>
> There, now y'all know my secret ;)
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 14)
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Sep 24, 2008, at 2:15 PM, k wrote:

> Other Person: I think that if your hair was shorter, it might be
> easier to
> take care of.
> You: You could be right. Short hair is easier.
> Other Person: You'd look much more feminine if you used lip liner.
> You: You're right. I hadn't thought about it. I might look more
> feminine
> with lip liner.

"You could be right," is one of my favorite responses.

I'm also fond of, "I don't want to disagree with you."

That's the most ambiguous line ever, don't you think?

Lots of times the trick to exuding confidence is in knowing what NOT
to say and knowing how little to say.

Don't fill awkward silences following a rude comment.

If someone says something critical to me, which almost never happens,
I like to let the sound of it hang in the air between us for a minute
or two, just to make sure the rude person has a chance for it to echo
in their ears.

-pam

freeedomm

--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> To temporarily deal with criticism, one technique called fogging is
a way to
> partly agree with disagreeable statements using qualified yes's.
With
> perfect strangers, this technique is fine for the whole interchange.
>
>

Thanks for the reminder of this, I remember loving this when I first
read about it. I forgot about using it.

Jamie

k

I agree. People will avoid messing with a person who doesn't fix their
uglies. Cuts out a whole lot of rude (nonconstructive) criticism. :) To
someone in a power position or close, like an employer or a spouse, it might
yield some unintended backlash. (And maybe it's to be used with caution in
those situations.)

That "don't want to disagree" line is great! It can be taken to be sincere
and caring and not the least bit nasty. Sort of gently putting someone on
their toes... with the ball in their court. Very handy.

~Katherine




On 9/25/08, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 24, 2008, at 2:15 PM, k wrote:
>
> > Other Person: I think that if your hair was shorter, it might be
> > easier to
> > take care of.
> > You: You could be right. Short hair is easier.
> > Other Person: You'd look much more feminine if you used lip liner.
> > You: You're right. I hadn't thought about it. I might look more
> > feminine
> > with lip liner.
>
> "You could be right," is one of my favorite responses.
>
> I'm also fond of, "I don't want to disagree with you."
>
> That's the most ambiguous line ever, don't you think?
>
> Lots of times the trick to exuding confidence is in knowing what NOT
> to say and knowing how little to say.
>
> Don't fill awkward silences following a rude comment.
>
> If someone says something critical to me, which almost never happens,
> I like to let the sound of it hang in the air between us for a minute
> or two, just to make sure the rude person has a chance for it to echo
> in their ears.
>
> -pam
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

I didn't say that, did I?

People will avoid messing with a person who doesn't fix their uglies.
>

I *meant* people will avoid *criticizing* such a person. *Maybe* they'll
avoid the person and then again maybe they won't.

*Sigh* I seriously need to go back to bed. I re-read another sloppy post I
wrote today and don't have the energy to mess with it. And anyway
nevermind.... what Joyce had to say was much more to the point.

:) Toodle anyhoodle.

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

scofield62001

--- In [email protected], "Sherri" <sherrildr@...> wrote:

Oddly enough some of the people I thought would be most supportive are
the worst.


Hi Sherri,

I found that to be so true for me also. My best friend of 27
years does not speak to me anymore since I told her I was going to
homeschool and my sister who I thought would go through the roof and
ask me if I was nuts, stands behind me 100%.

Oneida, Mom to
DS 9/82, DS 3/89, DD 11/96, DS 9/01

strawlis

--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "freeedomm"
> <insanity09@> wrote:
> >> What is it in person that makes them more/less likely to receive
> > criticism?
>
> Persistent positivity!

:):) This is by far my biggest weapon in my confidence
arsenal....especially when dealing with my MIL. She is a huge
pessimist...all dome and gloom..she's always trying to drag a person,an
event, mood, etc, down. I'm all "We're GREAT, It was Magnificent! Isn't
that/it Beautiful." I know it drives here crazy(tee hee)...and she
mostly avoids really getting into it with me.

Elisabeth, mama to Liv(9)& Lex(8)