tv, video games, etc
Tammy Brock
I am currently listening to a book where this topic comes up and it bothered
me so I wanted to see what others have to say on the subject. It bothered me
because the assumption was if you like to play video games and watch TV then
you need constant interaction and distraction. He said when a child comes
into a place, he takes off his Ipod and needs something else to replace it
or he'll go to sleep. I guess its another example of our all or nothing
society.
Tammy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
me so I wanted to see what others have to say on the subject. It bothered me
because the assumption was if you like to play video games and watch TV then
you need constant interaction and distraction. He said when a child comes
into a place, he takes off his Ipod and needs something else to replace it
or he'll go to sleep. I guess its another example of our all or nothing
society.
Tammy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa Russell
I'd like to see the debate on this topic, too.
I'm not sure what you mean by going to sleep?
My old feeling was that;
"TV programming for kids is stupid and designed to make our kids into stupid lemmings controlled by big corporations, making them into little fashionistas and conformists, teach them how to have destructive social relationships, and kill the earth, and kids programming should be avoided like the plague because it's just as evil, brainless, manipulative and coercive as school"
My new feeling is kind of like;
"how dare you deny them the one major form of communication of their generation, let them watch it as much as they want and decide for themselves what is and isn't stupid, they just might like that crap and could possibly use it to make the world a better place"
SO- Each day lately I've been rotating different messy art projects and huge activities on our Dining room table, so that there's never "nothing to do" and I've also taken them to the library so they can choose books and, where I used to limit TV to "after 6pm only" I have instead just been saying yes every time they ask, and for the first few days it was on all day long but today it was only on for like 1/2 an hour. They still choose stupid things (Drake & Josh) and they love it, and I have tried to watch WITH them, but I just can't enjoy Drake & Josh. The kids feel the same way about CNN.
I'm interested in seeing the media debate here, since I obviously have several opposing opinions about the matter, and CNN is owned by a big corporation, too so it's not really "unbiased news" anyway, is it?
My husband's mom was a "neat freak" who yelled at the kids all day long to clean, and plugged them into TV so they wouldn't make messes. He "needs" the TV on to fall asleep, he's had one in his room since he was born, and he doesn't even watch it, but he "needs" the flashing lights and sound. I on the other hand, have to lay a pillow over my head because the flashing lights make it hard for me to sleep and so does the sound. For that reason, I have forbidden TVs in my kids rooms, I think it's nearly a disorder to be unable to fall asleep in silence. In my mind, that silence is perfect peacefulness, a time to reflect upon the day, think deep thoughts, deliberately relax my body, and create intentions for the next day. I absolutely cherish the 10-15 minutes of "falling asleep" time, and sometimes I'll ask my husband to come to bed later than me, so I can have that time to myself. Usually, though I watch TV with him and lay a pillow over my head when
I've had enough of it.
I realize that my value-ing of that quiet time doesn't make me any better or worse than him, and that my efforts to keep my kids from turning into "sleeping TV addicts" is one-sided and maybe his mom didn't create that, maybe she did- either way, it has nothing to do with my kids. I don't love him any less for it.
Lisa
http://www.lisarussell.org because .com and .net were taken
----- Original Message ----
From: Tammy Brock <tammy@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 2:13:41 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] tv, video games, etc
I am currently listening to a book where this topic comes up and it bothered
me so I wanted to see what others have to say on the subject. It bothered me
because the assumption was if you like to play video games and watch TV then
you need constant interaction and distraction. He said when a child comes
into a place, he takes off his Ipod and needs something else to replace it
or he'll go to sleep. I guess its another example of our all or nothing
society.
Tammy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm not sure what you mean by going to sleep?
My old feeling was that;
"TV programming for kids is stupid and designed to make our kids into stupid lemmings controlled by big corporations, making them into little fashionistas and conformists, teach them how to have destructive social relationships, and kill the earth, and kids programming should be avoided like the plague because it's just as evil, brainless, manipulative and coercive as school"
My new feeling is kind of like;
"how dare you deny them the one major form of communication of their generation, let them watch it as much as they want and decide for themselves what is and isn't stupid, they just might like that crap and could possibly use it to make the world a better place"
SO- Each day lately I've been rotating different messy art projects and huge activities on our Dining room table, so that there's never "nothing to do" and I've also taken them to the library so they can choose books and, where I used to limit TV to "after 6pm only" I have instead just been saying yes every time they ask, and for the first few days it was on all day long but today it was only on for like 1/2 an hour. They still choose stupid things (Drake & Josh) and they love it, and I have tried to watch WITH them, but I just can't enjoy Drake & Josh. The kids feel the same way about CNN.
I'm interested in seeing the media debate here, since I obviously have several opposing opinions about the matter, and CNN is owned by a big corporation, too so it's not really "unbiased news" anyway, is it?
My husband's mom was a "neat freak" who yelled at the kids all day long to clean, and plugged them into TV so they wouldn't make messes. He "needs" the TV on to fall asleep, he's had one in his room since he was born, and he doesn't even watch it, but he "needs" the flashing lights and sound. I on the other hand, have to lay a pillow over my head because the flashing lights make it hard for me to sleep and so does the sound. For that reason, I have forbidden TVs in my kids rooms, I think it's nearly a disorder to be unable to fall asleep in silence. In my mind, that silence is perfect peacefulness, a time to reflect upon the day, think deep thoughts, deliberately relax my body, and create intentions for the next day. I absolutely cherish the 10-15 minutes of "falling asleep" time, and sometimes I'll ask my husband to come to bed later than me, so I can have that time to myself. Usually, though I watch TV with him and lay a pillow over my head when
I've had enough of it.
I realize that my value-ing of that quiet time doesn't make me any better or worse than him, and that my efforts to keep my kids from turning into "sleeping TV addicts" is one-sided and maybe his mom didn't create that, maybe she did- either way, it has nothing to do with my kids. I don't love him any less for it.
Lisa
http://www.lisarussell.org because .com and .net were taken
----- Original Message ----
From: Tammy Brock <tammy@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 2:13:41 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] tv, video games, etc
I am currently listening to a book where this topic comes up and it bothered
me so I wanted to see what others have to say on the subject. It bothered me
because the assumption was if you like to play video games and watch TV then
you need constant interaction and distraction. He said when a child comes
into a place, he takes off his Ipod and needs something else to replace it
or he'll go to sleep. I guess its another example of our all or nothing
society.
Tammy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 18, 2008, at 5:13 PM, Tammy Brock wrote:
more worthwhile than what a book says?
It's a very odd phenomenon. People will arrive on unschooling lists
full of doom and gloom about the negative effects of TV and video
games and proceed to tell us, in essence, what our kids are like:
that they're fat on the way to heart attacks, have the attention
spans of gnats and they're irrevocably addicted. And they know that
because the book says so.
But if anyone attends an unschooling conference they'll see loads of
kids who are active and well spoken and not intravenously connected
to portable TVs.
If there's any truth to what's written in the books, since TV and
video games aren't affecting unschooled kids negatively, then it must
be school that's doing it.
Here's an antidote to the book:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It bothered meWhat do you observe happening to your kids? Isn't what your eyes say
> because the assumption was if you like to play video games and
> watch TV then
> you need constant interaction and distraction.
more worthwhile than what a book says?
It's a very odd phenomenon. People will arrive on unschooling lists
full of doom and gloom about the negative effects of TV and video
games and proceed to tell us, in essence, what our kids are like:
that they're fat on the way to heart attacks, have the attention
spans of gnats and they're irrevocably addicted. And they know that
because the book says so.
But if anyone attends an unschooling conference they'll see loads of
kids who are active and well spoken and not intravenously connected
to portable TVs.
If there's any truth to what's written in the books, since TV and
video games aren't affecting unschooled kids negatively, then it must
be school that's doing it.
Here's an antidote to the book:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Tammy Brock" <tammy@...>
wrote:
Both my kids like to watch tv and play video games.
Ray's really social, and always has been, even back before we had a
tv. He needed almost constant interaction when he was little, for
sure, and we were living in the woods in a commune. Can't blame the
tv on that one ;)
Mo, otoh, is much more of an introvert. She's had unlimited movies
from toddlerhood and unlimited satellite tv for a couple years, now,
plus video games. She's definately a very busy person - always
building or creating something, it seems. The tv is often on at the
same time if she's inside, but she doesn't seem distracted by it.
after a long day? I'm being facetious, but only slightly. I can
think of plenty of reasons for a school kid to be so utterly wiped
out as to doze off if not actively kept awake - or just so utterly
bored, for that matter. That doesn't really apply to my family.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 14)
wrote:
>It bothered mewatch TV then
> because the assumption was if you like to play video games and
> you need constant interaction and distraction.*********************
Both my kids like to watch tv and play video games.
Ray's really social, and always has been, even back before we had a
tv. He needed almost constant interaction when he was little, for
sure, and we were living in the woods in a commune. Can't blame the
tv on that one ;)
Mo, otoh, is much more of an introvert. She's had unlimited movies
from toddlerhood and unlimited satellite tv for a couple years, now,
plus video games. She's definately a very busy person - always
building or creating something, it seems. The tv is often on at the
same time if she's inside, but she doesn't seem distracted by it.
>He said when a child comesreplace it
> into a place, he takes off his Ipod and needs something else to
> or he'll go to sleep.I don't know that child - maybe he goes to school and is worn out
after a long day? I'm being facetious, but only slightly. I can
think of plenty of reasons for a school kid to be so utterly wiped
out as to doze off if not actively kept awake - or just so utterly
bored, for that matter. That doesn't really apply to my family.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 14)
Debra Rossing
DS wants lots of interaction but it has little to do with videogames or
TV - that's his makeup. And, he falls asleep just as readily with TV as
with a book so it's not that the TV is necessary to keep him awake and
other things put him to sleep.
Deb
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TV - that's his makeup. And, he falls asleep just as readily with TV as
with a book so it's not that the TV is necessary to keep him awake and
other things put him to sleep.
Deb
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
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amberlee_b
They know what is and isn't "stupid". I remember when Telletubbies (ewwww) first came
out and my little son saw the commercials and really wanted to watch it. So on the first
day, the first show we sat on the sofa together and started to watch. I didn't say anything.
Just sat there (partly in shock I think....lol). After the baby head sun rose and the tubbies
came out my ds turned to me with his nose squished up and said, "mom, this is stupid,
let's go do something else". He was almost 2.
Since then we have seen bits and pieces of shows and the kids have chosen not to like
them for whatever reason. They hate spongebob and most of the "ugly" cartoon
generation, not into simpsons, oddparents, and really can't stand rugrats. Fine by me.
What do they like? Superman and the Justice League, Spiderman, The Tick (how can you
not like that old goofy cartoon! Love him...hee hee), Looney Toons (my fav), the old X-
men cartoons and things like that. We don't have anything but basic cable right now so we
don't get all the "fancy" channels, just local and cheaper internet. But when we have had
cable 95% of the time they would choose discovery channel or animal planet, things like
that.
As for the news, don't watch it. It is all spun. You will not ever find news without spin. I
haven't forbidden TV for their rooms, we just can't afford more and the one in the LR/FR is
just fine since we mostly use it for movies. If someone isn't interested in what is on they
can play a DVD on the computer upstairs or find something else to do...many choices. My
DH and I chose not to have one in the Bedroom because we like to focus on each other as
it is OUR room... :)
All in all I think that video games and TV do not murderers and thieves make. I watched
all sorts of spy and murder mysteries as a kid and I never once took a gun to school or
shot up the local McDonalds. It may help mold neglected or injured brains, but ultimately
it is their choice that makes them a murderer or robber, etc.
Just my 2 cents.
out and my little son saw the commercials and really wanted to watch it. So on the first
day, the first show we sat on the sofa together and started to watch. I didn't say anything.
Just sat there (partly in shock I think....lol). After the baby head sun rose and the tubbies
came out my ds turned to me with his nose squished up and said, "mom, this is stupid,
let's go do something else". He was almost 2.
Since then we have seen bits and pieces of shows and the kids have chosen not to like
them for whatever reason. They hate spongebob and most of the "ugly" cartoon
generation, not into simpsons, oddparents, and really can't stand rugrats. Fine by me.
What do they like? Superman and the Justice League, Spiderman, The Tick (how can you
not like that old goofy cartoon! Love him...hee hee), Looney Toons (my fav), the old X-
men cartoons and things like that. We don't have anything but basic cable right now so we
don't get all the "fancy" channels, just local and cheaper internet. But when we have had
cable 95% of the time they would choose discovery channel or animal planet, things like
that.
As for the news, don't watch it. It is all spun. You will not ever find news without spin. I
haven't forbidden TV for their rooms, we just can't afford more and the one in the LR/FR is
just fine since we mostly use it for movies. If someone isn't interested in what is on they
can play a DVD on the computer upstairs or find something else to do...many choices. My
DH and I chose not to have one in the Bedroom because we like to focus on each other as
it is OUR room... :)
All in all I think that video games and TV do not murderers and thieves make. I watched
all sorts of spy and murder mysteries as a kid and I never once took a gun to school or
shot up the local McDonalds. It may help mold neglected or injured brains, but ultimately
it is their choice that makes them a murderer or robber, etc.
Just my 2 cents.
carenkh
~~~They still choose stupid things (Drake & Josh) and they love it,
and I have tried to watch WITH them, but I just can't enjoy Drake &
Josh.~~~
My friends tease me because they know I have a crush on Drake Bell. I
know, it gets into that creepy-age-difference range, but it's total
fantasy anyway, right?* I think the show is sweet and silly. He's a
cutie! LOL
Caren
* I was joking with a friend about this - she's recently separated in
a college town, and was talking about all the young men around. We did
the creepy age-difference thing (your age, divided in two + seven -
anyone younger than that borders on "creepy" for dating!), then we
ended up saying, "As long as he's legal! He just needs to be legal!"
With lots of laughter. THEN I saw Kim Cattrall on Oprah, and SHE said
"As long as he's *driving*!" LOL So - Drake Bell, creepy age
difference, but legal and driving!
and I have tried to watch WITH them, but I just can't enjoy Drake &
Josh.~~~
My friends tease me because they know I have a crush on Drake Bell. I
know, it gets into that creepy-age-difference range, but it's total
fantasy anyway, right?* I think the show is sweet and silly. He's a
cutie! LOL
Caren
* I was joking with a friend about this - she's recently separated in
a college town, and was talking about all the young men around. We did
the creepy age-difference thing (your age, divided in two + seven -
anyone younger than that borders on "creepy" for dating!), then we
ended up saying, "As long as he's legal! He just needs to be legal!"
With lots of laughter. THEN I saw Kim Cattrall on Oprah, and SHE said
"As long as he's *driving*!" LOL So - Drake Bell, creepy age
difference, but legal and driving!
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Lisa Russell
<lisalisarussell@...> wrote:
group. I think its important to clarify that for anyone used to
debate groups - its a different format.
Josh. The kids feel the same way about CNN.
***********************
I'm not a fan of either of those types of show, personally. There
are some shows I enjoy watching with the kids, others I say "I don't
really like this one" and go do something else. Sometimes, if one of
my kids is really excited about a particular show, I'll watch more
of it. If I *really* can't stand it, I'll look it up online
(Wikipedia is good for this), get an idea of who the characters are,
the main themes, background, whatever - just get myself some more
information so I can share my kid's excitement and talk with him or
her about it.
I've ended up enjoying some shows more than I expected - Total Drama
Island for instance, or Family Guy. Others I just can't get into -
Ed, Edd and Eddy, for example, and Drake and Josh for that matter.
One thing I have noticed is that its important for me to watch the
show for Me - not as The Parent - does that make sense? If I'm
thinking "do *I* like this?" I will sometimes feel very differently
than if I'm thinking "is this a good show for my child to watch?" My
kids are pretty savvy - they know what they like, what disturbs
them, what scares them. I can't "know" that for them.
for themselves what is and isn't stupid, they just might like that
crap and could possibly use it to make the world a better place"
***********************
I noticed something really interesting when we switched from having
just Netflix to just satellite (we can't afford both at the moment).
Its a different experience watching a whole season of something in
one fell swoop as opposed to in weekly installments. It reminded me
of the way Charles Dickens originally wrote in installments, but we
*read* his works, today, as complete entities. With that in mind
(and these days, writers of serial shows have that in mind!) its not
terribly realistic to look at a single episode of something and make
decisions about the work as a whole.
I know, I know, some folks are probably rolling their eyes at a
comparison of Dickens to CSI or Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The point
I'm getting to, in a rather roundabout manner, is that tv functions
in some of the same ways as literature. Its not identical, by any
means, but I honestly don't think its worse. I've certainly had more
thoughtful, insightful conversations with both my kids about tv
programs than anything either one of them has read.
facinates me, though, is the way some "non-fiction" shows are
starting to dovetail with the internet. Mythbusters, for example,
not only solicits ideas from watchers, but has message boards where
folks can discuss and debate the science behind various concepts -
some of which come to the show, others not. Its an interesting
phenomenon - some aspects of tv are actually becoming more
interactive over time.
I had to chuckle over this. I live deep in the country -
the "hills'n'hollers" of TN. Three quarters of the year, there's no
such thing as silence in the evenings. The frogs and crickets and
cicadas and catydids and owls and wood pigeons create quite the
racket! With that in mind - maybe its the need for silence that's
more abnormal. It may be completely adaptive to *need* a background
of sounds to fall asleep - lets you know those nocturnal predators
aren't sneaking up on you or something ;)
My 7yo used to fall asleep with the tv on nightly - when she was 3-
5. But she's since switched to turning the tv off when she's ready
to go to sleep. I've gone through phases where I couldn't get to
sleep without the radio on, or couldn't get to sleep without reading
for at least an hour, or knitting, or doing yoga. Weird. But maybe
reassuring to you. Not only is that sort of thing different for
different people, it can change.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 14)
<lisalisarussell@...> wrote:
>Technically, this *isn't* a forum for debate, its a discussion
> I'd like to see the debate on this topic, too.
group. I think its important to clarify that for anyone used to
debate groups - its a different format.
>They still choose stupid things (Drake & Josh) and they love it,and I have tried to watch WITH them, but I just can't enjoy Drake &
Josh. The kids feel the same way about CNN.
***********************
I'm not a fan of either of those types of show, personally. There
are some shows I enjoy watching with the kids, others I say "I don't
really like this one" and go do something else. Sometimes, if one of
my kids is really excited about a particular show, I'll watch more
of it. If I *really* can't stand it, I'll look it up online
(Wikipedia is good for this), get an idea of who the characters are,
the main themes, background, whatever - just get myself some more
information so I can share my kid's excitement and talk with him or
her about it.
I've ended up enjoying some shows more than I expected - Total Drama
Island for instance, or Family Guy. Others I just can't get into -
Ed, Edd and Eddy, for example, and Drake and Josh for that matter.
One thing I have noticed is that its important for me to watch the
show for Me - not as The Parent - does that make sense? If I'm
thinking "do *I* like this?" I will sometimes feel very differently
than if I'm thinking "is this a good show for my child to watch?" My
kids are pretty savvy - they know what they like, what disturbs
them, what scares them. I can't "know" that for them.
> "how dare you deny them the one major form of communication oftheir generation, let them watch it as much as they want and decide
for themselves what is and isn't stupid, they just might like that
crap and could possibly use it to make the world a better place"
***********************
I noticed something really interesting when we switched from having
just Netflix to just satellite (we can't afford both at the moment).
Its a different experience watching a whole season of something in
one fell swoop as opposed to in weekly installments. It reminded me
of the way Charles Dickens originally wrote in installments, but we
*read* his works, today, as complete entities. With that in mind
(and these days, writers of serial shows have that in mind!) its not
terribly realistic to look at a single episode of something and make
decisions about the work as a whole.
I know, I know, some folks are probably rolling their eyes at a
comparison of Dickens to CSI or Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The point
I'm getting to, in a rather roundabout manner, is that tv functions
in some of the same ways as literature. Its not identical, by any
means, but I honestly don't think its worse. I've certainly had more
thoughtful, insightful conversations with both my kids about tv
programs than anything either one of them has read.
>they just might like that crap and could possibly use it to makeLike I said, I'm not a fan of that type of show. Something that
>the world a better place
facinates me, though, is the way some "non-fiction" shows are
starting to dovetail with the internet. Mythbusters, for example,
not only solicits ideas from watchers, but has message boards where
folks can discuss and debate the science behind various concepts -
some of which come to the show, others not. Its an interesting
phenomenon - some aspects of tv are actually becoming more
interactive over time.
>I think it's nearly a disorder to be unable to fall asleep insilence.
I had to chuckle over this. I live deep in the country -
the "hills'n'hollers" of TN. Three quarters of the year, there's no
such thing as silence in the evenings. The frogs and crickets and
cicadas and catydids and owls and wood pigeons create quite the
racket! With that in mind - maybe its the need for silence that's
more abnormal. It may be completely adaptive to *need* a background
of sounds to fall asleep - lets you know those nocturnal predators
aren't sneaking up on you or something ;)
My 7yo used to fall asleep with the tv on nightly - when she was 3-
5. But she's since switched to turning the tv off when she's ready
to go to sleep. I've gone through phases where I couldn't get to
sleep without the radio on, or couldn't get to sleep without reading
for at least an hour, or knitting, or doing yoga. Weird. But maybe
reassuring to you. Not only is that sort of thing different for
different people, it can change.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 14)
carnationsgalore
> I'm interested in seeing the media debate here, since I obviouslyI'm not sure what you want to debate about. Your post seems really
> have several opposing opinions about the matter...
clear that you think tv is stupid. You're certainly entitled to your
personal opinion. I don't think it's very unschoolish to impose your
opinions onto your children.
My personal opinion of tv? It's just another thing in our day. I
give it no more or less importance than anything else we do. Yes,
there are some tv shows I don't care to watch. Each of my family
members has preferences for tv shows. We also have preferences for
books, comics, food, drinks, music, games, movies, playing, working,
and any number of other topics! I can't imagine withholding anything
from my children simply because it is something I don't like.
> For that reason, I have forbidden TVs in my kids rooms, I thinkForbidden? Again, you're imposing your opinion and preference onto
> it's nearly a disorder to be unable to fall asleep in silence.
your children. I don't fall asleep to the tv, but neither do I like
falling asleep in absolute silence. It's unnerving and is a major
source of discomfort and distraction. I believe in each person being
able to choose how to fall asleep and respecting those choices even
if they aren't the same as mine. The issue between your husband and
yourself is simply another opportunity for people needing to learn to
compromise. It sounds like you don't want your children to become
used to falling asleep to the tv because in the future they may be
married to someone who doesn't like falling asleep the same way?
You say you value your quiet time as you fall asleep because it's a
time of reflection and peace for you. But that doesn't mean you can
get your children to feel the same way. This is just another one of
those things that they'll grow up knowing is Mom's thing and then
will move out and do their own thing. Why does it even have to be a
thing?
> I realize that my value-ing of that quiet time doesn't make me anyI think you're not being honest with yourself. Above, you said
> better or worse than him, and that my efforts to keep my kids from
> turning into "sleeping TV addicts" is one-sided and maybe his mom
> didn't create that, maybe she did- either way, it has nothing to
> do with my kids. I don't love him any less for it.
> Lisa
you've forbidden tvs in your children's rooms because of your
perception that your DH is a tv addict. If it has nothing to do with
the kids, why are you not giving them a chance to make their own
choices the way you've been able to do?
And my last thought is why you feel tv is an addiction. What about
other things that some people do a great deal of time because they
personally enjoy it? Some people exercise hours a day. Some people
read hours a day. Some people garden hours a day. Some people watch
tv hours a day. Again, tv is just another thing to do in a day. I
have seen this debate countless times and someone always posts web
links to studies that tv watching is not as harmful as others
believe. I don't have those links but they're likely easy to find if
you care to look. I personally think it's just another thing that
some parents like to control because they can. I met a woman at a
homeschool park day who was very proud of herself for forbidding her
children to read books in bed pretty much for the same reason you've
forbidden tv. I suppose that's her thing. I have an opinion of
that "thing" but I don't think it's right of me to impose that
opinion on her, you or anyone else.
Beth M.
Faith Void
For that reason, I have forbidden TVs in my kids rooms, I think
don't get the whole sleeping in silence thing. I have lived in a variety of
locations urban, rural, really rural. Heck I have even hitch hiked around
the country and slept in a bunch of weird places. I have never found
anywhere to be silent. In fact it is rarely ever quiet. We live in a small
town, population 500, maybe its 501 idk. We rarely have cars pass after dark
but there is always noise of some sort. There are animals domestics and
farm. we even have skunks from time to time but they aren't noisy :-) Still
it isn't silent. You would need to put ear things on to cover all noise. I
am much more impressed that my kids can fall asleep anywhere, really
*anywhere*. I use to take my dd in a sling to music shows starting when she
was tiny. She would fall asleep to thundering punk rock music, sweet and
content. She and I traveled around in our truck for a bit and she
would/could fall asleep anywhere doing anything. Sleep was just what you do
when you are tired, she didn't need anything more than me (then). For a
couple years she would fall asleep most nights watching TV, it relaxed her.
Now she prefers to read. I like that she knows herself and has the ability
to be flexible.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > it's nearly a disorder to be unable to fall asleep in silence.I won't even visit the myriad of issues that are within your post. I just
>
don't get the whole sleeping in silence thing. I have lived in a variety of
locations urban, rural, really rural. Heck I have even hitch hiked around
the country and slept in a bunch of weird places. I have never found
anywhere to be silent. In fact it is rarely ever quiet. We live in a small
town, population 500, maybe its 501 idk. We rarely have cars pass after dark
but there is always noise of some sort. There are animals domestics and
farm. we even have skunks from time to time but they aren't noisy :-) Still
it isn't silent. You would need to put ear things on to cover all noise. I
am much more impressed that my kids can fall asleep anywhere, really
*anywhere*. I use to take my dd in a sling to music shows starting when she
was tiny. She would fall asleep to thundering punk rock music, sweet and
content. She and I traveled around in our truck for a bit and she
would/could fall asleep anywhere doing anything. Sleep was just what you do
when you are tired, she didn't need anything more than me (then). For a
couple years she would fall asleep most nights watching TV, it relaxed her.
Now she prefers to read. I like that she knows herself and has the ability
to be flexible.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~
natural to have total silence in very many locations on earth!
Like we need to call anything else a "disorder". Sheesh. Any quirk or
trait gets labeled a disorder these days. I'm over it.
How about trusting that everyone is totally unique and can choose the
perfect sleep situation for themselves?
Ren
> > it's nearly a disorder to be unable to fall asleep in silence.~~HA! I think it's nearly a disorder to NEED total silence. It's not
natural to have total silence in very many locations on earth!
Like we need to call anything else a "disorder". Sheesh. Any quirk or
trait gets labeled a disorder these days. I'm over it.
How about trusting that everyone is totally unique and can choose the
perfect sleep situation for themselves?
Ren
Debra Rossing
As someone mentioned, silence is the "newer" thing since way back in the
long ago eat or be eaten times, total silence usually meant a predator
nearby because all the smaller creatures would go still to try to avoid
being some creature's midnight snack.
Plus, for some folks, TV acts as a white noise - not something to listen
to so much as something to block out other, more distracting noises. For
folks who have trouble sleeping with the TV on who share sleeping space
with TV white noise folks, maybe something like a fan or white noise
machine of some sort might work as a middle ground.
Deb
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long ago eat or be eaten times, total silence usually meant a predator
nearby because all the smaller creatures would go still to try to avoid
being some creature's midnight snack.
Plus, for some folks, TV acts as a white noise - not something to listen
to so much as something to block out other, more distracting noises. For
folks who have trouble sleeping with the TV on who share sleeping space
with TV white noise folks, maybe something like a fan or white noise
machine of some sort might work as a middle ground.
Deb
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina Bragdon
I can tell you TV is something that I have worried about off and on
on my unschooling journey, esp. when dd was around age 4 and getting
really interested in it. All the usual reasons...it would decrease
her attention span, turn her into a zombie, etc, affect her like all
the studies say. I am getting better at not panicking about it
though, although once a year or so I have my moments, LOL!
I had to really stop and think about what others were saying and see
it was true in my own situation too...
1)Dd does not LITERALLY watch it all day (Sandra Dodd does a good job
at her site with talking about people who make broad all or nothing
statements like this...we say this stuff like it is actually
literally true). She does other things too...comic book creating,
computer games, is more than willing to go out with me and ds/dh and
do other stuff, read, etc. The TV is just one more thing, very
attractive to her because she is a VERY visually oriented person in
her learning, and remembers EVERYTHING she sees. I can see that in
so many areas in how she learns (I am convinced that allowing her
interest in the computer and playing on Starfall.com with her plus of
course her brain being ready was a major factor in reading clicking
for her!) She also is big into computer right now.
2)I think the biggest advice I took from all those pro TV unschoolers
was to just swallow my fear (hard at first) and look at TV as a
bonding time with her. Now it is nice to sit and just cuddle on the
couch and watch, instead of looking at her thinking she is
doing "nothing". When I sit and watch with her, so many questions
and connections and learning moments come up and it can branch into
so many things.
3)Like others have said elsewhere in cyberspace, the TV studies are
done on schooled children, who may need an escape after all that
school. Also, no indication of if a parent is watching mindfully
with them or if they are plunked in front of it. I also wonder
in "those studies" how it is possible they watch 4-5 hours a day when
they have school to go to!
MOST IMPORTANTLY, I think the biggest thing I found, when I really
examined my thoughts about tv, was that the times when I worried or
found myself thinking that she does nothing all day but watch tv, was
that I felt this way because I hadn't truly taken time to connect
with her and BE with her...like being in the house and she does her
thing and I am doing mine. She was getting grumpy about lack of
connection, and I was about the TV The TV was just a convienient
scapegoat for those feelings. We have started making a list each
morning of 3-4 things that she wants to do with me that day. It has
been anything from playing our board games, to going to the library,
to baking cookies, to working on her comic strips, and yes, to
watching Fairly OddParents together or playing on Poptropica
together. Focusing on our relationship and just BEING together in
any activity including tv and computer is what is healing me from
those feelings that she "isn't learning anything" or unschooling
isn't working. Yes, she is 8 and her only writing output is comic
strips, or she doesn't like workbook math and is only JUST getting
comfortable playing the odd game, and maybe she would look miore like
a schooled kid (unfortunatley whose writing experiences say, are
coerced in many cases not done because it has meaning to them) in
these areas if she didn't watch tv, but her life is rich and full and
she is making her own unique learning connections, even if through
asking questions about what is on TV and then we get a book, or I see
it in her and ds imaginary play together.
I hope this helps any doubters or anyone on this journey of
deschooling our assumptions about tv.
Tina here in Manitoba Canada mom to Stephanie (8) and Jonathan (5)
--- In [email protected], "Tammy Brock" <tammy@...>
wrote:
on my unschooling journey, esp. when dd was around age 4 and getting
really interested in it. All the usual reasons...it would decrease
her attention span, turn her into a zombie, etc, affect her like all
the studies say. I am getting better at not panicking about it
though, although once a year or so I have my moments, LOL!
I had to really stop and think about what others were saying and see
it was true in my own situation too...
1)Dd does not LITERALLY watch it all day (Sandra Dodd does a good job
at her site with talking about people who make broad all or nothing
statements like this...we say this stuff like it is actually
literally true). She does other things too...comic book creating,
computer games, is more than willing to go out with me and ds/dh and
do other stuff, read, etc. The TV is just one more thing, very
attractive to her because she is a VERY visually oriented person in
her learning, and remembers EVERYTHING she sees. I can see that in
so many areas in how she learns (I am convinced that allowing her
interest in the computer and playing on Starfall.com with her plus of
course her brain being ready was a major factor in reading clicking
for her!) She also is big into computer right now.
2)I think the biggest advice I took from all those pro TV unschoolers
was to just swallow my fear (hard at first) and look at TV as a
bonding time with her. Now it is nice to sit and just cuddle on the
couch and watch, instead of looking at her thinking she is
doing "nothing". When I sit and watch with her, so many questions
and connections and learning moments come up and it can branch into
so many things.
3)Like others have said elsewhere in cyberspace, the TV studies are
done on schooled children, who may need an escape after all that
school. Also, no indication of if a parent is watching mindfully
with them or if they are plunked in front of it. I also wonder
in "those studies" how it is possible they watch 4-5 hours a day when
they have school to go to!
MOST IMPORTANTLY, I think the biggest thing I found, when I really
examined my thoughts about tv, was that the times when I worried or
found myself thinking that she does nothing all day but watch tv, was
that I felt this way because I hadn't truly taken time to connect
with her and BE with her...like being in the house and she does her
thing and I am doing mine. She was getting grumpy about lack of
connection, and I was about the TV The TV was just a convienient
scapegoat for those feelings. We have started making a list each
morning of 3-4 things that she wants to do with me that day. It has
been anything from playing our board games, to going to the library,
to baking cookies, to working on her comic strips, and yes, to
watching Fairly OddParents together or playing on Poptropica
together. Focusing on our relationship and just BEING together in
any activity including tv and computer is what is healing me from
those feelings that she "isn't learning anything" or unschooling
isn't working. Yes, she is 8 and her only writing output is comic
strips, or she doesn't like workbook math and is only JUST getting
comfortable playing the odd game, and maybe she would look miore like
a schooled kid (unfortunatley whose writing experiences say, are
coerced in many cases not done because it has meaning to them) in
these areas if she didn't watch tv, but her life is rich and full and
she is making her own unique learning connections, even if through
asking questions about what is on TV and then we get a book, or I see
it in her and ds imaginary play together.
I hope this helps any doubters or anyone on this journey of
deschooling our assumptions about tv.
Tina here in Manitoba Canada mom to Stephanie (8) and Jonathan (5)
--- In [email protected], "Tammy Brock" <tammy@...>
wrote:
>bothered
>
>
> I am currently listening to a book where this topic comes up and it
> me so I wanted to see what others have to say on the subject. Itbothered me
> because the assumption was if you like to play video games andwatch TV then
> you need constant interaction and distraction. He said when a childcomes
> into a place, he takes off his Ipod and needs something else toreplace it
> or he'll go to sleep. I guess its another example of our all ornothing
> society.
>
>
>
> Tammy
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
k
>Ok. I had to comment. School does a lot less than the above.
> Yes, she is 8 and her only writing output is comic
> strips, or she doesn't like workbook math and is only JUST getting
> comfortable playing the odd game, and maybe she would look miore like
> a schooled kid
>
I went through all of high school, community college (2 year) and 2
universities. I got a diploma and a BA degree. Granted, I hated school
(except Kindergarten and 1st & 2nd grade) until I got to ETSU in Tennessee.
Even there, people were telling me an art degree would be useless. I felt
that an English degree would be a dead end for me. Good thing I listened to
me. I found painting, sculpture, metalworking, bookmaking, fiber art,
printmaking, just to name a few. I had a hard time picking a concentration
because I didn't like the painting area's professor's painting style or way
of talking to the students... awful critiquing methods.
In grade school and high school I wanted to write but never did. School is
all about boring busy work that doesn't prepare a student to do what they're
interested in. It keeps them occupied until the day they can finally take
up important work. Usually that means forget about your interests in favor
of working a dead end job of little interest to oneself. I didn't have time
or mental space to think about having comic book output.
I was lucky. Somehow I was able to ignore the voices telling me *not* to
follow my interests and did what I wanted to do. That's not typical. Many
people in school have heard the message that their interests don't matter
for so long that they believe it and have no idea what they're interested in
anymore.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...>
wrote:
bob and patrick were "parents" and had the whole "role" thing going- she
said to me "its just a show about gay guys"--- I said mom it is not that
was just the one episode but it was obvious she missed the whole point
of the show-
Julie
www.the-life-of-fun.blogspot.com
<http://www.the-life-of-fun.blogspot.com>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wrote:
>this is so true- my mom watched the episode of sponge bob where sponge
>its not
> terribly realistic to look at a single episode of something and make
> decisions about the work as a whole.
>
>
bob and patrick were "parents" and had the whole "role" thing going- she
said to me "its just a show about gay guys"--- I said mom it is not that
was just the one episode but it was obvious she missed the whole point
of the show-
Julie
www.the-life-of-fun.blogspot.com
<http://www.the-life-of-fun.blogspot.com>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]