Still too many "no"s
almadoing
We have been moving into unschooling for more than a year now but I
am feeling very discouraged. Now that I am trying to say yes, I
realise just how many "no"s my sons (age 6 and 3) are hearing. I am
still sounding like the mainstream parent I don't want to be
(nagging, shouting, belittling) while feeling that the increasing
yeses are, in many instances, making my life very hard.
I am trying to question each "no" as to its arbitrariness, and have
stopped a lot. These are typical of those that get through
· not to force the door against its hinges
· not to wave the broom above their heads indoors
· not to touch the walls with paint on their hands
· not to slosh gallons of water out of the tub
· not to open the oven door
· not to leave the fridge door open
· not to hit
· etc etc etc
I explain why these things are important but I'm being ignored and
sneered at. The other day we were out and my children were playing in
the fountain (not disallowed by the town). DS1 (6) was deliberately
splashing passers by. When I approached the fountain and called his
name to come and talk to me he ran away laughing. I felt so out of
control and helpless I just wept. Later when I talked about it with
him he told me he ran away because he knew I was just going to tell
him off.
Things that should feel positive just don't. Instead of cooking three
meals a day I am always preparing snacks and different meals for
everyone. Instead of having time to recharge in the evening, the
children are still up beyond my saturation point.
I realise as I'm writing this that I am feeling resentful I am
doing everything I can, feeling overwhelmed, and it's not enough it
feels like I can never satisfy them. And however much I am trying to
respect their own autonomy they do not respect (OK obey) the things
I do ask.
I am finding it very hard to justify to others (eg my mother) my move
towards unschooling because it does not seem to be making my family
any happier. DH is on board but feels much the same as me. I'm
worried that we are just not creative enough, or energetic enough or
good enough to offer our children this lifestyle.
I can hear the negativity in my voice, and I am so churned up to have
to admit this, but I feel far from living joyfully.
Where am I going wrong?
Alison
With DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
am feeling very discouraged. Now that I am trying to say yes, I
realise just how many "no"s my sons (age 6 and 3) are hearing. I am
still sounding like the mainstream parent I don't want to be
(nagging, shouting, belittling) while feeling that the increasing
yeses are, in many instances, making my life very hard.
I am trying to question each "no" as to its arbitrariness, and have
stopped a lot. These are typical of those that get through
· not to force the door against its hinges
· not to wave the broom above their heads indoors
· not to touch the walls with paint on their hands
· not to slosh gallons of water out of the tub
· not to open the oven door
· not to leave the fridge door open
· not to hit
· etc etc etc
I explain why these things are important but I'm being ignored and
sneered at. The other day we were out and my children were playing in
the fountain (not disallowed by the town). DS1 (6) was deliberately
splashing passers by. When I approached the fountain and called his
name to come and talk to me he ran away laughing. I felt so out of
control and helpless I just wept. Later when I talked about it with
him he told me he ran away because he knew I was just going to tell
him off.
Things that should feel positive just don't. Instead of cooking three
meals a day I am always preparing snacks and different meals for
everyone. Instead of having time to recharge in the evening, the
children are still up beyond my saturation point.
I realise as I'm writing this that I am feeling resentful I am
doing everything I can, feeling overwhelmed, and it's not enough it
feels like I can never satisfy them. And however much I am trying to
respect their own autonomy they do not respect (OK obey) the things
I do ask.
I am finding it very hard to justify to others (eg my mother) my move
towards unschooling because it does not seem to be making my family
any happier. DH is on board but feels much the same as me. I'm
worried that we are just not creative enough, or energetic enough or
good enough to offer our children this lifestyle.
I can hear the negativity in my voice, and I am so churned up to have
to admit this, but I feel far from living joyfully.
Where am I going wrong?
Alison
With DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
Bekki Kirby
I don't have answers or suggestions, Alison, but I wanted to let you know
you're not alone. I could have written your post... except my dh is not on
board at all, and I feel like I'm running out of time to "prove" that this
can work.
Our family isn't happy at all- it FEELS like our 3-yo son is calling all the
shots, and everyone is getting so frustrated and unhappy that we're snapping
at each other.
I want a house full of love, but I don't know how to get there.
Bekki
--
"Do not ask what the world needs. Instead, ask what makes you come alive.
Because what the world needs is more people who have come alive."
--Thurmond Whitman
Mother of three angels and two pirates
Kayla (9)
Hunter (b. 8/9/03, d. 8/22/03)
Jo (misc 1/15/04)
Jared (3)
Camelia (b. 12/16/07, d. 12/10/07)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you're not alone. I could have written your post... except my dh is not on
board at all, and I feel like I'm running out of time to "prove" that this
can work.
Our family isn't happy at all- it FEELS like our 3-yo son is calling all the
shots, and everyone is getting so frustrated and unhappy that we're snapping
at each other.
I want a house full of love, but I don't know how to get there.
Bekki
--
"Do not ask what the world needs. Instead, ask what makes you come alive.
Because what the world needs is more people who have come alive."
--Thurmond Whitman
Mother of three angels and two pirates
Kayla (9)
Hunter (b. 8/9/03, d. 8/22/03)
Jo (misc 1/15/04)
Jared (3)
Camelia (b. 12/16/07, d. 12/10/07)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
This is not a "how to" post about unschooling but I think it's important to
keep in mind -why- as to unschooling. For some, like me, it's vital to keep
our motivations to unschool our children ever before us.
It takes time for kids to believe parents. You're changing parenting styles
midstream. They haven't welcomed it because they don't see what your
efforts can mean to them. They're probably still hearing the "no's" more
and finding the "yes's" perplexing, rather than part of a plan to become a
more peaceful loving parent/child. After all, the majority of their lives
have been spent very differently.
It takes time to learn an unconventional way to parent. I think it's easy
to think that if only parenting could operate more or less automatically,
things would be great. Why isn't it like that? Well, for instance, "no's"
depend on the adults in the family to gang up on the kids and be
"consistent" in order to function. Many adults could do authoritative
styles of parenting without ever doing any thinking. It would be easy
because they know it like the back of their hand and they wouldn't get any
resistance from other adults around them about their parenting style. In
fact, I would get much better acceptance from others in my family if I were
more authoritarian. My conscience would hurt until it I got it dampened
down enough to tolerate, but other than that I could do it.
Gentle parenting and unschooling take many people quite a bit of effort.
More than others who were raised similarly to that style. It can be tons
more than I want to do at times. Many times I find that I flat out don't
know what I'm doing. Yet I'm very motivated and I also want to keep myself
motivated. So I keep reading on this list and others because I want to
learn differently than I grew up knowing about parenting.
Parenting is like a lot of things we might put effort into, like learning to
fingerpick on the guitar or banjo or mandolin, and those skills can take
years and years to accomplish. Unschooling doesn't necessarily take long
but since it isn't easy for me I want to keep after it. It IS a lot for me
AND after doing it for a while I have been able to see that it's worth it.
Sometimes "no" is fine word but overused it can become a very difficult
thing to deal with in unschooling because that word represents how attached
we are to controlling others instead of relating to them. And so learning
to relate to others more is a lot like this quote: * Do everything with a
mind that lets go. If you let go a little you will have a little peace; if
you let go a lot you will have a lot of peace; if you let go completely you
will have complete peace. *
We can come to wholelife unschooling with the thought that it's just like
authoritarian parenting except that parents say "yes" instead of "no." As
though it were another 1-2-3 method. It's not. Authoritarian parents never
need a reason for saying no. Parents who are unschooling are choosing to
understand and talk about why they're saying "yes" and why they're saying
"no."
~Katherine
keep in mind -why- as to unschooling. For some, like me, it's vital to keep
our motivations to unschool our children ever before us.
It takes time for kids to believe parents. You're changing parenting styles
midstream. They haven't welcomed it because they don't see what your
efforts can mean to them. They're probably still hearing the "no's" more
and finding the "yes's" perplexing, rather than part of a plan to become a
more peaceful loving parent/child. After all, the majority of their lives
have been spent very differently.
It takes time to learn an unconventional way to parent. I think it's easy
to think that if only parenting could operate more or less automatically,
things would be great. Why isn't it like that? Well, for instance, "no's"
depend on the adults in the family to gang up on the kids and be
"consistent" in order to function. Many adults could do authoritative
styles of parenting without ever doing any thinking. It would be easy
because they know it like the back of their hand and they wouldn't get any
resistance from other adults around them about their parenting style. In
fact, I would get much better acceptance from others in my family if I were
more authoritarian. My conscience would hurt until it I got it dampened
down enough to tolerate, but other than that I could do it.
Gentle parenting and unschooling take many people quite a bit of effort.
More than others who were raised similarly to that style. It can be tons
more than I want to do at times. Many times I find that I flat out don't
know what I'm doing. Yet I'm very motivated and I also want to keep myself
motivated. So I keep reading on this list and others because I want to
learn differently than I grew up knowing about parenting.
Parenting is like a lot of things we might put effort into, like learning to
fingerpick on the guitar or banjo or mandolin, and those skills can take
years and years to accomplish. Unschooling doesn't necessarily take long
but since it isn't easy for me I want to keep after it. It IS a lot for me
AND after doing it for a while I have been able to see that it's worth it.
Sometimes "no" is fine word but overused it can become a very difficult
thing to deal with in unschooling because that word represents how attached
we are to controlling others instead of relating to them. And so learning
to relate to others more is a lot like this quote: * Do everything with a
mind that lets go. If you let go a little you will have a little peace; if
you let go a lot you will have a lot of peace; if you let go completely you
will have complete peace. *
We can come to wholelife unschooling with the thought that it's just like
authoritarian parenting except that parents say "yes" instead of "no." As
though it were another 1-2-3 method. It's not. Authoritarian parents never
need a reason for saying no. Parents who are unschooling are choosing to
understand and talk about why they're saying "yes" and why they're saying
"no."
~Katherine
On 8/29/08, almadoing <almadoing@...> wrote:
>
> We have been moving into unschooling for more than a year now but I
> am feeling very discouraged. Now that I am trying to say yes, I
> realise just how many "no"s my sons (age 6 and 3) are hearing. I am
> still sounding like the mainstream parent I don't want to be
> (nagging, shouting, belittling) while feeling that the increasing
> yeses are, in many instances, making my life very hard.
>
> I am trying to question each "no" as to its arbitrariness, and have
> stopped a lot. These are typical of those that get through
> � not to force the door against its hinges
> � not to wave the broom above their heads indoors
> � not to touch the walls with paint on their hands
> � not to slosh gallons of water out of the tub
> � not to open the oven door
> � not to leave the fridge door open
> � not to hit
> � etc etc etc
>
> I explain why these things are important but I'm being ignored and
> sneered at. The other day we were out and my children were playing in
> the fountain (not disallowed by the town). DS1 (6) was deliberately
> splashing passers by. When I approached the fountain and called his
> name to come and talk to me he ran away laughing. I felt so out of
> control and helpless I just wept. Later when I talked about it with
> him he told me he ran away because he knew I was just going to tell
> him off.
>
> Things that should feel positive just don't. Instead of cooking three
> meals a day I am always preparing snacks and different meals for
> everyone. Instead of having time to recharge in the evening, the
> children are still up beyond my saturation point.
>
> I realise as I'm writing this that I am feeling resentful � I am
> doing everything I can, feeling overwhelmed, and it's not enough � it
> feels like I can never satisfy them. And however much I am trying to
> respect their own autonomy they do not respect (OK � obey) the things
> I do ask.
>
> I am finding it very hard to justify to others (eg my mother) my move
> towards unschooling because it does not seem to be making my family
> any happier. DH is on board but feels much the same as me. I'm
> worried that we are just not creative enough, or energetic enough or
> good enough to offer our children this lifestyle.
>
> I can hear the negativity in my voice, and I am so churned up to have
> to admit this, but I feel far from living joyfully.
>
> Where am I going wrong?
>
> Alison
> With DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~* Do everything with a mind that lets go. If you let go a little you
will have a little peace; if you let go a lot you will have a lot of
peace; if you let go completely you will have complete peace. *~~
Including the "letting go" of expectations. Expectations about what
behavior will look like. Expectations about how activities will go.
Expectations about getting to some "there" that does not exist.
Jalen/Scott has been raised AP parented from birth. If my expectations
centered around our interactions looking peaceful and joyful all the
time, I'd be really disappointed. Sometimes it's been really hard to
encourage a peaceful, gentle reality and have a child that is
angry/intense etc... It is what it is. He's got his own learning
journey that looks nothing like my illusory "ideal".:)
I'm glad. Because he's helped me learn more about BEING peace than any
other human being on this planet!
You're transitioning. There will be stumbling. There will be mistakes
(really called"learning-takes" according to Kelly) and you will find
your way.
Instead of trying to change everything at once, why not slowly relax
into it. If you see a door about to get broken, put a stop to it.
Stopping harmful activities can happen with respect to the individual.
"Look, if we push the door too hard that way, it stresses these
hinges". Depending on the child and their receptiveness, it is just
another thing to be curious about!
Instead of trying to control the behavior, find a place where their
behavior is naturally appropriate. Maybe they aren't ready for water
play in a group setting. Maybe you need to find ways for them to have
that play at home. So much of the time parents try to alter the child
to fit the environment, when they could much more easily find an
environment that fits the child.:)
I'll be talking about all of this at L&L in my "Mindful Parenting"
talk and I really need to get busy with that, so I can't write more at
the moment.
I think looking at some "ideal" to achieve can really set parents back
when their families don't meet that "ideal" image they have in their
heads. Be ok with the struggle, hug your kids when they frustrate you
and you WILL be creating a home filled with love and joy. Love and joy
and fights and mess and all the stuff life is made of.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
will have a little peace; if you let go a lot you will have a lot of
peace; if you let go completely you will have complete peace. *~~
Including the "letting go" of expectations. Expectations about what
behavior will look like. Expectations about how activities will go.
Expectations about getting to some "there" that does not exist.
Jalen/Scott has been raised AP parented from birth. If my expectations
centered around our interactions looking peaceful and joyful all the
time, I'd be really disappointed. Sometimes it's been really hard to
encourage a peaceful, gentle reality and have a child that is
angry/intense etc... It is what it is. He's got his own learning
journey that looks nothing like my illusory "ideal".:)
I'm glad. Because he's helped me learn more about BEING peace than any
other human being on this planet!
You're transitioning. There will be stumbling. There will be mistakes
(really called"learning-takes" according to Kelly) and you will find
your way.
Instead of trying to change everything at once, why not slowly relax
into it. If you see a door about to get broken, put a stop to it.
Stopping harmful activities can happen with respect to the individual.
"Look, if we push the door too hard that way, it stresses these
hinges". Depending on the child and their receptiveness, it is just
another thing to be curious about!
Instead of trying to control the behavior, find a place where their
behavior is naturally appropriate. Maybe they aren't ready for water
play in a group setting. Maybe you need to find ways for them to have
that play at home. So much of the time parents try to alter the child
to fit the environment, when they could much more easily find an
environment that fits the child.:)
I'll be talking about all of this at L&L in my "Mindful Parenting"
talk and I really need to get busy with that, so I can't write more at
the moment.
I think looking at some "ideal" to achieve can really set parents back
when their families don't meet that "ideal" image they have in their
heads. Be ok with the struggle, hug your kids when they frustrate you
and you WILL be creating a home filled with love and joy. Love and joy
and fights and mess and all the stuff life is made of.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Melissa Gray
I can certainly hear your frustration, and disappointment that this
isn't working as well as you hoped. The resentment probably doesn't
help, but you might look at it this way, you aren't here to satisfy
them. I have unschooling friends in real life who KNOCK themselves
out trying to make their kids happy, and you really just cannot. Part
of the problem is that six and three and still so very young, and you
aren't being sneered at, probably, they are probably just clueless as
to why what they are doing would upset you so. Can I offer what I
might do in some of the situations you mentioned? It's easier for me
to say what I would have done, I know it's not easy to do it,
especially when you are still making the transition, we've only been
unschooling for three years. I guess when we started we had a
newborn, 2yo, 4yo, 5yo, 6yo, 8yo, and 10yo. So I really do understand.
For example, forcing the door against the hinge: ask yourself why?
What are they trying to learn there? Experimenting to see what
happens to the door, or what happens with YOU? If it's you, then it's
even more important to retain your cool. I'm wondering how many of
these things they persist on just because they are testing to see
your reaction. They don't buy the whole unschooling thing because the
consistency isn't there. For example, for the door, have dh nail a
strip of wood in the jam to keep it from swinging the opposite way.
All it took was breaking one cabinet door for our girls to realize
why they shouldn't bend it. I said a few times, giving them
knowledge, "Bending that back will break it, and I'd rather it didn't
get broken" When it broke, I was upset, but I just took the door off
the hinges and put it in the garage for dh to glue back together.
Lesson learned. Now the boys have bent their hinges swinging on the
door. It doesn't quite fit into the jam anymore. Lesson learned. They
don't really care. Dh and I figure when they get to be teens and care
more about privacy, we'll replace the hinges anyway.
I don't know, when I started going through your list, it just seemed
overwhelming. I think if you are thinking ALL these things aren't
working, it's too much. Honestly, there's just one thing wrong here,
and it's the trust. But I'd ask myself, why can't they open the oven
door? Because it's hot? Why not give them the knowledge and the
opportunity to do it safely? "Hey, that's hot. If you want to open
it, we need hot pot holders. Talk about how the heat feels on their
bodies when they are close, and how far away they stand to not feel
it anymore. Get a cheap oven thermometer and look at it when the door
is first opened, and after it's been opened a while. Try to bake a
cake with the door open and time how long it takes. What's the cost
of a little electricity for them to SEE the difference? Same for the
fridge. It just takes some creative planning to see the value in
everything that they are doing. Trust me, the guys were just throwing
a baseball and broke the glass out of a picture frame. I could have
been upset about it, and made it about MY feelings and MY stuff, but
instead we cleaned it up together and they haven't thrown a ball in
the house since.
One more thing, I agree that they shouldn't be splashing passersby.
Completely. What I would have done was to offer alternatives..."Hey,
can you splash ME?" or "How high can you splash?" "Can you splash the
statue in the middle and get it really wet?" Make it more fun to do
something besides splash other people. Just an idea.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
isn't working as well as you hoped. The resentment probably doesn't
help, but you might look at it this way, you aren't here to satisfy
them. I have unschooling friends in real life who KNOCK themselves
out trying to make their kids happy, and you really just cannot. Part
of the problem is that six and three and still so very young, and you
aren't being sneered at, probably, they are probably just clueless as
to why what they are doing would upset you so. Can I offer what I
might do in some of the situations you mentioned? It's easier for me
to say what I would have done, I know it's not easy to do it,
especially when you are still making the transition, we've only been
unschooling for three years. I guess when we started we had a
newborn, 2yo, 4yo, 5yo, 6yo, 8yo, and 10yo. So I really do understand.
For example, forcing the door against the hinge: ask yourself why?
What are they trying to learn there? Experimenting to see what
happens to the door, or what happens with YOU? If it's you, then it's
even more important to retain your cool. I'm wondering how many of
these things they persist on just because they are testing to see
your reaction. They don't buy the whole unschooling thing because the
consistency isn't there. For example, for the door, have dh nail a
strip of wood in the jam to keep it from swinging the opposite way.
All it took was breaking one cabinet door for our girls to realize
why they shouldn't bend it. I said a few times, giving them
knowledge, "Bending that back will break it, and I'd rather it didn't
get broken" When it broke, I was upset, but I just took the door off
the hinges and put it in the garage for dh to glue back together.
Lesson learned. Now the boys have bent their hinges swinging on the
door. It doesn't quite fit into the jam anymore. Lesson learned. They
don't really care. Dh and I figure when they get to be teens and care
more about privacy, we'll replace the hinges anyway.
I don't know, when I started going through your list, it just seemed
overwhelming. I think if you are thinking ALL these things aren't
working, it's too much. Honestly, there's just one thing wrong here,
and it's the trust. But I'd ask myself, why can't they open the oven
door? Because it's hot? Why not give them the knowledge and the
opportunity to do it safely? "Hey, that's hot. If you want to open
it, we need hot pot holders. Talk about how the heat feels on their
bodies when they are close, and how far away they stand to not feel
it anymore. Get a cheap oven thermometer and look at it when the door
is first opened, and after it's been opened a while. Try to bake a
cake with the door open and time how long it takes. What's the cost
of a little electricity for them to SEE the difference? Same for the
fridge. It just takes some creative planning to see the value in
everything that they are doing. Trust me, the guys were just throwing
a baseball and broke the glass out of a picture frame. I could have
been upset about it, and made it about MY feelings and MY stuff, but
instead we cleaned it up together and they haven't thrown a ball in
the house since.
One more thing, I agree that they shouldn't be splashing passersby.
Completely. What I would have done was to offer alternatives..."Hey,
can you splash ME?" or "How high can you splash?" "Can you splash the
statue in the middle and get it really wet?" Make it more fun to do
something besides splash other people. Just an idea.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On Aug 29, 2008, at 7:29 AM, almadoing wrote:
> We have been moving into unschooling for more than a year now but I
> am feeling very discouraged. Now that I am trying to say yes, I
> realise just how many "no"s my sons (age 6 and 3) are hearing. I am
> still sounding like the mainstream parent I don't want to be
> (nagging, shouting, belittling) while feeling that the increasing
> yeses are, in many instances, making my life very hard.
>
> I am trying to question each "no" as to its arbitrariness, and have
> stopped a lot. These are typical of those that get through
> � not to force the door against its hinges
> � not to wave the broom above their heads indoors
> � not to touch the walls with paint on their hands
> � not to slosh gallons of water out of the tub
> � not to open the oven door
> � not to leave the fridge door open
> � not to hit
> � etc etc etc
>
> I explain why these things are important but I'm being ignored and
> sneered at. The other day we were out and my children were playing in
> the fountain (not disallowed by the town). DS1 (6) was deliberately
> splashing passers by. When I approached the fountain and called his
> name to come and talk to me he ran away laughing. I felt so out of
> control and helpless I just wept. Later when I talked about it with
> him he told me he ran away because he knew I was just going to tell
> him off.
>
> Things that should feel positive just don't. Instead of cooking three
> meals a day I am always preparing snacks and different meals for
> everyone. Instead of having time to recharge in the evening, the
> children are still up beyond my saturation point.
>
> I realise as I'm writing this that I am feeling resentful � I am
> doing everything I can, feeling overwhelmed, and it's not enough � it
> feels like I can never satisfy them. And however much I am trying to
> respect their own autonomy they do not respect (OK � obey) the things
> I do ask.
>
> I am finding it very hard to justify to others (eg my mother) my move
> towards unschooling because it does not seem to be making my family
> any happier. DH is on board but feels much the same as me. I'm
> worried that we are just not creative enough, or energetic enough or
> good enough to offer our children this lifestyle.
>
> I can hear the negativity in my voice, and I am so churned up to have
> to admit this, but I feel far from living joyfully.
>
> Where am I going wrong?
>
> Alison
> With DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
There is SO much synchronicity going on this morning that this thread started! I read Scott Noelle's Daily Groove yesterday and today and knew I had to post them and ask about them. I am experiencing much of what the OP wrote. Still shouting, still feeling overwhelmed, still not experiencing the environment I believe is possible for our home. Katherine said that it can take years to learn to parent well, but I feel like I don't have years. My girls are 3 1/2, almost 4, and I feel like I'm on the clock to get it better NOW. So each night I go to bed deciding I'm going to do it better, and each day doesn't look much different. Ryan is away for 3 weeks with work, and we're right in the middle, which adds some stress for sure.
Okay, here are the Daily Grooves:
*******************************************************
:: Have a NICE day! ::
Most of us have been thoroughly trained to be "nice."
The 2-part Rule of Nice goes like this...
Part 1: Only say and do things that please others.
Part 2: If you feel like saying or doing something
that might possibly displease someone, see Part 1.
So, to obey the Rule of Nice at all times, you have to get pretty good at *not* being authentic. But being inauthentic is not very nice, so the only way to win this game is not to play it!
Children are naturally authentic, which means they often aren't "nice." You're supposed to pressure them to obey the Rule of Nice, but wouldn't it be nicer to let them inspire *you* to be more authentic?
:: Have a NICE day! (Part 2) ::
Authentic children, knowing their inherent worthiness, shamelessly ask for everything they want. Parents who've bought into the "Rule of Nice" feel obliged to fulfill their children's wishes and eventually feel overwhelmed.
At this point, many "nice" parents snap and become mean... followed by guilt... leading to more false niceness. And the nice-mean-guilt cycle repeats.
Some parents find relief by persuading their children to want less. This seems benign but the end result is the children believing there is something wrong with
them: "I want something... but I shouldn't want it...
I must be unworthy."
Lasting relief for everyone begins with quitting the niceness game. When you don't "have to" be nice, you may discover that you *want* to be nice!
Even if you choose not to "give in," you can stand in a place of *knowing* that they -- and you -- are worthy of satisfaction. That's the place where creativity flourishes.
*****************************************************
So all that he says makes complete sense to me, and sounds ideal, but HOW do I get there? I spoke to someone the other day who is doing phone counselling with Naomi Aldort...is that the way to go?? I was raised with a very authoritative and controlling mother, and mindful, respectful, parenting does not come naturally for me at all, it's hard. But I SO want to be doing this better!
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Okay, here are the Daily Grooves:
*******************************************************
:: Have a NICE day! ::
Most of us have been thoroughly trained to be "nice."
The 2-part Rule of Nice goes like this...
Part 1: Only say and do things that please others.
Part 2: If you feel like saying or doing something
that might possibly displease someone, see Part 1.
So, to obey the Rule of Nice at all times, you have to get pretty good at *not* being authentic. But being inauthentic is not very nice, so the only way to win this game is not to play it!
Children are naturally authentic, which means they often aren't "nice." You're supposed to pressure them to obey the Rule of Nice, but wouldn't it be nicer to let them inspire *you* to be more authentic?
:: Have a NICE day! (Part 2) ::
Authentic children, knowing their inherent worthiness, shamelessly ask for everything they want. Parents who've bought into the "Rule of Nice" feel obliged to fulfill their children's wishes and eventually feel overwhelmed.
At this point, many "nice" parents snap and become mean... followed by guilt... leading to more false niceness. And the nice-mean-guilt cycle repeats.
Some parents find relief by persuading their children to want less. This seems benign but the end result is the children believing there is something wrong with
them: "I want something... but I shouldn't want it...
I must be unworthy."
Lasting relief for everyone begins with quitting the niceness game. When you don't "have to" be nice, you may discover that you *want* to be nice!
Even if you choose not to "give in," you can stand in a place of *knowing* that they -- and you -- are worthy of satisfaction. That's the place where creativity flourishes.
*****************************************************
So all that he says makes complete sense to me, and sounds ideal, but HOW do I get there? I spoke to someone the other day who is doing phone counselling with Naomi Aldort...is that the way to go?? I was raised with a very authoritative and controlling mother, and mindful, respectful, parenting does not come naturally for me at all, it's hard. But I SO want to be doing this better!
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
I think you need to learn the arts of overlooking, redirecting, and
setting the stage.
step in and move them on to something else.
glass chandelier about to be destroyed <G>, then say, "Hey, let's
march out the door with that. Hup two three four...."
around with paint on their hands.
Set up painting activities outdoors - or in the bathtub (that's what I
used to do). If they are painting in the house, be right there to get
things for them so they never need to get up. Or put stools up in
front of the kitchen counter right next to the sink for them to sit
and paint. Kitchens and bathroom walls and cabinets are made to be
washed off - so a little paint won't hurt them - you just wipe them
off. Mine sat on the kitchen floor for messy activities - and we have
a small narrow kitchen. It was still better there.
of fun - make it possible for them to slosh a lot. That's a sweet gift
- water play is SO good! Take pictures.
doing it in 15 years. Save yourself 15 years of nagging and just know
that it will once in a while get left open. That's life. Get over it.
to resolve problems. Don't talk about it too much - I get the feeling
they've already learned to tune you out, anyway. Use few words and
confident, easy actions. One kid is in the process of hitting another?
Step in, wrap your arms around him as firmly as you have to and as
gently as you can and say, "Hey, sweetie, what's the deal?" LISTEN to
the hitter - he is frustrated to the point of hitting. That's
significant. We could talk a lot more about this, but the point is
that there is much more to do than say, "No."
unlikely.
wanting to point out that you are thinking in terms of what NOT to do
and what is NOT allowed. You can develop your positivity by reframing
your thinking - what "CAN" we do?
expecting to get splashed? Maybe this is not really a good set up and
you should avoid it.
problem to occur and you walked away from it? Be more attentive and
present.
control him. I doubt that very much. He's a kid - he's having fun.
But, you're thinking in terms of who is in control, who has power.
feel out of control and helpless.
trouble."
I think you have to set up their world for them to be successful so
they can't get "in trouble." That is my suggestion to you - to think
about how to do that.
"Should" cook three meals a day was one of those "shoulds" we dropped
a LONG time ago. REVEL in the grazing - change your way of thinking
about cooking and food. Plan ahead for the family to graze on the good
stuff you've prepared. Make what they like and have it ready when
they're ready for it. The point is to have good (healthy and good-
tasting enjoyable) foods, right? There is nothing sacred about three
meals per day - it isn't even the healthiest way to eat. Don't just
let it go - get INTO the alternatives. Figure out how to do this -
good practice at being creative and thinking outside the box.
of evenings as your recharging time, and resenting it that you're not
getting that time, focus on getting chances to recharge your own
batteries at other times - especially times that INCLUDE the kids!
Watch a movie - watch some silly tv show. Get into the fountain WITH
them (okay - it is in public, maybe that's too undignified for you -
but go to a pool, instead). Read good books aloud. Cuddle. Also - take
1-minute vacations. Focus on those couple of minutes you get to
yourself throughout the day - there are many more of them than you
think, but you're ignoring them because they're so short. Instead -
pay attention and spend 30 seconds deep breathing. Wash your face with
something that smells really good. Put some really nice hand lotion at
the sink - you can massage your own hands and arms for 30 seconds. I
like the Body Splash that they sell at Bath and Body Works - I spray
it sort of into the hair in my direction and stand in the mist for a
second or two. Refreshing moment. Have a glass of cold water - enjoy
it, savor it. In other words, take care of yourself in the little
moments between other things.
like, I suppose. And the resentment is that they aren't getting with
the program (YOUR program). You're doing your part - they're not
responding like they are supposed to, right?
from a different perspective. It is like you're currently looking
through lenses that make the world look like it is filled with power
struggles - you're "seeing" who is in control, who is being
respectful, who is being obedient, who is in charge, who is running
things, who is being listened to, etc.
Maybe try this mental/physical trick. Either do it physically, if
possible, or imagine doing it. Stand "beside" your child - facing the
same direction. You are a team. You are NOT competitors or
adversaries. Physically stand next to each other - don't "face off."
Don't look into his eyes - (I know - goes against conventional wisdom)
- glaring into someone's eyes is threatening and hostile.
ASSUME the child wants to feel good and that you want to support that.
Act like you KNOW it is true.
When they were splashing passersby, you were embarrassed and angry at
them for not knowing better and making you seem like a bad parent. You
thought about what those passersby would be thinking about the parent
of those bratty children. And, maybe, you thought things like,
"They're so unsocialized, rude, uncaring....what kind of people will
they be when they grow up?"
How could you have thought/been different? I'm not saying let them run
wild and be a big rude inconvenience to other people in the world. It
isn't a choice of that versus control them, though.
If, instead, you were thinking, "Wow, you guys are having SO much fun
in that fountain. We should come at a time when other people won't be
going by so you can splash as much as you want. I wonder when would be
a good time? I wonder if there are other places to play in water like
this? Maybe we should plan a trip to a water park? Or, gosh, do you
think we could set up a mini-water park in our own yard? Have you guys
ever played on a slip-n-slide?"
Can you imagine that saying these kinds of things to them would create
an entirely different atmosphere and engender a lot more cooperation
with you than you lecturing them about how rude it is to splash other
people and how those people walking by didn't like it and blah blah
blah. If they expected cool ideas to come out of your mouth, they'd
come running when you called their name, not run the other way.
know you need to be more create and more pro-active. My experience is
that those who worry about this are the ones who CAN do it!
about you and the boys. Work on thinking of yourself as their
supporter. Maybe instead of thinking in terms of "not saying no" -
think of more and more ways to say yes. Try to avoid saying no
directly - use diversion tactics more often.
-pam
setting the stage.
>Simply distract them. Don't bother to explain about the hinges, just
> · not to force the door against its hinges
step in and move them on to something else.
>If they aren't about to smash something - overlook it. If you have a
> · not to wave the broom above their heads indoors
glass chandelier about to be destroyed <G>, then say, "Hey, let's
march out the door with that. Hup two three four...."
>Set the stage so that there isn't much likelihood of them wandering
> · not to touch the walls with paint on their hands
around with paint on their hands.
Set up painting activities outdoors - or in the bathtub (that's what I
used to do). If they are painting in the house, be right there to get
things for them so they never need to get up. Or put stools up in
front of the kitchen counter right next to the sink for them to sit
and paint. Kitchens and bathroom walls and cabinets are made to be
washed off - so a little paint won't hurt them - you just wipe them
off. Mine sat on the kitchen floor for messy activities - and we have
a small narrow kitchen. It was still better there.
>Why not? Put a lot of towels on the floor. We used our tub for a lot
> · not to slosh gallons of water out of the tub
of fun - make it possible for them to slosh a lot. That's a sweet gift
- water play is SO good! Take pictures.
>Help them open it safely - I'm assuming they're curious. Encourage that.
> · not to open the oven door
>Just shut it. If you start nagging about that now, you'll still be
> · not to leave the fridge door open
doing it in 15 years. Save yourself 15 years of nagging and just know
that it will once in a while get left open. That's life. Get over it.
>Help them with the specific problem. Help them find alternative ways
> · not to hit
to resolve problems. Don't talk about it too much - I get the feeling
they've already learned to tune you out, anyway. Use few words and
confident, easy actions. One kid is in the process of hitting another?
Step in, wrap your arms around him as firmly as you have to and as
gently as you can and say, "Hey, sweetie, what's the deal?" LISTEN to
the hitter - he is frustrated to the point of hitting. That's
significant. We could talk a lot more about this, but the point is
that there is much more to do than say, "No."
>Sneered at? Seriously? Ignored I believe - but sneered at seems
> · etc etc etc
>
> I explain why these things are important but I'm being ignored and
> sneered at.
unlikely.
> The other day we were out and my children were playing inWhy did you say, "not disallowed" instead of saying, "allowed?" Just
> the fountain (not disallowed by the town).
wanting to point out that you are thinking in terms of what NOT to do
and what is NOT allowed. You can develop your positivity by reframing
your thinking - what "CAN" we do?
> DS1 (6) was deliberately splashing passers by.Children playing in a fountain and people were passing nearby and not
expecting to get splashed? Maybe this is not really a good set up and
you should avoid it.
> When I approached the fountainYou weren't right there with them already? The stage was set for a
problem to occur and you walked away from it? Be more attentive and
present.
> and called hisYou feel like he's laughing at your helplessness because you can't
> name to come and talk to me he ran away laughing.
control him. I doubt that very much. He's a kid - he's having fun.
But, you're thinking in terms of who is in control, who has power.
> I felt so out ofI wrote the above before I read the next line - so it IS about how you
> control and helpless I just wept.
feel out of control and helpless.
> Later when I talked about it withOf course. He knows when you call his name like that that he's "in
> him he told me he ran away because he knew I was just going to tell
> him off.
trouble."
I think you have to set up their world for them to be successful so
they can't get "in trouble." That is my suggestion to you - to think
about how to do that.
>Should should should. Drop the word.
>
> Things that should feel positive just don't.
> Instead of cooking three meals a day I am always preparing snacksI think, to be honest, that is how most of us happy parents live.
> and different meals for
> everyone.
"Should" cook three meals a day was one of those "shoulds" we dropped
a LONG time ago. REVEL in the grazing - change your way of thinking
about cooking and food. Plan ahead for the family to graze on the good
stuff you've prepared. Make what they like and have it ready when
they're ready for it. The point is to have good (healthy and good-
tasting enjoyable) foods, right? There is nothing sacred about three
meals per day - it isn't even the healthiest way to eat. Don't just
let it go - get INTO the alternatives. Figure out how to do this -
good practice at being creative and thinking outside the box.
> Instead of having time to recharge in the evening, the children areKids their age can be exhausting - that's reality. instead of thinking
> still up beyond my saturation point.
of evenings as your recharging time, and resenting it that you're not
getting that time, focus on getting chances to recharge your own
batteries at other times - especially times that INCLUDE the kids!
Watch a movie - watch some silly tv show. Get into the fountain WITH
them (okay - it is in public, maybe that's too undignified for you -
but go to a pool, instead). Read good books aloud. Cuddle. Also - take
1-minute vacations. Focus on those couple of minutes you get to
yourself throughout the day - there are many more of them than you
think, but you're ignoring them because they're so short. Instead -
pay attention and spend 30 seconds deep breathing. Wash your face with
something that smells really good. Put some really nice hand lotion at
the sink - you can massage your own hands and arms for 30 seconds. I
like the Body Splash that they sell at Bath and Body Works - I spray
it sort of into the hair in my direction and stand in the mist for a
second or two. Refreshing moment. Have a glass of cold water - enjoy
it, savor it. In other words, take care of yourself in the little
moments between other things.
>You have an idea in your head of what them being satisfied would look
>
> I realise as I'm writing this that I am feeling resentful – I am
> doing everything I can, feeling overwhelmed, and it's not enough – it
> feels like I can never satisfy them.
like, I suppose. And the resentment is that they aren't getting with
the program (YOUR program). You're doing your part - they're not
responding like they are supposed to, right?
> And however much I am trying to respect their own autonomy they doI wish I could put a pair of glasses on you that would let you "see"
> not respect (OK – obey) the things I do ask.
from a different perspective. It is like you're currently looking
through lenses that make the world look like it is filled with power
struggles - you're "seeing" who is in control, who is being
respectful, who is being obedient, who is in charge, who is running
things, who is being listened to, etc.
Maybe try this mental/physical trick. Either do it physically, if
possible, or imagine doing it. Stand "beside" your child - facing the
same direction. You are a team. You are NOT competitors or
adversaries. Physically stand next to each other - don't "face off."
Don't look into his eyes - (I know - goes against conventional wisdom)
- glaring into someone's eyes is threatening and hostile.
ASSUME the child wants to feel good and that you want to support that.
Act like you KNOW it is true.
When they were splashing passersby, you were embarrassed and angry at
them for not knowing better and making you seem like a bad parent. You
thought about what those passersby would be thinking about the parent
of those bratty children. And, maybe, you thought things like,
"They're so unsocialized, rude, uncaring....what kind of people will
they be when they grow up?"
How could you have thought/been different? I'm not saying let them run
wild and be a big rude inconvenience to other people in the world. It
isn't a choice of that versus control them, though.
If, instead, you were thinking, "Wow, you guys are having SO much fun
in that fountain. We should come at a time when other people won't be
going by so you can splash as much as you want. I wonder when would be
a good time? I wonder if there are other places to play in water like
this? Maybe we should plan a trip to a water park? Or, gosh, do you
think we could set up a mini-water park in our own yard? Have you guys
ever played on a slip-n-slide?"
Can you imagine that saying these kinds of things to them would create
an entirely different atmosphere and engender a lot more cooperation
with you than you lecturing them about how rude it is to splash other
people and how those people walking by didn't like it and blah blah
blah. If they expected cool ideas to come out of your mouth, they'd
come running when you called their name, not run the other way.
>This is good - you know what the problem is, deep in your heart you
>
> I am finding it very hard to justify to others (eg my mother) my move
> towards unschooling because it does not seem to be making my family
> any happier. DH is on board but feels much the same as me. I'm
> worried that we are just not creative enough, or energetic enough or
> good enough to offer our children this lifestyle.
know you need to be more create and more pro-active. My experience is
that those who worry about this are the ones who CAN do it!
>It is all about how you think - work on changing the way you think
>
> I can hear the negativity in my voice, and I am so churned up to have
> to admit this, but I feel far from living joyfully.
>
> Where am I going wrong?
about you and the boys. Work on thinking of yourself as their
supporter. Maybe instead of thinking in terms of "not saying no" -
think of more and more ways to say yes. Try to avoid saying no
directly - use diversion tactics more often.
-pam
k
>What I said is it CAN take years to learn -like playing an instrument really
> Katherine said that it can take years to learn to parent well, but I feel
> like I don't have years.
>
well- but it doesn't necessarily take long to learn how to parent.
So basically what that means is it takes a long time to stick with
unschooling and continue learning as you go along.
Things are always changing. That's one of the reasons it's hard to keep up
with. You are changing by learning (hopefully) and so are your children.
> My girls are 3 1/2, almost 4, and I feel like I'm on the clock to get itIf it could happen in a second, there wouldn't be so many people who stay on
> better NOW.
>
these lists for years. The key is to keep on learning more. If you're
hoping for automatic pilot, that's not what relationships are about.
Because when you think you've got it, your child/ren go through other stages
and develop other needs to be met. And there we are again, having other
things we want to know.
I would like to add that it does become a lot more fun and developing a new
sense of how to make life fun is a big part of what unschooling is about.
~Katherine
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Ren Allen
~~One more thing, I agree that they shouldn't be splashing passersby.
Completely. ~~
At the same time, I am wondering why someone would get near a fountain
full of children if they didn't really want to get wet?? Hmmm.....
Ren
Completely. ~~
At the same time, I am wondering why someone would get near a fountain
full of children if they didn't really want to get wet?? Hmmm.....
Ren
Ren Allen
~~I spoke to someone the other day who is doing phone counselling with
Naomi Aldort...is that the way to go?? ~~
It might be. Sometimes it's nice to hear a voice and ask specific
questions or throw ideas around. Just a thought though, several of us
on this list offer coaching at much less expensive rates than Naomi.
Some of the trick is being patient with yourself too....
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Naomi Aldort...is that the way to go?? ~~
It might be. Sometimes it's nice to hear a voice and ask specific
questions or throw ideas around. Just a thought though, several of us
on this list offer coaching at much less expensive rates than Naomi.
Some of the trick is being patient with yourself too....
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Mirika Sumers
Re getting near kids in a fountain...
Because most people expect adults to *control* children. I get so
tired of that attitude. I had a six year old tell me that I needed to
control my children the other day. At the time they were playing
happily. I was so stunned i couldn't think of anything to say.
Mirika
Because most people expect adults to *control* children. I get so
tired of that attitude. I had a six year old tell me that I needed to
control my children the other day. At the time they were playing
happily. I was so stunned i couldn't think of anything to say.
Mirika
amberlee_b
Allison,
Is this how you were brought up? If so, you will be fighting this in yourself for a while. I
have sit downs with my kids all the time. In the past I have had to apologize and explain
that I am learning too. I wasn't born being a parent.
Good for you!!! You are consciously being more alert to how and when and why you say
NO and working toward being better. I am going to try and help....if it isn't what you are
looking for tell me to go suck and egg and I will leave you alone! LOL
them how to open and close the door properly? Hummmm, tough one. I know how
expensive a door can be...maybe take them to Home Depot and show them doors and the
cost and explain how much they would have to earn to pay you back for a door??? I don't
know...Anyone???
take the broom outside and play with them....Put a sheet on and pretend to be Tuskan
Raiders or witches or whatever the broom is being the prop for.
help you clean it up...it is just paint. No worries.
into it with them....what are they playing, whales...my kids LOVE to make a mess with
water....we pad the floors with towels. And my bath takers are now 8 and 9...
get it eventually and you won't have to feel guilty for saying something or nagging.
just want your attention good or bad, positive or negative.
walk away.....less attention for the action you want to not see
you will not be taking him back to the fountain. Respect is a principle too.
either don't eat OR they make their own.
don't have respect and you are trying to break away from it. Take a MOMMY TIME OUT! :)
When it gets to be too much and if you must be loud about it, loudly and bravely declare
you are taking a Mommy Time Out and going to your room for 10 minutes. It really works.
Hang in there you will be fine, breathe and know we have been there before. It is difficult
to change, but you can ONLY control YOURSELF.....NO ONE ELSE, not even your children.
They need to know you love them unconditionally....not if they behave or if they don't spill
the water everywhere or if they are nice to each other. ALL THE TIME. :) They need you to
be a safe place, no negativity.
Oh and try flylady.net. She even talks about how if they see you doing it happily cheerfully
they will catch on and follow suit. Be the example you want them to become.
OH and one more thing...sorry can't help it. Try having a YES day. You say YES to
everything. This is amazing and you will feel great and the kids will be shocked and
surprised and it will be fun.....honest. (Yes even if the question is "Mom can I play in the
toilet", Say Yes you can play in water, let me fill the sink for you...or the tub (you don't
have to bath you can just play.) Find a way to say YES for an entire 24 hrs and you'll be
surprised at how you feel, your DH feels and the family. You find a way to say yes to what
they want without it being something that will hurt them.
It will get better. Honest! But you have to be willing to work on yourself too. :) HUGGS!
Enjoy your MTO and jump back in there.
Amberlee
Is this how you were brought up? If so, you will be fighting this in yourself for a while. I
have sit downs with my kids all the time. In the past I have had to apologize and explain
that I am learning too. I wasn't born being a parent.
Good for you!!! You are consciously being more alert to how and when and why you say
NO and working toward being better. I am going to try and help....if it isn't what you are
looking for tell me to go suck and egg and I will leave you alone! LOL
> · not to force the door against its hingesThis I understand....what is the principle you want to teach here. Have you ever shown
them how to open and close the door properly? Hummmm, tough one. I know how
expensive a door can be...maybe take them to Home Depot and show them doors and the
cost and explain how much they would have to earn to pay you back for a door??? I don't
know...Anyone???
> · not to wave the broom above their heads indoorsHave they been watching Star Wars (all I can think of is the Tuskan Raiders)....Have them
take the broom outside and play with them....Put a sheet on and pretend to be Tuskan
Raiders or witches or whatever the broom is being the prop for.
> · not to touch the walls with paint on their handsPut up butcher paper or something they can paint on the walls with, join them, have them
help you clean it up...it is just paint. No worries.
> · not to slosh gallons of water out of the tub1. Don't put very much water in the tub to begin with then let them play with subs, and get
into it with them....what are they playing, whales...my kids LOVE to make a mess with
water....we pad the floors with towels. And my bath takers are now 8 and 9...
> · not to open the oven doorMaybe instead of telling them just show them by constantly closing it for them. They will
get it eventually and you won't have to feel guilty for saying something or nagging.
> · not to leave the fridge door opensee above....the less attention they get for leaving doors open the less they will do it. They
just want your attention good or bad, positive or negative.
> · not to hitAh hitting....."I'm sorry but I can't be with you when you hit" or "You can't be with us" and
walk away.....less attention for the action you want to not see
> · etc etc etcYour 6 year old knows....you need to let him know how it made you feel and explain that
>
> I explain why these things are important but I'm being ignored and
> sneered at. The other day we were out and my children were playing in
> the fountain (not disallowed by the town). DS1 (6) was deliberately
> splashing passers by. When I approached the fountain and called his
> name to come and talk to me he ran away laughing. I felt so out of
> control and helpless I just wept. Later when I talked about it with
> him he told me he ran away because he knew I was just going to tell
> him off.
>
you will not be taking him back to the fountain. Respect is a principle too.
> Things that should feel positive just don't. Instead of cooking threeoh no...sorry, I am not a short order chef! I cook one meal and if they don't want it they
> meals a day I am always preparing snacks and different meals for
> everyone. Instead of having time to recharge in the evening, the
> children are still up beyond my saturation point.
>
either don't eat OR they make their own.
> I realise as I'm writing this that I am feeling resentful I amYour job isn't to satisfy them. Respect is a 2 way street, you have taught them that they
> doing everything I can, feeling overwhelmed, and it's not enough it
> feels like I can never satisfy them. And however much I am trying to
> respect their own autonomy they do not respect (OK obey) the things
> I do ask.
don't have respect and you are trying to break away from it. Take a MOMMY TIME OUT! :)
When it gets to be too much and if you must be loud about it, loudly and bravely declare
you are taking a Mommy Time Out and going to your room for 10 minutes. It really works.
Hang in there you will be fine, breathe and know we have been there before. It is difficult
to change, but you can ONLY control YOURSELF.....NO ONE ELSE, not even your children.
They need to know you love them unconditionally....not if they behave or if they don't spill
the water everywhere or if they are nice to each other. ALL THE TIME. :) They need you to
be a safe place, no negativity.
Oh and try flylady.net. She even talks about how if they see you doing it happily cheerfully
they will catch on and follow suit. Be the example you want them to become.
OH and one more thing...sorry can't help it. Try having a YES day. You say YES to
everything. This is amazing and you will feel great and the kids will be shocked and
surprised and it will be fun.....honest. (Yes even if the question is "Mom can I play in the
toilet", Say Yes you can play in water, let me fill the sink for you...or the tub (you don't
have to bath you can just play.) Find a way to say YES for an entire 24 hrs and you'll be
surprised at how you feel, your DH feels and the family. You find a way to say yes to what
they want without it being something that will hurt them.
It will get better. Honest! But you have to be willing to work on yourself too. :) HUGGS!
Enjoy your MTO and jump back in there.
Amberlee
Faith Void
I was totally wondering the same thing.
Faith
Faith
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> ~~One more thing, I agree that they shouldn't be splashing passersby.
> Completely. ~~
>
> At the same time, I am wondering why someone would get near a fountain
> full of children if they didn't really want to get wet?? Hmmm.....
>
> Ren
>
>
>
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
Oh goodness, I get that from the neighborhood children all the time for any
small infraction they decreed I should punish my kids. I was so glad when
school started again.
Faith
small infraction they decreed I should punish my kids. I was so glad when
school started again.
Faith
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Mirika Sumers <mirika@...> wrote:
> Re getting near kids in a fountain...
>
> Because most people expect adults to *control* children. I get so
> tired of that attitude. I had a six year old tell me that I needed to
> control my children the other day. At the time they were playing
> happily. I was so stunned i couldn't think of anything to say.
>
> Mirika
>
>
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
~~Just a thought though, several of us on this list offer coaching at much less expensive rates than Naomi.~~
Really?? Who knew??? I don't think I've heard that mentioned at all. I would love to hear more about who and how much!
I know Naomi is quite pricey, and I would have to rearrange *alot* to go that route.
~~Some of the trick is being patient with yourself too...~~
I want to mindfully parent perfectly *today* thanks very much <G>. Mostly I was referring to things I know in my head, but seem to still get triggered into anger/shouting/reacting, even when I've made a conscious decision to respond differently, and time after time I fail. It's hard to be patient when it doesn't seem like there's any progress at all.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Really?? Who knew??? I don't think I've heard that mentioned at all. I would love to hear more about who and how much!
I know Naomi is quite pricey, and I would have to rearrange *alot* to go that route.
~~Some of the trick is being patient with yourself too...~~
I want to mindfully parent perfectly *today* thanks very much <G>. Mostly I was referring to things I know in my head, but seem to still get triggered into anger/shouting/reacting, even when I've made a conscious decision to respond differently, and time after time I fail. It's hard to be patient when it doesn't seem like there's any progress at all.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I don't know if you've read Naomi's book Raising Our Children Raising
Ourselves. The idea of the book is immediately illustrated at the very
beginning (and then many examples of application of that idea are given
throughout the book). I found the book for me to be really very accessible,
especially since book reading hasn't appealed to me the last few years for
some reason. Basically I didn't feel like I was wading a lot to get to the
crux of the matter.
The immediacy of triggers into anger/reaction etc is what the book focuses
on.... how to get a handle on those things and focus on relationships.
If the book doesn't help (and I can't imagine it wouldn't help somewhat)
then you could go for counseling for more than the price of the book. I
think I paid about $15 for it. Can't remember now.
~Katherine
Ourselves. The idea of the book is immediately illustrated at the very
beginning (and then many examples of application of that idea are given
throughout the book). I found the book for me to be really very accessible,
especially since book reading hasn't appealed to me the last few years for
some reason. Basically I didn't feel like I was wading a lot to get to the
crux of the matter.
The immediacy of triggers into anger/reaction etc is what the book focuses
on.... how to get a handle on those things and focus on relationships.
If the book doesn't help (and I can't imagine it wouldn't help somewhat)
then you could go for counseling for more than the price of the book. I
think I paid about $15 for it. Can't remember now.
~Katherine
On 8/30/08, Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>
> ~~Just a thought though, several of us on this list offer coaching at
> much less expensive rates than Naomi.~~
>
> Really?? Who knew??? I don't think I've heard that mentioned at all. I
> would love to hear more about who and how much!
>
> I know Naomi is quite pricey, and I would have to rearrange *alot* to go
> that route.
>
> ~~Some of the trick is being patient with yourself too...~~
>
> I want to mindfully parent perfectly *today* thanks very much <G>. Mostly
> I was referring to things I know in my head, but seem to still get triggered
> into anger/shouting/reacting, even when I've made a conscious decision to
> respond differently, and time after time I fail. It's hard to be patient
> when it doesn't seem like there's any progress at all.
>
> Jodi
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
Thanks Katherine, for the book suggestion. I own a copy, and have poked my way through the book a little, apparently not making it to the portions I need to read! My dad is currently reading it (I have a very cool open-minded dad who fully supports unschooling), so as soon as he's done with it I will read it again - more thoroughly this time.
Jodi
Jodi
--- On Fri, 8/29/08, k <katherand@...> wrote:
From: k <katherand@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Still too many "no"s
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 10:44 PM
I don't know if you've read Naomi's book Raising Our Children Raising
Ourselves. The idea of the book is immediately illustrated at the very
beginning (and then many examples of application of that idea are given
throughout the book). I found the book for me to be really very accessible,
especially since book reading hasn't appealed to me the last few years for
some reason. Basically I didn't feel like I was wading a lot to get to the
crux of the matter.
The immediacy of triggers into anger/reaction etc is what the book focuses
on.... how to get a handle on those things and focus on relationships.
If the book doesn't help (and I can't imagine it wouldn't help somewhat)
then you could go for counseling for more than the price of the book. I
think I paid about $15 for it. Can't remember now.
~Katherine
On 8/30/08, Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ~~Just a thought though, several of us on this list offer coaching at
> much less expensive rates than Naomi.~~
>
> Really?? Who knew??? I don't think I've heard that mentioned at all. I
> would love to hear more about who and how much!
>
> I know Naomi is quite pricey, and I would have to rearrange *alot* to go
> that route.
>
> ~~Some of the trick is being patient with yourself too...~~
>
> I want to mindfully parent perfectly *today* thanks very much <G>. Mostly
> I was referring to things I know in my head, but seem to still get triggered
> into anger/shouting/ reacting, even when I've made a conscious decision to
> respond differently, and time after time I fail. It's hard to be patient
> when it doesn't seem like there's any progress at all.
>
> Jodi
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
~~If it could happen in a second, there wouldn't be so many people who stay on
these lists for years.~~
That honestly *never* occurred to me! I'm happy to hear it doesn't happen for everyone else in a second either <g>.
~~If you're hoping for automatic pilot, that's not what relationships are about. Because when you think you've got it, your child/ren go through other stages and develop other needs to be met. And there we are again, having other things we want to know.~~
It does change every single minute doesn't it?!? I think that's what I find so overwhelming sometimes, is that just when I think I've 'got it', it gets different! Seriously though, automatic pilot is the furthest thing from what I'm hoping for. I do often feel when I get triggered into anger or a reaction I don't like in myself that *I'm* on automatic pilot. That's what I want to change. I'm very clear it's about me needing to shift, and not my girls.
~~I would like to add that it does become a lot more fun~~
Phew!!!
~~developing a new sense of how to make life fun is a big part of what unschooling is about.~~
I guess it would help if *I* started having fun, huh??? Taking it all a little less seriously would be really good for me! Actually, we did have alot of fun today at a lake, with unschooling friends, playing in the sand, etc. I realized when we were sitting on the couch cuddling before my girls toddled off to bed, that I hadn't raised my voice once all day. I didn't have anything to apologize for, which I was pretty happy about, therefore nothing to feel regret about as I go to sleep tonight. How lovely they are as well, so forgiving, always telling me they love me no matter what kind of reactions I've had. It would serve me well to see myself in the same light they do.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
these lists for years.~~
That honestly *never* occurred to me! I'm happy to hear it doesn't happen for everyone else in a second either <g>.
~~If you're hoping for automatic pilot, that's not what relationships are about. Because when you think you've got it, your child/ren go through other stages and develop other needs to be met. And there we are again, having other things we want to know.~~
It does change every single minute doesn't it?!? I think that's what I find so overwhelming sometimes, is that just when I think I've 'got it', it gets different! Seriously though, automatic pilot is the furthest thing from what I'm hoping for. I do often feel when I get triggered into anger or a reaction I don't like in myself that *I'm* on automatic pilot. That's what I want to change. I'm very clear it's about me needing to shift, and not my girls.
~~I would like to add that it does become a lot more fun~~
Phew!!!
~~developing a new sense of how to make life fun is a big part of what unschooling is about.~~
I guess it would help if *I* started having fun, huh??? Taking it all a little less seriously would be really good for me! Actually, we did have alot of fun today at a lake, with unschooling friends, playing in the sand, etc. I realized when we were sitting on the couch cuddling before my girls toddled off to bed, that I hadn't raised my voice once all day. I didn't have anything to apologize for, which I was pretty happy about, therefore nothing to feel regret about as I go to sleep tonight. How lovely they are as well, so forgiving, always telling me they love me no matter what kind of reactions I've had. It would serve me well to see myself in the same light they do.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathryn
Oh Alison,
I hear you! I too have a 6 y/o and 3 y/o and I find it really trying.
Absolutely, expectations are my biggest 'wall'. Not just on the kids,
but on myself. I find that when I drop the expectations and approach
each 'challenge' individually, things do seem to flow a lot easier. I
think this 'mindfulness' allows me to be present; in the moment. I
wish I could have this approach 24/7. Ever so slowly getting there!!
Probably about 50% of the time I am reactive to their goings-on. Must
admit, I'm a little easier on myself than I used to be! Conditioning
is a strong aspect of ourselves that isn't going to alter overnight.
Oh, I wish it could!!
Kathryn
Mum to Mia (6) Jude (3) and Rueben (7 months)
I hear you! I too have a 6 y/o and 3 y/o and I find it really trying.
Absolutely, expectations are my biggest 'wall'. Not just on the kids,
but on myself. I find that when I drop the expectations and approach
each 'challenge' individually, things do seem to flow a lot easier. I
think this 'mindfulness' allows me to be present; in the moment. I
wish I could have this approach 24/7. Ever so slowly getting there!!
Probably about 50% of the time I am reactive to their goings-on. Must
admit, I'm a little easier on myself than I used to be! Conditioning
is a strong aspect of ourselves that isn't going to alter overnight.
Oh, I wish it could!!
Kathryn
Mum to Mia (6) Jude (3) and Rueben (7 months)
k
>I know you didn't mean that literally. I would really rather get it and
> ~~If it could happen in a second, there wouldn't be so many people who stay
> on
> these lists for years.~~
>
> That honestly *never* occurred to me! I'm happy to hear it doesn't happen
> for everyone else in a second either <g>.
>
know it in a second. :) Well I *did* but I didn't start *doing*
unschooling that quickly at all. I have dragged my feet every inch of the
way. I wrote in my blog that I am sooooo resistant! I annoy myself
sometimes.
But yes it's great to keep striving for the authentic less reactive me. And
more thoughtful, less automatic. Absolutely.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carenkh
Dayna Martin started a support group, Unschooling United, whose
facilitators offer *free* phone support. Some offer local meetings, as
well - more info here:
http://www.unschoolingunited.com/findsupport.asp
If you join Unschooling United, you can get a free call with Dayna -
which I think would be worth much more than the membership fee, she is
really awesome!
Caren
facilitators offer *free* phone support. Some offer local meetings, as
well - more info here:
http://www.unschoolingunited.com/findsupport.asp
If you join Unschooling United, you can get a free call with Dayna -
which I think would be worth much more than the membership fee, she is
really awesome!
Caren
amberlee_b
Great Pam! I couldn't for the life of me think of what to do in the door hinge situation. That
was a fabulous idea and I have a friend who will like this too... :)
was a fabulous idea and I have a friend who will like this too... :)
> I think you need to learn the arts of overlooking, redirecting, and
> setting the stage.
>
> >
> > · not to force the door against its hinges
>
> Simply distract them. Don't bother to explain about the hinges, just
> step in and move them on to something else.
>
>
amberlee_b
Ok note to self, I was wrong about the fountain...just ignore what I said. Wow, I must have
been tired when I wrote this.....and you are all right, why would they get close to a fountain
full of kids....hey maybe find a fountain they can play in. We have one downtown that is
soooo much fun.
been tired when I wrote this.....and you are all right, why would they get close to a fountain
full of kids....hey maybe find a fountain they can play in. We have one downtown that is
soooo much fun.
Schuyler
------------
I am experiencing much of what the OP wrote. Still shouting, still feeling overwhelmed, still not experiencing the environment I believe is possible for our home. Katherine said that it can take years to learn to parent well, but I feel like I don't have years. My girls are 3 1/2, almost 4, and I feel like I'm on the clock to get it better NOW.
------------------
Absolutely, you don't have years. I think it is a good thing to realize. It is a finite period of time that you are working with. Sandra Dodd makes a wonderful suggestion of making the better choice in any given decision. Don't worry so much about the best choice, but the better choice is worth worrying over. http://sandradodd.com/peace/noisy is really worth reading. While you are at it read here: http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully, as well.
Yesterday Linnaea got really upset at David. I spent 2 hours just being with her while she worked through that upset. It was a long time and it was important for me not to get agitated or press her to find a better feeling right now. And when I did feel myself growing agitated, or cold, we were outside on a cool British evening for much of the time, I had to breathe through and let it be her upset, not mine. When she was done she was done. 2 years ago I wouldn't have been able to make it as capably as I was last night. 2 years ago I wouldn't have had the patience. I didn't get the patience overnight, but it grew, every day it grew. My patience is the product of a series of better choices. And because of that, in that whole 2 hours of being upset Linnaea didn't say anything hurtful about herself or about me or about David, she didn't hit or bite or do anything physical to me. Part of that is about growing up, but more of that is about me choosing the
better path of two repeatedly. It means that she feels safer and more respected and less like she needs to make big statements to feel that she is being heard.
See it as changing the way you respond the next time. Don't see it as fixing yourself for all the times. Just one interaction at a go.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am experiencing much of what the OP wrote. Still shouting, still feeling overwhelmed, still not experiencing the environment I believe is possible for our home. Katherine said that it can take years to learn to parent well, but I feel like I don't have years. My girls are 3 1/2, almost 4, and I feel like I'm on the clock to get it better NOW.
------------------
Absolutely, you don't have years. I think it is a good thing to realize. It is a finite period of time that you are working with. Sandra Dodd makes a wonderful suggestion of making the better choice in any given decision. Don't worry so much about the best choice, but the better choice is worth worrying over. http://sandradodd.com/peace/noisy is really worth reading. While you are at it read here: http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully, as well.
Yesterday Linnaea got really upset at David. I spent 2 hours just being with her while she worked through that upset. It was a long time and it was important for me not to get agitated or press her to find a better feeling right now. And when I did feel myself growing agitated, or cold, we were outside on a cool British evening for much of the time, I had to breathe through and let it be her upset, not mine. When she was done she was done. 2 years ago I wouldn't have been able to make it as capably as I was last night. 2 years ago I wouldn't have had the patience. I didn't get the patience overnight, but it grew, every day it grew. My patience is the product of a series of better choices. And because of that, in that whole 2 hours of being upset Linnaea didn't say anything hurtful about herself or about me or about David, she didn't hit or bite or do anything physical to me. Part of that is about growing up, but more of that is about me choosing the
better path of two repeatedly. It means that she feels safer and more respected and less like she needs to make big statements to feel that she is being heard.
See it as changing the way you respond the next time. Don't see it as fixing yourself for all the times. Just one interaction at a go.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
First take a deep breath... sorry that is what I tell everyone... lol.
Then let go of this thinking that you need to be perfect. Yes and no are
not unconditional... there are reasons to say no but if you loose your
cool you are giving them power. If they are used to taking your power
this will get worse before it gets better. My DH has some anger issues
and he can loose his cool with our DD 3 3/4 y.o. I often have to
intervene and let her know that Dad is not going to get angry and if she
needs attention she can have a hug or get a book and Dadddy will read to
her.
If my kids wanted to play in the street I would tell them no and we
would talk about why. If my kids wanted to set flame to a toilet paper
roll we would do it in the backyard in the fireplace. If they are
getting into the oven without you, I see safety issues. Attachment
parents help their children explore their world but there is a
difference to doing something to get attention and exploring their
world. My DD will do things that get her attention because she wants it
all the time. This is normal she is almost 4. My son asks endless
questions and wants to experiance more and more - this is normal he just
turned 8. My youngest babbles and screeches endlessly - this is normal
he is seven months.
I sometimes go crazy with everything and finding time for everyone -
including myself. There is the everyday and no day is the same - it
would be easier if it was but that would not be unschooling. If you can
take a day for yourself. Get out of the house, go to a movie, go to a
bookstore, go somewhere with a friend, go shopping, go dancing, do
something without the kids - just for you. This is very hard for me and
it only happens probably once a month but I do also take mini breaks
too. A shower, a chapter in a book, a walk in the yard sometimes it is
with one of the kids but I really try to get at least 15 minutes to
myself all by myself.
If they want to see in the oven - say "oh you want to see in the oven?"
Walk over to the oven open it up or if the child already has, get down
on their level and look in the oven. What do you know about ovens? Is
yours electric or gas? What are the dangers of electric, gas and high
heat? Make it a learning oppurtunity. Show that it doesn't bother you
that they are curious about everything. No slashing in the town square?
Try an exchange. "The town doesn't want us to spash people here but we
can go home and splash water at home." The frig door, lights or water
getting left on? Do a unit or watch a program on conservation/green
living. There are lots of fun ways to guide your children to responsible
living and being good citizens. Try and turn no into yes. We cannot do
this here but we could do this there.
Shannon
Then let go of this thinking that you need to be perfect. Yes and no are
not unconditional... there are reasons to say no but if you loose your
cool you are giving them power. If they are used to taking your power
this will get worse before it gets better. My DH has some anger issues
and he can loose his cool with our DD 3 3/4 y.o. I often have to
intervene and let her know that Dad is not going to get angry and if she
needs attention she can have a hug or get a book and Dadddy will read to
her.
If my kids wanted to play in the street I would tell them no and we
would talk about why. If my kids wanted to set flame to a toilet paper
roll we would do it in the backyard in the fireplace. If they are
getting into the oven without you, I see safety issues. Attachment
parents help their children explore their world but there is a
difference to doing something to get attention and exploring their
world. My DD will do things that get her attention because she wants it
all the time. This is normal she is almost 4. My son asks endless
questions and wants to experiance more and more - this is normal he just
turned 8. My youngest babbles and screeches endlessly - this is normal
he is seven months.
I sometimes go crazy with everything and finding time for everyone -
including myself. There is the everyday and no day is the same - it
would be easier if it was but that would not be unschooling. If you can
take a day for yourself. Get out of the house, go to a movie, go to a
bookstore, go somewhere with a friend, go shopping, go dancing, do
something without the kids - just for you. This is very hard for me and
it only happens probably once a month but I do also take mini breaks
too. A shower, a chapter in a book, a walk in the yard sometimes it is
with one of the kids but I really try to get at least 15 minutes to
myself all by myself.
If they want to see in the oven - say "oh you want to see in the oven?"
Walk over to the oven open it up or if the child already has, get down
on their level and look in the oven. What do you know about ovens? Is
yours electric or gas? What are the dangers of electric, gas and high
heat? Make it a learning oppurtunity. Show that it doesn't bother you
that they are curious about everything. No slashing in the town square?
Try an exchange. "The town doesn't want us to spash people here but we
can go home and splash water at home." The frig door, lights or water
getting left on? Do a unit or watch a program on conservation/green
living. There are lots of fun ways to guide your children to responsible
living and being good citizens. Try and turn no into yes. We cannot do
this here but we could do this there.
Shannon
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:22 AM, k wrote:
> This is not a "how to" post about unschooling but I think it's
> important to
keep in mind -why- as to unschooling. For some, like me, it's vital to
keep
our motivations to unschool our children ever before us.
It takes time for kids to believe parents. You're changing parenting
styles
midstream. They haven't welcomed it because they don't see what your
efforts can mean to them. They're probably still hearing the "no's"
more
and finding the "yes's" perplexing, rather than part of a plan to become
a
more peaceful loving parent/child. After all, the majority of their
lives
have been spent very differently.
It takes time to learn an unconventional way to parent. I think it's
easy
to think that if only parenting could operate more or less
automatically,
things would be great. Why isn't it like that? Well, for instance,
"no's"
depend on the adults in the family to gang up on the kids and be
"consistent" in order to function. Many adults could do authoritative
styles of parenting without ever doing any thinking. It would be easy
because they know it like the back of their hand and they wouldn't get
any
resistance from other adults around them about their parenting style.
In
fact, I would get much better acceptance from others in my family if I
were
more authoritarian. My conscience would hurt until it I got it dampened
down enough to tolerate, but other than that I could do it.
Gentle parenting and unschooling take many people quite a bit of effort.
More than others who were raised similarly to that style. It can be
tons
more than I want to do at times. Many times I find that I flat out
don't
know what I'm doing. Yet I'm very motivated and I also want to keep
myself
motivated. So I keep reading on this list and others because I want to
learn differently than I grew up knowing about parenting.
Parenting is like a lot of things we might put effort into, like
learning to
fingerpick on the guitar or banjo or mandolin, and those skills can take
years and years to accomplish. Unschooling doesn't necessarily take
long
but since it isn't easy for me I want to keep after it. It IS a lot for
me
AND after doing it for a while I have been able to see that it's worth
it.
Sometimes "no" is fine word but overused it can become a very difficult
thing to deal with in unschooling because that word represents how
attached
we are to controlling others instead of relating to them. And so
learning
to relate to others more is a lot like this quote: * Do everything with
a
mind that lets go. If you let go a little you will have a little peace;
if
you let go a lot you will have a lot of peace; if you let go completely
you
will have complete peace. *
We can come to wholelife unschooling with the thought that it's just
like
authoritarian parenting except that parents say "yes" instead of "no."
As
though it were another 1-2-3 method. It's not. Authoritarian parents
never
need a reason for saying no. Parents who are unschooling are choosing
to
understand and talk about why they're saying "yes" and why they're
saying
"no."
~Katherine
On 8/29/08, almadoing <almadoing@...
<mailto:almadoing@...> <mailto:almadoing@...> > wrote:
>
> We have been moving into unschooling for more than a year now but I
> am feeling very discouraged. Now that I am trying to say yes, I
> realise just how many "no"s my sons (age 6 and 3) are hearing. I am
> still sounding like the mainstream parent I don't want to be
> (nagging, shouting, belittling) while feeling that the increasing
> yeses are, in many instances, making my life very hard.
>
> I am trying to question each "no" as to its arbitrariness, and have
> stopped a lot. These are typical of those that get through
> � not to force the door against its hinges
> � not to wave the broom above their heads indoors
> � not to touch the walls with paint on their hands
> � not to slosh gallons of water out of the tub
> � not to open the oven door
> � not to leave the fridge door open
> � not to hit
> � etc etc etc
>
> I explain why these things are important but I'm being ignored and
> sneered at. The other day we were out and my children were playing in
> the fountain (not disallowed by the town). DS1 (6) was deliberately
> splashing passers by. When I approached the fountain and called his
> name to come and talk to me he ran away laughing. I felt so out of
> control and helpless I just wept. Later when I talked about it with
> him he told me he ran away because he knew I was just going to tell
> him off.
>
> Things that should feel positive just don't. Instead of cooking three
> meals a day I am always preparing snacks and different meals for
> everyone. Instead of having time to recharge in the evening, the
> children are still up beyond my saturation point.
>
> I realise as I'm writing this that I am feeling resentful � I am
> doing everything I can, feeling overwhelmed, and it's not enough � it
> feels like I can never satisfy them. And however much I am trying to
> respect their own autonomy they do not respect (OK � obey) the things
> I do ask.
>
> I am finding it very hard to justify to others (eg my mother) my move
> towards unschooling because it does not seem to be making my family
> any happier. DH is on board but feels much the same as me. I'm
> worried that we are just not creative enough, or energetic enough or
> good enough to offer our children this lifestyle.
>
> I can hear the negativity in my voice, and I am so churned up to have
> to admit this, but I feel far from living joyfully.
>
> Where am I going wrong?
>
> Alison
> With DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: dragteine76@...
No slashing in the town square?
-=-=-
I'm probably just punchy, but this was really funny to me. <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: dragteine76@...
No slashing in the town square?
-=-=-
I'm probably just punchy, but this was really funny to me. <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
Jodi Bezzola
~~See it as changing the way you respond the next time. Don't see it as fixing yourself for all the times. Just one interaction at a go.~~
Thank you for this. This reminder is really helpful.
I think I get so focused on being better, on responding better in the whole big picture of mothering, that I forget that it's just one interaction at a time. Just next time. One at a time. Baby steps!
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you for this. This reminder is really helpful.
I think I get so focused on being better, on responding better in the whole big picture of mothering, that I forget that it's just one interaction at a time. Just next time. One at a time. Baby steps!
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Professional Parenting
You are a fabulous mom. Cut yourself some slack. We are all human and allowed mistakes!
:-)
Judy Arnall, Peaceful Parenting Expert, Speaker and Author of "Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery" www.professionalparenting.ca Tele: (403) 714-6766 Email jarnall@... "Peace In The World Begins In The Home"
:-)
Judy Arnall, Peaceful Parenting Expert, Speaker and Author of "Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery" www.professionalparenting.ca Tele: (403) 714-6766 Email jarnall@... "Peace In The World Begins In The Home"
----- Original Message -----
From: Jodi Bezzola
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Still too many "no"s
~~See it as changing the way you respond the next time. Don't see it as fixing yourself for all the times. Just one interaction at a go.~~
Thank you for this. This reminder is really helpful.
I think I get so focused on being better, on responding better in the whole big picture of mothering, that I forget that it's just one interaction at a time. Just next time. One at a time. Baby steps!
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
~~You are a fabulous mom. Cut yourself some slack. We are all human and allowed mistakes!~~
Thanks for this, and while I'm aware that there are *so* many things I'm doing really well, there are other things that I want to do better. It's not about being perfect, and it's not about being harsh with myself, it's about seeing things in my behaviour that don't align with my values, you know the kind of things that I feel badly about right after they happen...and for awhile afterwards until I apologize and make it right.
I really believe that we get triggered by people, places, and things, in order to heal more stuff! This is what it's about for me anyway, when my girls really trigger me and I *know* it's not about them, even though I oops in the moment and think it is sometimes. One of the huge benefits of having children is to get to continue to stretch, if I choose to look at it that way. It's about me wanting to be my best self, to hold myself to a high standard in a really authentic way, and to pass on as few of my kinks as possible to my children.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for this, and while I'm aware that there are *so* many things I'm doing really well, there are other things that I want to do better. It's not about being perfect, and it's not about being harsh with myself, it's about seeing things in my behaviour that don't align with my values, you know the kind of things that I feel badly about right after they happen...and for awhile afterwards until I apologize and make it right.
I really believe that we get triggered by people, places, and things, in order to heal more stuff! This is what it's about for me anyway, when my girls really trigger me and I *know* it's not about them, even though I oops in the moment and think it is sometimes. One of the huge benefits of having children is to get to continue to stretch, if I choose to look at it that way. It's about me wanting to be my best self, to hold myself to a high standard in a really authentic way, and to pass on as few of my kinks as possible to my children.
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
almadoing
Thank you everybody for your inspiring replies to my post. I have
printed them out and have highlighted many bits to think about and
work on.
Several of you questioned whether there is stuff from the past to do
with control and power struggles getting in the way. I developed some
awareness that this is the case after a huge argument with DH a while
ago about a chicken. We were having supper of some leftover chicken
(not as much as we would have liked) and I got annoyed that DH was
giving most of it to DS1. My position was that it was spoiling him
and he would learn to be selfish etc etc. Talking later we were able
to connect this to our mothers. DH's mother always gave her children
the best she could even if it meant she went without (and this was in
communist Poland when times were very hard). I, of course, was
following my mother's way. It honestly didn't ever occur to me until
this unschooling path that my mother could have been wrong about such
things. It was so ingrained in me. She believed that it you give them
an inch they take a mile. You train kids and if you take your eye off
the ball they'll turn out bad. She didn't see why she should ever
shortchange herself. She lives very defensively and is always on
guard against being taken advantage of. And I learnt that from. That
chicken argument really woke me up. Not only did I totally get it but
my respect for my DH and my MIL shot up too.
I realise I still have a lot of work to do in this area. I am
beginning to see the depth and breadth of the control and coercion my
mother exerted in my childhood home. It shakes my sense of her and of
my childhood to see these things. A good example is church
attendance. I was raised Catholic, and this means I was baptised as
an infant, made my first confession at six, first communion at seven
and was due to be confirmed at twelve. I put my foot down (and I
rarely stood up to my mother) and told her that the meaning of
confirmation was that I was confirming to the Church that I accepted
it MYSELF, and that I couldn't because I didn't believe in it. I have
always held that my mother was respectful of me because she agreed,
and didn't make me get confirmed into Catholicism. But I now think
deeper and ask, why then did she make me go to mass every week for
another FOUR years until I was 16?
So, while trying to maintain my good relationship with my mother I
must reject a lot of what I learnt from her. It is painful to realise
that in order to parent in a way I believe is best for my children I
must do it very differently from her. It makes me sad for my `child
self' too. However, I feel very positive for my `mother self' that I
have some very good guidance as to the most important work I have to
do now.
Thank you all again
Alison
with DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
printed them out and have highlighted many bits to think about and
work on.
Several of you questioned whether there is stuff from the past to do
with control and power struggles getting in the way. I developed some
awareness that this is the case after a huge argument with DH a while
ago about a chicken. We were having supper of some leftover chicken
(not as much as we would have liked) and I got annoyed that DH was
giving most of it to DS1. My position was that it was spoiling him
and he would learn to be selfish etc etc. Talking later we were able
to connect this to our mothers. DH's mother always gave her children
the best she could even if it meant she went without (and this was in
communist Poland when times were very hard). I, of course, was
following my mother's way. It honestly didn't ever occur to me until
this unschooling path that my mother could have been wrong about such
things. It was so ingrained in me. She believed that it you give them
an inch they take a mile. You train kids and if you take your eye off
the ball they'll turn out bad. She didn't see why she should ever
shortchange herself. She lives very defensively and is always on
guard against being taken advantage of. And I learnt that from. That
chicken argument really woke me up. Not only did I totally get it but
my respect for my DH and my MIL shot up too.
I realise I still have a lot of work to do in this area. I am
beginning to see the depth and breadth of the control and coercion my
mother exerted in my childhood home. It shakes my sense of her and of
my childhood to see these things. A good example is church
attendance. I was raised Catholic, and this means I was baptised as
an infant, made my first confession at six, first communion at seven
and was due to be confirmed at twelve. I put my foot down (and I
rarely stood up to my mother) and told her that the meaning of
confirmation was that I was confirming to the Church that I accepted
it MYSELF, and that I couldn't because I didn't believe in it. I have
always held that my mother was respectful of me because she agreed,
and didn't make me get confirmed into Catholicism. But I now think
deeper and ask, why then did she make me go to mass every week for
another FOUR years until I was 16?
So, while trying to maintain my good relationship with my mother I
must reject a lot of what I learnt from her. It is painful to realise
that in order to parent in a way I believe is best for my children I
must do it very differently from her. It makes me sad for my `child
self' too. However, I feel very positive for my `mother self' that I
have some very good guidance as to the most important work I have to
do now.
Thank you all again
Alison
with DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> You feel like he's laughing at your helplessness because you can'tyou "see"
> control him. I doubt that very much. He's a kid - he's having fun.
> But, you're thinking in terms of who is in control, who has power.
> I wish I could put a pair of glasses on you that would let
> from a different perspective. It is like you're currently lookingpower
> through lenses that make the world look like it is filled with
> struggles - you're "seeing" who is in control, who is beingrunning
> respectful, who is being obedient, who is in charge, who is
> things, who is being listened to, etc.at
>
>
> When they were splashing passersby, you were embarrassed and angry
> them for not knowing better and making you seem like a bad parent.You
> thought about what those passersby would be thinking about theparent
> of those bratty children. And, maybe, you thought things like,will
> "They're so unsocialized, rude, uncaring....what kind of people
> they be when they grow up?"
> It is all about how you think - work on changing the way you think
> about you and the boys. Work on thinking of yourself as their
> supporter. Maybe instead of thinking in terms of "not saying no" -
> think of more and more ways to say yes. Try to avoid saying no
> directly - use diversion tactics more often.
>
>
> -pam
>