TV vs. movies
hamsder clan
hi all,
i'll give a brief intro since i've mostly been lurking here. :) my
husband and i have been very academically (meaning we're nerds and
very into research) discussing and reading about educational
alternatives for many years, and about ten years ago decided that
unschooling was definitely they way to go for us. it took us a few
more years to get around to having these kids we were planning to
unschool, but now we're there. our daughter is now 3.5, our son 1.5.
my question is this: my husband and i haven't really watched tv since
we left home for college in 1993... we now have a tv but live rurally
and would have to get a satellite dish and who knows what all
(honestly, we really haven't looked into it due to lack of interest).
we have a netflix account with a separate queue for the kids and quite
a large library of movies they have free access to. plus, we have
relatively high speed internet access and can find all kinds of things
that interest them online. i always assumed we'd look into tv if/when
the kids expressed an interest. lately i've been wondering if we're
setting ourselves up for a deschooling tv sort of experience when/if
they do decide they want tv or if it is unlikely to turn out that way
if we do what we can to support their interest in that direction as
soon as they express it. have any of you veterans had a similar
experience, or just seasoned thoughts to share? :)
also, there have been lots of posts looking for start-up books for new
unschoolers, and i haven't seen anyone post the book that got us
hooked on this concept (although it took us quite a while longer to
discover that the name for this lifestyle is unschooling): Child's
Work by Nancy Wallace.
thanks for all the list wisdom... it definitely helps me get back to
the right mindset when i'm feeling grumpy and over-run by the
chitlins!
all the best,
jenny (larkin, 3.5, finn 1.5)
i'll give a brief intro since i've mostly been lurking here. :) my
husband and i have been very academically (meaning we're nerds and
very into research) discussing and reading about educational
alternatives for many years, and about ten years ago decided that
unschooling was definitely they way to go for us. it took us a few
more years to get around to having these kids we were planning to
unschool, but now we're there. our daughter is now 3.5, our son 1.5.
my question is this: my husband and i haven't really watched tv since
we left home for college in 1993... we now have a tv but live rurally
and would have to get a satellite dish and who knows what all
(honestly, we really haven't looked into it due to lack of interest).
we have a netflix account with a separate queue for the kids and quite
a large library of movies they have free access to. plus, we have
relatively high speed internet access and can find all kinds of things
that interest them online. i always assumed we'd look into tv if/when
the kids expressed an interest. lately i've been wondering if we're
setting ourselves up for a deschooling tv sort of experience when/if
they do decide they want tv or if it is unlikely to turn out that way
if we do what we can to support their interest in that direction as
soon as they express it. have any of you veterans had a similar
experience, or just seasoned thoughts to share? :)
also, there have been lots of posts looking for start-up books for new
unschoolers, and i haven't seen anyone post the book that got us
hooked on this concept (although it took us quite a while longer to
discover that the name for this lifestyle is unschooling): Child's
Work by Nancy Wallace.
thanks for all the list wisdom... it definitely helps me get back to
the right mindset when i'm feeling grumpy and over-run by the
chitlins!
all the best,
jenny (larkin, 3.5, finn 1.5)
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 13, 2008, at 4:09 PM, hamsder clan wrote:
deprivation of needs that causes humans to crave something not merely
the lack of it. We've probably only had 2 avocados in the house since
my daughter was born 17 years ago and bringing in another won't cause
an eating frenzy ;-) If, on the other hand, my daughter had never had
chocolate, baking a pan of Ghirardelli brownies might cause of frenzy
if she was a chocolate lover and didn't know it! The frenzy would be
way less if she'd had chocolate and chocolate cake and chocolate
cookies throughout her life.
One of the big draws of TV is that immediate access to a wealth of
stories and its window on the world for kids who are visually
oriented. That aspect is lessened by free access to the internet and
your stream of videos. So a TV added wouldn't be a huge change.
I think the parents who are setting themselves up for potential
problems are the ones with an aversion to TV, either fear or
superiority. That attitude can't be hidden from the kids no matter
how well the parents think they're doing it and it creates a barrier
between kids and TV. So even if the parents say they'll get one if
the kids ever want it (or worse they'll talk about it :-/) the kids
have the potential of feeling there's something wrong with them for
wanting something their parents have an aversion to.
Even though we had cable early I don't think my daughter deliberately
chose programs on TV until 6 or maybe later. Before that was plenty
of videos from the library.
I think the unique things TV offers are ongoing series with favorite
characters (or that one show that sucks them in like Pokemon was for
my daughter), a wealth of non-fiction shows particularly on the cable
channels that appeal to even esoteric tastes, a common interest with
friends, and the opportunity to discuss advertising (which is much
more attention grabbing on TV, I think, though no where near as
powerful or influential as those who fear such things think ;-) None
of those are likely to affect your kids until they're older.
(This may be the first time the question's been asked in a way that
didn't inadvertently send the message "You must have TV to
unschool!" ;-) For some reason the message "You need to let go of
your aversion," gets misinterpreted as "You need to get TV.")
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> lately i've been wondering if we'reI don't have experience but just extrapolating logically ... it's
> setting ourselves up for a deschooling tv sort of experience when/if
> they do decide they want tv or if it is unlikely to turn out that way
> if we do what we can to support their interest in that direction as
> soon as they express it. have any of you veterans had a similar
> experience, or just seasoned thoughts to share? :)
deprivation of needs that causes humans to crave something not merely
the lack of it. We've probably only had 2 avocados in the house since
my daughter was born 17 years ago and bringing in another won't cause
an eating frenzy ;-) If, on the other hand, my daughter had never had
chocolate, baking a pan of Ghirardelli brownies might cause of frenzy
if she was a chocolate lover and didn't know it! The frenzy would be
way less if she'd had chocolate and chocolate cake and chocolate
cookies throughout her life.
One of the big draws of TV is that immediate access to a wealth of
stories and its window on the world for kids who are visually
oriented. That aspect is lessened by free access to the internet and
your stream of videos. So a TV added wouldn't be a huge change.
I think the parents who are setting themselves up for potential
problems are the ones with an aversion to TV, either fear or
superiority. That attitude can't be hidden from the kids no matter
how well the parents think they're doing it and it creates a barrier
between kids and TV. So even if the parents say they'll get one if
the kids ever want it (or worse they'll talk about it :-/) the kids
have the potential of feeling there's something wrong with them for
wanting something their parents have an aversion to.
Even though we had cable early I don't think my daughter deliberately
chose programs on TV until 6 or maybe later. Before that was plenty
of videos from the library.
I think the unique things TV offers are ongoing series with favorite
characters (or that one show that sucks them in like Pokemon was for
my daughter), a wealth of non-fiction shows particularly on the cable
channels that appeal to even esoteric tastes, a common interest with
friends, and the opportunity to discuss advertising (which is much
more attention grabbing on TV, I think, though no where near as
powerful or influential as those who fear such things think ;-) None
of those are likely to affect your kids until they're older.
(This may be the first time the question's been asked in a way that
didn't inadvertently send the message "You must have TV to
unschool!" ;-) For some reason the message "You need to let go of
your aversion," gets misinterpreted as "You need to get TV.")
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hbmccarty
We don't have cable either, have had cable, moved, and now don't, due to
choosing to spend the money on other things- high speed internet access
and netflix.
We do have the opportunity with these to watch series- not brand new
ones- you can get many series through Netflix. My son seems to be able
to watch almost any series he wants online, also- through sidereel and
other sites. There are also a zillion ads on some of these sites that
play as part of the video- same ads as TV. No one currently feels the
need for cable except during the Olympics or maybe March Madness- and
this is my husband and he really doesn't have much time for it as he is
self employed with a growing business- he can go to my brothers house
for that, too. I have heard the internet will replace other media soon-
I can see in our house that it pretty much has.
If we found there was something on cable - some need- we couldn't find
through these other media we would shift things around so we could pay
for it. I would expect the kids would be pretty into it for awhile- like
they are when they find a new series on sidereel, or netflix, or get a
new game or a new musical instrument.
Heather (in NY)
Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
choosing to spend the money on other things- high speed internet access
and netflix.
We do have the opportunity with these to watch series- not brand new
ones- you can get many series through Netflix. My son seems to be able
to watch almost any series he wants online, also- through sidereel and
other sites. There are also a zillion ads on some of these sites that
play as part of the video- same ads as TV. No one currently feels the
need for cable except during the Olympics or maybe March Madness- and
this is my husband and he really doesn't have much time for it as he is
self employed with a growing business- he can go to my brothers house
for that, too. I have heard the internet will replace other media soon-
I can see in our house that it pretty much has.
If we found there was something on cable - some need- we couldn't find
through these other media we would shift things around so we could pay
for it. I would expect the kids would be pretty into it for awhile- like
they are when they find a new series on sidereel, or netflix, or get a
new game or a new musical instrument.
Heather (in NY)
Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
>
>
> I think the unique things TV offers are ongoing series with favorite
> characters (or that one show that sucks them in like Pokemon was for
> my daughter), a wealth of non-fiction shows particularly on the cable
> channels that appeal to even esoteric tastes, a common interest with
> friends, and the opportunity to discuss advertising (which is much
> more attention grabbing on TV, I think, though no where near as
> powerful or influential as those who fear such things think ;-) None
> of those are likely to affect your kids until they're older.
>
>
k
>Have you tried Firefox with Adblock Plus? It's a great Mozilla addon and it
> There are also a zillion ads on some of these sites that
> play as part of the video- same ads as TV.
>
works well for us.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hbmccarty
No- though I'll mention it to the kids- I prefer to watch movies from
the couch when I do watch one- and don't have a laptop yet. We have
found some great series on Netflix- especially the Freaks and Geeks and
Undeclared series. I also love being able to watch 2 or 3 episodes in
one sitting if I want to- it is hard enough to wait for the next disc to
arrive!
Though my kids seem to enjoy the ads, as well. I went to a movie with
my daughter yesterday. I made a comment during one of the ads in the
beginning and she said shhh... It was a pretty cool ad.
Heather
k wrote:
the couch when I do watch one- and don't have a laptop yet. We have
found some great series on Netflix- especially the Freaks and Geeks and
Undeclared series. I also love being able to watch 2 or 3 episodes in
one sitting if I want to- it is hard enough to wait for the next disc to
arrive!
Though my kids seem to enjoy the ads, as well. I went to a movie with
my daughter yesterday. I made a comment during one of the ads in the
beginning and she said shhh... It was a pretty cool ad.
Heather
k wrote:
>
> Have you tried Firefox with Adblock Plus? It's a great Mozilla addon
> and it
> works well for us.
>
> ~Katherine
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
k
Netflix works with Internet Explorer for sure. I'm not sure about Firefox.
However you can block a lot of other ad heavy stuff on the page around
videos, if you want to.
~Katherine
However you can block a lot of other ad heavy stuff on the page around
videos, if you want to.
~Katherine
On 8/14/08, hbmccarty <hbmccarty@...> wrote:
>
> No- though I'll mention it to the kids- I prefer to watch movies from
> the couch when I do watch one- and don't have a laptop yet. We have
> found some great series on Netflix- especially the Freaks and Geeks and
> Undeclared series. I also love being able to watch 2 or 3 episodes in
> one sitting if I want to- it is hard enough to wait for the next disc to
> arrive!
>
> Though my kids seem to enjoy the ads, as well. I went to a movie with
> my daughter yesterday. I made a comment during one of the ads in the
> beginning and she said shhh... It was a pretty cool ad.
>
> Heather
>
> k wrote:
> >
> > Have you tried Firefox with Adblock Plus? It's a great Mozilla addon
> > and it
> > works well for us.
> >
> > ~Katherine
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
it doesn't work with firefox.
Faith
Faith
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 10:13 AM, k <katherand@...> wrote:
> Netflix works with Internet Explorer for sure. I'm not sure about
> Firefox.
> However you can block a lot of other ad heavy stuff on the page around
> videos, if you want to.
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
> On 8/14/08, hbmccarty <hbmccarty@... <hbmccarty%40twcny.rr.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > No- though I'll mention it to the kids- I prefer to watch movies from
> > the couch when I do watch one- and don't have a laptop yet. We have
> > found some great series on Netflix- especially the Freaks and Geeks and
> > Undeclared series. I also love being able to watch 2 or 3 episodes in
> > one sitting if I want to- it is hard enough to wait for the next disc to
> > arrive!
> >
> > Though my kids seem to enjoy the ads, as well. I went to a movie with
> > my daughter yesterday. I made a comment during one of the ads in the
> > beginning and she said shhh... It was a pretty cool ad.
> >
> > Heather
> >
> > k wrote:
> > >
> > > Have you tried Firefox with Adblock Plus? It's a great Mozilla addon
> > > and it
> > > works well for us.
> > >
> > > ~Katherine
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Netflix doesn't work on Macs either. It works great with our Windows pc
because that's the platform that Netflix did their programming for. Maybe
they'll branch out more eventually.
~Katherine
because that's the platform that Netflix did their programming for. Maybe
they'll branch out more eventually.
~Katherine
On 8/14/08, Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> it doesn't work with firefox.
> Faith
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 10:13 AM, k <katherand@...<katherand%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > Netflix works with Internet Explorer for sure. I'm not sure about
> > Firefox.
> > However you can block a lot of other ad heavy stuff on the page around
> > videos, if you want to.
> >
> > ~Katherine
> >
> >
> > On 8/14/08, hbmccarty <hbmccarty@... <hbmccarty%40twcny.rr.com><hbmccarty%
> 40twcny.rr.com>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > No- though I'll mention it to the kids- I prefer to watch movies from
> > > the couch when I do watch one- and don't have a laptop yet. We have
> > > found some great series on Netflix- especially the Freaks and Geeks and
> > > Undeclared series. I also love being able to watch 2 or 3 episodes in
> > > one sitting if I want to- it is hard enough to wait for the next disc
> to
> > > arrive!
> > >
> > > Though my kids seem to enjoy the ads, as well. I went to a movie with
> > > my daughter yesterday. I made a comment during one of the ads in the
> > > beginning and she said shhh... It was a pretty cool ad.
> > >
> > > Heather
> > >
> > > k wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Have you tried Firefox with Adblock Plus? It's a great Mozilla addon
> > > > and it
> > > > works well for us.
> > > >
> > > > ~Katherine
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> www.bearthmama.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Emily
I have two boys, 6 and 3. We had cable and canceled it, because no one
ever watched it. We have a ton of movies and they have discovered that
you can watch cartoons online. My 6 year old even found uTube. There
may come a time when they see an ad or a toy for a show they would
like and we won't be able to find it online. Or as other kids become a
bigger part of their lives, they might want to see the shows they
watch. As long as we know the day is probably coming and don't resist
it: no worries :) Besides, it does seem like the internet is taking
over anyway.
It also seems like they have fun physically picking out and putting on
a movie. More hands on.
ever watched it. We have a ton of movies and they have discovered that
you can watch cartoons online. My 6 year old even found uTube. There
may come a time when they see an ad or a toy for a show they would
like and we won't be able to find it online. Or as other kids become a
bigger part of their lives, they might want to see the shows they
watch. As long as we know the day is probably coming and don't resist
it: no worries :) Besides, it does seem like the internet is taking
over anyway.
It also seems like they have fun physically picking out and putting on
a movie. More hands on.
Debra Rossing
> No one currently feels the need for cable except during the Olympicsor maybe March Madness-
And most of that sort of thing is streamed live via the Internet
anyhow...
Deb
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cris
> all the best,...I got this very major adrenaline rush and spurt of joy when I saw
>
> jenny (larkin, 3.5, finn 1.5)
>
that your babe is named larkin!!!!
my girl who's now 23 is named larkin (after larkin stentz whose music
we both loved while she was in utero)
so silly and sorry everybody - I think this is my very first post on
ub and it's not very helpful, is it. (she said with a sheepish grin)
cris
hamsder clan
thanks to all for the responses. :) some comments below...
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 2:18 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
> I don't have experience but just extrapolating logically ... it's
> deprivation of needs that causes humans to crave something not merely
> the lack of it. We've probably only had 2 avocados in the house since
> my daughter was born 17 years ago and bringing in another won't cause
> an eating frenzy ;-) If, on the other hand, my daughter had never had
> chocolate, baking a pan of Ghirardelli brownies might cause of frenzy
> if she was a chocolate lover and didn't know it! The frenzy would be
> way less if she'd had chocolate and chocolate cake and chocolate
> cookies throughout her life.
yeah, i actually felt kind of foolish after making the post because i
realized that we can't anticipate (and purchase ahead of time!) every
interest our children will ever have. besides, if we do make a
purchase and they spend some time enthralled in that (new paint set,
tv subscription, trampoline, whatever) to the exclusion of all else
then we should congratulate ourselves on money well spent. :)
> I think the parents who are setting themselves up for potential
> problems are the ones with an aversion to TV, either fear or
> superiority. That attitude can't be hidden from the kids no matter
> how well the parents think they're doing it and it creates a barrier
> between kids and TV. So even if the parents say they'll get one if
> the kids ever want it (or worse they'll talk about it :-/) the kids
> have the potential of feeling there's something wrong with them for
> wanting something their parents have an aversion to.
yep, no aversion here. i think reading all the posts re. tv/food/etc.
got me a little worked up and over-analytical about how well we're
doing this RU thing. book learning and fully embracing the theory is
one thing, but trying to live it with very young children is a whole
different kettle of fish. i find myself with this perfect world
fantasy about how RU looks with older (school-age) children and get
impatient. i feel like my kids are getting more fun and interesting
all the time and just think (!!!) how much fun we'll have together in
a few years. meanwhile i'm trying very hard to enjoy every moment now
and not get upset when larkin exhibits those passionate three year old
emotions no matter how reasonable i'm being. :)
> (This may be the first time the question's been asked in a way that
> didn't inadvertently send the message "You must have TV to
> unschool!" ;-) For some reason the message "You need to let go of
> your aversion," gets misinterpreted as "You need to get TV.")
glad i could avoid the usual newbie trap. aversion handled (well,
irrelevant, i guess). over-analytical paranoia still slightly
uncontrolled. :)
jenny (larkin, 3.5, finn 1.5)
hamsder clan
we had never heard of the name before, but these days it seems like
everyone has known someone named larkin (or, in one case, a building
named larkin) when we introduce her. :) we'll have to look up
stentz... haven't heard of them. our small-town midwife actually had a
couple name their son larkin about two months after our larkin was
born. i don't think it's in danger of becoming the next susan or
heather (or jennifer!), though. :)
jenny
everyone has known someone named larkin (or, in one case, a building
named larkin) when we introduce her. :) we'll have to look up
stentz... haven't heard of them. our small-town midwife actually had a
couple name their son larkin about two months after our larkin was
born. i don't think it's in danger of becoming the next susan or
heather (or jennifer!), though. :)
jenny
On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 10:51 AM, cris <muddpies@...> wrote:
>> all the best,
>>
>> jenny (larkin, 3.5, finn 1.5)
>>
>
> ...I got this very major adrenaline rush and spurt of joy when I saw
> that your babe is named larkin!!!!
> my girl who's now 23 is named larkin (after larkin stentz whose music
> we both loved while she was in utero)
> so silly and sorry everybody - I think this is my very first post on
> ub and it's not very helpful, is it. (she said with a sheepish grin)
>
> cris
>
>
cris
http://cdbaby.com/cd/larkinstentz
_to the essence of a candle_ was what we listened to over and over,
especially during the last month as dh and I tried to sleep on my
single layer futon in our studio apt in oakland ca on the other side
of the country from my family...plus she was three weeks "late"! it
was so wonderfully calming and soothing for all three of us to
meditate with, even if we didn't actually sleep we felt revived and
refreshed in the morning.
it made it so easy to name the baby: she told us what her name was!
we've not known any other larkin irl but have heard of a few via the
media.
anyhoo, enjoy the music.
cris
--- In [email protected], "hamsder clan" <hamsder@...>
wrote:
_to the essence of a candle_ was what we listened to over and over,
especially during the last month as dh and I tried to sleep on my
single layer futon in our studio apt in oakland ca on the other side
of the country from my family...plus she was three weeks "late"! it
was so wonderfully calming and soothing for all three of us to
meditate with, even if we didn't actually sleep we felt revived and
refreshed in the morning.
it made it so easy to name the baby: she told us what her name was!
we've not known any other larkin irl but have heard of a few via the
media.
anyhoo, enjoy the music.
cris
--- In [email protected], "hamsder clan" <hamsder@...>
wrote:
>
> we had never heard of the name before, but these days it seems like
> everyone has known someone named larkin (or, in one case, a building
> named larkin) when we introduce her. :) we'll have to look up
> stentz... haven't heard of them. our small-town midwife actually had a
> couple name their son larkin about two months after our larkin was
> born. i don't think it's in danger of becoming the next susan or
> heather (or jennifer!), though. :)
>
> jenny
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 10:51 AM, cris <muddpies@...> wrote:
> >> all the best,
> >>
> >> jenny (larkin, 3.5, finn 1.5)
> >>
> >
> > ...I got this very major adrenaline rush and spurt of joy when I saw
> > that your babe is named larkin!!!!
> > my girl who's now 23 is named larkin (after larkin stentz whose music
> > we both loved while she was in utero)
> > so silly and sorry everybody - I think this is my very first post on
> > ub and it's not very helpful, is it. (she said with a sheepish grin)
> >
> > cris
> >
> >
>
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: cris <muddpies@...>
we've not known any other larkin irl but have heard of a few via the
media.
-=-=--
There'll be a boy named Larkin at the conference. I'll introduce you
all. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: cris <muddpies@...>
we've not known any other larkin irl but have heard of a few via the
media.
-=-=--
There'll be a boy named Larkin at the conference. I'll introduce you
all. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org