Re: [unschoolingbasics] different approaches was Family Guy
Nance Confer
unschoolingbasics"I would feel awful if I dismissed something that my children liked with the comment that my lack of interest hadn't stopped the world from spinning."
And I don't.
Actually, quite the opposite. I think it frees them to decide what they like for themselves. With or without my enthusiasm.
Now, there are many TVs and several computers in this house. Nobody HAS to watch what the other wants to watch.
And my children are older -- 13 and 15 -- and aren't hanging on my every word.
We went through the things where I pretended to be interested when they were very young. We watched or read things that really, in truth, did not interest me -- Dr. Seuss is neat but . . :)
But then we reached the age of Pokemon cards and there was some other trading card game. I didn't care about them, DS was into them. I drove, I bought, he collected and traded. And talked at me about them but didn't expect me to remember all the details he did. He actually enjoyed knowing things I did not know. It was HIS thing.
And things grew from there, I think. I think that was the turning point. Where he started to have independent activities -- independent from me.
And watching TV around here has always been an interactive activity anyway. We have always sliced and diced ads, for instance.
To the point where DD will remind the rest of us "it's just an ad" or "it's just a show" -- it doesn't actually have to hold together in a perfectly logical way. We get carried away sometimes. :)
I don't know -- we just aren't required to assign value to things because the other person likes it. If I don't like football, I feel free to watch something else and not hide my disdain from DH. After all, he's a Jets fan. He's used to disdain. :)
But he knows, as the kids know, that the disdain is for the game -- or those cars all driving very fast while turning left, what the heck is entertaining about that! -- and not him.
I'm not going to suggest others should live the way we do or that our way is the right way and other ways are not. I'm will suggest that our family dynamic allows for one way of doing things that may or may not fit with other families.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And I don't.
Actually, quite the opposite. I think it frees them to decide what they like for themselves. With or without my enthusiasm.
Now, there are many TVs and several computers in this house. Nobody HAS to watch what the other wants to watch.
And my children are older -- 13 and 15 -- and aren't hanging on my every word.
We went through the things where I pretended to be interested when they were very young. We watched or read things that really, in truth, did not interest me -- Dr. Seuss is neat but . . :)
But then we reached the age of Pokemon cards and there was some other trading card game. I didn't care about them, DS was into them. I drove, I bought, he collected and traded. And talked at me about them but didn't expect me to remember all the details he did. He actually enjoyed knowing things I did not know. It was HIS thing.
And things grew from there, I think. I think that was the turning point. Where he started to have independent activities -- independent from me.
And watching TV around here has always been an interactive activity anyway. We have always sliced and diced ads, for instance.
To the point where DD will remind the rest of us "it's just an ad" or "it's just a show" -- it doesn't actually have to hold together in a perfectly logical way. We get carried away sometimes. :)
I don't know -- we just aren't required to assign value to things because the other person likes it. If I don't like football, I feel free to watch something else and not hide my disdain from DH. After all, he's a Jets fan. He's used to disdain. :)
But he knows, as the kids know, that the disdain is for the game -- or those cars all driving very fast while turning left, what the heck is entertaining about that! -- and not him.
I'm not going to suggest others should live the way we do or that our way is the right way and other ways are not. I'm will suggest that our family dynamic allows for one way of doing things that may or may not fit with other families.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 8, 2008, at 7:59 AM, Nance Confer wrote:
dynamics are altering the feeling of the words. But there's a point
being missed that's useful to building good relationships.
I think it's useful for building relationships to give what kids (and
spouses!) like a good try. And even if you decide you don't like it,
to at least be familiar enough with it to have conversations.
If you've given something a try, it's perfectly okay to say "I don't
really like that show." And talk about why not.
(For instance, I really tried to like The Office. I think the concept
is brilliant. But I get a creepy feeling knowing the characters are
all acting one way to one another and saying something different
behind their backs. I *know* that's the point of the show and why
people find it funny. It just makes me uncomfortable. But I do know
the characters and can understand when they tell me something about it.)
I'm sure my family can tell you what shows I don't like! I don't keep
it a secret. My likes and dislikes don't dictate theirs. And theirs
don't dictate mine. We all know we're free to like or dislike
whatever we do.
I find it useful to appreciate what they like about things I don't
like. It gives use more connections. There are some things that I
just won't be able to get. That's okay too. But I think the more we
try, the better and stronger the relationships we have.
But I don't think it's ever useful for building relationships to
label what someone else likes as stupid or dumb or boring or anything
negative. There are gentler, kinder, more relationship building ways
of sharing our likes and dislikes without using judgmental words.
Even if the members of a family don't find the words hurtful, there
will be other people outside the family who will be put off and feel
put down. And that's a good thing for kids to know, even if their
family is less sensitive.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> we just aren't required to assign value to things because theMaybe you're missing what people are saying. Maybe your family
> other person likes it. If I don't like football, I feel free to
> watch something else and not hide my disdain from DH
dynamics are altering the feeling of the words. But there's a point
being missed that's useful to building good relationships.
I think it's useful for building relationships to give what kids (and
spouses!) like a good try. And even if you decide you don't like it,
to at least be familiar enough with it to have conversations.
If you've given something a try, it's perfectly okay to say "I don't
really like that show." And talk about why not.
(For instance, I really tried to like The Office. I think the concept
is brilliant. But I get a creepy feeling knowing the characters are
all acting one way to one another and saying something different
behind their backs. I *know* that's the point of the show and why
people find it funny. It just makes me uncomfortable. But I do know
the characters and can understand when they tell me something about it.)
I'm sure my family can tell you what shows I don't like! I don't keep
it a secret. My likes and dislikes don't dictate theirs. And theirs
don't dictate mine. We all know we're free to like or dislike
whatever we do.
I find it useful to appreciate what they like about things I don't
like. It gives use more connections. There are some things that I
just won't be able to get. That's okay too. But I think the more we
try, the better and stronger the relationships we have.
But I don't think it's ever useful for building relationships to
label what someone else likes as stupid or dumb or boring or anything
negative. There are gentler, kinder, more relationship building ways
of sharing our likes and dislikes without using judgmental words.
Even if the members of a family don't find the words hurtful, there
will be other people outside the family who will be put off and feel
put down. And that's a good thing for kids to know, even if their
family is less sensitive.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
That's great if the personalities and interactions are such that it works
for your family. There was no need for you to change what you have already
been doing.
However when I was growing up what you're describing is how it was done
there too. And the personalities and interactions were such that it
*didn't* do well (except for the last 2 children --out of 4). I would
describe it as being nonchalant and sometimes careless and even cold about
others.
While some families can afford nonchalance, many families have dynamics
where dismissing what others like grates on the nerves of the one who likes
what someone else doesn't and vice versa. Nonchalance is often a point of
conflict. And that's why the comment about a lack of interest not stopping
the world (who cares about what the world thinks or feels?) from spinning is
not helpful on a list of tons of people who might like nothing better than a
reason (though it might be a bad excuse for them) to keep doing what they're
already doing, which isn't working despite all the justifications in the
world.
Nonchalance for some is no cause for concern. For others, its a *big*
reason the family stays conflicted and unhappy.
~Katherine
for your family. There was no need for you to change what you have already
been doing.
However when I was growing up what you're describing is how it was done
there too. And the personalities and interactions were such that it
*didn't* do well (except for the last 2 children --out of 4). I would
describe it as being nonchalant and sometimes careless and even cold about
others.
While some families can afford nonchalance, many families have dynamics
where dismissing what others like grates on the nerves of the one who likes
what someone else doesn't and vice versa. Nonchalance is often a point of
conflict. And that's why the comment about a lack of interest not stopping
the world (who cares about what the world thinks or feels?) from spinning is
not helpful on a list of tons of people who might like nothing better than a
reason (though it might be a bad excuse for them) to keep doing what they're
already doing, which isn't working despite all the justifications in the
world.
Nonchalance for some is no cause for concern. For others, its a *big*
reason the family stays conflicted and unhappy.
~Katherine
On 8/8/08, Nance Confer <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> unschoolingbasics"I would feel awful if I dismissed something that my
> children liked with the comment that my lack of interest hadn't stopped the
> world from spinning."
>
> And I don't.
>
> Actually, quite the opposite. I think it frees them to decide what they
> like for themselves. With or without my enthusiasm.
>
> Now, there are many TVs and several computers in this house. Nobody HAS to
> watch what the other wants to watch.
>
> And my children are older -- 13 and 15 -- and aren't hanging on my every
> word.
>
> We went through the things where I pretended to be interested when they
> were very young. We watched or read things that really, in truth, did not
> interest me -- Dr. Seuss is neat but . . :)
>
> But then we reached the age of Pokemon cards and there was some other
> trading card game. I didn't care about them, DS was into them. I drove, I
> bought, he collected and traded. And talked at me about them but didn't
> expect me to remember all the details he did. He actually enjoyed knowing
> things I did not know. It was HIS thing.
>
> And things grew from there, I think. I think that was the turning point.
> Where he started to have independent activities -- independent from me.
>
> And watching TV around here has always been an interactive activity anyway.
> We have always sliced and diced ads, for instance.
>
> To the point where DD will remind the rest of us "it's just an ad" or "it's
> just a show" -- it doesn't actually have to hold together in a perfectly
> logical way. We get carried away sometimes. :)
>
> I don't know -- we just aren't required to assign value to things because
> the other person likes it. If I don't like football, I feel free to watch
> something else and not hide my disdain from DH. After all, he's a Jets fan.
> He's used to disdain. :)
>
> But he knows, as the kids know, that the disdain is for the game -- or
> those cars all driving very fast while turning left, what the heck is
> entertaining about that! -- and not him.
>
> I'm not going to suggest others should live the way we do or that our way
> is the right way and other ways are not. I'm will suggest that our family
> dynamic allows for one way of doing things that may or may not fit with
> other families.
>
> Nance
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nance Confer
unschoolingbasicsOK -- note to all people who have this problem -- don't do things the way I do.
Think about how your family works and find out what is helpful and what is not.
Nance
**************
not helpful on a list of tons of people who might like nothing better than a
reason (though it might be a bad excuse for them) to keep doing what they're
already doing, which isn't working despite all the justifications in the
world.
Nonchalance for some is no cause for concern. For others, its a *big*
reason the family stays conflicted and unhappy.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Think about how your family works and find out what is helpful and what is not.
Nance
**************
not helpful on a list of tons of people who might like nothing better than a
reason (though it might be a bad excuse for them) to keep doing what they're
already doing, which isn't working despite all the justifications in the
world.
Nonchalance for some is no cause for concern. For others, its a *big*
reason the family stays conflicted and unhappy.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]