New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
vampyr_mistress1
Hey everyone ...My name is Josie ...and I am new to Unschooling ...I
have a 15 year old daughter and we are very excited about all of this
and cant wait to get started ...but just don't know quite where to
start to be quite honest ....Please if any one can offer a mom some
guidance through here I'd surely appreciate it ....How do we start off
...I understand the world is our classroom and life is our best
teacher ...but I want to be sure I do this right to avoid problems and
so that she might get the best from this experience ....
I need to know what to use as curriculum ? how to document what we
do so that it would be legible to any officials that might need to
look at it ..any and everything ...thanks for any help anyone can
offer ...and I do so look forward to your replies...thanks .Josie and
Stephanie
have a 15 year old daughter and we are very excited about all of this
and cant wait to get started ...but just don't know quite where to
start to be quite honest ....Please if any one can offer a mom some
guidance through here I'd surely appreciate it ....How do we start off
...I understand the world is our classroom and life is our best
teacher ...but I want to be sure I do this right to avoid problems and
so that she might get the best from this experience ....
I need to know what to use as curriculum ? how to document what we
do so that it would be legible to any officials that might need to
look at it ..any and everything ...thanks for any help anyone can
offer ...and I do so look forward to your replies...thanks .Josie and
Stephanie
k
I don't know if you're aware of what radical unschooling is. It doesn't
include curriculum for a lot of reasons that can be gone into on a new
thread like the one you've started but you could simply do what I did and
read. Here:
First things first: Deschooling-- http://sandradodd.com/deschooling --
Deschooling is about relaxing into the unschooling mode after leaving school
and mostly it involves parents, though children who have been to school seem
to need it as well. Just be forewarned that parents seem to need to
deschool longer.
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/ Tons available to read on Joyce's site
http://sandradodd.com/teens
http://sandradodd.com/life
Also books: Teenage Liberation Handbook by Grace Lewellyn
Rue Kream's book is very lowkey to read but wonderful thoughts to relax by:
Parenting a Free Child
~Katherine
include curriculum for a lot of reasons that can be gone into on a new
thread like the one you've started but you could simply do what I did and
read. Here:
First things first: Deschooling-- http://sandradodd.com/deschooling --
Deschooling is about relaxing into the unschooling mode after leaving school
and mostly it involves parents, though children who have been to school seem
to need it as well. Just be forewarned that parents seem to need to
deschool longer.
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/ Tons available to read on Joyce's site
http://sandradodd.com/teens
http://sandradodd.com/life
Also books: Teenage Liberation Handbook by Grace Lewellyn
Rue Kream's book is very lowkey to read but wonderful thoughts to relax by:
Parenting a Free Child
~Katherine
On 8/7/08, vampyr_mistress1 <vampyr_mistress1@...> wrote:
>
> Hey everyone ...My name is Josie ...and I am new to Unschooling ...I
> have a 15 year old daughter and we are very excited about all of this
> and cant wait to get started ...but just don't know quite where to
> start to be quite honest ....Please if any one can offer a mom some
> guidance through here I'd surely appreciate it ....How do we start off
> ...I understand the world is our classroom and life is our best
> teacher ...but I want to be sure I do this right to avoid problems and
> so that she might get the best from this experience ....
> I need to know what to use as curriculum ? how to document what we
> do so that it would be legible to any officials that might need to
> look at it ..any and everything ...thanks for any help anyone can
> offer ...and I do so look forward to your replies...thanks .Josie and
> Stephanie
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon
My suggestion is hard. Sit back and talk about the things you liked and
disliked about school. Nix everything you didn't like and focus on the
things you like. Visit some museums, arcades, take some classes together
(cooking, dancing, auto machanics) and don't forget to stop for lunch. The
internet is good for researching what is out there that might interest you
and finding places to learn more about it. Opps, studying bugs and pet slugs
lead to green living which lead to raising worms and feeding them your trash
which lead to recycling. see where I am going?
My kids are younger (8, 3 1/2 and six months) first we get the question - I
wonder. or What is. or How far? Funny enough if I had to say what my son's
current subject was. his parents. Currently he is renting from Netflix all
the cartoons me and his dad used to watch as kids. Some of the cartoons I
used to sit and watch mesmerized like a zombie are awful but he is learning
--- something? At my children's request we subscribe to time4learning. a
little schooly for my tastes but it is very game oriented and they do it at
their own pace.
Very important especially for teen though is to keep a log of what they do
for looking back and transcripts if she decides to go to college.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of vampyr_mistress1
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
Hey everyone ...My name is Josie ...and I am new to Unschooling ...I
have a 15 year old daughter and we are very excited about all of this
and cant wait to get started ...but just don't know quite where to
start to be quite honest ....Please if any one can offer a mom some
guidance through here I'd surely appreciate it ....How do we start off
...I understand the world is our classroom and life is our best
teacher ...but I want to be sure I do this right to avoid problems and
so that she might get the best from this experience ....
I need to know what to use as curriculum ? how to document what we
do so that it would be legible to any officials that might need to
look at it ..any and everything ...thanks for any help anyone can
offer ...and I do so look forward to your replies...thanks .Josie and
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
disliked about school. Nix everything you didn't like and focus on the
things you like. Visit some museums, arcades, take some classes together
(cooking, dancing, auto machanics) and don't forget to stop for lunch. The
internet is good for researching what is out there that might interest you
and finding places to learn more about it. Opps, studying bugs and pet slugs
lead to green living which lead to raising worms and feeding them your trash
which lead to recycling. see where I am going?
My kids are younger (8, 3 1/2 and six months) first we get the question - I
wonder. or What is. or How far? Funny enough if I had to say what my son's
current subject was. his parents. Currently he is renting from Netflix all
the cartoons me and his dad used to watch as kids. Some of the cartoons I
used to sit and watch mesmerized like a zombie are awful but he is learning
--- something? At my children's request we subscribe to time4learning. a
little schooly for my tastes but it is very game oriented and they do it at
their own pace.
Very important especially for teen though is to keep a log of what they do
for looking back and transcripts if she decides to go to college.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of vampyr_mistress1
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
Hey everyone ...My name is Josie ...and I am new to Unschooling ...I
have a 15 year old daughter and we are very excited about all of this
and cant wait to get started ...but just don't know quite where to
start to be quite honest ....Please if any one can offer a mom some
guidance through here I'd surely appreciate it ....How do we start off
...I understand the world is our classroom and life is our best
teacher ...but I want to be sure I do this right to avoid problems and
so that she might get the best from this experience ....
I need to know what to use as curriculum ? how to document what we
do so that it would be legible to any officials that might need to
look at it ..any and everything ...thanks for any help anyone can
offer ...and I do so look forward to your replies...thanks .Josie and
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vampyr mistress
Thanks for the info ..I do appreciate it so much ...
----- Original Message ----
From: Shannon <dragteine76@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 6:33:33 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
My suggestion is hard. Sit back and talk about the things you liked and
disliked about school. Nix everything you didn't like and focus on the
things you like. Visit some museums, arcades, take some classes together
(cooking, dancing, auto machanics) and don't forget to stop for lunch. The
internet is good for researching what is out there that might interest you
and finding places to learn more about it. Opps, studying bugs and pet slugs
lead to green living which lead to raising worms and feeding them your trash
which lead to recycling. see where I am going?
My kids are younger (8, 3 1/2 and six months) first we get the question - I
wonder. or What is. or How far? Funny enough if I had to say what my son's
current subject was. his parents. Currently he is renting from Netflix all
the cartoons me and his dad used to watch as kids. Some of the cartoons I
used to sit and watch mesmerized like a zombie are awful but he is learning
--- something? At my children's request we subscribe to time4learning. a
little schooly for my tastes but it is very game oriented and they do it at
their own pace.
Very important especially for teen though is to keep a log of what they do
for looking back and transcripts if she decides to go to college.
Shannon
_____
From: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of vampyr_mistress1
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:46 AM
To: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
Hey everyone ...My name is Josie ...and I am new to Unschooling ...I
have a 15 year old daughter and we are very excited about all of this
and cant wait to get started ...but just don't know quite where to
start to be quite honest ....Please if any one can offer a mom some
guidance through here I'd surely appreciate it ....How do we start off
...I understand the world is our classroom and life is our best
teacher ...but I want to be sure I do this right to avoid problems and
so that she might get the best from this experience ....
I need to know what to use as curriculum ? how to document what we
do so that it would be legible to any officials that might need to
look at it ..any and everything ...thanks for any help anyone can
offer ...and I do so look forward to your replies...thanks .Josie and
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: Shannon <dragteine76@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 6:33:33 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
My suggestion is hard. Sit back and talk about the things you liked and
disliked about school. Nix everything you didn't like and focus on the
things you like. Visit some museums, arcades, take some classes together
(cooking, dancing, auto machanics) and don't forget to stop for lunch. The
internet is good for researching what is out there that might interest you
and finding places to learn more about it. Opps, studying bugs and pet slugs
lead to green living which lead to raising worms and feeding them your trash
which lead to recycling. see where I am going?
My kids are younger (8, 3 1/2 and six months) first we get the question - I
wonder. or What is. or How far? Funny enough if I had to say what my son's
current subject was. his parents. Currently he is renting from Netflix all
the cartoons me and his dad used to watch as kids. Some of the cartoons I
used to sit and watch mesmerized like a zombie are awful but he is learning
--- something? At my children's request we subscribe to time4learning. a
little schooly for my tastes but it is very game oriented and they do it at
their own pace.
Very important especially for teen though is to keep a log of what they do
for looking back and transcripts if she decides to go to college.
Shannon
_____
From: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of vampyr_mistress1
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:46 AM
To: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
Hey everyone ...My name is Josie ...and I am new to Unschooling ...I
have a 15 year old daughter and we are very excited about all of this
and cant wait to get started ...but just don't know quite where to
start to be quite honest ....Please if any one can offer a mom some
guidance through here I'd surely appreciate it ....How do we start off
...I understand the world is our classroom and life is our best
teacher ...but I want to be sure I do this right to avoid problems and
so that she might get the best from this experience ....
I need to know what to use as curriculum ? how to document what we
do so that it would be legible to any officials that might need to
look at it ..any and everything ...thanks for any help anyone can
offer ...and I do so look forward to your replies...thanks .Josie and
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Nishan
Hi Josie and Stephanie
My daughter lizzy is also 15 and left school ayear and a half ago. At
first she wanted me to give her assignments and she worked at ALgebra
from a text. It was what she was used to so she felt kind of attatched
to the "school" way of doing things. After awhile she just slept and
rested a lot. Played games on the computer and watched tv. Things
that for the most part rested her mind. The she went to Not back to
School Camp in Vermont and met over a 100 other unschooling teenagers
along withthe really cool staff and Grace Llewellen. During this past
year she has done so many things. SHe has happily explored a bunch of
different things that interest her. I think the most important thing
though is she knows herself. She has a clear idea of what she thinks
and believes and who she wants to be friends with. I may not always
agree with all her decisions but I have peace of mind that she can make
her own decisions and not be led by anyone she does not respect.
Don't be afraid to take a good long break. Any "catching up" you may
feel the need for really will take care of itself when you are ready.
Do what you want to do not what you think you should do. If you allow
yourselves a year to just be free I am very confident you will both be
better prepared for whatever you choose to do next. I can't even begin
to tell you the changes in Lizzy and myself from ayear ago. We are
both more confident and comfortable with ourselves.
Kelly
In [email protected], "vampyr_mistress1"
<vampyr_mistress1@...> wrote:
My daughter lizzy is also 15 and left school ayear and a half ago. At
first she wanted me to give her assignments and she worked at ALgebra
from a text. It was what she was used to so she felt kind of attatched
to the "school" way of doing things. After awhile she just slept and
rested a lot. Played games on the computer and watched tv. Things
that for the most part rested her mind. The she went to Not back to
School Camp in Vermont and met over a 100 other unschooling teenagers
along withthe really cool staff and Grace Llewellen. During this past
year she has done so many things. SHe has happily explored a bunch of
different things that interest her. I think the most important thing
though is she knows herself. She has a clear idea of what she thinks
and believes and who she wants to be friends with. I may not always
agree with all her decisions but I have peace of mind that she can make
her own decisions and not be led by anyone she does not respect.
Don't be afraid to take a good long break. Any "catching up" you may
feel the need for really will take care of itself when you are ready.
Do what you want to do not what you think you should do. If you allow
yourselves a year to just be free I am very confident you will both be
better prepared for whatever you choose to do next. I can't even begin
to tell you the changes in Lizzy and myself from ayear ago. We are
both more confident and comfortable with ourselves.
Kelly
In [email protected], "vampyr_mistress1"
<vampyr_mistress1@...> wrote:
>
> Hey everyone ...My name is Josie ...and I am new to Unschooling ...I
> have a 15 year old daughter and we are very excited about all of this
> and cant wait to get started ...but just don't know quite where to
> start to be quite honest ....Please if any one can offer a mom some
> guidance through here I'd surely appreciate it ....How do we start off
> ...I understand the world is our classroom and life is our best
> teacher ...but I want to be sure I do this right to avoid problems and
> so that she might get the best from this experience ....
> I need to know what to use as curriculum ? how to document what we
> do so that it would be legible to any officials that might need to
> look at it ..any and everything ...thanks for any help anyone can
> offer ...and I do so look forward to your replies...thanks .Josie and
> Stephanie
>
vampyr mistress
Hey Kelly ...
Thanks so much for your kind and knowledgeable words ...I see where your coming from ...its a little confusing to see how it all works after this many years of "schooling" and doing what the government said I had to do for my kids ....It just seems so wonderful ...cause there are so many useless things kids learn in school ...Stephanie and I are very excited ...and we have talked of many things to do and places to go and things to see and learn ...Only now it will be without fear and torment so she can actually learn something and not just remember it until a bloody test is given ......I know it is going to be hard to get out of the old school habits ...but we are both ready and willing to try ...
I will probably be asking alot of trivial questions along the way as well... and i guess after I get going with it it will be as simple as I've heard ...I just hope everyone can bare with me during this time ..
I just want her to be able to live and learn ...and understand that not everyone in the world will make that as difficult as public schooling has through out these years ....She is intelligent and earger to learn ...but its so hard when your fearful of your surroundings ....
I suppose right now I am a bit confused on the keeping of a day planner or track of what we have done ....just the how to write it ....I guess ..I have looked around in hopes of finding a example ...but haven't yet ....We take alot of photos anywhere we go ...so thats a plus there cause I have heard others speak of
them being a very good way to show and remember ...but just writing it down ...where it makes since to anyone but me is the problem ....I dont want anyone to show up at my door asking for proof and I not have it legible if you know what I mean ....
But please know that I do so appreciate any advice or ideas that you or anyone has to offer ....And if anyone has any thing they would like to send me that might get me through this my email is vampyr_mistress1@... ....I look forward to keeping in touch with everyone on here ...thanks again ...Josie and Stephanie
----- Original Message ----
From: Kelly Nishan <kel9769@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:49:40 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
Hi Josie and Stephanie
My daughter lizzy is also 15 and left school ayear and a half ago. At
first she wanted me to give her assignments and she worked at ALgebra
from a text. It was what she was used to so she felt kind of attatched
to the "school" way of doing things. After awhile she just slept and
rested a lot. Played games on the computer and watched tv. Things
that for the most part rested her mind. The she went to Not back to
School Camp in Vermont and met over a 100 other unschooling teenagers
along withthe really cool staff and Grace Llewellen. During this past
year she has done so many things. SHe has happily explored a bunch of
different things that interest her. I think the most important thing
though is she knows herself. She has a clear idea of what she thinks
and believes and who she wants to be friends with. I may not always
agree with all her decisions but I have peace of mind that she can make
her own decisions and not be led by anyone she does not respect.
Don't be afraid to take a good long break. Any "catching up" you may
feel the need for really will take care of itself when you are ready.
Do what you want to do not what you think you should do. If you allow
yourselves a year to just be free I am very confident you will both be
better prepared for whatever you choose to do next. I can't even begin
to tell you the changes in Lizzy and myself from ayear ago. We are
both more confident and comfortable with ourselves.
Kelly
In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "vampyr_mistress1"
<vampyr_mistress1@ ...> wrote:
Thanks so much for your kind and knowledgeable words ...I see where your coming from ...its a little confusing to see how it all works after this many years of "schooling" and doing what the government said I had to do for my kids ....It just seems so wonderful ...cause there are so many useless things kids learn in school ...Stephanie and I are very excited ...and we have talked of many things to do and places to go and things to see and learn ...Only now it will be without fear and torment so she can actually learn something and not just remember it until a bloody test is given ......I know it is going to be hard to get out of the old school habits ...but we are both ready and willing to try ...
I will probably be asking alot of trivial questions along the way as well... and i guess after I get going with it it will be as simple as I've heard ...I just hope everyone can bare with me during this time ..
I just want her to be able to live and learn ...and understand that not everyone in the world will make that as difficult as public schooling has through out these years ....She is intelligent and earger to learn ...but its so hard when your fearful of your surroundings ....
I suppose right now I am a bit confused on the keeping of a day planner or track of what we have done ....just the how to write it ....I guess ..I have looked around in hopes of finding a example ...but haven't yet ....We take alot of photos anywhere we go ...so thats a plus there cause I have heard others speak of
them being a very good way to show and remember ...but just writing it down ...where it makes since to anyone but me is the problem ....I dont want anyone to show up at my door asking for proof and I not have it legible if you know what I mean ....
But please know that I do so appreciate any advice or ideas that you or anyone has to offer ....And if anyone has any thing they would like to send me that might get me through this my email is vampyr_mistress1@... ....I look forward to keeping in touch with everyone on here ...thanks again ...Josie and Stephanie
----- Original Message ----
From: Kelly Nishan <kel9769@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:49:40 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
Hi Josie and Stephanie
My daughter lizzy is also 15 and left school ayear and a half ago. At
first she wanted me to give her assignments and she worked at ALgebra
from a text. It was what she was used to so she felt kind of attatched
to the "school" way of doing things. After awhile she just slept and
rested a lot. Played games on the computer and watched tv. Things
that for the most part rested her mind. The she went to Not back to
School Camp in Vermont and met over a 100 other unschooling teenagers
along withthe really cool staff and Grace Llewellen. During this past
year she has done so many things. SHe has happily explored a bunch of
different things that interest her. I think the most important thing
though is she knows herself. She has a clear idea of what she thinks
and believes and who she wants to be friends with. I may not always
agree with all her decisions but I have peace of mind that she can make
her own decisions and not be led by anyone she does not respect.
Don't be afraid to take a good long break. Any "catching up" you may
feel the need for really will take care of itself when you are ready.
Do what you want to do not what you think you should do. If you allow
yourselves a year to just be free I am very confident you will both be
better prepared for whatever you choose to do next. I can't even begin
to tell you the changes in Lizzy and myself from ayear ago. We are
both more confident and comfortable with ourselves.
Kelly
In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "vampyr_mistress1"
<vampyr_mistress1@ ...> wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Hey everyone ...My name is Josie ...and I am new to Unschooling ...I
> have a 15 year old daughter and we are very excited about all of this
> and cant wait to get started ...but just don't know quite where to
> start to be quite honest ....Please if any one can offer a mom some
> guidance through here I'd surely appreciate it ....How do we start off
> ...I understand the world is our classroom and life is our best
> teacher ...but I want to be sure I do this right to avoid problems and
> so that she might get the best from this experience ....
> I need to know what to use as curriculum ? how to document what we
> do so that it would be legible to any officials that might need to
> look at it ..any and everything ...thanks for any help anyone can
> offer ...and I do so look forward to your replies...thanks .Josie and
> Stephanie
>
Kelly Nishan
Josie
Most of what is required for documentation depends on where you live.
I found what was required in my state on th HSLDA site and then found
other home schoolers to help me get started. For me doing a a
progress report was too hard the first year becuase as I said she just
needed to rest. So instead she took the CAT and I sent in the
results. This year I found it very easy to write a progress note.
First I wrote a list of all the things we did this year and just
started writing without trying to put it into subject boxes. I
suprised myself by writting 2 1/2 pages. I will send you a copy off
list just to give you an idea.
Taking the less trodden path is not always the easier way but is often
more pleasant. That's where most of the flowers are : )
Kelly
Most of what is required for documentation depends on where you live.
I found what was required in my state on th HSLDA site and then found
other home schoolers to help me get started. For me doing a a
progress report was too hard the first year becuase as I said she just
needed to rest. So instead she took the CAT and I sent in the
results. This year I found it very easy to write a progress note.
First I wrote a list of all the things we did this year and just
started writing without trying to put it into subject boxes. I
suprised myself by writting 2 1/2 pages. I will send you a copy off
list just to give you an idea.
Taking the less trodden path is not always the easier way but is often
more pleasant. That's where most of the flowers are : )
Kelly
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: vampyr mistress <vampyr_mistress1@...>
I just want her to be able to live and learn ...
-=-=-=-
What a WONDERFUL name for a conference!
www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-=-=-=-=-
I suppose right now I am a bit confused on the keeping of a day
planner or
track of what we have done ....just the how to write it ....I guess ..I
have
looked around in hopes of finding a example ...but haven't yet ....We
take alot
of photos anywhere we go ...so thats a plus there cause I have heard
others
speak of them being a very good way to show and remember ...but just
writing it down
...where it makes since to anyone but me is the problem ....I dont want
anyone
to show up at my door asking for proof and I not have it legible if you
know
what I mean ....
-=-=-=-=-
For out-of-staters: in SC we are required to keep a daily
log/planner/journal/blog of the activities and learning that we engage
in/pursue with our children.
I keep a daytimer i which I write all that we do. A LOT in advance,
because if I don't write it down, I'll forget (like park days or trips
somewhere or classes we take or whatever). So, it's an "appointment
book." I also write things down *after* the fact, because a lot of
learning *happens* withOUT an appointment! <g>
I write down snippets of conversations that we have---like during a
movie or in the car. Many people disregard conversations: they are
probably THE most important activity we engage in as far as our
learning goes. So, after a political ad, we may discuss the candidates:
political science. When the puppy ran by with a tampon in her mouth: a
brief conversation about health & hygiene. <g> Or---recently a history
moment: "Jim Crow" was mentioned somewhere (probably Family Guy! <G>).
It fueled a 20-30 minute chat about the Civil War and racial tension
and caste systems abroad and how I remember (but barely) some of the
Jim Crow signs and the race riots as a small child (I was born in
1960)...and all sorts of related things. Chances are that the boys will
remember that way better than a chapter in a US history book. They may
not be able to recite a litany of facts, but the *idea* of Jim Crow is
there---they will make further connections as they learn and grow.
Don't discount *small* a-ha moments of learning!!! They *count*!!
Oh---and if you don't know---look it up! Don't be shy about not knowing
an answer! We found out more about Jim Crow Laws by googling it.
In school, kids are often isolated from REAL conversations. They spend
a LOT of their time *answering* questions---when what they want and
need is to ASK questions and get good, helpful answers. Often their
conversation at home revolve around "what's on the test" schoolwork and
homework and eating and sleeping and soccer/piano practice. They don't
get to *share* and ask/have answered questions that are meaningful *to
them*.
Unschooling allows a LOT of time for that kind of shared learning. It
allows a LOT of time for questions and ponderings. They're IMPORTANT.
Include them in your documentation!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: vampyr mistress <vampyr_mistress1@...>
I just want her to be able to live and learn ...
-=-=-=-
What a WONDERFUL name for a conference!
www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-=-=-=-=-
I suppose right now I am a bit confused on the keeping of a day
planner or
track of what we have done ....just the how to write it ....I guess ..I
have
looked around in hopes of finding a example ...but haven't yet ....We
take alot
of photos anywhere we go ...so thats a plus there cause I have heard
others
speak of them being a very good way to show and remember ...but just
writing it down
...where it makes since to anyone but me is the problem ....I dont want
anyone
to show up at my door asking for proof and I not have it legible if you
know
what I mean ....
-=-=-=-=-
For out-of-staters: in SC we are required to keep a daily
log/planner/journal/blog of the activities and learning that we engage
in/pursue with our children.
I keep a daytimer i which I write all that we do. A LOT in advance,
because if I don't write it down, I'll forget (like park days or trips
somewhere or classes we take or whatever). So, it's an "appointment
book." I also write things down *after* the fact, because a lot of
learning *happens* withOUT an appointment! <g>
I write down snippets of conversations that we have---like during a
movie or in the car. Many people disregard conversations: they are
probably THE most important activity we engage in as far as our
learning goes. So, after a political ad, we may discuss the candidates:
political science. When the puppy ran by with a tampon in her mouth: a
brief conversation about health & hygiene. <g> Or---recently a history
moment: "Jim Crow" was mentioned somewhere (probably Family Guy! <G>).
It fueled a 20-30 minute chat about the Civil War and racial tension
and caste systems abroad and how I remember (but barely) some of the
Jim Crow signs and the race riots as a small child (I was born in
1960)...and all sorts of related things. Chances are that the boys will
remember that way better than a chapter in a US history book. They may
not be able to recite a litany of facts, but the *idea* of Jim Crow is
there---they will make further connections as they learn and grow.
Don't discount *small* a-ha moments of learning!!! They *count*!!
Oh---and if you don't know---look it up! Don't be shy about not knowing
an answer! We found out more about Jim Crow Laws by googling it.
In school, kids are often isolated from REAL conversations. They spend
a LOT of their time *answering* questions---when what they want and
need is to ASK questions and get good, helpful answers. Often their
conversation at home revolve around "what's on the test" schoolwork and
homework and eating and sleeping and soccer/piano practice. They don't
get to *share* and ask/have answered questions that are meaningful *to
them*.
Unschooling allows a LOT of time for that kind of shared learning. It
allows a LOT of time for questions and ponderings. They're IMPORTANT.
Include them in your documentation!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
vampyr mistress
I guess it will all fall into lace eventually ....I hope so ....Heres another question ...Are unschoolers required to take the standardized test here in SC ?
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 4:35:50 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
-----Original Message-----
From: vampyr mistress <vampyr_mistress1@ yahoo.com>
I just want her to be able to live and learn ...
-=-=-=-
What a WONDERFUL name for a conference!
www.LiveandLearnCon ference.org
-=-=-=-=-
I suppose right now I am a bit confused on the keeping of a day
planner or
track of what we have done ....just the how to write it ....I guess ..I
have
looked around in hopes of finding a example ...but haven't yet ....We
take alot
of photos anywhere we go ...so thats a plus there cause I have heard
others
speak of them being a very good way to show and remember ...but just
writing it down
...where it makes since to anyone but me is the problem ....I dont want
anyone
to show up at my door asking for proof and I not have it legible if you
know
what I mean ....
-=-=-=-=-
For out-of-staters: in SC we are required to keep a daily
log/planner/ journal/blog of the activities and learning that we engage
in/pursue with our children.
I keep a daytimer i which I write all that we do. A LOT in advance,
because if I don't write it down, I'll forget (like park days or trips
somewhere or classes we take or whatever). So, it's an "appointment
book." I also write things down *after* the fact, because a lot of
learning *happens* withOUT an appointment! <g>
I write down snippets of conversations that we have---like during a
movie or in the car. Many people disregard conversations: they are
probably THE most important activity we engage in as far as our
learning goes. So, after a political ad, we may discuss the candidates:
political science. When the puppy ran by with a tampon in her mouth: a
brief conversation about health & hygiene. <g> Or---recently a history
moment: "Jim Crow" was mentioned somewhere (probably Family Guy! <G>).
It fueled a 20-30 minute chat about the Civil War and racial tension
and caste systems abroad and how I remember (but barely) some of the
Jim Crow signs and the race riots as a small child (I was born in
1960)...and all sorts of related things. Chances are that the boys will
remember that way better than a chapter in a US history book. They may
not be able to recite a litany of facts, but the *idea* of Jim Crow is
there---they will make further connections as they learn and grow.
Don't discount *small* a-ha moments of learning!!! They *count*!!
Oh---and if you don't know---look it up! Don't be shy about not knowing
an answer! We found out more about Jim Crow Laws by googling it.
In school, kids are often isolated from REAL conversations. They spend
a LOT of their time *answering* questions--- when what they want and
need is to ASK questions and get good, helpful answers. Often their
conversation at home revolve around "what's on the test" schoolwork and
homework and eating and sleeping and soccer/piano practice. They don't
get to *share* and ask/have answered questions that are meaningful *to
them*.
Unschooling allows a LOT of time for that kind of shared learning. It
allows a LOT of time for questions and ponderings. They're IMPORTANT.
Include them in your documentation!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 4:35:50 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to Unschooling ...any help appreciated ...
-----Original Message-----
From: vampyr mistress <vampyr_mistress1@ yahoo.com>
I just want her to be able to live and learn ...
-=-=-=-
What a WONDERFUL name for a conference!
www.LiveandLearnCon ference.org
-=-=-=-=-
I suppose right now I am a bit confused on the keeping of a day
planner or
track of what we have done ....just the how to write it ....I guess ..I
have
looked around in hopes of finding a example ...but haven't yet ....We
take alot
of photos anywhere we go ...so thats a plus there cause I have heard
others
speak of them being a very good way to show and remember ...but just
writing it down
...where it makes since to anyone but me is the problem ....I dont want
anyone
to show up at my door asking for proof and I not have it legible if you
know
what I mean ....
-=-=-=-=-
For out-of-staters: in SC we are required to keep a daily
log/planner/ journal/blog of the activities and learning that we engage
in/pursue with our children.
I keep a daytimer i which I write all that we do. A LOT in advance,
because if I don't write it down, I'll forget (like park days or trips
somewhere or classes we take or whatever). So, it's an "appointment
book." I also write things down *after* the fact, because a lot of
learning *happens* withOUT an appointment! <g>
I write down snippets of conversations that we have---like during a
movie or in the car. Many people disregard conversations: they are
probably THE most important activity we engage in as far as our
learning goes. So, after a political ad, we may discuss the candidates:
political science. When the puppy ran by with a tampon in her mouth: a
brief conversation about health & hygiene. <g> Or---recently a history
moment: "Jim Crow" was mentioned somewhere (probably Family Guy! <G>).
It fueled a 20-30 minute chat about the Civil War and racial tension
and caste systems abroad and how I remember (but barely) some of the
Jim Crow signs and the race riots as a small child (I was born in
1960)...and all sorts of related things. Chances are that the boys will
remember that way better than a chapter in a US history book. They may
not be able to recite a litany of facts, but the *idea* of Jim Crow is
there---they will make further connections as they learn and grow.
Don't discount *small* a-ha moments of learning!!! They *count*!!
Oh---and if you don't know---look it up! Don't be shy about not knowing
an answer! We found out more about Jim Crow Laws by googling it.
In school, kids are often isolated from REAL conversations. They spend
a LOT of their time *answering* questions--- when what they want and
need is to ASK questions and get good, helpful answers. Often their
conversation at home revolve around "what's on the test" schoolwork and
homework and eating and sleeping and soccer/piano practice. They don't
get to *share* and ask/have answered questions that are meaningful *to
them*.
Unschooling allows a LOT of time for that kind of shared learning. It
allows a LOT of time for questions and ponderings. They're IMPORTANT.
Include them in your documentation!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: vampyr mistress <vampyr_mistress1@...>
I guess it will all fall into lace eventually ....I hope so
....Heres
another question ...Are unschoolers required to take the standardized
test here
in SC ?
-===-=-
Wellll...now we're getting too state-specific. <g> These kinds of
questions are best asked on a state/local list.
But there is no standardized testing requirement for homeschoolers in
SC.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: vampyr mistress <vampyr_mistress1@...>
I guess it will all fall into lace eventually ....I hope so
....Heres
another question ...Are unschoolers required to take the standardized
test here
in SC ?
-===-=-
Wellll...now we're getting too state-specific. <g> These kinds of
questions are best asked on a state/local list.
But there is no standardized testing requirement for homeschoolers in
SC.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
vampyr mistress
Thats great ...thank you ...
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 10:29:07 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: South Carolina question WAS: New to Unschooling
-----Original Message-----
From: vampyr mistress <vampyr_mistress1@ yahoo.com>
I guess it will all fall into lace eventually ....I hope so
....Heres
another question ...Are unschoolers required to take the standardized
test here
in SC ?
-===-=-
Wellll...now we're getting too state-specific. <g> These kinds of
questions are best asked on a state/local list.
But there is no standardized testing requirement for homeschoolers in
SC.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 10:29:07 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: South Carolina question WAS: New to Unschooling
-----Original Message-----
From: vampyr mistress <vampyr_mistress1@ yahoo.com>
I guess it will all fall into lace eventually ....I hope so
....Heres
another question ...Are unschoolers required to take the standardized
test here
in SC ?
-===-=-
Wellll...now we're getting too state-specific. <g> These kinds of
questions are best asked on a state/local list.
But there is no standardized testing requirement for homeschoolers in
SC.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>I have heard lots of advice in the past to steer clear of H$LDA. Their info
> I found what was required in my state on th HSLDA site and then found
> other home schoolers to help me get started.
and help is a mixed bag. Others have more on that.
Try here: http://www.nhen.org/ <http://www.nhen.org/forum/> and they have a
forum for questions.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
castlecarver
Hi Josie and Stephanie,
I've been home schooling my son since 2nd grade. He is in 6th grade
this year. Last year was my first year "Un-schooling" And we still do
a lot of schoolish things...
But my basic approach was to give my son a copy of the state laws
concerning home schooling and a little talk.
The talk included the fact that I believe the best learning is self
learning and that he is in charge of what to learn and how to learn
it, but in order to comply with the laws he must learn something about
each of the 5 basic subjects. I also talked to him about the state
laws and what would be required of us should DSS come knocking on our
door. I then put him in charge of his daily plan-book/diary, and
attendance chart.
We made this agreement. He is to keep up with the plan book and I am
to approve it at the end of each day. We decided to continue using the
basic format that I started using when he was in 2nd grade. I used
Microsoft Word to create a file. Made a new page for each day and
wrote a sentence about what we did for each subject that day. I print
out each page and put a paper copy in a large 3 ring binder. But the
same file gets passed back and forth between us. Pretty simple.
Each day DS e-mails me the file with what he has done in his words and
I e-mail it back with my suggestions. At first it was just 10
sentences like "Mom, Today I did ___ to help me learn ___ about math.
Tomorrow I plan to ..." and so forth. I always send a response back
"Dear Son, That was a good idea what do you think of trying ___ for
Math tomorrow?" So we passed this one file back and forth through
e-mail 180 times.
As time has passed this file has grown to include embedded photos.
Links to resources he used online. Videos and mp3 clips of him
practicing banjo, biking, hiking etc. The best part about it is that
had I not given the responsibility of creating his own plan-book/diary
I would never have done that stuff. He did that all on his own. He
also decided that having an online course for math works best for him.
But playing Warcraft was the best reading course he could possibly
imagine because if you can't read or don't understand the words you
can't advance in that game.
Anyhow, this might not work for you but we have grown closer because
of it. And it does satisfy the current state laws.
Sandi
I've been home schooling my son since 2nd grade. He is in 6th grade
this year. Last year was my first year "Un-schooling" And we still do
a lot of schoolish things...
But my basic approach was to give my son a copy of the state laws
concerning home schooling and a little talk.
The talk included the fact that I believe the best learning is self
learning and that he is in charge of what to learn and how to learn
it, but in order to comply with the laws he must learn something about
each of the 5 basic subjects. I also talked to him about the state
laws and what would be required of us should DSS come knocking on our
door. I then put him in charge of his daily plan-book/diary, and
attendance chart.
We made this agreement. He is to keep up with the plan book and I am
to approve it at the end of each day. We decided to continue using the
basic format that I started using when he was in 2nd grade. I used
Microsoft Word to create a file. Made a new page for each day and
wrote a sentence about what we did for each subject that day. I print
out each page and put a paper copy in a large 3 ring binder. But the
same file gets passed back and forth between us. Pretty simple.
Each day DS e-mails me the file with what he has done in his words and
I e-mail it back with my suggestions. At first it was just 10
sentences like "Mom, Today I did ___ to help me learn ___ about math.
Tomorrow I plan to ..." and so forth. I always send a response back
"Dear Son, That was a good idea what do you think of trying ___ for
Math tomorrow?" So we passed this one file back and forth through
e-mail 180 times.
As time has passed this file has grown to include embedded photos.
Links to resources he used online. Videos and mp3 clips of him
practicing banjo, biking, hiking etc. The best part about it is that
had I not given the responsibility of creating his own plan-book/diary
I would never have done that stuff. He did that all on his own. He
also decided that having an online course for math works best for him.
But playing Warcraft was the best reading course he could possibly
imagine because if you can't read or don't understand the words you
can't advance in that game.
Anyhow, this might not work for you but we have grown closer because
of it. And it does satisfy the current state laws.
Sandi
castlecarver
Hi Josie and Stephanie,
I've been home schooling my son since 2nd grade. He is in 6th grade
this year. Last year was my first year "Un-schooling" And we still do
a lot of schoolish things...
But my basic approach was to give my son a copy of the state laws
concerning home schooling and a little talk.
The talk included the fact that I believe the best learning is self
learning and that he is in charge of what to learn and how to learn
it, but in order to comply with the laws he must learn something about
each of the 5 basic subjects. I also talked to him about the state
laws and what would be required of us should DSS come knocking on our
door. I then put him in charge of his daily plan-book/diary, and
attendance chart.
We made this agreement. He is to keep up with the plan book and I am
to approve it at the end of each day. We decided to continue using the
basic format that I started using when he was in 2nd grade. I used
Microsoft Word to create a file. Made a new page for each day and
wrote a sentence about what we did for each subject that day. I print
out each page and put a paper copy in a large 3 ring binder. But the
same file gets passed back and forth between us. Pretty simple.
Each day DS e-mails me the file with what he has done in his words and
I e-mail it back with my suggestions. At first it was just 10
sentences like "Mom, Today I did ___ to help me learn ___ about math.
Tomorrow I plan to ..." and so forth. I always send a response back
"Dear Son, That was a good idea what do you think of trying ___ for
Math tomorrow?" So we passed this one file back and forth through
e-mail 180 times.
As time has passed this file has grown to include embedded photos.
Links to resources he used online. Videos and mp3 clips of him
practicing banjo, biking, hiking etc. The best part about it is that
had I not given the responsibility of creating his own plan-book/diary
I would never have done that stuff. He did that all on his own. He
also decided that having an online course for math works best for him.
But playing Warcraft was the best reading course he could possibly
imagine because if you can't read or don't understand the words you
can't advance in that game.
Anyhow, this might not work for you but we have grown closer because
of it. And it does satisfy the current state laws.
Sandi
I've been home schooling my son since 2nd grade. He is in 6th grade
this year. Last year was my first year "Un-schooling" And we still do
a lot of schoolish things...
But my basic approach was to give my son a copy of the state laws
concerning home schooling and a little talk.
The talk included the fact that I believe the best learning is self
learning and that he is in charge of what to learn and how to learn
it, but in order to comply with the laws he must learn something about
each of the 5 basic subjects. I also talked to him about the state
laws and what would be required of us should DSS come knocking on our
door. I then put him in charge of his daily plan-book/diary, and
attendance chart.
We made this agreement. He is to keep up with the plan book and I am
to approve it at the end of each day. We decided to continue using the
basic format that I started using when he was in 2nd grade. I used
Microsoft Word to create a file. Made a new page for each day and
wrote a sentence about what we did for each subject that day. I print
out each page and put a paper copy in a large 3 ring binder. But the
same file gets passed back and forth between us. Pretty simple.
Each day DS e-mails me the file with what he has done in his words and
I e-mail it back with my suggestions. At first it was just 10
sentences like "Mom, Today I did ___ to help me learn ___ about math.
Tomorrow I plan to ..." and so forth. I always send a response back
"Dear Son, That was a good idea what do you think of trying ___ for
Math tomorrow?" So we passed this one file back and forth through
e-mail 180 times.
As time has passed this file has grown to include embedded photos.
Links to resources he used online. Videos and mp3 clips of him
practicing banjo, biking, hiking etc. The best part about it is that
had I not given the responsibility of creating his own plan-book/diary
I would never have done that stuff. He did that all on his own. He
also decided that having an online course for math works best for him.
But playing Warcraft was the best reading course he could possibly
imagine because if you can't read or don't understand the words you
can't advance in that game.
Anyhow, this might not work for you but we have grown closer because
of it. And it does satisfy the current state laws.
Sandi
Kelly Nishan
>Their info
> I have heard lots of advice in the past to steer clear of H$LDA.
> and help is a mixed bag. Others have more on that.have a
>
> Try here: http://www.nhen.org/ <http://www.nhen.org/forum/> and they
> forum for questions.I personally found the information about state laws very helpful. I
>
> ~Katherine
>
wouldn't become a member and I don't get their newsletters anymore
because they weren't helpful to me.
Kelly
>
Deb
--- In [email protected], "Kelly Nishan" <kel9769@...>
wrote:
use their link to the actual sections of state statutes, you can get a
fairly good handle on things (and you'll have the statute section
numbers to go look up) but there are several cases I know of where the
maps and summaries were inaccurate for years, reflecting
their "preference" of what people do rather than what actual statute
required.
--Deb
wrote:
>I've found that if you skip their color coded map and the summaries and
> >
> I personally found the information about state laws very helpful. I
> wouldn't become a member and I don't get their newsletters anymore
> because they weren't helpful to me.
> Kelly
>
use their link to the actual sections of state statutes, you can get a
fairly good handle on things (and you'll have the statute section
numbers to go look up) but there are several cases I know of where the
maps and summaries were inaccurate for years, reflecting
their "preference" of what people do rather than what actual statute
required.
--Deb
k
Their webpage can get pretty alarmist and others have the laws too. It used
to be that I didn't know of anybody else but HSLDA. Then I found something
else instead.
~Katherine
to be that I didn't know of anybody else but HSLDA. Then I found something
else instead.
~Katherine
On 8/13/08, Kelly Nishan <kel9769@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I have heard lots of advice in the past to steer clear of H$LDA.
> Their info
> > and help is a mixed bag. Others have more on that.
> >
> > Try here: http://www.nhen.org/ <http://www.nhen.org/forum/> and they
> have a
> > forum for questions.
> >
> > ~Katherine
> >
> I personally found the information about state laws very helpful. I
> wouldn't become a member and I don't get their newsletters anymore
> because they weren't helpful to me.
> Kelly
>
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 12, 2008, at 9:35 AM, castlecarver wrote:
commonsensical which is why I want to pull it out and say: It's not a
good representation of putting trust and respect into practice, even
though it looks like it on the surface. I suspect it worked for you
because of your son's unique personality that is perhaps drawn to
cataloging.
If parents want to provide unschooling (or even homeschooling) as a
gift to their kids, the parents shouldn't be placing contingencies on
it. If unschooling is the best way we know to bring kids up, then
it's up to us to figure out how to make it work, not up to the kids.
That said -- and it depends on the kid -- there isn't a problem in
giving kids information on what we need for the state but the burden
shouldn't be handed to them. It's just information.
To help unschooling flourish, it's much better to find ways to
interpret what they're doing naturally into schoolish terminology
rather than telling them they need to do something we can report to
the state. Unschooling doesn't need compromised for the state. We
just need to be clever enough to figure out how to translate life
into educationese.
work? It wasn't an agreement if the consequences were in your control
since power wasn't in balance.
For a child who likes to write and catalog things, what you had him
do might be fun. But in terms of unschooling, it's an unnecessary
barrier between the child and learning. It's not necessary for
learning. It's not necessary for the state. (Just the way you chose
to comply.) Goodness, I've tried journals and diaries since I was a
kid, but keeping track of what I'm doing, no matter what form I tried
to use (even on the computer), just doesn't interest me.
daughter playing video games is, though, using math (among other
things). It's up to me to put that into words (strategy, percentages,
mapping).
require that they comply with our wishes on how a task is accomplished.
But responsibility is something we take on voluntarily, knowing that
we can drop it whenever we choose, knowing that we can do it to
whatever standards we desire. Try to think of any responsibility you
have you can't do that with. You may be adamant that you wouldn't
choose to drop it or lower certain standards, but the choice is still
yours and you're choosing not to.
That freedom scares people. Well, what if the child decides to drop
the responsibility? Then they'll think they can drop anything. Not
true (as unschoolers can testify from experience). When kids are
growing up being respected with the philosophy of treating others
with respect, they understand the implications of responsibility. And
if they don't understand, then the responsibility was too much for
them developmentally.
For unschooling to flourish, offering them opportunities works great.
Being there to help them as much as they need us to works great.
math courses exist can be part of unschooling. To me, math was a lot
like doing puzzles. It was basically decide what kind of problem it
is and figure out which solution that goes with that type of problem
to use. And kids can get A's in that without actually understanding
math. It's comforting for parents to see kids doing a math course,
but textbook math is so far removed from actual real world math as to
be a totally different creature.
I took my good math grades from high school into college and even
managed to get a degree in electrical engineering. When I first
started unschooling it did baffle me how a child could get that kind
of intense math through unschooling. Well, they can't ;-) But what
they can get is even better. They build up a conceptual understanding
of how numbers work. I came to realize as my daughter manipulated
numbers and absorbed the meaning of "percentage" from encountering it
in various real life contexts, that all those years of textbook math
had not given me a conceptual understanding. I could do the problems
just fine. But I didn't understand what lay beneath. I couldn't look
at a real life engineering problem and know where to begin.
(Fortunately I found my forte was software engineering ;-)
Now, after years of absorbing a conceptual understanding of how math
works just by living life I do have a conceptual understanding. And
my husband comes to me when there's a math problem he needs to teach
in college that he can't figure out. I no longer look at the way the
book is saying the problem is "supposed" to be done. I just think
about it and turn it upside down and sideways. I simplify it and try
to get a true picture of what's going on.
That's real math. It's what math course developers *hope* will come
out of math courses but they can't teach that to kids. And they
definitely can't test to see if kids understand. So the teach rotely
-- basically teach only what they can test -- and hope for the best.
(And some kids do grasp a conceptual understanding of math but I
suspect it's more often despite the course than because of it.
They're already wired to think mathematically. The course may have
provided a pathway to explore it, but didn't cause them to be people
who think mathematically.)
While math courses can be fun -- I certain enjoyed them -- they don't
teach what kids really need to learn about numbers. And in fact can
give kids an illusion of being good at "math" when they're just good
at memorizing patterns and matching solutions.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The talk included the fact that I believe the best learning is selfI'm glad this worked out for you. And I think it sounds
> learning and that he is in charge of what to learn and how to learn
> it, but in order to comply with the laws he must learn something about
> each of the 5 basic subjects. I also talked to him about the state
> laws and what would be required of us should DSS come knocking on our
> door. I then put him in charge of his daily plan-book/diary, and
> attendance chart.
commonsensical which is why I want to pull it out and say: It's not a
good representation of putting trust and respect into practice, even
though it looks like it on the surface. I suspect it worked for you
because of your son's unique personality that is perhaps drawn to
cataloging.
If parents want to provide unschooling (or even homeschooling) as a
gift to their kids, the parents shouldn't be placing contingencies on
it. If unschooling is the best way we know to bring kids up, then
it's up to us to figure out how to make it work, not up to the kids.
That said -- and it depends on the kid -- there isn't a problem in
giving kids information on what we need for the state but the burden
shouldn't be handed to them. It's just information.
To help unschooling flourish, it's much better to find ways to
interpret what they're doing naturally into schoolish terminology
rather than telling them they need to do something we can report to
the state. Unschooling doesn't need compromised for the state. We
just need to be clever enough to figure out how to translate life
into educationese.
> We made this agreement. He is to keep up with the plan book and I amOr else what? He'd be sent back to school? You'd make him do school
> to approve it at the end of each day.
work? It wasn't an agreement if the consequences were in your control
since power wasn't in balance.
For a child who likes to write and catalog things, what you had him
do might be fun. But in terms of unschooling, it's an unnecessary
barrier between the child and learning. It's not necessary for
learning. It's not necessary for the state. (Just the way you chose
to comply.) Goodness, I've tried journals and diaries since I was a
kid, but keeping track of what I'm doing, no matter what form I tried
to use (even on the computer), just doesn't interest me.
> but in order to comply with the laws he must learn something aboutWith unschooling there are no subjects, despite what a state says. My
> each of the 5 basic subjects.
daughter playing video games is, though, using math (among other
things). It's up to me to put that into words (strategy, percentages,
mapping).
> The best part about it is thatWe can't give responsibility. We can dump a burden on someone. We can
> had I not given the responsibility of creating his own plan-book/diary
> I would never have done that stuff.
require that they comply with our wishes on how a task is accomplished.
But responsibility is something we take on voluntarily, knowing that
we can drop it whenever we choose, knowing that we can do it to
whatever standards we desire. Try to think of any responsibility you
have you can't do that with. You may be adamant that you wouldn't
choose to drop it or lower certain standards, but the choice is still
yours and you're choosing not to.
That freedom scares people. Well, what if the child decides to drop
the responsibility? Then they'll think they can drop anything. Not
true (as unschoolers can testify from experience). When kids are
growing up being respected with the philosophy of treating others
with respect, they understand the implications of responsibility. And
if they don't understand, then the responsibility was too much for
them developmentally.
For unschooling to flourish, offering them opportunities works great.
Being there to help them as much as they need us to works great.
> HeShowing kids who seem to enjoy such things that online (and in class)
> also decided that having an online course for math
math courses exist can be part of unschooling. To me, math was a lot
like doing puzzles. It was basically decide what kind of problem it
is and figure out which solution that goes with that type of problem
to use. And kids can get A's in that without actually understanding
math. It's comforting for parents to see kids doing a math course,
but textbook math is so far removed from actual real world math as to
be a totally different creature.
I took my good math grades from high school into college and even
managed to get a degree in electrical engineering. When I first
started unschooling it did baffle me how a child could get that kind
of intense math through unschooling. Well, they can't ;-) But what
they can get is even better. They build up a conceptual understanding
of how numbers work. I came to realize as my daughter manipulated
numbers and absorbed the meaning of "percentage" from encountering it
in various real life contexts, that all those years of textbook math
had not given me a conceptual understanding. I could do the problems
just fine. But I didn't understand what lay beneath. I couldn't look
at a real life engineering problem and know where to begin.
(Fortunately I found my forte was software engineering ;-)
Now, after years of absorbing a conceptual understanding of how math
works just by living life I do have a conceptual understanding. And
my husband comes to me when there's a math problem he needs to teach
in college that he can't figure out. I no longer look at the way the
book is saying the problem is "supposed" to be done. I just think
about it and turn it upside down and sideways. I simplify it and try
to get a true picture of what's going on.
That's real math. It's what math course developers *hope* will come
out of math courses but they can't teach that to kids. And they
definitely can't test to see if kids understand. So the teach rotely
-- basically teach only what they can test -- and hope for the best.
(And some kids do grasp a conceptual understanding of math but I
suspect it's more often despite the course than because of it.
They're already wired to think mathematically. The course may have
provided a pathway to explore it, but didn't cause them to be people
who think mathematically.)
While math courses can be fun -- I certain enjoyed them -- they don't
teach what kids really need to learn about numbers. And in fact can
give kids an illusion of being good at "math" when they're just good
at memorizing patterns and matching solutions.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Joyce
The older I get and the more I try out playing with numbers on my own, the
more I think about the underlying concepts that make them work. And of
course at school there was nowhere near the daydream time available for that
kind of activity. Math courses certainly were about doing "steps" rather
than seeing the structures that numbers can build.
I am looking at why is it that zero multiples are always equal to zero.
What's the concept behind that? I can't see it. Maybe one day I'll get a
good picture or illustration of what's happening there.
Memorizing steps, patterns and rules is not how my mind works, and that's
the biggest reason I had no interest in math at school.
Thanks for the clear explanation of what's going on with math courses in
school and how it's the testing that provides the methods of teaching math,
not the math itself. Math instructors choose to present math in order to
effectively show that it is being presented, not to present the concepts of
math effectively for others to understand them. In school, if you can do
the steps, you can pass the course.
How boring is that? No wonder I hated math. I love math now that it
belongs to me ... not those durned steppy exercises.
~Katherine
The older I get and the more I try out playing with numbers on my own, the
more I think about the underlying concepts that make them work. And of
course at school there was nowhere near the daydream time available for that
kind of activity. Math courses certainly were about doing "steps" rather
than seeing the structures that numbers can build.
I am looking at why is it that zero multiples are always equal to zero.
What's the concept behind that? I can't see it. Maybe one day I'll get a
good picture or illustration of what's happening there.
Memorizing steps, patterns and rules is not how my mind works, and that's
the biggest reason I had no interest in math at school.
Thanks for the clear explanation of what's going on with math courses in
school and how it's the testing that provides the methods of teaching math,
not the math itself. Math instructors choose to present math in order to
effectively show that it is being presented, not to present the concepts of
math effectively for others to understand them. In school, if you can do
the steps, you can pass the course.
How boring is that? No wonder I hated math. I love math now that it
belongs to me ... not those durned steppy exercises.
~Katherine
On 8/15/08, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
> > He also decided that having an online course for math
>
> Showing kids who seem to enjoy such things that online (and in class)
> math courses exist can be part of unschooling. To me, math was a lot
> like doing puzzles. It was basically decide what kind of problem it
> is and figure out which solution that goes with that type of problem
> to use. And kids can get A's in that without actually understanding
> math. It's comforting for parents to see kids doing a math course,
> but textbook math is so far removed from actual real world math as to
> be a totally different creature.
>
> I took my good math grades from high school into college and even
> managed to get a degree in electrical engineering. When I first
> started unschooling it did baffle me how a child could get that kind
> of intense math through unschooling. Well, they can't ;-) But what
> they can get is even better. They build up a conceptual understanding
> of how numbers work. I came to realize as my daughter manipulated
> numbers and absorbed the meaning of "percentage" from encountering it
> in various real life contexts, that all those years of textbook math
> had not given me a conceptual understanding. I could do the problems
> just fine. But I didn't understand what lay beneath. I couldn't look
> at a real life engineering problem and know where to begin.
> (Fortunately I found my forte was software engineering ;-)
>
> Now, after years of absorbing a conceptual understanding of how math
> works just by living life I do have a conceptual understanding. And
> my husband comes to me when there's a math problem he needs to teach
> in college that he can't figure out. I no longer look at the way the
> book is saying the problem is "supposed" to be done. I just think
> about it and turn it upside down and sideways. I simplify it and try
> to get a true picture of what's going on.
>
> That's real math. It's what math course developers *hope* will come
> out of math courses but they can't teach that to kids. And they
> definitely can't test to see if kids understand. So the teach rotely
> -- basically teach only what they can test -- and hope for the best.
> (And some kids do grasp a conceptual understanding of math but I
> suspect it's more often despite the course than because of it.
> They're already wired to think mathematically. The course may have
> provided a pathway to explore it, but didn't cause them to be people
> who think mathematically.)
>
> While math courses can be fun -- I certain enjoyed them -- they don't
> teach what kids really need to learn about numbers. And in fact can
> give kids an illusion of being good at "math" when they're just good
> at memorizing patterns and matching solutions.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 15, 2008, at 1:25 PM, k wrote:
are several answers about the zero question:
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/sets/select/dm_multiply_zero.html
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am looking at why is it that zero multiples are always equal toAsk Dr. Math is a great place for such questions. :-) In fact there
> zero.
> What's the concept behind that? I can't see it. Maybe one day
> I'll get a
> good picture or illustration of what's happening there.
are several answers about the zero question:
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/sets/select/dm_multiply_zero.html
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Ah! Well I knew there was more than one answer. ;) See. Thanks.
~Katherine
~Katherine
On 8/15/08, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2008, at 1:25 PM, k wrote:
>
> > I am looking at why is it that zero multiples are always equal to
> > zero.
> > What's the concept behind that? I can't see it. Maybe one day
> > I'll get a
> > good picture or illustration of what's happening there.
>
> Ask Dr. Math is a great place for such questions. :-) In fact there
> are several answers about the zero question:
>
> http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/sets/select/dm_multiply_zero.html
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]