Looking for insight! - LONG!
srmccann2003
I'm not sure if any of you will remember me, I wrote once about my
son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
asking me to do at home.
Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
problems for him.
I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
him is making me lose sleep.
I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
have insight on my situation?
Thank you for taking the time to read this!
Sarah
son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
asking me to do at home.
Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
problems for him.
I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
him is making me lose sleep.
I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
have insight on my situation?
Thank you for taking the time to read this!
Sarah
Judy R
Oh, I feel for you my dear - our familes and the people closest to us can cause so much more pain when we're already struggling with ourselves and our children. It is so hard to ignore them, but I think that is what you have to do - you have to do what *you* KNOW is the best thing for your child - our culture is very cruel to children, asyou have expereinced in the public system already - I mean, what is the point of that? It just makes me spitting mad sometimes why they think they have to be so *mean* to children!
Keep him home - take care of him - you don't have to do any of the "work": it's not necessary. If he likes going to the therapist, then fine, but don't insist that he do the "work" at home if he doesn't want to and if she won't accept that then stop seeing her. He will learn in his own time and in his own way if you are with him. If the gym won't let you stay or is making him ashamed of it, leave. He doen't need organized classes for anything - kids are the most natural gymnasts in the world.
Strangers who don't know our children have no right making value judgements about how we choose to raise our children. Don't let them make you feel guilty, don't give in to them, don't listen to them. You don't need them and your son certainly doesn't - keep reading about unschooling here and anything else you can get your hands on -
what's important is the authentic connection between you and your child - school doesn't do that and our culture has come to believe that it must break the bond between parents and children (especially *mothers* and sons!) - does the term "patriarchy" come to mind?
It's very hard to resist the interference of family and people close to you when they are telling you you are wrong - but hang tough my dear - you owe it to your son.
Good luck and much empathy...Judy R. in kingston ontario
Keep him home - take care of him - you don't have to do any of the "work": it's not necessary. If he likes going to the therapist, then fine, but don't insist that he do the "work" at home if he doesn't want to and if she won't accept that then stop seeing her. He will learn in his own time and in his own way if you are with him. If the gym won't let you stay or is making him ashamed of it, leave. He doen't need organized classes for anything - kids are the most natural gymnasts in the world.
Strangers who don't know our children have no right making value judgements about how we choose to raise our children. Don't let them make you feel guilty, don't give in to them, don't listen to them. You don't need them and your son certainly doesn't - keep reading about unschooling here and anything else you can get your hands on -
what's important is the authentic connection between you and your child - school doesn't do that and our culture has come to believe that it must break the bond between parents and children (especially *mothers* and sons!) - does the term "patriarchy" come to mind?
It's very hard to resist the interference of family and people close to you when they are telling you you are wrong - but hang tough my dear - you owe it to your son.
Good luck and much empathy...Judy R. in kingston ontario
----- Original Message -----
From: srmccann2003
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:04 AM
Subject: [SPAM?] [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG!
I'm not sure if any of you will remember me, I wrote once about my
son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
asking me to do at home.
Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
problems for him.
I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
him is making me lose sleep.
I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
have insight on my situation?
Thank you for taking the time to read this!
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I'm not sure if any of you will remember me, I wrote once about my
son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
asking me to do at home.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The SLP is a service. You are the client. She does not get to tell you what to do at home.
She does not get to tell you your decision to homeschool is wrong. YOU are the mother.,
YOU make the decisions.
Tell her that. If your son wants to continue the therapy that is how is going to be from now on.
If it was me I would not have my child in speech therapy since I know 3 kids/people who grew put of it completely with just time and no "work" including my father who did stutter.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
problems for him.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
It is awesome that your son co-sleeps. The mainstream wants kids to be independent too early.
Can you find another gym for him with a more understanding coach?
My niece( that has pretty mainstream but understanding parents) was still sucking her thumb at 14-15 yo ( when stressed)
and her coach knew it.
They never made a big deal out of it. She was supported.
Find another coach or be there if your son wants you to and wants to stay in this gym.
My 6 year old still sleeps with me and I remember that my brothers slept with my parents until their early teen years.
Its very commom for families to sleep together in other societies.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
him is making me lose sleep.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Hang out with us. Go to an unschooling conference ( This is the last Live and Learn Conference!)
Surround yourself with like minded parents.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
have insight on my situation?
Don';t listen to others opinions on what is right for YOUR son. Only you and him know that.
Read a lot. Read Sandra Dodd.com
Read Joyce's site.
Order Rue Kream's book.
Order THeNaturalChild.com book on usnchooling.
Read books like Naomi ALdort's Raising Our CHildren Raising Ourselves
Hang out here.
Meet other unschoolers in real life.
Go to a Conference.
Get confident in yourself.
Listen to your CHILD. Trust your CHILD
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
asking me to do at home.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The SLP is a service. You are the client. She does not get to tell you what to do at home.
She does not get to tell you your decision to homeschool is wrong. YOU are the mother.,
YOU make the decisions.
Tell her that. If your son wants to continue the therapy that is how is going to be from now on.
If it was me I would not have my child in speech therapy since I know 3 kids/people who grew put of it completely with just time and no "work" including my father who did stutter.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
problems for him.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
It is awesome that your son co-sleeps. The mainstream wants kids to be independent too early.
Can you find another gym for him with a more understanding coach?
My niece( that has pretty mainstream but understanding parents) was still sucking her thumb at 14-15 yo ( when stressed)
and her coach knew it.
They never made a big deal out of it. She was supported.
Find another coach or be there if your son wants you to and wants to stay in this gym.
My 6 year old still sleeps with me and I remember that my brothers slept with my parents until their early teen years.
Its very commom for families to sleep together in other societies.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
him is making me lose sleep.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Hang out with us. Go to an unschooling conference ( This is the last Live and Learn Conference!)
Surround yourself with like minded parents.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
have insight on my situation?
Don';t listen to others opinions on what is right for YOUR son. Only you and him know that.
Read a lot. Read Sandra Dodd.com
Read Joyce's site.
Order Rue Kream's book.
Order THeNaturalChild.com book on usnchooling.
Read books like Naomi ALdort's Raising Our CHildren Raising Ourselves
Hang out here.
Meet other unschoolers in real life.
Go to a Conference.
Get confident in yourself.
Listen to your CHILD. Trust your CHILD
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I agree Judy. Patriarchy is a reason but not a good excuse for what we do
to boys in this culture. It's a systematic attempt to de-emotionalize
boys. Girls are encouraged to emote all they want to. Boys are put down
and shamed for shows of emotion. If I were to allow that to happen to my
son, and it has happened because of the way the culture is, then the natural
outcome is for boys to conclude that the only acceptable emotion is ANGER.
Day to day life is supposed to be the other alternative --- stuff your
emotions...... which just starts a huge backlog that eventually comes out as
really big anger. Hello? Awful cycle. Boys are human beings and don't
need to live up to the "strong silent" stereotype. They need a full range
of expression, not to be bottled and seen as "bad" for having feelings,
which are unavoidable.
The bond of mother and son is a fine one and not to be messed with in my
opinion. I really don't give a hoot what anyone else thinks about the
mother/son bond between me and Karl. If the bond between child and parent
is broken too early, the child has a much harder dealing with people and
understand what they're like. They need to know.
~Katherine
to boys in this culture. It's a systematic attempt to de-emotionalize
boys. Girls are encouraged to emote all they want to. Boys are put down
and shamed for shows of emotion. If I were to allow that to happen to my
son, and it has happened because of the way the culture is, then the natural
outcome is for boys to conclude that the only acceptable emotion is ANGER.
Day to day life is supposed to be the other alternative --- stuff your
emotions...... which just starts a huge backlog that eventually comes out as
really big anger. Hello? Awful cycle. Boys are human beings and don't
need to live up to the "strong silent" stereotype. They need a full range
of expression, not to be bottled and seen as "bad" for having feelings,
which are unavoidable.
The bond of mother and son is a fine one and not to be messed with in my
opinion. I really don't give a hoot what anyone else thinks about the
mother/son bond between me and Karl. If the bond between child and parent
is broken too early, the child has a much harder dealing with people and
understand what they're like. They need to know.
~Katherine
On 8/3/08, Judy R <jroberts@...> wrote:
>
> Oh, I feel for you my dear - our familes and the people closest to us
> can cause so much more pain when we're already struggling with ourselves and
> our children. It is so hard to ignore them, but I think that is what you
> have to do - you have to do what *you* KNOW is the best thing for your child
> - our culture is very cruel to children, asyou have expereinced in the
> public system already - I mean, what is the point of that? It just makes me
> spitting mad sometimes why they think they have to be so *mean* to children!
>
> Keep him home - take care of him - you don't have to do any of the "work":
> it's not necessary. If he likes going to the therapist, then fine, but don't
> insist that he do the "work" at home if he doesn't want to and if she won't
> accept that then stop seeing her. He will learn in his own time and in his
> own way if you are with him. If the gym won't let you stay or is making him
> ashamed of it, leave. He doen't need organized classes for anything - kids
> are the most natural gymnasts in the world.
>
> Strangers who don't know our children have no right making value judgements
> about how we choose to raise our children. Don't let them make you feel
> guilty, don't give in to them, don't listen to them. You don't need them and
> your son certainly doesn't - keep reading about unschooling here and
> anything else you can get your hands on -
>
> what's important is the authentic connection between you and your child -
> school doesn't do that and our culture has come to believe that it must
> break the bond between parents and children (especially *mothers* and sons!)
> - does the term "patriarchy" come to mind?
>
> It's very hard to resist the interference of family and people close to you
> when they are telling you you are wrong - but hang tough my dear - you owe
> it to your son.
>
> Good luck and much empathy...Judy R. in kingston ontario
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: srmccann2003
> To: [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:04 AM
> Subject: [SPAM?] [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG!
>
> I'm not sure if any of you will remember me, I wrote once about my
> son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
> several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
> principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
> so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
> repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
> this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
> unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
> trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
> therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
> willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
> him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
> home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
> learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
> to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
> both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
> to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
> him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
> him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
> do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
> school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
> Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
> is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
> disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
> is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
> across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
> especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
> asking me to do at home.
>
> Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
> turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
> it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
> entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
> day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
> found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
> told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
> upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
> upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
> Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
> told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
> only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
> woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
> minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
> and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
> ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
> he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
> am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
> but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
> problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
> will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
> about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
> went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
> a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
> Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
> problems for him.
>
> I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
> enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
> actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
> him is making me lose sleep.
>
> I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
> have insight on my situation?
>
> Thank you for taking the time to read this!
> Sarah
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A Perry
Dear Sarah,
My son is 6 years old. He is larger than any other boy his age that I have met- all over larger, not just heavy. This makes many people believe that he is older than he is, and they expect him to act in a more "mature" way than he does. Your story struck a chord with me because I have also had other adults treat my son with disrespect and scorn because of his "clinginess" and "separation anxiety". My own husband agrees with them, and sometimes refers to my son, behind his back, as "The Barnacle". I hate this, and it causes some tension in the house, but I am not going to allow anyone to question my instincts about what I know is truly best for my boy, not even my husband.
He spent part of last year in kindergarten because I thought it would be fun. I really thought kindergarten would be more about playing and meeting other children than about obeying and listening and keeping quiet and sitting still. What a shock I received when I started volunteering at the school because my son was clearly NOT having fun and would cry when we started getting ready for school each morning. About 8 weeks into the school year I pulled him out, and he has been home with me every day since. We still sleep together in the family bed. I go with him everywhere that he wants to go- science camp, soccer, art class, etc. I check to make sure that my presence is acceptable before signing up for activities. I even sit next to him on the floor during the local library story hour. This is all because he *wants* me there. He *wants* to be with me, close to me, as much as possible.
Don't doubt your instincts to take care of your son and to stay close to him. I think that when you do what is right, it feels right, and when you do what is "wrong", you can change and try something else until you find the "right" thing.
As for the teacher, I would ask her to consider working with you in a different way. There must be some other way for your son to get help from her. Have you really brainstormed about other ways? I would seriously think long and hard about what the goal is and how to get there without the pain and struggle you and he are experiencing. And then go to her with your ideas. If he is not participating, he has a good reason. You could talk with him about what's not working, and find out what his thoughts and ideas are. When I talk with my son and he tells me his thoughts and ideas, he has solved some pretty serious problems.
One last thing- don't worry about "being an unschooler". Just be you, and your son's mom. Your goals will change, and so will his. Your interests, your energy level, your motivation, and his- it's all between you and him. If you are doing what you and he want, when you and he want, then you are "unschoolers". What happens between the two of you is what will define your unschooling days and your unschooling life. You guys are in charge! Enjoy it.
Angela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son is 6 years old. He is larger than any other boy his age that I have met- all over larger, not just heavy. This makes many people believe that he is older than he is, and they expect him to act in a more "mature" way than he does. Your story struck a chord with me because I have also had other adults treat my son with disrespect and scorn because of his "clinginess" and "separation anxiety". My own husband agrees with them, and sometimes refers to my son, behind his back, as "The Barnacle". I hate this, and it causes some tension in the house, but I am not going to allow anyone to question my instincts about what I know is truly best for my boy, not even my husband.
He spent part of last year in kindergarten because I thought it would be fun. I really thought kindergarten would be more about playing and meeting other children than about obeying and listening and keeping quiet and sitting still. What a shock I received when I started volunteering at the school because my son was clearly NOT having fun and would cry when we started getting ready for school each morning. About 8 weeks into the school year I pulled him out, and he has been home with me every day since. We still sleep together in the family bed. I go with him everywhere that he wants to go- science camp, soccer, art class, etc. I check to make sure that my presence is acceptable before signing up for activities. I even sit next to him on the floor during the local library story hour. This is all because he *wants* me there. He *wants* to be with me, close to me, as much as possible.
Don't doubt your instincts to take care of your son and to stay close to him. I think that when you do what is right, it feels right, and when you do what is "wrong", you can change and try something else until you find the "right" thing.
As for the teacher, I would ask her to consider working with you in a different way. There must be some other way for your son to get help from her. Have you really brainstormed about other ways? I would seriously think long and hard about what the goal is and how to get there without the pain and struggle you and he are experiencing. And then go to her with your ideas. If he is not participating, he has a good reason. You could talk with him about what's not working, and find out what his thoughts and ideas are. When I talk with my son and he tells me his thoughts and ideas, he has solved some pretty serious problems.
One last thing- don't worry about "being an unschooler". Just be you, and your son's mom. Your goals will change, and so will his. Your interests, your energy level, your motivation, and his- it's all between you and him. If you are doing what you and he want, when you and he want, then you are "unschoolers". What happens between the two of you is what will define your unschooling days and your unschooling life. You guys are in charge! Enjoy it.
Angela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy Curry
I still hear my mother in law's words in my head. The day I came home from the hospital with my daughter, it was, IMHO, the wisest piece of advice any one ever gave me. "Follow your gut, only you truly know that child."
I found it is wiser to "pick your battles" with your children. The point of home schooling is that you decide what your children are learning and what their assignments are. Thank the counselor for her advice but that you know what works best for your son at home. Maybe look into something that will work for you and your son and let the counselor know about it and ask her to help you gauge his progress from there. I stuttered when I was growing up and did quite well without therapy, I work in a call center.
As for co-sleeping, we have done that with both of our children. My daughter chose to go into her own bed in her own time. My son still sleeps with us some nights. Honestly, I didn't know there was a name for it when we started co-sleeping. It started from total exhaustion, I simply brought my daughter to bed with us so she could nurse at her leisure and I could still get some sleep. It worked so well we did with our son as well. I swear that is why they made large beds.
Separation anxiety. That is a lovely term that I have had explained to me as "mom it's time to let go of the little one". Not true. I lost a part of my daughter when she went to public school and came under the influence of children whose parents do not have the same values we do. The school systems we have been in do not have the same values as we do. No it's not time to let go until they are ready to go out in the world on their own. And how will they do that successfully? From learning from us, their parents. Our mistakes, our triumphs influence them. Making them grow up at such young ages doesn't prepare them for the world it causes them more problems in the long run, they miss out on the fun of being a child. Playing, having fun, no large cares to consider.
Tammy C.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I found it is wiser to "pick your battles" with your children. The point of home schooling is that you decide what your children are learning and what their assignments are. Thank the counselor for her advice but that you know what works best for your son at home. Maybe look into something that will work for you and your son and let the counselor know about it and ask her to help you gauge his progress from there. I stuttered when I was growing up and did quite well without therapy, I work in a call center.
As for co-sleeping, we have done that with both of our children. My daughter chose to go into her own bed in her own time. My son still sleeps with us some nights. Honestly, I didn't know there was a name for it when we started co-sleeping. It started from total exhaustion, I simply brought my daughter to bed with us so she could nurse at her leisure and I could still get some sleep. It worked so well we did with our son as well. I swear that is why they made large beds.
Separation anxiety. That is a lovely term that I have had explained to me as "mom it's time to let go of the little one". Not true. I lost a part of my daughter when she went to public school and came under the influence of children whose parents do not have the same values we do. The school systems we have been in do not have the same values as we do. No it's not time to let go until they are ready to go out in the world on their own. And how will they do that successfully? From learning from us, their parents. Our mistakes, our triumphs influence them. Making them grow up at such young ages doesn't prepare them for the world it causes them more problems in the long run, they miss out on the fun of being a child. Playing, having fun, no large cares to consider.
Tammy C.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon
Sarah,
I remember you - your son and mine are about the same age (about six months
apart). We have also had similar experiences. PS wanted me to put my son in
speech therapy because he is tongue tied. It isn't why I took him out and I
had also never planned to send him to PS but I thought at this magical age
I'd start handing him worksheets and he would happily do them. (I hated
worksheets - groaned internally at even looking for them but thought he
would like them. lol.) I didn't know about unschooling then and so didn't
know that is what I had been doing. I was lucky enough to find a supportive
group about the same time we took him out of public school. I have had my
doubts but he has learned so much and with me basically just making what he
wants available. Anyway, yes, my son has had problems saying some sounds -
he still finds it easier to say thinger instead of finger but just from
guidance and clarifying new words as well as making a game of making faces
with emphasis on sticking out your tongue. He is easy to understand and
confident if sometimes quiet. He can also lick his lips with no surgery. The
best thing about homeschooling is being able to help your child as you see
fit. the hard part is having to constantly research how to do it. (I know
once they get older I will have to do it less and I will miss it.) If
pulling him from the therapy is not a comfortable option at this time,
discuss other ways to help him as home. There is always some goal or
objective. Explain to the therapist that you are not comfortable enforcing
homework but you will help him find ways to practice more if you know what
the objective is. She is the facilitator to fulfill a need but your son
needs to be ready for it - if he isn't he won't be receptive to it.
Never apologize for length. when you want detailed help - you need to give
the details. Perhaps your son does have separation issues but if he did
would you force him away? My husband often sleeps in a separate room from me
cause I have one kid and he has another since we have three sometimes one of
us has more then one. Sometimes only daddy will do and he gets all three -
since he goes to work and they don't get the time with him that they do with
me - I think it a way for them to balance it. There are times my son is
ready to be away from me and other times he isn't. He loves visiting but he
wants to come home to sleep. Sometimes even when visiting family far away
with mom and/or dad he wants to go home. Anyway, if he needs you with him
and you can be. be there. My son used to be afraid I would leave him and
would often melt down if he couldn't find me. I just constantly remind him
where to meet if I get lost and that I will never leave without him. He also
knows some simple signs like "ready to go", help, bathroom, ok, stop and I
love you so that communication that most people miss can be done across the
room.
I "teach" Quentin very little but he "learns" so much. Every time I start to
worry, he regales some stranger about something I thought he wasn't even
paying attention to. I love learning and so I watch stuff on my interests or
in research his interests which I play in the living room. If you are
worried about what he is learning, just write a journal of what he does even
playing video games and watching tv. If you can't figure out what he is
learning; email the list and I bet a few of us can tell you and tell you how
to build on it if it seems he is interested. I do educational reviews for
unschoolers. I love making every day learning into schoolese for the public
school system and the "worried" friends and family.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of srmccann2003
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG!
I'm not sure if any of you will remember me, I wrote once about my
son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
asking me to do at home.
Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
problems for him.
I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
him is making me lose sleep.
I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
have insight on my situation?
Thank you for taking the time to read this!
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I remember you - your son and mine are about the same age (about six months
apart). We have also had similar experiences. PS wanted me to put my son in
speech therapy because he is tongue tied. It isn't why I took him out and I
had also never planned to send him to PS but I thought at this magical age
I'd start handing him worksheets and he would happily do them. (I hated
worksheets - groaned internally at even looking for them but thought he
would like them. lol.) I didn't know about unschooling then and so didn't
know that is what I had been doing. I was lucky enough to find a supportive
group about the same time we took him out of public school. I have had my
doubts but he has learned so much and with me basically just making what he
wants available. Anyway, yes, my son has had problems saying some sounds -
he still finds it easier to say thinger instead of finger but just from
guidance and clarifying new words as well as making a game of making faces
with emphasis on sticking out your tongue. He is easy to understand and
confident if sometimes quiet. He can also lick his lips with no surgery. The
best thing about homeschooling is being able to help your child as you see
fit. the hard part is having to constantly research how to do it. (I know
once they get older I will have to do it less and I will miss it.) If
pulling him from the therapy is not a comfortable option at this time,
discuss other ways to help him as home. There is always some goal or
objective. Explain to the therapist that you are not comfortable enforcing
homework but you will help him find ways to practice more if you know what
the objective is. She is the facilitator to fulfill a need but your son
needs to be ready for it - if he isn't he won't be receptive to it.
Never apologize for length. when you want detailed help - you need to give
the details. Perhaps your son does have separation issues but if he did
would you force him away? My husband often sleeps in a separate room from me
cause I have one kid and he has another since we have three sometimes one of
us has more then one. Sometimes only daddy will do and he gets all three -
since he goes to work and they don't get the time with him that they do with
me - I think it a way for them to balance it. There are times my son is
ready to be away from me and other times he isn't. He loves visiting but he
wants to come home to sleep. Sometimes even when visiting family far away
with mom and/or dad he wants to go home. Anyway, if he needs you with him
and you can be. be there. My son used to be afraid I would leave him and
would often melt down if he couldn't find me. I just constantly remind him
where to meet if I get lost and that I will never leave without him. He also
knows some simple signs like "ready to go", help, bathroom, ok, stop and I
love you so that communication that most people miss can be done across the
room.
I "teach" Quentin very little but he "learns" so much. Every time I start to
worry, he regales some stranger about something I thought he wasn't even
paying attention to. I love learning and so I watch stuff on my interests or
in research his interests which I play in the living room. If you are
worried about what he is learning, just write a journal of what he does even
playing video games and watching tv. If you can't figure out what he is
learning; email the list and I bet a few of us can tell you and tell you how
to build on it if it seems he is interested. I do educational reviews for
unschoolers. I love making every day learning into schoolese for the public
school system and the "worried" friends and family.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of srmccann2003
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG!
I'm not sure if any of you will remember me, I wrote once about my
son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
asking me to do at home.
Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
problems for him.
I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
him is making me lose sleep.
I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
have insight on my situation?
Thank you for taking the time to read this!
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeanette Crichton
Just wanted to chime in on the speech thing. My dh's family is/was very concerned about my son's speech (he's 5) and I'm just NOT. He has been practicing his L sound by holding up his fingers in the shape of an L and saying LOSER. I told him to reserve that word for daddy : ) and he can call me LOVELY : ) Anyhow, he has had SOOOO much fun doing this. It is the second sound he has mastered in just a couple of months. The first one was TH when our dog Thor died. BTW he is also tongue tied. I have given him the option of us helping him with his speech, or going to see a speech therapist, but in his usual fashion, he knows he'll just figure it out on his own. He is sometimes bothered when others can't understand him (happens very rarely) because he has soooo much to say and loves to hold conversations.
Jeanette
----- Original Message ----
From: Shannon <dragteine76@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 11:34:50 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG! (just got longer)
Sarah,
I remember you - your son and mine are about the same age (about six months
apart). We have also had similar experiences. PS wanted me to put my son in
speech therapy because he is tongue tied. It isn't why I took him out and I
had also never planned to send him to PS but I thought at this magical age
I'd start handing him worksheets and he would happily do them. (I hated
worksheets - groaned internally at even looking for them but thought he
would like them. lol.) I didn't know about unschooling then and so didn't
know that is what I had been doing. I was lucky enough to find a supportive
group about the same time we took him out of public school. I have had my
doubts but he has learned so much and with me basically just making what he
wants available. Anyway, yes, my son has had problems saying some sounds -
he still finds it easier to say thinger instead of finger but just from
guidance and clarifying new words as well as making a game of making faces
with emphasis on sticking out your tongue. He is easy to understand and
confident if sometimes quiet. He can also lick his lips with no surgery. The
best thing about homeschooling is being able to help your child as you see
fit. the hard part is having to constantly research how to do it. (I know
once they get older I will have to do it less and I will miss it.) If
pulling him from the therapy is not a comfortable option at this time,
discuss other ways to help him as home. There is always some goal or
objective. Explain to the therapist that you are not comfortable enforcing
homework but you will help him find ways to practice more if you know what
the objective is. She is the facilitator to fulfill a need but your son
needs to be ready for it - if he isn't he won't be receptive to it.
Never apologize for length. when you want detailed help - you need to give
the details. Perhaps your son does have separation issues but if he did
would you force him away? My husband often sleeps in a separate room from me
cause I have one kid and he has another since we have three sometimes one of
us has more then one. Sometimes only daddy will do and he gets all three -
since he goes to work and they don't get the time with him that they do with
me - I think it a way for them to balance it. There are times my son is
ready to be away from me and other times he isn't. He loves visiting but he
wants to come home to sleep. Sometimes even when visiting family far away
with mom and/or dad he wants to go home. Anyway, if he needs you with him
and you can be. be there. My son used to be afraid I would leave him and
would often melt down if he couldn't find me. I just constantly remind him
where to meet if I get lost and that I will never leave without him. He also
knows some simple signs like "ready to go", help, bathroom, ok, stop and I
love you so that communication that most people miss can be done across the
room.
I "teach" Quentin very little but he "learns" so much. Every time I start to
worry, he regales some stranger about something I thought he wasn't even
paying attention to. I love learning and so I watch stuff on my interests or
in research his interests which I play in the living room. If you are
worried about what he is learning, just write a journal of what he does even
playing video games and watching tv. If you can't figure out what he is
learning; email the list and I bet a few of us can tell you and tell you how
to build on it if it seems he is interested. I do educational reviews for
unschoolers. I love making every day learning into schoolese for the public
school system and the "worried" friends and family.
Shannon
_____
From: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of srmccann2003
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:04 AM
To: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG!
I'm not sure if any of you will remember me, I wrote once about my
son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
asking me to do at home.
Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
problems for him.
I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
him is making me lose sleep.
I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
have insight on my situation?
Thank you for taking the time to read this!
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeanette
----- Original Message ----
From: Shannon <dragteine76@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2008 11:34:50 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG! (just got longer)
Sarah,
I remember you - your son and mine are about the same age (about six months
apart). We have also had similar experiences. PS wanted me to put my son in
speech therapy because he is tongue tied. It isn't why I took him out and I
had also never planned to send him to PS but I thought at this magical age
I'd start handing him worksheets and he would happily do them. (I hated
worksheets - groaned internally at even looking for them but thought he
would like them. lol.) I didn't know about unschooling then and so didn't
know that is what I had been doing. I was lucky enough to find a supportive
group about the same time we took him out of public school. I have had my
doubts but he has learned so much and with me basically just making what he
wants available. Anyway, yes, my son has had problems saying some sounds -
he still finds it easier to say thinger instead of finger but just from
guidance and clarifying new words as well as making a game of making faces
with emphasis on sticking out your tongue. He is easy to understand and
confident if sometimes quiet. He can also lick his lips with no surgery. The
best thing about homeschooling is being able to help your child as you see
fit. the hard part is having to constantly research how to do it. (I know
once they get older I will have to do it less and I will miss it.) If
pulling him from the therapy is not a comfortable option at this time,
discuss other ways to help him as home. There is always some goal or
objective. Explain to the therapist that you are not comfortable enforcing
homework but you will help him find ways to practice more if you know what
the objective is. She is the facilitator to fulfill a need but your son
needs to be ready for it - if he isn't he won't be receptive to it.
Never apologize for length. when you want detailed help - you need to give
the details. Perhaps your son does have separation issues but if he did
would you force him away? My husband often sleeps in a separate room from me
cause I have one kid and he has another since we have three sometimes one of
us has more then one. Sometimes only daddy will do and he gets all three -
since he goes to work and they don't get the time with him that they do with
me - I think it a way for them to balance it. There are times my son is
ready to be away from me and other times he isn't. He loves visiting but he
wants to come home to sleep. Sometimes even when visiting family far away
with mom and/or dad he wants to go home. Anyway, if he needs you with him
and you can be. be there. My son used to be afraid I would leave him and
would often melt down if he couldn't find me. I just constantly remind him
where to meet if I get lost and that I will never leave without him. He also
knows some simple signs like "ready to go", help, bathroom, ok, stop and I
love you so that communication that most people miss can be done across the
room.
I "teach" Quentin very little but he "learns" so much. Every time I start to
worry, he regales some stranger about something I thought he wasn't even
paying attention to. I love learning and so I watch stuff on my interests or
in research his interests which I play in the living room. If you are
worried about what he is learning, just write a journal of what he does even
playing video games and watching tv. If you can't figure out what he is
learning; email the list and I bet a few of us can tell you and tell you how
to build on it if it seems he is interested. I do educational reviews for
unschoolers. I love making every day learning into schoolese for the public
school system and the "worried" friends and family.
Shannon
_____
From: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of srmccann2003
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:04 AM
To: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG!
I'm not sure if any of you will remember me, I wrote once about my
son previously. He attended K in a public school only to have
several incidents with adults that frightened him (teachers yelling,
principal refusing to let me take him out of school when he was sick
so she restrained him and ordered me out of the school etc) and
repeated incidents with a child bullying him. So since late Sept of
this year we pulled him from PS and I've been trying to learn about
unschooling. I'll admit that not all of it comes easy to me, but I'm
trying. Which leads me to my first problem. He attends speech
therapy with a private SLP for verbal apraxia. He likes her and goes
willingly. Problem is that she is asking me to do "homework" with
him and what he might do willingly for her, he does NOT want to do at
home with me. She has him writing short stories trying to help him
learn to be more comfortable with whole language. He does not want
to write ANY thing at home. It becomes a real battle which makes
both of us miserable. I've told the SLP this and that I don't want
to force him to do it. She says that I should never have to force
him so it's the way I'm presenting it. She told me instead of asking
him to do the work that I should set a timer, then it's his choice to
do the work or not. She said that she thinks he should go back to
school because he doesn't have any problems doing the work for her.
Of course that hooks into my fears that I'm doing it "wrong". This
is a child that tests out at having a moderate to severe language
disability and graphomotor disabilites but who is very bright. Thing
is he becomes VERY frustrated and angry when he can't get his point
across. That is what drives me to take him to this private SLP
especially since he likes her BUT I'm uncomfortable with what she is
asking me to do at home.
Second problem, and I apologize for the length of this! My son
turned 7 at the end of April. He is on a gymnastics team and loves
it. Problem: all team members have to attend gymnastics camp which
entails 2 weeks of 3 days a week from 9:00 - 4:00. He attended one
day willingly and when I went in at 3:00 to watch and pick him up I
found him pale and near tears. I asked him if he was okay and he
told me, "Some of it's fun but there's a stupid game and the lady
upstairs was mad at me." There's another exercise business
upstairs and the woman is retired military and very aggressive.
Turns out he was dropping a bean bag down over the balcony and she
told him to, "Get out of here" and gave the thumb jerk. We discussed
only going upstairs to use the bathroom and to eat and not giving the
woman any chance to be grumpy but come the next camp day he stayed 10
minutes and started crying that his stomach hurt. I took him home
and we spent the next week just hanging out and we bought a 4 square
ball to practice the "stupid game" ;) Now he is willing to go but
he's asked that I stay the entire time. I've done that two days and
am very willing to do it (he has 3 more days required to attend)
but "other" people have expressed concern that he has SEPERATION
problems. I'm worried about the way the coaches and the other kids
will treat him. Already one coach told him gruffly not to worry
about his mom. I had gone to the bathroom, thinking he saw where I
went but he hadn't and he thought I left and started crying. This is
a child that still co-sleeps so I'm hearing pressure even from his
Dad about his not being able to separate and how I'm creating
problems for him.
I think it's bad enough that I question myself that I'm not creative
enough to do unschooling but to have people suggesting that I'm
actually hurting him by not teaching him enough or that I'm coddling
him is making me lose sleep.
I respect a lot of what I've read here over the months, does anyone
have insight on my situation?
Thank you for taking the time to read this!
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
srmccann2003
THANK YOU! All of you who wrote. It's so nice to hear that there
are other people out there who are not critical of my decisions. I'm
really touched by your kindness that you would take the time to read
and respond.
Thank you for those who shared their situations with me. Apraxia is
very confusing and frustrating. My son has worked very, very hard to
be able to speak clearly because it was more than important to him,
even at a very young age, that people understand him. I remember him
sobbing because I could not understand what he was saying even at the
age of 3. Now his articulation is very good but he struggles to be
able to explain what happened or what he saw etc. He wants very much
to be part of conversations. Apraxia affects the ability to motor
plan but it does not affect intelligence. Someone told me once that
you could liken it to someone with a stroke. They KNOW what they
want to say but the messages get mixed up on the way to the mouth.
Right now I find the hardest part to be that some people believe that
since he CAN articulate words correctly or near correctly that he
should be able to answer their questions or test verbally. They do
not understand that it's more complicated, that saying a word in
isolation is one thing but putting it in a sentence is a whole
different ball of wax. Does he really need the SLP? I'm on the
fence so I think as long as he wants to go see her I'll keep taking
him. I do think a talk with her is in order though as several of you
suggested.
As for the gymnastics - I spoke to the owner/head coach and he has NO
problem with my being there. He apologized that the woman upstairs
had frightened my son and said he would speak to her. I was also
able to speak to one other coach and she was very understanding. She
said that what ever I needed to do was fine with her and she
commended me for taking the time to be there for him. As for the two
other coaches that think he should "Get over it", oh
well!
Lastly, Brian thank you very much for your list of
suggestions/reading. I've got book order to go do! :)
Thank you again!
Sarah
are other people out there who are not critical of my decisions. I'm
really touched by your kindness that you would take the time to read
and respond.
Thank you for those who shared their situations with me. Apraxia is
very confusing and frustrating. My son has worked very, very hard to
be able to speak clearly because it was more than important to him,
even at a very young age, that people understand him. I remember him
sobbing because I could not understand what he was saying even at the
age of 3. Now his articulation is very good but he struggles to be
able to explain what happened or what he saw etc. He wants very much
to be part of conversations. Apraxia affects the ability to motor
plan but it does not affect intelligence. Someone told me once that
you could liken it to someone with a stroke. They KNOW what they
want to say but the messages get mixed up on the way to the mouth.
Right now I find the hardest part to be that some people believe that
since he CAN articulate words correctly or near correctly that he
should be able to answer their questions or test verbally. They do
not understand that it's more complicated, that saying a word in
isolation is one thing but putting it in a sentence is a whole
different ball of wax. Does he really need the SLP? I'm on the
fence so I think as long as he wants to go see her I'll keep taking
him. I do think a talk with her is in order though as several of you
suggested.
As for the gymnastics - I spoke to the owner/head coach and he has NO
problem with my being there. He apologized that the woman upstairs
had frightened my son and said he would speak to her. I was also
able to speak to one other coach and she was very understanding. She
said that what ever I needed to do was fine with her and she
commended me for taking the time to be there for him. As for the two
other coaches that think he should "Get over it", oh
well!
Lastly, Brian thank you very much for your list of
suggestions/reading. I've got book order to go do! :)
Thank you again!
Sarah
Three Mommies
Just a quick note: I am 41 and tongue-tied. Thankfully, when the dentist
suggested to my mom that she have the tie cut she said "No thank you." I
taught myself to compensate for the tie and now speak perfectly clear
English. I can make all the sounds the language requires. So, I wouldn't
worry to much if your isn't quite speaking "The Queen's English." He'll get
it eventually. :)
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
suggested to my mom that she have the tie cut she said "No thank you." I
taught myself to compensate for the tie and now speak perfectly clear
English. I can make all the sounds the language requires. So, I wouldn't
worry to much if your isn't quite speaking "The Queen's English." He'll get
it eventually. :)
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~I remember him
sobbing because I could not understand what he was saying even at the
age of 3.~~
My youngest didn't even start verbalizing until around the age of
three! I think therapy is highly overrated and most issues work
themselves out.
Jalen talks like any other seven year old now, you wouldn't know he
mostly did hand motions and hiss when he was a toddler.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
sobbing because I could not understand what he was saying even at the
age of 3.~~
My youngest didn't even start verbalizing until around the age of
three! I think therapy is highly overrated and most issues work
themselves out.
Jalen talks like any other seven year old now, you wouldn't know he
mostly did hand motions and hiss when he was a toddler.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[email protected]
Gail's our "resident speech therapist." She deletes a lot (and we were
at the river tubing last weekend and her daughter is leaving for
college in two weeks, so she's had less time to read), so she may not
have looked into this thread.
If she reads the title change, she may go back and read and comment
later....or not. <g>
I'll post in a bit about subject lines and how they can make a
difference. But "looking for insight" doesn't necessarily help those
with little time to read to decide which posts may be helpful OR which
may need help. I'll go do that now.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
~~I remember him
sobbing because I could not understand what he was saying even at the
age of 3.~~
My youngest didn't even start verbalizing until around the age of
three! I think therapy is highly overrated and most issues work
themselves out.
Jalen talks like any other seven year old now, you wouldn't know he
mostly did hand motions and hiss when he was a toddler.
at the river tubing last weekend and her daughter is leaving for
college in two weeks, so she's had less time to read), so she may not
have looked into this thread.
If she reads the title change, she may go back and read and comment
later....or not. <g>
I'll post in a bit about subject lines and how they can make a
difference. But "looking for insight" doesn't necessarily help those
with little time to read to decide which posts may be helpful OR which
may need help. I'll go do that now.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
~~I remember him
sobbing because I could not understand what he was saying even at the
age of 3.~~
My youngest didn't even start verbalizing until around the age of
three! I think therapy is highly overrated and most issues work
themselves out.
Jalen talks like any other seven year old now, you wouldn't know he
mostly did hand motions and hiss when he was a toddler.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/2008 8:14:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
Gail's our "resident speech therapist." She deletes a lot (and we were
at the river tubing last weekend and her daughter is leaving for
college in two weeks, so she's had less time to read), so she may not
have looked into this thread.
If she reads the title change, she may go back and read and comment
later....or not. <g>
____
I did delete all those when I came back from the river trip and had 300
e-mails...<g> I'm not feeling very insightful bit I would have looked at a
Speech Therapy thread. I have lots to say about the subject and it usually
doesn't involve recommended speech therapy for young children. I'm slammed today
but I'll check it out when I get the chance.
It definitely does help if the subject line is very specific.
Gail
_http://gail-hummingbirdhaven.blogspot.com/_
(http://gail-hummingbirdhaven.blogspot.com/)
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
Gail's our "resident speech therapist." She deletes a lot (and we were
at the river tubing last weekend and her daughter is leaving for
college in two weeks, so she's had less time to read), so she may not
have looked into this thread.
If she reads the title change, she may go back and read and comment
later....or not. <g>
____
I did delete all those when I came back from the river trip and had 300
e-mails...<g> I'm not feeling very insightful bit I would have looked at a
Speech Therapy thread. I have lots to say about the subject and it usually
doesn't involve recommended speech therapy for young children. I'm slammed today
but I'll check it out when I get the chance.
It definitely does help if the subject line is very specific.
Gail
_http://gail-hummingbirdhaven.blogspot.com/_
(http://gail-hummingbirdhaven.blogspot.com/)
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon
Strangely it has never been suggested to me that I have his tie cut though
it was done to my nephew on my DH side. He had some eating problems though
and was deemed medically necessary. I have heard that the only limit will be
his kissing ability (frenching) and making the correct r sounds in Spanish.
Any comments?
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Three Mommies
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG! (just got
longer)
Just a quick note: I am 41 and tongue-tied. Thankfully, when the dentist
suggested to my mom that she have the tie cut she said "No thank you." I
taught myself to compensate for the tie and now speak perfectly clear
English. I can make all the sounds the language requires. So, I wouldn't
worry to much if your isn't quite speaking "The Queen's English." He'll get
it eventually. :)
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies. <http://3mommies.blogspot.com> blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it was done to my nephew on my DH side. He had some eating problems though
and was deemed medically necessary. I have heard that the only limit will be
his kissing ability (frenching) and making the correct r sounds in Spanish.
Any comments?
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Three Mommies
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for insight! - LONG! (just got
longer)
Just a quick note: I am 41 and tongue-tied. Thankfully, when the dentist
suggested to my mom that she have the tie cut she said "No thank you." I
taught myself to compensate for the tie and now speak perfectly clear
English. I can make all the sounds the language requires. So, I wouldn't
worry to much if your isn't quite speaking "The Queen's English." He'll get
it eventually. :)
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies. <http://3mommies.blogspot.com> blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon
I have always suggested sign language for all parents. Even though my
children have never had speech problems other then being babies. I start
with one sign at a time and once they get it move to the next. Even if you
don't know sign language make-up your own signs; feelings and needs are best
to start with. I wish someone told me that when I was teaching my first.
Shannon Bonafede
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Looking for insight! - Long! Thank you!
~~I remember him
sobbing because I could not understand what he was saying even at the
age of 3.~~
My youngest didn't even start verbalizing until around the age of
three! I think therapy is highly overrated and most issues work
themselves out.
Jalen talks like any other seven year old now, you wouldn't know he
mostly did hand motions and hiss when he was a toddler.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
children have never had speech problems other then being babies. I start
with one sign at a time and once they get it move to the next. Even if you
don't know sign language make-up your own signs; feelings and needs are best
to start with. I wish someone told me that when I was teaching my first.
Shannon Bonafede
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Looking for insight! - Long! Thank you!
~~I remember him
sobbing because I could not understand what he was saying even at the
age of 3.~~
My youngest didn't even start verbalizing until around the age of
three! I think therapy is highly overrated and most issues work
themselves out.
Jalen talks like any other seven year old now, you wouldn't know he
mostly did hand motions and hiss when he was a toddler.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rue Kream
>>I have heard that the only limit will be his kissing ability(frenching) and making the correct r sounds in Spanish. Any comments?
**I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
ice cream cones.
It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
any problems at all. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon
You know that may explain why my son prefers his ice cream in a cup even
with the cone.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rue Kream
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
**I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
ice cream cones.
It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
any problems at all. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with the cone.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rue Kream
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
>>I have heard that the only limit will be his kissing ability(frenching) and making the correct r sounds in Spanish. Any comments?
**I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
ice cream cones.
It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
any problems at all. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Three Mommies
>Hey Shannon :)
> I have heard that the only limit will be his kissing ability (frenching)
> and making the correct r sounds in Spanish. Any comments?
I can't roll my R's very well, but no one has said they can't understand me
in Spanish. As for French kissing, it's not my strong suit. As a teenager I
was asked if I couldn't "stick my tongue out further" but I couldn't. For a
while I was self-conscious about it, but as I got older I realized that I
could lots of things with my tongue and it wasn't making sex any less fun
for me or my partners. Neither of my boys are tongue-tied, but I wouldn't
advise them to change it if they were tongue-tied.
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I didn't realize it was called "tongur-tied". I was tongue-tied. And then I went down a steep driveway on a bike without handlebar covers. The ensuing accident severed the tie. I had 3 popsicles at the hospital to prep my mouth for stitches. It seemed a pretty good deal. The only noted difference was that I could curl my tongue after the accident. Maybe not right after.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Rue Kream <skreams@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 2:32:14 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
**I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
ice cream cones.
It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
any problems at all. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Rue Kream <skreams@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 2:32:14 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
>>I have heard that the only limit will be his kissing ability(frenching) and making the correct r sounds in Spanish. Any comments?
**I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
ice cream cones.
It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
any problems at all. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
tongue-tied. Clearly it shouldn't be called tongur-tied for folks who can't roll their rs. That would be cruel.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 4:28:25 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
I didn't realize it was called "tongur-tied" . I was tongue-tied. And then I went down a steep driveway on a bike without handlebar covers. The ensuing accident severed the tie. I had 3 popsicles at the hospital to prep my mouth for stitches. It seemed a pretty good deal. The only noted difference was that I could curl my tongue after the accident. Maybe not right after.
Schuyler
www.waynforth. blogspot. com
----- Original Message ----
From: Rue Kream <skreams@comcast. net>
To: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 2:32:14 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
**I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
ice cream cones.
It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
any problems at all. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 4:28:25 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
I didn't realize it was called "tongur-tied" . I was tongue-tied. And then I went down a steep driveway on a bike without handlebar covers. The ensuing accident severed the tie. I had 3 popsicles at the hospital to prep my mouth for stitches. It seemed a pretty good deal. The only noted difference was that I could curl my tongue after the accident. Maybe not right after.
Schuyler
www.waynforth. blogspot. com
----- Original Message ----
From: Rue Kream <skreams@comcast. net>
To: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 2:32:14 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
>>I have heard that the only limit will be his kissing ability(frenching) and making the correct r sounds in Spanish. Any comments?
**I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
ice cream cones.
It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
any problems at all. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon
I wouldn't change him either and actually his dentist is surprised at his
range because he can lick his lips. I said that is because his mother is
still trying to lick her own nose. Lol.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Three Mommies
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
I can't roll my R's very well, but no one has said they can't understand me
in Spanish. As for French kissing, it's not my strong suit. As a teenager I
was asked if I couldn't "stick my tongue out further" but I couldn't. For a
while I was self-conscious about it, but as I got older I realized that I
could lots of things with my tongue and it wasn't making sex any less fun
for me or my partners. Neither of my boys are tongue-tied, but I wouldn't
advise them to change it if they were tongue-tied.
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies. <http://3mommies.blogspot.com> blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
range because he can lick his lips. I said that is because his mother is
still trying to lick her own nose. Lol.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Three Mommies
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
>Hey Shannon :)
> I have heard that the only limit will be his kissing ability (frenching)
> and making the correct r sounds in Spanish. Any comments?
I can't roll my R's very well, but no one has said they can't understand me
in Spanish. As for French kissing, it's not my strong suit. As a teenager I
was asked if I couldn't "stick my tongue out further" but I couldn't. For a
while I was self-conscious about it, but as I got older I realized that I
could lots of things with my tongue and it wasn't making sex any less fun
for me or my partners. Neither of my boys are tongue-tied, but I wouldn't
advise them to change it if they were tongue-tied.
Peace,
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies. <http://3mommies.blogspot.com> blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon
Crazy enough. because we have been learning Spanish the r issue has been
bothering him ever since a friend who speaks fluently told him that the r
roll or not rolled can change the word. Today he showed me that he figured
out how to make the sound in the back of his throat and it sounds about the
same and does not cause a lapse in the conversation.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Schuyler
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
tongue-tied. Clearly it shouldn't be called tongur-tied for folks who can't
roll their rs. That would be cruel.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@ <mailto:s.waynforth%40btopenworld.com>
btopenworld.com>
To: unschoolingbasics@ <mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 4:28:25 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
I didn't realize it was called "tongur-tied" . I was tongue-tied. And then I
went down a steep driveway on a bike without handlebar covers. The ensuing
accident severed the tie. I had 3 popsicles at the hospital to prep my mouth
for stitches. It seemed a pretty good deal. The only noted difference was
that I could curl my tongue after the accident. Maybe not right after.
Schuyler
www.waynforth. blogspot. com
----- Original Message ----
From: Rue Kream <skreams@comcast. net>
To: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 2:32:14 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
**I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
ice cream cones.
It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
any problems at all. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bothering him ever since a friend who speaks fluently told him that the r
roll or not rolled can change the word. Today he showed me that he figured
out how to make the sound in the back of his throat and it sounds about the
same and does not cause a lapse in the conversation.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Schuyler
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
tongue-tied. Clearly it shouldn't be called tongur-tied for folks who can't
roll their rs. That would be cruel.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@ <mailto:s.waynforth%40btopenworld.com>
btopenworld.com>
To: unschoolingbasics@ <mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 4:28:25 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
I didn't realize it was called "tongur-tied" . I was tongue-tied. And then I
went down a steep driveway on a bike without handlebar covers. The ensuing
accident severed the tie. I had 3 popsicles at the hospital to prep my mouth
for stitches. It seemed a pretty good deal. The only noted difference was
that I could curl my tongue after the accident. Maybe not right after.
Schuyler
www.waynforth. blogspot. com
----- Original Message ----
From: Rue Kream <skreams@comcast. net>
To: unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008 2:32:14 PM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Tongue tied
>>I have heard that the only limit will be his kissing ability(frenching) and making the correct r sounds in Spanish. Any comments?
**I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
ice cream cones.
It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
any problems at all. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa
I have a friend who's child is tongue tied ... the surgeon they were
referred to told her to give him lots of ice cream cones and lollipops
to help him stretch it ! The surgeon said it just wasn't
recommended unless the child could barely move their tongues... he
felt more comfortable waiting to see if things improved with working
naturally on getting more movement.
He is now 13 (and has significant other special needs due to a genetic
syndrome) but is a master of the ice cream cone!
Lisa B
referred to told her to give him lots of ice cream cones and lollipops
to help him stretch it ! The surgeon said it just wasn't
recommended unless the child could barely move their tongues... he
felt more comfortable waiting to see if things improved with working
naturally on getting more movement.
He is now 13 (and has significant other special needs due to a genetic
syndrome) but is a master of the ice cream cone!
Lisa B
--- In [email protected], "Rue Kream" <skreams@...> wrote:
>
> >>I have heard that the only limit will be his kissing ability
> (frenching) and making the correct r sounds in Spanish. Any comments?
>
> **I am extremely tongue tied. Pretty much the only time I notice it is
> when I eat an ice cream cone. I get a kind of uncomfortable pulling
> feeling - but not nearly uncomfortable enough to dissuade me from eating
> ice cream cones.
>
> It's true that I can't trill my r. Haven't had any complaints on the
> kissing :o), although I do remember worrying about it when I was a kid.
>
> Rowan, who's 11, is also very tongue tied. So far it hasn't caused her
> any problems at all. ~Rue
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Melissa Dietrick
--- In [email protected], "Shannon" <dragteine76@...>
wrote:
natives do: they call it the "soft r" (r moscio)...there is no real
negative judgements attacted to using the "soft r" either--there are
newsmen, professors, who ever, all with that lovely "french" r rolling
about.
so unlike in the US where an incorrect r or l or s gives no end of
trouble (from others) till the child is either shamed out of using it,
or shamed and keeps using it, argh!
melissa,
in italy
mamma of 7
who had a nasal lisp and spent too many hours wondering why I had to
play go fish with that wierd guy in the cage...
still nasal (I think) and no lisp
wrote:
>the r
> Crazy enough. because we have been learning Spanish the r issue has been
> bothering him ever since a friend who speaks fluently told him that
> roll or not rolled can change the word. Today he showed me that hefigured
> out how to make the sound in the back of his throat and it soundsabout the
> same and does not cause a lapse in the conversation.great for him! here in italy, that is just what so many italian
>
natives do: they call it the "soft r" (r moscio)...there is no real
negative judgements attacted to using the "soft r" either--there are
newsmen, professors, who ever, all with that lovely "french" r rolling
about.
so unlike in the US where an incorrect r or l or s gives no end of
trouble (from others) till the child is either shamed out of using it,
or shamed and keeps using it, argh!
melissa,
in italy
mamma of 7
who had a nasal lisp and spent too many hours wondering why I had to
play go fish with that wierd guy in the cage...
still nasal (I think) and no lisp
Three Mommies
>Peace,
> Wow! I roll my Rs in the back of my throat, too! Sometimes friends marvel
> at it and ask me how I do that, but I can't really explain. Now he has a
> cool party trick :)
>
Jean Elizabeth
http://3mommies.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin
Shannon wrote:
for obscure SF fans) and spoke along with the language tapes (the
speaker on the tape and I spoke at the same time). Other teachers and
linguists say to never do that, to always repeat what the speaker said
after they speak, but that doesn't allow the "magic" to happen, in my
experience. To my surprise, my mouth just started producing the rolled
"r" and the throat-clearing "ach" (like St. Sultz (sp?) from Hogan's
Heroes, but now I really am dating myself!). I didn't try at all, they
just started happening after several months of working with tapes of
native speakers. But I am a strong believer in learning new languages
the same way we learned our first (natural language learning or
immersion methods). Our brains are amazing magic makers when it comes to
pattern and language. IMO.
BTW I was teaching myself Irish Gaelic using Buntus Cainte but I'd use
something like the Destinos programs (for Spanish) or the Muzzy shows if
they were available. I had to try to create my own "immersion" as best I
could because there weren't any natural language materials available at
the time that I could find for Irish Gaelic.
Robin
--
Think you can't afford solar--Think Again! check out:
http://www.jointhesolution.com/livinggaia
> Crazy enough. because we have been learning Spanish the r issue has beenI followed the advice of a less-well-known linguist (Suzette Haden Elgin
> bothering him ever since a friend who speaks fluently told him that the r
> roll or not rolled can change the word. Today he showed me that he figured
> out how to make the sound in the back of his throat and it sounds about the
> same and does not cause a lapse in the conversation.
> Shannon
for obscure SF fans) and spoke along with the language tapes (the
speaker on the tape and I spoke at the same time). Other teachers and
linguists say to never do that, to always repeat what the speaker said
after they speak, but that doesn't allow the "magic" to happen, in my
experience. To my surprise, my mouth just started producing the rolled
"r" and the throat-clearing "ach" (like St. Sultz (sp?) from Hogan's
Heroes, but now I really am dating myself!). I didn't try at all, they
just started happening after several months of working with tapes of
native speakers. But I am a strong believer in learning new languages
the same way we learned our first (natural language learning or
immersion methods). Our brains are amazing magic makers when it comes to
pattern and language. IMO.
BTW I was teaching myself Irish Gaelic using Buntus Cainte but I'd use
something like the Destinos programs (for Spanish) or the Muzzy shows if
they were available. I had to try to create my own "immersion" as best I
could because there weren't any natural language materials available at
the time that I could find for Irish Gaelic.
Robin
--
Think you can't afford solar--Think Again! check out:
http://www.jointhesolution.com/livinggaia