Looking for vaccine info
swissarmy_wife
This might be off-topic here but I'm trying to find credible info on
vaccinating children.
We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
uninformed.
So, I've decided that I need to gather as much info as I can to make
our decision regarding vaccination. We've declined whatever he was
supposed to have already. Hep b I think?
Anyway, if anyone can point me in the direction of some good research
or websites or anything, please do. I know that there are strong
opinions on both sides of the issue and I am interested in hearing both.
vaccinating children.
We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
uninformed.
So, I've decided that I need to gather as much info as I can to make
our decision regarding vaccination. We've declined whatever he was
supposed to have already. Hep b I think?
Anyway, if anyone can point me in the direction of some good research
or websites or anything, please do. I know that there are strong
opinions on both sides of the issue and I am interested in hearing both.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 20, 2008, at 7:59 AM, swissarmy_wife wrote:
vaccinated early not because they need it then but because the health
system wants to get as many vaccines in as possible before parents
stop doing well-baby visits. So time is on your side.
My under informed gut feeling is that if there are issues vaccines
are causing that lots would disappear if they waited until kids were
older.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm notProbably the most helpful thing to keep in mind is that kids get
> feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
> uninformed.
vaccinated early not because they need it then but because the health
system wants to get as many vaccines in as possible before parents
stop doing well-baby visits. So time is on your side.
My under informed gut feeling is that if there are issues vaccines
are causing that lots would disappear if they waited until kids were
older.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stephen
Okay, on the Anti-side, I'll post these web sites. Do a search for vaccine
on the sites and sign up for their newsletters. One point that hit home
with me was that to allow someone to inject anything into my body, or the
body of my child, means that I am bestowing the greatest amount of trust I
can bestow. My doctor does not really know what is in the needle he is
using. A large corporation is making billions of dollars by providing this
mandatory injection. Would I trust this corporation with my, or my my
child's, life?
I'm forwarding a newsletter by the group below. Please delete it if it is
of no interest.
http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/
http://www.ewg.org/
http://www.ewg.org/node/16843
At 7/20/2008 +0000 11:59 AM, you wrote:
on the sites and sign up for their newsletters. One point that hit home
with me was that to allow someone to inject anything into my body, or the
body of my child, means that I am bestowing the greatest amount of trust I
can bestow. My doctor does not really know what is in the needle he is
using. A large corporation is making billions of dollars by providing this
mandatory injection. Would I trust this corporation with my, or my my
child's, life?
I'm forwarding a newsletter by the group below. Please delete it if it is
of no interest.
http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/
http://www.ewg.org/
http://www.ewg.org/node/16843
At 7/20/2008 +0000 11:59 AM, you wrote:
>This might be off-topic here but I'm trying to find credible info on
>vaccinating children.
>
>We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
>feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
>uninformed.
>
>So, I've decided that I need to gather as much info as I can to make
>our decision regarding vaccination. We've declined whatever he was
>supposed to have already. Hep b I think?
>
>Anyway, if anyone can point me in the direction of some good research
>or websites or anything, please do. I know that there are strong
>opinions on both sides of the issue and I am interested in hearing both.
Schuyler
One of the problems with not vaccinating is that you are exposing others who may be less able to cope to diseases. It is a public good issue.
There are a lot of studies out there that demonstrate the good of vaccines and a few that argue for the negative. Some of the studies that argue for the negative are about following the money, so looking at who funded what study. It can get quite overwhelming when you read the information.
Simon and Linnaea and David and I are all vaccinated. David would be dead if he hadn't been, quite probably, given the areas where he was raised as a child. Polio is a real thing in much of the world. My step-mother worked with a man who helped to get vaccines to some of the areas of South Africa where polio is rife and the people who she met who suffered at the diseases hands were quite debilitated. There is this fantastic book called Wisconsin Death Trip which is a series of newspaper articles put together about death and crime in Wisconsin in the late 1800s that really demonstrates the change in mortality in 100 years based in some part on vaccinations and in some part on water quality measures.
When Simon was 3 months old we went to Belize, there were people who David interviewed who had 8 out of 10 children die from childhood illnesses. Vaccinations do save lives, they are less likely to in a population that is largely vaccinated merely because the illnesses that are being vaccinated aren't around due to the vaccinations (herd immunity--David wants me to put that in for clarity's sake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity)
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 1:15:51 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for vaccine info
There are a lot of studies out there that demonstrate the good of vaccines and a few that argue for the negative. Some of the studies that argue for the negative are about following the money, so looking at who funded what study. It can get quite overwhelming when you read the information.
Simon and Linnaea and David and I are all vaccinated. David would be dead if he hadn't been, quite probably, given the areas where he was raised as a child. Polio is a real thing in much of the world. My step-mother worked with a man who helped to get vaccines to some of the areas of South Africa where polio is rife and the people who she met who suffered at the diseases hands were quite debilitated. There is this fantastic book called Wisconsin Death Trip which is a series of newspaper articles put together about death and crime in Wisconsin in the late 1800s that really demonstrates the change in mortality in 100 years based in some part on vaccinations and in some part on water quality measures.
When Simon was 3 months old we went to Belize, there were people who David interviewed who had 8 out of 10 children die from childhood illnesses. Vaccinations do save lives, they are less likely to in a population that is largely vaccinated merely because the illnesses that are being vaccinated aren't around due to the vaccinations (herd immunity--David wants me to put that in for clarity's sake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity)
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 1:15:51 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for vaccine info
On Jul 20, 2008, at 7:59 AM, swissarmy_wife wrote:
> We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
> feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
> uninformed.
Probably the most helpful thing to keep in mind is that kids get
vaccinated early not because they need it then but because the health
system wants to get as many vaccines in as possible before parents
stop doing well-baby visits. So time is on your side.
My under informed gut feeling is that if there are issues vaccines
are causing that lots would disappear if they waited until kids were
older.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
My second son had seizures for the first 3 weeks of his life. He had the
Hep B in the hospital but then had nothing else until he was almost 5. I'm
very anti vaccine in animals and kids. And I'm quite sure that whatever it
is 20 vaccines before age 2 is horrifically stressful to a developing immune
system...and since I have autoimmune issues myself, I kept Liam from having
them until we had to get ready to send him to school. (Had I known about
homeschooling/unschooling he likely wouldn't have had any at all.) I also
didn't take him for any well baby check-ups. He was my second child and I
wasn't a scared new mom anymore. I didn't need a Dr telling me he had a big
head and was such and such on the growth chart. He was peeing and pooping
and growing and that was enough.
None of that gives you any real answer to your question. I didn't research
it...I just knew in my gut it was wrong.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hep B in the hospital but then had nothing else until he was almost 5. I'm
very anti vaccine in animals and kids. And I'm quite sure that whatever it
is 20 vaccines before age 2 is horrifically stressful to a developing immune
system...and since I have autoimmune issues myself, I kept Liam from having
them until we had to get ready to send him to school. (Had I known about
homeschooling/unschooling he likely wouldn't have had any at all.) I also
didn't take him for any well baby check-ups. He was my second child and I
wasn't a scared new mom anymore. I didn't need a Dr telling me he had a big
head and was such and such on the growth chart. He was peeing and pooping
and growing and that was enough.
None of that gives you any real answer to your question. I didn't research
it...I just knew in my gut it was wrong.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
yuqi jin
I love Dr Sears' book "The Vaccne Book". I think it's a good foundation from which to explore other information.
yqj
Sent from my iPhone
yqj
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 20, 2008, at 4:59 AM, "swissarmy_wife" <heatherbean@...> wrote:
This might be off-topic here but I'm trying to find credible info on
vaccinating children.
We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
uninformed.
So, I've decided that I need to gather as much info as I can to make
our decision regarding vaccination. We've declined whatever he was
supposed to have already. Hep b I think?
Anyway, if anyone can point me in the direction of some good research
or websites or anything, please do. I know that there are strong
opinions on both sides of the issue and I am interested in hearing both.
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
swissarmy_wife
I have a lot of friends who do not vaccinate. There was a small
Measles outbreak in a town near by. Maybe the herd immunity is
starting to lessen with all the non-vaccinators?
Do some people wait until the child is a bit older? Injecting all
these things into a tiny little body does concern me a bit. I wonder
if there are benefits of waiting a little while? Until their bodies
are stronger?
My second son was vaccinated with the varicella vaccine without my
knowledge, which is one reason I'm digging for info. I knew at the
time I did not want him to have it, yet the doctors just assumed, gave
him the shot, and told me afterward. I don't see a point to the
chicken pox vaccine before age 9 or so.
All the info I find leans so heavily one way or another. Isn't there
a middle ground?
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
issue.
that argue for the negative are about following the money, so looking
at who funded what study. It can get quite overwhelming when you read
the information.
raised as a child. Polio is a real thing in much of the world. My
step-mother worked with a man who helped to get vaccines to some of
the areas of South Africa where polio is rife and the people who she
met who suffered at the diseases hands were quite debilitated. There
is this fantastic book called Wisconsin Death Trip which is a series
of newspaper articles put together about death and crime in Wisconsin
in the late 1800s that really demonstrates the change in mortality in
100 years based in some part on vaccinations and in some part on water
quality measures.
illnesses. Vaccinations do save lives, they are less likely to in a
population that is largely vaccinated merely because the illnesses
that are being vaccinated aren't around due to the vaccinations (herd
immunity--David wants me to put that in for clarity's sake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity)
Measles outbreak in a town near by. Maybe the herd immunity is
starting to lessen with all the non-vaccinators?
Do some people wait until the child is a bit older? Injecting all
these things into a tiny little body does concern me a bit. I wonder
if there are benefits of waiting a little while? Until their bodies
are stronger?
My second son was vaccinated with the varicella vaccine without my
knowledge, which is one reason I'm digging for info. I knew at the
time I did not want him to have it, yet the doctors just assumed, gave
him the shot, and told me afterward. I don't see a point to the
chicken pox vaccine before age 9 or so.
All the info I find leans so heavily one way or another. Isn't there
a middle ground?
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
>others who may be less able to cope to diseases. It is a public good
> One of the problems with not vaccinating is that you are exposing
issue.
> There are a lot of studies out there that demonstrate the good ofvaccines and a few that argue for the negative. Some of the studies
that argue for the negative are about following the money, so looking
at who funded what study. It can get quite overwhelming when you read
the information.
> Simon and Linnaea and David and I are all vaccinated. David would bedead if he hadn't been, quite probably, given the areas where he was
raised as a child. Polio is a real thing in much of the world. My
step-mother worked with a man who helped to get vaccines to some of
the areas of South Africa where polio is rife and the people who she
met who suffered at the diseases hands were quite debilitated. There
is this fantastic book called Wisconsin Death Trip which is a series
of newspaper articles put together about death and crime in Wisconsin
in the late 1800s that really demonstrates the change in mortality in
100 years based in some part on vaccinations and in some part on water
quality measures.
> When Simon was 3 months old we went to Belize, there were people whoDavid interviewed who had 8 out of 10 children die from childhood
illnesses. Vaccinations do save lives, they are less likely to in a
population that is largely vaccinated merely because the illnesses
that are being vaccinated aren't around due to the vaccinations (herd
immunity--David wants me to put that in for clarity's sake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity)
> Schuyler
> www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 1:15:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for vaccine info
>
>
>
> On Jul 20, 2008, at 7:59 AM, swissarmy_wife wrote:
>
> > We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
> > feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
> > uninformed.
>
> Probably the most helpful thing to keep in mind is that kids get
> vaccinated early not because they need it then but because the health
> system wants to get as many vaccines in as possible before parents
> stop doing well-baby visits. So time is on your side.
>
> My under informed gut feeling is that if there are issues vaccines
> are causing that lots would disappear if they waited until kids were
> older.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Schuyler
I found a site that is about reassurance to parents exploring vaccination issues. At the end of the long FAQ sort of thing it has this:
It takes more time to develop the scientific evidence on vaccine risks and benefits than it does to develop fear and doubt. It takes more time to build trust and open communications than to destroy them. We do not live in an era of unquestioning reverence for vaccines, so we must develop the science to evaluate vaccine safety and the skills to communicate the results or we will return to the problems of an earlier age. We have only just begun.
The page is http://www.rainbowpediatrics.net/faq/18.14.html
I think that the author might be being a bit hopeful. I think there are many people who don't trust science in the same way that people don't trust politicians. I don't know how one can rebuild trust in scientific findings.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It takes more time to develop the scientific evidence on vaccine risks and benefits than it does to develop fear and doubt. It takes more time to build trust and open communications than to destroy them. We do not live in an era of unquestioning reverence for vaccines, so we must develop the science to evaluate vaccine safety and the skills to communicate the results or we will return to the problems of an earlier age. We have only just begun.
The page is http://www.rainbowpediatrics.net/faq/18.14.html
I think that the author might be being a bit hopeful. I think there are many people who don't trust science in the same way that people don't trust politicians. I don't know how one can rebuild trust in scientific findings.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa Smith
my first 2 were vax'ed on schedule. My 3rd will be 6 months on Wed and has had nothing. We are delayed/selective vaxing from now on. Dr. Sears has a GREAT book out. He is a quick and easy read. He says what is in each vax and if he thinks you should get it or it can be skipped and why. Also why some people choose to skip it.
Lisa
Lisa
--- On Sun, 7/20/08, swissarmy_wife <heatherbean@...> wrote:
From: swissarmy_wife <heatherbean@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Looking for vaccine info
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, July 20, 2008, 7:59 AM
This might be off-topic here but I'm trying to find credible info on
vaccinating children.
We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
uninformed.
So, I've decided that I need to gather as much info as I can to make
our decision regarding vaccination. We've declined whatever he was
supposed to have already. Hep b I think?
Anyway, if anyone can point me in the direction of some good research
or websites or anything, please do. I know that there are strong
opinions on both sides of the issue and I am interested in hearing both.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
That's interesting: After many decades, just now?, it's time to "develop
the science to evaluate vaccine safety." Good. Maybe the uproar and lack
of trust will lead to bringing out the facts about vaccines, so the rest of
us can know more about how to use them and when.
~Katherine
the science to evaluate vaccine safety." Good. Maybe the uproar and lack
of trust will lead to bringing out the facts about vaccines, so the rest of
us can know more about how to use them and when.
~Katherine
On 7/20/08, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
>
> I found a site that is about reassurance to parents exploring
> vaccination issues. At the end of the long FAQ sort of thing it has this:
> It takes more time to develop the scientific evidence on vaccine risks and
> benefits than it does to develop fear and doubt. It takes more time to build
> trust and open communications than to destroy them. We do not live in an era
> of unquestioning reverence for vaccines, so we must develop the science to
> evaluate vaccine safety and the skills to communicate the results or we will
> return to the problems of an earlier age. We have only just begun.
> The page is http://www.rainbowpediatrics.net/faq/18.14.html
> I think that the author might be being a bit hopeful. I think there are
> many people who don't trust science in the same way that people don't trust
> politicians. I don't know how one can rebuild trust in scientific findings.
> Schuyler
> www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cecegary
There's a fantastic book called "Comparing Natural Immunity With
Vaccinations" by Trevor Gunn. It's a compelling, clear, and easy
read. I highly recommend it. Should clear up any confusion about the
efficacy (or not) of vaccines.
http://www.minimum.com/b.asp?a=comparing-immunity-vaccination
Chelsea
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
Vaccinations" by Trevor Gunn. It's a compelling, clear, and easy
read. I highly recommend it. Should clear up any confusion about the
efficacy (or not) of vaccines.
http://www.minimum.com/b.asp?a=comparing-immunity-vaccination
Chelsea
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
>research
> This might be off-topic here but I'm trying to find credible info on
> vaccinating children.
>
> We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
> feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
> uninformed.
>
> So, I've decided that I need to gather as much info as I can to make
> our decision regarding vaccination. We've declined whatever he was
> supposed to have already. Hep b I think?
>
> Anyway, if anyone can point me in the direction of some good
> or websites or anything, please do. I know that there are strongboth.
> opinions on both sides of the issue and I am interested in hearing
>
pelirojita
Dr Sears has a website http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/
There is an alternative vaccine schedule somewhere on this website. I
am traveling right now or I would spend the time finding it for you.
The big thing is how the sheer number of vaccines have grown since we
were kids and trooping off to the doctor.
The research is just not there yet to know if this huge number of
shots (20+ in by age 2) has any side effects. Each vaccine is
considered safe by itself based on trials (but drug trials in children
is whole other topic...) but it is the combination of so many of them,
over a short period of time, in a small developing body that has not
been adequately studied.
At the same time, I appreciate Schuyler's point about developing
countries. I have lived in SE Asia and traveled widely in Latin
America and have witnessed mothers rioting in the street to get access
to vaccines for their children. When less than half of your children
make it to age 5 due to childhood illnesses, vaccines look pretty good.
My son has had a passport since he was 6 months old. We knew that if
we were going to travel with him, we would have to vaccinate.
Additionally, the spring before I became pregnant I had had whooping
cough and it was a horrible experience so I knew I didn't want to
expose a tiny baby to that trial. There are regular whooping cough
outbreaks in Tucson and I knew I would go along with the DTaP.
I tried to selectively vaccinate on an extended schedule, though found
it challenging with my current pediatrician. I also regularly dosed
him with 1000mg of Vitamin C prior to each shot (I believe I got this
recommendation from my Dr Sears Baby Book.) The only vax we had
trouble with was the MMR. My son had a significant fever and general
unwellness that I would not want to repeat. We recently had a measles
outbreak in Tucson and my friends with young children (under age 2)
who were still going to frequent well-baby visits were getting
pressured to give ANOTHER MMR shot to their children. This didn't
make sense to me and it is in this way that I think the proponents of
vaccinations lose their credibility even when there may be a vital
reason to vaccinate.
Tough topic and very challenging to parse the different sides as the
vested interests have so much at stake from the altruistic, i.e.
public health concerns, to the economic, the huge profits of Big
Pharma as well as the current economics of running a pediatric
practice - vaccine reimbursements are the foundation of their finances.
Good luck,
Kerry
--- In [email protected], Lisa Smith <goobergrl6@...>
wrote:
Sears has a GREAT book out. He is a quick and easy read. He says what
is in each vax and if he thinks you should get it or it can be skipped
and why. Also why some people choose to skip it.
There is an alternative vaccine schedule somewhere on this website. I
am traveling right now or I would spend the time finding it for you.
The big thing is how the sheer number of vaccines have grown since we
were kids and trooping off to the doctor.
The research is just not there yet to know if this huge number of
shots (20+ in by age 2) has any side effects. Each vaccine is
considered safe by itself based on trials (but drug trials in children
is whole other topic...) but it is the combination of so many of them,
over a short period of time, in a small developing body that has not
been adequately studied.
At the same time, I appreciate Schuyler's point about developing
countries. I have lived in SE Asia and traveled widely in Latin
America and have witnessed mothers rioting in the street to get access
to vaccines for their children. When less than half of your children
make it to age 5 due to childhood illnesses, vaccines look pretty good.
My son has had a passport since he was 6 months old. We knew that if
we were going to travel with him, we would have to vaccinate.
Additionally, the spring before I became pregnant I had had whooping
cough and it was a horrible experience so I knew I didn't want to
expose a tiny baby to that trial. There are regular whooping cough
outbreaks in Tucson and I knew I would go along with the DTaP.
I tried to selectively vaccinate on an extended schedule, though found
it challenging with my current pediatrician. I also regularly dosed
him with 1000mg of Vitamin C prior to each shot (I believe I got this
recommendation from my Dr Sears Baby Book.) The only vax we had
trouble with was the MMR. My son had a significant fever and general
unwellness that I would not want to repeat. We recently had a measles
outbreak in Tucson and my friends with young children (under age 2)
who were still going to frequent well-baby visits were getting
pressured to give ANOTHER MMR shot to their children. This didn't
make sense to me and it is in this way that I think the proponents of
vaccinations lose their credibility even when there may be a vital
reason to vaccinate.
Tough topic and very challenging to parse the different sides as the
vested interests have so much at stake from the altruistic, i.e.
public health concerns, to the economic, the huge profits of Big
Pharma as well as the current economics of running a pediatric
practice - vaccine reimbursements are the foundation of their finances.
Good luck,
Kerry
--- In [email protected], Lisa Smith <goobergrl6@...>
wrote:
>and has had nothing. We are delayed/selective vaxing from now on. Dr.
> my first 2 were vax'ed on schedule. My 3rd will be 6 months on Wed
Sears has a GREAT book out. He is a quick and easy read. He says what
is in each vax and if he thinks you should get it or it can be skipped
and why. Also why some people choose to skip it.
> �
> Lisa
>
> --- On Sun, 7/20/08, swissarmy_wife <heatherbean@...> wrote:
Kristie Cochran
A couple of good books that you might want to read are Vaccinations, A
Thoughtful Parent's Gude by Aviva Jill Romm. http://snipurl.com/31xj3
She discusses the history of vaccines, how they were developed, the
diseases and their treatments. Another good book is What Your Doctor
May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations by Stephanie Cave
http://snipurl.com/31xk7 Stephanie Cave is a doctor that treats vaccine
damaged kids. She does recommend vaxxing, but on a very delayed
schedule and by administering one vax at a time and not using the combo
vaxes.
I don't vax my kids. My first was vaxxed until 12mo and then I
stopped. My second hasn't been vaxxed at all. There's no risk of
"exposing" others to disease because we don't carry them in our bodies.
And, because I know how to treat the disease (the first book), I'm not
afraid of them. I had many of these childhood diseases we are now
vaxxing for. I'm not fearful of them. I'm more concerned about the
additives in the vaccines that are neurotoxins.
Kristie
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.3/1563 - Release Date: 7/20/2008 12:59 PM
Thoughtful Parent's Gude by Aviva Jill Romm. http://snipurl.com/31xj3
She discusses the history of vaccines, how they were developed, the
diseases and their treatments. Another good book is What Your Doctor
May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations by Stephanie Cave
http://snipurl.com/31xk7 Stephanie Cave is a doctor that treats vaccine
damaged kids. She does recommend vaxxing, but on a very delayed
schedule and by administering one vax at a time and not using the combo
vaxes.
I don't vax my kids. My first was vaxxed until 12mo and then I
stopped. My second hasn't been vaxxed at all. There's no risk of
"exposing" others to disease because we don't carry them in our bodies.
And, because I know how to treat the disease (the first book), I'm not
afraid of them. I had many of these childhood diseases we are now
vaxxing for. I'm not fearful of them. I'm more concerned about the
additives in the vaccines that are neurotoxins.
Kristie
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Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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cocoandmia
You're right. Everything out there is very pro or very anti-. That's a
good thing. Read both. See where your lifestyle, your child's health,
and basically your reality fit in. For example, are you exclusively
breastfeeding? Do you plan on daycare? Travelling? Any allergies to
worry about? Or religious beliefs? Likelihood of contracting a
disease? Effects of contracting the disease? You may also consider
whether there are some diseases you want your child to get naturally.
You should really tailor it to your child's needs. It will all boil
down to a risk /benefit analysis for each vaccine.
You already did that with hep b. Probably because the baby didn't need
it, thereby exposing him/her to any of the risks seemed ridiculous given
the fact that there was zero benefit, not to mention that the effects
are likely to wear off by the time he/she may be at risk. You may find
this to be true with several other of the recommended vaccines.
Books I recommend are "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About
Children's Vaccines" by Stephanie Cave, and my favorite, "The Vaccine
Guide" by Randall Neustaedter. The former is more neutral. The latter
is pretty anti-vaccine, although I find it objective, but I lean very
much towards his philosophy.
In the meantime, I believe you have plenty of time to educate yourself
on the subject. The ones you may want to start learning about
immediately, because they affect small infants, thus time becomes more
of an issue are: the meningitis vaccines, pertussis, rotovirus, and
polio (only if travelling). If you're nursing, do some research on the
effects of exclusive breastfeeding on immunity wrt vaccine preventable
diseases as well. Feel free to contact me off list if you'd like more
info.
Good luck,
Cristina
good thing. Read both. See where your lifestyle, your child's health,
and basically your reality fit in. For example, are you exclusively
breastfeeding? Do you plan on daycare? Travelling? Any allergies to
worry about? Or religious beliefs? Likelihood of contracting a
disease? Effects of contracting the disease? You may also consider
whether there are some diseases you want your child to get naturally.
You should really tailor it to your child's needs. It will all boil
down to a risk /benefit analysis for each vaccine.
You already did that with hep b. Probably because the baby didn't need
it, thereby exposing him/her to any of the risks seemed ridiculous given
the fact that there was zero benefit, not to mention that the effects
are likely to wear off by the time he/she may be at risk. You may find
this to be true with several other of the recommended vaccines.
Books I recommend are "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About
Children's Vaccines" by Stephanie Cave, and my favorite, "The Vaccine
Guide" by Randall Neustaedter. The former is more neutral. The latter
is pretty anti-vaccine, although I find it objective, but I lean very
much towards his philosophy.
In the meantime, I believe you have plenty of time to educate yourself
on the subject. The ones you may want to start learning about
immediately, because they affect small infants, thus time becomes more
of an issue are: the meningitis vaccines, pertussis, rotovirus, and
polio (only if travelling). If you're nursing, do some research on the
effects of exclusive breastfeeding on immunity wrt vaccine preventable
diseases as well. Feel free to contact me off list if you'd like more
info.
Good luck,
Cristina
Ren Allen
~~One of the problems with not vaccinating is that you are exposing
others who may
be less able to cope to diseases. It is a public good issue. ~~
While I realize there are many arguments on both sides, I think that
is one of the worst.
So I'm supposed to inject my child with potentially toxic substances
for the common good? Oh no, I don't think so.
Every family has to make their own choice, but for the common good
does not play a part in that choice for me. My biggest reason for not
vaccinating is that my children can make their own choice when they
are able to inform themselves. If I chose to vax them before they
could make that choice, I leave them no choice about their very own
bodies.
THEY should have the choice in my opinion.
People with lower immunity are at greater risk anywhere. My healthy
children aren't going to pose a threat, but that child who just got
injected with live polio may very well be a HUGE risk to that person.
Anyway, I realize you aren't looking for my opinion but a variety of
resources. This is the book that got me started in my research many
years ago.
http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Healthy-Child-Spite-Doctor/dp/0345342763
One thing that bothered me greatly about vaccinations is all the other
substances that are still present like mercury. Even though they
aren't supposed to be manufactured with mercury any longer, there are
still a ton of vaccinations that have it (and other toxic ingredients).
If you wait, they can be vaccinated at any point. There's no reason to
rush.
Here's an article about how a polio outbreak happened because of the
vaccination:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060815160951.htm
Here's another article and though it highlights issues from years ago
(vaccinations linked to cancer-causing virus), I think it thoroughly
makes the point of why I don't trust the government or pharmaceuticals
to decide what is healthy for us:
http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Monkey-Virus-Polio-Vaccine.htm
Personally, I think that virus outbreaks will ebb and tide no matter
what humans do to "eradicate" them and you are at risk whether
vaccinated or not.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
others who may
be less able to cope to diseases. It is a public good issue. ~~
While I realize there are many arguments on both sides, I think that
is one of the worst.
So I'm supposed to inject my child with potentially toxic substances
for the common good? Oh no, I don't think so.
Every family has to make their own choice, but for the common good
does not play a part in that choice for me. My biggest reason for not
vaccinating is that my children can make their own choice when they
are able to inform themselves. If I chose to vax them before they
could make that choice, I leave them no choice about their very own
bodies.
THEY should have the choice in my opinion.
People with lower immunity are at greater risk anywhere. My healthy
children aren't going to pose a threat, but that child who just got
injected with live polio may very well be a HUGE risk to that person.
Anyway, I realize you aren't looking for my opinion but a variety of
resources. This is the book that got me started in my research many
years ago.
http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Healthy-Child-Spite-Doctor/dp/0345342763
One thing that bothered me greatly about vaccinations is all the other
substances that are still present like mercury. Even though they
aren't supposed to be manufactured with mercury any longer, there are
still a ton of vaccinations that have it (and other toxic ingredients).
If you wait, they can be vaccinated at any point. There's no reason to
rush.
Here's an article about how a polio outbreak happened because of the
vaccination:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060815160951.htm
Here's another article and though it highlights issues from years ago
(vaccinations linked to cancer-causing virus), I think it thoroughly
makes the point of why I don't trust the government or pharmaceuticals
to decide what is healthy for us:
http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Monkey-Virus-Polio-Vaccine.htm
Personally, I think that virus outbreaks will ebb and tide no matter
what humans do to "eradicate" them and you are at risk whether
vaccinated or not.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Alison Broadbent
Our ped recommends delaying vaxing if you're going to vax. He says
that in Japan when they started giving vax's after the age of 2 the
incidence of adverse reaction went down by a huge percent. He
believes as Joyce does; that doc's vax early bc the babies are in the
system then.
There are chicken pox parties which is how Asher got CP. I've heard
of measles parties too. There are yahoo groups for that purpose but
the one we were on no longer exists. I wouldn't expose a baby
though. Of course, if you're in other parts of the world, it's a
whole other thing.
Alison
that in Japan when they started giving vax's after the age of 2 the
incidence of adverse reaction went down by a huge percent. He
believes as Joyce does; that doc's vax early bc the babies are in the
system then.
There are chicken pox parties which is how Asher got CP. I've heard
of measles parties too. There are yahoo groups for that purpose but
the one we were on no longer exists. I wouldn't expose a baby
though. Of course, if you're in other parts of the world, it's a
whole other thing.
Alison
Karen Swanay
On 7/20/08, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
And here's the thing...if vaccines WORK then one person with say
measles shouldn't cause any issue at all with people who have been
Vx'd. If they are still at risk because the vaccines aren't effective
then why give them? No thanks.
************************
One thing that bothered me greatly about vaccinations is all the other
And do you all know what happened to the vx with mercury in them? And
the live polio? They were sold to the Chinese. That's right. The
companies KNEW those were us safe and they SOLD them to developing
countries. To be used on those children. I know this is true because
my daughter was vx'd with them. It's right on her vaccine record.
And know what her special need is? Autism. It makes me sick to think
about all the kids that are being damaged by these vaccines in
cultures and societies where the tolerance for mental differences is
very low or non-exsistant. A child in China with Autism will be
homeless by age 14. And OUR medical corps don't care.
Karen
> ~~One of the problems with not vaccinating is that you are exposing***********************
> others who may
> be less able to cope to diseases. It is a public good issue. ~~
>
> While I realize there are many arguments on both sides, I think that
> is one of the worst.
> So I'm supposed to inject my child with potentially toxic substances
> for the common good? Oh no, I don't think so.
And here's the thing...if vaccines WORK then one person with say
measles shouldn't cause any issue at all with people who have been
Vx'd. If they are still at risk because the vaccines aren't effective
then why give them? No thanks.
************************
One thing that bothered me greatly about vaccinations is all the other
> substances that are still present like mercury. Even though they**************************
> aren't supposed to be manufactured with mercury any longer, there are
> still a ton of vaccinations that have it (and other toxic ingredients).
And do you all know what happened to the vx with mercury in them? And
the live polio? They were sold to the Chinese. That's right. The
companies KNEW those were us safe and they SOLD them to developing
countries. To be used on those children. I know this is true because
my daughter was vx'd with them. It's right on her vaccine record.
And know what her special need is? Autism. It makes me sick to think
about all the kids that are being damaged by these vaccines in
cultures and societies where the tolerance for mental differences is
very low or non-exsistant. A child in China with Autism will be
homeless by age 14. And OUR medical corps don't care.
Karen
Melissa Gray
Oh no, they are still MADE with thimerosal, the trick is that they
supposedly wash the thimerosal out.
However, my friend took her infant son six months ago for a well-
child check up. She insisted on seeing the insert, and yes, it was an
old lot with full thimerosal in it.
I wasn't going to get involved, but having children with vaccine
injuries, I know for certain that vaccines are not safe for MY
family. Frontal lobe damage goes a long way in social and
communicative disorders.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
supposedly wash the thimerosal out.
However, my friend took her infant son six months ago for a well-
child check up. She insisted on seeing the insert, and yes, it was an
old lot with full thimerosal in it.
I wasn't going to get involved, but having children with vaccine
injuries, I know for certain that vaccines are not safe for MY
family. Frontal lobe damage goes a long way in social and
communicative disorders.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On Jul 20, 2008, at 11:41 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
> One thing that bothered me greatly about vaccinations is all the other
> substances that are still present like mercury. Even though they
> aren't supposed to be manufactured with mercury any longer, there are
> still a ton of vaccinations that have it (and other toxic
> ingredients).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I think it is fair enough to weigh the pros and cons. I even think it is reasonable to question my reasons for vaccinating my children <BWG>. I think that at some level the anti-vac versus pro-vac discussions are much like the anti-abortion versus pro-choice discussions, it is about a certain level of faith. My faith, my questioning ends up with me trusting much of what the scientific community has found, your faith leads you to questioning those backed by the government or big business/drug companies. My great-uncle Murvail died of diptheria. He was 3 years old. My dad gave Simon a plated silver bowl and plate set that Murvail owned. They both have Simple Simon rhymes on them. His last words to his mother, my grandmother's adopted mother, were "The water is so deep and so cold." His mother believed that you passed over a great body of water before you died because of what her son said, her little boy. If I could I would vaccinate Murvail. I would DTaP
him just as I did Simon and Linnaea.
The polio outbreak that you cited, the one in China, demonstrates nicely "herd immunity". To sum up, for those who are vaguely interested but didn't follow the link, China irradicated wild polio in 2000. It isn't mentioned in the article, but in India, where there is still wild polio, prior to introduction of a vaccine 1000 children a day were suffering paralysis at polio's hands, post vaccination it is down to 5 a day. I can't find the citation for that. I can find the 1000 a day, easily, but the 5 a day was from an interview with Nick Grassly that I can't find again. (http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_17-11-2006-13-18-5 says 1000 a day and down to 1500 in 2006 through November). In China 6 children had acute and residual paralysis. They were in a population that had a 72% uptake of the polio vaccine. On the Wikipedia page on herd immunity the threshhold is 80%-86% of the population needs to be immunized for
there to be a herd immunity affect for polio. The vaccine was live polio, which is no longer used in the U.S. And it doesn't spread among those who are vaccinated, interestingly enough, none of the paralysed 6 were vaccinated. And it was stopped by immunizing the rest of the population.
I think there is a lot to be said for herd immunity. I think that one of the considerations if you are going to wait to vaccinate is the uptake of vaccine within the area you live. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity has a really nice table to use for risk assessment. If most people are vaccinated then not vaccinating is pretty safe. The poster who said that we don't carry illness about in our person is right, but if we get chicken pox or measles or diptheria or whooping cough, than we do put those who are immunocompromised, or unvaccinated, at risk.
I found an article at the New York Times from before the varicella vaccination that talks about the risks of chicken pox to some and the halcyon days of yore : http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE3DA143CF936A15751C1A96E948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1.
Oh, and there isn't a varicella vaccine in the UK. It wasn't deemed a necessary public expense.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 5:41:34 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Looking for vaccine info
~~One of the problems with not vaccinating is that you are exposing
others who may
be less able to cope to diseases. It is a public good issue. ~~
While I realize there are many arguments on both sides, I think that
is one of the worst.
So I'm supposed to inject my child with potentially toxic substances
for the common good? Oh no, I don't think so.
Every family has to make their own choice, but for the common good
does not play a part in that choice for me. My biggest reason for not
vaccinating is that my children can make their own choice when they
are able to inform themselves. If I chose to vax them before they
could make that choice, I leave them no choice about their very own
bodies.
THEY should have the choice in my opinion.
People with lower immunity are at greater risk anywhere. My healthy
children aren't going to pose a threat, but that child who just got
injected with live polio may very well be a HUGE risk to that person.
Anyway, I realize you aren't looking for my opinion but a variety of
resources. This is the book that got me started in my research many
years ago.
http://www.amazon com/Raise- Healthy-Child- Spite-Doctor/ dp/0345342763
One thing that bothered me greatly about vaccinations is all the other
substances that are still present like mercury. Even though they
aren't supposed to be manufactured with mercury any longer, there are
still a ton of vaccinations that have it (and other toxic ingredients) .
If you wait, they can be vaccinated at any point. There's no reason to
rush.
Here's an article about how a polio outbreak happened because of the
vaccination:
http://www.scienced aily.com/ releases/ 2006/08/06081516 0951.htm
Here's another article and though it highlights issues from years ago
(vaccinations linked to cancer-causing virus), I think it thoroughly
makes the point of why I don't trust the government or pharmaceuticals
to decide what is healthy for us:
http://www.mindfull y.org/Health/ Monkey-Virus- Polio-Vaccine. htm
Personally, I think that virus outbreaks will ebb and tide no matter
what humans do to "eradicate" them and you are at risk whether
vaccinated or not.
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
him just as I did Simon and Linnaea.
The polio outbreak that you cited, the one in China, demonstrates nicely "herd immunity". To sum up, for those who are vaguely interested but didn't follow the link, China irradicated wild polio in 2000. It isn't mentioned in the article, but in India, where there is still wild polio, prior to introduction of a vaccine 1000 children a day were suffering paralysis at polio's hands, post vaccination it is down to 5 a day. I can't find the citation for that. I can find the 1000 a day, easily, but the 5 a day was from an interview with Nick Grassly that I can't find again. (http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_17-11-2006-13-18-5 says 1000 a day and down to 1500 in 2006 through November). In China 6 children had acute and residual paralysis. They were in a population that had a 72% uptake of the polio vaccine. On the Wikipedia page on herd immunity the threshhold is 80%-86% of the population needs to be immunized for
there to be a herd immunity affect for polio. The vaccine was live polio, which is no longer used in the U.S. And it doesn't spread among those who are vaccinated, interestingly enough, none of the paralysed 6 were vaccinated. And it was stopped by immunizing the rest of the population.
I think there is a lot to be said for herd immunity. I think that one of the considerations if you are going to wait to vaccinate is the uptake of vaccine within the area you live. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity has a really nice table to use for risk assessment. If most people are vaccinated then not vaccinating is pretty safe. The poster who said that we don't carry illness about in our person is right, but if we get chicken pox or measles or diptheria or whooping cough, than we do put those who are immunocompromised, or unvaccinated, at risk.
I found an article at the New York Times from before the varicella vaccination that talks about the risks of chicken pox to some and the halcyon days of yore : http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE3DA143CF936A15751C1A96E948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1.
Oh, and there isn't a varicella vaccine in the UK. It wasn't deemed a necessary public expense.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 5:41:34 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Looking for vaccine info
~~One of the problems with not vaccinating is that you are exposing
others who may
be less able to cope to diseases. It is a public good issue. ~~
While I realize there are many arguments on both sides, I think that
is one of the worst.
So I'm supposed to inject my child with potentially toxic substances
for the common good? Oh no, I don't think so.
Every family has to make their own choice, but for the common good
does not play a part in that choice for me. My biggest reason for not
vaccinating is that my children can make their own choice when they
are able to inform themselves. If I chose to vax them before they
could make that choice, I leave them no choice about their very own
bodies.
THEY should have the choice in my opinion.
People with lower immunity are at greater risk anywhere. My healthy
children aren't going to pose a threat, but that child who just got
injected with live polio may very well be a HUGE risk to that person.
Anyway, I realize you aren't looking for my opinion but a variety of
resources. This is the book that got me started in my research many
years ago.
http://www.amazon com/Raise- Healthy-Child- Spite-Doctor/ dp/0345342763
One thing that bothered me greatly about vaccinations is all the other
substances that are still present like mercury. Even though they
aren't supposed to be manufactured with mercury any longer, there are
still a ton of vaccinations that have it (and other toxic ingredients) .
If you wait, they can be vaccinated at any point. There's no reason to
rush.
Here's an article about how a polio outbreak happened because of the
vaccination:
http://www.scienced aily.com/ releases/ 2006/08/06081516 0951.htm
Here's another article and though it highlights issues from years ago
(vaccinations linked to cancer-causing virus), I think it thoroughly
makes the point of why I don't trust the government or pharmaceuticals
to decide what is healthy for us:
http://www.mindfull y.org/Health/ Monkey-Virus- Polio-Vaccine. htm
Personally, I think that virus outbreaks will ebb and tide no matter
what humans do to "eradicate" them and you are at risk whether
vaccinated or not.
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hannah Gaitten
Hi there!
How wise of you to look into this! My daughter is 15 months old and has not had any well-baby visits or vaccinations. My intuition tells me not to vaccinate. My husband says he wants to research before making a fianl decision, but so far, he has done no research- I think ultimately he believes that the risks of vaccinations are greater than the benefits.
There are some vaccines, like the chicken pox, that I am not sure why this is needed. I had chicken pox, and though it was uncomfortable for a week, I survived, and am now stronger for it. If we never give our immune system the opportunity to overcome sickness, then we will become weaker overall. With questionable ingredients, and aggressive schedules, I don't feel good about, nor do I trust, those that tell me that I should blindly trust the doctors and associations that encourage all of these vaccinations. Vaccination does not equal immunity!
That being said, here are some really great resources for you:
Vaccinations by Aviva Jill Romm- she is very informative. It would be hard to guess what her stance is on the issue as this book is all about giving facts, not her own personal opinion.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/2/14/why-vaccines-aren-t-safe.aspx
http://www.truehealthfacts.com/reasearch-news/vaccines.html
http://thinktwice.com/
http://www.nvic.org/
http://www.know-vaccines.org/autism.html
http://www.informedchoice.info/index.php
I have not done a ton of research on these links, they are just what I have in my "when I have spare time" pile of links to look through. As with any resource, take it with a grain of salt and follow your intuition. I would also recommend finding a Natropath as they know natural ways of combating concerns over diseases, viruses, etc. Natropaths work WITH your body and nature to find optimal health. I believe most doctors work against your body by pushing prescriptions and other highly medicalized procedures.
I hope that this is helpful! Good luck in your research!
Hannah Gaitten
www.naturalchoices4baby.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How wise of you to look into this! My daughter is 15 months old and has not had any well-baby visits or vaccinations. My intuition tells me not to vaccinate. My husband says he wants to research before making a fianl decision, but so far, he has done no research- I think ultimately he believes that the risks of vaccinations are greater than the benefits.
There are some vaccines, like the chicken pox, that I am not sure why this is needed. I had chicken pox, and though it was uncomfortable for a week, I survived, and am now stronger for it. If we never give our immune system the opportunity to overcome sickness, then we will become weaker overall. With questionable ingredients, and aggressive schedules, I don't feel good about, nor do I trust, those that tell me that I should blindly trust the doctors and associations that encourage all of these vaccinations. Vaccination does not equal immunity!
That being said, here are some really great resources for you:
Vaccinations by Aviva Jill Romm- she is very informative. It would be hard to guess what her stance is on the issue as this book is all about giving facts, not her own personal opinion.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/2/14/why-vaccines-aren-t-safe.aspx
http://www.truehealthfacts.com/reasearch-news/vaccines.html
http://thinktwice.com/
http://www.nvic.org/
http://www.know-vaccines.org/autism.html
http://www.informedchoice.info/index.php
I have not done a ton of research on these links, they are just what I have in my "when I have spare time" pile of links to look through. As with any resource, take it with a grain of salt and follow your intuition. I would also recommend finding a Natropath as they know natural ways of combating concerns over diseases, viruses, etc. Natropaths work WITH your body and nature to find optimal health. I believe most doctors work against your body by pushing prescriptions and other highly medicalized procedures.
I hope that this is helpful! Good luck in your research!
Hannah Gaitten
www.naturalchoices4baby.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~My faith, my questioning ends up with me trusting much of what the
scientific community has found, your faith leads you to questioning
those backed by the government or big business/drug companies.~~
It's more about faith in nature and my body's own ability to deal with
these things when in a healthy environment. I think people will die of
diseases forever. I believe in our rush to make everything padded and
safe we often bypass nature. Or try to anyway. As sad as the story
about your uncle is, he could have died from the same disease if he
had the vax. That vax is considered one of the most problematic and
even when we had a more mainstream doc he advised against it.
Living with damage from vaccinations is no picnic either.
Over the course of history, viruses ebb and tide. I believe we are on
the cusp of a rise and people with vaccines will not be any safer. As
with anything, I could be wrong. Time will tell whether vaccines are
truly useful or whether we simply introduced them at a point in
history when there was a natural ebb of disease.
Either way, I think it's good to question people who say they have our
best interest at heart. I'm the only one who can truly have my own
best interest at heart. I especially question people whose motive is
money.
And yes, I even question myself.;)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
scientific community has found, your faith leads you to questioning
those backed by the government or big business/drug companies.~~
It's more about faith in nature and my body's own ability to deal with
these things when in a healthy environment. I think people will die of
diseases forever. I believe in our rush to make everything padded and
safe we often bypass nature. Or try to anyway. As sad as the story
about your uncle is, he could have died from the same disease if he
had the vax. That vax is considered one of the most problematic and
even when we had a more mainstream doc he advised against it.
Living with damage from vaccinations is no picnic either.
Over the course of history, viruses ebb and tide. I believe we are on
the cusp of a rise and people with vaccines will not be any safer. As
with anything, I could be wrong. Time will tell whether vaccines are
truly useful or whether we simply introduced them at a point in
history when there was a natural ebb of disease.
Either way, I think it's good to question people who say they have our
best interest at heart. I'm the only one who can truly have my own
best interest at heart. I especially question people whose motive is
money.
And yes, I even question myself.;)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
My under informed gut feeling is that if there are issues vaccines
are causing that lots would disappear if they waited until kids were
older.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I wanted to delay and pick and choose vaccines and now that Gigi is almost 30 months old and I am thinking time for tetanus would be good since we do live in a farm with lots of manure I cannot do it.
How can I hold her down for someone else to come inflict pain on her?
She is too young to understand if we talk about it.
I know I will hurt the trust she has in me if I do that so I guess I will have to wait even longer to get those shots.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
are causing that lots would disappear if they waited until kids were
older.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I wanted to delay and pick and choose vaccines and now that Gigi is almost 30 months old and I am thinking time for tetanus would be good since we do live in a farm with lots of manure I cannot do it.
How can I hold her down for someone else to come inflict pain on her?
She is too young to understand if we talk about it.
I know I will hurt the trust she has in me if I do that so I guess I will have to wait even longer to get those shots.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Therese
Vaccines were already on the decline before mass inoculation was
required... most likely due to better sanitation practices.
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/decline1.html
<http://www.whale.to/vaccines/decline1.html>
Please read the NVIC website!
http://www.nvic.org/Issues/Intro_Message.htm
<http://www.nvic.org/Issues/Intro_Message.htm>
"Annually, 12,000 to 14,000 reports of hospitalizations, injuries and
deaths following vaccinations are made to the federal Vaccine Adverse
Event Reporting System, and yet about 90 percent of doctors fail to
report these reactions."
http://www.vaccineinfo.net/immunization/immunization_risks_serious.shtml
<http://www.vaccineinfo.net/immunization/immunization_risks_serious.shtm\
l>
An vax refusal form with lots of info; weighing the risks of vaxing to
the risk of catching the disease
http://www.geocities.com/heartland/ranch/4172/VacRefuse.html
<http://www.geocities.com/heartland/ranch/4172/VacRefuse.html>
And THE VACCINE BOOK
<http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Book-Decision-Parenting-Library/dp/031601\
7507/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216587678&sr=8-1> by Dr.
Sears
SHOT IN THE DARK
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/089529463X/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link>
by Harris L Coulter and Barbara Loe Fisher
My older dd had "normal" vaccine reactions of high fever, high- pitched
screaming, large red-hot welts at site of injections, and lethargy- all
"normal" the doctor said. Then I started to do my own research.
Needless to say we didnt vaccinate our 2nd dd, and wont be vaccinating
any more. i had no idea that aborted fetal tissue was used in the
making of certain vax's... not to mention formaldahyde (a known
carcinogenic).
http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html
<http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html>
Sids and vaccines... a parent's story
http://www.thinktwice.com/sids.htm <http://www.thinktwice.com/sids.htm>
There is so much more. Also check out www.mothering.com/discussions
<http://www.mothering.com/discussions> in the vaccine forum.
Hugs,
Therese
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
required... most likely due to better sanitation practices.
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/decline1.html
<http://www.whale.to/vaccines/decline1.html>
Please read the NVIC website!
http://www.nvic.org/Issues/Intro_Message.htm
<http://www.nvic.org/Issues/Intro_Message.htm>
"Annually, 12,000 to 14,000 reports of hospitalizations, injuries and
deaths following vaccinations are made to the federal Vaccine Adverse
Event Reporting System, and yet about 90 percent of doctors fail to
report these reactions."
http://www.vaccineinfo.net/immunization/immunization_risks_serious.shtml
<http://www.vaccineinfo.net/immunization/immunization_risks_serious.shtm\
l>
An vax refusal form with lots of info; weighing the risks of vaxing to
the risk of catching the disease
http://www.geocities.com/heartland/ranch/4172/VacRefuse.html
<http://www.geocities.com/heartland/ranch/4172/VacRefuse.html>
And THE VACCINE BOOK
<http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Book-Decision-Parenting-Library/dp/031601\
7507/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216587678&sr=8-1> by Dr.
Sears
SHOT IN THE DARK
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/089529463X/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link>
by Harris L Coulter and Barbara Loe Fisher
My older dd had "normal" vaccine reactions of high fever, high- pitched
screaming, large red-hot welts at site of injections, and lethargy- all
"normal" the doctor said. Then I started to do my own research.
Needless to say we didnt vaccinate our 2nd dd, and wont be vaccinating
any more. i had no idea that aborted fetal tissue was used in the
making of certain vax's... not to mention formaldahyde (a known
carcinogenic).
http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html
<http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html>
Sids and vaccines... a parent's story
http://www.thinktwice.com/sids.htm <http://www.thinktwice.com/sids.htm>
There is so much more. Also check out www.mothering.com/discussions
<http://www.mothering.com/discussions> in the vaccine forum.
Hugs,
Therese
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Therese
Dr. Sears says that the most important time to vaccinate is during
infancy and if you aren't going to vaccinate until 2, then you may as
well not do it at all. (Thats if you believe vaccines work). But then
he also says that if you are breastfeeding and don't have your babies
in daycare then its very very unlikely to catch these diseases.
He recommends a (somewhat) delayed and alternative vax schedule in
his book. (What some would call middle of the road).
Measles used to be a common childhood illness, like chickenpox used
to be. I never knew anyone die from chickenpox.. but ofcourse now
they scare you into vaccinating 'or you child could die!' Some
believe that it is to our detriment that these diseases aren't around
anymore- that they stimulate the immune system.
Here is an interesting article on measles and what the cdc says;
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?p=65
Therese
Gentle Christian mama to my girls
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
infancy and if you aren't going to vaccinate until 2, then you may as
well not do it at all. (Thats if you believe vaccines work). But then
he also says that if you are breastfeeding and don't have your babies
in daycare then its very very unlikely to catch these diseases.
He recommends a (somewhat) delayed and alternative vax schedule in
his book. (What some would call middle of the road).
Measles used to be a common childhood illness, like chickenpox used
to be. I never knew anyone die from chickenpox.. but ofcourse now
they scare you into vaccinating 'or you child could die!' Some
believe that it is to our detriment that these diseases aren't around
anymore- that they stimulate the immune system.
Here is an interesting article on measles and what the cdc says;
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?p=65
Therese
Gentle Christian mama to my girls
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
>wonder
> I have a lot of friends who do not vaccinate. There was a small
> Measles outbreak in a town near by. Maybe the herd immunity is
> starting to lessen with all the non-vaccinators?
>
> Do some people wait until the child is a bit older? Injecting all
> these things into a tiny little body does concern me a bit. I
> if there are benefits of waiting a little while? Until their bodiesgave
> are stronger?
>
> My second son was vaccinated with the varicella vaccine without my
> knowledge, which is one reason I'm digging for info. I knew at the
> time I did not want him to have it, yet the doctors just assumed,
> him the shot, and told me afterward. I don't see a point to thethere
> chicken pox vaccine before age 9 or so.
>
> All the info I find leans so heavily one way or another. Isn't
> a middle ground?
>
Therese
Info on tetanus
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?page_id=32
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
since we do live in a farm with lots of manure I cannot do it.
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/?page_id=32
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>almost 30 months old and I am thinking time for tetanus would be good
> I wanted to delay and pick and choose vaccines and now that Gigi is
since we do live in a farm with lots of manure I cannot do it.
> How can I hold her down for someone else to come inflict pain on her?will have to wait even longer to get those shots.
> She is too young to understand if we talk about it.
> I know I will hurt the trust she has in me if I do that so I guess I
>
>
Therese
Our old vaccines are given to other countries now. :(
We don't use OPV in the US anymore I don't think.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21149823/
We don't use OPV in the US anymore I don't think.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21149823/
sophiapclark
We have a 4 y.o. DD and one due in 3 weeks. Our first was vaccinated
up until her 3rd bday, when I started doing major research. This baby
will not be vaccinated at all. I highly recommend watching Dr. Sherri
Tenpenny's DVD titled "Vaccines: What CDC Documents and Science
Reveal". It's very informative, thorough, and the information is
trustworthy, because she goes over actual CDC documents in detail.
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
up until her 3rd bday, when I started doing major research. This baby
will not be vaccinated at all. I highly recommend watching Dr. Sherri
Tenpenny's DVD titled "Vaccines: What CDC Documents and Science
Reveal". It's very informative, thorough, and the information is
trustworthy, because she goes over actual CDC documents in detail.
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
>
> This might be off-topic here but I'm trying to find credible info on
> vaccinating children.
>
> We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
> feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
> uninformed.
>
> So, I've decided that I need to gather as much info as I can to make
> our decision regarding vaccination. We've declined whatever he was
> supposed to have already. Hep b I think?
>
> Anyway, if anyone can point me in the direction of some good research
> or websites or anything, please do. I know that there are strong
> opinions on both sides of the issue and I am interested in hearing both.
>
Starr
Here is a link to a friend of mine's website, she has done some
research on this, the link is:
http://www.freewebs.com/naturalbeauty/healthconspiracies.htm
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
research on this, the link is:
http://www.freewebs.com/naturalbeauty/healthconspiracies.htm
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
>
> This might be off-topic here but I'm trying to find credible info on
> vaccinating children.
>
> We just welcomed baby #3 into out family 10 days ago. While I'm not
> feeling particularly pro OR anti vaccines, I am feeling a little
> uninformed.
>
> So, I've decided that I need to gather as much info as I can to make
> our decision regarding vaccination. We've declined whatever he was
> supposed to have already. Hep b I think?
>
> Anyway, if anyone can point me in the direction of some good research
> or websites or anything, please do. I know that there are strong
> opinions on both sides of the issue and I am interested in hearing both.
>
Kelly
For what it's worth, the only vaccine my pediatrician recommends getting is
the tetanus vax (unless you're travelling to certain countries outside the
U.S.).but not until one of my kids (or their father or me!) gets an open
injury while visiting a farm. Then get one within (I think) 24 hours, and
you'll have no problems.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the tetanus vax (unless you're travelling to certain countries outside the
U.S.).but not until one of my kids (or their father or me!) gets an open
injury while visiting a farm. Then get one within (I think) 24 hours, and
you'll have no problems.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Gray
Well, the funny thing about the tetanus vax is if you have an injury
bad enough to require ER care, they usually (in our area anyway) give
(or offer) a tetanus shot regardless of when your last vaccination
was. When I pointed that out to our ped, he just laughed and ceded my
point.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
bad enough to require ER care, they usually (in our area anyway) give
(or offer) a tetanus shot regardless of when your last vaccination
was. When I pointed that out to our ped, he just laughed and ceded my
point.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On Jul 20, 2008, at 10:06 PM, Kelly wrote:
> For what it's worth, the only vaccine my pediatrician recommends
> getting is
> the tetanus vax (unless you're travelling to certain countries
> outside the
> U.S.).but not until one of my kids (or their father or me!) gets an
> open
> injury while visiting a farm. Then get one within (I think) 24
> hours, and
> you'll have no problems.
>
> Kelly
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]