Widening world, money, and 9 year old
Zoa Conner
Something interesting and frustrating has been going on for the last 2
months with my ds9. It started out with him riding a friend¹s electric
scooter. He then decided he wanted one. He started browsing online and
within a week had changed his mind from an electric scooter ($200) to an
electric riding toy to an electric dirt bike to a gas dirt bike ($2800). We
have told him that we do not have that quantity of money available for his
entertainment. We talk about gas usage and cost, clean air, what he might
have to choose not to do/have in order to free up those funds. He looks at
our finances with us in Quicken, and then gets all upset because it looks to
him like we have a lot in savings. We explain that we want 6 mos of living
expenses and need to replenish the money we just spent on a car and property
taxes and etc. So they money he sees in the accounts is not available for
spending. He says we are mean and gets all upset. Over the last 2 months he
has continues to look for something with a motor for his entertainment. He
is now stomping and yelling at me when he says things like ³lets buy this
$15,000 boat² and I say that is unreasonable. I am getting tired of his
reactions and requests. We have talked about his needs such as he knows what
they are (fun). He has experience handling money and saved $70 on his own
for his racing bike last year (a $700 purchase). I have helped him make a
list of desirable qualities of this vehicle (goes fast), we have talked
about where he could ride it (basically on the driveway for a dirt bike
without purchasing a hitch, trailer, and paying fees for a track), I have
taken him window shopping to sit on the vehicles (they don¹t allow test
drives). I asked a friend with a motorcycle to give ds a ride, and ds said
he would think about it (not gotten back to me yet). I think I need help
seeing a better way of handling this situation. Dh thinks I have been
stringing ds along because dh does not want to purchase any of these items.
Oh, and ds has yet to save even $1 for this vehicle which he says is really
important. Any ideas?
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
months with my ds9. It started out with him riding a friend¹s electric
scooter. He then decided he wanted one. He started browsing online and
within a week had changed his mind from an electric scooter ($200) to an
electric riding toy to an electric dirt bike to a gas dirt bike ($2800). We
have told him that we do not have that quantity of money available for his
entertainment. We talk about gas usage and cost, clean air, what he might
have to choose not to do/have in order to free up those funds. He looks at
our finances with us in Quicken, and then gets all upset because it looks to
him like we have a lot in savings. We explain that we want 6 mos of living
expenses and need to replenish the money we just spent on a car and property
taxes and etc. So they money he sees in the accounts is not available for
spending. He says we are mean and gets all upset. Over the last 2 months he
has continues to look for something with a motor for his entertainment. He
is now stomping and yelling at me when he says things like ³lets buy this
$15,000 boat² and I say that is unreasonable. I am getting tired of his
reactions and requests. We have talked about his needs such as he knows what
they are (fun). He has experience handling money and saved $70 on his own
for his racing bike last year (a $700 purchase). I have helped him make a
list of desirable qualities of this vehicle (goes fast), we have talked
about where he could ride it (basically on the driveway for a dirt bike
without purchasing a hitch, trailer, and paying fees for a track), I have
taken him window shopping to sit on the vehicles (they don¹t allow test
drives). I asked a friend with a motorcycle to give ds a ride, and ds said
he would think about it (not gotten back to me yet). I think I need help
seeing a better way of handling this situation. Dh thinks I have been
stringing ds along because dh does not want to purchase any of these items.
Oh, and ds has yet to save even $1 for this vehicle which he says is really
important. Any ideas?
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 18, 2008, at 7:42 PM, Zoa Conner wrote:
a partner. What you're doing with your "reasoning" is building a
higher and higher wall between him and what he wants. Of course he's
going to get frustrated with you. Of course he's going to fight it.
If you wanted something -- a piece of cheesecake perhaps -- and
someone started giving you tons of reasons why he thinks you
shouldn't want it, would it make you want it less? Or would you feel
like saying "screw you?"
You can't logic the want away. You can only make him more mad at you
for trying to make it go away.
Isn't it a *good* quality in adults to see obstacles and want to get
them out of the way? Isn't it not so good for a adults to see an
obstacle and give up? Why do we want our children to be different?
Why do we expect them to back off of obstacles as children and then
become obstacle fighters as adults?
saying is that you're *choosing* not to spend it. You're *choosing*
to rebuild 6 months of living expenses as a back up. You're
*choosing* your desire over his desire for a dirt bike. He knows
you're lying when you say it's not available because it is clearly
sitting there (and was available to dip into for a car.) He knows
you're *choosing* to not make it available when he wants something.
*That's* why your argument is falling on deaf ears.
An interest is an interest. Was Evel Knievel's interest in
motorcycles for his entertainment? He was serious about motorcycles.
Treat your son's interests with respect. (And, as a bonus, he'll
treat your need to watch a science show when your 105 with respect.
He'll go that extra mile to make sure your aural implants for your
non-functioning ears are working and you get to your advanced Lasik
surgery because he knows the show is something that delights you and
he wants you to be happy. Or would you rather hear all the reasons he
doesn't want to help you?)
It sounds like you've done a lot of other good things but don't focus
on the no, focus on the positives. "It makes us uncomfortable to
spend the cushion. Let's see what else we can do first."
Have you looked into used? Do you have a church or other group you
belong to send out feelers for something someone might have in their
garage? How much *can* you afford if it was for something that wasn't
what you label "entertainment"?
You have the opportunity to show him problem solving in action rather
than obstacle building. Put the effort into this that you'd put into
helping him get something that wasn't for "entertainment".
Joyce
> We talk about gas usage and cost, clean air, what he mightYou're having problems because he sees you as an obstacle rather than
> have to choose not to do/have in order to free up those funds.
a partner. What you're doing with your "reasoning" is building a
higher and higher wall between him and what he wants. Of course he's
going to get frustrated with you. Of course he's going to fight it.
If you wanted something -- a piece of cheesecake perhaps -- and
someone started giving you tons of reasons why he thinks you
shouldn't want it, would it make you want it less? Or would you feel
like saying "screw you?"
You can't logic the want away. You can only make him more mad at you
for trying to make it go away.
Isn't it a *good* quality in adults to see obstacles and want to get
them out of the way? Isn't it not so good for a adults to see an
obstacle and give up? Why do we want our children to be different?
Why do we expect them to back off of obstacles as children and then
become obstacle fighters as adults?
> We explain that we want 6 mos of livingYes it is available. I'm not saying you should spend it. What I'm
> expenses and need to replenish the money we just spent on a car and
> property
> taxes and etc. So they money he sees in the accounts is not
> available for
> spending.
saying is that you're *choosing* not to spend it. You're *choosing*
to rebuild 6 months of living expenses as a back up. You're
*choosing* your desire over his desire for a dirt bike. He knows
you're lying when you say it's not available because it is clearly
sitting there (and was available to dip into for a car.) He knows
you're *choosing* to not make it available when he wants something.
*That's* why your argument is falling on deaf ears.
> We talk about gas usage and cost, clean air, what he mightIt's denigrating to someone's interests to label them entertainment.
> have to choose not to do/have in order to free up those funds.
An interest is an interest. Was Evel Knievel's interest in
motorcycles for his entertainment? He was serious about motorcycles.
Treat your son's interests with respect. (And, as a bonus, he'll
treat your need to watch a science show when your 105 with respect.
He'll go that extra mile to make sure your aural implants for your
non-functioning ears are working and you get to your advanced Lasik
surgery because he knows the show is something that delights you and
he wants you to be happy. Or would you rather hear all the reasons he
doesn't want to help you?)
It sounds like you've done a lot of other good things but don't focus
on the no, focus on the positives. "It makes us uncomfortable to
spend the cushion. Let's see what else we can do first."
Have you looked into used? Do you have a church or other group you
belong to send out feelers for something someone might have in their
garage? How much *can* you afford if it was for something that wasn't
what you label "entertainment"?
You have the opportunity to show him problem solving in action rather
than obstacle building. Put the effort into this that you'd put into
helping him get something that wasn't for "entertainment".
Joyce
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Zoa Conner <zoaconner@...>
It started out with him riding a friend¹s electric
scooter. He then decided he wanted one. He started browsing online and
within a week had changed his mind from an electric scooter ($200) to an
electric riding toy to an electric dirt bike to a gas dirt bike
($2800). We
have told him that we do not have that quantity of money available for
his
entertainment.
-=-=-=-==-
Ouch!
How did that make him feel? Not enough money for "his entertainment."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
We talk about gas usage and cost, clean air, what he might
have to choose not to do/have in order to free up those funds.
-=-=-=-=-
And he was willing to sacrifice a little clean air and all the other
things he does and haves in exchange for the dirt bike, right?
-==-=-==-
He looks at our finances with us in Quicken, and then gets all upset
because it looks to
him like we have a lot in savings. We explain that we want 6 mos of
living
expenses and need to replenish the money we just spent on a car and
property
taxes and etc.
-==-=--=-=
You *choose* to have six months of living expenses. You've made that
*choice*. It's an honorable *choice*. Many people don't prepare that
far ahead, so that's a great goal. But it's a *choice* you and your
husband have made.
-=-=-=-=-=-
=0
A
So they money he sees in the accounts is not available for
spending. He says we are mean and gets all upset.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Unless there's something really important, right?
What things would be considered important enough to dig into your
savings?
-=-=-=-=-
Over the last 2 months he
has continues to look for something with a motor for his entertainment.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Could you PLEASE drop the "for his entertainment" part of this??? It's
demeaning to him and his wants/passions.
This computer you're writing on could be considered "for your
entertainment" too. So could that new book you just bought. "For your
entertainment" is a perfectly good *reason* to buy things. Really.
"Over the last two months, he has continued to look for something with
a motor" is a fine statement all by itself. Adding the "for his
entertainment" trivializes it.
-=-=-=-=-=-
He is now stomping and yelling at me when he says things like ³lets buy
this
$15,000 boat² and I say that is unreasonable.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Why? Because no one likes boating? Because you live in Kansas? Because
that's a year's mortgage? What's the reason you're giving him?
And why is he asking? Does he really want a boat? Or is it to get your
goat?
-=-=-=-=-
I am getting tired of his reactions and requests.
-=-=-=
Maybe it IS to get your goat.
Can you imagine how tired he's getting of your reactions and excuses?
-=-==-=-=-
We have talked about his needs such as he knows what
they are (fun).
-=-=-=-
So...have you all *agreed* that he has a *need* for FUN? And that his
need for fun not quite as important as your need for six months of
living expenses.
Keep in mind that six months of "safe" living shouldn't include no fun.
Seriously. What's a "paid for life" if you can't have fun? Wouldn't
five months with a "cushion" AND a whole lot of fun be better than six
months of NO fun at all?
-=-=-=-=-=-
I think I need help
seeing a better way of handling this situation. Dh thinks I have been
stringing ds along because dh does not want to purchase any of these
items.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Let's talk about that a sec:
WHAT?
Would the mindset be different if the child wanted an expensive
microscope or telescope? (I'm trying to think of "educational" or more
"grown up" items---something less *fun*.)
Sooo...wait him out so that he'll quit wanting it? What kind of example
are you modeling? Not taking others' wants/needs seriously? But your
son needs to take *your* need to have a six month cushion seriously?
Let me know how that works out! <g>
-=-=-=-
Oh, and ds has yet to save even $1 for this vehicle which he says is
really
important. Any ideas?
0A
-=-=-=-
If you knew there was $5000 in your mattress, would you be trying
really hard to earn $50? <g>
You know, it may not about actually *getting* the dirt bike. Your
immediate brakes to his thought process may have taken him by surprise.
Made him feel less important to you than the mortgage. *IS* he less
important to you?
Go to dirt bike events. Get to know dirt-bikers. Show up weekend after
weekend. Become a part of the "gang."
Subscribe to dirt bike magazines, buy shirts with dirt bikes on them,
find dirt bike videos to watch on Youtube.
Fill his world with all the dirt bikes you can without actually buying
one right now. But agree to put aside so much $$ each week/month for a
used bike. Work WITH him to help him meet his passion. Maybe suggest
that the money you normally spend on movies or ice cream or Starbucks
could be put aside for the bike. If *everyone* of you sacrificed just a
little, maybe it *will* become affordable. Let him see you working WITH
him rather than shutting him down.
We ALL love to help others in our sport---especially newbies. After the
second or third event, I'd bet someone would offer him a ride. After
the eighth or tenth, someone may say, "You know, I have pretty old dirt
bike in the garage. It needs some work, but if you're willing to help
me fix that carburetor...."
My suggestion is to quit shutting him down. NOW.
0A
I'm NOT saying that you have to go right out and spend $3000 on a dirt
bike. *We* couldn't do that. (Not after the $7000 we just spent to send
our son to the Yukon for four weeks!) But it's important to take their
wants and needs seriously. As seriously as we want them to take OUR
wants and needs.
PLEASE stop looking at it as "just entertainment"---it's NOT: it's
physics and chemistry and algebra and geometry and finances and history
and, and, and---and all that wrapped up in a really cool dirt bike.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
IT may not be about
From: Zoa Conner <zoaconner@...>
It started out with him riding a friend¹s electric
scooter. He then decided he wanted one. He started browsing online and
within a week had changed his mind from an electric scooter ($200) to an
electric riding toy to an electric dirt bike to a gas dirt bike
($2800). We
have told him that we do not have that quantity of money available for
his
entertainment.
-=-=-=-==-
Ouch!
How did that make him feel? Not enough money for "his entertainment."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
We talk about gas usage and cost, clean air, what he might
have to choose not to do/have in order to free up those funds.
-=-=-=-=-
And he was willing to sacrifice a little clean air and all the other
things he does and haves in exchange for the dirt bike, right?
-==-=-==-
He looks at our finances with us in Quicken, and then gets all upset
because it looks to
him like we have a lot in savings. We explain that we want 6 mos of
living
expenses and need to replenish the money we just spent on a car and
property
taxes and etc.
-==-=--=-=
You *choose* to have six months of living expenses. You've made that
*choice*. It's an honorable *choice*. Many people don't prepare that
far ahead, so that's a great goal. But it's a *choice* you and your
husband have made.
-=-=-=-=-=-
=0
A
So they money he sees in the accounts is not available for
spending. He says we are mean and gets all upset.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Unless there's something really important, right?
What things would be considered important enough to dig into your
savings?
-=-=-=-=-
Over the last 2 months he
has continues to look for something with a motor for his entertainment.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Could you PLEASE drop the "for his entertainment" part of this??? It's
demeaning to him and his wants/passions.
This computer you're writing on could be considered "for your
entertainment" too. So could that new book you just bought. "For your
entertainment" is a perfectly good *reason* to buy things. Really.
"Over the last two months, he has continued to look for something with
a motor" is a fine statement all by itself. Adding the "for his
entertainment" trivializes it.
-=-=-=-=-=-
He is now stomping and yelling at me when he says things like ³lets buy
this
$15,000 boat² and I say that is unreasonable.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Why? Because no one likes boating? Because you live in Kansas? Because
that's a year's mortgage? What's the reason you're giving him?
And why is he asking? Does he really want a boat? Or is it to get your
goat?
-=-=-=-=-
I am getting tired of his reactions and requests.
-=-=-=
Maybe it IS to get your goat.
Can you imagine how tired he's getting of your reactions and excuses?
-=-==-=-=-
We have talked about his needs such as he knows what
they are (fun).
-=-=-=-
So...have you all *agreed* that he has a *need* for FUN? And that his
need for fun not quite as important as your need for six months of
living expenses.
Keep in mind that six months of "safe" living shouldn't include no fun.
Seriously. What's a "paid for life" if you can't have fun? Wouldn't
five months with a "cushion" AND a whole lot of fun be better than six
months of NO fun at all?
-=-=-=-=-=-
I think I need help
seeing a better way of handling this situation. Dh thinks I have been
stringing ds along because dh does not want to purchase any of these
items.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Let's talk about that a sec:
WHAT?
Would the mindset be different if the child wanted an expensive
microscope or telescope? (I'm trying to think of "educational" or more
"grown up" items---something less *fun*.)
Sooo...wait him out so that he'll quit wanting it? What kind of example
are you modeling? Not taking others' wants/needs seriously? But your
son needs to take *your* need to have a six month cushion seriously?
Let me know how that works out! <g>
-=-=-=-
Oh, and ds has yet to save even $1 for this vehicle which he says is
really
important. Any ideas?
0A
-=-=-=-
If you knew there was $5000 in your mattress, would you be trying
really hard to earn $50? <g>
You know, it may not about actually *getting* the dirt bike. Your
immediate brakes to his thought process may have taken him by surprise.
Made him feel less important to you than the mortgage. *IS* he less
important to you?
Go to dirt bike events. Get to know dirt-bikers. Show up weekend after
weekend. Become a part of the "gang."
Subscribe to dirt bike magazines, buy shirts with dirt bikes on them,
find dirt bike videos to watch on Youtube.
Fill his world with all the dirt bikes you can without actually buying
one right now. But agree to put aside so much $$ each week/month for a
used bike. Work WITH him to help him meet his passion. Maybe suggest
that the money you normally spend on movies or ice cream or Starbucks
could be put aside for the bike. If *everyone* of you sacrificed just a
little, maybe it *will* become affordable. Let him see you working WITH
him rather than shutting him down.
We ALL love to help others in our sport---especially newbies. After the
second or third event, I'd bet someone would offer him a ride. After
the eighth or tenth, someone may say, "You know, I have pretty old dirt
bike in the garage. It needs some work, but if you're willing to help
me fix that carburetor...."
My suggestion is to quit shutting him down. NOW.
0A
I'm NOT saying that you have to go right out and spend $3000 on a dirt
bike. *We* couldn't do that. (Not after the $7000 we just spent to send
our son to the Yukon for four weeks!) But it's important to take their
wants and needs seriously. As seriously as we want them to take OUR
wants and needs.
PLEASE stop looking at it as "just entertainment"---it's NOT: it's
physics and chemistry and algebra and geometry and finances and history
and, and, and---and all that wrapped up in a really cool dirt bike.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
IT may not be about
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jul 19, 2008, at 6:07 AM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
allergic to cats - he got scratched just a teensy bit by one once and
I was shocked to see a baseball size lump develop at the scratched
spot in about 30 seconds.
So, when Roxana wanted a cat more than anything else in the world, we
focused on cats in every possible way other than getting one to live
in our house with us. We spent weekends at cat shows. We subscribed to
Cat Fancy magazine. And on and on and on. We didn't get a cat - it
would have been too unfair to my husband and Roxana understood that
even though it disappointed her. Interestingly, she remembers those
years of loving everything to do with cats as having been very very
pleasurable. We reminisce sometimes about what we saw at the cat shows
- how much fun we had. I'm sure she still wishes she could have had a
cat of her own, but she doesn't have a head filled with memories of
repeated disappointments - instead she has a head filled with memories
of pursuing her passionate interest with great enthusiasm and joy.
-pam
> Go to dirt bike events. Get to know dirt-bikers. Show up weekend afterWe DID this - with cats, not dirt bikes. My husband is extremely
> weekend. Become a part of the "gang."
>
> Subscribe to dirt bike magazines, buy shirts with dirt bikes on them,
> find dirt bike videos to watch on Youtube.
>
> Fill his world with all the dirt bikes you can without actually buying
> one right now.
allergic to cats - he got scratched just a teensy bit by one once and
I was shocked to see a baseball size lump develop at the scratched
spot in about 30 seconds.
So, when Roxana wanted a cat more than anything else in the world, we
focused on cats in every possible way other than getting one to live
in our house with us. We spent weekends at cat shows. We subscribed to
Cat Fancy magazine. And on and on and on. We didn't get a cat - it
would have been too unfair to my husband and Roxana understood that
even though it disappointed her. Interestingly, she remembers those
years of loving everything to do with cats as having been very very
pleasurable. We reminisce sometimes about what we saw at the cat shows
- how much fun we had. I'm sure she still wishes she could have had a
cat of her own, but she doesn't have a head filled with memories of
repeated disappointments - instead she has a head filled with memories
of pursuing her passionate interest with great enthusiasm and joy.
-pam
k
Put that way, it seems a small thing to at least entertain a child's
interests, not a huge enormous difficult decision. I wanted to play the
violin when I was around 10, and the reason it didn't happen is because
since I was already taking piano lessons (which wasn't my pick) and didn't
appear interested ... why pursue violin?
~Katherine
interests, not a huge enormous difficult decision. I wanted to play the
violin when I was around 10, and the reason it didn't happen is because
since I was already taking piano lessons (which wasn't my pick) and didn't
appear interested ... why pursue violin?
~Katherine
On 7/19/08, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2008, at 6:07 AM, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo%40aol.com>wrote:
>
> > Go to dirt bike events. Get to know dirt-bikers. Show up weekend after
> > weekend. Become a part of the "gang."
> >
> > Subscribe to dirt bike magazines, buy shirts with dirt bikes on them,
> > find dirt bike videos to watch on Youtube.
> >
> > Fill his world with all the dirt bikes you can without actually buying
> > one right now.
>
> We DID this - with cats, not dirt bikes. My husband is extremely
> allergic to cats - he got scratched just a teensy bit by one once and
> I was shocked to see a baseball size lump develop at the scratched
> spot in about 30 seconds.
>
> So, when Roxana wanted a cat more than anything else in the world, we
> focused on cats in every possible way other than getting one to live
> in our house with us. We spent weekends at cat shows. We subscribed to
> Cat Fancy magazine. And on and on and on. We didn't get a cat - it
> would have been too unfair to my husband and Roxana understood that
> even though it disappointed her. Interestingly, she remembers those
> years of loving everything to do with cats as having been very very
> pleasurable. We reminisce sometimes about what we saw at the cat shows
> - how much fun we had. I'm sure she still wishes she could have had a
> cat of her own, but she doesn't have a head filled with memories of
> repeated disappointments - instead she has a head filled with memories
> of pursuing her passionate interest with great enthusiasm and joy.
>
> -pam
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Zoa Conner
I hear your suggestions (and am very glad for them) and would love to be
able to followup on them. Ds seems a tad unwilling or uninterested in them
though. Just this morning he asked if we could have a talk about boats. I
said yes, would he like us to head down the street to our neighbor who has a
boat and ask to go out with him next time. He said no. I asked if he would
like to find someplace to go white water rafting (which he saw on tv
yesterday) he said no. He wanted to talk about the cost of buying a boat and
how long it would take us before we could get one. It seems his focus is on
planning/purchasing/owning one... So we will talk and find out about costs
of different boats and gas and whatnot associated with boats (when he is
ready he is playing on the xbox now). Maybe his interest is in the money
side of it and not in the boats/bikes/etc themselves. He raced his road
bicycle this morning and really enjoyed that and hanging out with the older
riders.
Still not sure what direction to head with him ...
Zoa
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
able to followup on them. Ds seems a tad unwilling or uninterested in them
though. Just this morning he asked if we could have a talk about boats. I
said yes, would he like us to head down the street to our neighbor who has a
boat and ask to go out with him next time. He said no. I asked if he would
like to find someplace to go white water rafting (which he saw on tv
yesterday) he said no. He wanted to talk about the cost of buying a boat and
how long it would take us before we could get one. It seems his focus is on
planning/purchasing/owning one... So we will talk and find out about costs
of different boats and gas and whatnot associated with boats (when he is
ready he is playing on the xbox now). Maybe his interest is in the money
side of it and not in the boats/bikes/etc themselves. He raced his road
bicycle this morning and really enjoyed that and hanging out with the older
riders.
Still not sure what direction to head with him ...
Zoa
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Zoa Conner <zoaconner@...>
wrote:
is what you modelled to him. On some level, he may be reading that
as a value you have - and kids *do* look to their parents for
values. The downside is that we, parents, give terribly mixed
messages about those values. So when you jumped to cost analysis as
a way of explaining something to him, he heard: "money is very
important, think about the money". If checking on the money side of
things is something you do regularly, that reinforces the "message".
Which might not have been the message you were hoping to convey, at
all.
Remember the old saying "do as I say, not as I do"? Its one *I* like
to keep in mind. Our actions communicate a whole lot to our kids
unintentionally, so its important to look at what we're doing and
try to see ourselves from the outside - from the Kid side of things.
Someone mentioned talking about money in terms of comfort and
security - that's a good idea for clarifying some of your internal
processes to your ds. It might also be helpful to verbalize some of
your everyday decision making more so that your ds can see what some
of that looks like. Even simple things like "oh, this soup is more
nutritious than the generic even though it cost more" shows him
something about the ways adults think and make decisions. Its
possible that part of what he's doing, flinging all these big "can I
haves" at you is trying to figure out exactly that - in the same way
a younger child will use a new word almost at random to try to
figure out what it means (Mo's favorite strategy).
---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
wrote:
>He wanted to talk about the cost of buying a boat andfocus is on
> how long it would take us before we could get one. It seems his
> planning/purchasing/owning one... So we will talk and find outabout costs
> of different boats and gas and whatnot associated with boats (whenhe is
> ready ? he is playing on the xbox now). Maybe his interest is inthe money
> side of it and not in the boats/bikes/etc themselves.It occurred to me, reading this, that interest in "the money side"
is what you modelled to him. On some level, he may be reading that
as a value you have - and kids *do* look to their parents for
values. The downside is that we, parents, give terribly mixed
messages about those values. So when you jumped to cost analysis as
a way of explaining something to him, he heard: "money is very
important, think about the money". If checking on the money side of
things is something you do regularly, that reinforces the "message".
Which might not have been the message you were hoping to convey, at
all.
Remember the old saying "do as I say, not as I do"? Its one *I* like
to keep in mind. Our actions communicate a whole lot to our kids
unintentionally, so its important to look at what we're doing and
try to see ourselves from the outside - from the Kid side of things.
Someone mentioned talking about money in terms of comfort and
security - that's a good idea for clarifying some of your internal
processes to your ds. It might also be helpful to verbalize some of
your everyday decision making more so that your ds can see what some
of that looks like. Even simple things like "oh, this soup is more
nutritious than the generic even though it cost more" shows him
something about the ways adults think and make decisions. Its
possible that part of what he's doing, flinging all these big "can I
haves" at you is trying to figure out exactly that - in the same way
a younger child will use a new word almost at random to try to
figure out what it means (Mo's favorite strategy).
---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
Shannon
Rich Dad Poor Dad has a kids game about financing
it might help explain the
concepts of saving and spending money on assets instead of debits.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Zoa Conner
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:42 PM
To: unschoolingbasics
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Widening world, money, and 9 year old
Something interesting and frustrating has been going on for the last 2
months with my ds9. It started out with him riding a friend¹s electric
scooter. He then decided he wanted one. He started browsing online and
within a week had changed his mind from an electric scooter ($200) to an
electric riding toy to an electric dirt bike to a gas dirt bike ($2800). We
have told him that we do not have that quantity of money available for his
entertainment. We talk about gas usage and cost, clean air, what he might
have to choose not to do/have in order to free up those funds. He looks at
our finances with us in Quicken, and then gets all upset because it looks to
him like we have a lot in savings. We explain that we want 6 mos of living
expenses and need to replenish the money we just spent on a car and property
taxes and etc. So they money he sees in the accounts is not available for
spending. He says we are mean and gets all upset. Over the last 2 months he
has continues to look for something with a motor for his entertainment. He
is now stomping and yelling at me when he says things like ³lets buy this
$15,000 boat² and I say that is unreasonable. I am getting tired of his
reactions and requests. We have talked about his needs such as he knows what
they are (fun). He has experience handling money and saved $70 on his own
for his racing bike last year (a $700 purchase). I have helped him make a
list of desirable qualities of this vehicle (goes fast), we have talked
about where he could ride it (basically on the driveway for a dirt bike
without purchasing a hitch, trailer, and paying fees for a track), I have
taken him window shopping to sit on the vehicles (they don¹t allow test
drives). I asked a friend with a motorcycle to give ds a ride, and ds said
he would think about it (not gotten back to me yet). I think I need help
seeing a better way of handling this situation. Dh thinks I have been
stringing ds along because dh does not want to purchase any of these items.
Oh, and ds has yet to save even $1 for this vehicle which he says is really
important. Any ideas?
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@comcast. <mailto:zoaconner%40comcast.net> net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
concepts of saving and spending money on assets instead of debits.
Shannon
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Zoa Conner
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:42 PM
To: unschoolingbasics
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Widening world, money, and 9 year old
Something interesting and frustrating has been going on for the last 2
months with my ds9. It started out with him riding a friend¹s electric
scooter. He then decided he wanted one. He started browsing online and
within a week had changed his mind from an electric scooter ($200) to an
electric riding toy to an electric dirt bike to a gas dirt bike ($2800). We
have told him that we do not have that quantity of money available for his
entertainment. We talk about gas usage and cost, clean air, what he might
have to choose not to do/have in order to free up those funds. He looks at
our finances with us in Quicken, and then gets all upset because it looks to
him like we have a lot in savings. We explain that we want 6 mos of living
expenses and need to replenish the money we just spent on a car and property
taxes and etc. So they money he sees in the accounts is not available for
spending. He says we are mean and gets all upset. Over the last 2 months he
has continues to look for something with a motor for his entertainment. He
is now stomping and yelling at me when he says things like ³lets buy this
$15,000 boat² and I say that is unreasonable. I am getting tired of his
reactions and requests. We have talked about his needs such as he knows what
they are (fun). He has experience handling money and saved $70 on his own
for his racing bike last year (a $700 purchase). I have helped him make a
list of desirable qualities of this vehicle (goes fast), we have talked
about where he could ride it (basically on the driveway for a dirt bike
without purchasing a hitch, trailer, and paying fees for a track), I have
taken him window shopping to sit on the vehicles (they don¹t allow test
drives). I asked a friend with a motorcycle to give ds a ride, and ds said
he would think about it (not gotten back to me yet). I think I need help
seeing a better way of handling this situation. Dh thinks I have been
stringing ds along because dh does not want to purchase any of these items.
Oh, and ds has yet to save even $1 for this vehicle which he says is really
important. Any ideas?
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@comcast. <mailto:zoaconner%40comcast.net> net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
balickgoodmanfamily
Zoa,
One of the amazing parts of unschooling for me has been the ability to
support our children's interests. Like you, our family likes to have
a savings, and we also really work hard to help the kids get what they
need. In my case, I'm learning (and continuing to learn) that the
more I listen to what my kids want, the better I'm able to help them
get it.
From your posts, it sounds like you are wanting to know which
direction to head. My suggestion is not to worry so much about the
destination, but rather listen to what your son wants. Why he wants
it. And then brainstorm how to help him. If your son wants a boat,
what are the possibilities? For example, can he lease one for a month
to try it out? How can he/you cover expenses? etc.
With unschooling, anything is possible.
Best, Lyssa
One of the amazing parts of unschooling for me has been the ability to
support our children's interests. Like you, our family likes to have
a savings, and we also really work hard to help the kids get what they
need. In my case, I'm learning (and continuing to learn) that the
more I listen to what my kids want, the better I'm able to help them
get it.
From your posts, it sounds like you are wanting to know which
direction to head. My suggestion is not to worry so much about the
destination, but rather listen to what your son wants. Why he wants
it. And then brainstorm how to help him. If your son wants a boat,
what are the possibilities? For example, can he lease one for a month
to try it out? How can he/you cover expenses? etc.
With unschooling, anything is possible.
Best, Lyssa