what is "normal"?
Faith Void
I am not even sure how to word this. I keep hearing things like "Oh that's
normal", "My kid did that." etc. I don't really know irl too many people
with children that I can relate to. I really wanted to find a decent website
that offers some description of "normal behavior" for different ages. I know
that my kids are my kids and not normal or average but sometimes I fear that
I might have expectations that exceed or not meet what is developmental for
them. This still doesn't sound right. I do listen to my own kids and let
them be the guide. I try to keep a partnering perspective and give them what
they need. I really feel like I need help with my 11 y/o. I was not parented
well (to say the least). I found that AP stuff helps until they are 6-7ish
but after that I have found mainstream ideas to become more and more kids vs
adults. (unsure how else to word that). I want to allow my dd11 the space to
be herself but lately the messages I am getting from her are so mixed I am
super confused and am having a difficult time meeting her needs effectively.
She has seemed happy but tells me (sometimes) that she has been unhappy for
years (she is a like dramatical) and others that I am the best mama in the
world, etc. Sometimes she hides things from me and other times she tells me
and is very forth coming. By 11 I was emotional and almost phyisically on my
own. I don't really have a gauge of what is developmental for this age.
Anyway, I really want to be there for her and help her navigate the time. I
hear that pueberty is very difficult and that hating your parents is normal.
I don't thnk she hates me but she tries to sometimes. She will sometimes
relate to me as thought I am her autority and that I control her (I don't).
And other times everything is "normal" (for us, a patnership). One day she
told me that I give her to many decsions. Then another she told me I never
"let " her do anything. These seem arbitraty to me as nothing in particular
was going on diffiernt.
anyway, this is my inarticualte way of asking for help...again. I am so
floundering for the past year.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
normal", "My kid did that." etc. I don't really know irl too many people
with children that I can relate to. I really wanted to find a decent website
that offers some description of "normal behavior" for different ages. I know
that my kids are my kids and not normal or average but sometimes I fear that
I might have expectations that exceed or not meet what is developmental for
them. This still doesn't sound right. I do listen to my own kids and let
them be the guide. I try to keep a partnering perspective and give them what
they need. I really feel like I need help with my 11 y/o. I was not parented
well (to say the least). I found that AP stuff helps until they are 6-7ish
but after that I have found mainstream ideas to become more and more kids vs
adults. (unsure how else to word that). I want to allow my dd11 the space to
be herself but lately the messages I am getting from her are so mixed I am
super confused and am having a difficult time meeting her needs effectively.
She has seemed happy but tells me (sometimes) that she has been unhappy for
years (she is a like dramatical) and others that I am the best mama in the
world, etc. Sometimes she hides things from me and other times she tells me
and is very forth coming. By 11 I was emotional and almost phyisically on my
own. I don't really have a gauge of what is developmental for this age.
Anyway, I really want to be there for her and help her navigate the time. I
hear that pueberty is very difficult and that hating your parents is normal.
I don't thnk she hates me but she tries to sometimes. She will sometimes
relate to me as thought I am her autority and that I control her (I don't).
And other times everything is "normal" (for us, a patnership). One day she
told me that I give her to many decsions. Then another she told me I never
"let " her do anything. These seem arbitraty to me as nothing in particular
was going on diffiernt.
anyway, this is my inarticualte way of asking for help...again. I am so
floundering for the past year.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>Puberty and anything hormonal can put a person through the gamut
> She has seemed happy but tells me (sometimes) that she has been unhappy for
> years (she is a like dramatical) and others that I am the best mama in the
> world, etc.
>
emotionally. Ups and downs seem to appear out of nowhere. I remember I
napped and napped lots of days after getting home from being at school all
day.
Sometimes she hides things from me and other times she tells me and is very
> forth coming.This might also be emotional... fight/flight stuff switching to relaxing and
>
back again. Wait until more relaxed moments to ask questions, if that's
what you're doing.
She will sometimes relate to me as thought I am her autority and that I
> control her (I don't). And other times everything is "normal" (for us, aSomething *is* going on different. Puberty is about venturing into adult
> patnership). One day she told me that I give her to many decsions. Then
> another she told me I never "let " her do anything. These seem arbitraty to
> me as nothing in particular was going on diffiernt.
>
territory. So far she hasn't been legally responsible for anything because
she's hasn't reached majority yet, but she's thinking about it more the
closer she gets... maybe not consciously maybe sort of intuitively. It's
gradually coming closer to the forefront. Was this a scary transition for
you (sounds like it was pretty sudden) and is some of the fear about this
fleshing out into your relationship with your daughter? Sometimes it's easy
to move from empathy (understanding how a person actually feels in a
situation) to projection (seeing how *you* might feel in a situation and
crediting another with those same feelings).
I remember being afraid of adulthood because my parents seemed to think of
their responsibilities as burdensome and not usually much fun or even very
low key or easygoing. They worried a lot. I thought adulthood would just
mean becoming a worrier like my parents and I didn't want that. In that
sense, I continue to idolize and celebrate childhood, which has had some
drawbacks for me.
I don't know how much your daughter wants a partnership and to what degree
she might prefer to sometimes depend on others. There's a seesaw of
independence/dependence all along through childhood. Being partners might
be more than she wants.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon Lynn
Can I ask what approach you use when she acts out?
Now I do only have boys and they are alot older but I also grew up in
a houshold full of sisters.
Yes some of this is normal as far as her being at an age where she is
discovering her own independence and entering puberty.
I completely understand how you feel about relating to her at this
age. I remember being able to take LONG walks with all of my sons and
we would talk for hours about everything and then all of a sudden
they stopped relating to me this way. I was so hurt and confused.
Someone told me that as your children grows so does the way we
communicate with them. Such as when they are infants we coo at them,
toddles we redirect them and teach, preteens step out more on their
own and we become their safety net and they know that the net is
their. They accept this and want to know that we are their for them
but our input gets less and less.Teens do it all on their own and try
to let go of the safety net and we as parents keep putting it back up
for protection. This is where alot of conflict comes in.
My husband and I have been through this. Our oldest son just got
married and made us grandparents. But we are now dealing with twins
age 14. After going through this with our oldest and him being our
guinee pig, we seem to be doing ALOT better with the twins.
We did find that the way we reacted to issues that our children went
through had a HUGE effect on how they opened up to us the next time
another issue came up.
For example when our oldest decided that he was curious about smoking
because his uncle did it, my husband and I flew off the handle! We
yelled, lectured, showed pictures of lung cancer, grounded him, and
turned it into a week long issue. After that he basically tried to
hid everything he was doing and this SCARED US TO DEATH!
There is just way to much out there in the world that young adults
are open to expeiriment with and if they cant come to us as parents
to talk with us about it because they are afraid of our reaction,
then they are in danger of jumping without a net.
I hope this helps. And remember that your little girl is growing up
and this is a confusing time so one day she may be happy and the next
she may be sad. Its ok.
Shalyn
Now I do only have boys and they are alot older but I also grew up in
a houshold full of sisters.
Yes some of this is normal as far as her being at an age where she is
discovering her own independence and entering puberty.
I completely understand how you feel about relating to her at this
age. I remember being able to take LONG walks with all of my sons and
we would talk for hours about everything and then all of a sudden
they stopped relating to me this way. I was so hurt and confused.
Someone told me that as your children grows so does the way we
communicate with them. Such as when they are infants we coo at them,
toddles we redirect them and teach, preteens step out more on their
own and we become their safety net and they know that the net is
their. They accept this and want to know that we are their for them
but our input gets less and less.Teens do it all on their own and try
to let go of the safety net and we as parents keep putting it back up
for protection. This is where alot of conflict comes in.
My husband and I have been through this. Our oldest son just got
married and made us grandparents. But we are now dealing with twins
age 14. After going through this with our oldest and him being our
guinee pig, we seem to be doing ALOT better with the twins.
We did find that the way we reacted to issues that our children went
through had a HUGE effect on how they opened up to us the next time
another issue came up.
For example when our oldest decided that he was curious about smoking
because his uncle did it, my husband and I flew off the handle! We
yelled, lectured, showed pictures of lung cancer, grounded him, and
turned it into a week long issue. After that he basically tried to
hid everything he was doing and this SCARED US TO DEATH!
There is just way to much out there in the world that young adults
are open to expeiriment with and if they cant come to us as parents
to talk with us about it because they are afraid of our reaction,
then they are in danger of jumping without a net.
I hope this helps. And remember that your little girl is growing up
and this is a confusing time so one day she may be happy and the next
she may be sad. Its ok.
Shalyn
Pamela Sorooshian
My parents "sat around" a lot. I was a very athletic child - a tomboy.
I didn't want to grow up and turn into a slug and I remember promising
myself I would NEVER become like them and I would always run
everywhere and "do" things.
-pam
I didn't want to grow up and turn into a slug and I remember promising
myself I would NEVER become like them and I would always run
everywhere and "do" things.
-pam
On Jul 13, 2008, at 9:26 AM, k wrote:
> I remember being afraid of adulthood because my parents seemed to
> think of
> their responsibilities as burdensome and not usually much fun or
> even very
> low key or easygoing. They worried a lot. I thought adulthood
> would just
> mean becoming a worrier like my parents and I didn't want that. In
> that
> sense, I continue to idolize and celebrate childhood, which has had
> some
> drawbacks for me.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jul 13, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Faith Void wrote:
went to a couple of their workshops. It could be written more clearly,
less "jargon" would be nice - they felt the need to sort of make up
their own vocabulary, to express what they wanted to say. But, really,
it did give me a lot of stuff to consider and I took something from it
that was useful.
I'm not one to swallow someone else's whole philosophy or program, but
I do like to read a lot and some parts will "stick" - I often don't
really remember where I first got the ideas. So, I'm NOT recommending
their whole big program or belief system or whatever they call it.
But, I learned from them, took some valuable stuff, found it useful.
<http://www.encompassfamilies.org/nlr/central_tenets_of_nlr.html>
The part I'm talking about is the ages and stages section that starts
with this:
***
There are four primary life stages in childhood.
The first starts at conception and continues to approximately 81⁄2
years old. We coined the term BodyBeing.
The second is from 81⁄2 to 121⁄2 years old. We call this stage
FeelingBeing.
The third stage goes from the ages of 121⁄2 to 171⁄2. This stage is
called IdealBeing.
The last stage starts around 171⁄2 or so and ends around 23 years of
age. We call this stage, ReasonableBeing.
***
The major stages are each broken down into three phases. They give a
simple version on that page- probably more than enough for what you
want.
One of the things I liked about their ideas is that they talk about
how when we provide our children with the "nourishments" that they
need at each stage, we also grow in health, improving own own well
being. I have found that to be very very true.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I really wanted to find a decent websiteNatural Learning Rhythms is one that I read over a number of times and
> that offers some description of "normal behavior" for different ages.
went to a couple of their workshops. It could be written more clearly,
less "jargon" would be nice - they felt the need to sort of make up
their own vocabulary, to express what they wanted to say. But, really,
it did give me a lot of stuff to consider and I took something from it
that was useful.
I'm not one to swallow someone else's whole philosophy or program, but
I do like to read a lot and some parts will "stick" - I often don't
really remember where I first got the ideas. So, I'm NOT recommending
their whole big program or belief system or whatever they call it.
But, I learned from them, took some valuable stuff, found it useful.
<http://www.encompassfamilies.org/nlr/central_tenets_of_nlr.html>
The part I'm talking about is the ages and stages section that starts
with this:
***
There are four primary life stages in childhood.
The first starts at conception and continues to approximately 81⁄2
years old. We coined the term BodyBeing.
The second is from 81⁄2 to 121⁄2 years old. We call this stage
FeelingBeing.
The third stage goes from the ages of 121⁄2 to 171⁄2. This stage is
called IdealBeing.
The last stage starts around 171⁄2 or so and ends around 23 years of
age. We call this stage, ReasonableBeing.
***
The major stages are each broken down into three phases. They give a
simple version on that page- probably more than enough for what you
want.
One of the things I liked about their ideas is that they talk about
how when we provide our children with the "nourishments" that they
need at each stage, we also grow in health, improving own own well
being. I have found that to be very very true.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
This is a little more work than a single website, but you might
consider reading the blogs of unschoolers with kids the same age and
a little older than yours - that's a good way to get the unschooling
version of "normal" without the usual parents-vs-kids understory.
Here's a page with a whole list of unschooling blogs for you to
explore:
http://organiclearning.org/resources.html
oh, and from the link section, here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/links/unschoolers_blo
gs_001085929218/
rather than "hiding". Its normal (or natural may be a better way of
putting it) for kids to want more privacy as they get older, about
their bodies *and* minds. Ray is also very forthcoming about some
things, and terribly private about others. We just learned he has a
new girlfriend - he and George ran into gf and her mom at a local
music festival and the cat was out of the bag. He hadn't
been "hiding" the information, it was just too private to share, yet
(a little under a month since they met).
changing a lot right now. It makes me think of how younger children
can go through a stage of wanting exactly what they want Right Now
Darnit! and being unhappy when they can't jump from the trampoline
to the moon. So maybe sometimes she's feeling a need for more
support or guidance or security and is expressing that feeling, and
other times she's feeling stagnant and ready for something New! and
exciting and expressing that feeling. Try to respond to her
feelings, rather just than reacting to whatever words or behavior
she might be using to express them.
---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>I really wanted to find a decent websiteages.
> that offers some description of "normal behavior" for different
This is a little more work than a single website, but you might
consider reading the blogs of unschoolers with kids the same age and
a little older than yours - that's a good way to get the unschooling
version of "normal" without the usual parents-vs-kids understory.
Here's a page with a whole list of unschooling blogs for you to
explore:
http://organiclearning.org/resources.html
oh, and from the link section, here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/links/unschoolers_blo
gs_001085929218/
> Sometimes she hides things from me and other times she tells meI find it helpful with Ray to think in terms of "wanting privacy"
> and is very forth coming.
rather than "hiding". Its normal (or natural may be a better way of
putting it) for kids to want more privacy as they get older, about
their bodies *and* minds. Ray is also very forthcoming about some
things, and terribly private about others. We just learned he has a
new girlfriend - he and George ran into gf and her mom at a local
music festival and the cat was out of the bag. He hadn't
been "hiding" the information, it was just too private to share, yet
(a little under a month since they met).
> She will sometimes(I don't).
> relate to me as thought I am her autority and that I control her
> And other times everything is "normal" (for us, a patnership). Oneday she
> told me that I give her to many decsions. Then another she told meI never
> "let " her do anything.It sounds like her needs and her feelings about her needs are
changing a lot right now. It makes me think of how younger children
can go through a stage of wanting exactly what they want Right Now
Darnit! and being unhappy when they can't jump from the trampoline
to the moon. So maybe sometimes she's feeling a need for more
support or guidance or security and is expressing that feeling, and
other times she's feeling stagnant and ready for something New! and
exciting and expressing that feeling. Try to respond to her
feelings, rather just than reacting to whatever words or behavior
she might be using to express them.
---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
Faith Void
Thanks for all that. The first is an excellent suggestion. And I am going,
"now why didn't I think of that!". The rest I needed to hear.
Faith
"now why didn't I think of that!". The rest I needed to hear.
Faith
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Meredith <meredith@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Faith Void"
> <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
> >I really wanted to find a decent website
> > that offers some description of "normal behavior" for different
> ages.
>
> This is a little more work than a single website, but you might
> consider reading the blogs of unschoolers with kids the same age and
> a little older than yours - that's a good way to get the unschooling
> version of "normal" without the usual parents-vs-kids understory.
> Here's a page with a whole list of unschooling blogs for you to
> explore:
>
> http://organiclearning.org/resources.html
>
> oh, and from the link section, here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/links/unschoolers_blo
> gs_001085929218/
>
> > Sometimes she hides things from me and other times she tells me
> > and is very forth coming.
>
> I find it helpful with Ray to think in terms of "wanting privacy"
> rather than "hiding". Its normal (or natural may be a better way of
> putting it) for kids to want more privacy as they get older, about
> their bodies *and* minds. Ray is also very forthcoming about some
> things, and terribly private about others. We just learned he has a
> new girlfriend - he and George ran into gf and her mom at a local
> music festival and the cat was out of the bag. He hadn't
> been "hiding" the information, it was just too private to share, yet
> (a little under a month since they met).
>
> > She will sometimes
> > relate to me as thought I am her autority and that I control her
> (I don't).
> > And other times everything is "normal" (for us, a patnership). One
> day she
> > told me that I give her to many decsions. Then another she told me
> I never
> > "let " her do anything.
>
> It sounds like her needs and her feelings about her needs are
> changing a lot right now. It makes me think of how younger children
> can go through a stage of wanting exactly what they want Right Now
> Darnit! and being unhappy when they can't jump from the trampoline
> to the moon. So maybe sometimes she's feeling a need for more
> support or guidance or security and is expressing that feeling, and
> other times she's feeling stagnant and ready for something New! and
> exciting and expressing that feeling. Try to respond to her
> feelings, rather just than reacting to whatever words or behavior
> she might be using to express them.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
>
>
>
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I wasn't looking for more on this thread but while I was doing a search for
something else I ran across the following and thought "hey!" here's
something about what we were just talking about... teens and puberty and the
mood swings and all that. Looks like there are some other thoughts there we
didn't look into on this thread which might also be helpful.
http://sandradodd.com/teen/angst
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
something else I ran across the following and thought "hey!" here's
something about what we were just talking about... teens and puberty and the
mood swings and all that. Looks like there are some other thoughts there we
didn't look into on this thread which might also be helpful.
http://sandradodd.com/teen/angst
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
that's perfect. I book marked it for future reference.
Thanks
Faith
Thanks
Faith
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:07 AM, k <katherand@...> wrote:
> I wasn't looking for more on this thread but while I was doing a search
> for
> something else I ran across the following and thought "hey!" here's
> something about what we were just talking about... teens and puberty and
> the
> mood swings and all that. Looks like there are some other thoughts there we
> didn't look into on this thread which might also be helpful.
>
> http://sandradodd.com/teen/angst
>
> ~Katherine
> that was
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]