Not eating meat WAS: TV Help me understand
Robin Krest
Hi, I am Robin, entering the unschooling style with my son, 4.5 y/o. This list has been helpful in many ways, as has the links, and the TV issue is one we are going through right now. It has been very helpful to read all these views and experiences with it.
I am now going to step into the veg thing below. I have been a vegetarian since 1993. I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices for my son. I do not and will not cook meat in my house, it is against my principles; my son and DH sometimes choose to eat meat when we are elsewhere. Why shouldn't I model my personal beliefs to my son? Why shouldn't I help him make the decision himself by explaining why I do not eat meat and do not have it in the house (and at 4.5 he can explain where meat comes from, so he has the connection between real live animal and meat on the plate) but that he is quite free to eat it elsewhere? The no meat in the house was something my husband and I decided in early 1994.
Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the situation be different? The children you mention do eat meat, just not from mom.
To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are against one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests it?
Robin
-- "swissarmy_wife" <heatherbean@...> wrote:
It also bothers me that you have children who clearly like meat, but
you will not make it for them. You shouldn't make your personal
choices, theirs. They obviously do not have free choice of what they
eat. They have to wait for the couple times week dad brings home a
chicken.
____________________________________________________________
Need cash? Click to get a cash advance.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mKetU2Ft54HXBr5DUSgneqSD9ZjNrMawrgpO0V9dbI89mw3/
I am now going to step into the veg thing below. I have been a vegetarian since 1993. I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices for my son. I do not and will not cook meat in my house, it is against my principles; my son and DH sometimes choose to eat meat when we are elsewhere. Why shouldn't I model my personal beliefs to my son? Why shouldn't I help him make the decision himself by explaining why I do not eat meat and do not have it in the house (and at 4.5 he can explain where meat comes from, so he has the connection between real live animal and meat on the plate) but that he is quite free to eat it elsewhere? The no meat in the house was something my husband and I decided in early 1994.
Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the situation be different? The children you mention do eat meat, just not from mom.
To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are against one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests it?
Robin
-- "swissarmy_wife" <heatherbean@...> wrote:
It also bothers me that you have children who clearly like meat, but
you will not make it for them. You shouldn't make your personal
choices, theirs. They obviously do not have free choice of what they
eat. They have to wait for the couple times week dad brings home a
chicken.
____________________________________________________________
Need cash? Click to get a cash advance.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mKetU2Ft54HXBr5DUSgneqSD9ZjNrMawrgpO0V9dbI89mw3/
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Krest <rlkrest@...>
I am now going to step into the veg thing below. I have been a
vegetarian since
1993. I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices for my son. I do
not and
will not cook meat in my house, it is against my principles; my son
and DH
sometimes choose to eat meat when we are elsewhere. Why shouldn't I
model my
personal beliefs to my son?
-=-=-=-
You *should*. But you shouldn't impose your beliefs ON him.
He's only 4.5. How well can he cook fried chicken if that's what he
wants? It's up to *you*, his mom, to provide that *for* him, if that's
what he wants and needs, even if it's not for *you*.
What if your mother had forced you to eat meat---or worse---*tricked*
you into eating it---because she believed that eating meat was
important in your diet. How would that have made you feel?
My older son is frequently a vegetarian (he's probably eating meat
right now because he's in the wilds of the Yukon, and it's a
survivalist's program: out in the wild, you eat what you can get!). I
make every effort to keep his meals vegie. What if I said, "You can eat
vegetarian when you're out elsewhere, but *here* we eat meat!"?
He's not you. Treat him as he would like to be treated.
-=-=-=-=-
Why shouldn't I help him make the decision himself
by explaining why I do not eat meat and do not have it in the house
(and at 4.5
he can explain where meat comes from, so he has the connection between
real live
animal and meat on the plate) but that he is quite free to eat it
elsewhere?
-=-=-=-=-=-
He's not getting to make *any* decision. You're making it *for* him! By
not fixing it---or at least having it available, like the rotisserie
chicken, or sliced meats or whatever. He gets NO say in this process.
-=-=-=-=-
The no meat in the house was something my husband and I decided in
early 1994.
-=-=-=-=-
Fine, but now you have a child who wants meat. So maybe there needs to
be a "new" decision for 2008.
-=-=-=-=-
Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the
situation be
different?
-==-==-=-
I think so, but I'm not religious. I have plenty of Jewish friends who
love a good pork chop.
-=-=-=-=-=-
The children you mention do eat meat, just not from mom.
-=-=-=-=-
Who? Did I miss certain children?
-=-=-=-=-
To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are against
one's
principles or religious beliefs if the child requests it?
-=-=-=-=-
I think so. They aren't the child's principles or beliefs, are they?
Why can't the child choose? Why are his beliefs and principles less
valid or important? Because you, the parent, have all the power?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Robin Krest <rlkrest@...>
I am now going to step into the veg thing below. I have been a
vegetarian since
1993. I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices for my son. I do
not and
will not cook meat in my house, it is against my principles; my son
and DH
sometimes choose to eat meat when we are elsewhere. Why shouldn't I
model my
personal beliefs to my son?
-=-=-=-
You *should*. But you shouldn't impose your beliefs ON him.
He's only 4.5. How well can he cook fried chicken if that's what he
wants? It's up to *you*, his mom, to provide that *for* him, if that's
what he wants and needs, even if it's not for *you*.
What if your mother had forced you to eat meat---or worse---*tricked*
you into eating it---because she believed that eating meat was
important in your diet. How would that have made you feel?
My older son is frequently a vegetarian (he's probably eating meat
right now because he's in the wilds of the Yukon, and it's a
survivalist's program: out in the wild, you eat what you can get!). I
make every effort to keep his meals vegie. What if I said, "You can eat
vegetarian when you're out elsewhere, but *here* we eat meat!"?
He's not you. Treat him as he would like to be treated.
-=-=-=-=-
Why shouldn't I help him make the decision himself
by explaining why I do not eat meat and do not have it in the house
(and at 4.5
he can explain where meat comes from, so he has the connection between
real live
animal and meat on the plate) but that he is quite free to eat it
elsewhere?
-=-=-=-=-=-
He's not getting to make *any* decision. You're making it *for* him! By
not fixing it---or at least having it available, like the rotisserie
chicken, or sliced meats or whatever. He gets NO say in this process.
-=-=-=-=-
The no meat in the house was something my husband and I decided in
early 1994.
-=-=-=-=-
Fine, but now you have a child who wants meat. So maybe there needs to
be a "new" decision for 2008.
-=-=-=-=-
Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the
situation be
different?
-==-==-=-
I think so, but I'm not religious. I have plenty of Jewish friends who
love a good pork chop.
-=-=-=-=-=-
The children you mention do eat meat, just not from mom.
-=-=-=-=-
Who? Did I miss certain children?
-=-=-=-=-
To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are against
one's
principles or religious beliefs if the child requests it?
-=-=-=-=-
I think so. They aren't the child's principles or beliefs, are they?
Why can't the child choose? Why are his beliefs and principles less
valid or important? Because you, the parent, have all the power?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
swissarmy_wife
--- In [email protected], "Robin Krest" <rlkrest@...>
wrote:
chicken nuggets or a prime rib, they should be perfectly comfortable
to eat them in their own house.
the house your coercing him into YOUR way of life. If you want him to
choose for himself, why don't you honor his choices. He lives there
too.
meat. That was 14 years ago. This actually happened with a friend a
mine. Her husband didn't mind fending for himself for the meat. No
big deal to him. But once they had children who also wanted to eat
meat, they brought it into the house. I believe the husband cooks the
meat. It works for them.
wrote:
> I am now going to step into the veg thing below. I have been aIt's not just YOUR house. It's theirs too. And if they want some
>vegetarian since 1993. I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices
>for my son. I do not and will not cook meat in my house,
chicken nuggets or a prime rib, they should be perfectly comfortable
to eat them in their own house.
>it is against my principles; my son and DH sometimes choose to eatYou can tell him why you choose not too. But, by not allowing meat in
>meat when we are elsewhere. Why shouldn't I model my personal
>beliefs to my son? Why shouldn't I help him make the decision
>himself by explaining why I do not eat meat and do not have it in the
>house (and at 4.5 he can explain where meat comes from, so he has the
>connection between real live animal and meat on the plate)
the house your coercing him into YOUR way of life. If you want him to
choose for himself, why don't you honor his choices. He lives there
too.
>but that he is quite free to eat it elsewhere? The no meat in theSeems a little controlling to me. You said your husband does eat
>house was something my husband and I decided in early 1994.
meat. That was 14 years ago. This actually happened with a friend a
mine. Her husband didn't mind fending for himself for the meat. No
big deal to him. But once they had children who also wanted to eat
meat, they brought it into the house. I believe the husband cooks the
meat. It works for them.
carenkh
I was a vegetarian for many years. I basically lived that same way
with my oldest son - he could eat meat while out with his Dad or over
at a friend's, but I didn't want it in the house. It grossed me out!
He *never* asked for meat, it just wasn't a part of his life. Until...
McDonalds! And chicken nuggets! He LOVED them. How could I keep him
from something he loved? It seemed silly to me, to place these
principles before my own son.
Then... along came youngest son. I still didn't cook meat in the
house, and no one asked for it - until Mother's Day when he was 3. We
met at my mom's; my then-husband took Evan and Seth to her house while
I ran to the grocery store. I bought a rotisserie chicken, and when
Seth ran out to greet me, he came running toward me, his arms open for
a big hug. When he got close, he stopped, sniffed loudly, looked in
the bag and said with a big grin: "Mama! Kicken! Tank you!!" I
realized... this child *needs* meat. So, 6 and a half years later,
meat's a part of my repertoire in the kitchen.
It's not up to me to determine my children's values for them. I share
information I have - and they make their choices. I support their choices.
Just last week, I cooked a *steak* for Seth, because he asked for one.
ewww. Evan was grossed out by it, even though he'll eat burgers. Seth
didn't see my "ewww" face as I got it out and cooked it - what he saw
was me, listening to him and taking his needs and wants seriously.
peace,
Caren
with my oldest son - he could eat meat while out with his Dad or over
at a friend's, but I didn't want it in the house. It grossed me out!
He *never* asked for meat, it just wasn't a part of his life. Until...
McDonalds! And chicken nuggets! He LOVED them. How could I keep him
from something he loved? It seemed silly to me, to place these
principles before my own son.
Then... along came youngest son. I still didn't cook meat in the
house, and no one asked for it - until Mother's Day when he was 3. We
met at my mom's; my then-husband took Evan and Seth to her house while
I ran to the grocery store. I bought a rotisserie chicken, and when
Seth ran out to greet me, he came running toward me, his arms open for
a big hug. When he got close, he stopped, sniffed loudly, looked in
the bag and said with a big grin: "Mama! Kicken! Tank you!!" I
realized... this child *needs* meat. So, 6 and a half years later,
meat's a part of my repertoire in the kitchen.
It's not up to me to determine my children's values for them. I share
information I have - and they make their choices. I support their choices.
Just last week, I cooked a *steak* for Seth, because he asked for one.
ewww. Evan was grossed out by it, even though he'll eat burgers. Seth
didn't see my "ewww" face as I got it out and cooked it - what he saw
was me, listening to him and taking his needs and wants seriously.
peace,
Caren
Faith Void
Both my husband and I have been vegetarian for over 20 years(me since
1986, dh since 1988), many years vegan. We didn't have meat for many
years. Until my mother introduced my dd to chicken. She loved it. I
had to stretch my comfort zone, A LOT. Neither my husband nor I still
eat meat but we have it in our house and we even have chickens for
eggs and meat. Soon I will be butchering my first chicken and doing
things I can't even imagine to "clean" them (yuck) but it isn't just
about me, it is about my kids. We came to this after not being able to
afford organic free ranged meat for her. It is important to me because
she is my child and her needs are real.
Also I don't look it things quite the same way, this is OUR house not
mine. We made the decision to move here and buy it together. Being
about to raise chickens was a large part of our house search.
I also think that not eating meat isn't a principle, compassion and
kindness extended to our animals friends are. It isn't kind to your
child to not allow him the choice of eating what his body requests. it
doesn't show him trust or compassion. I think modling that towards
your son might be more important then making his world and choices
smaller.
his autonomy{period}. Even if you use religion as an excuse it is
still disrespectful.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
1986, dh since 1988), many years vegan. We didn't have meat for many
years. Until my mother introduced my dd to chicken. She loved it. I
had to stretch my comfort zone, A LOT. Neither my husband nor I still
eat meat but we have it in our house and we even have chickens for
eggs and meat. Soon I will be butchering my first chicken and doing
things I can't even imagine to "clean" them (yuck) but it isn't just
about me, it is about my kids. We came to this after not being able to
afford organic free ranged meat for her. It is important to me because
she is my child and her needs are real.
Also I don't look it things quite the same way, this is OUR house not
mine. We made the decision to move here and buy it together. Being
about to raise chickens was a large part of our house search.
I also think that not eating meat isn't a principle, compassion and
kindness extended to our animals friends are. It isn't kind to your
child to not allow him the choice of eating what his body requests. it
doesn't show him trust or compassion. I think modling that towards
your son might be more important then making his world and choices
smaller.
>No, I think if you are making his decisions for him you are usurping
> Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the situation be
> different? The children you mention do eat meat, just not from mom.
his autonomy{period}. Even if you use religion as an excuse it is
still disrespectful.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
marji
At 18:13 6/24/2008, you wrote:
1972. Liam, born in 1994, has been a vegetarian by tradition since
he was born, but ever since he was able to understand, I have
reminded him that not eating meat is MY choice, and I would
absolutely support him in eating meat, if that's what he wanted to
do. He has tasted meat and doesn't like it, but I remind him
whenever the subject comes up that if he's interested, I will help him.
I have two carnivorous cats. They need to eat meat, and I, who chose
to invite them to live with me, make it happen for them. Why
wouldn't I do the same for my son?
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<http://joyfullyparenting.com/>JoyFully Parenting & Life Coaching
<http://gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf ~ Music for the Planet
<http://myspace.com/marjizintz>Marji's Myspace Page
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release Date: 6/24/2008 7:53 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Just last week, I cooked a *steak* for Seth, because he asked for one.Beautifully put, Caren. I have been a vegetarian by choice since
>ewww. Evan was grossed out by it, even though he'll eat burgers. Seth
>didn't see my "ewww" face as I got it out and cooked it - what he saw
>was me, listening to him and taking his needs and wants seriously.
1972. Liam, born in 1994, has been a vegetarian by tradition since
he was born, but ever since he was able to understand, I have
reminded him that not eating meat is MY choice, and I would
absolutely support him in eating meat, if that's what he wanted to
do. He has tasted meat and doesn't like it, but I remind him
whenever the subject comes up that if he's interested, I will help him.
I have two carnivorous cats. They need to eat meat, and I, who chose
to invite them to live with me, make it happen for them. Why
wouldn't I do the same for my son?
~Marji
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<http://joyfullyparenting.com/>JoyFully Parenting & Life Coaching
<http://gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf ~ Music for the Planet
<http://myspace.com/marjizintz>Marji's Myspace Page
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release Date: 6/24/2008 7:53 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Coyote
I cannot imagine doing this. I am a vegetarian. Besides that....how dare your mother give your daughter anything w/o clearing it with you? Just as you should not force your beliefs on her...she can't force hers on your child.
I would handle this differently.
"I'm uncomfortable with this, perhaps grandma can offer you chicken" I don't think this is parenting, but acquiescence.
But...heck...your mom had no right at all to do this.
Where will she stop?
What message is that giving to your daughter? How will she feel about chickens when she finds out the truth??
Janis in East Providence, RI
I would handle this differently.
"I'm uncomfortable with this, perhaps grandma can offer you chicken" I don't think this is parenting, but acquiescence.
But...heck...your mom had no right at all to do this.
Where will she stop?
What message is that giving to your daughter? How will she feel about chickens when she finds out the truth??
Janis in East Providence, RI
----- Original Message -----
From: Faith Void
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Not eating meat WAS: TV Help me understand
Both my husband and I have been vegetarian for over 20 years(me since
1986, dh since 1988), many years vegan. We didn't have meat for many
years. Until my mother introduced my dd to chicken. She loved it. I
had to stretch my comfort zone, A LOT. Neither my husband nor I still
eat meat but we have it in our house and we even have chickens for
eggs and meat. Soon I will be butchering my first chicken and doing
things I can't even imagine to "clean" them (yuck) but it isn't just
about me, it is about my kids. We came to this after not being able to
afford organic free ranged meat for her. It is important to me because
she is my child and her needs are real.
Also I don't look it things quite the same way, this is OUR house not
mine. We made the decision to move here and buy it together. Being
about to raise chickens was a large part of our house search.
I also think that not eating meat isn't a principle, compassion and
kindness extended to our animals friends are. It isn't kind to your
child to not allow him the choice of eating what his body requests. it
doesn't show him trust or compassion. I think modling that towards
your son might be more important then making his world and choices
smaller.
>
> Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the situation be
> different? The children you mention do eat meat, just not from mom.
No, I think if you are making his decisions for him you are usurping
his autonomy{period}. Even if you use religion as an excuse it is
still disrespectful.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
julie
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
Although I am not a vegetarian, I do respect that life style-I had
to, because 3 years ago my then 14 and 15 year old daughters stopped
eating meat. They were not unschooled (I do have a 4 and 2 year old
that I am unschooling) but they knew that I would respect thier
choice.
No one told them to become vegatarians, or encouraged them. They
came to that conclusion after reading about slaughter houses, and the
PETA website. They informed themselves with everything they needed
to make what I consider a thought-filled descision.
It was not, and still is not easy!!! My husband won't touch a
vegtable. So I had to make 2 dinners a night, one for them, one for
us.
Always had to make sure to have bocca burgers, and morning star food
available for them. Made sure that thier stuffing was made with
vegtable stock, not chicken stock....I had to learn more than I ever
wanted to about the vegatarian lifestyle. (well they taught me most
of it)..and I kept hoping, or thinking it was a fad or a phase that
would pass. Well, it hasn't, and even though they crave a good pork
chop or steak every now and again, I don't think they would ever go
back.
I would never serve them meat and expect them to eat it because it is
my house, or because I think that they should eat it. I think that
they respect me more because I allowed them this choice, AND
supported it. I also think it is great for my little ones, one of
which doesn't prefer meat, and one that does.
Maybe looking at things from that point of view will help you
understand. If you were made to eat meat in someone else's house, if
someone else did not agree with you, or would not prepare something
different for you...it might make you question thier respect for you.
Julie
>do
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Krest <rlkrest@...>
>
> I am now going to step into the veg thing below. I have been a
> vegetarian since
> 1993. I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices for my son. I
> not andson
> will not cook meat in my house, it is against my principles; my
> and DHI
> sometimes choose to eat meat when we are elsewhere. Why shouldn't
> model myRobin
> personal beliefs to my son?
>
> -=-=-=-
>
Although I am not a vegetarian, I do respect that life style-I had
to, because 3 years ago my then 14 and 15 year old daughters stopped
eating meat. They were not unschooled (I do have a 4 and 2 year old
that I am unschooling) but they knew that I would respect thier
choice.
No one told them to become vegatarians, or encouraged them. They
came to that conclusion after reading about slaughter houses, and the
PETA website. They informed themselves with everything they needed
to make what I consider a thought-filled descision.
It was not, and still is not easy!!! My husband won't touch a
vegtable. So I had to make 2 dinners a night, one for them, one for
us.
Always had to make sure to have bocca burgers, and morning star food
available for them. Made sure that thier stuffing was made with
vegtable stock, not chicken stock....I had to learn more than I ever
wanted to about the vegatarian lifestyle. (well they taught me most
of it)..and I kept hoping, or thinking it was a fad or a phase that
would pass. Well, it hasn't, and even though they crave a good pork
chop or steak every now and again, I don't think they would ever go
back.
I would never serve them meat and expect them to eat it because it is
my house, or because I think that they should eat it. I think that
they respect me more because I allowed them this choice, AND
supported it. I also think it is great for my little ones, one of
which doesn't prefer meat, and one that does.
Maybe looking at things from that point of view will help you
understand. If you were made to eat meat in someone else's house, if
someone else did not agree with you, or would not prepare something
different for you...it might make you question thier respect for you.
Julie
diana jenner
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 6:42 AM, Robin Krest <rlkrest@...> wrote:
corporation stands for. Driving past it makes my skin crawl. We call it
"Waldemart" or "the store that shall not be named" -- and yet, I've
arranged Hayden to have middle of the night shopping trips there with other
folks who don't mind. And yes, I have had to suck it up and remind myself
"My child is more important than my principles" and walked in there my own
self to shop *joyfully* with him! I wrote about one time here
http://hannahbearski.blogspot.com/2007/01/our-life-is-adventure.html
I've gone through a similar process with Nestle products and we still love
Disneyland in spite of their overt Nestle promotion! Because, a joyful day
together is FAR more important than our politics...
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are againstIt's not vegetarianism at our house, it's Wal-Mart. I *hate* everything that
> one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests it?
>
>
>
>
>
corporation stands for. Driving past it makes my skin crawl. We call it
"Waldemart" or "the store that shall not be named" -- and yet, I've
arranged Hayden to have middle of the night shopping trips there with other
folks who don't mind. And yes, I have had to suck it up and remind myself
"My child is more important than my principles" and walked in there my own
self to shop *joyfully* with him! I wrote about one time here
http://hannahbearski.blogspot.com/2007/01/our-life-is-adventure.html
I've gone through a similar process with Nestle products and we still love
Disneyland in spite of their overt Nestle promotion! Because, a joyful day
together is FAR more important than our politics...
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Coyote
We consider Wal-Mart the retail arm of the evil empire. One thing that I know, for certain, is that we 'vote' with our money. None of my money goes to Wal-mart. Brianna has her own money. She agrees with me. She is free to go to Wal-Mart, if she chooses. She chooses not. We have been in Wal-Mart (I was told they were selling one of my designs), we noticed that Prilosec was over $3.00 more than I pay at CVS, I was on a Cheese-Nips binge and saw that the Cheese-Nips were more than 80 cents more than at Shaws.
We also have friends on various reservations. The Wal-Mart up near the Mandan-Hidatsu rez in North Dakota put all the smaller stores out of business then raised their prices.
Brianna knows this. These are her friends too. She knows how hard it is for some of our extended family - because of Wal-Mart.
Do you know of Wal-Mart watch?
www.wal-martwatch.com
Janis
East Providence
We also have friends on various reservations. The Wal-Mart up near the Mandan-Hidatsu rez in North Dakota put all the smaller stores out of business then raised their prices.
Brianna knows this. These are her friends too. She knows how hard it is for some of our extended family - because of Wal-Mart.
Do you know of Wal-Mart watch?
www.wal-martwatch.com
Janis
East Providence
----- Original Message -----
From: diana jenner
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Not eating meat WAS: TV Help me understand
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 6:42 AM, Robin Krest <rlkrest@...> wrote:
> To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are against
> one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests it?
>
>
>
>
>
It's not vegetarianism at our house, it's Wal-Mart. I *hate* everything that
corporation stands for. Driving past it makes my skin crawl. We call it
"Waldemart" or "the store that shall not be named" -- and yet, I've
arranged Hayden to have middle of the night shopping trips there with other
folks who don't mind. And yes, I have had to suck it up and remind myself
"My child is more important than my principles" and walked in there my own
self to shop *joyfully* with him! I wrote about one time here
http://hannahbearski.blogspot.com/2007/01/our-life-is-adventure.html
I've gone through a similar process with Nestle products and we still love
Disneyland in spite of their overt Nestle promotion! Because, a joyful day
together is FAR more important than our politics...
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pelirojita
Hi Marji,
Your post was great. I feed my 2 carnivorous dogs raw meat even
though I have been a vegetarian for 7 years. The health of rawfed
dogs is wondrous to behold, but I always made the analogy that I do
the same for my son (age 3) in that I put an emphasis on fresh, not
processed, food for him believing that because his diet has been
completely vegetarian I was doing him a favor and getting him off to a
good start. I never saw it as limiting his choices or experience (or
treating my dogs better then I treat my son).
I see the point that everyone has made about giving children a 'true'
choice. My husband is an omnivore and my son has eaten sausage and
other items from his plate when we were out to dinner and that was
fine. I did my best to be accepting, not sure if I pulled it off, but
I tried not to make a big deal out of it. I always knew that once my
son figured out his father was not a vegetarian that I wouldn't be
able to keep his diet veg, but the reality that this time has come at
age 3 is unsettling. I have had very little trouble feeding my dogs
raw meat because I don't have to cook it and there is very little
handling involved. I also am fortunate to get the leftovers from local
producers who treat their animals as humanely and ethically as
possible. The thought of cooking animal products again is more then
daunting. Well, we'll see how it goes and hopefully I will have
enough experience meeting his other needs in a respectful, joyful way
that if the requests for home cooked animal products ever does get
raised I will be able to support my DS in his choices.
I knew this unschooling thing was too good to be true!
(Ummm...just to be clear, that last line was a joke. I was getting
really excited about this way of life as it just makes so much sense
to me once I think about it, should of known there was a "catch." But
it is not a dealbreaker, now that I am starting to truly get the mind
shift I need and very much want to make.)
Thank you,
Kerry
Your post was great. I feed my 2 carnivorous dogs raw meat even
though I have been a vegetarian for 7 years. The health of rawfed
dogs is wondrous to behold, but I always made the analogy that I do
the same for my son (age 3) in that I put an emphasis on fresh, not
processed, food for him believing that because his diet has been
completely vegetarian I was doing him a favor and getting him off to a
good start. I never saw it as limiting his choices or experience (or
treating my dogs better then I treat my son).
I see the point that everyone has made about giving children a 'true'
choice. My husband is an omnivore and my son has eaten sausage and
other items from his plate when we were out to dinner and that was
fine. I did my best to be accepting, not sure if I pulled it off, but
I tried not to make a big deal out of it. I always knew that once my
son figured out his father was not a vegetarian that I wouldn't be
able to keep his diet veg, but the reality that this time has come at
age 3 is unsettling. I have had very little trouble feeding my dogs
raw meat because I don't have to cook it and there is very little
handling involved. I also am fortunate to get the leftovers from local
producers who treat their animals as humanely and ethically as
possible. The thought of cooking animal products again is more then
daunting. Well, we'll see how it goes and hopefully I will have
enough experience meeting his other needs in a respectful, joyful way
that if the requests for home cooked animal products ever does get
raised I will be able to support my DS in his choices.
I knew this unschooling thing was too good to be true!
(Ummm...just to be clear, that last line was a joke. I was getting
really excited about this way of life as it just makes so much sense
to me once I think about it, should of known there was a "catch." But
it is not a dealbreaker, now that I am starting to truly get the mind
shift I need and very much want to make.)
Thank you,
Kerry
--- In [email protected], marji <marji@...> wrote:
>
> At 18:13 6/24/2008, you wrote:
> >Just last week, I cooked a *steak* for Seth, because he asked for one.
> >ewww. Evan was grossed out by it, even though he'll eat burgers. Seth
> >didn't see my "ewww" face as I got it out and cooked it - what he saw
> >was me, listening to him and taking his needs and wants seriously.
>
> Beautifully put, Caren. I have been a vegetarian by choice since
> 1972. Liam, born in 1994, has been a vegetarian by tradition since
> he was born, but ever since he was able to understand, I have
> reminded him that not eating meat is MY choice, and I would
> absolutely support him in eating meat, if that's what he wanted to
> do. He has tasted meat and doesn't like it, but I remind him
> whenever the subject comes up that if he's interested, I will help him.
>
> I have two carnivorous cats. They need to eat meat, and I, who chose
> to invite them to live with me, make it happen for them. Why
> wouldn't I do the same for my son?
>
> ~Marji
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> <http://joyfullyparenting.com/>JoyFully Parenting & Life Coaching
> <http://gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf ~ Music for the Planet
> <http://myspace.com/marjizintz>Marji's Myspace Page
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ----------
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1516 - Release Date:
6/24/2008 7:53 AM
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Ginger and Jeff Sabo
On a more humorous note, you have my house! I'm a vegan raw foodist. Can
you imagine what it would be like here if my kids were fed the same things I
eat? Kade would waste away to nothing and Kai would go ballistic from lack
of meat (although he would at least *like and eat* most of what was offered
him).
I can't cook meat or deal with it raw. I can, however buy it from the store
and keep it in the fridge for when Kai wants it. I help him get it to the
plate or warm it up - at this age he is able to do most of this himself.
Kade would waste away to nothing on Kai's diet, too.
Kade only eats about 6 things right now, and that's good enough for me.
He's brain is still active, his body is still active and he is growing at
the same rapid rate Kai is. He's obviously finding what he needs.
Jeff is kind enough to eat most everything I fix. I try to juice beets when
it's just me :) and for that he is extremely grateful.
I'm just rejoicing that they are happy and healthy. My reasons for being
raw are part of what makes me me. I don't want little 'me's around...and
you probably don't want little 'me's around either!
--
In peace and love,
Ginger
Annie(18), Kai(9) and Kade(6)
http://twofreeboysplus3.blogspot.com/
LOVE has impact.
"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize,
accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde
http://www.savetherain.org/
favorite song...http://www.manitobamusic.com/play.php?vc=9
or is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akevZTqMe-U
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you imagine what it would be like here if my kids were fed the same things I
eat? Kade would waste away to nothing and Kai would go ballistic from lack
of meat (although he would at least *like and eat* most of what was offered
him).
I can't cook meat or deal with it raw. I can, however buy it from the store
and keep it in the fridge for when Kai wants it. I help him get it to the
plate or warm it up - at this age he is able to do most of this himself.
Kade would waste away to nothing on Kai's diet, too.
Kade only eats about 6 things right now, and that's good enough for me.
He's brain is still active, his body is still active and he is growing at
the same rapid rate Kai is. He's obviously finding what he needs.
Jeff is kind enough to eat most everything I fix. I try to juice beets when
it's just me :) and for that he is extremely grateful.
I'm just rejoicing that they are happy and healthy. My reasons for being
raw are part of what makes me me. I don't want little 'me's around...and
you probably don't want little 'me's around either!
--
In peace and love,
Ginger
Annie(18), Kai(9) and Kade(6)
http://twofreeboysplus3.blogspot.com/
LOVE has impact.
"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize,
accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde
http://www.savetherain.org/
favorite song...http://www.manitobamusic.com/play.php?vc=9
or is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akevZTqMe-U
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Therese
>>>I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices for my son. I donot and will not cook meat in my house, it is against my principles;
my son and DH sometimes choose to eat meat when we are elsewhere.
Why shouldn't I model my personal beliefs to my son?>>>
I think its totally fine to model your personal beliefs. Do meat
eaters model their meat-eating beliefs? Sure they do- they just
don't talk about it- its NORMAL in their family. If their children
decided that they wanted to be vegan, wouldn't an unschooling mom
support that? Sure they would- even though the parents may eat
become vegan themselves. I would assume the same in a vegan family.
Not eating meat is NORMAL in our family. If my children decided
eating meat is important to them, i would support them.
>>>Why shouldn't I help him make the decision himself by explainingwhy I do not eat meat and do not have it in the house (and at 4.5 he
can explain where meat comes from, so he has the connection between
real live animal and meat on the plate) but that he is quite free to
eat it elsewhere?>>>
At 4.5, (same age as my dd) I don't think you need to discuss it in
depth unless they ask. Be careful- there is a difference between
just not having it in the house because that is what your family does-
and making him feel bad about eating it by lecturing him. At this
point, he doesn't even know that what he is doing is *different*. If
he brings it up, you can explain what you do and why. i don't think
it needs to be made into a big deal.
>> Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would thesituation be different? The children you mention do eat meat, just
not from mom. >>>
I think you are talking about my earlier post? Yes, my children eat
meat when they want it- same as my husband. I do not withhold it
whenever they want it. Its sort of like breastfeeding my 2 year old.
I don't offer, but I don't refuse.
They have been raised veg, so and they don't know any different. My
kids are too young to understand- they only know what they are given
at this point. They don't ask for meat at home usually. In their
brains, meat comes from restaurants, not from home. If they would
ask me, 'Mom can I have chicken for dinner' then they would expect me
to drive through El Pollo Loco, and I would honor their wishes and do
it. There is no expectation for me to cook it at home, because its
just not done in our house. Not eating meat is my personal boundry
and I would expect them to honor that, just as I respect their need
for exploration. To me, its a two way street.
>> To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that areagainst one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests
it?>>>
As a Chrisitan, this is a tough one for me. I would be interested in
what others have to say. I have been told that I can't be a
Christian and a 'true' unschooler before.
Schuyler
I had a friend who was a vegetarian and so her son was a vegetarian as well. The son's plans when he became a man were to smoke, drink, and eat meat. He saw those things as the choices one makes with freedom. I have a daughter who is a vegetarian. I'm not a vegetarian, but I have never forced her or tricked her or limited her so that she would have the same moral belief as I do. Simon, my son, was a vegetarian when he was much younger, again, his choice and I was happy to support him. When he decided to eat meat I never lectured him about how he was letting go of his moral compass to satisfy his carnal nature <BWG>. I just bought meat for him. Linnaea and I have had a lot of conversations about why I eat meat and the meat I choose to buy and eat. Because of her ethical vegetarianism it is important to her that the meat David and I eat come from animals who were reared well. Fortunately meat is a luxury item that we afford when we can and in a form that I
feel good about.
I picked Simon up from sleepover party once that was being held at a vegetarian household, bar one. Because of the one, the dad had lots of bacon around and was fixing bacon sandwiches for breakfast. One girl, who lives in a family that has enforced vegetarianism, said, "Piglets are killed when they are 22 weeks old to make bacon." She then took a sandwich (there were plenty of vegetarian options available). I figured her sandwich must taste of guilt and rebellion as well as a 22 week old piglet.
The problem with making your vegetarianism his is that he doesn't get the chance to choose to eat as a vegetarian or as an omnivore without having the underlying guilt and pressure that you've created in your desire to form his beliefs in the image of your own. Eating, for him, may always have emotional and moral overtones that it doesn't need to have.
Having a child is often about embracing change; learning to go with another person's flow; napping when they nap and waking when they wake. It's a wonderful thing when you have the luxury to wrap your life around the rhythm of your child's life. Holding on to rules that you made before you had a child is putting a barrier between you and your son. It becomes a point of contention, whether or not it is a spoken point. There are wonderful discussions about rules versus principles(http://sandradodd.com/rules), but I'm not sure what principle not having meat in your house could possibly be supporting. It is about you being a vegetarian. From what you have written it isn't about anyone else in your household being a vegetarian. It seems very exclusionary.
Linnaea and I were upstairs this morning talking about this e-mail and I was talking about her dad and how he was a vegetarian for a long time. But that didn't preclude from having meat on occassion. When he was travelling in rural Belize he ate deer and fish, when he lived in the more inaccessible islands in the Phillipines he ate meat and when he would come with me to visit my grandparents he ate meat. For all of them, at least part of it was because his desire to be a vegetarian was less important than honoring his hosts. In the Phillipines I don't know that he could have sustained himself easily without meat, at my grandparents in Wichita, Kansas it would have been easy. But it made my grandparents happy to feed him, and he wanted to help them to be happy.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
I am now going to step into the veg thing below. I have been a vegetarian since 1993. I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices for my son. I do not and will not cook meat in my house, it is against my principles; my son and DH sometimes choose to eat meat when we are elsewhere. Why shouldn't I model my personal beliefs to my son? Why shouldn't I help him make the decision himself by explaining why I do not eat meat and do not have it in the house (and at 4.5 he can explain where meat comes from, so he has the connection between real live animal and meat on the plate) but that he is quite free to eat it elsewhere? The no meat in the house was something my husband and I decided in early 1994.
Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the situation be different? The children you mention do eat meat, just not from mom.
To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are against one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests it?
Robin
-- "swissarmy_wife" <heatherbean@ gmail.com> wrote:
It also bothers me that you have children who clearly like meat, but
you will not make it for them. You shouldn't make your personal
choices, theirs. They obviously do not have free choice of what they
eat. They have to wait for the couple times week dad brings home a
chicken.
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
feel good about.
I picked Simon up from sleepover party once that was being held at a vegetarian household, bar one. Because of the one, the dad had lots of bacon around and was fixing bacon sandwiches for breakfast. One girl, who lives in a family that has enforced vegetarianism, said, "Piglets are killed when they are 22 weeks old to make bacon." She then took a sandwich (there were plenty of vegetarian options available). I figured her sandwich must taste of guilt and rebellion as well as a 22 week old piglet.
The problem with making your vegetarianism his is that he doesn't get the chance to choose to eat as a vegetarian or as an omnivore without having the underlying guilt and pressure that you've created in your desire to form his beliefs in the image of your own. Eating, for him, may always have emotional and moral overtones that it doesn't need to have.
Having a child is often about embracing change; learning to go with another person's flow; napping when they nap and waking when they wake. It's a wonderful thing when you have the luxury to wrap your life around the rhythm of your child's life. Holding on to rules that you made before you had a child is putting a barrier between you and your son. It becomes a point of contention, whether or not it is a spoken point. There are wonderful discussions about rules versus principles(http://sandradodd.com/rules), but I'm not sure what principle not having meat in your house could possibly be supporting. It is about you being a vegetarian. From what you have written it isn't about anyone else in your household being a vegetarian. It seems very exclusionary.
Linnaea and I were upstairs this morning talking about this e-mail and I was talking about her dad and how he was a vegetarian for a long time. But that didn't preclude from having meat on occassion. When he was travelling in rural Belize he ate deer and fish, when he lived in the more inaccessible islands in the Phillipines he ate meat and when he would come with me to visit my grandparents he ate meat. For all of them, at least part of it was because his desire to be a vegetarian was less important than honoring his hosts. In the Phillipines I don't know that he could have sustained himself easily without meat, at my grandparents in Wichita, Kansas it would have been easy. But it made my grandparents happy to feed him, and he wanted to help them to be happy.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
I am now going to step into the veg thing below. I have been a vegetarian since 1993. I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices for my son. I do not and will not cook meat in my house, it is against my principles; my son and DH sometimes choose to eat meat when we are elsewhere. Why shouldn't I model my personal beliefs to my son? Why shouldn't I help him make the decision himself by explaining why I do not eat meat and do not have it in the house (and at 4.5 he can explain where meat comes from, so he has the connection between real live animal and meat on the plate) but that he is quite free to eat it elsewhere? The no meat in the house was something my husband and I decided in early 1994.
Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the situation be different? The children you mention do eat meat, just not from mom.
To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are against one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests it?
Robin
-- "swissarmy_wife" <heatherbean@ gmail.com> wrote:
It also bothers me that you have children who clearly like meat, but
you will not make it for them. You shouldn't make your personal
choices, theirs. They obviously do not have free choice of what they
eat. They have to wait for the couple times week dad brings home a
chicken.
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
There was no ill intention in my mother. I was there. My daughter ask
to try some fry chicken she had. My mother is actually very supportive
in the vegetarian way. I stopped eating meat (not totally but mostly)
at 5, SHE supported that. She found out more about a healthy meat-free
diet and helped me by buying me food I wasn't grossed out by. I
thought eating an animal was sick (at 5). She also introduced me to
health food stores and tofu. By the time I was 14, I completely
stopped all animal products, being that I was still at home she was in
control of buying me "appropriate" food. For a long time her house was
the only place my dd could get chicken. Which met everyones needs.
Then my dd started requesting chicken at home...I had to stretch.
Faith
to try some fry chicken she had. My mother is actually very supportive
in the vegetarian way. I stopped eating meat (not totally but mostly)
at 5, SHE supported that. She found out more about a healthy meat-free
diet and helped me by buying me food I wasn't grossed out by. I
thought eating an animal was sick (at 5). She also introduced me to
health food stores and tofu. By the time I was 14, I completely
stopped all animal products, being that I was still at home she was in
control of buying me "appropriate" food. For a long time her house was
the only place my dd could get chicken. Which met everyones needs.
Then my dd started requesting chicken at home...I had to stretch.
Faith
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Coyote <janis@...> wrote:
> I cannot imagine doing this. I am a vegetarian. Besides that....how dare
> your mother give your daughter anything w/o clearing it with you? Just as
> you should not force your beliefs on her...she can't force hers on your
> child.
> I would handle this differently.
> "I'm uncomfortable with this, perhaps grandma can offer you chicken" I don't
> think this is parenting, but acquiescence.
> But...heck...your mom had no right at all to do this.
> Where will she stop?
> What message is that giving to your daughter? How will she feel about
> chickens when she finds out the truth??
> Janis in East Providence, RI
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Faith Void
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 6:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Not eating meat WAS: TV Help me understand
>
> Both my husband and I have been vegetarian for over 20 years(me since
> 1986, dh since 1988), many years vegan. We didn't have meat for many
> years. Until my mother introduced my dd to chicken. She loved it. I
> had to stretch my comfort zone, A LOT. Neither my husband nor I still
> eat meat but we have it in our house and we even have chickens for
> eggs and meat. Soon I will be butchering my first chicken and doing
> things I can't even imagine to "clean" them (yuck) but it isn't just
> about me, it is about my kids. We came to this after not being able to
> afford organic free ranged meat for her. It is important to me because
> she is my child and her needs are real.
> Also I don't look it things quite the same way, this is OUR house not
> mine. We made the decision to move here and buy it together. Being
> about to raise chickens was a large part of our house search.
> I also think that not eating meat isn't a principle, compassion and
> kindness extended to our animals friends are. It isn't kind to your
> child to not allow him the choice of eating what his body requests. it
> doesn't show him trust or compassion. I think modling that towards
> your son might be more important then making his world and choices
> smaller.
>
>>
>> Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the situation
>> be
>> different? The children you mention do eat meat, just not from mom.
>
> No, I think if you are making his decisions for him you are usurping
> his autonomy{period}. Even if you use religion as an excuse it is
> still disrespectful.
>
> Faith
>
> --
> www.bearthmama.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
--
www.bearthmama.com
carenkh
-=-=-What message is that giving to your daughter? How will she feel
about chickens when she finds out the truth??-=-=-
I had to laugh at this... over the course of our discussions, of
course factory farming came up. I told the boys what *I* believe,
about how the fear and panic of the chicken ends up being part of the
meat. Seth grinned and said, "Yeah! That's what makes it taste so
g-o-o-o-o-o-o-d!!"
I long, long ago gave up the belief that if we unschooled, my children
would be little peace-loving, calm hippies, eco-aware, nonviolent and
oh, so sweet. They are who they are, completely and totally, and I
LOVE every molecule.
Caren
about chickens when she finds out the truth??-=-=-
I had to laugh at this... over the course of our discussions, of
course factory farming came up. I told the boys what *I* believe,
about how the fear and panic of the chicken ends up being part of the
meat. Seth grinned and said, "Yeah! That's what makes it taste so
g-o-o-o-o-o-o-d!!"
I long, long ago gave up the belief that if we unschooled, my children
would be little peace-loving, calm hippies, eco-aware, nonviolent and
oh, so sweet. They are who they are, completely and totally, and I
LOVE every molecule.
Caren
Faith Void
>>> To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that areYou are free to bleieve what works for you, your personal truth. As an
> against one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests
> it?>>>
>
> As a Chrisitan, this is a tough one for me. I would be interested in
> what others have to say. I have been told that I can't be a
> Christian and a 'true' unschooler before.
>
unschooler your child/ren needs to be free to choose their own
personal belief system that may be very different from yours. And that
you fully support it and not criticize or patronize it/them in any
way.
I am going through this right now. My kids are going to a vacation
bible school at the church across from our house. I am not christian
but I am supporting their choices and exploration.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
Ren Allen
~~As a Chrisitan, this is a tough one for me. I would be interested in
that the children should believe like they do, unschooling gets
inhibited to a large degree.
How free are you to question and learn about anything in a home where
a certain belief is more important than the exploration? If a parent
can release judgement and discuss things with the attitude of a
curious explorer,then it will all work out just fine.
I personally don't see how a person can freely explore different ideas
and beliefs without judgement if they believe hell and heaven are on
the line. THat's where I think it can get sticky for some parents.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
> what others have to say. I have been told that I can't be aI think anyone can be an unschooler. I think when a parent decides
> Christian and a 'true' unschooler before.~~
that the children should believe like they do, unschooling gets
inhibited to a large degree.
How free are you to question and learn about anything in a home where
a certain belief is more important than the exploration? If a parent
can release judgement and discuss things with the attitude of a
curious explorer,then it will all work out just fine.
I personally don't see how a person can freely explore different ideas
and beliefs without judgement if they believe hell and heaven are on
the line. THat's where I think it can get sticky for some parents.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Debra Rossing
FWIW many grocery stores offer whole roasted chickens, already cooked,
ready to take home. And, there are frozen already cooked meats (and yes,
you can find some that are organic and not totally laden with salt and
preservatives - generally in the freezer section over by the Boca
Burgers and such usually - might have to explore your local market a bit
to find them) that just need heating in the micro or oven. That might be
a way to satisfy the omnivores without grossing out the veg folks.
Informationally, we're not veg - we prefer a plant based diet for health
reasons and that's what we generally eat at home (and often when we are
out as well, depending on circumstances). However, if DS requests hot
dogs, we buy hot dogs - and I look for the lowest sodium best quality I
can get when he does ask, because sometimes he's just needing so much
protein for a growth jump that beans/legumes, whole grains, nuts, and
cheeses just don't cut it *for him* (YMMV). He'll grab them as a late
night snack, cold from the fridge (gives me the willies LOL) for a time
then not look at one for months on end (it was close to a year the last
time). Sometimes, the hot dogs need to wait because if I'm shopping as
usual at the co-op, it's vegetarian (no meat but they do carry local
and/or organic eggs, dairy, and honey) so they don't have hot dogs (we
tried the substitutes, no dice) and I put the hot dogs on the 'regular'
list for the next time I'm at the 'regular' grocery store (where I also
get a few items the co-op doesn't stock and the occasional item that is
at both places but the regular grocery is less expensive). Sometimes
that's all done in one big day of shopping, sometimes it's alternate
weeks, sometimes it's just the next day.
Oh, and, DS has known where meats come from since he was old enough to
ask where hot dogs or burgers or whatever comes from (3ish maybe?) - he
knows it's dead cow, pig, chicken, whatever. And, as he's gotten older,
he knows why I try to find free range chicken and eggs or whatever
(conditions on factory farms for example). It's all informationally
presented just as if he asked where a tomato came from or an apple and
we had some interesting discussions after Bee Movie about the whole idea
of bee farming and the role bees play in agriculture and Colony
Collapse. It's just information - if he asks for an opinion, that's what
he gets my "opinion" based on whatever information I may have gathered
or we'll go look up questions together.
Deb
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ready to take home. And, there are frozen already cooked meats (and yes,
you can find some that are organic and not totally laden with salt and
preservatives - generally in the freezer section over by the Boca
Burgers and such usually - might have to explore your local market a bit
to find them) that just need heating in the micro or oven. That might be
a way to satisfy the omnivores without grossing out the veg folks.
Informationally, we're not veg - we prefer a plant based diet for health
reasons and that's what we generally eat at home (and often when we are
out as well, depending on circumstances). However, if DS requests hot
dogs, we buy hot dogs - and I look for the lowest sodium best quality I
can get when he does ask, because sometimes he's just needing so much
protein for a growth jump that beans/legumes, whole grains, nuts, and
cheeses just don't cut it *for him* (YMMV). He'll grab them as a late
night snack, cold from the fridge (gives me the willies LOL) for a time
then not look at one for months on end (it was close to a year the last
time). Sometimes, the hot dogs need to wait because if I'm shopping as
usual at the co-op, it's vegetarian (no meat but they do carry local
and/or organic eggs, dairy, and honey) so they don't have hot dogs (we
tried the substitutes, no dice) and I put the hot dogs on the 'regular'
list for the next time I'm at the 'regular' grocery store (where I also
get a few items the co-op doesn't stock and the occasional item that is
at both places but the regular grocery is less expensive). Sometimes
that's all done in one big day of shopping, sometimes it's alternate
weeks, sometimes it's just the next day.
Oh, and, DS has known where meats come from since he was old enough to
ask where hot dogs or burgers or whatever comes from (3ish maybe?) - he
knows it's dead cow, pig, chicken, whatever. And, as he's gotten older,
he knows why I try to find free range chicken and eggs or whatever
(conditions on factory farms for example). It's all informationally
presented just as if he asked where a tomato came from or an apple and
we had some interesting discussions after Bee Movie about the whole idea
of bee farming and the role bees play in agriculture and Colony
Collapse. It's just information - if he asks for an opinion, that's what
he gets my "opinion" based on whatever information I may have gathered
or we'll go look up questions together.
Deb
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lindsey
I've kept to myself so far but I need to point out that there is more
then one reason that people are vegetarian/vegan. I'm vegan and
completely believe that meat is not safe anymore. I really could
care less what other people eat. My kids love their chewable
vitamins and asprin. Would I let them eat the whole bottle?
Allowing them to eat meat is the same in my house.
I'm not nitpicky if an item has milk or eggs included in the
ingredients when we're out but they don't eat them straight up. I'm
allergic to milk and so is my daughter. She knows if she has
something with milk it will make her stomach hurt. At 6 Isaac
chooses, most of the time, not to have dairy.
--- In [email protected], "Therese"
<theresefranklin@...> wrote:
then one reason that people are vegetarian/vegan. I'm vegan and
completely believe that meat is not safe anymore. I really could
care less what other people eat. My kids love their chewable
vitamins and asprin. Would I let them eat the whole bottle?
Allowing them to eat meat is the same in my house.
I'm not nitpicky if an item has milk or eggs included in the
ingredients when we're out but they don't eat them straight up. I'm
allergic to milk and so is my daughter. She knows if she has
something with milk it will make her stomach hurt. At 6 Isaac
chooses, most of the time, not to have dairy.
--- In [email protected], "Therese"
<theresefranklin@...> wrote:
>principles;
> >>>I am modeling the vegetarian life and choices for my son. I do
> not and will not cook meat in my house, it is against my
> my son and DH sometimes choose to eat meat when we are elsewhere.family.
> Why shouldn't I model my personal beliefs to my son?>>>
>
> I think its totally fine to model your personal beliefs. Do meat
> eaters model their meat-eating beliefs? Sure they do- they just
> don't talk about it- its NORMAL in their family. If their children
> decided that they wanted to be vegan, wouldn't an unschooling mom
> support that? Sure they would- even though the parents may eat
> become vegan themselves. I would assume the same in a vegan
> Not eating meat is NORMAL in our family. If my children decidedhe
> eating meat is important to them, i would support them.
>
> >>>Why shouldn't I help him make the decision himself by explaining
> why I do not eat meat and do not have it in the house (and at 4.5
> can explain where meat comes from, so he has the connection betweento
> real live animal and meat on the plate) but that he is quite free
> eat it elsewhere?>>>does-
>
> At 4.5, (same age as my dd) I don't think you need to discuss it in
> depth unless they ask. Be careful- there is a difference between
> just not having it in the house because that is what your family
> and making him feel bad about eating it by lecturing him. At thisIf
> point, he doesn't even know that what he is doing is *different*.
> he brings it up, you can explain what you do and why. i don't thinkold.
> it needs to be made into a big deal.
>
> >> Were it a religious reason for abstaining from meat, would the
> situation be different? The children you mention do eat meat, just
> not from mom. >>>
> I think you are talking about my earlier post? Yes, my children eat
> meat when they want it- same as my husband. I do not withhold it
> whenever they want it. Its sort of like breastfeeding my 2 year
> I don't offer, but I don't refuse.My
> They have been raised veg, so and they don't know any different.
> kids are too young to understand- they only know what they aregiven
> at this point. They don't ask for meat at home usually. In theirme
> brains, meat comes from restaurants, not from home. If they would
> ask me, 'Mom can I have chicken for dinner' then they would expect
> to drive through El Pollo Loco, and I would honor their wishes anddo
> it. There is no expectation for me to cook it at home, because itsin
> just not done in our house. Not eating meat is my personal boundry
> and I would expect them to honor that, just as I respect their need
> for exploration. To me, its a two way street.
>
> >> To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are
> against one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests
> it?>>>
>
> As a Chrisitan, this is a tough one for me. I would be interested
> what others have to say. I have been told that I can't be a
> Christian and a 'true' unschooler before.
>
Ren Allen
~~Would I let them eat the whole bottle?
Allowing them to eat meat is the same in my house.~~
REally? You think that if they eat meat it could shut down their
kidneys and cause toxicity? Please don't equate iron toxicity or
medicinal poisoning with food. It's alarmist and doesn't help anyone
analyze the discussion rationally.
My grandparents were farmers for most of their lives. They raised all
sorts of animals, the main herd being beef cattle. I remember watching
the butchering and taking the innards in to my Grandma to be put up.
Both those grandparents are in their 90's now and doing well. My
Grandpa was logging up until recently. They ate meat like it was the
only food on earth sometimes. Red meat no less. If meat isn't safe
then they should have died a Looooonnnngggg time ago.
If someone is concerned about what is IN the meat (like hormones and
antibiotics) there are still ways to meet the need of a child that
wants to try those things and pacify the parent's need for it to be a
healthy source.
The idea here isn't to advocate for or against meat-eating (or any
other thing). The idea is to advocate for a child's right to CHOOSE
for themselves without guilt and judgement.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Allowing them to eat meat is the same in my house.~~
REally? You think that if they eat meat it could shut down their
kidneys and cause toxicity? Please don't equate iron toxicity or
medicinal poisoning with food. It's alarmist and doesn't help anyone
analyze the discussion rationally.
My grandparents were farmers for most of their lives. They raised all
sorts of animals, the main herd being beef cattle. I remember watching
the butchering and taking the innards in to my Grandma to be put up.
Both those grandparents are in their 90's now and doing well. My
Grandpa was logging up until recently. They ate meat like it was the
only food on earth sometimes. Red meat no less. If meat isn't safe
then they should have died a Looooonnnngggg time ago.
If someone is concerned about what is IN the meat (like hormones and
antibiotics) there are still ways to meet the need of a child that
wants to try those things and pacify the parent's need for it to be a
healthy source.
The idea here isn't to advocate for or against meat-eating (or any
other thing). The idea is to advocate for a child's right to CHOOSE
for themselves without guilt and judgement.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
k
Is there truly a dichotomy between religion and respecting children or is
"child vs. religion" simply a divisive thought?
For me realizing that no matter what religion I have, my inability to see
and know everything in another's heart and mind holds me in check from
judging when my child does something inappropriately. I can find a way to
help ds do at least some part of what he wants to do, knowing that he needs
to find good ways to do them and that I =an adult= can help him.
If your religion requires you to follow rules rather than understanding
what's good/bad, that's likely to be why a child's exploration of the world
goes against one's religion.
With or without religion in the question, what we're dealing with is
still Rules
versus Principles <http://sandradodd.com/rules> (http://sandradodd.com/rules
).
~Katherine
"child vs. religion" simply a divisive thought?
For me realizing that no matter what religion I have, my inability to see
and know everything in another's heart and mind holds me in check from
judging when my child does something inappropriately. I can find a way to
help ds do at least some part of what he wants to do, knowing that he needs
to find good ways to do them and that I =an adult= can help him.
If your religion requires you to follow rules rather than understanding
what's good/bad, that's likely to be why a child's exploration of the world
goes against one's religion.
With or without religion in the question, what we're dealing with is
still Rules
versus Principles <http://sandradodd.com/rules> (http://sandradodd.com/rules
).
~Katherine
On 6/25/08, Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> >>> To be a true unschooler, does one have to do things that are
> > against one's principles or religious beliefs if the child requests
> > it?>>>
> >
> > As a Chrisitan, this is a tough one for me. I would be interested in
> > what others have to say. I have been told that I can't be a
> > Christian and a 'true' unschooler before.
> >
> You are free to bleieve what works for you, your personal truth. As an
> unschooler your child/ren needs to be free to choose their own
> personal belief system that may be very different from yours. And that
> you fully support it and not criticize or patronize it/them in any
> way.
> I am going through this right now. My kids are going to a vacation
> bible school at the church across from our house. I am not christian
> but I am supporting their choices and exploration.
>
> Faith
> .
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Gray
As a Christian, it's important to realize that Jesus was the ultimate
unschooler. he never ONCE told people what they had to do or when. He
gave everyone a choice. He educated them and let them make choices.
And even when he didn't agree with their choices, even when their
choices led to problems, he didn't castigate...he promoted love for
everyone.
Of course, I guess it depends on your denomination as to your
personal leanings on the bible. As a Christian, the most important
part of the bible is the first four books, the only ones that have
Christ's actual words in it.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
unschooler. he never ONCE told people what they had to do or when. He
gave everyone a choice. He educated them and let them make choices.
And even when he didn't agree with their choices, even when their
choices led to problems, he didn't castigate...he promoted love for
everyone.
Of course, I guess it depends on your denomination as to your
personal leanings on the bible. As a Christian, the most important
part of the bible is the first four books, the only ones that have
Christ's actual words in it.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On Jun 25, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Faith Void wrote:
> > As a Chrisitan, this is a tough one for me. I would be interested in
> > what others have to say. I have been told that I can't be a
> > Christian and a 'true' unschooler before.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
techwritercsbn
Ren wrote:
ABSOLUTELY! Almost every major killer of Americans is diet-related.
While not instant, diet (and meat specifically) correlates with type 2
diabetes -- which leads to kidney failure. Hypertension, too.
Ren and I have grandparents who made it to their 90s eating meat. The
average life expectancy in the U.S. is in the 70s, so that's not too
bad in comparison. Although the vast majority of Americans dies from
diet-related causes, eating anything and everything is a gamble that
might be worth it in many families striving primarily to operate with
joy.
Now, those are my beliefs based on the scientific literature out
there. I know most on here belive the unrestricted RU child will make
choices that ultimately result in good health, that joy trumps food
safety issues and that many doubt food-health links are significant at
all.
Also, while they are young, most kids take on their parents beliefs,
but I expect that one or all of my children will diverge in many ways
as they grow and that's okay. My children are formulating their own
beliefs, but still I'm not going to encourage something I feel is
unsafe, although we do openly discuss anything and everything. I tell
them what I believe, what others believe and that they are free to
choose.
But it is very hard for me. I feel like there are many times I'm
sacrificing safety for freedom or vice versa.
I enjoy the optimism that many on here have about people with
unrestricted diets having bodies that naturally pick what they need,
but I do not see it happening at all. Even (especially?) among the
unschooled, my experiences and the descriptions of what RU kids eat to
be very similar to what I see schooled kids eat -- with very few
servings of fruits and vegetables each day.
Christe
> REally? You think that if they eat meat it could shut down theirOh, I tried so hard to just read, but now I'm chiming in here with
> kidneys and cause toxicity?
ABSOLUTELY! Almost every major killer of Americans is diet-related.
While not instant, diet (and meat specifically) correlates with type 2
diabetes -- which leads to kidney failure. Hypertension, too.
Ren and I have grandparents who made it to their 90s eating meat. The
average life expectancy in the U.S. is in the 70s, so that's not too
bad in comparison. Although the vast majority of Americans dies from
diet-related causes, eating anything and everything is a gamble that
might be worth it in many families striving primarily to operate with
joy.
Now, those are my beliefs based on the scientific literature out
there. I know most on here belive the unrestricted RU child will make
choices that ultimately result in good health, that joy trumps food
safety issues and that many doubt food-health links are significant at
all.
Also, while they are young, most kids take on their parents beliefs,
but I expect that one or all of my children will diverge in many ways
as they grow and that's okay. My children are formulating their own
beliefs, but still I'm not going to encourage something I feel is
unsafe, although we do openly discuss anything and everything. I tell
them what I believe, what others believe and that they are free to
choose.
But it is very hard for me. I feel like there are many times I'm
sacrificing safety for freedom or vice versa.
I enjoy the optimism that many on here have about people with
unrestricted diets having bodies that naturally pick what they need,
but I do not see it happening at all. Even (especially?) among the
unschooled, my experiences and the descriptions of what RU kids eat to
be very similar to what I see schooled kids eat -- with very few
servings of fruits and vegetables each day.
Christe
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 25, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Lindsey wrote:
If you put both ideas in the same "Unsafe" box, and treat them as
though they were the same, you will lose credibility with your
children. They will see kids eating meat and not dying. Right now
they're young and trust you. In the next few years that will change.
We're way more likely to influence our kids towards our values if we
practice our values while treating theirs with as much consideration.
Forcing our values on our kids, no matter how sensible we're certain
our values are, is more likely to create children who choose opposite
of what they were trained to do just to seek the freedom to choose.
Unfortunately parents will then think, "Well, I did my best to teach
them." Yeah, well, if teaching kids worked, parents would never need
a technique other than telling kids what to do and schools would work
like a charm.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Would I let them eat the whole bottle?People do not drop dead within hours after eating a single hamburger.
> Allowing them to eat meat is the same in my house.
If you put both ideas in the same "Unsafe" box, and treat them as
though they were the same, you will lose credibility with your
children. They will see kids eating meat and not dying. Right now
they're young and trust you. In the next few years that will change.
We're way more likely to influence our kids towards our values if we
practice our values while treating theirs with as much consideration.
Forcing our values on our kids, no matter how sensible we're certain
our values are, is more likely to create children who choose opposite
of what they were trained to do just to seek the freedom to choose.
Unfortunately parents will then think, "Well, I did my best to teach
them." Yeah, well, if teaching kids worked, parents would never need
a technique other than telling kids what to do and schools would work
like a charm.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~Ren wrote:
Oh, I tried so hard to just read, but now I'm chiming in here with
ABSOLUTELY! Almost every major killer of Americans is diet-related.~~
I didn't ask whether illness or death could be caused by diet though,
what I DID ask is whether someone really believed you could compare
eating meat to a one-time overdose of medicine or iron. It's complete
bullcrap that eating meat can shut down your kidneys or toxify the
body in the way that an overdose can. Ridiculous.
Even IF you could prove that eating meat was the cause of health
problems (never proven) it is silly to compare it to an overdose which
affects the body immediately,not over the long term.
It's really interesting to read how self-righteous some vegetarians
get about meat. I don't eat meat myself,but it doesn't make that
choice better than someone elses choice to eat meat. Try to remember
that this whole debate about vegetarianism would NOT be happening in a
less wealthy country. It is only because you live in a country where
there is an abundance of food, any day of the week, without much
effort that you can even HAVE a choice about any of this.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
> REally? You think that if they eat meat it could shut down theirShari:
> kidneys and cause toxicity?
Oh, I tried so hard to just read, but now I'm chiming in here with
ABSOLUTELY! Almost every major killer of Americans is diet-related.~~
I didn't ask whether illness or death could be caused by diet though,
what I DID ask is whether someone really believed you could compare
eating meat to a one-time overdose of medicine or iron. It's complete
bullcrap that eating meat can shut down your kidneys or toxify the
body in the way that an overdose can. Ridiculous.
Even IF you could prove that eating meat was the cause of health
problems (never proven) it is silly to compare it to an overdose which
affects the body immediately,not over the long term.
It's really interesting to read how self-righteous some vegetarians
get about meat. I don't eat meat myself,but it doesn't make that
choice better than someone elses choice to eat meat. Try to remember
that this whole debate about vegetarianism would NOT be happening in a
less wealthy country. It is only because you live in a country where
there is an abundance of food, any day of the week, without much
effort that you can even HAVE a choice about any of this.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Melissa Gray
Bushlit.
That's the nice way of saying that is absolute crap. I have seven
unschooled kids who can eat whatever they want, and yet we go through
at least 15 lbs of apples, 10 of oranges, and pounds of pears,
peaches, grapes, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, nectarines
and bananas every single WEEK. They choose homemade yoghurt, sprouted
wheat, kefir in their smoothies. We have a 400 sq ft garden full of
tomatoes, peppers, two types of beans, cucumbers and squash, that
never produces enough to can because they eat in on the way in to the
kitchen. I regularly hang out (several times a week) with up to
twenty unschooled kids who have the exact same sort of diet. Yeah,
they eat their chips and candy and soda, but few servings of veggies
or fruit is a stretch. How many unschooled children do you have
experience with IRL?
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
That's the nice way of saying that is absolute crap. I have seven
unschooled kids who can eat whatever they want, and yet we go through
at least 15 lbs of apples, 10 of oranges, and pounds of pears,
peaches, grapes, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, nectarines
and bananas every single WEEK. They choose homemade yoghurt, sprouted
wheat, kefir in their smoothies. We have a 400 sq ft garden full of
tomatoes, peppers, two types of beans, cucumbers and squash, that
never produces enough to can because they eat in on the way in to the
kitchen. I regularly hang out (several times a week) with up to
twenty unschooled kids who have the exact same sort of diet. Yeah,
they eat their chips and candy and soda, but few servings of veggies
or fruit is a stretch. How many unschooled children do you have
experience with IRL?
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On Jun 25, 2008, at 1:47 PM, techwritercsbn wrote:
> I enjoy the optimism that many on here have about people with
> unrestricted diets having bodies that naturally pick what they need,
> but I do not see it happening at all. Even (especially?) among the
> unschooled, my experiences and the descriptions of what RU kids eat to
> be very similar to what I see schooled kids eat -- with very few
> servings of fruits and vegetables each day.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One of the Wechts
Recent conversation...
Mom : "Hey I am at the store, what should I get?"
Andrew : "We need more fruit!"
He knows he can have anything in the store and he asks for fruit!
Small garden project in our yard...
Jessica is eating spinach as fast as it grows...waiting impatiently for the
rest.
Yes. Their last apple was "candied", but they eat plenty of regular ones.
It is hard to keep them in stock. (see above :)
Yes. They enjoy soda and chips, but at a recent D & D game (eclectic
homeschool mix)
they polished off as much or more grapes and carrots and water as they did
anything else.
Real unschoolers. Real lives. Real choices. Healthy kids.
Beth in MD (waiting impatiently for my cherry tomatoes!)
19yos, 16yos, 12yod
Mom : "Hey I am at the store, what should I get?"
Andrew : "We need more fruit!"
He knows he can have anything in the store and he asks for fruit!
Small garden project in our yard...
Jessica is eating spinach as fast as it grows...waiting impatiently for the
rest.
Yes. Their last apple was "candied", but they eat plenty of regular ones.
It is hard to keep them in stock. (see above :)
Yes. They enjoy soda and chips, but at a recent D & D game (eclectic
homeschool mix)
they polished off as much or more grapes and carrots and water as they did
anything else.
Real unschoolers. Real lives. Real choices. Healthy kids.
Beth in MD (waiting impatiently for my cherry tomatoes!)
19yos, 16yos, 12yod
> On Jun 25, 2008, at 1:47 PM, techwritercsbn wrote:
>
>> I enjoy the optimism that many on here have about people with
>> unrestricted diets having bodies that naturally pick what they need,
>> but I do not see it happening at all. Even (especially?) among the
>> unschooled, my experiences and the descriptions of what RU kids eat to
>> be very similar to what I see schooled kids eat -- with very few
>> servings of fruits and vegetables each day.
Jodi Bezzola
~~I enjoy the optimism that many on here have about people with
unrestricted diets having bodies that naturally pick what they need,
but I do not see it happening at all. Even (especially? ) among the
unschooled, my experiences and the descriptions of what RU kids eat to
be very similar to what I see schooled kids eat -- with very few
servings of fruits and vegetables each day.~~
Rubbish. In my experience, this statement reflects a very mainstream belief that when given complete freedom around food kids will choose only sugar-laden/deep fried/etc. foods. This COMPLETELY flies in the face of our experience with our 3 1/2 year old girls. When given the choice they almost ALWAYS choose fruit, and OFTEN leave half-eaten sweets until they are so dried out I have to throw them away. They MOST often could careless about candy, pop, ice cream, and most always ask for something like a wrap, apple, pear, pineapple, raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, carrots, red pepper, green beans, plain yogurt, brown rice, and the list goes on. I dare you (because I've done the experiment with mine and have read countless other stories of others who have!) to try it with your kids. It takes awhile for them to get that they can have anything anytime, REALLY get it, but after that I would venture that if you kept track for a week
their diet would be VERY balanced. And that's balanced according to their tastes, not to yours!
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unrestricted diets having bodies that naturally pick what they need,
but I do not see it happening at all. Even (especially? ) among the
unschooled, my experiences and the descriptions of what RU kids eat to
be very similar to what I see schooled kids eat -- with very few
servings of fruits and vegetables each day.~~
Rubbish. In my experience, this statement reflects a very mainstream belief that when given complete freedom around food kids will choose only sugar-laden/deep fried/etc. foods. This COMPLETELY flies in the face of our experience with our 3 1/2 year old girls. When given the choice they almost ALWAYS choose fruit, and OFTEN leave half-eaten sweets until they are so dried out I have to throw them away. They MOST often could careless about candy, pop, ice cream, and most always ask for something like a wrap, apple, pear, pineapple, raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, carrots, red pepper, green beans, plain yogurt, brown rice, and the list goes on. I dare you (because I've done the experiment with mine and have read countless other stories of others who have!) to try it with your kids. It takes awhile for them to get that they can have anything anytime, REALLY get it, but after that I would venture that if you kept track for a week
their diet would be VERY balanced. And that's balanced according to their tastes, not to yours!
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ginger and Jeff Sabo
I have to say that one of my children is a very picky eater. He's also the
one with a majorly sensitive nose (he's actually gagged just sitting next to
what Kai is eating because of the smell) and is sensitive to textures. So
I don't push food on him. He eats about 6 things (no fruit, no veggies) and
is still healthy and happy. I am just now seeing him venture a look at
something other than his 6 things...and I know he will either find a way to
adapt or find some other way to get those nutrients. Is it ideal...not
mine...but he's fine with it.
Kai eats everything (except raw tomatoes and mushrooms) he comes across and
is very welcome to try anything and everything. He eats fruit all day as
well as other things. He eats veggies, too. So I'm totally not worried
about his diet - ever. Kade sees all that Kai eats...and is just astonished
that anyone would do that willingly!
I eat a vegan raw diet. I'm currently about 85% totally raw and trying to
get that extra bit raw back. This isn't because of religion or
anything...it's because of health. My body can't process anything that's
already been cooked and it really can't process meat of any kind. I would
never have chosen this diet on my own, completely raw that is.
I do however, believe my kids have their own body and I am not going to
project a negative value of food onto them. I want to see them eating what
is good for them. If there is a reason to change diet for health reasons,
then I know I have the knowledge and where-with-all to help them with it.
Kids' bodies heal so much faster than ours do...and the phases of food they
crave are dramatic.
I'm not going to box my children into one way of eating...
--
In peace and love,
Ginger
Annie(18), Kai(9) and Kade(6)
http://twofreeboysplus3.blogspot.com/
LOVE has impact.
"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize,
accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde
http://www.savetherain.org/
favorite song...http://www.manitobamusic.com/play.php?vc=9
or is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akevZTqMe-U
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
one with a majorly sensitive nose (he's actually gagged just sitting next to
what Kai is eating because of the smell) and is sensitive to textures. So
I don't push food on him. He eats about 6 things (no fruit, no veggies) and
is still healthy and happy. I am just now seeing him venture a look at
something other than his 6 things...and I know he will either find a way to
adapt or find some other way to get those nutrients. Is it ideal...not
mine...but he's fine with it.
Kai eats everything (except raw tomatoes and mushrooms) he comes across and
is very welcome to try anything and everything. He eats fruit all day as
well as other things. He eats veggies, too. So I'm totally not worried
about his diet - ever. Kade sees all that Kai eats...and is just astonished
that anyone would do that willingly!
I eat a vegan raw diet. I'm currently about 85% totally raw and trying to
get that extra bit raw back. This isn't because of religion or
anything...it's because of health. My body can't process anything that's
already been cooked and it really can't process meat of any kind. I would
never have chosen this diet on my own, completely raw that is.
I do however, believe my kids have their own body and I am not going to
project a negative value of food onto them. I want to see them eating what
is good for them. If there is a reason to change diet for health reasons,
then I know I have the knowledge and where-with-all to help them with it.
Kids' bodies heal so much faster than ours do...and the phases of food they
crave are dramatic.
I'm not going to box my children into one way of eating...
--
In peace and love,
Ginger
Annie(18), Kai(9) and Kade(6)
http://twofreeboysplus3.blogspot.com/
LOVE has impact.
"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize,
accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde
http://www.savetherain.org/
favorite song...http://www.manitobamusic.com/play.php?vc=9
or is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akevZTqMe-U
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]