Maybe OT? aggression and disagreements-parenting compassionately
Kelli Johnston
Hi, I was wondering if someone could help me with some ideas on how to help my son with aggressive or disrespectful reactions to his feelings (upset and happy). I read Sandra Dodd's piece on sibling fighting and I think it is mostly what we do already. But I am thinking more in regard to other children that we may or may not know.
Two situations that come up for us is when my son will throw dirt or rocks around himself for fun but they often hurt people inadvertantly. Sometimes he thinks it is funny to get a reaction from others too so it isn't all inadvertant. I normally go to him and tell him that he should be sure to not be near others that could get hurt by his actions or to be respectful of other's wishes when playing (some kids don't like to be splashed and some do-like him :O)). He will continue to do these things though ....over and over again even after every time I speak with him about it. Sometimes if I tell him to move to another place where he can throw rocks safely he will just shout "NO!" and laugh.
THe other situation is when he is extremely frustrated or upset, he is reaction is to hit and scream at....every one around him. We have told him and showed him how to release his anger on his pillow or to use specific words instead but it is still an on going struggle for him. He is getting really heavy now and removing him from situations is extremely difficult (say he is hitting his sister and won't stop fighting with her....lots of times it is to get her to go away from him so removing her first seems to be unfair?)....or once he held onto another girl in the water and she went under and freaked out. It was in play and he didn't realize it was dangerous but once I said to stop and helped her out of the water he didn't seem to understand the seriousness of the situation and swam off laughing. I kept asking him to talk to me about it and he refused.
He is on the spectrum so empathy, impulse and explosiveness has always been a challenge for him (and us) but it comes in waves....and we are in a wave!. He is almost 6 years old. I do a fair amount of preparation before we do anything.....reminding him of ways to be respectful of others and not hurt others in playdate settings. He acknowledges that he understands and seems empathetic while we are talking then but it all goes out the window when we are in the situation.Thanks!- Kelli
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Two situations that come up for us is when my son will throw dirt or rocks around himself for fun but they often hurt people inadvertantly. Sometimes he thinks it is funny to get a reaction from others too so it isn't all inadvertant. I normally go to him and tell him that he should be sure to not be near others that could get hurt by his actions or to be respectful of other's wishes when playing (some kids don't like to be splashed and some do-like him :O)). He will continue to do these things though ....over and over again even after every time I speak with him about it. Sometimes if I tell him to move to another place where he can throw rocks safely he will just shout "NO!" and laugh.
THe other situation is when he is extremely frustrated or upset, he is reaction is to hit and scream at....every one around him. We have told him and showed him how to release his anger on his pillow or to use specific words instead but it is still an on going struggle for him. He is getting really heavy now and removing him from situations is extremely difficult (say he is hitting his sister and won't stop fighting with her....lots of times it is to get her to go away from him so removing her first seems to be unfair?)....or once he held onto another girl in the water and she went under and freaked out. It was in play and he didn't realize it was dangerous but once I said to stop and helped her out of the water he didn't seem to understand the seriousness of the situation and swam off laughing. I kept asking him to talk to me about it and he refused.
He is on the spectrum so empathy, impulse and explosiveness has always been a challenge for him (and us) but it comes in waves....and we are in a wave!. He is almost 6 years old. I do a fair amount of preparation before we do anything.....reminding him of ways to be respectful of others and not hurt others in playdate settings. He acknowledges that he understands and seems empathetic while we are talking then but it all goes out the window when we are in the situation.Thanks!- Kelli
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer
My son is PDD and we have a lot of this exact same stuff going on. When his little brother does something to upset him he usually reacts by screaming and then hitting the 1st available "safe" person (usually his sister). We constantly have issues with dirt/rock throwing, inappropriate grabbing, etc. I am sorry to say that I do not know anything that works, however, I know a lot of things that don't. I continually take the same stance as you do and show understanding and empathy when I explain that the things he is doing upsetting and/or dangerous to others. He does have the capability to stop doing the activity, for how long all depends on his receptivity that day. Some days it's only a few mins. and other times he'll just move on to some other activity that may or may not be considered better. The best thing I can offer to help is that when I understand/remember that everything for him is in the moment and that it takes months (sometimes years) for a concept to sink into the point that he is able to access that information on his own w/o my reminding him. This helps me not to become frustrated with his behavior, but I don't always succeed and have my bad days too. There are some concepts that we have been "working" on for years that have shown no improvement/understanding, like toilet training, hitting, throwing things in anger, and getting in people's faces. I remind myself on a constant basis that there are wonderfully beautiful things about him that I wouldn't trade for the world and that b/c he cannot get the information from one part of his brain to the other in order to not hurt people that it is my responsibility to do it for him (by gently reminding him of the things that he's forgetting). Like your son, mine doesn't want to hurt/upset people and we have talks where he seems to understand that (for instance) he shouldn't rush right up and yell HELLO inches from someones nose, when the time comes it's like his excitment makes everything we talked about non-existent.
I continue to be compassionate and understanding that he is not like other kids, he needs my help to function socially. I have issues with this a lot of the time. I have 3 other kids who for the most part tollerate his differences with amazing understanding. I wish the rest of the world was so accepting! We have a lot of run-ins with kids that either won't have anything to do with him or become aggressive, for me this is so heartbreaking. He loves kids & he wants to play, yet, he is so inappropriate most kids won't even get past the yelling HELLO!
One last thing, when it comes to siblings..... I have spoken to them all and I think all but the 3 yr. old understands that when Chris starts to melt (hitting, screaming, etc.) that if I ask them to leave that it's not against them and that they are not being punished it's that I/we need some space to try and get him calmed down b/c sometimes moving him escalates the meltdown.
My hopes with unschooling him is that I can (through repetition and patience) help him to understand how to be considerate, kind, and accepting. Loving a child with differences like these is challenging and takes a considerable amount of self control. You have my best wishes.
Jennifer mom to Chrissy 19, Lacy 16, Chris 8, Amber 7, and Hayden 3
I continue to be compassionate and understanding that he is not like other kids, he needs my help to function socially. I have issues with this a lot of the time. I have 3 other kids who for the most part tollerate his differences with amazing understanding. I wish the rest of the world was so accepting! We have a lot of run-ins with kids that either won't have anything to do with him or become aggressive, for me this is so heartbreaking. He loves kids & he wants to play, yet, he is so inappropriate most kids won't even get past the yelling HELLO!
One last thing, when it comes to siblings..... I have spoken to them all and I think all but the 3 yr. old understands that when Chris starts to melt (hitting, screaming, etc.) that if I ask them to leave that it's not against them and that they are not being punished it's that I/we need some space to try and get him calmed down b/c sometimes moving him escalates the meltdown.
My hopes with unschooling him is that I can (through repetition and patience) help him to understand how to be considerate, kind, and accepting. Loving a child with differences like these is challenging and takes a considerable amount of self control. You have my best wishes.
Jennifer mom to Chrissy 19, Lacy 16, Chris 8, Amber 7, and Hayden 3
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelli Johnston
To: Unschooling Unschooling
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 3:59 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Maybe OT? aggression and disagreements-parenting compassionately
Hi, I was wondering if someone could help me with some ideas on how to help my son with aggressive or disrespectful reactions to his feelings (upset and happy). I read Sandra Dodd's piece on sibling fighting and I think it is mostly what we do already. But I am thinking more in regard to other children that we may or may not know.
Two situations that come up for us is when my son will throw dirt or rocks around himself for fun but they often hurt people inadvertantly. Sometimes he thinks it is funny to get a reaction from others too so it isn't all inadvertant. I normally go to him and tell him that he should be sure to not be near others that could get hurt by his actions or to be respectful of other's wishes when playing (some kids don't like to be splashed and some do-like him :O)). He will continue to do these things though ....over and over again even after every time I speak with him about it. Sometimes if I tell him to move to another place where he can throw rocks safely he will just shout "NO!" and laugh.
THe other situation is when he is extremely frustrated or upset, he is reaction is to hit and scream at....every one around him. We have told him and showed him how to release his anger on his pillow or to use specific words instead but it is still an on going struggle for him. He is getting really heavy now and removing him from situations is extremely difficult (say he is hitting his sister and won't stop fighting with her....lots of times it is to get her to go away from him so removing her first seems to be unfair?)....or once he held onto another girl in the water and she went under and freaked out. It was in play and he didn't realize it was dangerous but once I said to stop and helped her out of the water he didn't seem to understand the seriousness of the situation and swam off laughing. I kept asking him to talk to me about it and he refused.
He is on the spectrum so empathy, impulse and explosiveness has always been a challenge for him (and us) but it comes in waves....and we are in a wave!. He is almost 6 years old. I do a fair amount of preparation before we do anything.....reminding him of ways to be respectful of others and not hurt others in playdate settings. He acknowledges that he understands and seems empathetic while we are talking then but it all goes out the window when we are in the situation.Thanks!- Kelli
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Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 10, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Jennifer wrote:
saying he "is" it.
I realize that when a kid's behavior is very difficult to tolerate
that it can seem to overwhelm everything else about the kid and the
people around him/her can really start to think of the child as being
his/her "disorder." But, of all the people in the world, maybe at
least just his parents can be the holdouts - the ones who do not
"identify" him with the disorder, just see it as something he has.
PDD is "Pervasive Developmental Disorder" - it is sort of a catch-all
term for all kinds of developmental problems in communication and
social skills - including autism and other diagnoses. Really, what it
means is: This is a child who is having some sort of significant
trouble developing normal communication and social skills.
Anyway - it sounds like you're really struggling, Jennifer, and, by
mentioning the above, I don't mean to minimize the very real
challenges you're dealing with.
One general principle that is always true is that you have to start
where a child really is - support their strengths, support their
interests, support the best in them. Can you tell us some of the good
things about him - what he does well, what he is interested in doing,
and so on?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My son is PDDConsider changing your phrasing to say what it is he has, rather than
saying he "is" it.
I realize that when a kid's behavior is very difficult to tolerate
that it can seem to overwhelm everything else about the kid and the
people around him/her can really start to think of the child as being
his/her "disorder." But, of all the people in the world, maybe at
least just his parents can be the holdouts - the ones who do not
"identify" him with the disorder, just see it as something he has.
PDD is "Pervasive Developmental Disorder" - it is sort of a catch-all
term for all kinds of developmental problems in communication and
social skills - including autism and other diagnoses. Really, what it
means is: This is a child who is having some sort of significant
trouble developing normal communication and social skills.
Anyway - it sounds like you're really struggling, Jennifer, and, by
mentioning the above, I don't mean to minimize the very real
challenges you're dealing with.
One general principle that is always true is that you have to start
where a child really is - support their strengths, support their
interests, support the best in them. Can you tell us some of the good
things about him - what he does well, what he is interested in doing,
and so on?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~This is a child who is having some sort of significant
trouble developing normal communication and social skills.~~
Yes and eventually you can't tell them apart from children who had
amazing social skills much younger. It takes a LOT of patience and
proactive planning though.
In our case, we found that avoiding many social situations was better.
Even though my other children needed it, we would talk about how it
was going to affect Jalen and lots of times decided it wasn't worth
it. Other times I could completely BE with him while the other kids
were with their friends. Places like parks gave us plenty of room to
avoid other children.
If he wants to be with the other children though, that could be more
of a challenge. Jalen perceived other people as "brats" or "mean" when
they were behaving very normally, so avoiding them was easy since he
was usually pissed off at others anyway.:)
In groups, I had to be RIGHT next to him, or very close by listening
so I could avert any potential problems. Not that it always worked,
but most of the time I could remove him or distract quickly....we
talked about the situation away from the intense emotions. He couldn't
handle a discussion of any kind while he was angry or lashing out.
Mostly, we tried to do things with people that understood him and
could let me go handle things without giving it a lot of attention.
Spending time at certain friend's houses, or doing things in small
gropus. We still do a lot of that but lately he handles things
amazingly well. This has been a big year for us. I've gotten comments
from people about how much he's changed.
Empathy and impulsiveness are just like reading or any other skill a
person might have (or not have) a natural ability for. Some people
take longer to develop it, some need cues their entire lives. Labeling
it won't give that person better skills.
So beyond being proactive about our social choices, we also tried to
keep snacks readily available, give him a lot of time to adjust to
whatever activity is coming up (transitions are still huge for him)
and keep a lot of tools for physical activity around (trampoline,
skates etc..).
Fortunately, I have ways to work around him being home, which he
chooses most of the time. He prefers being here unless it's something
really fun. It can take some creative exploration to find ways to
support everyone, but trying to keep Jalen out of situations where he
won't be his best is part of it.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
trouble developing normal communication and social skills.~~
Yes and eventually you can't tell them apart from children who had
amazing social skills much younger. It takes a LOT of patience and
proactive planning though.
In our case, we found that avoiding many social situations was better.
Even though my other children needed it, we would talk about how it
was going to affect Jalen and lots of times decided it wasn't worth
it. Other times I could completely BE with him while the other kids
were with their friends. Places like parks gave us plenty of room to
avoid other children.
If he wants to be with the other children though, that could be more
of a challenge. Jalen perceived other people as "brats" or "mean" when
they were behaving very normally, so avoiding them was easy since he
was usually pissed off at others anyway.:)
In groups, I had to be RIGHT next to him, or very close by listening
so I could avert any potential problems. Not that it always worked,
but most of the time I could remove him or distract quickly....we
talked about the situation away from the intense emotions. He couldn't
handle a discussion of any kind while he was angry or lashing out.
Mostly, we tried to do things with people that understood him and
could let me go handle things without giving it a lot of attention.
Spending time at certain friend's houses, or doing things in small
gropus. We still do a lot of that but lately he handles things
amazingly well. This has been a big year for us. I've gotten comments
from people about how much he's changed.
Empathy and impulsiveness are just like reading or any other skill a
person might have (or not have) a natural ability for. Some people
take longer to develop it, some need cues their entire lives. Labeling
it won't give that person better skills.
So beyond being proactive about our social choices, we also tried to
keep snacks readily available, give him a lot of time to adjust to
whatever activity is coming up (transitions are still huge for him)
and keep a lot of tools for physical activity around (trampoline,
skates etc..).
Fortunately, I have ways to work around him being home, which he
chooses most of the time. He prefers being here unless it's something
really fun. It can take some creative exploration to find ways to
support everyone, but trying to keep Jalen out of situations where he
won't be his best is part of it.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
julie
--- In [email protected], Kelli Johnston
<KelliJohnston@...> wrote:
feelings (upset and happy).
Kelli
My daughter, now 16, had similar issues, and although we never had her
diagnosed I am sure was somewhere on the spectrum. She did not
realize that she was injuring people's feelings or person. She just
reacted quickly and aggressively when she was upset, or happy.
After trying many different ways to deal with it, what I found helped
the most was this....we made her a "ok/ not ok necklace"
Basically it was a piece of cardboard with red felt and a sad face on
one side, a green happy face on the other. She wore it most of the
time, and by displaying to us the red or green side, we were able to
know if she was ok, or not ok. She had very little verbal skills to
let us know how she felt, but this necklace made it extremly clear to
family and friends how she was feeling. And we could adjust accordingly.
On the red-not the time to engage in any kind of eating, dressing,
co-operative play, etc. Just leave her alone. On the green-puzzle
time, family time, eat get dressed, take a bath, etc. She was about
5,6 at the time we used this, and continued to use this on and off til
she was about 8. I would not say it helped her to learn to interact
with people, but it did help us to avoid the melt-downs with her, and
she learned to identify how she was feeling.
Maybe something like this could help you too.
<KelliJohnston@...> wrote:
>to help my son with aggressive or disrespectful reactions to his
>
> Hi, I was wondering if someone could help me with some ideas on how
feelings (upset and happy).
Kelli
My daughter, now 16, had similar issues, and although we never had her
diagnosed I am sure was somewhere on the spectrum. She did not
realize that she was injuring people's feelings or person. She just
reacted quickly and aggressively when she was upset, or happy.
After trying many different ways to deal with it, what I found helped
the most was this....we made her a "ok/ not ok necklace"
Basically it was a piece of cardboard with red felt and a sad face on
one side, a green happy face on the other. She wore it most of the
time, and by displaying to us the red or green side, we were able to
know if she was ok, or not ok. She had very little verbal skills to
let us know how she felt, but this necklace made it extremly clear to
family and friends how she was feeling. And we could adjust accordingly.
On the red-not the time to engage in any kind of eating, dressing,
co-operative play, etc. Just leave her alone. On the green-puzzle
time, family time, eat get dressed, take a bath, etc. She was about
5,6 at the time we used this, and continued to use this on and off til
she was about 8. I would not say it helped her to learn to interact
with people, but it did help us to avoid the melt-downs with her, and
she learned to identify how she was feeling.
Maybe something like this could help you too.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 10, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Kelli Johnston wrote:
he needs stopped. Yeah, I know, simplistic, but stop thinking in
terms of convincing him. He really can't apply what he's hearing in
the moment.
I suspect your words in the moment are sounding like the Charlie
Brown "Wah wah wah."
Have you brought the scenario up far removed from the situation and
asked *him* for solutions? Don't think of his solutions as an
agreement. It's not something he will succeed or fail at. It's a
solution that will either work or not work. It's just something to
try. And if it doesn't work, then you talk about it again (away from
the situation) and have him offer something else. And ask him what
you should do if he doesn't respond to his solution in the moment.
Tell him you need to make sure everyone is safe. (Don't imply safe
from him. Just safe. You're keeping him safe too! Safe from a child
retaliating!)
(In other words, don't arrive at the next situation with an
attitude of "Remember, you agreed to do such and such." Though do go
over the solution he wants to try out and what he should expect you
to do if it doesn't work.)
Work *with* him on a solution rather than trying to impose a solution
on him.
Until you come up with something, he shouldn't be around kids. That's
not a punishment. It's a reality. If a child isn't ready to not run
toward the street, we shouldn't put them in situations where they
could run to the street.
Trust that he *can* figure it out. Let him try social situations when
he feels he's ready. He *will* grow and change. He *should*
constantly be testing his abilities to see if he's grown into being
able to do what he wants to do in a safe way. Sometimes he will guess
wrong. It's okay. IT just means it's time to help him reassess what
went wrong and tweak the solution or come up with something else.
(Obviously easier for some kids than others.) Keep reassuring him
that you want to help him figure out a way to do what he wants in a
way that's safe for everyone.
I know that's lots of philosophy and not much practical, but it will
help you find solutions if you can turn your thinking around from
training him to act as he should to helping him figure out ways to do
what he wants without stepping on toes to get it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I normally go to him and tell him that he should be sure to not beIf an explanation doesn't stop him from potentially hurting someone,
> near others that could get hurt by his actions or to be respectful
> of other's wishes when playing (some kids don't like to be splashed
> and some do-like him :O)). He will continue to do these things though
he needs stopped. Yeah, I know, simplistic, but stop thinking in
terms of convincing him. He really can't apply what he's hearing in
the moment.
I suspect your words in the moment are sounding like the Charlie
Brown "Wah wah wah."
Have you brought the scenario up far removed from the situation and
asked *him* for solutions? Don't think of his solutions as an
agreement. It's not something he will succeed or fail at. It's a
solution that will either work or not work. It's just something to
try. And if it doesn't work, then you talk about it again (away from
the situation) and have him offer something else. And ask him what
you should do if he doesn't respond to his solution in the moment.
Tell him you need to make sure everyone is safe. (Don't imply safe
from him. Just safe. You're keeping him safe too! Safe from a child
retaliating!)
(In other words, don't arrive at the next situation with an
attitude of "Remember, you agreed to do such and such." Though do go
over the solution he wants to try out and what he should expect you
to do if it doesn't work.)
Work *with* him on a solution rather than trying to impose a solution
on him.
Until you come up with something, he shouldn't be around kids. That's
not a punishment. It's a reality. If a child isn't ready to not run
toward the street, we shouldn't put them in situations where they
could run to the street.
Trust that he *can* figure it out. Let him try social situations when
he feels he's ready. He *will* grow and change. He *should*
constantly be testing his abilities to see if he's grown into being
able to do what he wants to do in a safe way. Sometimes he will guess
wrong. It's okay. IT just means it's time to help him reassess what
went wrong and tweak the solution or come up with something else.
(Obviously easier for some kids than others.) Keep reassuring him
that you want to help him figure out a way to do what he wants in a
way that's safe for everyone.
I know that's lots of philosophy and not much practical, but it will
help you find solutions if you can turn your thinking around from
training him to act as he should to helping him figure out ways to do
what he wants without stepping on toes to get it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Johnston
I view our parenting as far removed from training as possible but I do hope that he accesses his "tool box" in order to make better choices. I give him ideas removed from the situation (before or after the fact) but in the situation he isn't receptive to hearing me....its not scolding in any way....just options to help him handle his feelings. I just don't want to remove him from situations all the time because he is so heavy now that it is a struggle and almost physically impossible.Also, it hasn't helped our relationship or his self esteem to do that. I was hoping someone had advice on help in using key words or something simple that would help him generalize? Or asking questions? I am not the best in "to the point" communication so I am sure part of his not "listening" could be because of the way I am talking to him. Kelli
To: [email protected]: jfetteroll@...: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:14:51 -0400Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Maybe OT? aggression and disagreements-parenting compassionately
On Jun 10, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Kelli Johnston wrote:> I normally go to him and tell him that he should be sure to not be > near others that could get hurt by his actions or to be respectful > of other's wishes when playing (some kids don't like to be splashed > and some do-like him :O)). He will continue to do these things thoughIf an explanation doesn't stop him from potentially hurting someone, he needs stopped. Yeah, I know, simplistic, but stop thinking in terms of convincing him. He really can't apply what he's hearing in the moment.I suspect your words in the moment are sounding like the Charlie Brown "Wah wah wah."Have you brought the scenario up far removed from the situation and asked *him* for solutions? Don't think of his solutions as an agreement. It's not something he will succeed or fail at. It's a solution that will either work or not work. It's just something to try. And if it doesn't work, then you talk about it again (away from the situation) and have him offer something else. And ask him what you should do if he doesn't respond to his solution in the moment. Tell him you need to make sure everyone is safe. (Don't imply safe from him. Just safe. You're keeping him safe too! Safe from a child retaliating!)(In other words, don't arrive at the next situation with an attitude of "Remember, you agreed to do such and such." Though do go over the solution he wants to try out and what he should expect you to do if it doesn't work.)Work *with* him on a solution rather than trying to impose a solution on him.Until you come up with something, he shouldn't be around kids. That's not a punishment. It's a reality. If a child isn't ready to not run toward the street, we shouldn't put them in situations where they could run to the street.Trust that he *can* figure it out. Let him try social situations when he feels he's ready. He *will* grow and change. He *should* constantly be testing his abilities to see if he's grown into being able to do what he wants to do in a safe way. Sometimes he will guess wrong. It's okay. IT just means it's time to help him reassess what went wrong and tweak the solution or come up with something else. (Obviously easier for some kids than others.) Keep reassuring him that you want to help him figure out a way to do what he wants in a way that's safe for everyone.I know that's lots of philosophy and not much practical, but it will help you find solutions if you can turn your thinking around from training him to act as he should to helping him figure out ways to do what he wants without stepping on toes to get it.Joyce[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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To: [email protected]: jfetteroll@...: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:14:51 -0400Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Maybe OT? aggression and disagreements-parenting compassionately
On Jun 10, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Kelli Johnston wrote:> I normally go to him and tell him that he should be sure to not be > near others that could get hurt by his actions or to be respectful > of other's wishes when playing (some kids don't like to be splashed > and some do-like him :O)). He will continue to do these things thoughIf an explanation doesn't stop him from potentially hurting someone, he needs stopped. Yeah, I know, simplistic, but stop thinking in terms of convincing him. He really can't apply what he's hearing in the moment.I suspect your words in the moment are sounding like the Charlie Brown "Wah wah wah."Have you brought the scenario up far removed from the situation and asked *him* for solutions? Don't think of his solutions as an agreement. It's not something he will succeed or fail at. It's a solution that will either work or not work. It's just something to try. And if it doesn't work, then you talk about it again (away from the situation) and have him offer something else. And ask him what you should do if he doesn't respond to his solution in the moment. Tell him you need to make sure everyone is safe. (Don't imply safe from him. Just safe. You're keeping him safe too! Safe from a child retaliating!)(In other words, don't arrive at the next situation with an attitude of "Remember, you agreed to do such and such." Though do go over the solution he wants to try out and what he should expect you to do if it doesn't work.)Work *with* him on a solution rather than trying to impose a solution on him.Until you come up with something, he shouldn't be around kids. That's not a punishment. It's a reality. If a child isn't ready to not run toward the street, we shouldn't put them in situations where they could run to the street.Trust that he *can* figure it out. Let him try social situations when he feels he's ready. He *will* grow and change. He *should* constantly be testing his abilities to see if he's grown into being able to do what he wants to do in a safe way. Sometimes he will guess wrong. It's okay. IT just means it's time to help him reassess what went wrong and tweak the solution or come up with something else. (Obviously easier for some kids than others.) Keep reassuring him that you want to help him figure out a way to do what he wants in a way that's safe for everyone.I know that's lots of philosophy and not much practical, but it will help you find solutions if you can turn your thinking around from training him to act as he should to helping him figure out ways to do what he wants without stepping on toes to get it.Joyce[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 11, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Kelli Johnston wrote:
upon in advance.
For example, you and he agree that sometimes he feels out of control
and that feels pretty bad for him. You agree to help him by keeping an
eye out for signs that that might be about to happen and to signal him
so that he can very quickly move away from the situation.
It would be a "back off" signal.
Role play the use of it - set up typical scenarios in which he is
likely to lose his cool. Have him practice how he'll back off when he
hears the code word or sees the signal. He might say, "I need to back
off," out loud, as he moves away.
You have to be near and aware enough to use the code word and/or signal.
-pam
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> I was hoping someone had advice on help in using key words orYou might be able to use some code words or signals that you've agreed
> something simple that would help him generalize? Or asking
> questions? I am not the best in "to the point" communication so I am
> sure part of his not "listening" could be because of the way I am
> talking to him. Kelli
upon in advance.
For example, you and he agree that sometimes he feels out of control
and that feels pretty bad for him. You agree to help him by keeping an
eye out for signs that that might be about to happen and to signal him
so that he can very quickly move away from the situation.
It would be a "back off" signal.
Role play the use of it - set up typical scenarios in which he is
likely to lose his cool. Have him practice how he'll back off when he
hears the code word or sees the signal. He might say, "I need to back
off," out loud, as he moves away.
You have to be near and aware enough to use the code word and/or signal.
-pam
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Kelli Johnston
hmmm thanks pam! I will have to think about it and figure out how to approach him in a way he will understand.Kelli
To: [email protected]: pamsoroosh@...: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:37:23 -0700Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Maybe OT? aggression and disagreements-parenting compassionately
On Jun 11, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Kelli Johnston wrote:> I was hoping someone had advice on help in using key words or > something simple that would help him generalize? Or asking > questions? I am not the best in "to the point" communication so I am > sure part of his not "listening" could be because of the way I am > talking to him. KelliYou might be able to use some code words or signals that you've agreed upon in advance.For example, you and he agree that sometimes he feels out of control and that feels pretty bad for him. You agree to help him by keeping an eye out for signs that that might be about to happen and to signal him so that he can very quickly move away from the situation.It would be a "back off" signal.Role play the use of it - set up typical scenarios in which he is likely to lose his cool. Have him practice how he'll back off when he hears the code word or sees the signal. He might say, "I need to back off," out loud, as he moves away.You have to be near and aware enough to use the code word and/or signal.-pam[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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To: [email protected]: pamsoroosh@...: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:37:23 -0700Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Maybe OT? aggression and disagreements-parenting compassionately
On Jun 11, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Kelli Johnston wrote:> I was hoping someone had advice on help in using key words or > something simple that would help him generalize? Or asking > questions? I am not the best in "to the point" communication so I am > sure part of his not "listening" could be because of the way I am > talking to him. KelliYou might be able to use some code words or signals that you've agreed upon in advance.For example, you and he agree that sometimes he feels out of control and that feels pretty bad for him. You agree to help him by keeping an eye out for signs that that might be about to happen and to signal him so that he can very quickly move away from the situation.It would be a "back off" signal.Role play the use of it - set up typical scenarios in which he is likely to lose his cool. Have him practice how he'll back off when he hears the code word or sees the signal. He might say, "I need to back off," out loud, as he moves away.You have to be near and aware enough to use the code word and/or signal.-pam[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Kelli Johnston
Thanks Julie!
He is very expressive about his feelings...even when he is extremely upset he is telling me and others....but it isn't productive and sometimes pretty hurtful. This idea is great because I think it makes me realize that I might just need to either read his cues a little better and help his sister or other children read and respect his cues AND words. I mean a lot of the upset aggressive behavior comes after he has told them to go away multiple times but they don't listen. I just think he should also learn to walk away instead of resorting to physical means, you know?Kelli
To: [email protected]: brihanna@...: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:34:10 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Maybe OT? aggression and disagreements-parenting compassionately
--- In [email protected], Kelli Johnston<KelliJohnston@...> wrote:>> > Hi, I was wondering if someone could help me with some ideas on howto help my son with aggressive or disrespectful reactions to hisfeelings (upset and happy). KelliMy daughter, now 16, had similar issues, and although we never had herdiagnosed I am sure was somewhere on the spectrum. She did notrealize that she was injuring people's feelings or person. She justreacted quickly and aggressively when she was upset, or happy. After trying many different ways to deal with it, what I found helpedthe most was this....we made her a "ok/ not ok necklace"Basically it was a piece of cardboard with red felt and a sad face onone side, a green happy face on the other. She wore it most of thetime, and by displaying to us the red or green side, we were able toknow if she was ok, or not ok. She had very little verbal skills tolet us know how she felt, but this necklace made it extremly clear tofamily and friends how she was feeling. And we could adjust accordingly.On the red-not the time to engage in any kind of eating, dressing,co-operative play, etc. Just leave her alone. On the green-puzzletime, family time, eat get dressed, take a bath, etc. She was about5,6 at the time we used this, and continued to use this on and off tilshe was about 8. I would not say it helped her to learn to interactwith people, but it did help us to avoid the melt-downs with her, andshe learned to identify how she was feeling. Maybe something like this could help you too.
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He is very expressive about his feelings...even when he is extremely upset he is telling me and others....but it isn't productive and sometimes pretty hurtful. This idea is great because I think it makes me realize that I might just need to either read his cues a little better and help his sister or other children read and respect his cues AND words. I mean a lot of the upset aggressive behavior comes after he has told them to go away multiple times but they don't listen. I just think he should also learn to walk away instead of resorting to physical means, you know?Kelli
To: [email protected]: brihanna@...: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:34:10 +0000Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Maybe OT? aggression and disagreements-parenting compassionately
--- In [email protected], Kelli Johnston<KelliJohnston@...> wrote:>> > Hi, I was wondering if someone could help me with some ideas on howto help my son with aggressive or disrespectful reactions to hisfeelings (upset and happy). KelliMy daughter, now 16, had similar issues, and although we never had herdiagnosed I am sure was somewhere on the spectrum. She did notrealize that she was injuring people's feelings or person. She justreacted quickly and aggressively when she was upset, or happy. After trying many different ways to deal with it, what I found helpedthe most was this....we made her a "ok/ not ok necklace"Basically it was a piece of cardboard with red felt and a sad face onone side, a green happy face on the other. She wore it most of thetime, and by displaying to us the red or green side, we were able toknow if she was ok, or not ok. She had very little verbal skills tolet us know how she felt, but this necklace made it extremly clear tofamily and friends how she was feeling. And we could adjust accordingly.On the red-not the time to engage in any kind of eating, dressing,co-operative play, etc. Just leave her alone. On the green-puzzletime, family time, eat get dressed, take a bath, etc. She was about5,6 at the time we used this, and continued to use this on and off tilshe was about 8. I would not say it helped her to learn to interactwith people, but it did help us to avoid the melt-downs with her, andshe learned to identify how she was feeling. Maybe something like this could help you too.
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