Now: Risk Assessment (Was: ...OK to eat butter)
Lisa
Many thanks to everyone who posted about eating butter! I feel better
now about joyfully supporting future condiment requests!
Being new to RU, saying "yes" isn't quite instinctive. I'm still
thinking a lot about some issues. I feel slow with my risk analysis
about whether certain requests/actions constitute a real danger or
not. I hope, with time, this will be a quicker process as I learn to
recognize old recordings and replace them with reasoning. My initial
response when I'm unsure tends to be cautious, as I don't want to
say "yes" and then later reconsider and say "no" to the same request.
That inconsistency seems worse than changing an initial "no" to
a "yes" after I think through the issue and decide that its OK. But,
as I reread this, the "say no first" option sounds a lot like
traditional parenting/leadership: start tough then ease the
restrictions. Maybe, since both options end with me being
inconsistent, it is better to say "yes" first and stop the activity
if it appears risky. Aaaahhhhh! Maybe I'm overanalyzing....
The current hot issue is the boys' (6 & 7) desire to shoot toy dart
guns whenever they want, without need for parental supervision. DH
worries because they currently lack the hand strength to operate the
gun smoothly, which results in a certain amount of waving around
while trying to cock the gun. This waving around could result in one
boy shooting the other by accident. DH has great concern about eye
damage. The darts are a NERF variety - 2-3" long, foam tube, with
rubber suction cup tip.
OK... with echoes of "You'll shoot your eye out" reverberating in my
head, I need advice/opinions on how you all handle risk assessment
for new activities like this one.
Thanks again! Lisa
now about joyfully supporting future condiment requests!
Being new to RU, saying "yes" isn't quite instinctive. I'm still
thinking a lot about some issues. I feel slow with my risk analysis
about whether certain requests/actions constitute a real danger or
not. I hope, with time, this will be a quicker process as I learn to
recognize old recordings and replace them with reasoning. My initial
response when I'm unsure tends to be cautious, as I don't want to
say "yes" and then later reconsider and say "no" to the same request.
That inconsistency seems worse than changing an initial "no" to
a "yes" after I think through the issue and decide that its OK. But,
as I reread this, the "say no first" option sounds a lot like
traditional parenting/leadership: start tough then ease the
restrictions. Maybe, since both options end with me being
inconsistent, it is better to say "yes" first and stop the activity
if it appears risky. Aaaahhhhh! Maybe I'm overanalyzing....
The current hot issue is the boys' (6 & 7) desire to shoot toy dart
guns whenever they want, without need for parental supervision. DH
worries because they currently lack the hand strength to operate the
gun smoothly, which results in a certain amount of waving around
while trying to cock the gun. This waving around could result in one
boy shooting the other by accident. DH has great concern about eye
damage. The darts are a NERF variety - 2-3" long, foam tube, with
rubber suction cup tip.
OK... with echoes of "You'll shoot your eye out" reverberating in my
head, I need advice/opinions on how you all handle risk assessment
for new activities like this one.
Thanks again! Lisa
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 5, 2008, at 2:22 PM, Lisa wrote:
guys do to make it safer?"
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I say: "Okay - this is REALLY fun but also kind of risky. What can you
> OK... with echoes of "You'll shoot your eye out" reverberating in my
> head, I need advice/opinions on how you all handle risk assessment
> for new activities like this one.
guys do to make it safer?"
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Carron Armstrong
I know just the darts you're talking about. A few years ago, my son had a
machine gun version with lots of those little yellow tubes. Had them flying
all over the house. I can't recall a single accident, though. I seem to
recall that somebody would have to be right up on the gun (and positioned
just so) when the trigger was pulled for it to pose any real problem.
Maybe the boys would like to wear safety goggles. They cost next to nothing
at the hardware store. Or swim goggles.
Carron
machine gun version with lots of those little yellow tubes. Had them flying
all over the house. I can't recall a single accident, though. I seem to
recall that somebody would have to be right up on the gun (and positioned
just so) when the trigger was pulled for it to pose any real problem.
Maybe the boys would like to wear safety goggles. They cost next to nothing
at the hardware store. Or swim goggles.
Carron
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 4:22 PM, Lisa <lrowx001@...> wrote:
> Many thanks to everyone who posted about eating butter! I feel better
> now about joyfully supporting future condiment requests!
>
> Being new to RU, saying "yes" isn't quite instinctive. I'm still
> thinking a lot about some issues. I feel slow with my risk analysis
> about whether certain requests/actions constitute a real danger or
> not. I hope, with time, this will be a quicker process as I learn to
> recognize old recordings and replace them with reasoning. My initial
> response when I'm unsure tends to be cautious, as I don't want to
> say "yes" and then later reconsider and say "no" to the same request.
> That inconsistency seems worse than changing an initial "no" to
> a "yes" after I think through the issue and decide that its OK. But,
> as I reread this, the "say no first" option sounds a lot like
> traditional parenting/leadership: start tough then ease the
> restrictions. Maybe, since both options end with me being
> inconsistent, it is better to say "yes" first and stop the activity
> if it appears risky. Aaaahhhhh! Maybe I'm overanalyzing....
>
> The current hot issue is the boys' (6 & 7) desire to shoot toy dart
> guns whenever they want, without need for parental supervision. DH
> worries because they currently lack the hand strength to operate the
> gun smoothly, which results in a certain amount of waving around
> while trying to cock the gun. This waving around could result in one
> boy shooting the other by accident. DH has great concern about eye
> damage. The darts are a NERF variety - 2-3" long, foam tube, with
> rubber suction cup tip.
>
> OK... with echoes of "You'll shoot your eye out" reverberating in my
> head, I need advice/opinions on how you all handle risk assessment
> for new activities like this one.
>
> Thanks again! Lisa
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
swissarmy_wife
> The current hot issue is the boys' (6 & 7) desire to shoot toy dartIsn't this the point of Nerf Dart Guns?
> guns whenever they want, without need for parental supervision. DH
> worries because they currently lack the hand strength to operate the
> gun smoothly, which results in a certain amount of waving around
> while trying to cock the gun. This waving around could result in one
> boy shooting the other by accident.
>DH has great concern about eyeMy children have had all sort of dart gun varieties. They still have
> damage. The darts are a NERF variety - 2-3" long, foam tube, with
> rubber suction cup tip.
eyes. <BWG>
> OK... with echoes of "You'll shoot your eye out" reverberating in myGoggles. My kids would actually feel cool wearing safety goggles!
> head, I need advice/opinions on how you all handle risk assessment
> for new activities like this one.
Maybe that would help you? Still, I don't think there is much to
worry about with Nerf darts.
Zoa Conner
How about some cool glasses to wear when they play with the guns? Some
images of folks at a firing range wearing eye protection might inspire your
kids to find their own.
Zoa
images of folks at a firing range wearing eye protection might inspire your
kids to find their own.
Zoa
On 6/5/08 5:22 PM, "Lisa" <lrowx001@...> wrote:
> The current hot issue is the boys' (6 & 7) desire to shoot toy dart
> guns whenever they want, without need for parental supervision. DH
> worries because they currently lack the hand strength to operate the
> gun smoothly, which results in a certain amount of waving around
> while trying to cock the gun. This waving around could result in one
> boy shooting the other by accident. DH has great concern about eye
> damage. The darts are a NERF variety - 2-3" long, foam tube, with
> rubber suction cup tip.
>
> OK... with echoes of "You'll shoot your eye out" reverberating in my
> head, I need advice/opinions on how you all handle risk assessment
> for new activities like this one.
>
> Thanks again! Lisa
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa
My son has some of the Nerf guns you mentioned... while I doubt that
eye damage could really result it would probably hurt and perhaps if
it hit just right damage "could" result. It's sort of one of those
things that you are conflicted about living in "fear" of an injury but
thinking it's not such a big deal but you would feel horrible if
someone got hurt etc.... I have that same feeling about some of the
activities my son likes! Anyway I wonder if you could just pick up
a pack of those safety glasses that Sam's club and other places sell
for not much money (you could likely buy a single pair here or there
but having a pack would be nice for when friends are over) you could
offer the glasses up as a preventative measure after discussing your
concerns that (or your husband's concerns!) they may become injured.
I have asked my children to wear bike helmets, skateboarding helmets,
riding helmets etc even before we ever lived in a town that had a law
regarding such things because of the real possibility of significant
injury to their head/brains etc. I have always detested it when
people tell their kids they are going to crack their heads open etc
etc to instill fear of injury. I think it's much better to be very
honest that certain things we like to do involve a certain amount of
risk and if there is a simple thing we can do to safeguard our health
against those things perhaps we should consider it (outside of things
that are city ordinances and laws that we don't have choice about
adhering to) My son played football this year for the first time and
was required to wear a mouthguard. At first he hated the thought of
it and hated the way it felt. Since this was not optional we bought
several and tried until we found one that he felt more comfortable
with. I could have forced him to wear the one that made him gag but
truly what would I have gained? Once we found one he liked he didn't
have a problem with it (and even found it cool after awhile!).
Hope this helps!
Lisa B
eye damage could really result it would probably hurt and perhaps if
it hit just right damage "could" result. It's sort of one of those
things that you are conflicted about living in "fear" of an injury but
thinking it's not such a big deal but you would feel horrible if
someone got hurt etc.... I have that same feeling about some of the
activities my son likes! Anyway I wonder if you could just pick up
a pack of those safety glasses that Sam's club and other places sell
for not much money (you could likely buy a single pair here or there
but having a pack would be nice for when friends are over) you could
offer the glasses up as a preventative measure after discussing your
concerns that (or your husband's concerns!) they may become injured.
I have asked my children to wear bike helmets, skateboarding helmets,
riding helmets etc even before we ever lived in a town that had a law
regarding such things because of the real possibility of significant
injury to their head/brains etc. I have always detested it when
people tell their kids they are going to crack their heads open etc
etc to instill fear of injury. I think it's much better to be very
honest that certain things we like to do involve a certain amount of
risk and if there is a simple thing we can do to safeguard our health
against those things perhaps we should consider it (outside of things
that are city ordinances and laws that we don't have choice about
adhering to) My son played football this year for the first time and
was required to wear a mouthguard. At first he hated the thought of
it and hated the way it felt. Since this was not optional we bought
several and tried until we found one that he felt more comfortable
with. I could have forced him to wear the one that made him gag but
truly what would I have gained? Once we found one he liked he didn't
have a problem with it (and even found it cool after awhile!).
Hope this helps!
Lisa B
Lisa
Lisa B,
You're right, this is an issue that makes us conflicted. The
likelihood of injury seems remote, yet we only get one set of eyes
and they are delicate. DS1 had eye surgery already, so we may be more
worried than we might otherwise be.
Your analogy to bike helmets actually is very helpful. We do ask the
boys to wear helmets for the same reason - brain injury is very
serious.
Thanks for the perspective. It makes a lot of sense.
Cheers! Lisa R.
--- In [email protected], "Lisa" <jlblock01@...>
wrote:
but you would feel horrible if someone got hurt etc....
... you could offer the glasses up as a preventative measure after
discussing your concerns that (or your husband's concerns!) they may
become injured.
had a law regarding such things because of the real possibility of
significant injury to their head/brains etc.
You're right, this is an issue that makes us conflicted. The
likelihood of injury seems remote, yet we only get one set of eyes
and they are delicate. DS1 had eye surgery already, so we may be more
worried than we might otherwise be.
Your analogy to bike helmets actually is very helpful. We do ask the
boys to wear helmets for the same reason - brain injury is very
serious.
Thanks for the perspective. It makes a lot of sense.
Cheers! Lisa R.
--- In [email protected], "Lisa" <jlblock01@...>
wrote:
> It's sort of one of those things that you are conflicted aboutliving in "fear" of an injury but thinking it's not such a big deal
but you would feel horrible if someone got hurt etc....
... you could offer the glasses up as a preventative measure after
discussing your concerns that (or your husband's concerns!) they may
become injured.
> I have asked my children to wear bike helmets, skateboardinghelmets, riding helmets etc even before we ever lived in a town that
had a law regarding such things because of the real possibility of
significant injury to their head/brains etc.
> Hope this helps!
> Lisa B
>
Debra Rossing
We actually got a Nerf set a year or so ago that has Velcro edged Nerf
darts and a vest that they stick to and it comes with safety goggles. DS
got another half dozen DIFFERENT forms of Nerf dart guns for his
birthday last week. It's REALLY hard to hurt a human with them. The same
wobbliness that causes the gun to waver around while pumping it up also
makes it really hard to get the kind of close up direct hit that might
possibly damage a face. We've got the machine gun one - DH is the only
one who uses it most of the time, because it takes way to much arm
strength/time to pump it (DS is 10 and can't handle it). DS' current
favorite he got this weekend - instead of pumping it's more of a slide
action to cock the thing (think pump action shot gun) - no air
resistance to pump up. He also got a 'skeet' type set that fires disks
into the air to be shot with the Nerf gun. We do have basic rules of
engagement - not in the living room (too many things that might get
knocked down AND too many places to lose darts under and behind); point
weapons down while in motion; aim only for torsos (mis-aimed shots that
start out aimed at a torso rarely him a face, they tend to either
totally miss or they hit an arm or leg more than a face) or targets; if
you need to take a break (potty, water, etc) you put your weapon down on
the ground/floor so that there's no mistaking whether you're a suitable
target, anyone carrying a weapon is presumed to be a willing participant
and a viable target for any battle game that is in progress. We've yet
to have any injuries even with DH involved (he has the arm strength and
aiming skill to hit the targets at a good range BUT Nerf stuff catches
every stray bit of air and tend to lose momentum pretty quickly).
Deb
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darts and a vest that they stick to and it comes with safety goggles. DS
got another half dozen DIFFERENT forms of Nerf dart guns for his
birthday last week. It's REALLY hard to hurt a human with them. The same
wobbliness that causes the gun to waver around while pumping it up also
makes it really hard to get the kind of close up direct hit that might
possibly damage a face. We've got the machine gun one - DH is the only
one who uses it most of the time, because it takes way to much arm
strength/time to pump it (DS is 10 and can't handle it). DS' current
favorite he got this weekend - instead of pumping it's more of a slide
action to cock the thing (think pump action shot gun) - no air
resistance to pump up. He also got a 'skeet' type set that fires disks
into the air to be shot with the Nerf gun. We do have basic rules of
engagement - not in the living room (too many things that might get
knocked down AND too many places to lose darts under and behind); point
weapons down while in motion; aim only for torsos (mis-aimed shots that
start out aimed at a torso rarely him a face, they tend to either
totally miss or they hit an arm or leg more than a face) or targets; if
you need to take a break (potty, water, etc) you put your weapon down on
the ground/floor so that there's no mistaking whether you're a suitable
target, anyone carrying a weapon is presumed to be a willing participant
and a viable target for any battle game that is in progress. We've yet
to have any injuries even with DH involved (he has the arm strength and
aiming skill to hit the targets at a good range BUT Nerf stuff catches
every stray bit of air and tend to lose momentum pretty quickly).
Deb
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa
Hi Deb,
Thanks for the info and the rules of engagement! I think Jim will
enjoy reading this post, and maybe it will give him ideas for how we
can incorporate the NERF guns into everyday play so that everyone is
comfortable. Sounds like you all have thought a lot about this - or
refined the gun play rules from experience!
The boys are presently immersing themselves in "The Incredibles" and
are loving being superheroes! In addition to running really fast
around the house like Dash, they would love using the NERF guns to
kill the bad guys.
We had our first sword accident the other day when one of the boys
accidentally knocked over a glass and it shattered. So I think they
will understand why certain rooms are "off limits" for gun play!
Cheers! Lisa
--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing"
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
Thanks for the info and the rules of engagement! I think Jim will
enjoy reading this post, and maybe it will give him ideas for how we
can incorporate the NERF guns into everyday play so that everyone is
comfortable. Sounds like you all have thought a lot about this - or
refined the gun play rules from experience!
The boys are presently immersing themselves in "The Incredibles" and
are loving being superheroes! In addition to running really fast
around the house like Dash, they would love using the NERF guns to
kill the bad guys.
We had our first sword accident the other day when one of the boys
accidentally knocked over a glass and it shattered. So I think they
will understand why certain rooms are "off limits" for gun play!
Cheers! Lisa
--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing"
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>We do have basic rules of
> engagement - not in the living room (too many things that might getpoint
> knocked down AND too many places to lose darts under and behind);
> weapons down while in motion; aim only for torsos (mis-aimed shotsthat
> start out aimed at a torso rarely him a face, they tend to eithertargets; if
> totally miss or they hit an arm or leg more than a face) or
> you need to take a break (potty, water, etc) you put your weapondown on
> the ground/floor so that there's no mistaking whether you're asuitable
> target, anyone carrying a weapon is presumed to be a willingparticipant
> and a viable target for any battle game that is in progress. We'veyet
> to have any injuries even with DH involved (he has the arm strengthand
> aiming skill to hit the targets at a good range BUT Nerf stuffcatches
> every stray bit of air and tend to lose momentum pretty quickly).
>
> Deb