Lisa

Actually, it is margarine (with no trans fat)....

We are new to RU. We are working hard to give the boys (6 & 7) food
autonomy. When they ask for something that seems unusual to me, I
question my own hesitation and usually my concerns are groundless -
old recordings in my head. I've gotten past cake for breakfast,
limitless candy and popsicles, and even drinking the salad dressing
that comes in the little cups at the restaurant.

Recently, one of the boys said he was hungry. I asked what he wanted
to eat. He said butter. I said I wasn't comfortable with him just
eating butter so he asked for a hotdog bun with butter. Later I asked
myself "What difference does it make whether he eats the butter on
bread or by itself?" And I can't think of a reason why he ought not
eat butter (margarine) by the spoonful, or salad dressing, which was
requested in close proximity to the butter. Actually, I can see how
he might want to taste the condiment without the flavor distraction
of another food.

So I'd like to know whether anyone else has dealt with this, or a
similar food (condiment) issue, and how you handled it. I have
visions of handing him a spoonful of margarine, or a pat of butter,
or a bowl of salad dressing. But an old recording inside of me makes
me hesitate. It says, what if he eats it and wants another, and
another, and another. Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
dressing until they have had their fill? Or would I somehow be
negligent to support this desire. Please help.

Thanks! Lisa

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Lisa <lrowx001@...> wrote: Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
dressing until they have had their fill? Or would I somehow be
negligent to support this desire. Please help._,___
-=-=-=-=---=-=-=--------------===-=---==-=-=-----


Why would it not be OK?

I actually prefer real butter to margarine. Both my kids loved to eat butter. They would just grab a stick, open and take a few bites.
Its food.
It will not hurt them. There is nothing that says you can only eat butter with bread.
If it tastes good to them...hey!
It is a child's job to taste and try new foods and textures.
Let it go<BWG>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ulrike Haupt

Butter or some other fatty substance (real butter works best!) desire may be the request from the body to givethe gallbaldder he ok to start doing its thing.That is what often, after a meal with mainly starches helps me to feel 'done' with a meal. Other peole 'need' a sweet to get this feeling of being done as happens when the digestion juices begin their job.
It is only a spoonful that does the trick, really!

Blissing
Ulrike
from Namibia -somewhere in Africa
Ps why make a big deal out of it?


----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Is it OK to... let them eat butter?


Actually, it is margarine (with no trans fat)....

We are new to RU. We are working hard to give the boys (6 & 7) food
autonomy. When they ask for something that seems unusual to me, I
question my own hesitation and usually my concerns are groundless -
old recordings in my head. I've gotten past cake for breakfast,
limitless candy and popsicles, and even drinking the salad dressing
that comes in the little cups at the restaurant.

Recently, one of the boys said he was hungry. I asked what he wanted
to eat. He said butter. I said I wasn't comfortable with him just
eating butter so he asked for a hotdog bun with butter. Later I asked
myself "What difference does it make whether he eats the butter on
bread or by itself?" And I can't think of a reason why he ought not
eat butter (margarine) by the spoonful, or salad dressing, which was
requested in close proximity to the butter. Actually, I can see how
he might want to taste the condiment without the flavor distraction
of another food.

So I'd like to know whether anyone else has dealt with this, or a
similar food (condiment) issue, and how you handled it. I have
visions of handing him a spoonful of margarine, or a pat of butter,
or a bowl of salad dressing. But an old recording inside of me makes
me hesitate. It says, what if he eats it and wants another, and
another, and another. Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
dressing until they have had their fill? Or would I somehow be
negligent to support this desire. Please help.

Thanks! Lisa





__________ NOD32 3155 (20080603) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

swissarmy_wife

Funny, right before I read this reply I was thinking that it sounded
like they were craving fats for some reason.

I couldn't get my children to try salad dressing if it was going to
save their lives! They aren't big on butter either. Really, I don't
see a problem with it. I might offer up some ideas on what salad
dressing or butter could be combined with, but not for any other
reason than it could and they might like it.

--- In [email protected], "Ulrike Haupt" <rica@...> wrote:
>
> Butter or some other fatty substance (real butter works best!)
desire may be the request from the body to givethe gallbaldder he ok
to start doing its thing.

wisdomalways5

lol- my 3 kids have done this nad they are 14-5 and 3

what difference does it make if it is plain butter on a spoon or
butter on the toast- or a spoonful of sugar or a cookie with sugar-
or chocolate syrup- or just the frosting off the cake

I have to say my youngest would eat lotion which i found very
strange- and thankfully it did not last long but at least they want
food

Julie
the-life-of-fun.blogspot.com



--- In [email protected], "Lisa" <lrowx001@...>
wrote:
>
> Actually, it is margarine (with no trans fat)....
>
> We are new to RU. We are working hard to give the boys (6 & 7)
food
> autonomy. When they ask for something that seems unusual to me, I
> question my own hesitation and usually my concerns are groundless -

> old recordings in my head. I've gotten past cake for breakfast,
> limitless candy and popsicles, and even drinking the salad
dressing
> that comes in the little cups at the restaurant.
>
> Recently, one of the boys said he was hungry. I asked what he
wanted
> to eat. He said butter. I said I wasn't comfortable with him just
> eating butter so he asked for a hotdog bun with butter. Later I
asked
> myself "What difference does it make whether he eats the butter on
> bread or by itself?" And I can't think of a reason why he ought
not
> eat butter (margarine) by the spoonful, or salad dressing, which
was
> requested in close proximity to the butter. Actually, I can see
how
> he might want to taste the condiment without the flavor
distraction
> of another food.
>
> So I'd like to know whether anyone else has dealt with this, or a
> similar food (condiment) issue, and how you handled it. I have
> visions of handing him a spoonful of margarine, or a pat of
butter,
> or a bowl of salad dressing. But an old recording inside of me
makes
> me hesitate. It says, what if he eats it and wants another, and
> another, and another. Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink
salad
> dressing until they have had their fill? Or would I somehow be
> negligent to support this desire. Please help.
>
> Thanks! Lisa
>

Bekki Kirby

Butter is fabulous! We actually have preferred brands for "snackin'
butter." Salted is naturally much tastier than unsalted. Goat butter
is hard to find but really yummy. :-)

Plus, if it comes from grassfed cows, it's a fabulous source of
vitamins A & D. I know the actual nutritive value isn't what's up for
debate here, but... after much reading on the topic I vehemently
believe that saturated fats from natural sources are GOOD for us.

But yeah, this lurker says Let Them Eat Butter! They might have a
growth spurt coming up and need the extra nutrients. I used to eat
huge quantities of straight salt. No idea why. Blech.

Bekki (former lurker, now off digest mode)

--
My multiple personalities:

http://whatwouldbekkieat.blogspot.com

http://www.shelfari.com/bekkijune

http://www.myspace.com/bekkijune

Matt Speno

My youngest boy, after having the experience of tapping maple trees
this spring and drinking the sap, has begun to drink maple syrup from
his own maple leaf shaped bottle. when I make him french toast or
pancakes, I only fill the bottle half way (1-2 0z at most) and he has a
field day with it. This seems to satisfy his need. My second boy,
along with his younger brother, both will eat butter. I sometimes find
them with literally butter fingers licking away. why not. if they eat
too much I am sure they will realise a tummy ache is the result. I was
freaked out at first, but that is my preconception that butter HAS to
be on toast or whatever to be enjoyed! So I say LET THEM EAT BUTTER!

Melissa Gray

My kids eat butter. Grosses me out but dh's brother grew up eating
butter all the time and he's a pretty healthy guy.
There really isn't anything that I can think of I would draw the line
at, outside of poison, that I would try to redirect them on, and
amazingly enough, they do get their fill and move on. Or not. Breanna
likes a tremendous amount of salt on everything she eats.

Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com



On Jun 3, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Lisa wrote:

> Actually, it is margarine (with no trans fat)....
>
> We are new to RU. We are working hard to give the boys (6 & 7) food
> autonomy. When they ask for something that seems unusual to me, I
> question my own hesitation and usually my concerns are groundless -
> old recordings in my head. I've gotten past cake for breakfast,
> limitless candy and popsicles, and even drinking the salad dressing
> that comes in the little cups at the restaurant.
>
> Recently, one of the boys said he was hungry. I asked what he wanted
> to eat. He said butter. I said I wasn't comfortable with him just
> eating butter so he asked for a hotdog bun with butter. Later I asked
> myself "What difference does it make whether he eats the butter on
> bread or by itself?" And I can't think of a reason why he ought not
> eat butter (margarine) by the spoonful, or salad dressing, which was
> requested in close proximity to the butter. Actually, I can see how
> he might want to taste the condiment without the flavor distraction
> of another food.
>
> So I'd like to know whether anyone else has dealt with this, or a
> similar food (condiment) issue, and how you handled it. I have
> visions of handing him a spoonful of margarine, or a pat of butter,
> or a bowl of salad dressing. But an old recording inside of me makes
> me hesitate. It says, what if he eats it and wants another, and
> another, and another. Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
> dressing until they have had their fill? Or would I somehow be
> negligent to support this desire. Please help.
>
> Thanks! Lisa
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Johnston

Sorta OT but why is it a RU idea to let kids eat unhealthy food? Can't one
just buy healthy food for the house and let them make choices from the
options in the house? I am thinking more along the lines of obvious junk
food type stuff as I know that people may feel differently than me re:
animal products.



Kelli Johnston



From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ulrike Haupt
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Is it OK to... let them eat butter?



Butter or some other fatty substance (real butter works best!) desire may be
the request from the body to givethe gallbaldder he ok to start doing its
thing.That is what often, after a meal with mainly starches helps me to feel
'done' with a meal. Other peole 'need' a sweet to get this feeling of being
done as happens when the digestion juices begin their job.
It is only a spoonful that does the trick, really!

Blissing
Ulrike
from Namibia -somewhere in Africa
Ps why make a big deal out of it?

----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
To: [email protected]
<mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:09 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Is it OK to... let them eat butter?

Actually, it is margarine (with no trans fat)....

We are new to RU. We are working hard to give the boys (6 & 7) food
autonomy. When they ask for something that seems unusual to me, I
question my own hesitation and usually my concerns are groundless -
old recordings in my head. I've gotten past cake for breakfast,
limitless candy and popsicles, and even drinking the salad dressing
that comes in the little cups at the restaurant.

Recently, one of the boys said he was hungry. I asked what he wanted
to eat. He said butter. I said I wasn't comfortable with him just
eating butter so he asked for a hotdog bun with butter. Later I asked
myself "What difference does it make whether he eats the butter on
bread or by itself?" And I can't think of a reason why he ought not
eat butter (margarine) by the spoonful, or salad dressing, which was
requested in close proximity to the butter. Actually, I can see how
he might want to taste the condiment without the flavor distraction
of another food.

So I'd like to know whether anyone else has dealt with this, or a
similar food (condiment) issue, and how you handled it. I have
visions of handing him a spoonful of margarine, or a pat of butter,
or a bowl of salad dressing. But an old recording inside of me makes
me hesitate. It says, what if he eats it and wants another, and
another, and another. Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
dressing until they have had their fill? Or would I somehow be
negligent to support this desire. Please help.

Thanks! Lisa

__________ NOD32 3155 (20080603) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jodi Bezzola

Lisa <lrowx001@...> wrote:

~~So I'd like to know whether anyone else has dealt with this, or a
similar food (condiment) issue, and how you handled it. I have
visions of handing him a spoonful of margarine, or a pat of butter,
or a bowl of salad dressing. But an old recording inside of me makes
me hesitate. It says, what if he eats it and wants another, and
another, and another. Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
dressing until they have had their fill? Or would I somehow be
negligent to support this desire. Please help.~~

Mine had a period of time when they were requesting all the condiments! We went through mayo (yuk to eat plain imo, but they loved it), ketchup, mustard, jam, butter, etc. They had to be totally in charge, dishing it out into a bowl until it was 'loaded'. We went through a LOT of condiments! But it was kind of fun too, and totally harmless. My sister always liked eating butter, and as an adult she still loves to slice a bit of cold butter off the top.

And you said it yourself, that it's an 'old recording' that is making you question whether this is okay. Just say yes!

Jodi




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mara

Oh, that brings back memories. My then 2 y.o. loved to eat a whole stick of butter, just chewing it off the top. He never finished the whole stick in one sitting. My kids have also tried some pretty weird combinations of food without any harm. One thing I did notice is that when my 6 y.o. had something with MSG (like Doritos) in it (when we went somewhere) he got a big headache, and when I told him that I see a pattern there he said he does not need to have this anymore when we go out and we buy MSG-free alternatives. I agree, just say yes, and have fun!
MAra


----- Original Message ----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 8:17:07 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Is it OK to... let them eat butter?


Lisa <lrowx001@gmail. com> wrote:

~~So I'd like to know whether anyone else has dealt with this, or a
similar food (condiment) issue, and how you handled it. I have
visions of handing him a spoonful of margarine, or a pat of butter,
or a bowl of salad dressing. But an old recording inside of me makes
me hesitate. It says, what if he eats it and wants another, and
another, and another. Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
dressing until they have had their fill? Or would I somehow be
negligent to support this desire. Please help.~~

Mine had a period of time when they were requesting all the condiments! We went through mayo (yuk to eat plain imo, but they loved it), ketchup, mustard, jam, butter, etc. They had to be totally in charge, dishing it out into a bowl until it was 'loaded'. We went through a LOT of condiments! But it was kind of fun too, and totally harmless. My sister always liked eating butter, and as an adult she still loves to slice a bit of cold butter off the top.

And you said it yourself, that it's an 'old recording' that is making you question whether this is okay. Just say yes!

Jodi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Thedaker

I'd think of it this way; what if your husband had an idea about what
"healthy" food vs. "junk" food was, and only allowed his version of
"healthy" food to be in the house. In addition, he made it clear that any
food choices you might want outside of his ideas were "junk" and therefore
not OK. How would you feel about that? I'd hate it! It's not for my
husband - or anyone else! - to choose for me what to eat (or wear, or watch,
or read, or.).


Shell & Da Boys
Drew, 8.5 and Josh, 4.5
www.thedaker.blogspot.com <http://www.thedaker.blogspot.com/>
"If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you
love, you have to find the courage to live it." John Irving


_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kelli Johnston
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Is it OK to... let them eat butter?



Sorta OT but why is it a RU idea to let kids eat unhealthy food? Can't one
just buy healthy food for the house and let them make choices from the
options in the house? I am thinking more along the lines of obvious junk
food type stuff as I know that people may feel differently than me re:
animal products.

Kelli Johnston



.

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=12789513/grpspId=1705081972/msgI
d=33440/stime=1212537986/nc1=5028925/nc2=5379224/nc3=4990217>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jun 3, 2008, at 8:05 PM, Kelli Johnston wrote:

> Sorta OT but why is it a RU idea to let kids eat unhealthy food?

Whose idea of unhealthy?

Would you like the idea of someone watching what you're choosing
(food or otherwise) and judging it by their standards?


> Can't one
> just buy healthy food for the house and let them make choices from the
> options in the house?

Why can't there be both? The idea isn't to bring the whole world into
the house without regards to what people want.

Yes, buy healthy, by your standards, foods but when someone says "Can
you get a package of Oreos?" the answer is "Of course!"

No one's advocating a cupboard full of nothing but snacky foods.
Since you're the provider make and buy healthy foods. Make those
healthy foods easy to grab and attractive to kids. But when they ask
for something specific that you wouldn't normally buy, treat it as
you would an avocado or any other request.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Johnston

That is an interesting way to think about it. It is not something I could
get behind personally.



Kelli Johnston



From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joyce Fetteroll
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Is it OK to... let them eat butter?




On Jun 3, 2008, at 8:05 PM, Kelli Johnston wrote:

> Sorta OT but why is it a RU idea to let kids eat unhealthy food?

Whose idea of unhealthy?

Would you like the idea of someone watching what you're choosing
(food or otherwise) and judging it by their standards?

> Can't one
> just buy healthy food for the house and let them make choices from the
> options in the house?

Why can't there be both? The idea isn't to bring the whole world into
the house without regards to what people want.

Yes, buy healthy, by your standards, foods but when someone says "Can
you get a package of Oreos?" the answer is "Of course!"

No one's advocating a cupboard full of nothing but snacky foods.
Since you're the provider make and buy healthy foods. Make those
healthy foods easy to grab and attractive to kids. But when they ask
for something specific that you wouldn't normally buy, treat it as
you would an avocado or any other request.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SoundHunter

In the Polish side of my family, butter was consumed like many people
consume cheese, my grandmother sliced it thick on any sandwich. My
family is all thin and pretty healthy other than their chain smoking,
alcoholic and self destructive ways, but when those things don't kill
them there is no problems with obesity, heart attacks and blood
pressure etc. I think butter is just fine :)

~ Rachel
http://wifemothermaniac.blogspot.com/

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Kelli Johnston <KelliJohnston@...> wrote: That is an interesting way to think about it. It is not something I could
get behind personally


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-

Have you seen the research video of what happens to children who are limited in what they eat??
Here it is:
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1110/video/watchonline.htm

The second video that says:Obesity Begins at Home

And we unschoolers have been saying that all along.


Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa Smith

-----Original Message-----
Date: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:21:18 pm
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Is it OK to... let them eat butter?

I just have to comment that my favorite thing about making cookies is eating some of the butter creamed with the sugar. Nummy!

Lisa

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa <lrowx001@...>

Actually, it is margarine (with no trans fat)....

-=-=-=-=-

Way back when (maybe 20 years ago?), Ben was told at a military
physical that he needed to cut back on butter because his cholesterol
was high. He was a literal kind of guy. <g> So, as a good wife (but
against my better judgment), I started buying and using margarine
(ugh!). For 12 years!

Then he got a job as a sales rep for a restaurant food distributor. At
a seminar (probably sponsored by the dairy industry! <g>), he was told
that margarine was one hydrogen atom away from plastic. Overnight we
were back to BUTTER! I did a happy dance! <g>

-=-=-=-=-=-

So I'd like to know whether anyone else has dealt with this, or a
similar food (condiment) issue, and how you handled it. I have
visions of handing him a spoonful of margarine, or a pat of butter,
or a bowl of salad dressing.

-=-=-=-=

Ben, my husband, is only one in our family with these desires. He'll
drink pickle vinegar, beet juice, and salad dressing---and eat butter
and sour cream by themselves. Gives me the willies. <g> Neither of our
sons has done that.

-=-=-=-=-

But an old recording inside of me makes
me hesitate. It says, what if he eats it and wants another, and
another, and another. Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
dressing until they have had their fill? Or would I somehow be
negligent to support this desire. Please help.

-=-=-=-=-

I don't think Ben would appreciate my keeping these things from him. I
asked him whether he'd always done that. He said yes. I asked what his
mom said to it. He said he never did it in front of her---and he never
got caught! <g> He also added that he used to drink A-1 sauce from the
bottle, but now it's too expensive. But he *will* drink BBQ sauce, soy
sauce---basically any condiment. I'll have to start watching him at the
frig! For those regular visitors, he says he no longer drinks from the
milk carton. <G>

Jon Kream's gonna get a lot of mileage out of this one! <BWG>

I really wouldn't worry about it. <g>


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

Ren Allen

~~That is an interesting way to think about it. It is not something I
could get behind personally.~~

Do you believe that if you control their choices, they will never eat
those foods anyway?
I think the idea that we can choose for other people is an illusion at
best. Damaging at the worst. How old are your children?

I have one that is grown and moved out so I have zero illusions about
control these days!:)
It's easy to think we can control these things when we have young
children, because it works pretty well for some people. But in our
society there are a LOT of food choices right now and I certainly
don't want anyone else deciding what is healthy for ME.

I personally think butter is healthy. Especially when I get it fresh
from the farm.:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Kelli Johnston <KelliJohnston@...>

Sorta OT but why is it a RU idea to let kids eat unhealthy food? Can't
one
just buy healthy food for the house and let them make choices from the
options in the house? I am thinking more along the lines of obvious junk
food type stuff as I know that people may feel differently than me re:
animal products.

-=-=-=-=-

No one is suggesting that unhealthy food is a requirement. Allowing
children a CHOICE is what's important.

Mine generally choose foods that are good for them because they've had
experience in how different foods make them feel. That includes
McDonald's and Oreos and Fruit Loops. They still will choose less
healthful foods, but less and less as they get older.

We talk a LOT about foods and how they make us feel. I keep LOTS of
fruits and vegies in the house. Rarely do we buy cookies cause we all
like homemade better. We're more likely to bake a cake or pie though.
They're VERY willing to try new, strange things because we've never
made them eat anything---just made the weird new stuff available.

Cam's an on and off vegetarian and considers everything that goes in
his mouth----uh...unlike his A-1 drinking father! Dunc, at 12, is quite
adventurous; he has a sweet tooth but he often makes healthful
decisions---better than *I* do!

We buy lots of good stuff. The house is always full of healthful food.
But I'll buy whatever they want. And they can choose whatever they
want. But the thing IS...THEY get to CHOOSE.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

Ren Allen

~~Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
dressing until they have had their fill?~~

That's how we handle needs around here.

My oldest child had a thing for Twix. It used to drive me crazy
because no matter how many I bought he seemed to gorge and hide them.

I decided to bring out the big guns.;)
I bought a 36 pack from Sam's Club. Twice. That was the end of that.
He still laughs about how much he LOVED Twix and now he could care less.

Our response to desire is to feed it. People can truly choose when
items aren't limited. Giving myself that permission as an adult has
led to a very balanced and healthy way of eating...for ME.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

Here's some butter:
http://radicalunschooling.blogspot.com/2007/05/bounty.html

:)
I used to eat butter plain. Loved it as a kid, couldn't do that now
though. But a toasted cheese sandwich? Hmmhhhmmm.
Or a piece of homemade bread dripping with farm butter and some of
Kelly's honey? Oh yeah...
Oh, and then there was that time Mindy Hayworth fed me farm fresh
butter with some of her homemade bread dipped in...life IS good.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

pureprairie1

> Funny, right before I read this reply I was thinking that it sounded
> like they were craving fats for some reason.



That's what I think. Vitamin A and vitamin D are
fat soluble vitamins found in butter. Our cells get
energy from fats and from sugars. Eating fats will take
away sugar cravings. Sweet foods (carbs) is like
kindling and fats are like logs on a fire. It's far
healthier for the body to get its energy from good fats
than carbs. Pathogens prefer carbs.

The body digests oils, fats and proteins first and stores
carbs as fat for later use. People who eat a high fat
diet will lose weight because the body uses the calories
right up. Farmers did this with beef cattle. They fed
coconut oil to cattle to fatten them up and they all lost
weight. So much for the calorie theory of weight
management.

A good high quality butter is definitely a health food.
High mountain Swiss make a special butter from spring grass
milk that is extra high in fat, vitamin A and D. This butter
is considered a sacred food and saved for pregnant and
nursing women because it made the healthiest babies.
It contains vitamin K which widens the cheek bones
in the face and allows the teeth to come in normally without
needing orthodontics.

A good quality, preferably grass fed, butter is a high
quality food and should be eaten liberally.

The cholesterol myth is a triumph of advertising from the
grain industries. Look at the French. They eat pate, cream,
raw milk cheese, high fat meats, eggs and butter in the same
meal.

Clogged arteries comes from inflammation which is caused by
white flour and sugar. If you are worried about this, Harvard
Med School taught in the late 60's that Lugol's iodine
will dissolve wax....cholesterol is a wax. Lugols is like
Drano for the arteries. A few drops in water every day does
the trick.

Give your child popcorn with melted butter on top for a high
quality snack. (If they want it, of course!)

www.westonaprice.org will have tons of science if you need
proof.

Butter is definitely better.

Bill
(Grace 20, Stephen 18)

Robin Bentley

Hey, *I* like to drink maple syrup from the bottle! It's full of
vitamins and minerals, especially the darker versions. Yum.

And I scoop a spoon of organic coconut oil out of the container and
eat it by itself. Double yum!

My dd (now 13) used to eat butter by the spoonful, around the ages of
4-7. She only ate it on pasta until about age 11, then began liking
butter on baked potatoes and sourdough toast. But not too much butter
(which I tend to like). She knows exactly how much she wants and needs.

Robin B.
(And as an unschooling friend of mine always says, "Bread is just a
vehicle for eating plenty of butter!")


On Jun 3, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Matt Speno wrote:

> My youngest boy, after having the experience of tapping maple trees
> this spring and drinking the sap, has begun to drink maple syrup from
> his own maple leaf shaped bottle. when I make him french toast or
> pancakes, I only fill the bottle half way (1-2 0z at most) and he
> has a
> field day with it. This seems to satisfy his need. My second boy,
> along with his younger brother, both will eat butter. I sometimes
> find
> them with literally butter fingers licking away. why not. if they
> eat
> too much I am sure they will realise a tummy ache is the result. I
> was
> freaked out at first, but that is my preconception that butter HAS to
> be on toast or whatever to be enjoyed! So I say LET THEM EAT BUTTER!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Robin Bentley

Dd had a thing for Dove ice cream bars. For breakfast, especially. So,
we always had a couple of boxes in the freezer for about a year. She
didn't drink much milk and doesn't eat cheese other than on pizza or
parmesan on pasta.

Now, she's decided she prefers raisin bran, oatmeal or plain Cheerios
(all with milk) or bagels with cream cheese for breakfast. Sometimes,
she likes roast chicken. Sometimes sourdough toast with butter. We
have a box of Dove bars languishing in the freezer. I would be okay
with her going back to eating them, also.

It seems to sort itself out, when all manner of "healthy" and "non-
healthy" foods (and I use those terms loosely) are available or
offered, with no judgment. That's not to say I might not offer my
opinion or suggestions about food, but it's always up to her.

Robin B.


On Jun 3, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Ren Allen wrote:

> ~~Is it OK to let them eat butter or drink salad
> dressing until they have had their fill?~~
>
> That's how we handle needs around here.
>
> My oldest child had a thing for Twix. It used to drive me crazy
> because no matter how many I bought he seemed to gorge and hide them.
>
> I decided to bring out the big guns.;)
> I bought a 36 pack from Sam's Club. Twice. That was the end of that.
> He still laughs about how much he LOVED Twix and now he could care
> less.
>
> Our response to desire is to feed it. People can truly choose when
> items aren't limited. Giving myself that permission as an adult has
> led to a very balanced and healthy way of eating...for ME.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jun 3, 2008, at 11:06 PM, Ren Allen wrote:

> I think the idea that we can choose for other people is an illusion at
> best.

I think we have this mistaken idea that we humans prefer what is bad
to what is good. And the only reason adults are able to choose the
good over the bad is because we were controlled long enough to get to
an age where we could tell ourselves no and make the right choices.

But it just isn't true. The children here who have had free range of
food are proof. I think what makes it hard for people to accept is
that kids don't limit themselves to nutritious food. They explore.
They binge. They go through phases. But when we make nutritious food
as easy as snacky food, when we don't hover and fuss, when we share
our own ideas about choices (in an informational way without strings
attached), when we look at the big picture free range kids choose
nutritious food.

Another thing that prevents parents from grasping the idea that kids
will choose nutritious food is that little kids, especially
preadolescents, need a lot of calories. Snack foods and, a big
favorite, McD's Chicken Nuggets!, are little bundles of calories.
It's not because they're "junk" that kids like them. It's because
kids can get a big whoop of calories with little time investment ;-)
Rather than fighting it, we can recognize it and provide nutritious
snacks that are full of the fat and calories kids need.

The best way to create a craving for something is to either forbid it
or make it scarce. So why would that technique work to prevent
someone from wanting something?

On Jun 3, 2008, at 9:18 PM, Kelli Johnston wrote:
> That is an interesting way to think about it. It is not something I
> could
> get behind personally.

It's not speculation, it's knowledge from personal experience. We
don't *think* kids will grow up to make nutritious choices. We know
they will because there are adult unschool children who we've watched
grow up who still make nutritious choices when on their own. There
are parents here who were former controllers and switched to free
range and they can see the difference in their kids.

Control is the easiest technique for parents to apply. It doesn't
take special training. Don't you think that if control worked that
parents would have figured that out long ago and we wouldn't need any
other parenting technique? We'd all just say no to everything we
didn't want kids to do and they'd grow up to say no to themselves and
live their lives exactly as we trained them to do.

As a universal technique control doesn't work, unless your goal is to
teach your kids to sneak and beg. When we place ourselves as a road
block between our kids and what they want, what options do we give
them? Sneak around us. Bully past us. Give up.

If we want them to give up when we create a roadblock, then why isn't
it good when they give up when *any* roadblock appears before them?
Do we cheer on the hero in the movie who says "Oh, well, they don't
want me to have that so I give up"? *Why* do we think kids are some
other species? Why do we think that if we just tell them what's
"right" and stop them from doing what's "wrong" that they'll just
believe us and do what they're told? When someone does that to me, I
get irritated and hold onto my own ideas and stop listening to them.
Why would kids be different?

It's much better to be their partner than their roadblock. If you
become an obstacle they'll find a way around you. Is that what you
want for your relationship with your kids?

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

swissarmy_wife

One of my personal favorites as a child, and now one of my children's.
My air popper broke. :-( So hard to find a decent one these days.


> Give your child popcorn with melted butter on top for a high
> quality snack. (If they want it, of course!)

Debra Rossing

That was my first thought too - a need for fat for some reason (growth
spurt for instance). My mom has told me that when I was a young tot I'd
grab a stick of butter and munch on it like a banana. I probably didn't
eat the whole thing (that would be too much quantity for a small
person's stomach most likely) but gnaw I did. To this day I like a bit
of butter on many things (although now we usually use Earth Balance, an
organic version of the Smart Balance margarine - nothing hydrogenated in
it) - the creamy, slightly salty taste/texture is important to me.
(aside: as for salad dressings I much prefer a good balsamic vinegar
drizzled over my veggies to anything really creamy BUT I do like ranch
dressing with my pizza lol)

If DS was requesting a snack of just butter regularly (not just once or
twice, experimentally), I'd look into other fatty, creamy type things
like cream cheese, ice cream, baby yogurt (yobaby etc - full fat,
smooth, not as tart as regular yogurt) or custard style yogurt, etc
and/or slightly salty things as well (pretzels, crackers, etc).

Deb


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Lisa

My husband grew up spending every weekend on his grandfather's dairy
farm where they drank raw milk after his grandparents scooped the
cream off the top for their coffee. He still loves to get the cream
on top local dairy milk from Whole Foods and have the cream off the
top all to himself. He loves fresh butter, whole fat whipping cream
and so forth. He is also the big condiment guy at our house.. he
likes EVERYTHING on his hamburger while the kids and I are the ones
that like nothing or very little on ours.
I do have butter eaters at my house though... our now 13 yr old
daughter has long thin fingers so it was always obvious who had been
in the butter by the finger tracks! My kids always love the little
packets of butter or margarine in restaurants. I can't see any
reason to stop them... I also would not want someone to tell me what
is healthy and not healthy or what I should or shouldn't eat.

Lisa B

Debra Rossing

> Yes, buy healthy, by your standards, foods but when someone says "Can
you get a package of Oreos?" the answer is "Of course!"
And maybe look for alternatives and see if they pass muster - DS (10)
prefers the organic, no HFCS, Oreo-like cookies from the co-op better
than standard Oreos (the cream inside is creamier for one thing) and the
'gummy cubs' (organic, colored with vegetable dyes) are softer and
tastier than the name brand gummy 'bears'. Sometimes the alternate
versions (real ingredients, minimal/no preservatives, dyes, no HFCS,
etc) work fine; other times not so much. If you (global pronoun) are
working in partnership with your kids to meet needs mutually (their need
for a particular taste experience, your need to manage a budget and
provide healthful foods most of the time, etc) things tend to work
themselves around much better than if it's a tug of war as to who will
"win" a particular decision (Oreos for breakfast vs "healthy" oatmeal or
whatever).

Deb


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