Losing faith in unschooling...I need help getting on track
Tina Bragdon
Hi, I lurk here lots but haven't posted much. Some of you may know
me as canuckgal on unschooling.info. I am writing because I have so
much going on in my head right now and am so discouraged. I have an
8 yr old dd and almost 5 yr old ds who have never been to school.
I am just going through a time where I am not seeing the learning or
joy in my children's lives and I know I need to shake up my
thinking/perspective. I am thinking in particular of my 8 yr old.
She is going through a looong spell of (it feels like) doing nothing
but watching tv (mostly the Y-TV station) and playing computer games
(dressing up dolls, etc), ones that most adults would deem "fluff"
and not "educational". I have tried to get involved in this stuff
WITH her but am finding it hard when a strong part of me is comparing
her to her peers and what they are doing in school. I KNOW that is a
part of me that needs to be de schooled and gotten out of my head
(that school comparison), and just when I think I have done that it
pops up again.
I feel like lately I have not been "proactive" enough at introducing
cool new things to her, etc (many factors in the family this year
contributing to this inadequacy I feel...dh has had a chronic illness
diagnosed, I have had to therefore go to work more, am feeling more
tired and disconnected from the kids and not as on top of their
interests as a result, $$ is a big issue because of all this too) and
when I see her so "behind" (again, schooled type thinking I know) I
can't help but feel bad that I am not doing a good enough "job" and
it's my fault (proving to all the skeptical school at home
moms...unfortunately the majority of homeschoolers in my area... in
my homeschool group that yes unschooling is educational neglect...I
have had a mom or two say they would never unschool because of this!)
if that makes sense. For example, she is VERY weak in her
mathematical thinking, would not even be able to add facts under 10,
yet strong in language arts type stuff/storytelling, reading
abilities, etc. I found myself yesterday listening to Pam
Sooroshian's math anxiety tape in the car and felt bad that I should
be getting out the dice, games etc more but dd is resistant to even
that kind of stuff lately (like she senses I am a bit panicked about
it) and maybe I haven't done enough. I have seen her develop the
ability to read well without "lessons" because she wanted to know
what things said, I have always read to her and ds, and it "gelled"
for her but I can't seem to have faith in other things like math that
she will WANT to learn and play games and puzzle and figure and would
it lead to the same *competency* as school deems appropriate and gee
will she ever learn her times tables or how to add if *I* don't find
some way of making it relevant to her real life....and sneak it in
somehow..."hey wannna play a game with me?"...kind of like I remember
a post by Sandra Dodd on another board regarding strewing along the
lines of if she noticed there hadn't been enough fruit consumption in
the house lately she would ensure more fruit was there. Is that
really unschooling, or is it sneaky???? I KNOW KNOW KNOW that she is
writing if and when she wants to write (comics, etc) and THAT is what
makes it meaningful and important vs the coercion of writing practice
in school, but then that schooled part of me worries when I don't
see "output", or when ds barely can copy a circle and has no interest
in coloring and is behind in many other gross/fine motor skills. Eeek!
I found myself feeling horrible about all this today and had to come
post this. Here I am, with all my stinkin' schooling thinking
rearing up it's ugly head. Here I am, feeling AWFUL that I am seeing
my daughter in the light of being "always watching tv", not
interested in doing things with me like she used to, etc. Feeling
awful also that I am seeing her other peers as a comparison and all
that they can "do", yet knowing that maybe their skills come with a
price...I talked to a mom at my homeschooling group last week who is
very regimented, school at home, and has a 12 yr old dd who HATES
her/homeschooling, yet she was going to make her do "math in July"
because she hadn't finished her work! And yet here's me, wondering if
I should be a "bit" more structured (in order to feel like we are
*DOING* something together other than *just* what others
deem "fluffy" stuff) and yet knowing I don't want that extreme this
poor mom had either!
As you can see I really need some help. How do you get the
comparisons to others and lack of faith out of your head? And what
do you do when you find you are feeling disconnected from your dd and
are looking at all the things she "isn't" doing? I have tried
thinking of her strengths, sit and watch tv or do computer with her,
and today I am feeling horrible knowing that *I* am looking at her in
the light of "expectations" that I didn't realize I had (all the
unschooling success stories I have read, that they would constantly
be on a quest for knowledge, write novels at 8, be math whizzes, etc
etc)
Any words of wisdom or a kick in the you-know-where-would be
appreciated...
Tina, here in Manitoba, Canada mom to Stephanie (8) and Jonathan (4)
me as canuckgal on unschooling.info. I am writing because I have so
much going on in my head right now and am so discouraged. I have an
8 yr old dd and almost 5 yr old ds who have never been to school.
I am just going through a time where I am not seeing the learning or
joy in my children's lives and I know I need to shake up my
thinking/perspective. I am thinking in particular of my 8 yr old.
She is going through a looong spell of (it feels like) doing nothing
but watching tv (mostly the Y-TV station) and playing computer games
(dressing up dolls, etc), ones that most adults would deem "fluff"
and not "educational". I have tried to get involved in this stuff
WITH her but am finding it hard when a strong part of me is comparing
her to her peers and what they are doing in school. I KNOW that is a
part of me that needs to be de schooled and gotten out of my head
(that school comparison), and just when I think I have done that it
pops up again.
I feel like lately I have not been "proactive" enough at introducing
cool new things to her, etc (many factors in the family this year
contributing to this inadequacy I feel...dh has had a chronic illness
diagnosed, I have had to therefore go to work more, am feeling more
tired and disconnected from the kids and not as on top of their
interests as a result, $$ is a big issue because of all this too) and
when I see her so "behind" (again, schooled type thinking I know) I
can't help but feel bad that I am not doing a good enough "job" and
it's my fault (proving to all the skeptical school at home
moms...unfortunately the majority of homeschoolers in my area... in
my homeschool group that yes unschooling is educational neglect...I
have had a mom or two say they would never unschool because of this!)
if that makes sense. For example, she is VERY weak in her
mathematical thinking, would not even be able to add facts under 10,
yet strong in language arts type stuff/storytelling, reading
abilities, etc. I found myself yesterday listening to Pam
Sooroshian's math anxiety tape in the car and felt bad that I should
be getting out the dice, games etc more but dd is resistant to even
that kind of stuff lately (like she senses I am a bit panicked about
it) and maybe I haven't done enough. I have seen her develop the
ability to read well without "lessons" because she wanted to know
what things said, I have always read to her and ds, and it "gelled"
for her but I can't seem to have faith in other things like math that
she will WANT to learn and play games and puzzle and figure and would
it lead to the same *competency* as school deems appropriate and gee
will she ever learn her times tables or how to add if *I* don't find
some way of making it relevant to her real life....and sneak it in
somehow..."hey wannna play a game with me?"...kind of like I remember
a post by Sandra Dodd on another board regarding strewing along the
lines of if she noticed there hadn't been enough fruit consumption in
the house lately she would ensure more fruit was there. Is that
really unschooling, or is it sneaky???? I KNOW KNOW KNOW that she is
writing if and when she wants to write (comics, etc) and THAT is what
makes it meaningful and important vs the coercion of writing practice
in school, but then that schooled part of me worries when I don't
see "output", or when ds barely can copy a circle and has no interest
in coloring and is behind in many other gross/fine motor skills. Eeek!
I found myself feeling horrible about all this today and had to come
post this. Here I am, with all my stinkin' schooling thinking
rearing up it's ugly head. Here I am, feeling AWFUL that I am seeing
my daughter in the light of being "always watching tv", not
interested in doing things with me like she used to, etc. Feeling
awful also that I am seeing her other peers as a comparison and all
that they can "do", yet knowing that maybe their skills come with a
price...I talked to a mom at my homeschooling group last week who is
very regimented, school at home, and has a 12 yr old dd who HATES
her/homeschooling, yet she was going to make her do "math in July"
because she hadn't finished her work! And yet here's me, wondering if
I should be a "bit" more structured (in order to feel like we are
*DOING* something together other than *just* what others
deem "fluffy" stuff) and yet knowing I don't want that extreme this
poor mom had either!
As you can see I really need some help. How do you get the
comparisons to others and lack of faith out of your head? And what
do you do when you find you are feeling disconnected from your dd and
are looking at all the things she "isn't" doing? I have tried
thinking of her strengths, sit and watch tv or do computer with her,
and today I am feeling horrible knowing that *I* am looking at her in
the light of "expectations" that I didn't realize I had (all the
unschooling success stories I have read, that they would constantly
be on a quest for knowledge, write novels at 8, be math whizzes, etc
etc)
Any words of wisdom or a kick in the you-know-where-would be
appreciated...
Tina, here in Manitoba, Canada mom to Stephanie (8) and Jonathan (4)
Judy R
Hi Tina - What an awful time you are going through - you are coping with LOTS of stuff, any one of which would be HUGELY anxiety making; so first of all, don't add to it by beating yourself up for being anxious! Who wouldn't be? It's OK to be anxious! Just allow to happen, feel it totally, you are in some tough super-anxiety causing situations, don't fight the feelings or feel guilty about having them. Hopefully, accepting the reality of the situation and accepting all the anxious feelings will actually help you find some peace with your feelings so you can move forward with your actions. hopefully. that's the theory. ;-)
OK, so - I know what you mean about comparing your kids to other (seemingly) super kids who are mathematical or musical geniuses or whatever. My girls are in the tv-watching, computer all-day-long group. Especially when we first started home-schooling (we *never* did lessons, just was not going to happen, I tried a few times, but gave up almost immediately), they just gorged themselves, not on commercial tv so much because we didn't have it where we were living, but for sure computers - they were what, 9 or 10 I guess - so they did do some computer games too, zoo things and what all - but have moved over to instant messaging and My Space - not on-line games though - the boys (same age) are into those pretty big time.
And I agree, there's not much adult interaction there - they don't *want* my interaction around those things, they have made it very clear that those are their private lives and isn't a place where mom is particularly welcomed. I guess maybe we don't have a lot interaction that could be viewed as learning together - and they spend hours and hours doing this stuff, believe me.
Here's what my role has become, and it has taken me awhile to find it and to be OK with it. I drive them places - they are both members of a drama club, so are sometimes fairly busy with rehearsals. One of them is into modelling and acting, and I encouraged her to try a modelling course which was in the evening, so it suited her schedule, and an hour away, so we spend an hour in the car together both ways - sometimes she only wants to listen to her IPod, other times we can talk about random things. My other girl takes long trips with her dad, I'm not big on that. They have friends that come for overnights occaisionally - this reguires me to change where I sleep to accomodate them (we live in *very* small space) but I do it because it is one of the few things it seems I can do right now. And at first one of the girls was not interested in the drama - too "shy" to audition - but when they did a small production that peaked her imagination and one of her frineds was in it, well she "girded her loins" and went for it and got in - now she's trying out fot their "big" production - but that was an area that I just had to leave her alone about until she found it interesting in her own way.
I was just thinking today in fact that an awfuk lot of what I do is sit still and wait - wait for them to get up, this morning waiting for their dad to come for them to leave on their trip, waiting for them at rehearsals, being willing to hang out in the kitchen by myself and read or something when their friends are here taking over the living room - I guess I just follow their lead and try it fit myself in as best I can. I am lucky that I work part-time and have the time to actually do this - that may not be a possibility for you if you're having to work more hours.
Another random but related thing I saw today - the local college here will accept kids who don't have a high school degree - they may have to pass certain tests like a math assessment or english or whatever - this to me is very efficient - it's like what they talk about in the delivery business - JIT - just In Time - the least you need to know or whatever - they will be able to do that stuff *when* they decide they need it - working at McDonald's for a length of time is likely to motivate them to try something else eventually - and once they decide on it, then they will learn these things - even multiplication. One of the things I find myself doing is squirrelling things away when I come across them - suggestings for a interesting math site or whatever - I just stick the links in a folder in the event that one day they come to me and say "You know what Mom I really need to learn my multiplication facts" and I can just whip out this stuff and say here's some things to try on your own.
I know a young woman, dropped out of high school at 16, has just decided to go to this same local college mentioned above - once she got super-motivated to do it, she found out every short-cut she could come up with, previous learning assessment and whole the whole bit - she still had to complete a few high school credts, which she did by correspondence - I mean, once she was ready, that girls went for it tooth and nail! And what's not "smart" abou thtat, eh? - finding your own way around the system...
Not all our children are geniuses or perhaps even particularly "smart" in the traditional definition. This is of course part of what home-schooling is all about - seeing their "intelligences" that don't fit the norm, whatever they are, even if they are watching TV. This same young woman I mentioned above spent those 2 years when she was out of school almost constantly on the computer (she also removed herself from her family home, so she was going through some pretty heavy-duty emotional stuff) - sometimes they just need to do stuff - chances are it won't last forever. Both of the boys here spent almost all their time on WOW for maybe a year? Then they started gradually doing other stuff - they still do WOW, but they do lots of other stuff as well - and just simple everyday stuff like riding their bikes around the neighbourhood - discovering some of their old friends again and going over to their houses, rock band on the computer, a few first stabs a having girlfriends; the 4 of them, my 2 (twin) girls and the 2 (twin) boys are learning how to hang out together and share a space...all of which I think is very valuable stuff - how many kids get out there in the world, have a roommate and have never lived with anyone else or done a lick of cooking or housework (the boys actually do more of that than the girls).
Anway, sorry, back to your situation. I think it is probably OK to be a little separate from your child right now - maybe you both need it - you may need to spend some time coping with the other huge things that are going on- I don't think our kids need 100% of our attention 100% of the time. Maybe she needs a bit of the escape that tv allows from all this anxiety causing stuff. The hardest thing I know because it happens to me too is going through those periods where we are afraid that we are ruining our kids for life - have you ever read anything by Naomi Aldort? She now writes for Natural Child magazine (www.naturalchildmagazine.com) and also has a book out, something like Our children, ourselves or something - but just google her it will come up - she has the most calming effect on people who write to her full of these kinds of fears - she just says - what about if you just let that fear go - is the situation that is a probelm or your *fear* that the situation is a problem...anyway, she says it far better than I, definitely worth looking into.
One last thing - everybody, EVERYBODY in the world is special and precious - ALL our children whether they are math/musical geniuses of some kind or not - they are every bit as valuable and important as everybody else - if all we do is live a quiet "normal" unprepossessing life in our time on this earth, who's to say that isn't valuable, that it doesn't count? Whatever your children choose to do or not to do, they are just as valuable and precious as any others - so just love her as she is, she is already perfect, as are we all (read Eckhart Tolle's new books - The Power of Now and The New Earth for a renewal of this kind of perspective on life).
Sorry to have gone on so long - wishing you happiness and some relief from your suffering - Judy R
OK, so - I know what you mean about comparing your kids to other (seemingly) super kids who are mathematical or musical geniuses or whatever. My girls are in the tv-watching, computer all-day-long group. Especially when we first started home-schooling (we *never* did lessons, just was not going to happen, I tried a few times, but gave up almost immediately), they just gorged themselves, not on commercial tv so much because we didn't have it where we were living, but for sure computers - they were what, 9 or 10 I guess - so they did do some computer games too, zoo things and what all - but have moved over to instant messaging and My Space - not on-line games though - the boys (same age) are into those pretty big time.
And I agree, there's not much adult interaction there - they don't *want* my interaction around those things, they have made it very clear that those are their private lives and isn't a place where mom is particularly welcomed. I guess maybe we don't have a lot interaction that could be viewed as learning together - and they spend hours and hours doing this stuff, believe me.
Here's what my role has become, and it has taken me awhile to find it and to be OK with it. I drive them places - they are both members of a drama club, so are sometimes fairly busy with rehearsals. One of them is into modelling and acting, and I encouraged her to try a modelling course which was in the evening, so it suited her schedule, and an hour away, so we spend an hour in the car together both ways - sometimes she only wants to listen to her IPod, other times we can talk about random things. My other girl takes long trips with her dad, I'm not big on that. They have friends that come for overnights occaisionally - this reguires me to change where I sleep to accomodate them (we live in *very* small space) but I do it because it is one of the few things it seems I can do right now. And at first one of the girls was not interested in the drama - too "shy" to audition - but when they did a small production that peaked her imagination and one of her frineds was in it, well she "girded her loins" and went for it and got in - now she's trying out fot their "big" production - but that was an area that I just had to leave her alone about until she found it interesting in her own way.
I was just thinking today in fact that an awfuk lot of what I do is sit still and wait - wait for them to get up, this morning waiting for their dad to come for them to leave on their trip, waiting for them at rehearsals, being willing to hang out in the kitchen by myself and read or something when their friends are here taking over the living room - I guess I just follow their lead and try it fit myself in as best I can. I am lucky that I work part-time and have the time to actually do this - that may not be a possibility for you if you're having to work more hours.
Another random but related thing I saw today - the local college here will accept kids who don't have a high school degree - they may have to pass certain tests like a math assessment or english or whatever - this to me is very efficient - it's like what they talk about in the delivery business - JIT - just In Time - the least you need to know or whatever - they will be able to do that stuff *when* they decide they need it - working at McDonald's for a length of time is likely to motivate them to try something else eventually - and once they decide on it, then they will learn these things - even multiplication. One of the things I find myself doing is squirrelling things away when I come across them - suggestings for a interesting math site or whatever - I just stick the links in a folder in the event that one day they come to me and say "You know what Mom I really need to learn my multiplication facts" and I can just whip out this stuff and say here's some things to try on your own.
I know a young woman, dropped out of high school at 16, has just decided to go to this same local college mentioned above - once she got super-motivated to do it, she found out every short-cut she could come up with, previous learning assessment and whole the whole bit - she still had to complete a few high school credts, which she did by correspondence - I mean, once she was ready, that girls went for it tooth and nail! And what's not "smart" abou thtat, eh? - finding your own way around the system...
Not all our children are geniuses or perhaps even particularly "smart" in the traditional definition. This is of course part of what home-schooling is all about - seeing their "intelligences" that don't fit the norm, whatever they are, even if they are watching TV. This same young woman I mentioned above spent those 2 years when she was out of school almost constantly on the computer (she also removed herself from her family home, so she was going through some pretty heavy-duty emotional stuff) - sometimes they just need to do stuff - chances are it won't last forever. Both of the boys here spent almost all their time on WOW for maybe a year? Then they started gradually doing other stuff - they still do WOW, but they do lots of other stuff as well - and just simple everyday stuff like riding their bikes around the neighbourhood - discovering some of their old friends again and going over to their houses, rock band on the computer, a few first stabs a having girlfriends; the 4 of them, my 2 (twin) girls and the 2 (twin) boys are learning how to hang out together and share a space...all of which I think is very valuable stuff - how many kids get out there in the world, have a roommate and have never lived with anyone else or done a lick of cooking or housework (the boys actually do more of that than the girls).
Anway, sorry, back to your situation. I think it is probably OK to be a little separate from your child right now - maybe you both need it - you may need to spend some time coping with the other huge things that are going on- I don't think our kids need 100% of our attention 100% of the time. Maybe she needs a bit of the escape that tv allows from all this anxiety causing stuff. The hardest thing I know because it happens to me too is going through those periods where we are afraid that we are ruining our kids for life - have you ever read anything by Naomi Aldort? She now writes for Natural Child magazine (www.naturalchildmagazine.com) and also has a book out, something like Our children, ourselves or something - but just google her it will come up - she has the most calming effect on people who write to her full of these kinds of fears - she just says - what about if you just let that fear go - is the situation that is a probelm or your *fear* that the situation is a problem...anyway, she says it far better than I, definitely worth looking into.
One last thing - everybody, EVERYBODY in the world is special and precious - ALL our children whether they are math/musical geniuses of some kind or not - they are every bit as valuable and important as everybody else - if all we do is live a quiet "normal" unprepossessing life in our time on this earth, who's to say that isn't valuable, that it doesn't count? Whatever your children choose to do or not to do, they are just as valuable and precious as any others - so just love her as she is, she is already perfect, as are we all (read Eckhart Tolle's new books - The Power of Now and The New Earth for a renewal of this kind of perspective on life).
Sorry to have gone on so long - wishing you happiness and some relief from your suffering - Judy R
----- Original Message -----
From: Tina Bragdon
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 12:30 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Losing faith in unschooling...I need help getting on track
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Judy R
I also wanted to say ,Tina, that it is really scary-making to be doing what we are doing - we are going against our culture and that is really scary - and even though we feel that what our culture has to offer, ie, public school, is not very good, there is always the fear that what we are doing instead might not be right either - it *is* a risk, for sure, no doubt about it! And there is a possiblity that we might be wrong or that our kids may have a harder life "making it" in the mainstream culture because of these decisions we are making now - and also if it's not right for you at this crisis moment in your life, it's not wrong to look for another solution either.
Any drastic change in a culture comes with dues - I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say that getting our culture to accept or even *consider* the idea that public schooling may not be necessary, or is highly dysfunctional in it's present form at any rate, is no less of a threatening idea to the status quo than Martin Luther's assertion that people didn't need priests to interpret the Bible for them - that they could perfectly well do it themselves - and look at the upheaval *that* caused, but also look at the long-term outcome - he was right, and he was willing to pay the dues - kicked out of his university, and people starting revolutions in his name that he didn't believe in - on the other hand he married and had lots of children and ended up a happy man.
That may be a little melodramatic sounding, but I do believe that what we're talking about has the potential to be just as earth shattering in our day as those ideas were in his - and how do we feel about it now? Most present-day Christians have no problem with that concept at all, and probably couldn't even fathom a time when it was thought other-wise; but it sure caused a lot of trouble in the 1600's, or 1500's or whenever it was.
We aren't perfect either and we may not be 100% right - maybe some day we will have a public education system on a human scale - almost like day-cares, small scale and local or something with a lot more freedom for kids. But right now we dont' have that choice - we only have public school, or private school that's not much different, and a few variants of home-schooling; and we do the best we can with that. Remember too that lots of people have come from incredibly impoverished backgrounds with no *education* in our sense and have lived fulfilled and happy lives - I firmly believe that children that come from a loving home, have enough to eat and have some intellectual stimulation around them, even if it's *just* tv, already have what they need. all the best - Judy r
Any drastic change in a culture comes with dues - I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say that getting our culture to accept or even *consider* the idea that public schooling may not be necessary, or is highly dysfunctional in it's present form at any rate, is no less of a threatening idea to the status quo than Martin Luther's assertion that people didn't need priests to interpret the Bible for them - that they could perfectly well do it themselves - and look at the upheaval *that* caused, but also look at the long-term outcome - he was right, and he was willing to pay the dues - kicked out of his university, and people starting revolutions in his name that he didn't believe in - on the other hand he married and had lots of children and ended up a happy man.
That may be a little melodramatic sounding, but I do believe that what we're talking about has the potential to be just as earth shattering in our day as those ideas were in his - and how do we feel about it now? Most present-day Christians have no problem with that concept at all, and probably couldn't even fathom a time when it was thought other-wise; but it sure caused a lot of trouble in the 1600's, or 1500's or whenever it was.
We aren't perfect either and we may not be 100% right - maybe some day we will have a public education system on a human scale - almost like day-cares, small scale and local or something with a lot more freedom for kids. But right now we dont' have that choice - we only have public school, or private school that's not much different, and a few variants of home-schooling; and we do the best we can with that. Remember too that lots of people have come from incredibly impoverished backgrounds with no *education* in our sense and have lived fulfilled and happy lives - I firmly believe that children that come from a loving home, have enough to eat and have some intellectual stimulation around them, even if it's *just* tv, already have what they need. all the best - Judy r
----- Original Message -----
From: Tina Bragdon
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 12:30 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Losing faith in unschooling...I need help getting on track
Recent Activity
a.. 18New Members
Visit Your Group
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Yahoo! Groups
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Check it out and
see.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]