Re: Potty training & other question - what would a caveperson do?
Leslie Kowalski
Like Kelly wrote, I also was introduced to EC too late to put it into
effect for my girls. I also suspect many people on this list are in
the same position, and are now trying to deal with their situation at
hand (a child/parent couple who are long past the age of having
learned the EC signals).
So, once I heard about EC, I couldn't use it directly but what I did
do was use it as a way to re-think potty training in general.
Whenever I think about any topic about raising children (or even
raising adults - LOL!), I usually think "what would a caveperson
do?". I think this, because I assume that was supposed to be our
natural state - what we were meant to do as a species.
So, when I heard about EC, I thought "this makes perfect sense" - a
caveperson wouldn't have diapers, and they wouldn't want pee and poop
all over the cave, so probably there was a designated spot (or hole
in the ground) for pee and poop to go. Thus, a caveperson would have
watched their baby very carefully for the signals that something was
about to come out, and then would have held their baby over the
designated spot (just what modern ECers do now). I'm sure it didn't
take long for cavepeople figure this all out, especially since there
was a long history of this behavior already in place in the culture
(I wish we still had this long history for breastfeeding, attachment
parenting, learning, etc!).
So, what does a modern-non-cavewoman-too late-for-EC woman do? I
decided that since I had put them into diapers "un-naturally" (as in,
against our original caveperson nature), I couldn't then force them
out of them. This just helped me to relax and let potty training
happen on its own. I'm lucky - both of my girls both decided to use
the potty at a very young age (but there was pee and poop all over my
modern cave while they were figuring this out!!), so it's very easy
for me to have a "happy ending" to this story.
So, I'm not trying to say that it's easy for those struggling with
much older children using the potty. I know it's a real challenge
for those who have children who are older and not going on the potty,
even with a loving attitude toward it. I only use the caveperson
story in the sense that we can say, once again, that our modern
society has taken us away from our roots, our instincts, even in an
area like toileting. We can't blame ourselves, or each other (which
I felt the original post-er was doing), for having not seen that.
Leslie (in NJ)
effect for my girls. I also suspect many people on this list are in
the same position, and are now trying to deal with their situation at
hand (a child/parent couple who are long past the age of having
learned the EC signals).
So, once I heard about EC, I couldn't use it directly but what I did
do was use it as a way to re-think potty training in general.
Whenever I think about any topic about raising children (or even
raising adults - LOL!), I usually think "what would a caveperson
do?". I think this, because I assume that was supposed to be our
natural state - what we were meant to do as a species.
So, when I heard about EC, I thought "this makes perfect sense" - a
caveperson wouldn't have diapers, and they wouldn't want pee and poop
all over the cave, so probably there was a designated spot (or hole
in the ground) for pee and poop to go. Thus, a caveperson would have
watched their baby very carefully for the signals that something was
about to come out, and then would have held their baby over the
designated spot (just what modern ECers do now). I'm sure it didn't
take long for cavepeople figure this all out, especially since there
was a long history of this behavior already in place in the culture
(I wish we still had this long history for breastfeeding, attachment
parenting, learning, etc!).
So, what does a modern-non-cavewoman-too late-for-EC woman do? I
decided that since I had put them into diapers "un-naturally" (as in,
against our original caveperson nature), I couldn't then force them
out of them. This just helped me to relax and let potty training
happen on its own. I'm lucky - both of my girls both decided to use
the potty at a very young age (but there was pee and poop all over my
modern cave while they were figuring this out!!), so it's very easy
for me to have a "happy ending" to this story.
So, I'm not trying to say that it's easy for those struggling with
much older children using the potty. I know it's a real challenge
for those who have children who are older and not going on the potty,
even with a loving attitude toward it. I only use the caveperson
story in the sense that we can say, once again, that our modern
society has taken us away from our roots, our instincts, even in an
area like toileting. We can't blame ourselves, or each other (which
I felt the original post-er was doing), for having not seen that.
Leslie (in NJ)
Ren Allen
~~Thus, a caveperson would have
watched their baby very carefully for the signals that something was
about to come out, and then would have held their baby over the
designated spot (just what modern ECers do now). ~~
It pays to look at a lot of history if you want to figure out
"natural" for a variety of tribes. Eskimos were somewhat nomadic
(seasonally) and some of them did a lot of hiking through tundra
areas. My Ana Maime (my Eskimo Grandmother) told stories of how they
used moss from the tundra as a diaper to absorb bodily fluids. She
grew up in the old ways, one of the last I knew.
They must have practiced a combination of diapering and EC type
communication because she also remembers the babies and toddlers
getting their butts hung out over a log in the cold. I don't know if
there was a certain age they did this, or whether they read cues. I'm
sure it was both. They were able to "potty train" fairly young. But
they DID use a natural diaper of sorts. So maybe EC isn't just the
"norm" or completely natural for every society. Big deal.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
watched their baby very carefully for the signals that something was
about to come out, and then would have held their baby over the
designated spot (just what modern ECers do now). ~~
It pays to look at a lot of history if you want to figure out
"natural" for a variety of tribes. Eskimos were somewhat nomadic
(seasonally) and some of them did a lot of hiking through tundra
areas. My Ana Maime (my Eskimo Grandmother) told stories of how they
used moss from the tundra as a diaper to absorb bodily fluids. She
grew up in the old ways, one of the last I knew.
They must have practiced a combination of diapering and EC type
communication because she also remembers the babies and toddlers
getting their butts hung out over a log in the cold. I don't know if
there was a certain age they did this, or whether they read cues. I'm
sure it was both. They were able to "potty train" fairly young. But
they DID use a natural diaper of sorts. So maybe EC isn't just the
"norm" or completely natural for every society. Big deal.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Schuyler
I had a friend once mention that the Aka (one of the 4 Pygmy groups) were aware of when their infants needed to pee or poop from a couple of days old. And it was a point of much laughter if a mother or father (Aka dad's do a greater amount of childcare than do any other population--wow!! just looking for Barry Hewlett's work on the Aka and paternal care I found his book at google books http://tinyurl.com/5k2k4l, very cool) missed the moment. I imagine that it is easier when living in the Congo to be naked and visible than it is when living nearer the Arctic circle.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 17 May, 2008 1:44:00 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Potty training & other question - what would a caveperson do?
~~Thus, a caveperson would have
watched their baby very carefully for the signals that something was
about to come out, and then would have held their baby over the
designated spot (just what modern ECers do now). ~~
It pays to look at a lot of history if you want to figure out
"natural" for a variety of tribes. Eskimos were somewhat nomadic
(seasonally) and some of them did a lot of hiking through tundra
areas. My Ana Maime (my Eskimo Grandmother) told stories of how they
used moss from the tundra as a diaper to absorb bodily fluids. She
grew up in the old ways, one of the last I knew.
They must have practiced a combination of diapering and EC type
communication because she also remembers the babies and toddlers
getting their butts hung out over a log in the cold. I don't know if
there was a certain age they did this, or whether they read cues. I'm
sure it was both. They were able to "potty train" fairly young. But
they DID use a natural diaper of sorts. So maybe EC isn't just the
"norm" or completely natural for every society. Big deal.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 17 May, 2008 1:44:00 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Potty training & other question - what would a caveperson do?
~~Thus, a caveperson would have
watched their baby very carefully for the signals that something was
about to come out, and then would have held their baby over the
designated spot (just what modern ECers do now). ~~
It pays to look at a lot of history if you want to figure out
"natural" for a variety of tribes. Eskimos were somewhat nomadic
(seasonally) and some of them did a lot of hiking through tundra
areas. My Ana Maime (my Eskimo Grandmother) told stories of how they
used moss from the tundra as a diaper to absorb bodily fluids. She
grew up in the old ways, one of the last I knew.
They must have practiced a combination of diapering and EC type
communication because she also remembers the babies and toddlers
getting their butts hung out over a log in the cold. I don't know if
there was a certain age they did this, or whether they read cues. I'm
sure it was both. They were able to "potty train" fairly young. But
they DID use a natural diaper of sorts. So maybe EC isn't just the
"norm" or completely natural for every society. Big deal.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beth Fleming
I lived in Thailand for almost three years when I was younger and used to laugh to myself about the way little Thai children would run around with no pants on all day (so cute!)...but functional, too. ....in the villages there was really no such thing as carpet....if they had anything on the floor, it would have been linoleum. If inside, the kids could pee at random and it would be wiped up with a towel. If they had to poo, they were held out the window (which usually didn't have glass in the villages.) The only people who I was aware of using diapers were wealthier Thais, but I knew very few of them.
Beth, eagerly awaiting the warm weather to let 2 year old Grace run around bottomless!
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Beth, eagerly awaiting the warm weather to let 2 year old Grace run around bottomless!
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ann329851
--- In [email protected], Beth Fleming <momofwc@...>
wrote:
around with no pants on all day (so cute!)...but functional,
too. ....in the villages there was really no such thing as
carpet....if they had anything on the floor, it would have been
linoleum. If inside, the kids could pee at random and it would be
wiped up with a towel. If they had to poo, they were held out the
window (which usually didn't have glass in the villages.) The only
people who I was aware of using diapers were wealthier Thais, but I
knew very few of them.
wrote:
>used to laugh to myself about the way little Thai children would run
> I lived in Thailand for almost three years when I was younger and
around with no pants on all day (so cute!)...but functional,
too. ....in the villages there was really no such thing as
carpet....if they had anything on the floor, it would have been
linoleum. If inside, the kids could pee at random and it would be
wiped up with a towel. If they had to poo, they were held out the
window (which usually didn't have glass in the villages.) The only
people who I was aware of using diapers were wealthier Thais, but I
knew very few of them.
> Beth, eagerly awaiting the warm weather to let 2 year old Grace runaround bottomless!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> EWWWWWWWWWWW. YUKKY !!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
ann329851 <annworsley991@...> wrote:
__,_._,_EWWWWWWWWWWW. YUKKY !!!
Yukky?????
Why?
My kids run bottomless, wel my 2 year old does.
What is yukky? The child's bottom? The pee or poop?
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
__,_._,_EWWWWWWWWWWW. YUKKY !!!
>__
Yukky?????
Why?
My kids run bottomless, wel my 2 year old does.
What is yukky? The child's bottom? The pee or poop?
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lkowalsk
You know, as I was writing my email, part of my brain was thinking - "I wonder if there
was some sort of natural diapering method in history". But, then it just kind of flew out of
my mind. Thanks for bringing up the idea that there would have been a natural "resource"
for absorption of bodily fluids!
Leslie (in NJ)
was some sort of natural diapering method in history". But, then it just kind of flew out of
my mind. Thanks for bringing up the idea that there would have been a natural "resource"
for absorption of bodily fluids!
Leslie (in NJ)
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~Thus, a caveperson would have
> watched their baby very carefully for the signals that something was
> about to come out, and then would have held their baby over the
> designated spot (just what modern ECers do now). ~~
>
>
> It pays to look at a lot of history if you want to figure out
> "natural" for a variety of tribes. Eskimos were somewhat nomadic
> (seasonally) and some of them did a lot of hiking through tundra
> areas. My Ana Maime (my Eskimo Grandmother) told stories of how they
> used moss from the tundra as a diaper to absorb bodily fluids. She
> grew up in the old ways, one of the last I knew.
>
> They must have practiced a combination of diapering and EC type
> communication because she also remembers the babies and toddlers
> getting their butts hung out over a log in the cold. I don't know if
> there was a certain age they did this, or whether they read cues. I'm
> sure it was both. They were able to "potty train" fairly young. But
> they DID use a natural diaper of sorts. So maybe EC isn't just the
> "norm" or completely natural for every society. Big deal.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
Bea
--- In [email protected], Beth Fleming <momofwc@...>
wrote:
around >with no pants on all day (so cute!)..
I lived in China for almost 3 years, a little over 10 years ago. I
remember seeing lots of babies and toddlers with open slits in their
pants, and their mothers would squat them over the gutter in the
street whenever the kid needed to pee. At the time my friends and I
used to find it really cute, but didn't put much thought into it. But
when I was pregnant and read about EC, I figured out what they had
been doing.
Bea
wrote:
>used to laugh to myself about the way little Thai children would run
> I lived in Thailand for almost three years when I was younger and
around >with no pants on all day (so cute!)..
I lived in China for almost 3 years, a little over 10 years ago. I
remember seeing lots of babies and toddlers with open slits in their
pants, and their mothers would squat them over the gutter in the
street whenever the kid needed to pee. At the time my friends and I
used to find it really cute, but didn't put much thought into it. But
when I was pregnant and read about EC, I figured out what they had
been doing.
Bea
keetry
--- In [email protected], Beth Fleming <momofwc@...>
wrote:
around with no pants on all day (so cute!)...but functional,
too. ....in the villages there was really no such thing as
carpet....if they had anything on the floor, it would have been
linoleum. If inside, the kids could pee at random and it would be
wiped up with a towel.
=================
This is pretty much what I did with my babe once he started walking
when we lived in Hawaii. The entire house had linoleum so very easy
to clean up messes. It was almost always in the 80s outside so no
need for warm clothes.
Alysia
wrote:
>used to laugh to myself about the way little Thai children would run
> I lived in Thailand for almost three years when I was younger and
around with no pants on all day (so cute!)...but functional,
too. ....in the villages there was really no such thing as
carpet....if they had anything on the floor, it would have been
linoleum. If inside, the kids could pee at random and it would be
wiped up with a towel.
=================
This is pretty much what I did with my babe once he started walking
when we lived in Hawaii. The entire house had linoleum so very easy
to clean up messes. It was almost always in the 80s outside so no
need for warm clothes.
Alysia