[email protected]

This I brought over from another list. The discussion was interesting
enough that I figured I'd bring this post here.

>Kelly wrote:
> I *NEED* for him to know I will support such "crazy" ideas
>even though *I* wouldn't choose them (and I wish *he* wouldn't! <G>)



>>>Kelly, I hope it OK to get us off the topic of travel, but I'm
sorting out
my parenting philosophies, and wondering if you could elaborate on this
one
thing said......when you say this below, does this mean you do talk to
him
about how you wouldn't choose that *and* how you wish he wouldn't?

-=-=-=-=-

You betcha! I even have a book I'm going to ask him to read by a serial
killer, PeeWee Gaskins---who lived right here in SC. The SoB did
HORRIBLE things to young hitch-hikers, and I really, really DO want him
to understand that those kinds of people are out there. (Don't read
that autobiography unless you LIKE sleeping with the lights on!)

We hang around a lot of sweet, kind, gentle people, so Cam's "mean
radar" might not be working at 100%! <G>

Although *many* people are wonderful and friendly, it only takes *one*
psychopath to kill or torture my child.

-=-=-=-=-

>>> If you do, do you worry that just them knowing that you wish
otherwise might cause
them to want to hide things from you?

-=-=-=-

This has been a life-long process---this trust thang. It didn't happen
overnight. He doesn't hide things because of years and years of having
me trust him.

It's helped a LOT for him to see his friends' and cousins' parents who
DON'T trust at ALL. And it's helped to have me do what I say when he's
been in difficult situations already.

He KNOWS I am *there* forever and always---no matter what.

-=-=-=-=-

>>>Or do you find that your relationship still allows for them to be
open with you even when they know you wished
they would have done things differently?

-=-=-=-=-=-

Without a doubt.

I've shared my teenage and college stories---the good and the bad. And
I know my parents would shit if they heard some of the things *I* did.
<G> (nothing so wild as Linda though! <G>) But it was MY life, not
theirs. And I did feel that I could call my dad if I were ever in BAD
trouble. He was/is trustworthy.

As teens/young adults, I really do believe we feel we are invincible
and immortal. Age generally cures that. <G> Having children DEFINITELY
does. <BWG>

But that means that our own children will still feel that way
(invincible & immortal). And *I* think we really shouldn't try to take
that freedom and risk-taking away from them. It's what teens/young
adults DO.

That doesn't make it easy. <g>

-=-=-=-=-=-

>>>I ask because I want to have that kind of relationship with my kids,
but I
also want to be able to tell them what I really think, and offer them
my -
on a few things - strong opinions.

-=-=-=-

I can assure you that there aren't many people on the planet
with....um...stronger opinions than *I* have. <G> And I'm not shy about
letting you (or my children) know what they are!

But that doesn't mean I can control what they do when they are not
physically attached to me. (And I certainly can't control *you*! <g>)
As soon as they can drive, I am (and my opinions are) fairly obsolete
unless they trust me. Wholly and completely. And again, that doesn't
happen overnight. Years and years of trusting and respecting them.

-=-=-=-==-=-=

>>>I want them to know, though, that I
won't give them "I told you so's" or punish or whatever. Sometimes it
seems (from the outside) that some parents abstain from really trying to
persuade or dissuade their kids. I don't want to give up having that
kind
of influence on my kids.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Weeeeeellllll, I'm not immune from "I-told-you-so"! <G> I LIKE being
right. And I like being sure you remember it! <BWG>

BUT....I'm different with the boys. Generally, they come back and say,
"Mom, you were right."

When THAT happens, I gain HUGE trust points! They build up over time.
Gradually they started to realize that I *AM* often right and that they
*can* accept my opinions/concerns/advice as valuable and worthwhile.
But they really have to experience that and make those learning-takes
themselves.

Unfortunately, I see many unschooling parents who seem OK with not
giving any direction or advice. And, since I have such *definite*
opinions on what unschooling is and isn't <g>....I think my kids should
hear my opinions---IF I am respectful. That's part of my job: to give
my opinions and advice. The *trick* is not to require that they follow
it! <G> I need to be OK with that!

I think we get that influence by being as honest--------and
RIGHT!--------as humanly possible.

My credibility would plummet if I told Cam that he *would* be killed if
he hitch-hiked. If he hitch-hikes five times safely, I'm a liar.

Better to say that it's a *possibility*---and a *remote* possibility at
that. Nevertheless, it only takes ONE psycho....

I feel that I'm *very* influential. But I got that way by being as
honest as possible. They TRUST me.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Stand above the crowd! Get a free email address that expresses who you
are at http://domains.aol.com

keetry

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> >>> If you do, do you worry that just them knowing that you wish
> otherwise might cause
> them to want to hide things from you?
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> This has been a life-long process---this trust thang. It didn't
happen
> overnight. He doesn't hide things because of years and years of
having
> me trust him.
>
> It's helped a LOT for him to see his friends' and cousins' parents
who
> DON'T trust at ALL. And it's helped to have me do what I say when
he's
> been in difficult situations already.
>
> He KNOWS I am *there* forever and always---no matter what.
>
> -=-=-=-=-

I had a recent situation about this sort of thing come up with my
4yo. He has a 7yo who lives in the house behind us. Sometimes he
goes over there to play. The other day he came back and told me his
friend hurt him. I asked him what happened and he said his friend
choked him with his nunchuks. I asked where the adult was. He said
she didn't do anything. I got the idea she was in another room and
didn't know what happened. Later, my ds told me that his friend
plays a game that's a secret and he told my ds not to tell anyone
about it. For the record, it's a video game, not anything with my
ds. My ds wasn't terribly upset about this. He said the boy only
choked him for a second and then stopped. However, I told my ds that
he could not play in this boy's house anymore. He can still play
with him in the adjoining backyards and in our house. It occured to
me that now my ds might be less likely to tell me if something like
this happens again. I don't see any other way to handle it, though.


Alysia

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: keetry <keetry@...>

I had a recent situation about this sort of thing come up with my
4yo. He has a 7yo who lives in the house behind us. Sometimes he
goes over there to play. The other day he came back and told me his
friend hurt him. I asked him what happened and he said his friend
choked him with his nunchuks. I asked where the adult was. He said
she didn't do anything. I got the idea she was in another room and
didn't know what happened. Later, my ds told me that his friend
plays a game that's a secret and he told my ds not to tell anyone
about it. For the record, it's a video game, not anything with my
ds. My ds wasn't terribly upset about this. He said the boy only
choked him for a second and then stopped. However, I told my ds that
he could not play in this boy's house anymore. He can still play
with him in the adjoining backyards and in our house. It occured to
me that now my ds might be less likely to tell me if something like
this happens again. I don't see any other way to handle it, though.


-=-=-=-=-=-


Apologize and ask what *he* thinks y'all should do. Talk it out. Find
out what he likes about the boy. What frightens him. Whether he'd like
you nearby. What *his* feelings are.

Robyn Coburn's daughter, Jayn, had some issues a few years ago with a
neighbor child. Robyn spent months and months honoring Jayn's wish to
play with this child. Then she established some boundaries for the girl
while in her home. Then *more* boundaries. Then *more*. <g>

Eventually, after lots of angst (which Robyn shared with us over the
time), she told Jayn that she really didn't want her to hang out with
this child anymore. Jayn was at first upset---and then relieved.

Seems Jayn didn't know how to get out of the relationship. She liked
having a playmate, but didn't like the girl all that well. But she was
convenient and all. But Jayn was *glad* to not have this girl in her
life anymore.

I think letting your son know that you trust him and that you are there
for him---and that it's your job to protect him--is important. Ask him
to help you protect him. Ask him what he thinks a good plan would be.
Work *with* him.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

keetry

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> Apologize and ask what *he* thinks y'all should do. Talk it out.
Find
> out what he likes about the boy. What frightens him.

I did do this. My ds says he isn't frightened. He says he likes this
boy because he has lots of guns.

> I think letting your son know that you trust him and that you are
there
> for him---and that it's your job to protect him--is important. Ask
him
> to help you protect him. Ask him what he thinks a good plan would
be.
> Work *with* him.

What I'm afraid of is that this boy could do some serious harm to my
ds by accident. It's not that difficult to accidently choke someone
until they lose consciousness. There was, apparently, no direct
adult supervision even though someone was in the home with them.
This boy is 3 years older and much bigger than my ds so he could
easily overpower my ds. My ds isn't scared of him, though. He says
he doesn't think this boy would hurt him and he does think he could
defend himself/get away/make the other boy stop if he needed to. I
trust my son. I don't trust this other boy. Not because I think he's
a bad kid or anything like that but because he does things like the
choking and gets carried away and is much bigger than my ds and
doesn't seem to know when to stop.

Alysia

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: keetry <keetry@...>

I did do this. My ds says he isn't frightened. He says he likes this
boy because he has lots of guns.

-=-=-=-

Play ones or real ones?

Can you get him his own guns?

-=-=-=-=-


What I'm afraid of is that this boy could do some serious harm to my
ds by accident.

-=-=-=-=-

*I* would talk with the boy. Tell him my concerns. Ask what he thinks
he could do differently in order to be able to (to have the privilege
to) play with my son.

-=-=-=-=-=-

It's not that difficult to accidently choke someone
until they lose consciousness. There was, apparently, no direct
adult supervision even though someone was in the home with them.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Right. Maybe they just need to be supervised by *you* from now on.

-=-=-=-

This boy is 3 years older and much bigger than my ds so he could
easily overpower my ds. My ds isn't scared of him, though. He says
he doesn't think this boy would hurt him and he does think he could
defend himself/get away/make the other boy stop if he needed to.

-=-=-=-=-

Ask how.

-=-=-=-=-

I trust my son. I don't trust this other boy. Not because I think he's
a bad kid or anything like that but because he does things like the
choking and gets carried away and is much bigger than my ds and
doesn't seem to know when to stop.

-=-=-=-=-

If possible, I would try to establish trust between him and me. So that
he knows that I am a "good guy" and not out to harm or punish him.
Cam's friends eventually realized that I was on *their* sides and not
going to "tell" on them. That I was to be trusted.

It took a while, but most came around and see me as ---maybe not as an
equal, but certainly not as an adversary. Which is the way they see
their own parents and most other adults.

That may not be possible. Your instincts may be right. If that's the
case, I simply wouldn't allow them to be alone.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

keetry

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: keetry <keetry@...>
>
> I did do this. My ds says he isn't frightened. He says he likes
this
> boy because he has lots of guns.
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> Play ones or real ones?
>
> Can you get him his own guns?
>
> -=-=-=-=-

Play guns. We've been building up ds' arsenal. Apparently, it's not
enough yet and they aren't as cool as this other boy's. My ds
actually gave one of the guns I bought him to the other boy. *sigh*
>
>
> What I'm afraid of is that this boy could do some serious harm to
my
> ds by accident.
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> *I* would talk with the boy. Tell him my concerns. Ask what he
thinks
> he could do differently in order to be able to (to have the
privilege
> to) play with my son.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-

This has been difficult for me to do. The other kids run away as
soon as I say something. It's really strange. They appear to think
they are going to be in trouble. One of the boys I actually had to
touch his arm and tell him I wasn't mad and he wasn't in trouble. I
just wanted to ask him what he was doing because it looked like fun.
He looked so scared when I approached him. Every time this boy has
asked if my ds could play since I decided this he walks away fast
before I can say anything else.

> It's not that difficult to accidently choke someone
> until they lose consciousness. There was, apparently, no direct
> adult supervision even though someone was in the home with them.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> Right. Maybe they just need to be supervised by *you* from now on.
>
> -=-=-=-

Yep, I've told my son they can play outside when I'm watching or
they can play in our house.

> This boy is 3 years older and much bigger than my ds so he could
> easily overpower my ds. My ds isn't scared of him, though. He says
> he doesn't think this boy would hurt him and he does think he could
> defend himself/get away/make the other boy stop if he needed to.
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> Ask how.
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> I trust my son. I don't trust this other boy. Not because I think
he's
> a bad kid or anything like that but because he does things like the
> choking and gets carried away and is much bigger than my ds and
> doesn't seem to know when to stop.
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> If possible, I would try to establish trust between him and me. So
that
> he knows that I am a "good guy" and not out to harm or punish him.
> Cam's friends eventually realized that I was on *their* sides and
not
> going to "tell" on them. That I was to be trusted.

As I said above, this has been difficult so far. I'm working on it
by trying to just chat with the other kids when they are around.

Alysia