Teeth brushing
jamieminnis
Does anyone have ideas to encourage my 4 1/2 yo to brush his teeth?
He has always resisted it and, because of this and acid reflux, has
had to have major dental work done. Just so you know, he HATES it and
it is a true battle of wills, with me holding him tightly and brushing
while he screams. (This was obviously before we started unschooling
and I just don't know what to do.)
Jamie
He has always resisted it and, because of this and acid reflux, has
had to have major dental work done. Just so you know, he HATES it and
it is a true battle of wills, with me holding him tightly and brushing
while he screams. (This was obviously before we started unschooling
and I just don't know what to do.)
Jamie
barefootmamax4
--- In [email protected], "jamieminnis"
<jamieminnis@...> wrote:
-Kelly
<jamieminnis@...> wrote:
>and
> Does anyone have ideas to encourage my 4 1/2 yo to brush his teeth?
> He has always resisted it and, because of this and acid reflux, has
> had to have major dental work done. Just so you know, he HATES it
> it is a true battle of wills, with me holding him tightly andbrushing
> while he screams. (This was obviously before we started unschoolingHow about an electric toothbrush?
> and I just don't know what to do.)
>
> Jamie
-Kelly
Ulrike Haupt
Jamie
Teeth brushing is not as healthy as it is made out to be.
I have read horror stories about some of the effects the stuff that is put into toothpastes can have on teeth, gums and the body.
To eat an apple or carrot or piece of fullcorn bread cleanses the teeth good enough.
When my eldest son had to go to a dentist for a medical checkup for some certificate or other at the age of 28 or so he bought his first toothbrush and -paste ever. At the visit the dentist was amazed at the good conition of his teeth and gums and asked him what he was doing. Alfred said, "Do you want the nice answer or the true answer?" When the dentist heard that he never uses brush and paste he felt very validated in his own personal and professional aversion to the stuff :) I can't remember all the thigs Alfred related that the dentist had told him but it was said quite forcefully.
The health of teeth does not depend on what is done from the outside but on the nutrition.
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Teeth brushing is not as healthy as it is made out to be.
I have read horror stories about some of the effects the stuff that is put into toothpastes can have on teeth, gums and the body.
To eat an apple or carrot or piece of fullcorn bread cleanses the teeth good enough.
When my eldest son had to go to a dentist for a medical checkup for some certificate or other at the age of 28 or so he bought his first toothbrush and -paste ever. At the visit the dentist was amazed at the good conition of his teeth and gums and asked him what he was doing. Alfred said, "Do you want the nice answer or the true answer?" When the dentist heard that he never uses brush and paste he felt very validated in his own personal and professional aversion to the stuff :) I can't remember all the thigs Alfred related that the dentist had told him but it was said quite forcefully.
The health of teeth does not depend on what is done from the outside but on the nutrition.
Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lei_seattle7
--try the pink chewable tablet that shows all the bacteria, ask your
dentist about it. explain to the child that the sugarbugs loves to dig
holes & hide inside the tooth. the toothbrush/toothpaste brushes/washes
them out, make sure not to miss any tooth & spit out all the sugarbugs
in the sink or else, the bugs stays to dig & dig until child screams
because of pain or the dentist has to do it. hope that helps.
Lorelei
- In [email protected], "jamieminnis" <jamieminnis@...>
wrote:
dentist about it. explain to the child that the sugarbugs loves to dig
holes & hide inside the tooth. the toothbrush/toothpaste brushes/washes
them out, make sure not to miss any tooth & spit out all the sugarbugs
in the sink or else, the bugs stays to dig & dig until child screams
because of pain or the dentist has to do it. hope that helps.
Lorelei
- In [email protected], "jamieminnis" <jamieminnis@...>
wrote:
>and
> Does anyone have ideas to encourage my 4 1/2 yo to brush his teeth?
> He has always resisted it and, because of this and acid reflux, has
> had to have major dental work done. Just so you know, he HATES it
> it is a true battle of wills, with me holding him tightly andbrushing
> while he screams. (This was obviously before we started unschooling
> and I just don't know what to do.)
>
> Jamie
>
Lisa
I have a child in the exact situation.... I made sure to provide lots
of implements ... interesting power brushes, milder toothpaste (or
even no toothpaste!) and just modeled good dental hygiene. Making
it a battle isn't going to accomplish much other than proving to him
that you don't trust him and that he can't trust you. Forcing a child
who has what sounds like sensory issues and has a history of dental
issues is really setting him up for difficulty. My son has gotten
better about brushing now that he's noticed that sometimes people have
bad breath... he's 6 now and will say "wow mom you need to brush" I
always say "yes I had garlic for dinner " hoping that he will connect
that some foods make your breath stinkier and that some things like
poppy seeds, strawberries, blueberries etc make your teeth look icky
if you don't brush. Ultimately I leave it up to him ....I can fix his
teeth but his spirit might be trickier!
Lisa B
--- In [email protected], "jamieminnis"
<jamieminnis@...> wrote:
of implements ... interesting power brushes, milder toothpaste (or
even no toothpaste!) and just modeled good dental hygiene. Making
it a battle isn't going to accomplish much other than proving to him
that you don't trust him and that he can't trust you. Forcing a child
who has what sounds like sensory issues and has a history of dental
issues is really setting him up for difficulty. My son has gotten
better about brushing now that he's noticed that sometimes people have
bad breath... he's 6 now and will say "wow mom you need to brush" I
always say "yes I had garlic for dinner " hoping that he will connect
that some foods make your breath stinkier and that some things like
poppy seeds, strawberries, blueberries etc make your teeth look icky
if you don't brush. Ultimately I leave it up to him ....I can fix his
teeth but his spirit might be trickier!
Lisa B
--- In [email protected], "jamieminnis"
<jamieminnis@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have ideas to encourage my 4 1/2 yo to brush his teeth?
> He has always resisted it and, because of this and acid reflux, has
> had to have major dental work done. Just so you know, he HATES it and
> it is a true battle of wills, with me holding him tightly and brushing
> while he screams. (This was obviously before we started unschooling
> and I just don't know what to do.)
>
> Jamie
>
Schuyler
But that is a lie, and a scary lie at that.. The bacteria in your mouth don't destroy your teeth, it's the acids the bacteria produce that destry the enamel on your teeth. I wasn't a good brusher and didn't have any tooth decay until I was an adult, so brushing my teeth didn't seem to be necessary to guard my teeth from caries. Yes there are bugs on your teeth, but they aren't there digging into your teeth until a child screams. That's just so malicious and evil. They are just making a living eating the food that you eat. And no matter how hard you brush you won't get rid of all of them.
It is interesting, I've just been doing a quick and cursory exploration of the world of oral bacteria via google and found this: http://www.db.od.mah.se/car/data/kohlermut.html which shows that the earlier you get mutans streptococci the more prone to caries/cavities you are, with absolutely no discussion of how much you brush or floss your teeth. Here's an abstract about the natural history of Streptoccus sanguinis (a benign oral bacteria) http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/7/4018 I think I like it most because it refers to oral bacteria as "indigenous biota of the human oral cavity". Oh, how I love science!! There is this talk abstract: http://iadr.confex.com/iadr/2002SanDiego/techprogram/abstract_18332.htm which found no difference in colonization of mutans streptococci in caries free Swedish teenagers and caries prevelant Swedish teenagers. Similar finding here: http://jdr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/77/10/1851 with the added
comment that it isn't diet that is doing it. Oh, I could do this for a long time.
It's really cool. It isn't scary, or something to be used to scare a child with, they are cavities, holes in your teeth caused by acids. The bacteria, the indigenous biota, are just living there, they are indigenous. Well, they are indigenous from about 30 months old, on average. Yes, toothbrushing makes a difference http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract&ArtikelNr=16503&Ausgabe=225458&ProduktNr=224219 (an old paper, 1999, but cool for the British social class stuff -- I'm assuming that's what the manual versus non-manual mention is about). A big difference. But it isn't going to keep you clear of caries if you are prone to getting them. Hard cheese is supposed to be quite good for regulating the population of mutans streptococci, quick search shows that lactobacilli tends to keep populations of mutans streptococci in check. Xylitol has been shown to reduce plaque and when mother's chew it for the first couple of years of
their child's life the colonization of the child's teeth by mutans streptococci is delayed and thus caries are less likely to occur.
I don't want monsters in my mouth, it would scare me. I'd much rather indigenious biota sharing my body with me, I can enjoy that, while doing a bit of culling to keep the population for getting out of hand.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----------------------
--try the pink chewable tablet that shows all the bacteria, ask your
dentist about it. explain to the child that the sugarbugs loves to dig
holes & hide inside the tooth. the toothbrush/toothpaste brushes/washes
them out, make sure not to miss any tooth & spit out all the sugarbugs
in the sink or else, the bugs stays to dig & dig until child screams
because of pain or the dentist has to do it. hope that helps.
Lorelei
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It is interesting, I've just been doing a quick and cursory exploration of the world of oral bacteria via google and found this: http://www.db.od.mah.se/car/data/kohlermut.html which shows that the earlier you get mutans streptococci the more prone to caries/cavities you are, with absolutely no discussion of how much you brush or floss your teeth. Here's an abstract about the natural history of Streptoccus sanguinis (a benign oral bacteria) http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/7/4018 I think I like it most because it refers to oral bacteria as "indigenous biota of the human oral cavity". Oh, how I love science!! There is this talk abstract: http://iadr.confex.com/iadr/2002SanDiego/techprogram/abstract_18332.htm which found no difference in colonization of mutans streptococci in caries free Swedish teenagers and caries prevelant Swedish teenagers. Similar finding here: http://jdr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/77/10/1851 with the added
comment that it isn't diet that is doing it. Oh, I could do this for a long time.
It's really cool. It isn't scary, or something to be used to scare a child with, they are cavities, holes in your teeth caused by acids. The bacteria, the indigenous biota, are just living there, they are indigenous. Well, they are indigenous from about 30 months old, on average. Yes, toothbrushing makes a difference http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowAbstract&ArtikelNr=16503&Ausgabe=225458&ProduktNr=224219 (an old paper, 1999, but cool for the British social class stuff -- I'm assuming that's what the manual versus non-manual mention is about). A big difference. But it isn't going to keep you clear of caries if you are prone to getting them. Hard cheese is supposed to be quite good for regulating the population of mutans streptococci, quick search shows that lactobacilli tends to keep populations of mutans streptococci in check. Xylitol has been shown to reduce plaque and when mother's chew it for the first couple of years of
their child's life the colonization of the child's teeth by mutans streptococci is delayed and thus caries are less likely to occur.
I don't want monsters in my mouth, it would scare me. I'd much rather indigenious biota sharing my body with me, I can enjoy that, while doing a bit of culling to keep the population for getting out of hand.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----------------------
--try the pink chewable tablet that shows all the bacteria, ask your
dentist about it. explain to the child that the sugarbugs loves to dig
holes & hide inside the tooth. the toothbrush/toothpaste brushes/washes
them out, make sure not to miss any tooth & spit out all the sugarbugs
in the sink or else, the bugs stays to dig & dig until child screams
because of pain or the dentist has to do it. hope that helps.
Lorelei
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Gray
That's interesting, but what do you do when they have a cavity at the
dentist and it doesn't hurt? You've blown credibility and they
question everything else you've told them. My oldest children each
had one cavity, regardless of brushing or flossing tactics. I brush
and floss three times a day, don't drink a lot of sugary stuff, and
not only have 12 fillings, but nearly every year have to have at
least one filling drilled out and replaced. My six yo is the same
way...and he has the exact same hygiene habits as the older four
kids. We've never had a cavity that hurts.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
dentist and it doesn't hurt? You've blown credibility and they
question everything else you've told them. My oldest children each
had one cavity, regardless of brushing or flossing tactics. I brush
and floss three times a day, don't drink a lot of sugary stuff, and
not only have 12 fillings, but nearly every year have to have at
least one filling drilled out and replaced. My six yo is the same
way...and he has the exact same hygiene habits as the older four
kids. We've never had a cavity that hurts.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On May 8, 2008, at 3:39 AM, lei_seattle7 wrote:
> --try the pink chewable tablet that shows all the bacteria, ask your
> dentist about it. explain to the child that the sugarbugs loves to dig
> holes & hide inside the tooth. the toothbrush/toothpaste brushes/
> washes
> them out, make sure not to miss any tooth & spit out all the sugarbugs
> in the sink or else, the bugs stays to dig & dig until child screams
> because of pain or the dentist has to do it. hope that helps.
>
> Lorelei
>
> - In [email protected], "jamieminnis"
> <jamieminnis@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have ideas to encourage my 4 1/2 yo to brush his teeth?
> > He has always resisted it and, because of this and acid reflux, has
> > had to have major dental work done. Just so you know, he HATES it
> and
> > it is a true battle of wills, with me holding him tightly and
> brushing
> > while he screams. (This was obviously before we started unschooling
> > and I just don't know what to do.)
> >
> > Jamie
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
How about using xylitol mints and gum instead of brushing??
check xylitol.org
Alex P
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
check xylitol.org
Alex P
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Zoa Conner
Or peelu gum...
On 5/8/08 10:15 AM, "BRIAN POLIKOWSKY" <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
> How about using xylitol mints and gum instead of brushing??
>
> check xylitol.org
>
> Alex P
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
This is lying to your child, period. The information you suggest is simply not true. I have floosed and brushed every day for my entire 41 year old life, and yet every trip to the dentist shows up yet another cavity or some other form of decay. It's just the way I'm built. My husband on the other hand never flosses, never brushes at night and has never had a cavity. Would you want someone to motivate you to do something they thought was good for you by scaring the crap out of you?? Not very respectful or loving in my opinion!
Jodi
lei_seattle7 <lei_seattle7@...> wrote:
--try the pink chewable tablet that shows all the bacteria, ask your
dentist about it. explain to the child that the sugarbugs loves to dig
holes & hide inside the tooth. the toothbrush/toothpaste brushes/washes
them out, make sure not to miss any tooth & spit out all the sugarbugs
in the sink or else, the bugs stays to dig & dig until child screams
because of pain or the dentist has to do it. hope that helps.
Lorelei
- In [email protected], "jamieminnis" <jamieminnis@...>
wrote:
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi
lei_seattle7 <lei_seattle7@...> wrote:
--try the pink chewable tablet that shows all the bacteria, ask your
dentist about it. explain to the child that the sugarbugs loves to dig
holes & hide inside the tooth. the toothbrush/toothpaste brushes/washes
them out, make sure not to miss any tooth & spit out all the sugarbugs
in the sink or else, the bugs stays to dig & dig until child screams
because of pain or the dentist has to do it. hope that helps.
Lorelei
- In [email protected], "jamieminnis" <jamieminnis@...>
wrote:
>and
> Does anyone have ideas to encourage my 4 1/2 yo to brush his teeth?
> He has always resisted it and, because of this and acid reflux, has
> had to have major dental work done. Just so you know, he HATES it
> it is a true battle of wills, with me holding him tightly andbrushing
> while he screams. (This was obviously before we started unschooling---------------------------------
> and I just don't know what to do.)
>
> Jamie
>
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
Re: teeth brushing...if your child has weak enamel over-brushing can
CAUSE cavitites as well. I have strong enamel and take horrid care of
my teeth. I just turned 37 and have no cavities. Both my parents
have full dentures and both brothers have mouthes full of fillings.
But I can't for the life of me see telling a child that the "bugs"
will bore through the teeth until the child screams in pain will bring
you closer or make the child think you are nice. FWIW I'd leave the
kid alone. Tell the kid about brushing, why we do it and then leave
it be. My kids are not forced to brush their teeth. But they have
several flavors of toothpaste, different brushes, and gauze pads to
use instead of brushes if they wish. It's their mouth...I leave them
alone about it.
Karen
CAUSE cavitites as well. I have strong enamel and take horrid care of
my teeth. I just turned 37 and have no cavities. Both my parents
have full dentures and both brothers have mouthes full of fillings.
But I can't for the life of me see telling a child that the "bugs"
will bore through the teeth until the child screams in pain will bring
you closer or make the child think you are nice. FWIW I'd leave the
kid alone. Tell the kid about brushing, why we do it and then leave
it be. My kids are not forced to brush their teeth. But they have
several flavors of toothpaste, different brushes, and gauze pads to
use instead of brushes if they wish. It's their mouth...I leave them
alone about it.
Karen
Lorelei
-wow, never thought I'd get these reactions from parents. normally
with kids, when I say it, it didn't cause fear. just understanding
ONE cause of the effect they are presently experiencing. since the
child is only four & already have lots of work done or to be done, it
is already at the consequences level. sugarbugs are just kids term
easy for them to get, but if they like the scientific terms, that's
even great. I thought it's fun to clean your teeth when there's the
visual of colors, it's like washing off paint. you can also show
pictures of the tooth structure, when its just the enamel part, it
doesn't hurt yet, but when it goes deeper then you'd feel it. then
kids are somehow become self motivated. I thought, it's loving to
encourage children to care for their teeth for some prevention than
just let them experience the dental work needed. sorry, I, myself
still shed a tear or two when I'm on a dental chair, so it's hard for
me to see kids screaming during drill time. I believe genes,
nutrition, injury & hygiene determines teeth conditions. If you got
good genes, happy you. If you don't, it's nice to care about the 3
other ones. I didn't say, you have to force or scare. you explain it
in a fun way, you can even sing while the child is brushing. when a
child have colds or cough, you don't say that they're monsters in
their nose or hands, they're just germs that needs to be washed away
or get rid off, & careful not to spread it around.
Plus, a mom told me, she went to a community dental clinic for her
son's dental work. She was told that they will eventually report her
to CPS for neglect, if the lack of hygiene continues. I thought, it
was absurd, but that happened to her.
"a scary lie, malicious & evil!" Oh, my goodness! That just makes me
feel so welcome in this group! I thought, with suggestions, if
someone finds it good or helpful...then great. If not, oh well...next.
my first reaction was, "WOW!" I guess, that'll also be my last.
Lorelei
-- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
that destry the enamel on your teeth. I wasn't a good brusher and
didn't have any tooth decay until I was an adult, so brushing my
teeth didn't seem to be necessary to guard my teeth from caries. Yes
there are bugs on your teeth, but they aren't there digging into your
teeth until a child screams. That's just so malicious and evil. They
are just making a living eating the food that you eat. And no matter
how hard you brush you won't get rid of all of them.
http://www.db.od.mah.se/car/data/kohlermut.html which shows that the
earlier you get mutans streptococci the more prone to caries/cavities
you are, with absolutely no discussion of how much you brush or floss
your teeth. Here's an abstract about the natural history of
Streptoccus sanguinis (a benign oral bacteria)
http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/7/4018 I think I like it
most because it refers to oral bacteria as "indigenous biota of the
human oral cavity". Oh, how I love science!! There is this talk
abstract:
http://iadr.confex.com/iadr/2002SanDiego/techprogram/abstract_18332.ht
m which found no difference in colonization of mutans streptococci in
caries free Swedish teenagers and caries prevelant Swedish teenagers.
Similar finding here:
http://jdr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/77/10/1851 with the
added
The bacteria, the indigenous biota, are just living there, they are
indigenous. Well, they are indigenous from about 30 months old, on
average. Yes, toothbrushing makes a difference
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?
Aktion=ShowAbstract&ArtikelNr=16503&Ausgabe=225458&ProduktNr=224219
(an old paper, 1999, but cool for the British social class stuff --
I'm assuming that's what the manual versus non-manual mention is
about). A big difference. But it isn't going to keep you clear of
caries if you are prone to getting them. Hard cheese is supposed to
be quite good for regulating the population of mutans streptococci,
quick search shows that lactobacilli tends to keep populations of
mutans streptococci in check. Xylitol has been shown to reduce plaque
and when mother's chew it for the first couple of years of
while doing a bit of culling to keep the population for getting out
of hand.
with kids, when I say it, it didn't cause fear. just understanding
ONE cause of the effect they are presently experiencing. since the
child is only four & already have lots of work done or to be done, it
is already at the consequences level. sugarbugs are just kids term
easy for them to get, but if they like the scientific terms, that's
even great. I thought it's fun to clean your teeth when there's the
visual of colors, it's like washing off paint. you can also show
pictures of the tooth structure, when its just the enamel part, it
doesn't hurt yet, but when it goes deeper then you'd feel it. then
kids are somehow become self motivated. I thought, it's loving to
encourage children to care for their teeth for some prevention than
just let them experience the dental work needed. sorry, I, myself
still shed a tear or two when I'm on a dental chair, so it's hard for
me to see kids screaming during drill time. I believe genes,
nutrition, injury & hygiene determines teeth conditions. If you got
good genes, happy you. If you don't, it's nice to care about the 3
other ones. I didn't say, you have to force or scare. you explain it
in a fun way, you can even sing while the child is brushing. when a
child have colds or cough, you don't say that they're monsters in
their nose or hands, they're just germs that needs to be washed away
or get rid off, & careful not to spread it around.
Plus, a mom told me, she went to a community dental clinic for her
son's dental work. She was told that they will eventually report her
to CPS for neglect, if the lack of hygiene continues. I thought, it
was absurd, but that happened to her.
"a scary lie, malicious & evil!" Oh, my goodness! That just makes me
feel so welcome in this group! I thought, with suggestions, if
someone finds it good or helpful...then great. If not, oh well...next.
my first reaction was, "WOW!" I guess, that'll also be my last.
Lorelei
-- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
>mouth don't destroy your teeth, it's the acids the bacteria produce
> But that is a lie, and a scary lie at that.. The bacteria in your
that destry the enamel on your teeth. I wasn't a good brusher and
didn't have any tooth decay until I was an adult, so brushing my
teeth didn't seem to be necessary to guard my teeth from caries. Yes
there are bugs on your teeth, but they aren't there digging into your
teeth until a child screams. That's just so malicious and evil. They
are just making a living eating the food that you eat. And no matter
how hard you brush you won't get rid of all of them.
>exploration of the world of oral bacteria via google and found this:
> It is interesting, I've just been doing a quick and cursory
http://www.db.od.mah.se/car/data/kohlermut.html which shows that the
earlier you get mutans streptococci the more prone to caries/cavities
you are, with absolutely no discussion of how much you brush or floss
your teeth. Here's an abstract about the natural history of
Streptoccus sanguinis (a benign oral bacteria)
http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/7/4018 I think I like it
most because it refers to oral bacteria as "indigenous biota of the
human oral cavity". Oh, how I love science!! There is this talk
abstract:
http://iadr.confex.com/iadr/2002SanDiego/techprogram/abstract_18332.ht
m which found no difference in colonization of mutans streptococci in
caries free Swedish teenagers and caries prevelant Swedish teenagers.
Similar finding here:
http://jdr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/77/10/1851 with the
added
> comment that it isn't diet that is doing it. Oh, I could do thisfor a long time.
>a child with, they are cavities, holes in your teeth caused by acids.
> It's really cool. It isn't scary, or something to be used to scare
The bacteria, the indigenous biota, are just living there, they are
indigenous. Well, they are indigenous from about 30 months old, on
average. Yes, toothbrushing makes a difference
http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?
Aktion=ShowAbstract&ArtikelNr=16503&Ausgabe=225458&ProduktNr=224219
(an old paper, 1999, but cool for the British social class stuff --
I'm assuming that's what the manual versus non-manual mention is
about). A big difference. But it isn't going to keep you clear of
caries if you are prone to getting them. Hard cheese is supposed to
be quite good for regulating the population of mutans streptococci,
quick search shows that lactobacilli tends to keep populations of
mutans streptococci in check. Xylitol has been shown to reduce plaque
and when mother's chew it for the first couple of years of
> their child's life the colonization of the child's teeth by mutansstreptococci is delayed and thus caries are less likely to occur.
>rather indigenious biota sharing my body with me, I can enjoy that,
> I don't want monsters in my mouth, it would scare me. I'd much
while doing a bit of culling to keep the population for getting out
of hand.
>your
> Schuyler
> www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
>
> ----------------------
>
> --try the pink chewable tablet that shows all the bacteria, ask
> dentist about it. explain to the child that the sugarbugs loves todig
> holes & hide inside the tooth. the toothbrush/toothpastebrushes/washes
> them out, make sure not to miss any tooth & spit out all thesugarbugs
> in the sink or else, the bugs stays to dig & dig until childscreams
> because of pain or the dentist has to do it. hope that helps.
>
> Lorelei
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Ren Allen
~~
"a scary lie, malicious & evil!" ~~
If you're going to put something in quotes, please actually quote a
post. Because nobody said this.
The point was that it often doesn't help to overstate consequences to
children, because it can erode trust if the outcome isn't what Mom
said it would be. I think the use of color tablets or other items
might be great for some people! The question is whether you should
tell children they'll get cavities and pain if they don't brush.
Because some will rarely brush and never get a cavity, others will
brush faithfully and get lots! We don't want to mislead children in
order to get them to do something. That's all.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
"a scary lie, malicious & evil!" ~~
If you're going to put something in quotes, please actually quote a
post. Because nobody said this.
The point was that it often doesn't help to overstate consequences to
children, because it can erode trust if the outcome isn't what Mom
said it would be. I think the use of color tablets or other items
might be great for some people! The question is whether you should
tell children they'll get cavities and pain if they don't brush.
Because some will rarely brush and never get a cavity, others will
brush faithfully and get lots! We don't want to mislead children in
order to get them to do something. That's all.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Lorelei
--ok, message #32507/Schuyler said it. and again, wow!
- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>to
>
> ~~
> "a scary lie, malicious & evil!" ~~
>
> If you're going to put something in quotes, please actually quote a
> post. Because nobody said this.
>
> The point was that it often doesn't help to overstate consequences
> children, because it can erode trust if the outcome isn't what Mom
> said it would be. I think the use of color tablets or other items
> might be great for some people! The question is whether you should
> tell children they'll get cavities and pain if they don't brush.
>
> Because some will rarely brush and never get a cavity, others will
> brush faithfully and get lots! We don't want to mislead children in
> order to get them to do something. That's all.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
Ren Allen
--- In [email protected], "Lorelei" <lei_seattle7@...>
wrote:
at that."
Could you show me where it says "malicious and evil"? I don't see that
anywhere. I don't know what else an untruth could be called but a "lie".
Maybe that sounds harsh, but it happens so often that children get
exaggerated and lied to in order to manipulate them into some
desirable behavior. We try to encourage honesty and trust, rather
than overreactionary information that they might figure out isn't true.
Unschooling is hugely about exploring options and information, rather
than giving children one stilted bit of information to get a desired
behavior.
I personally have family members that rarely ever brush and have
perfect teeth. So the "pain" of dental work has never happened to them
in spite of not doing the customary prevention.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
wrote:
>Here's what she actually posted: "But that is a lie, and a scary lie
> --ok, message #32507/Schuyler said it. and again, wow!
at that."
Could you show me where it says "malicious and evil"? I don't see that
anywhere. I don't know what else an untruth could be called but a "lie".
Maybe that sounds harsh, but it happens so often that children get
exaggerated and lied to in order to manipulate them into some
desirable behavior. We try to encourage honesty and trust, rather
than overreactionary information that they might figure out isn't true.
Unschooling is hugely about exploring options and information, rather
than giving children one stilted bit of information to get a desired
behavior.
I personally have family members that rarely ever brush and have
perfect teeth. So the "pain" of dental work has never happened to them
in spite of not doing the customary prevention.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
One of the Wechts
SNIP < Yes there are bugs on your teeth, but they aren't there digging into your teeth until a child screams. That's just so malicious and evil. They are just making a living eating the food that you eat. > SNIP
It may be just me, but I read it as...
Hey, bugs are not "malicious and evil"
they are just "making a living eating the food..."
Beth in MD
where the 19yo who brushes the least and eats the most sweets has no cavities...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It may be just me, but I read it as...
Hey, bugs are not "malicious and evil"
they are just "making a living eating the food..."
Beth in MD
where the 19yo who brushes the least and eats the most sweets has no cavities...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
~~Oh, my goodness! That just makes me feel so welcome in this group! I thought, with suggestions, if someone finds it good or helpful...then great. If not, oh well...next.
my first reaction was, "WOW!" I guess, that'll also be my last.~~
I'm assuming you came here to learn about unschooling...I think I remember you telling us you are new to unschooling? I've been around for only about 10 months, so I consider myself a newbie too. On the description and suggestions on the yahoo group when you signed up, it is suggested to read for a few weeks or more to find out the tone of the group, find out more, and definitely wait awhile before offering suggestions. To protect the integrity of the group and unschooling principles, there are those here that will take umbrage to any talk that doesn't fully embrace trusting our kids, and not parenting by fear, punishment, bribery, or scare tactics. So I would encourage you to read, read, read, because there really is tons of wisdom and insight on this list. I for one have learned TONS. And it's not personal, that's what took a month or so for me to get. I would read a response and think, wow, that's harsh, and I learned that the responses come from those who have
been unschooling for a long time sharing their wisdom and experience. I hope you stick around to get the wisdom!
Jodi
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my first reaction was, "WOW!" I guess, that'll also be my last.~~
I'm assuming you came here to learn about unschooling...I think I remember you telling us you are new to unschooling? I've been around for only about 10 months, so I consider myself a newbie too. On the description and suggestions on the yahoo group when you signed up, it is suggested to read for a few weeks or more to find out the tone of the group, find out more, and definitely wait awhile before offering suggestions. To protect the integrity of the group and unschooling principles, there are those here that will take umbrage to any talk that doesn't fully embrace trusting our kids, and not parenting by fear, punishment, bribery, or scare tactics. So I would encourage you to read, read, read, because there really is tons of wisdom and insight on this list. I for one have learned TONS. And it's not personal, that's what took a month or so for me to get. I would read a response and think, wow, that's harsh, and I learned that the responses come from those who have
been unschooling for a long time sharing their wisdom and experience. I hope you stick around to get the wisdom!
Jodi
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
So I would encourage you to read, read,
read, because there really is tons of wisdom and insight on this list.
I for
one have learned TONS. And it's not personal, that's what took a month
or so
for me to get. I would read a response and think, wow, that's harsh,
and I
learned that the responses come from those who have
been unschooling for a long time sharing their wisdom and experience.
I hope
you stick around to get the wisdom!
-=-=-=-
Already gone.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Stand above the crowd! Get a free email address that expresses who you
are at http://domains.aol.com
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
So I would encourage you to read, read,
read, because there really is tons of wisdom and insight on this list.
I for
one have learned TONS. And it's not personal, that's what took a month
or so
for me to get. I would read a response and think, wow, that's harsh,
and I
learned that the responses come from those who have
been unschooling for a long time sharing their wisdom and experience.
I hope
you stick around to get the wisdom!
-=-=-=-
Already gone.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Stand above the crowd! Get a free email address that expresses who you
are at http://domains.aol.com
Melissa Gray
Even though she's gone, I want to continue the discussion. Because if
there are other people who are thinking along the same lines, dental
work is the same as any other thing in unschooling, it is what you
make it. Sam has had extensive drill-n-fill, and never ONCE has he
been scared, or in pain. We never made brushing a scare tactic, and
we never made a threat of going to the dentist. It just is.
She's passing on a lot of baggage because she's still shedding 'a
tear or two' when SHE is in the chair. But if her dentist is making
people scream, it's time to go. that's BS.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
there are other people who are thinking along the same lines, dental
work is the same as any other thing in unschooling, it is what you
make it. Sam has had extensive drill-n-fill, and never ONCE has he
been scared, or in pain. We never made brushing a scare tactic, and
we never made a threat of going to the dentist. It just is.
She's passing on a lot of baggage because she's still shedding 'a
tear or two' when SHE is in the chair. But if her dentist is making
people scream, it's time to go. that's BS.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On May 8, 2008, at 4:15 PM, Lorelei wrote:
> -wow, never thought I'd get these reactions from parents. normally
> with kids, when I say it, it didn't cause fear. just understanding
> ONE cause of the effect they are presently experiencing. since the
> child is only four & already have lots of work done or to be done, it
> is already at the consequences level. sugarbugs are just kids term
> easy for them to get, but if they like the scientific terms, that's
> even great. I thought it's fun to clean your teeth when there's the
> visual of colors, it's like washing off paint. you can also show
> pictures of the tooth structure, when its just the enamel part, it
> doesn't hurt yet, but when it goes deeper then you'd feel it. then
> kids are somehow become self motivated. I thought, it's loving to
> encourage children to care for their teeth for some prevention than
> just let them experience the dental work needed. sorry, I, myself
> still shed a tear or two when I'm on a dental chair, so it's hard for
> me to see kids screaming during drill time. I believe genes,
> nutrition, injury & hygiene determines teeth conditions. If you got
> good genes, happy you. If you don't, it's nice to care about the 3
> other ones. I didn't say, you have to force or scare. you explain it
> in a fun way, you can even sing while the child is brushing. when a
> child have colds or cough, you don't say that they're monsters in
> their nose or hands, they're just germs that needs to be washed away
> or get rid off, & careful not to spread it around.
>
> Plus, a mom told me, she went to a community dental clinic for her
> son's dental work. She was told that they will eventually report her
> to CPS for neglect, if the lack of hygiene continues. I thought, it
> was absurd, but that happened to her.
>
> "a scary lie, malicious & evil!" Oh, my goodness! That just makes me
> feel so welcome in this group! I thought, with suggestions, if
> someone finds it good or helpful...then great. If not, oh well...next.
> my first reaction was, "WOW!" I guess, that'll also be my last.
>
> Lorelei
>
> -- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > But that is a lie, and a scary lie at that.. The bacteria in your
> mouth don't destroy your teeth, it's the acids the bacteria produce
> that destry the enamel on your teeth. I wasn't a good brusher and
> didn't have any tooth decay until I was an adult, so brushing my
> teeth didn't seem to be necessary to guard my teeth from caries. Yes
> there are bugs on your teeth, but they aren't there digging into your
> teeth until a child screams. That's just so malicious and evil. They
> are just making a living eating the food that you eat. And no matter
> how hard you brush you won't get rid of all of them.
> >
> > It is interesting, I've just been doing a quick and cursory
> exploration of the world of oral bacteria via google and found this:
> http://www.db.od.mah.se/car/data/kohlermut.html which shows that the
> earlier you get mutans streptococci the more prone to caries/cavities
> you are, with absolutely no discussion of how much you brush or floss
> your teeth. Here's an abstract about the natural history of
> Streptoccus sanguinis (a benign oral bacteria)
> http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/7/4018 I think I like it
> most because it refers to oral bacteria as "indigenous biota of the
> human oral cavity". Oh, how I love science!! There is this talk
> abstract:
> http://iadr.confex.com/iadr/2002SanDiego/techprogram/abstract_18332.ht
> m which found no difference in colonization of mutans streptococci in
> caries free Swedish teenagers and caries prevelant Swedish teenagers.
> Similar finding here:
> http://jdr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/77/10/1851 with the
> added
> > comment that it isn't diet that is doing it. Oh, I could do this
> for a long time.
> >
> > It's really cool. It isn't scary, or something to be used to scare
> a child with, they are cavities, holes in your teeth caused by acids.
> The bacteria, the indigenous biota, are just living there, they are
> indigenous. Well, they are indigenous from about 30 months old, on
> average. Yes, toothbrushing makes a difference
> http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?
> Aktion=ShowAbstract&ArtikelNr=16503&Ausgabe=225458&ProduktNr=224219
> (an old paper, 1999, but cool for the British social class stuff --
> I'm assuming that's what the manual versus non-manual mention is
> about). A big difference. But it isn't going to keep you clear of
> caries if you are prone to getting them. Hard cheese is supposed to
> be quite good for regulating the population of mutans streptococci,
> quick search shows that lactobacilli tends to keep populations of
> mutans streptococci in check. Xylitol has been shown to reduce plaque
> and when mother's chew it for the first couple of years of
> > their child's life the colonization of the child's teeth by mutans
> streptococci is delayed and thus caries are less likely to occur.
> >
> > I don't want monsters in my mouth, it would scare me. I'd much
> rather indigenious biota sharing my body with me, I can enjoy that,
> while doing a bit of culling to keep the population for getting out
> of hand.
> >
> > Schuyler
> > www.waynforth.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> >
> > --try the pink chewable tablet that shows all the bacteria, ask
> your
> > dentist about it. explain to the child that the sugarbugs loves to
> dig
> > holes & hide inside the tooth. the toothbrush/toothpaste
> brushes/washes
> > them out, make sure not to miss any tooth & spit out all the
> sugarbugs
> > in the sink or else, the bugs stays to dig & dig until child
> screams
> > because of pain or the dentist has to do it. hope that helps.
> >
> > Lorelei
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Melissa Gray <autismhelp@...>
Even though she's gone, I want to continue the discussion. Because if
there are other people who are thinking along the same lines, dental
work is the same as any other thing in unschooling, it is what you
make it. Sam has had extensive drill-n-fill, and never ONCE has he
been scared, or in pain. We never made brushing a scare tactic, and
we never made a threat of going to the dentist. It just is.
-=-=-=-=-
I have a mouth full of fillings. And a crown. Ben has none, but he
suffers from receding gums (and has two surgeries to help mend them).
We're hoping (and so far it IS) that the boys get Bens' strong teeth
and my strong gums. <g>
I had a sadistic dentist (Dr Bauknight) as a child until, at 12, I
refused to ever go back to the mean SoB. My mother had to search all
over town for a nice one 'cause I would never have gone back to that
dentist. I worshipped Dr Ridenour until he died 14 years ago. What a
BLOW!
Neither of my boys have ever had a cavity. Our new dentist of 13 years,
Dr Duensing (his partner is---no joke: Dr John Holt! <g>), is
INCREDIBLY kind and gentle, and the boys have no issues going. It's a
very pleasant experience every time.
-=-=-=-=-=-
She's passing on a lot of baggage because she's still shedding 'a
tear or two' when SHE is in the chair. But if her dentist is making
people scream, it's time to go. that's BS.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I swear some dentists are right out of Little Shop of Horrors! I can't
believe how many folks still have sadistic dentists. There are GOOD
ones out there! Go find one!!!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Stand above the crowd! Get a free email address that expresses who you
are at http://domains.aol.com
From: Melissa Gray <autismhelp@...>
Even though she's gone, I want to continue the discussion. Because if
there are other people who are thinking along the same lines, dental
work is the same as any other thing in unschooling, it is what you
make it. Sam has had extensive drill-n-fill, and never ONCE has he
been scared, or in pain. We never made brushing a scare tactic, and
we never made a threat of going to the dentist. It just is.
-=-=-=-=-
I have a mouth full of fillings. And a crown. Ben has none, but he
suffers from receding gums (and has two surgeries to help mend them).
We're hoping (and so far it IS) that the boys get Bens' strong teeth
and my strong gums. <g>
I had a sadistic dentist (Dr Bauknight) as a child until, at 12, I
refused to ever go back to the mean SoB. My mother had to search all
over town for a nice one 'cause I would never have gone back to that
dentist. I worshipped Dr Ridenour until he died 14 years ago. What a
BLOW!
Neither of my boys have ever had a cavity. Our new dentist of 13 years,
Dr Duensing (his partner is---no joke: Dr John Holt! <g>), is
INCREDIBLY kind and gentle, and the boys have no issues going. It's a
very pleasant experience every time.
-=-=-=-=-=-
She's passing on a lot of baggage because she's still shedding 'a
tear or two' when SHE is in the chair. But if her dentist is making
people scream, it's time to go. that's BS.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I swear some dentists are right out of Little Shop of Horrors! I can't
believe how many folks still have sadistic dentists. There are GOOD
ones out there! Go find one!!!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Stand above the crowd! Get a free email address that expresses who you
are at http://domains.aol.com
Carron Armstrong
When my son Zack decided to stop brushing years ago, I wasn't happy about
it. I have bad teeth, and his dad's aren't much better. In fact, Zack had
his first crowns when he was 7. We had a heck of a time finding a dentist
that we felt comfortable with. Our dentist was fabulous, but Zack still
needed those crowns. So, maybe I was buying into conventional thinking, but
if I could help Zack avoid any further discomfort, I was all for it.
It turned out that he just didn't like the toothpaste. He had switched from
a fruit flavored kid toothpaste to a minty adult paste. He discovered that
he hates mint, but didn't realize that he could just switch back to his old
toothpaste. Now he uses that Crest citrus flavor, which has some mint in
it, but he doesn't seem to mind that.
So maybe it's as simple as not liking the taste of the toothpaste.
Carron
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it. I have bad teeth, and his dad's aren't much better. In fact, Zack had
his first crowns when he was 7. We had a heck of a time finding a dentist
that we felt comfortable with. Our dentist was fabulous, but Zack still
needed those crowns. So, maybe I was buying into conventional thinking, but
if I could help Zack avoid any further discomfort, I was all for it.
It turned out that he just didn't like the toothpaste. He had switched from
a fruit flavored kid toothpaste to a minty adult paste. He discovered that
he hates mint, but didn't realize that he could just switch back to his old
toothpaste. Now he uses that Crest citrus flavor, which has some mint in
it, but he doesn't seem to mind that.
So maybe it's as simple as not liking the taste of the toothpaste.
Carron
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
Isn't it funny when a really big deal turns out to be about something so simple?!? I laughed when I read this, because a few weeks ago Jade (one of my 3 1/2 year old twin girls) told me she didn't ever want to brush because the toothpaste is 'howibwe'...it was kids minty something or other. After she told me that we went out and found Tom's apricot flavour (tastes like jam) and she's been brushing non-stop ever since. Oh, and they also got to pick out a fancy motorized Dora toothbrush which delights them to no end :).
Jodi
Carron Armstrong <carronna@...> wrote:
When my son Zack decided to stop brushing years ago, I wasn't happy about
it. I have bad teeth, and his dad's aren't much better. In fact, Zack had
his first crowns when he was 7. We had a heck of a time finding a dentist
that we felt comfortable with. Our dentist was fabulous, but Zack still
needed those crowns. So, maybe I was buying into conventional thinking, but
if I could help Zack avoid any further discomfort, I was all for it.
It turned out that he just didn't like the toothpaste. He had switched from
a fruit flavored kid toothpaste to a minty adult paste. He discovered that
he hates mint, but didn't realize that he could just switch back to his old
toothpaste. Now he uses that Crest citrus flavor, which has some mint in
it, but he doesn't seem to mind that.
So maybe it's as simple as not liking the taste of the toothpaste.
Carron
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi
Carron Armstrong <carronna@...> wrote:
When my son Zack decided to stop brushing years ago, I wasn't happy about
it. I have bad teeth, and his dad's aren't much better. In fact, Zack had
his first crowns when he was 7. We had a heck of a time finding a dentist
that we felt comfortable with. Our dentist was fabulous, but Zack still
needed those crowns. So, maybe I was buying into conventional thinking, but
if I could help Zack avoid any further discomfort, I was all for it.
It turned out that he just didn't like the toothpaste. He had switched from
a fruit flavored kid toothpaste to a minty adult paste. He discovered that
he hates mint, but didn't realize that he could just switch back to his old
toothpaste. Now he uses that Crest citrus flavor, which has some mint in
it, but he doesn't seem to mind that.
So maybe it's as simple as not liking the taste of the toothpaste.
Carron
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
I would just like to vent a little about being out today with two other unschooling families. I am SO craving spending some time with some radical unschoolers!!! I have met lots of people who keep their kids out of school, put it that way. I am so bloody sick of hearing about rules, and 'we're unschooling but we still ____', and hearing people say, 'johnny, that's enough cake', or 'wait until everyone's done before you get up from the table', or 'we have to have rules in our house about food or I'd be cleaning up after them all the time'. It's like they still think that if they totally trusted their kids that total and permanent chaos would ensue. Isn't that the fear at the beginning?? But some of these moms have been 'unschooling' for almost 10 years! They were so suprised today when we were all offered cake - that my girls said they weren't hungry. They were all like, 'wow'. Perhaps they're more used to their kids filling their faces with cake when they get the
chance. Then one of the moms told me how she made her son say thank you to a complete stranger, and how he looked uncomfortable, but that she didn't want other people thinking her kids are rude because they're homeschooled so she forces them to be polite...argh!!! I have made the effort to meet SO many unschoolers here, and each one has a limit on SOMETHING, whether it's sugar, tv, bedtime, you name it, I haven't met one singe FREE child that is completely trusted. And then my very schooled brain gears up and says, but maybe they're right to be setting limits, blah blah blah, even though I KNOW in my heart of hearts that giving my girls true freedom and completely trusting them is the right thing, and it's what is making Ryan and I grow and grow and grow like we've never grown before. I just so want to have the experience of hanging out with parents who don't set limits, and to experience for myself firsthand that the kids are turning out just fine, and are in fact
great kids. I mean I've read about lots of your kids here and in books and on websites, and I'm sure they ARE great, but it's all still so far-removed from my in-the-flesh reality that my crazy brain still engages with bullshit about whether I'm doing the right thing or not. I would LOVE to make it to a conference, but they're just too darn far away, and we just don't have the money to do it this year, so for now, I just feel lonely in radical-unschooling land! I was so excited today about meeting some long-time unschoolers, and it turned out so differently than I expected. Thanks for listening, I honestly don't know where else to pour out this discouragement.
Jodi
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chance. Then one of the moms told me how she made her son say thank you to a complete stranger, and how he looked uncomfortable, but that she didn't want other people thinking her kids are rude because they're homeschooled so she forces them to be polite...argh!!! I have made the effort to meet SO many unschoolers here, and each one has a limit on SOMETHING, whether it's sugar, tv, bedtime, you name it, I haven't met one singe FREE child that is completely trusted. And then my very schooled brain gears up and says, but maybe they're right to be setting limits, blah blah blah, even though I KNOW in my heart of hearts that giving my girls true freedom and completely trusting them is the right thing, and it's what is making Ryan and I grow and grow and grow like we've never grown before. I just so want to have the experience of hanging out with parents who don't set limits, and to experience for myself firsthand that the kids are turning out just fine, and are in fact
great kids. I mean I've read about lots of your kids here and in books and on websites, and I'm sure they ARE great, but it's all still so far-removed from my in-the-flesh reality that my crazy brain still engages with bullshit about whether I'm doing the right thing or not. I would LOVE to make it to a conference, but they're just too darn far away, and we just don't have the money to do it this year, so for now, I just feel lonely in radical-unschooling land! I was so excited today about meeting some long-time unschoolers, and it turned out so differently than I expected. Thanks for listening, I honestly don't know where else to pour out this discouragement.
Jodi
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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Schuyler
Well, that's what I intended, so I'm glad I wasn't so convulated that it was misinterpreted by everyone.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: One of the Wechts <erw@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 9 May, 2008 1:09:33 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Teeth brushing
SNIP < Yes there are bugs on your teeth, but they aren't there digging into your teeth until a child screams. That's just so malicious and evil. They are just making a living eating the food that you eat. > SNIP
It may be just me, but I read it as...
Hey, bugs are not "malicious and evil"
they are just "making a living eating the food..."
Beth in MD
where the 19yo who brushes the least and eats the most sweets has no cavities...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: One of the Wechts <erw@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 9 May, 2008 1:09:33 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Teeth brushing
SNIP < Yes there are bugs on your teeth, but they aren't there digging into your teeth until a child screams. That's just so malicious and evil. They are just making a living eating the food that you eat. > SNIP
It may be just me, but I read it as...
Hey, bugs are not "malicious and evil"
they are just "making a living eating the food..."
Beth in MD
where the 19yo who brushes the least and eats the most sweets has no cavities...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
--- In [email protected], "One of the Wechts"
<erw@...> wrote:
malicious and evil. They are just making a living eating the food
that you eat. > SNIP
Yep, that's how I read it, too. You can't assign evil intent to
bacteria. They just do what they do to survive and reproduce. They
have no intent, good or bad, other than that.
Alysia
<erw@...> wrote:
>digging into your teeth until a child screams. That's just so
>
> SNIP < Yes there are bugs on your teeth, but they aren't there
malicious and evil. They are just making a living eating the food
that you eat. > SNIP
>has no cavities...
> It may be just me, but I read it as...
>
> Hey, bugs are not "malicious and evil"
> they are just "making a living eating the food..."
>
>
> Beth in MD
> where the 19yo who brushes the least and eats the most sweets
Yep, that's how I read it, too. You can't assign evil intent to
bacteria. They just do what they do to survive and reproduce. They
have no intent, good or bad, other than that.
Alysia
Melissa Gray
We had that problem with the unschooling group here, and so a friend
started a new unschooling group. It wasn't radical enough for some
(because we had a list of expectations, a must after someone's child
destroyed a rec center room we were using) and so they started
another group. Surely there are others in your area who are more
radical?
I know it's hard. When I was in the first group, I felt so dragged
down by all the "I unschool except math," and a lot of the limits
talk. I stopped going to anything because frankly, it was easier to
be around NO ONE than it was to be around unschoolers who were
undermining my radical adventures.
You're welcome to come visit us for a while. I don't know how far
Oklahoma is from you...but we have a big house, and we could make our
own mini-conference. :-)
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
started a new unschooling group. It wasn't radical enough for some
(because we had a list of expectations, a must after someone's child
destroyed a rec center room we were using) and so they started
another group. Surely there are others in your area who are more
radical?
I know it's hard. When I was in the first group, I felt so dragged
down by all the "I unschool except math," and a lot of the limits
talk. I stopped going to anything because frankly, it was easier to
be around NO ONE than it was to be around unschoolers who were
undermining my radical adventures.
You're welcome to come visit us for a while. I don't know how far
Oklahoma is from you...but we have a big house, and we could make our
own mini-conference. :-)
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane
blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com
On May 9, 2008, at 1:43 AM, Jodi Bezzola wrote:
> I would just like to vent a little about being out today with two
> other unschooling families. I am SO craving spending some time with
> some radical unschoolers!!! I have met lots of people who keep
> their kids out of school, put it that way. I am so bloody sick of
> hearing about rules, and 'we're unschooling but we still ____', and
> hearing people say, 'johnny, that's enough cake', or 'wait until
> everyone's done before you get up from the table', or 'we have to
> have rules in our house about food or I'd be cleaning up after them
> all the time'. It's like they still think that if they totally
> trusted their kids that total and permanent chaos would ensue.
> Isn't that the fear at the beginning?? But some of these moms have
> been 'unschooling' for almost 10 years! They were so suprised today
> when we were all offered cake - that my girls said they weren't
> hungry. They were all like, 'wow'. Perhaps they're more used to
> their kids filling their faces with cake when they get the
> chance. Then one of the moms told me how she made her son say thank
> you to a complete stranger, and how he looked uncomfortable, but
> that she didn't want other people thinking her kids are rude
> because they're homeschooled so she forces them to be
> polite...argh!!! I have made the effort to meet SO many unschoolers
> here, and each one has a limit on SOMETHING, whether it's sugar,
> tv, bedtime, you name it, I haven't met one singe FREE child that
> is completely trusted. And then my very schooled brain gears up and
> says, but maybe they're right to be setting limits, blah blah blah,
> even though I KNOW in my heart of hearts that giving my girls true
> freedom and completely trusting them is the right thing, and it's
> what is making Ryan and I grow and grow and grow like we've never
> grown before. I just so want to have the experience of hanging out
> with parents who don't set limits, and to experience for myself
> firsthand that the kids are turning out just fine, and are in fact
> great kids. I mean I've read about lots of your kids here and in
> books and on websites, and I'm sure they ARE great, but it's all
> still so far-removed from my in-the-flesh reality that my crazy
> brain still engages with bullshit about whether I'm doing the right
> thing or not. I would LOVE to make it to a conference, but they're
> just too darn far away, and we just don't have the money to do it
> this year, so for now, I just feel lonely in radical-unschooling
> land! I was so excited today about meeting some long-time
> unschoolers, and it turned out so differently than I expected.
> Thanks for listening, I honestly don't know where else to pour out
> this discouragement.
>
> Jodi
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
> Try it now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
--- In [email protected], "Carron Armstrong"
<carronna@...> wrote:
burns their mouths. That never would've occured to me because I like
the hot cinnamon. My oldest used the vanilla flavored and my younger
one uses bubble or anise.
Alysia
<carronna@...> wrote:
>switched from
> It turned out that he just didn't like the toothpaste. He had
> a fruit flavored kid toothpaste to a minty adult paste. Hediscovered that
> he hates mint,Neither of my boys can use the mint toothpaste. They say it's hot and
burns their mouths. That never would've occured to me because I like
the hot cinnamon. My oldest used the vanilla flavored and my younger
one uses bubble or anise.
Alysia
Maisha Khalfani
<<I am SO craving spending some time with some radical unschoolers!!!>>
Jodi I feel your pain! We are actually going to the LnL conference this
year. I need to see Unschooling and what it looks like. I need to meet
some of the people on this list. More importantly, dh needs to meet some of
the dads (wink, wink).
{by the way well be the very tall African Americans with four kids and
ethnic names it wont be hard to spot us :) }
I am around other homeschoolers/Unschoolers, but they still believe in
chores, bedtimes, adults as authority, etc. It makes me cringe. And I know
Im seen as the radical mama Im okay with that though. As a matter of
fact, I think the only person near me is Jane and I never seem to get a
chance to hook up with her. And she has four kids the same ages as mine!
Sheesh! Well have to make a play date and stick to it.
I think Ive been on this list just about as long as you have and I *still*
feel like a newbie! I guess that means that every day is a new day and we
are still learning we are still Unschooling ourselves.
Namasté
be at peace,
Maisha
<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/> Khalfani Family Adventures
When a big kid hits a little kid on the playground, we call him a bully;
five years later he punches a woman for her wallet and is called a mugger;
later still, when he slugs a fellow worker who insults him, he is called a
troublemaker, but when he becomes a father and hits his tiresome,
disobedient or disrespectful child, we call him a disciplinarian. Why is
this rung on a ladder of interpersonal violence regarded so differently from
the rest? ~ Penelope Leach
Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and
affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is
more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present.
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi I feel your pain! We are actually going to the LnL conference this
year. I need to see Unschooling and what it looks like. I need to meet
some of the people on this list. More importantly, dh needs to meet some of
the dads (wink, wink).
{by the way well be the very tall African Americans with four kids and
ethnic names it wont be hard to spot us :) }
I am around other homeschoolers/Unschoolers, but they still believe in
chores, bedtimes, adults as authority, etc. It makes me cringe. And I know
Im seen as the radical mama Im okay with that though. As a matter of
fact, I think the only person near me is Jane and I never seem to get a
chance to hook up with her. And she has four kids the same ages as mine!
Sheesh! Well have to make a play date and stick to it.
I think Ive been on this list just about as long as you have and I *still*
feel like a newbie! I guess that means that every day is a new day and we
are still learning we are still Unschooling ourselves.
Namasté
be at peace,
Maisha
<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/> Khalfani Family Adventures
When a big kid hits a little kid on the playground, we call him a bully;
five years later he punches a woman for her wallet and is called a mugger;
later still, when he slugs a fellow worker who insults him, he is called a
troublemaker, but when he becomes a father and hits his tiresome,
disobedient or disrespectful child, we call him a disciplinarian. Why is
this rung on a ladder of interpersonal violence regarded so differently from
the rest? ~ Penelope Leach
Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and
affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is
more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present.
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
keep their >kids out of school, put it that way. I am so bloody
sick of hearing >about rules,
I have found myself distancing from my friends who were AP and
homeschoolers because they have so many rules and restrictions on
their kids. I wouldn't mind that so much if the kids didn't look so
sad and forlorn, especially when they see my child eating something
they can't have or hear him talk about a TV show they can't watch.
Then, of course, there are the looks from the other parents that
convey that they think I am contributing to the downfall of society.
How could I possibly let my child watch Cartoon Network when he's
only 4?! I haven't had any luck meeting others like me, either. I've
resigned myself to the fact that, for now at least, I'll have to
find support, help, info, sanctuary online.
Alysia
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>with >some radical unschoolers!!! I have met lots of people who
> I would just like to vent a little about being out today with two
>other unschooling families. I am SO craving spending some time
keep their >kids out of school, put it that way. I am so bloody
sick of hearing >about rules,
I have found myself distancing from my friends who were AP and
homeschoolers because they have so many rules and restrictions on
their kids. I wouldn't mind that so much if the kids didn't look so
sad and forlorn, especially when they see my child eating something
they can't have or hear him talk about a TV show they can't watch.
Then, of course, there are the looks from the other parents that
convey that they think I am contributing to the downfall of society.
How could I possibly let my child watch Cartoon Network when he's
only 4?! I haven't had any luck meeting others like me, either. I've
resigned myself to the fact that, for now at least, I'll have to
find support, help, info, sanctuary online.
Alysia
barefootmamax4
--- In [email protected], Melissa Gray <autismhelp@...>
wrote:
repair on a chipped tooth. They have never been afraid or screamed or
shed tears.They tell me they like to go to the dentist, they think it
is fun. Me,personally,I'm terrified, and I put off going as long as I
can even though our dentist is good and has never hurt me. He has also
said that the cavities I have are likely caused by bad bacteria and the
deep natural grooves in the teeth that no amount of brushing can clean.
-Kelly
wrote:
>I have to agree here. Two of my kids have had fillings and one had a
> Sam has had extensive drill-n-fill, and never ONCE has he
> been scared, or in pain. We never made brushing a scare tactic, and
> we never made a threat of going to the dentist. It just is.
repair on a chipped tooth. They have never been afraid or screamed or
shed tears.They tell me they like to go to the dentist, they think it
is fun. Me,personally,I'm terrified, and I put off going as long as I
can even though our dentist is good and has never hurt me. He has also
said that the cavities I have are likely caused by bad bacteria and the
deep natural grooves in the teeth that no amount of brushing can clean.
-Kelly