Conundrum
Karen Swanay
OK we haven't always done this way of parenting or living and I'm
trying to change that. To that end I haven't asked the boys to do
anything. Three times this week Liam (9) pitched in and washed some
dishes and cleaned their room without being asked to do so. When he
told me he was clearly looking for praise. I felt (and may have been
wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him was the
right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was a
big help to me." He was happy and it was exactly what I would have
said to my husband had he done it. Then my 11 yr old was upset
because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that and
I didn't."
ARGH what do I do there? At the time I said something like "Well, he
just did it. I didn't ask him to but he did it to help out and I
appreciate it when I get help." I was trying not to take anything
away from Liam while comforting John. I did tell John that I loved
him and was glad he was my son but I didn't know how to fix it. The
option to pitch in and help is always there, there is plenty to do in
a day around the house. Liam doesn't always do things like that. So
it's not as if John wouldn't have the chance. He just doesn't want
to...but he doesn't want Liam getting praise I think. I really don't
know. I probably screwed this up. This is so hard when there is more
than one kid to tend to especially when their needs directly conflict
or preempt each others'.
Karen
trying to change that. To that end I haven't asked the boys to do
anything. Three times this week Liam (9) pitched in and washed some
dishes and cleaned their room without being asked to do so. When he
told me he was clearly looking for praise. I felt (and may have been
wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him was the
right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was a
big help to me." He was happy and it was exactly what I would have
said to my husband had he done it. Then my 11 yr old was upset
because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that and
I didn't."
ARGH what do I do there? At the time I said something like "Well, he
just did it. I didn't ask him to but he did it to help out and I
appreciate it when I get help." I was trying not to take anything
away from Liam while comforting John. I did tell John that I loved
him and was glad he was my son but I didn't know how to fix it. The
option to pitch in and help is always there, there is plenty to do in
a day around the house. Liam doesn't always do things like that. So
it's not as if John wouldn't have the chance. He just doesn't want
to...but he doesn't want Liam getting praise I think. I really don't
know. I probably screwed this up. This is so hard when there is more
than one kid to tend to especially when their needs directly conflict
or preempt each others'.
Karen
Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 29, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Karen Swanay wrote:
smiled and let it go right on by.
having to tell John you love him and you're glad he's your son? That's
just way way too much heaviness invested in a little cleaning up
around the house.
on just saying simple "thanks" more often, to everyone in the family.
have grinned at the second kid, complaining that I thanked his brother
for helping out? Seriously? You almost made it seem like you do NOT
value him as much by feeling you had to make a big point that you do.
If he's needing to feel appreciated, then notice the things he
deserves appreciation for and give him a simple and honest thank you.
You could even ask him to do simple things - "Hey, sweetie, could you
hand me that book?" "Thank you."
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> OK we haven't always done this way of parenting or living and I'mStop counting.
> trying to change that. To that end I haven't asked the boys to do
> anything. Three times this week Liam (9) pitched in and washed some
> dishes and cleaned their room without being asked to do so.
> When heMaybe he was looking for appreciation.
> told me he was clearly looking for praise.
> I felt (and may have beenThat's not "praise." That is a thank you.
> wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him was the
> right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was a
> big help to me."
> He was happy and it was exactly what I would haveKaren - that's FUNNY - I'd have been giggling and would have just
> said to my husband had he done it. Then my 11 yr old was upset
> because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that and
> I didn't."
smiled and let it go right on by.
>Chill (as my kids would say).
>
> ARGH what do I do there?
> At the time I said something like "Well, heToo much talk, I think. Too much about the other kid, for sure.
> just did it. I didn't ask him to but he did it to help out and I
> appreciate it when I get help."
> I was trying not to take anythingToo much. You told Liam thank you for something he did and now you're
> away from Liam while comforting John. I did tell John that I loved
> him and was glad he was my son but I didn't know how to fix it.
having to tell John you love him and you're glad he's your son? That's
just way way too much heaviness invested in a little cleaning up
around the house.
> TheMaybe that's because gratitude is too scarce around there? Maybe focus
> option to pitch in and help is always there, there is plenty to do in
> a day around the house. Liam doesn't always do things like that. So
> it's not as if John wouldn't have the chance. He just doesn't want
> to...but he doesn't want Liam getting praise I think.
on just saying simple "thanks" more often, to everyone in the family.
> I really don'tI think you blew it up, yourself. Quite honestly, I probably would
> know. I probably screwed this up. This is so hard when there is more
> than one kid to tend to especially when their needs directly conflict
> or preempt each others'.
have grinned at the second kid, complaining that I thanked his brother
for helping out? Seriously? You almost made it seem like you do NOT
value him as much by feeling you had to make a big point that you do.
If he's needing to feel appreciated, then notice the things he
deserves appreciation for and give him a simple and honest thank you.
You could even ask him to do simple things - "Hey, sweetie, could you
hand me that book?" "Thank you."
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Well I mentioned how often because John was upset that Liam had done
it so often.
******************************************
Well it's not that he never hears thank you. It's that pre-USing the
major commodities around here were the conventional things like toeing
the line with keeping a clean room and helping to clean up. So I
think they still see it as having more value than something else.
Maybe. I'm not entirely sure what anyone but me actually thinks. And
I kind of panicked there and didn't want to hurt John or Liam.
*****************************************************************************
OK now I'm confused. I thought I wasn't to ask them to do anything?
Karen
> Stop counting.*****************************************
Well I mentioned how often because John was upset that Liam had done
it so often.
******************************************
>*******************************************
> Too much. You told Liam thank you for something he did and now you're
> having to tell John you love him and you're glad he's your son? That's
> just way way too much heaviness invested in a little cleaning up
> around the house.
Well it's not that he never hears thank you. It's that pre-USing the
major commodities around here were the conventional things like toeing
the line with keeping a clean room and helping to clean up. So I
think they still see it as having more value than something else.
Maybe. I'm not entirely sure what anyone but me actually thinks. And
I kind of panicked there and didn't want to hurt John or Liam.
*****************************************************************************
>*****************************************************************
> I think you blew it up, yourself. Quite honestly, I probably would
> have grinned at the second kid, complaining that I thanked his brother
> for helping out? Seriously? You almost made it seem like you do NOT
> value him as much by feeling you had to make a big point that you do.
> If he's needing to feel appreciated, then notice the things he
> deserves appreciation for and give him a simple and honest thank you.
> You could even ask him to do simple things - "Hey, sweetie, could you
> hand me that book?" "Thank you."
OK now I'm confused. I thought I wasn't to ask them to do anything?
Karen
keetry
--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
said something like, "Good job!" Expressing appreciation for
something is not the same. I always try to express my appreciation
for things the people around me do.
to do or hasn't found that one or a few things that he really likes
doing. You could try giving him some suggestions of things he could
do with the understanding that he doesn't have to, no expectations
attached, or asked him if there are particular things he would like
to do. The other thing I can think of is to express your
appreciation for other things that John does. Those things don't
have to be tied to you, either. It could be the way he plays a video
game or dances around when he's listening to music, fun things.
Alysia
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>been
> When he
> told me he was clearly looking for praise. I felt (and may have
> wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him wasthe
> right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was aFrom what I understand, this isn't praise. Praise would be if you
> big help to me."
said something like, "Good job!" Expressing appreciation for
something is not the same. I always try to express my appreciation
for things the people around me do.
> Then my 11 yr old was upsetand
> because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that
> I didn't."Maybe he does want to help out more but he doesn't really know what
>
> ARGH what do I do there?
to do or hasn't found that one or a few things that he really likes
doing. You could try giving him some suggestions of things he could
do with the understanding that he doesn't have to, no expectations
attached, or asked him if there are particular things he would like
to do. The other thing I can think of is to express your
appreciation for other things that John does. Those things don't
have to be tied to you, either. It could be the way he plays a video
game or dances around when he's listening to music, fun things.
Alysia
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 29, 2008, at 12:10 PM, Karen Swanay wrote:
that the only proper response is "Okay."
Wouldn't you ask a friend or your husband for a favor? And wouldn't
you accept "Sorry, can't right now," as an answer?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> "Hey, sweetie, could youDon't require them to do anything. Don't ask with the expectation
>> hand me that book?" "Thank you."
> *****************************************************************
>
> OK now I'm confused. I thought I wasn't to ask them to do anything?
that the only proper response is "Okay."
Wouldn't you ask a friend or your husband for a favor? And wouldn't
you accept "Sorry, can't right now," as an answer?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
>OK now I'm confused. I thought I wasn't to ask them to do anything?Huh? Sure you can - just as you'd ask a spouse or friend for a hand when
you actually NEED a hand - for instance, I'll ask DS to get the mayo out
of the fridge for me while I'm making tuna sandwiches, just as I'd ask
DH if he was closer to the fridge at the time and it's something I'd go
ahead and do if I was the closest person to the fridge (as in, I'm
making sandwiches and they're in another room entirely). Last night, DS
got out the pretzel sticks and the pumpkin butter and asked me to open
the pumpkin butter (it's actually quite tasty and the pumpkin butter was
one of our 'experiments' last fall - YUMMY). So, I did. Then, when he
was done, he brought the pretzel sticks and the pumpkin butter back to
the table and closed the pumpkin butter (the jar was a little stuck
getting it open but closed easily). I was reading a magazine article at
the table and said "Hey, would you put the pumpkin butter back in the
fridge? Thanks" (as he took it to the fridge).
What the root of things is is getting out of the habit/mindset of
demanding that they do "chores" in return for something (praise, money,
'privileges', etc) or "to teach them a lesson in responsibility" or
whatever. Asking for assistance when you need it is something *everyone*
in the family should feel free to do. Receiving appreciation is
something that should be reciprocal among all family members.
Deb
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Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 29, 2008, at 9:10 AM, Karen Swanay wrote:
I feel like you are looking to people on this list to tell you how to
parent. We talk about it, we offer our own experience, we offer our
analysis, our opinions - but we're not telling you what you are to do
or not to do. When the principles make sense to you, you'll follow
them because they make sense, not because someone told you how to do it,
We don't have chore lists. We don't tie allowances to working around
the house. We don't punish for not doing house or yard work. We often
live with bigger messes than we would if we made our kids do
housework, too. We focus on doing our housework with joy - we focus on
it being a choice that we make for good and sweet reasons, to make our
home a comfortable place where we love to be.
If what you understood was that you weren't to ask them to do
anything, then you're missing the bigger part of the picture. Live
joyfully. Treat children like real people whose feelings and wants and
needs and interests REALLY matter, but, at the same time, remember
that they are children who don't see the world through adult eyes and
don't have adult concerns. Live "together" - this means live in ways
that bring joy into family life. Forcing housework and yard work on
kids doesn't bring joy. Working together can bring great joy, though.
Rosie came in while I was cleaning the kitchen and we were talking.
After a few minutes I handed her a dish towel and asked, "Want to dry
while we talk?" We spent 20 minutes doing dishes together and it was
VERY sweet. She won't think of doing dishes as a terrible task to be
avoided, she is building joy-filled memories, instead. A few days
later, the dishes had piled up and we were super busy. I left to go do
some errands and said, "Hey, if you have time and you feel like it, it
would be great if you could make some headway on the kitchen mess."
Guess what? I came home and she'd cleaned the kitchen. I shouted from
the kitchen, "Hey - great, you did it!"
She was watching tv and she asked me, "Hey mom, can you get me a glass
of water when you get a chance?" I did it immediately - got a big
glass and even put ice in it. She thanked me.
So it was a big sweet thank-fest! <g>
MANY times I've mentioned something about the kitchen being a mess and
nobody else did it and it got worse and then I finally got time and
did it. That's okay, too. I really am happy to have the sweet times to
savor and probably my biggest regret is that I occasionally stressed
out, got mad, shamed and angered the kids when they were littler and I
was still demanding housework. Wish I could have a "do over" on that.
Still, time seems to have healed those old wounds and housework has
ceased to be any kind of issue.
Karen - it concerned me to hear you saying how much you love your son
and you're so glad he's your son, etc., because it felt that doing
housework was being treated like WAY too big a deal. Yes, it is nice
that your 9 yo did it, but was he doing it because he wanted it done
or to get your positive attention? Seems like his brother thinks he
was doing it to get on your good side - and was angered that you "fell
for it."
Instead of thanking him, another option would be to have said
something positive about how it feels to have done it.."Great! Now you
have room to play with your Legos." Or whatever is true in your
particular situation. Draw his attention away from doing it to get
praise from you and more to the benefits/reasons to do it for himself.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Your new "rule" is "Don't ask them to do anything?"
> OK now I'm confused. I thought I wasn't to ask them to do anything?
I feel like you are looking to people on this list to tell you how to
parent. We talk about it, we offer our own experience, we offer our
analysis, our opinions - but we're not telling you what you are to do
or not to do. When the principles make sense to you, you'll follow
them because they make sense, not because someone told you how to do it,
We don't have chore lists. We don't tie allowances to working around
the house. We don't punish for not doing house or yard work. We often
live with bigger messes than we would if we made our kids do
housework, too. We focus on doing our housework with joy - we focus on
it being a choice that we make for good and sweet reasons, to make our
home a comfortable place where we love to be.
If what you understood was that you weren't to ask them to do
anything, then you're missing the bigger part of the picture. Live
joyfully. Treat children like real people whose feelings and wants and
needs and interests REALLY matter, but, at the same time, remember
that they are children who don't see the world through adult eyes and
don't have adult concerns. Live "together" - this means live in ways
that bring joy into family life. Forcing housework and yard work on
kids doesn't bring joy. Working together can bring great joy, though.
Rosie came in while I was cleaning the kitchen and we were talking.
After a few minutes I handed her a dish towel and asked, "Want to dry
while we talk?" We spent 20 minutes doing dishes together and it was
VERY sweet. She won't think of doing dishes as a terrible task to be
avoided, she is building joy-filled memories, instead. A few days
later, the dishes had piled up and we were super busy. I left to go do
some errands and said, "Hey, if you have time and you feel like it, it
would be great if you could make some headway on the kitchen mess."
Guess what? I came home and she'd cleaned the kitchen. I shouted from
the kitchen, "Hey - great, you did it!"
She was watching tv and she asked me, "Hey mom, can you get me a glass
of water when you get a chance?" I did it immediately - got a big
glass and even put ice in it. She thanked me.
So it was a big sweet thank-fest! <g>
MANY times I've mentioned something about the kitchen being a mess and
nobody else did it and it got worse and then I finally got time and
did it. That's okay, too. I really am happy to have the sweet times to
savor and probably my biggest regret is that I occasionally stressed
out, got mad, shamed and angered the kids when they were littler and I
was still demanding housework. Wish I could have a "do over" on that.
Still, time seems to have healed those old wounds and housework has
ceased to be any kind of issue.
Karen - it concerned me to hear you saying how much you love your son
and you're so glad he's your son, etc., because it felt that doing
housework was being treated like WAY too big a deal. Yes, it is nice
that your 9 yo did it, but was he doing it because he wanted it done
or to get your positive attention? Seems like his brother thinks he
was doing it to get on your good side - and was angered that you "fell
for it."
Instead of thanking him, another option would be to have said
something positive about how it feels to have done it.."Great! Now you
have room to play with your Legos." Or whatever is true in your
particular situation. Draw his attention away from doing it to get
praise from you and more to the benefits/reasons to do it for himself.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
OK now I'm confused. I thought I wasn't to ask them to do anything?
-=-=-=-=-
It's kind of like we write that we don't have bedtimes or require
chores or limit food----and everyone thinks the kids run WILD and never
sleep and trash the house and never help and only eat sugar.
It's not that we don't *ask*. It's just that we're OK hearing "no."
Asking the kids to pick up or take out the trash here isn't an ORDER.
They have every right to say no. And do, occasionally. But not often
because they *want* to help. And they *more* often do things without
being asked at all.
Ask. Don't have any expectations. Be respectful of their time and
abilities. Don't nag. If they say they'll do something and don't, don't
get mad: realize that they're young and still figuring things out and
maybe forgot or got busy or got distracted.
If they've had chores or been expected to do for a long time, it's best
NOT to ask for a while, so that they can start to heal from your
earlier demands. But after they heal (and it sounds as if that's what
happened with *one* child), they'll start DOing because they WANT to.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
OK now I'm confused. I thought I wasn't to ask them to do anything?
-=-=-=-=-
It's kind of like we write that we don't have bedtimes or require
chores or limit food----and everyone thinks the kids run WILD and never
sleep and trash the house and never help and only eat sugar.
It's not that we don't *ask*. It's just that we're OK hearing "no."
Asking the kids to pick up or take out the trash here isn't an ORDER.
They have every right to say no. And do, occasionally. But not often
because they *want* to help. And they *more* often do things without
being asked at all.
Ask. Don't have any expectations. Be respectful of their time and
abilities. Don't nag. If they say they'll do something and don't, don't
get mad: realize that they're young and still figuring things out and
maybe forgot or got busy or got distracted.
If they've had chores or been expected to do for a long time, it's best
NOT to ask for a while, so that they can start to heal from your
earlier demands. But after they heal (and it sounds as if that's what
happened with *one* child), they'll start DOing because they WANT to.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
OK we haven't always done this way of parenting or living and I'm
trying to change that. To that end I haven't asked the boys to do
anything. Three times this week Liam (9) pitched in and washed some
dishes and cleaned their room without being asked to do so. When he
told me he was clearly looking for praise.
-=-=-=-=-
Maybe he was looking for appreciation.
-=-=-=-==-
I felt (and may have been
wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him was the
right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was a
big help to me." He was happy and it was exactly what I would have
said to my husband had he done it.
-=-=-=-
Cool.
-=-=-=-
Then my 11 yr old was upset
because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that and
I didn't."
-=-=-=-=-
That Liam got to clean? Or got thanked? <g>
-=-=-=-
ARGH what do I do there? At the time I said something like "Well, he
just did it. I didn't ask him to but he did it to help out and I
appreciate it when I get help." I was trying not to take anything
away from Liam while comforting John.
-=-=-=-=
I'm not getting why John needs comforting?
Why do you think he was upset?
-=-=-=-=-
I did tell John that I loved
him and was glad he was my son but I didn't know how to fix it.
-=-=-=-
What needs fixing?
-=-=-=-=-
The
option to pitch in and help is always there, there is plenty to do in
a day around the house. Liam doesn't always do things like that. So
it's not as if John wouldn't have the chance. He just doesn't want
to...but he doesn't want Liam getting praise I think. I really don't
know. I probably screwed this up. This is so hard when there is more
than one kid to tend to especially when their needs directly conflict
or preempt each others'.
-=-=-=-=-
Honestly, it sounds as if you did everything right.
There's something amiss with John and *something*. I think that's where
to look.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
OK we haven't always done this way of parenting or living and I'm
trying to change that. To that end I haven't asked the boys to do
anything. Three times this week Liam (9) pitched in and washed some
dishes and cleaned their room without being asked to do so. When he
told me he was clearly looking for praise.
-=-=-=-=-
Maybe he was looking for appreciation.
-=-=-=-==-
I felt (and may have been
wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him was the
right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was a
big help to me." He was happy and it was exactly what I would have
said to my husband had he done it.
-=-=-=-
Cool.
-=-=-=-
Then my 11 yr old was upset
because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that and
I didn't."
-=-=-=-=-
That Liam got to clean? Or got thanked? <g>
-=-=-=-
ARGH what do I do there? At the time I said something like "Well, he
just did it. I didn't ask him to but he did it to help out and I
appreciate it when I get help." I was trying not to take anything
away from Liam while comforting John.
-=-=-=-=
I'm not getting why John needs comforting?
Why do you think he was upset?
-=-=-=-=-
I did tell John that I loved
him and was glad he was my son but I didn't know how to fix it.
-=-=-=-
What needs fixing?
-=-=-=-=-
The
option to pitch in and help is always there, there is plenty to do in
a day around the house. Liam doesn't always do things like that. So
it's not as if John wouldn't have the chance. He just doesn't want
to...but he doesn't want Liam getting praise I think. I really don't
know. I probably screwed this up. This is so hard when there is more
than one kid to tend to especially when their needs directly conflict
or preempt each others'.
-=-=-=-=-
Honestly, it sounds as if you did everything right.
There's something amiss with John and *something*. I think that's where
to look.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
Karen Swanay
I'm not going to quote everyone because it's cumbersome but what you
all said is the basic stuff behind not asking. For too long doing
what they were TOLD was a commodity in this house so I've stopped
asking/demanding anything but not to touch each other in mean ways (ie
punching etc) because that's just too far for me. They fight less now
though because they are less stressed. But yes, as a transition from
the old way I've stopped asking them to do anything. TBH though I
thought the majority of you never asked your kids to do anything at
all. But with mine, the past has been "I'm bigger and control the
resources so do it or I'll be mad" and I'm trying to heal us all from
that.
Karen
all said is the basic stuff behind not asking. For too long doing
what they were TOLD was a commodity in this house so I've stopped
asking/demanding anything but not to touch each other in mean ways (ie
punching etc) because that's just too far for me. They fight less now
though because they are less stressed. But yes, as a transition from
the old way I've stopped asking them to do anything. TBH though I
thought the majority of you never asked your kids to do anything at
all. But with mine, the past has been "I'm bigger and control the
resources so do it or I'll be mad" and I'm trying to heal us all from
that.
Karen
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
"Hey thank you very much. That was a
big help to me."
-=-=-=-=-=-
That is not praised. It sounded like you appreciated his help. I say thank you to my kids anyway. The difference is in the intent.
I say thank you because I mean it not because I want to reinforce the positive ( in my opinion) behavior.
Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
OK we haven't always done this way of parenting or living and I'm
trying to change that. To that end I haven't asked the boys to do
anything. Three times this week Liam (9) pitched in and washed some
dishes and cleaned their room without being asked to do so. When he
told me he was clearly looking for praise. I felt (and may have been
wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him was the
right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was a
big help to me." He was happy and it was exactly what I would have
said to my husband had he done it. Then my 11 yr old was upset
because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that and
I didn't."
ARGH what do I do there? At the time I said something like "Well, he
just did it. I didn't ask him to but he did it to help out and I
appreciate it when I get help." I was trying not to take anything
away from Liam while comforting John. I did tell John that I loved
him and was glad he was my son but I didn't know how to fix it. The
option to pitch in and help is always there, there is plenty to do in
a day around the house. Liam doesn't always do things like that. So
it's not as if John wouldn't have the chance. He just doesn't want
to...but he doesn't want Liam getting praise I think. I really don't
know. I probably screwed this up. This is so hard when there is more
than one kid to tend to especially when their needs directly conflict
or preempt each others'.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
big help to me."
-=-=-=-=-=-
That is not praised. It sounded like you appreciated his help. I say thank you to my kids anyway. The difference is in the intent.
I say thank you because I mean it not because I want to reinforce the positive ( in my opinion) behavior.
Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
OK we haven't always done this way of parenting or living and I'm
trying to change that. To that end I haven't asked the boys to do
anything. Three times this week Liam (9) pitched in and washed some
dishes and cleaned their room without being asked to do so. When he
told me he was clearly looking for praise. I felt (and may have been
wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him was the
right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was a
big help to me." He was happy and it was exactly what I would have
said to my husband had he done it. Then my 11 yr old was upset
because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that and
I didn't."
ARGH what do I do there? At the time I said something like "Well, he
just did it. I didn't ask him to but he did it to help out and I
appreciate it when I get help." I was trying not to take anything
away from Liam while comforting John. I did tell John that I loved
him and was glad he was my son but I didn't know how to fix it. The
option to pitch in and help is always there, there is plenty to do in
a day around the house. Liam doesn't always do things like that. So
it's not as if John wouldn't have the chance. He just doesn't want
to...but he doesn't want Liam getting praise I think. I really don't
know. I probably screwed this up. This is so hard when there is more
than one kid to tend to especially when their needs directly conflict
or preempt each others'.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Also there is nothing wrong in asking for help with something. Just keep in mind that their answer can be NO. ( and you need to be OK with that)
Alex
Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
OK we haven't always done this way of parenting or living and I'm
trying to change that. To that end I haven't asked the boys to do
anything. Three times this week Liam (9) pitched in and washed some
dishes and cleaned their room without being asked to do so. When he
told me he was clearly looking for praise. I felt (and may have been
wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him was the
right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was a
big help to me." He was happy and it was exactly what I would have
said to my husband had he done it. Then my 11 yr old was upset
because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that and
I didn't."
ARGH what do I do there? At the time I said something like "Well, he
just did it. I didn't ask him to but he did it to help out and I
appreciate it when I get help." I was trying not to take anything
away from Liam while comforting John. I did tell John that I loved
him and was glad he was my son but I didn't know how to fix it. The
option to pitch in and help is always there, there is plenty to do in
a day around the house. Liam doesn't always do things like that. So
it's not as if John wouldn't have the chance. He just doesn't want
to...but he doesn't want Liam getting praise I think. I really don't
know. I probably screwed this up. This is so hard when there is more
than one kid to tend to especially when their needs directly conflict
or preempt each others'.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex
Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
OK we haven't always done this way of parenting or living and I'm
trying to change that. To that end I haven't asked the boys to do
anything. Three times this week Liam (9) pitched in and washed some
dishes and cleaned their room without being asked to do so. When he
told me he was clearly looking for praise. I felt (and may have been
wrong but in the moment I went with my gut) that praising him was the
right thing to do. So I said "Hey thank you very much. That was a
big help to me." He was happy and it was exactly what I would have
said to my husband had he done it. Then my 11 yr old was upset
because he said "I don't think it's fair that Liam got to do that and
I didn't."
ARGH what do I do there? At the time I said something like "Well, he
just did it. I didn't ask him to but he did it to help out and I
appreciate it when I get help." I was trying not to take anything
away from Liam while comforting John. I did tell John that I loved
him and was glad he was my son but I didn't know how to fix it. The
option to pitch in and help is always there, there is plenty to do in
a day around the house. Liam doesn't always do things like that. So
it's not as if John wouldn't have the chance. He just doesn't want
to...but he doesn't want Liam getting praise I think. I really don't
know. I probably screwed this up. This is so hard when there is more
than one kid to tend to especially when their needs directly conflict
or preempt each others'.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carenkh
--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
=-=But yes, as a transition from
anything, because we, too, were healing from my controlling ways with
cleaning. (Why is it I could let go of so much, but not that? It took
a while!) But now I'll ask - and honor whatever answer they give. More
often than not, Evan (15) will jump in and help. Seth (9) doesn't.
He's the kind of kid lots of people would say needs more limits,
because he's very... contrary. At first, I wondered, too, because some
people say sometimes boys respond best to firm limits, especially the
ones that like to push. That's why I hang out here! Because that
doesn't seem right in my heart. I think he's strong-willed and
contrary for a reason.
peace,
Caren
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
=-=But yes, as a transition from
> the old way I've stopped asking them to do anything. TBH though II went through quite a long time where I didn't ask the boys to do
> thought the majority of you never asked your kids to do anything at
> all.=-=
anything, because we, too, were healing from my controlling ways with
cleaning. (Why is it I could let go of so much, but not that? It took
a while!) But now I'll ask - and honor whatever answer they give. More
often than not, Evan (15) will jump in and help. Seth (9) doesn't.
He's the kind of kid lots of people would say needs more limits,
because he's very... contrary. At first, I wondered, too, because some
people say sometimes boys respond best to firm limits, especially the
ones that like to push. That's why I hang out here! Because that
doesn't seem right in my heart. I think he's strong-willed and
contrary for a reason.
peace,
Caren
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
But yes, as a transition from
the old way I've stopped asking them to do anything.
-=-==-=
And that's probably what they needed. But it's NOT a forever thing...as
you have discovered. They just need to heal from the previous damage.
-=-=-=-=-
TBH though I thought the majority of you never asked your kids to do
anything at all.
-=-=-=-
Really? And you read the archives?
We don't demand. We don't require. But we do ask. And it is perfectly
acceptable for the kids to say no---just like any other human---adult
OR child.
But as this as a way of life, they hardly ever do. Because they know
it's the kind thing to do.
-=-=-=-=-
But with mine, the past has been "I'm bigger and control the
resources so do it or I'll be mad" and I'm trying to heal us all from
that.
-=-=-=-=-
And it's working?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
But yes, as a transition from
the old way I've stopped asking them to do anything.
-=-==-=
And that's probably what they needed. But it's NOT a forever thing...as
you have discovered. They just need to heal from the previous damage.
-=-=-=-=-
TBH though I thought the majority of you never asked your kids to do
anything at all.
-=-=-=-
Really? And you read the archives?
We don't demand. We don't require. But we do ask. And it is perfectly
acceptable for the kids to say no---just like any other human---adult
OR child.
But as this as a way of life, they hardly ever do. Because they know
it's the kind thing to do.
-=-=-=-=-
But with mine, the past has been "I'm bigger and control the
resources so do it or I'll be mad" and I'm trying to heal us all from
that.
-=-=-=-=-
And it's working?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: carenkh <carenkh@...>
That's why I hang out here! Because that
doesn't seem right in my heart. I think he's strong-willed and
contrary for a reason.
-=-=-=-
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." ~Illusions
Maybe you felt you had something to learn. <BWG>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: carenkh <carenkh@...>
That's why I hang out here! Because that
doesn't seem right in my heart. I think he's strong-willed and
contrary for a reason.
-=-=-=-
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its
hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." ~Illusions
Maybe you felt you had something to learn. <BWG>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
carenkh
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
antiauthoritarianism helped me see my own. I was always so...
obedient! On the outside. hee hee But would *self* sabotage as a kind
of twisted way of "getting back" at da man. Now I can express my own
rebelliousness.
Gifts all around, with this life.
Caren
> Maybe you felt you had something to learn. <BWG>Well, I have said that embracing *his* contrariness and
antiauthoritarianism helped me see my own. I was always so...
obedient! On the outside. hee hee But would *self* sabotage as a kind
of twisted way of "getting back" at da man. Now I can express my own
rebelliousness.
Gifts all around, with this life.
Caren
Ren Allen
~~OK now I'm confused. I thought I wasn't to ask them to do anything?~~
So if we say don't ask your kids to do anything, you'll do what we say?;)
Too much right/wrong here. There aren't unschooling "rules" or "right
and wrong" to follow. Just ideas about how to parent more connected
and peacefully.
I see your logic in not asking for a while, to initiate healing. Nice!
But treating them as useful human beings is ok too.:) As long as there
isn't an agenda behind a request, it's just a request right?
We had a lot of it going on today, in preparation for Sierra's
birthday. "Here, you grab the cake and I'll get the soda" or "Would
you get the scissors from downstairs and bring the cat down with
you?" Lotsa stuff like that.
We were all working together with a common goal in mind...getting
ready for friends to come celebrate! It was fun. There WAS expectation
that the person being requested would help out, because they had
indicated their willingness! The expectation was there because of what
was happening right in front of us, because of willingness to share
the experience. No expectation existed outside of the activity
everyone was willingly participating in.
"I can't get that right now" is an acceptable answer. I still have
chips on the stairs that Jalen didn't want to clean up after he
spilled them. It takes less energy to go clean them up than to nag
him. It's a natural give and take.
I make requests of others every day. I fulfill requests for others
everyday. It's just how we live. Knowing you have a choice, children
knowing they truly have a choice makes all the difference in how it
flows.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
So if we say don't ask your kids to do anything, you'll do what we say?;)
Too much right/wrong here. There aren't unschooling "rules" or "right
and wrong" to follow. Just ideas about how to parent more connected
and peacefully.
I see your logic in not asking for a while, to initiate healing. Nice!
But treating them as useful human beings is ok too.:) As long as there
isn't an agenda behind a request, it's just a request right?
We had a lot of it going on today, in preparation for Sierra's
birthday. "Here, you grab the cake and I'll get the soda" or "Would
you get the scissors from downstairs and bring the cat down with
you?" Lotsa stuff like that.
We were all working together with a common goal in mind...getting
ready for friends to come celebrate! It was fun. There WAS expectation
that the person being requested would help out, because they had
indicated their willingness! The expectation was there because of what
was happening right in front of us, because of willingness to share
the experience. No expectation existed outside of the activity
everyone was willingly participating in.
"I can't get that right now" is an acceptable answer. I still have
chips on the stairs that Jalen didn't want to clean up after he
spilled them. It takes less energy to go clean them up than to nag
him. It's a natural give and take.
I make requests of others every day. I fulfill requests for others
everyday. It's just how we live. Knowing you have a choice, children
knowing they truly have a choice makes all the difference in how it
flows.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
keetry
--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
still expected him to do them. I tried to be "lenient" about it by not
telling him he had to stop what he was doing or expecting it to be
done a certain way. I still expected it to be done, though. He didn't
really have the choice of saying no. Honestly, I don't know what I
would've done if he had said no. I probably would've ranted and raved
and whined and complained about having to do everything myself. He
never did say no. He just wouldn't do whatever it was. Once I realized
and accepted that I couldn't actually make him do anything, I stopped
expecting him to do things. I still asked, though, and after a while
he would do a lot of the things I asked and even many things I didn't.
My 4yo says no to me a lot when I ask him to do something. I don't try
to force him. I try my best to do it myself, happily. I'm still
working on the happily part.
Alysia
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>I used to ask my oldest ds to do things rather than ordering him but I
> TBH though I
> thought the majority of you never asked your kids to do anything at
> all. But with mine, the past has been "I'm bigger and control the
> resources so do it or I'll be mad" and I'm trying to heal us all from
> that.
>
> Karen
>
still expected him to do them. I tried to be "lenient" about it by not
telling him he had to stop what he was doing or expecting it to be
done a certain way. I still expected it to be done, though. He didn't
really have the choice of saying no. Honestly, I don't know what I
would've done if he had said no. I probably would've ranted and raved
and whined and complained about having to do everything myself. He
never did say no. He just wouldn't do whatever it was. Once I realized
and accepted that I couldn't actually make him do anything, I stopped
expecting him to do things. I still asked, though, and after a while
he would do a lot of the things I asked and even many things I didn't.
My 4yo says no to me a lot when I ask him to do something. I don't try
to force him. I try my best to do it myself, happily. I'm still
working on the happily part.
Alysia