Intro and question
mamaaj2000
Hi everyone...and a special hello to Christy--good to know there's at
least one other Air Force family unschooling! We're at Andrews AFB in
Maryland just outside of D.C. Tons of homeschooling families (local
schools are rotten), but definitely not unschooling!
I want to throw out a couple questions while I have a chance. I've
got two kids with colds and dh is leaving for week tomorrow, so if I
don't respond quickly, pls. forgive!
A number of people posted about the healthy snacks their kids choose
throughout the day. What about sit down meals? It's vital to me to
eat breakfast and it sure helps my ds' (3.5) mood if he eats fairly
soon after waking up. Small meals and snacks throughout the day are
fine with me, but I sure like the idea of a sit down dinner for the
family. So I'm curious what unschooling families do--skip big sit
down big meals, have them completely optional, etc.
For the people here who have changed from controling to not, I'd love
to hear about your pace! I'm trying to figure out whether I want to
take small steps I'm comfortable with, or push myself. With dh out of
town for a week, I really could loosen up even more about food
quickly, but it's scary!
Regarding changing spouse's minds about controling and unschooling,
I've found that the direct method doesn't work with my dh. If I tell
him what I'm planning to do, or doing, or ask him to read something,
he resists (I'm talking about philosophies here, not going to the
park). He does, however, notice what works. It takes much longer than
I would like, but he's been moving in the right direction. Also, when
I have "solid evidence" that something is working, I make a big deal
of it--in a very joyful "isn't it great" way, not "I told you so."
Easiest example is that Mikey has a tendency to give up quickly if
trying something new, especially if it's physical. I rarely pushed
him to take his own clothes off or put them on, but it was hard to
stay quiet when we really thought he could do it and he'd make a big
deal about how hard it was. Now, at 3.5, when we come home from
somewhere he takes his shoes off, puts them away in the hall closet
and closes the door. I told dh that if Mikey does that at 3.5 without
us pushing or teaching or anything other than doing it for him, I
can't bring myself to worry when he claims he "can't" do something.
That was a turning point for my dh.
I reserve the right to vent when he doesn't "get it" on any given day!
Oh, I never actually introduced myself. I'm AJ, tired mom (didn't
realize how late it had gotten...my dd woke up twice while I've been
writing) to Mikey who's 3.5 and talks like he's about...85, I think
and Caroline (aka Coo-Coo), almost 18 months. She's a very determined
girl who can do anything she sets her mind to and who frightens me on
an hourly basis. Right now she's really into dogs so I've been
turning on dog shows on TV a lot, playing with a neighbor's dogs and
trying to figure out what else to do! Suggestions welcome.
Mikey is a huuuuge Thomas fan. He doesn't know it yet, but we'll be
riding on the big Thomas in Strasburg, PA in a couple weeks.
I gotta get some sleep! Happy to be here with you all!
--aj
least one other Air Force family unschooling! We're at Andrews AFB in
Maryland just outside of D.C. Tons of homeschooling families (local
schools are rotten), but definitely not unschooling!
I want to throw out a couple questions while I have a chance. I've
got two kids with colds and dh is leaving for week tomorrow, so if I
don't respond quickly, pls. forgive!
A number of people posted about the healthy snacks their kids choose
throughout the day. What about sit down meals? It's vital to me to
eat breakfast and it sure helps my ds' (3.5) mood if he eats fairly
soon after waking up. Small meals and snacks throughout the day are
fine with me, but I sure like the idea of a sit down dinner for the
family. So I'm curious what unschooling families do--skip big sit
down big meals, have them completely optional, etc.
For the people here who have changed from controling to not, I'd love
to hear about your pace! I'm trying to figure out whether I want to
take small steps I'm comfortable with, or push myself. With dh out of
town for a week, I really could loosen up even more about food
quickly, but it's scary!
Regarding changing spouse's minds about controling and unschooling,
I've found that the direct method doesn't work with my dh. If I tell
him what I'm planning to do, or doing, or ask him to read something,
he resists (I'm talking about philosophies here, not going to the
park). He does, however, notice what works. It takes much longer than
I would like, but he's been moving in the right direction. Also, when
I have "solid evidence" that something is working, I make a big deal
of it--in a very joyful "isn't it great" way, not "I told you so."
Easiest example is that Mikey has a tendency to give up quickly if
trying something new, especially if it's physical. I rarely pushed
him to take his own clothes off or put them on, but it was hard to
stay quiet when we really thought he could do it and he'd make a big
deal about how hard it was. Now, at 3.5, when we come home from
somewhere he takes his shoes off, puts them away in the hall closet
and closes the door. I told dh that if Mikey does that at 3.5 without
us pushing or teaching or anything other than doing it for him, I
can't bring myself to worry when he claims he "can't" do something.
That was a turning point for my dh.
I reserve the right to vent when he doesn't "get it" on any given day!
Oh, I never actually introduced myself. I'm AJ, tired mom (didn't
realize how late it had gotten...my dd woke up twice while I've been
writing) to Mikey who's 3.5 and talks like he's about...85, I think
and Caroline (aka Coo-Coo), almost 18 months. She's a very determined
girl who can do anything she sets her mind to and who frightens me on
an hourly basis. Right now she's really into dogs so I've been
turning on dog shows on TV a lot, playing with a neighbor's dogs and
trying to figure out what else to do! Suggestions welcome.
Mikey is a huuuuge Thomas fan. He doesn't know it yet, but we'll be
riding on the big Thomas in Strasburg, PA in a couple weeks.
I gotta get some sleep! Happy to be here with you all!
--aj
Fetteroll
on 6/5/04 11:39 PM, mamaaj2000 at mamaaj2000@... wrote:
If your goal is the family present at the dinner table then the way you go
about it will be different than if your goal is the family happy at the
dinner table.
If having them present is the goal, then some acceptable tools to achieve
that are to make presence a requirement and to make sure they're very hungry
when dinner is ready.
If having them happy is the goal, then those techniques won't work as well.
If presence is a requirement then one option available to them is merely
fulfilling the requirement by occupying a seat at the table until excused
while they think of all the things they'd rather be doing. If hunger is a
requirement then the atmosphere of dinner is about eating and not about
being together.
Being at the table needs to be a choice for people to be happy being there.
And if you want them to choose coming to the table over some other activity,
dinner time needs to be a time that people look forward to gathering
together. You can feed them when they're hungry and ask if they'd like to
draw or play GameBoy or something else while they visit with the rest of the
family at dinner time. Or dinner can be like show and tell where everyone
informs dad of what went on that day. Or you can tell them having the family
together is something that you really appreciate. (As a way of sharing your
feelings rather than a way of guilting them into doing something you want
them to do.) Or something that everyone looks forward to doing together.
It's not that no one can create a Norman Rockwell dinner with hunger and
requirements to be there but that those aren't the cause of the atmosphere.
The atmosphere isn't created by force. The atmosphere is created because of
some other dynamic that makes people enjoy being together.
Joyce
> Small meals and snacks throughout the day areIt depends what your goals are.
> fine with me, but I sure like the idea of a sit down dinner for the
> family. So I'm curious what unschooling families do--skip big sit
> down big meals, have them completely optional, etc.
If your goal is the family present at the dinner table then the way you go
about it will be different than if your goal is the family happy at the
dinner table.
If having them present is the goal, then some acceptable tools to achieve
that are to make presence a requirement and to make sure they're very hungry
when dinner is ready.
If having them happy is the goal, then those techniques won't work as well.
If presence is a requirement then one option available to them is merely
fulfilling the requirement by occupying a seat at the table until excused
while they think of all the things they'd rather be doing. If hunger is a
requirement then the atmosphere of dinner is about eating and not about
being together.
Being at the table needs to be a choice for people to be happy being there.
And if you want them to choose coming to the table over some other activity,
dinner time needs to be a time that people look forward to gathering
together. You can feed them when they're hungry and ask if they'd like to
draw or play GameBoy or something else while they visit with the rest of the
family at dinner time. Or dinner can be like show and tell where everyone
informs dad of what went on that day. Or you can tell them having the family
together is something that you really appreciate. (As a way of sharing your
feelings rather than a way of guilting them into doing something you want
them to do.) Or something that everyone looks forward to doing together.
It's not that no one can create a Norman Rockwell dinner with hunger and
requirements to be there but that those aren't the cause of the atmosphere.
The atmosphere isn't created by force. The atmosphere is created because of
some other dynamic that makes people enjoy being together.
Joyce
TreeGoddess
On Jun 5, 2004, at 11:39 PM, mamaaj2000 wrote:
time and 'have dinner'. Many times the kids don't want what I've made
for DH and myself so they eat something else. Sometimes they DO like
what I've made, but they're not ready to leave their toy or project
and/or they're waiting to come eat until their movie or tv show is
over. Stuff like that. That's not to say that we never sit down all
at once. It does happen too. I guess it's not that big of a deal to
us any more.....our kids aren't gone all day at school and they're too
young (5 and 3) to be gone at friends' houses much so having a sit down
family dinner isn't the only time we have to connect with each other.
Hope that makes sense. LOL
Greenfield Village ( http://www.thehenryford.org ) and the kids had
fun. My DD didn't like how big Thomas's face is though and she didn't
want to go near the front of the train. lol There were tents with
Thomas activities (coloring, "tattoos" of Thomas, Percy and James,
etc.) and Thomas merchandise (most of which you can find at Toys R Us
for the same or less money). The kids had fun though....hope yours do
too! :)
-Tracy-
> So I'm curious what unschooling families do--skip big sitMost often we don't all (4 of us) sit down at the table at the same
> down big meals, have them completely optional, etc.
time and 'have dinner'. Many times the kids don't want what I've made
for DH and myself so they eat something else. Sometimes they DO like
what I've made, but they're not ready to leave their toy or project
and/or they're waiting to come eat until their movie or tv show is
over. Stuff like that. That's not to say that we never sit down all
at once. It does happen too. I guess it's not that big of a deal to
us any more.....our kids aren't gone all day at school and they're too
young (5 and 3) to be gone at friends' houses much so having a sit down
family dinner isn't the only time we have to connect with each other.
Hope that makes sense. LOL
> Mikey is a huuuuge Thomas fan. He doesn't know it yet, but we'll beOoh, we did this in late April when it was here in SE lower MI at
> riding on the big Thomas in Strasburg, PA in a couple weeks.
Greenfield Village ( http://www.thehenryford.org ) and the kids had
fun. My DD didn't like how big Thomas's face is though and she didn't
want to go near the front of the train. lol There were tents with
Thomas activities (coloring, "tattoos" of Thomas, Percy and James,
etc.) and Thomas merchandise (most of which you can find at Toys R Us
for the same or less money). The kids had fun though....hope yours do
too! :)
-Tracy-
mom2ckm
--- In [email protected], "mamaaj2000"
we're hungry, but I ask everyone not to eat after 3:00pm so they'll
have room for dinner, which we eat as a family at 5:30-6:00pm. My
8yo is the only one who has "problems" with eating certain foods.
But he is willing to try a few bites of everything.
feel like we need time to adjust to the new method of doing things,
and second because our 5yo still needs to be watched over for safety
reasons (he tends to climb on furniture to get to the high cabinets,
etc) We've told him that we'll teach him how to do things for
himself, but he still needs adult supervision/help until we are
confident that he's not going to hurt himself.
~Sarah
>What about sit down meals?The kids and I eat small meals/snacks throughout the day whenever
we're hungry, but I ask everyone not to eat after 3:00pm so they'll
have room for dinner, which we eat as a family at 5:30-6:00pm. My
8yo is the only one who has "problems" with eating certain foods.
But he is willing to try a few bites of everything.
> For the people here who have changed from controling to not, I'dlove
> to hear about your pace! I'm trying to figure out whether I wantto
> take small steps I'm comfortable with, or push myself.We're taking small steps for a couple of reasons: first dh and I
feel like we need time to adjust to the new method of doing things,
and second because our 5yo still needs to be watched over for safety
reasons (he tends to climb on furniture to get to the high cabinets,
etc) We've told him that we'll teach him how to do things for
himself, but he still needs adult supervision/help until we are
confident that he's not going to hurt himself.
~Sarah
unschooling1
Hi AJ, and thank you for the special hello too. I have yet to meet
any unschooling Air Force families - perhaps someday!
My dh is gone for a week too, so my girls and I had little pizzas
and smoothies for dinner. Really though, sit down dinners are not
important to him. He just likes to know what to expect. He usually
calls me in the afternoon and asks what's going on for dinner.
Probably the majority of days I do cook something, but at least a
couple days a week I just don't feel like it or we have a lot of
leftovers filling up the fridge or whatever.
In our house, we have the dining table in the same room as the TV,
so many times we will watch The Simpsons or something that everyone
likes while we eat.
-Christy
any unschooling Air Force families - perhaps someday!
My dh is gone for a week too, so my girls and I had little pizzas
and smoothies for dinner. Really though, sit down dinners are not
important to him. He just likes to know what to expect. He usually
calls me in the afternoon and asks what's going on for dinner.
Probably the majority of days I do cook something, but at least a
couple days a week I just don't feel like it or we have a lot of
leftovers filling up the fridge or whatever.
In our house, we have the dining table in the same room as the TV,
so many times we will watch The Simpsons or something that everyone
likes while we eat.
-Christy
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/6/2004 5:36:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
unschooling1@... writes:
Hi AJ, and thank you for the special hello too. I have yet to meet
any unschooling Air Force families - perhaps someday!
<<<<<<
Well, we're ex-Air Force~ <g>
Ben's retired and now with the Air National Guard here in SC. We were
stationed at Beale AFB in Marysville, CA; Lindsey Air Station in Wiesbaden,
Germany; and Scott AFB in Belleville, IL. He's been out ten years now.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling1@... writes:
Hi AJ, and thank you for the special hello too. I have yet to meet
any unschooling Air Force families - perhaps someday!
<<<<<<
Well, we're ex-Air Force~ <g>
Ben's retired and now with the Air National Guard here in SC. We were
stationed at Beale AFB in Marysville, CA; Lindsey Air Station in Wiesbaden,
Germany; and Scott AFB in Belleville, IL. He's been out ten years now.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Helen Hegener
At 9:12 PM -0400 6/6/04, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
rebound in Kelly's reply. A good friend, Valerie Moon, built this
site for military homeschoolers last fall (she's an unschooler FYI):
http://www.militaryhomeschoolers.com/
It's an awesome site - fascinating even for non-military homeschoolers!
Helen
> In a message dated 6/6/2004 5:36:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,I missed this when it was originally posted, but caught it on the
>unschooling1@... writes:
>
>Hi AJ, and thank you for the special hello too. I have yet to meet
>any unschooling Air Force families - perhaps someday!
rebound in Kelly's reply. A good friend, Valerie Moon, built this
site for military homeschoolers last fall (she's an unschooler FYI):
http://www.militaryhomeschoolers.com/
It's an awesome site - fascinating even for non-military homeschoolers!
Helen
[email protected]
Hi! I am so thrilled to have found this list (Thanks, Mike!!!). I've recently gotten out of my own way enough to see the real value in working for consensus with my kids, and have been wanting to learn more from families who have more experience. My husband, Carson, and I are parents to Isaiah (5 next month) and Simon (19mo). I've known since before I had kids that I wanted to unschool with them, and Carson has come to home/unschooling gradually over the years. Lately the comments I keep getting from strangers are of the "Homeschooling - that must be so much work!" variety, and I am never quite sure how to answer that. The more I let go of control, the less work there seems to be!
I am wondering how others deal with a 5yo child who is often physically aggressive and will not stop when told that the other people do not like it, are being hurt, are at risk of being hurt, etc. Frequently I find myself forcing him to stop (holding him, removing him from the situation, etc.), which I think doesn't really help the long term situation. I think that two main things are at work here - he is very physical and probably doesn't get enough puppy-type play, and his personality combined with the years of previous coercion have him still living with a "I have to do it my way and only my way" attitude which keeps him from hearing what we're saying when we let him know he's hurting us. I have been trying to help him find more friends who enjoy wrestling-type play in the hopes that having that outlet will help him be more physically gentle at other times. I would love any other suggestions. Anyone been through this and have a perspective to share?
Looking forward to learning with you all,
Rachel
www.DiaperFreeBaby.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am wondering how others deal with a 5yo child who is often physically aggressive and will not stop when told that the other people do not like it, are being hurt, are at risk of being hurt, etc. Frequently I find myself forcing him to stop (holding him, removing him from the situation, etc.), which I think doesn't really help the long term situation. I think that two main things are at work here - he is very physical and probably doesn't get enough puppy-type play, and his personality combined with the years of previous coercion have him still living with a "I have to do it my way and only my way" attitude which keeps him from hearing what we're saying when we let him know he's hurting us. I have been trying to help him find more friends who enjoy wrestling-type play in the hopes that having that outlet will help him be more physically gentle at other times. I would love any other suggestions. Anyone been through this and have a perspective to share?
Looking forward to learning with you all,
Rachel
www.DiaperFreeBaby.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wendy E
Hi Rachel...I'm Wendy, mommy to Lucas (5) and Ethan (2)and we live in
Souther CA. What is it with 5 yo boys???? If you go back a bit in
the archives (you can read them of the web page)...we've had a little
bit of a discussion on limits and 5yo boys in general (look for posts
on "limits"...my post... and "what to do with 5yo"...Sarah's post, I
think). I too struggle with my 5yo not being quite aware of his
actions. I do understand that he is only 5 and he is still learning
these things. He is very spirited and tends to be on the impulsive
side...but yes, my family and I get a little frustrated with getting
bopped and banged pretty frequently! It has gotten better...but it's
a process.
--- In [email protected], "Rachel@D..."
<rachelcarson@r...> wrote:> I am wondering how others deal with a 5yo
child who is often physically aggressive and will not stop when told
that the other people do not like it, are being hurt, are at risk of
being hurt, etc.
Souther CA. What is it with 5 yo boys???? If you go back a bit in
the archives (you can read them of the web page)...we've had a little
bit of a discussion on limits and 5yo boys in general (look for posts
on "limits"...my post... and "what to do with 5yo"...Sarah's post, I
think). I too struggle with my 5yo not being quite aware of his
actions. I do understand that he is only 5 and he is still learning
these things. He is very spirited and tends to be on the impulsive
side...but yes, my family and I get a little frustrated with getting
bopped and banged pretty frequently! It has gotten better...but it's
a process.
--- In [email protected], "Rachel@D..."
<rachelcarson@r...> wrote:> I am wondering how others deal with a 5yo
child who is often physically aggressive and will not stop when told
that the other people do not like it, are being hurt, are at risk of
being hurt, etc.
pam sorooshian
On Jun 13, 2004, at 5:43 AM, Rachel@... wrote:
I have watched LOTS of little boys like this - and have over and over
again seen martial arts save the day. It gives them an outlet for that
aggression that they naturally have - some more than others - and yet
teaches self-control at the same time.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> he is very physical and probably doesn't get enough puppy-type play,Maybe with my outside perspective, since I have only girls, I can help.
> and his personality combined with the years of previous coercion have
> him still living with a "I have to do it my way and only my way"
> attitude which keeps him from hearing what we're saying when we let
> him know he's hurting us. I have been trying to help him find more
> friends who enjoy wrestling-type play in the hopes that having that
> outlet will help him be more physically gentle at other times. I
> would love any other suggestions. Anyone been through this and have a
> perspective to share?
I have watched LOTS of little boys like this - and have over and over
again seen martial arts save the day. It gives them an outlet for that
aggression that they naturally have - some more than others - and yet
teaches self-control at the same time.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Wendy E
I have heard this too...I just wonder at what age this might be a
good thing??? Lucas is only 5yo and he is very resistant to group
instruction and being told what to do. Also, while I can understand
the value of this I can't quite see my child being able to follow the
lead of an instructor. I guess it all depends on the instructor, but
I wouldn't want anyone being demeaning to my child or forcing him to
do anything he doesn't want to do, KWIM? How do martial arts, with
their strict rules, fit into unschooling? Thanks for bringing this
up Pam because I have wondered about this...thinking maybe it will be
beneficial in the future. Maybe you know of a really good instructor
in the area (we live near you...)
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:> Maybe with my outside perspective, since I
have only girls, I can help.
good thing??? Lucas is only 5yo and he is very resistant to group
instruction and being told what to do. Also, while I can understand
the value of this I can't quite see my child being able to follow the
lead of an instructor. I guess it all depends on the instructor, but
I wouldn't want anyone being demeaning to my child or forcing him to
do anything he doesn't want to do, KWIM? How do martial arts, with
their strict rules, fit into unschooling? Thanks for bringing this
up Pam because I have wondered about this...thinking maybe it will be
beneficial in the future. Maybe you know of a really good instructor
in the area (we live near you...)
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:> Maybe with my outside perspective, since I
have only girls, I can help.
> I have watched LOTS of little boys like this - and have over andover
> again seen martial arts save the day. It gives them an outlet forthat
> aggression that they naturally have - some more than others - andyet
> teaches self-control at the same time.
>
> -pam
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
pam sorooshian
On Jun 13, 2004, at 2:51 PM, Wendy E wrote:
They are wonderful - sweet and kind unschoolers themselves. Parents and
kids can do classes together - littles can come and go - it is really
great. The kids all seem to have a great time!
I've send the info to Wendy - Anybody else who happens to live in
Orange County California or nearby Los Angeles County, California -
just email me offlist and I'll send you the information, if you're
interested.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> How do martial arts, withI do - an unschooling family that owns and operates a karate studio.
> their strict rules, fit into unschooling? Thanks for bringing this
> up Pam because I have wondered about this...thinking maybe it will be
> beneficial in the future. Maybe you know of a really good instructor
> in the area (we live near you...)
They are wonderful - sweet and kind unschoolers themselves. Parents and
kids can do classes together - littles can come and go - it is really
great. The kids all seem to have a great time!
I've send the info to Wendy - Anybody else who happens to live in
Orange County California or nearby Los Angeles County, California -
just email me offlist and I'll send you the information, if you're
interested.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Wendy E
Thanks so much Pam...I got your email right after I sent mine!
Sounds really great. We will check it out.
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
Sounds really great. We will check it out.
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
>this
> On Jun 13, 2004, at 2:51 PM, Wendy E wrote:
>
> > How do martial arts, with
> > their strict rules, fit into unschooling? Thanks for bringing
> > up Pam because I have wondered about this...thinking maybe itwill be
> > beneficial in the future. Maybe you know of a really goodinstructor
> > in the area (we live near you...)studio.
>
> I do - an unschooling family that owns and operates a karate
> They are wonderful - sweet and kind unschoolers themselves. Parentsand
> kids can do classes together - littles can come and go - it isreally
> great. The kids all seem to have a great time!
>
> I've send the info to Wendy - Anybody else who happens to live in
> Orange County California or nearby Los Angeles County, California -
> just email me offlist and I'll send you the information, if you're
> interested.
>
> -pam
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], "Rachel@D..."
<rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
I think that two main things are at work here - he is very physical
and probably doesn't get enough puppy-type play, and his personality
combined with the years of previous coercion have him still living
with a "I have to do it my way and only my way" attitude which keeps
him from hearing what we're saying when we let him know he's hurting
us. I have been trying to help him find more friends who enjoy
wrestling-type play in the hopes that having that outlet will help
him be more physically gentle at other times. I would love any other
suggestions. Anyone been through this and have a perspective to
share?
Hi Rachel!
My kids, esp. the 3.5 y o boy, need physical play to maintain sanity
(theirs and mine). For us, it doesn't have to be wrestling, tho' we
do plenty of that, but running, walking, jumping (a trampoline or
mini-tramp. would be great), etc. This winter, while sick, I
developed several games that involved me sitting on the couch not
moving: Hallway Opposites, where Mikey would run down the hall and
back first slow, then fast, standing up tall, then down low, loud
then soft...hide and seek where he runs and hides and I send my 1.5 y
o to find him! Oh, we made obstacle courses with toys and balance
beams with books on the floor. Dragged all the pillows in the house
to the living room and built forts, had pillow fights, hid.
I could go on, but the point is that I find something even if we
don't leave the living room!
--aj
<rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
I think that two main things are at work here - he is very physical
and probably doesn't get enough puppy-type play, and his personality
combined with the years of previous coercion have him still living
with a "I have to do it my way and only my way" attitude which keeps
him from hearing what we're saying when we let him know he's hurting
us. I have been trying to help him find more friends who enjoy
wrestling-type play in the hopes that having that outlet will help
him be more physically gentle at other times. I would love any other
suggestions. Anyone been through this and have a perspective to
share?
Hi Rachel!
My kids, esp. the 3.5 y o boy, need physical play to maintain sanity
(theirs and mine). For us, it doesn't have to be wrestling, tho' we
do plenty of that, but running, walking, jumping (a trampoline or
mini-tramp. would be great), etc. This winter, while sick, I
developed several games that involved me sitting on the couch not
moving: Hallway Opposites, where Mikey would run down the hall and
back first slow, then fast, standing up tall, then down low, loud
then soft...hide and seek where he runs and hides and I send my 1.5 y
o to find him! Oh, we made obstacle courses with toys and balance
beams with books on the floor. Dragged all the pillows in the house
to the living room and built forts, had pillow fights, hid.
I could go on, but the point is that I find something even if we
don't leave the living room!
--aj
[email protected]
My daughter is also 9 1/2. She's a good reader. How did she learn to read? Not like her brother, of course -- that would have been too easy. :)
First, she lives in a house with lots of books. And magazines. Etc. Bought and ordered specifically for her. She has chosen mostly nature/animal themed mags so far.
And she got a library card. Long before she could actually read. I wonder if the way we go to the library is how other people do it. We walk in and I go to my section (murder mysteries :) ) and DD browses in the kids' section until she finds what she wants. Yesterday it was a DVD. Last time it was a book and a DVD. The time before just a book. She is reading the Animal Ark series and enjoying it a lot.
My job at the library is to have the library card ready when she is ready to check out. To notice what she selected and admire it and then get in the car and drive us home.
Now, at one point (she was 6) she specifically said "everyone but me knows how to read" and demanded to be taught using some sort of organized plan. Together we chose the 100 Easy Lessons book and she did about the middle third of it and that solidified her reading enough that she then went to picking out her own books, etc.
She learned to spell south yesterday. We just switched to bellsouth. :) Spelling things correctly is helpful when you are trying to do anything -- like Google a question or find a book in the library or solve a puzzle -- last week one of her mags had a puzzle that involved alphabetizing some animals to solve it -- the punchline was so corny it was a real groaner -- but she amazed me that she even knew HOW to alphabetize a long list of things :). But, really, when you thnk about it, the idea is pretty obvious -- she just hadn't had it put in front of her as a "worksheet" -- it was something she wanted to play with.
Anyway, my long ramble is just to say -- it's OK. Relax. Maybe my DS won't win any spelling bees. But she reads a lot. Maybe she's not reading what all the other 9 year old girls are reading in our county. But that's OK. It's not a race. It's not a competition.
I could have worried a lot about her not reading early -- that was the example I had in her brother. But I had started to try to relax about all this stuff by then and she got it when she was ready. And continues to grab a book as a way to relax.
We may have to dash down to babysit her 2-year-old cousin when my SIL has the new baby. So what did we make sure we had packed in our "maybe we'll have to stay overnight" bag -- a book for each of us of course! That's what you do when you have free time -- you read something for fun.
It's more a lifestyle thing than a "what grade level are you on, are you keeping up" thing.
Now, take her brother -- the early reader. You won't catch him with a book, no sir! Not fiction anyway. He just doesn't get into it. Now, give him a good logic puzzle book and he'll be happy. Should I get upset that he isn't immersed in whatever 11 yo boy popular fiction is these days?
I don't think so. Not when you see them. I shouldn't be upset that they aren't "on grade level" in any way. Yesterday included an outing to help DS's Tae Kwon Do teacher lay some tile in his new school. (DH is a tile/marble guy.) In the background, my two kids were running and box balling and having fun with the other kids and what more can I really want? They are just clearly so happy!
Then the lady who is a black belt and an artist came up and we talked and she asked about the hsing, how it works, etc. "No, we don't test, don't use a curric, what we do is called unschooling. We learn as things come up and as we become interested. Etc." (You'll develop you're own spiel as you unschool. :) ) The lady explained that if she ever has children she wouldn't want to send them to school. She was bullied in school (artistic type even then :) ) and thinks it sounds great to hs but thought it was much more regulated, etc. She was happily surprised. But she knows my son. She's seen him and talked with him for years. And she knows he's a great kid. She really got how this relaxed sort of lifestyle is working for him!
Anyway, this is all just to say my family may not be anything like yours. But that's OK. Even within our family there are big differences in interests and rates of learning and what age people do what -- and it's all OK. We don't measure ourselves by what the Florida Sunshine State Standards say the kids should be doing (although I did at one time!). We don't compare our kids to yours or the neighbor's. We try to avoid comparing them even to each other -- even when they do, we point out that it's not a real thing -- to compare one person's interest/ability in one area to another person's passion. It doesn't make sense. To say she draws better and he's quick on a math joke -- it just doesn't bear comparison. So why would a comparison to some list put out in our state's capitol make any sense? :)
I've gone on too long but I know this is all difficult and it is hard to relax and just know that something like reading can't be forced. When you just know it is such an important tool in the world. But it will come. It will. When it is needed. And if your DD can ask you for help when she needs to, so much the better. Rather than shutting down because she feels a particular book or whatever is being forced on her -- if it's her own curiosity about something that leads her to need to be able to read about it -- what a lovely thing to discover and own!
I've been interrupted a bunch of times here and it probably shows in my long ramble -- but you get the idea. :)
Nance
============================================================
My biggest concern with a less
structured approach to
homeschooling is that she'll never learn to read or spell. There are
so many ways to avoid
those things -- books on tape, TV/videos, etc. that she could be very
functional for a long
time without "needing" to read.
Any feedback would be appreciated. If this topic of "how to be sure
your child will learn
what s/he needs to learn" has been discussed recently, just point me to
the archives.
Thanks!
Anne.
First, she lives in a house with lots of books. And magazines. Etc. Bought and ordered specifically for her. She has chosen mostly nature/animal themed mags so far.
And she got a library card. Long before she could actually read. I wonder if the way we go to the library is how other people do it. We walk in and I go to my section (murder mysteries :) ) and DD browses in the kids' section until she finds what she wants. Yesterday it was a DVD. Last time it was a book and a DVD. The time before just a book. She is reading the Animal Ark series and enjoying it a lot.
My job at the library is to have the library card ready when she is ready to check out. To notice what she selected and admire it and then get in the car and drive us home.
Now, at one point (she was 6) she specifically said "everyone but me knows how to read" and demanded to be taught using some sort of organized plan. Together we chose the 100 Easy Lessons book and she did about the middle third of it and that solidified her reading enough that she then went to picking out her own books, etc.
She learned to spell south yesterday. We just switched to bellsouth. :) Spelling things correctly is helpful when you are trying to do anything -- like Google a question or find a book in the library or solve a puzzle -- last week one of her mags had a puzzle that involved alphabetizing some animals to solve it -- the punchline was so corny it was a real groaner -- but she amazed me that she even knew HOW to alphabetize a long list of things :). But, really, when you thnk about it, the idea is pretty obvious -- she just hadn't had it put in front of her as a "worksheet" -- it was something she wanted to play with.
Anyway, my long ramble is just to say -- it's OK. Relax. Maybe my DS won't win any spelling bees. But she reads a lot. Maybe she's not reading what all the other 9 year old girls are reading in our county. But that's OK. It's not a race. It's not a competition.
I could have worried a lot about her not reading early -- that was the example I had in her brother. But I had started to try to relax about all this stuff by then and she got it when she was ready. And continues to grab a book as a way to relax.
We may have to dash down to babysit her 2-year-old cousin when my SIL has the new baby. So what did we make sure we had packed in our "maybe we'll have to stay overnight" bag -- a book for each of us of course! That's what you do when you have free time -- you read something for fun.
It's more a lifestyle thing than a "what grade level are you on, are you keeping up" thing.
Now, take her brother -- the early reader. You won't catch him with a book, no sir! Not fiction anyway. He just doesn't get into it. Now, give him a good logic puzzle book and he'll be happy. Should I get upset that he isn't immersed in whatever 11 yo boy popular fiction is these days?
I don't think so. Not when you see them. I shouldn't be upset that they aren't "on grade level" in any way. Yesterday included an outing to help DS's Tae Kwon Do teacher lay some tile in his new school. (DH is a tile/marble guy.) In the background, my two kids were running and box balling and having fun with the other kids and what more can I really want? They are just clearly so happy!
Then the lady who is a black belt and an artist came up and we talked and she asked about the hsing, how it works, etc. "No, we don't test, don't use a curric, what we do is called unschooling. We learn as things come up and as we become interested. Etc." (You'll develop you're own spiel as you unschool. :) ) The lady explained that if she ever has children she wouldn't want to send them to school. She was bullied in school (artistic type even then :) ) and thinks it sounds great to hs but thought it was much more regulated, etc. She was happily surprised. But she knows my son. She's seen him and talked with him for years. And she knows he's a great kid. She really got how this relaxed sort of lifestyle is working for him!
Anyway, this is all just to say my family may not be anything like yours. But that's OK. Even within our family there are big differences in interests and rates of learning and what age people do what -- and it's all OK. We don't measure ourselves by what the Florida Sunshine State Standards say the kids should be doing (although I did at one time!). We don't compare our kids to yours or the neighbor's. We try to avoid comparing them even to each other -- even when they do, we point out that it's not a real thing -- to compare one person's interest/ability in one area to another person's passion. It doesn't make sense. To say she draws better and he's quick on a math joke -- it just doesn't bear comparison. So why would a comparison to some list put out in our state's capitol make any sense? :)
I've gone on too long but I know this is all difficult and it is hard to relax and just know that something like reading can't be forced. When you just know it is such an important tool in the world. But it will come. It will. When it is needed. And if your DD can ask you for help when she needs to, so much the better. Rather than shutting down because she feels a particular book or whatever is being forced on her -- if it's her own curiosity about something that leads her to need to be able to read about it -- what a lovely thing to discover and own!
I've been interrupted a bunch of times here and it probably shows in my long ramble -- but you get the idea. :)
Nance
============================================================
My biggest concern with a less
structured approach to
homeschooling is that she'll never learn to read or spell. There are
so many ways to avoid
those things -- books on tape, TV/videos, etc. that she could be very
functional for a long
time without "needing" to read.
Any feedback would be appreciated. If this topic of "how to be sure
your child will learn
what s/he needs to learn" has been discussed recently, just point me to
the archives.
Thanks!
Anne.
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/31/2004 11:25:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
marbleface@... writes:
out,,quiet for a while,,and a subject strikes me as ''i have something to say about
that'',,,,i am some concerned,,because i want the best for my kids,,,public
school isnt it ,,,not right now anyway,,,local vo-tech,,worked well for my older
two when the time for it come,,,but until then,,we will learn,,and live ,,and
the stress that my 15yr.old son would experience,,wont be there,,and the clics
and such my daughter would have to deal with wont be there either,,they are
bright ,,laid back,,wonderful kids,,,im glad to have this time with
them,,although i could use the income from a job,,,we make do pretty well,,,most weeks
,,the week before s.s.d,comes inis tight to be sure,,but they are happy,,and soami
,,,any ideas for at home work??between hubby's bipolar,,and
med.changes,,homeschooling,,,not much outside the house work time....June
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marbleface@... writes:
>nance,,i appreciate your ramble,,,its how i end up getting my point
> I've been interrupted a bunch of times here and it probably shows in my long
> ramble -- but you get the idea. :)
>
> Nance
>
>
out,,quiet for a while,,and a subject strikes me as ''i have something to say about
that'',,,,i am some concerned,,because i want the best for my kids,,,public
school isnt it ,,,not right now anyway,,,local vo-tech,,worked well for my older
two when the time for it come,,,but until then,,we will learn,,and live ,,and
the stress that my 15yr.old son would experience,,wont be there,,and the clics
and such my daughter would have to deal with wont be there either,,they are
bright ,,laid back,,wonderful kids,,,im glad to have this time with
them,,although i could use the income from a job,,,we make do pretty well,,,most weeks
,,the week before s.s.d,comes inis tight to be sure,,but they are happy,,and soami
,,,any ideas for at home work??between hubby's bipolar,,and
med.changes,,homeschooling,,,not much outside the house work time....June
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Ratliff
Hello,
I have been homeschooling my 8 year old girl (2nd grade ish) for 3
years
now. We are unschooling little by little as I learn about it and try to
incorporate it into our days. Our homeschooling up to this point has been
mostly reading to her and reading to her and reading to her, and following
her interests as far as she wants to take them. I have learned (the hard
way) that she will learn what she wants, when she wants, and as deep as she
wants and I just need to help her when she wants help and not "teach" her.
My 3 year old son is following the same pattern of being his own person and
not so much doing what I say, but taking what I say as advice and doing what
he thinks is right. I was just like this as a child (still am) so of course
my mom is just laughing and laughing at my trials. I think that the kids
insistence on being treated with respect and not talked down to or ordered
about is pretty neat and it's teaching me to be a better person and to treat
my kids like the real people that they are.
My question has to do with Natalie cleaning her room. I used to ask
her to do chores in the morning. She had one chore a day, and on Mondays
and Fridays her chore was to straighten out her room. I have since stopped
trying to schedule her to do chores, and just ask her to help out when I
need some help. I told her that she was in charge of her room and that I
would not be asking her to clean it 2 days a week anymore. If she wanted it
clean, she could clean it and if she didn't want it clean she did not have
to clean it. That was about a month ago. Her room is now
shin deep in clothes, toys, scraps of paper, tape, etc...I have no problem
with this. She has been having fun creating stuff and playing in there. The
problem is that now she doesn't like playing in there anymore because there
is so much stuff on the floor she can't move. She came up to me and asked
me to help her clean her room. In the past this has not worked for us. It
starts with her helping (picking up the clothes while I pick up the books)
and devolves into her playing while I do all the work. I end up getting
angry about the huge mess, her lack of help and just sending her out of the
room so I can finish it quicker. How can I change this to better reflect an
unschooling attitude? I don't want to shield her from the consequences of
her actions, but I also hate to see her faced with this mountainous task. I
was thinking that maybe I could help her clean as long as she was cleaning
also (and not playing). That means I end up watching her while I'm cleaning
and judging her cleaning to see if it's up to my standards or if I need to
stop helping because she is no longer cleaning like I think she should be
cleaning. Yuck. So far I have been too busy to do anything about her room.
Natalie has asked me several times when we can clean it and I have told her
I'm not sure. When she comes up to me asking for something to do because
she is bored I tell her she can pick up the clothes in her room. This
usually sets off a pouting spree about how hard it is and how she does not
want to and I tell not to do it if she does not want to. Any ideas would be
greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Julie
I have been homeschooling my 8 year old girl (2nd grade ish) for 3
years
now. We are unschooling little by little as I learn about it and try to
incorporate it into our days. Our homeschooling up to this point has been
mostly reading to her and reading to her and reading to her, and following
her interests as far as she wants to take them. I have learned (the hard
way) that she will learn what she wants, when she wants, and as deep as she
wants and I just need to help her when she wants help and not "teach" her.
My 3 year old son is following the same pattern of being his own person and
not so much doing what I say, but taking what I say as advice and doing what
he thinks is right. I was just like this as a child (still am) so of course
my mom is just laughing and laughing at my trials. I think that the kids
insistence on being treated with respect and not talked down to or ordered
about is pretty neat and it's teaching me to be a better person and to treat
my kids like the real people that they are.
My question has to do with Natalie cleaning her room. I used to ask
her to do chores in the morning. She had one chore a day, and on Mondays
and Fridays her chore was to straighten out her room. I have since stopped
trying to schedule her to do chores, and just ask her to help out when I
need some help. I told her that she was in charge of her room and that I
would not be asking her to clean it 2 days a week anymore. If she wanted it
clean, she could clean it and if she didn't want it clean she did not have
to clean it. That was about a month ago. Her room is now
shin deep in clothes, toys, scraps of paper, tape, etc...I have no problem
with this. She has been having fun creating stuff and playing in there. The
problem is that now she doesn't like playing in there anymore because there
is so much stuff on the floor she can't move. She came up to me and asked
me to help her clean her room. In the past this has not worked for us. It
starts with her helping (picking up the clothes while I pick up the books)
and devolves into her playing while I do all the work. I end up getting
angry about the huge mess, her lack of help and just sending her out of the
room so I can finish it quicker. How can I change this to better reflect an
unschooling attitude? I don't want to shield her from the consequences of
her actions, but I also hate to see her faced with this mountainous task. I
was thinking that maybe I could help her clean as long as she was cleaning
also (and not playing). That means I end up watching her while I'm cleaning
and judging her cleaning to see if it's up to my standards or if I need to
stop helping because she is no longer cleaning like I think she should be
cleaning. Yuck. So far I have been too busy to do anything about her room.
Natalie has asked me several times when we can clean it and I have told her
I'm not sure. When she comes up to me asking for something to do because
she is bored I tell her she can pick up the clothes in her room. This
usually sets off a pouting spree about how hard it is and how she does not
want to and I tell not to do it if she does not want to. Any ideas would be
greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Julie
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<If she wanted it
clean, she could clean it and if she didn't want it clean she did not have
to clean it. That was about a month ago. Her room is now
shin deep in clothes, toys, scraps of paper, tape, etc...I have no problem
with this. >>>>>>
Left it too long - good experiment though.
<<<<< In the past this has not worked for us.>>>>
Now Julie, don't you really mean it has not worked for *you*? ;)
<<<< This usually sets off a pouting spree about how hard it is and how she
does not want to and I tell not to do it if she does not want to. Any ideas
would be greatly appreciated.>>>>>
OK, here are my thoughts:
Firstly if it such a horrible big job for you, no wonder it is overwhelming
for her. I think you are kinda abandoning her to a task that is too big for
her - maybe always was too big. She needs help. Try to let go of your "teach
her responsibility" agenda.
Here's what I do with Jayn's small playroom - which can get absolutely full
and unusable very quickly. I ask her if she is done with the game (usually
Barbie's), so that I can put it away. Then I put it away in the very
organized system of canvas boxes that I have created to facilitate the clean
ups and storage.
I do the same with the games that Jayn spreads out in the living room, and
in the bedroom. I do the same when her art table becomes overrun with
partially completed projects and tools. I put away the clothes that she
tends to dump on the floor in her quest to get at her clothes in her drawers
immediately after. (This latter I sometime grumble a bit about - although I
do the same for my dh's clothes and laundry - and part of the problem is
poor drawer organization. She wouldn't need to drop stuff if she could see
her stuff more easily)
These swift clean ups are my gift to Jayn - the gift of a clean slate. I do
them often so that they are not too time consuming for me.
For some reason, of being busy with other stuff, her room had been left for
a long time last week, and the same phenomenon of not playing in there had
occurred. I just bit the bullet and took the extra time to tidy it and she
was really grateful. I also took the opportunity to move Jayn's art table
out of her room and back to the living room - the reverse placement was an
experiment that failed to make her life easier. The result has been non-stop
art creation for the two days that it has been back accessible.
Recently she has started spontaneously putting some things away by herself.
She has also started helping me with the clean ups, especially when things
have gotten out of hand in the living room. Other times she continues to
play while I tidy up - we are still spending time together both being happy.
I have posted before about the lovely moments when Jayn has given us the
sweet gift of a surprise bed make or grocery bag empty or jumped up to take
my plate to the kitchen. Yesterday she got out a fresh toilet roll on her
own recognizance.
There was a problem with bits of small plastic that hold the straws onto
juice boxes. I was forever finding them on the floor all over the house. I
told Jayn that it was hard for me to be bending and asked for her
suggestions. She said that she would bring them to me, and now she does -
almost always. One less little bit of mess to worry about.
The other thing is that if I truly don't want to do a big clean up, I give
myself permission not to at that time, and do it when I feel energetic.
My advice therefore is to cheerfully clean up her room before it gets out of
hand. Enjoy her being in there keeping you company. If it continues to bug
you that you are working while she plays, then do it while she is busy
elsewhere. (I wonder if there is a parallel here to how our dh's may
sometimes feel off working while we play).
Know that she will eventually spontaneously enjoy helping you with household
stuff and even start giving you gifts of unlooked for help. Take the
opportunity to examine the land use aspect of her room and storage systems
to update it for ease of use and clean up.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005
clean, she could clean it and if she didn't want it clean she did not have
to clean it. That was about a month ago. Her room is now
shin deep in clothes, toys, scraps of paper, tape, etc...I have no problem
with this. >>>>>>
Left it too long - good experiment though.
<<<<< In the past this has not worked for us.>>>>
Now Julie, don't you really mean it has not worked for *you*? ;)
<<<< This usually sets off a pouting spree about how hard it is and how she
does not want to and I tell not to do it if she does not want to. Any ideas
would be greatly appreciated.>>>>>
OK, here are my thoughts:
Firstly if it such a horrible big job for you, no wonder it is overwhelming
for her. I think you are kinda abandoning her to a task that is too big for
her - maybe always was too big. She needs help. Try to let go of your "teach
her responsibility" agenda.
Here's what I do with Jayn's small playroom - which can get absolutely full
and unusable very quickly. I ask her if she is done with the game (usually
Barbie's), so that I can put it away. Then I put it away in the very
organized system of canvas boxes that I have created to facilitate the clean
ups and storage.
I do the same with the games that Jayn spreads out in the living room, and
in the bedroom. I do the same when her art table becomes overrun with
partially completed projects and tools. I put away the clothes that she
tends to dump on the floor in her quest to get at her clothes in her drawers
immediately after. (This latter I sometime grumble a bit about - although I
do the same for my dh's clothes and laundry - and part of the problem is
poor drawer organization. She wouldn't need to drop stuff if she could see
her stuff more easily)
These swift clean ups are my gift to Jayn - the gift of a clean slate. I do
them often so that they are not too time consuming for me.
For some reason, of being busy with other stuff, her room had been left for
a long time last week, and the same phenomenon of not playing in there had
occurred. I just bit the bullet and took the extra time to tidy it and she
was really grateful. I also took the opportunity to move Jayn's art table
out of her room and back to the living room - the reverse placement was an
experiment that failed to make her life easier. The result has been non-stop
art creation for the two days that it has been back accessible.
Recently she has started spontaneously putting some things away by herself.
She has also started helping me with the clean ups, especially when things
have gotten out of hand in the living room. Other times she continues to
play while I tidy up - we are still spending time together both being happy.
I have posted before about the lovely moments when Jayn has given us the
sweet gift of a surprise bed make or grocery bag empty or jumped up to take
my plate to the kitchen. Yesterday she got out a fresh toilet roll on her
own recognizance.
There was a problem with bits of small plastic that hold the straws onto
juice boxes. I was forever finding them on the floor all over the house. I
told Jayn that it was hard for me to be bending and asked for her
suggestions. She said that she would bring them to me, and now she does -
almost always. One less little bit of mess to worry about.
The other thing is that if I truly don't want to do a big clean up, I give
myself permission not to at that time, and do it when I feel energetic.
My advice therefore is to cheerfully clean up her room before it gets out of
hand. Enjoy her being in there keeping you company. If it continues to bug
you that you are working while she plays, then do it while she is busy
elsewhere. (I wonder if there is a parallel here to how our dh's may
sometimes feel off working while we play).
Know that she will eventually spontaneously enjoy helping you with household
stuff and even start giving you gifts of unlooked for help. Take the
opportunity to examine the land use aspect of her room and storage systems
to update it for ease of use and clean up.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005
[email protected]
>>I end up gettingangry about the huge mess, her lack of help and just sending her out of the
room so I can finish it quicker. How can I change this to better reflect an
unschooling attitude?>>
Stop getting angry. It's all about attitude. I will help Casey clean her room when she asks. Quite often I'll end up doing a larger share of the task. That's okay. We're spending time together and I don't mind the physical act of putting things away and sorting and tidying. We're also talking and laughing and discovering bits and pieces of new connections. I actually like when she finds something wonderful in her room to play with again.
Some days, if her room is really bothering me, I'll go in and clean it all by myself while listening to music or a book on tape. Casey is always delighted and truly appreciative of my help. She repays me with other kindnesses more suited to her own temperament and personality.
>>Natalie has asked me several times when we can clean it and I have told her I'm not sure.>>Next time she asks, try setting a timer for 15 or 30 minutes and clean for only that long. Quit when the timer goes off, done or not. Just like in unschooling, everything counts in cleaning. Keep at it in little spurts like this and the job will get done eventually.
>>When she comes up to me asking for something to do becauseshe is bored I tell her she can pick up the clothes in her room.>>
I always HATED hearing stuff like this from my mom. Here I was I was asking for inspiration and she was giving me Puritan work ethic.<g> I've been known to spout the same suggestion at my kids from time to time. It's not a great one. I have to consciously remind myself to remember what's important in *their* world and work from that.
--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
"Just today I'm going to be utterly present for my children, I'm going to be in their world (not just doing my own thing while they do theirs), I'm going to really hear them, I'm going to prepare myself to be present starting right now."
~Ren Allen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
Our living room/dining room is also our play area and the space where
toys are stored, in a very handy set of dishpans on shelves. But
sometimes if the kids have been busy and there are toys, pieces of
paper, all kind of stuff strewn everywhere it feels overwhelming to
me to try to pick it all up and sort it into its proper bins. What I
do then is get an empty laundry basket, and start at one end, working
my way to the other end and just tossing everything into the laundry
basket. That gets the floor picked up and helps me feel a bit more
"whelmed." Later, I set a timer for five minutes and work on sorting
the contents of the laundry basket into their appropriate dishpans. I
do little five-minute spurts off and on until it's put away.
My 4 yo finds it too much to try to pick up and sort things into
various bins. The laundry basket approach works well for him, too,
because it's simple: if something is on the floor, it goes in the
basket. The baby can help, too.
Su
toys are stored, in a very handy set of dishpans on shelves. But
sometimes if the kids have been busy and there are toys, pieces of
paper, all kind of stuff strewn everywhere it feels overwhelming to
me to try to pick it all up and sort it into its proper bins. What I
do then is get an empty laundry basket, and start at one end, working
my way to the other end and just tossing everything into the laundry
basket. That gets the floor picked up and helps me feel a bit more
"whelmed." Later, I set a timer for five minutes and work on sorting
the contents of the laundry basket into their appropriate dishpans. I
do little five-minute spurts off and on until it's put away.
My 4 yo finds it too much to try to pick up and sort things into
various bins. The laundry basket approach works well for him, too,
because it's simple: if something is on the floor, it goes in the
basket. The baby can help, too.
Su
[email protected]
Hi,
I hear you want to help her, so how do you go about helping her clean her room without getting angry?
I suggest you give her the gift of a clean room. Maybe even do it when she is at a friends house. All the way to having flowers on her desk, just because you love her.
Or while she plays happily with whatever you turn up from the depths of her mess, talk to her about where she wants to put things, get her opinion on what you are throwing away. You can be engaged with her while doing all the physical stuff. The mental stuff is hard work too, figuring out where to hang the pictures, or if she wants to save her friends broken bracelet.
Once I stopped mentally insisting my dd help clean her room, I found joy in the process. I try to always help her when she asks me, if it is reasonable. And if I am too busy with something, I tell her when I will be available.
My dd keeps a messy room and about 1 time a month I go and clean it up while she is away and she so loves it, to come home to clean sheets and a made bed with the pillows just perfect and the floor vacuumed. Once clean it stays cleans until a gaggle of girls turn it into a fashion design studio. She has cleaned it her self, but she enjoys my company and I am happy to be there.
Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I hear you want to help her, so how do you go about helping her clean her room without getting angry?
I suggest you give her the gift of a clean room. Maybe even do it when she is at a friends house. All the way to having flowers on her desk, just because you love her.
Or while she plays happily with whatever you turn up from the depths of her mess, talk to her about where she wants to put things, get her opinion on what you are throwing away. You can be engaged with her while doing all the physical stuff. The mental stuff is hard work too, figuring out where to hang the pictures, or if she wants to save her friends broken bracelet.
Once I stopped mentally insisting my dd help clean her room, I found joy in the process. I try to always help her when she asks me, if it is reasonable. And if I am too busy with something, I tell her when I will be available.
My dd keeps a messy room and about 1 time a month I go and clean it up while she is away and she so loves it, to come home to clean sheets and a made bed with the pillows just perfect and the floor vacuumed. Once clean it stays cleans until a gaggle of girls turn it into a fashion design studio. She has cleaned it her self, but she enjoys my company and I am happy to be there.
Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nrskay
My 11 yo dd has a messy room(not mounds of stuff, but messy) and bath,
but she doesn't want me to clean it anymore. I often cleaned her room
for her and would continue if she wanted, but she has advised me a few
months ago that she will take care of it.
This coincided with her starting her period, so, I'm wondering if it
is a private issue now. On laundry day she brings me the laundry and
on trash day she insist on emptying her own trash. I was willing to
continue, are their any other tween moms that this happen to?
We are allowed to be in her room to play video games with her, watch a
TV program or just to hang out, but I'm not allowed to pick up. I
loving enjoy serving her by picking up, cleaning her bath and doing
her laundry. Would love to continue....
Kay
but she doesn't want me to clean it anymore. I often cleaned her room
for her and would continue if she wanted, but she has advised me a few
months ago that she will take care of it.
This coincided with her starting her period, so, I'm wondering if it
is a private issue now. On laundry day she brings me the laundry and
on trash day she insist on emptying her own trash. I was willing to
continue, are their any other tween moms that this happen to?
We are allowed to be in her room to play video games with her, watch a
TV program or just to hang out, but I'm not allowed to pick up. I
loving enjoy serving her by picking up, cleaning her bath and doing
her laundry. Would love to continue....
Kay
Deb
--- In [email protected], "mamaaj2000"
<mamaaj2000@y...> wrote:
chicken and veggies, the typical type stuff). DH and I sit down to the
table to eat - I'm just getting home from work at that time so we use
the time to connect and sort out the evening's activities and whatnot.
DS can choose to sit at the table, take his plate to the living room
and finish watching whatever he's into at the time, finish doing
something and come in to the table, even choose to skip it and eat
later on (although that's a rarity since he's a 7 1/2 yr old all
energy, all the time, growing, hungry boy - one time he was hitting a
growing spot and was eating 3 egg omelettes as 'snacks' along with a
regular breakfast, lunch, dinner and other in-betweens).
I too just have to eat upon rising (I get up, shower, then eat after
that the rest of the day can start). DH and DS however tend to prefer
to wait a short while (anywhere from 15 minutes to an hourish) before
eating. Don't know exactly why but that's what works best for them.
I think if the evening meal is made inviting and non-mandatory you're
more likely to have a pleasant meal (which I think is what most folks
want - rarely do they want a 'sit down because I said so I don't care
how you feel' time). Sometimes DS will take his plate to the living
room then bring it back again after whatever is over (unless he just
postpones starting which is also okay) to sit with us. And, sometimes,
when he brings his plate back (yup he brings his plate, utensils, etc
back to the kitchen without being asked), if we're still sitting
there, he'll sit with us and chat.
--Deb
<mamaaj2000@y...> wrote:
>Dinner is prepared as a sit down meal (pasta and sauce, stir fry,
>
> A number of people posted about the healthy snacks their kids choose
> throughout the day. What about sit down meals? It's vital to me to
> eat breakfast and it sure helps my ds' (3.5) mood if he eats fairly
> soon after waking up. Small meals and snacks throughout the day are
> fine with me, but I sure like the idea of a sit down dinner for the
> family. So I'm curious what unschooling families do--skip big sit
> down big meals, have them completely optional, etc.
chicken and veggies, the typical type stuff). DH and I sit down to the
table to eat - I'm just getting home from work at that time so we use
the time to connect and sort out the evening's activities and whatnot.
DS can choose to sit at the table, take his plate to the living room
and finish watching whatever he's into at the time, finish doing
something and come in to the table, even choose to skip it and eat
later on (although that's a rarity since he's a 7 1/2 yr old all
energy, all the time, growing, hungry boy - one time he was hitting a
growing spot and was eating 3 egg omelettes as 'snacks' along with a
regular breakfast, lunch, dinner and other in-betweens).
I too just have to eat upon rising (I get up, shower, then eat after
that the rest of the day can start). DH and DS however tend to prefer
to wait a short while (anywhere from 15 minutes to an hourish) before
eating. Don't know exactly why but that's what works best for them.
I think if the evening meal is made inviting and non-mandatory you're
more likely to have a pleasant meal (which I think is what most folks
want - rarely do they want a 'sit down because I said so I don't care
how you feel' time). Sometimes DS will take his plate to the living
room then bring it back again after whatever is over (unless he just
postpones starting which is also okay) to sit with us. And, sometimes,
when he brings his plate back (yup he brings his plate, utensils, etc
back to the kitchen without being asked), if we're still sitting
there, he'll sit with us and chat.
--Deb
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 11, 2005, at 3:10 PM, Julie Ratliff wrote:
they can master ;-)
They often seem as competent as adults but they're still just kids.
Right now, after working on National Novel Writing Month with my
daughter where everything but the basic necessities (food and clean
dishes) were attended to, the house is still pretty much trashed.
Looking at it is overwhelming. I don't know where to begin. I know
that even if I give it an hour it's still going to look trashed.
(From past experience I know a 3 day blitz will get it back into
shape -- which I'll have to do since my in-laws are coming for
Christmas ;-) -- but it's a huge commitment of time and energy -- and
putting aside of more fun things!)
*That's* how a messy room can look to a child. In fact that's how a
pile of toys in the living room can look to a younger child. It's
huge and overwhelming.
When parents can't understand why a child isn't doing something on
their own, multiply it by tenfold and see how it looks to you. :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> That was about a month ago. Her room is nowIt's helpful to realize that kids can create far bigger messes than
> shin deep in clothes, toys, scraps of paper, tape, etc...I have no
> problem
> with this.
they can master ;-)
They often seem as competent as adults but they're still just kids.
Right now, after working on National Novel Writing Month with my
daughter where everything but the basic necessities (food and clean
dishes) were attended to, the house is still pretty much trashed.
Looking at it is overwhelming. I don't know where to begin. I know
that even if I give it an hour it's still going to look trashed.
(From past experience I know a 3 day blitz will get it back into
shape -- which I'll have to do since my in-laws are coming for
Christmas ;-) -- but it's a huge commitment of time and energy -- and
putting aside of more fun things!)
*That's* how a messy room can look to a child. In fact that's how a
pile of toys in the living room can look to a younger child. It's
huge and overwhelming.
When parents can't understand why a child isn't doing something on
their own, multiply it by tenfold and see how it looks to you. :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/11/2005 9:22:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
Some days, if her room is really bothering me, I'll go in and clean it all
by myself while listening to music or a book on tape. Casey is always
delighted and truly appreciative of my help. She repays me with other kindnesses more
suited to her own temperament and personality.
~~~~~~~~~~
This is my kids, as I have noticed. Don't like picking up their clothes and
toys, but, they think the Dust Buster and dusting mitts are toys. LOL... As
I'm beginning to see their likes and dislikes more, I will gladly let them use
those to their hearts' content and I will straighten their rooms out. I
dislike dusting, so more power to them LOL
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
Some days, if her room is really bothering me, I'll go in and clean it all
by myself while listening to music or a book on tape. Casey is always
delighted and truly appreciative of my help. She repays me with other kindnesses more
suited to her own temperament and personality.
~~~~~~~~~~
This is my kids, as I have noticed. Don't like picking up their clothes and
toys, but, they think the Dust Buster and dusting mitts are toys. LOL... As
I'm beginning to see their likes and dislikes more, I will gladly let them use
those to their hearts' content and I will straighten their rooms out. I
dislike dusting, so more power to them LOL
Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]