Limits and bedtimes...
julie
I am relatively new to the unschooling thought process.. and through
this group, have started reading Unconditional Parenting, I see that
many of what is said in this conversation is of value to me....
But a specific question.... how do I get my 4 year old to go to sleep?
If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and the lights,
etc. How can I get her to go to bed? I have been trying to let her
have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bed with
her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 at night,
and is cranky the next day. Any suggestions would be helpful. I have
4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself. With her
staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am missing MY
time.... is this not right?
Thanks
this group, have started reading Unconditional Parenting, I see that
many of what is said in this conversation is of value to me....
But a specific question.... how do I get my 4 year old to go to sleep?
If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and the lights,
etc. How can I get her to go to bed? I have been trying to let her
have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bed with
her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 at night,
and is cranky the next day. Any suggestions would be helpful. I have
4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself. With her
staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am missing MY
time.... is this not right?
Thanks
beensclan
--- In [email protected], "julie" <brihanna@...>
wrote:
o'clock. Before I fully embraced an unschoolin/worldschooling
thinking, I too felt that I was being robbed of "MY time". Funny
enough, when I let THAT go, I started looking forward to my family
life in the "late hours". The great thing too is that I still get to
do things that I always used to enjoy during "MY time". We all end
up doing our own thing in the evenings, like playing on the computer,
or (if you're me) reading a novel, tinkering in the garage or
whatever. My four year old will sometimes come and cuddle with me on
the porch swing, but the pressure is off. There are no negative
feelings or anyone saying, "two minutes before bed"....we just enjoy
the moon and chat about silly things. Basically, when I changed my
perspective, I let go of threats, manipulations and all those yucky
trappings. Now our evenings are mellow and enjoyable. Nobody
fights, I'm not stressed out, it works!
I keep thinking that this is just one season in my life. One day
I'll probably miss these "late hours".
Warmly,
Mel
wrote:
>, I feel slightly resentful that I am missing MY
> time.... is this not right?I have a four year old too who doesn't go to bed until around ten
>
>
o'clock. Before I fully embraced an unschoolin/worldschooling
thinking, I too felt that I was being robbed of "MY time". Funny
enough, when I let THAT go, I started looking forward to my family
life in the "late hours". The great thing too is that I still get to
do things that I always used to enjoy during "MY time". We all end
up doing our own thing in the evenings, like playing on the computer,
or (if you're me) reading a novel, tinkering in the garage or
whatever. My four year old will sometimes come and cuddle with me on
the porch swing, but the pressure is off. There are no negative
feelings or anyone saying, "two minutes before bed"....we just enjoy
the moon and chat about silly things. Basically, when I changed my
perspective, I let go of threats, manipulations and all those yucky
trappings. Now our evenings are mellow and enjoyable. Nobody
fights, I'm not stressed out, it works!
I keep thinking that this is just one season in my life. One day
I'll probably miss these "late hours".
Warmly,
Mel
keetry
--- In [email protected], "julie" <brihanna@...>
wrote:
right now. It's 9:19 pm. We'll probably go to bed soon because we're
both getting tired. Is your 4yo able to sleep as late as she wants
in the morning? The crankiness may be from being woken before she's
ready. Or it could just be normal crankiness after a long day.
I think with that many children in that age range, you will probably
need to get rid of your idea of getting "me" time the way you are
thinking. Find ways to get that time while they are around or during
the day or just decide to let it go for now with the understanding
that as they get older you will have more time for yourself (and
will probably lament that you don't have as much kid time anymore).
Alysia
wrote:
>through
> I am relatively new to the unschooling thought process.. and
> this group, have started reading Unconditional Parenting, I seethat
> many of what is said in this conversation is of value to me....sleep?
>
> But a specific question.... how do I get my 4 year old to go to
> If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and thelights,
> etc. How can I get her to go to bed? I have been trying to lether
> have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bedwith
> her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 atnight,
> and is cranky the next day. Any suggestions would be helpful. Ihave
> 4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself.With her
> staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am missingMY
> time.... is this not right?10 pm isn't really all that late to me. I'm still up with my 4yo
>
> Thanks
>
right now. It's 9:19 pm. We'll probably go to bed soon because we're
both getting tired. Is your 4yo able to sleep as late as she wants
in the morning? The crankiness may be from being woken before she's
ready. Or it could just be normal crankiness after a long day.
I think with that many children in that age range, you will probably
need to get rid of your idea of getting "me" time the way you are
thinking. Find ways to get that time while they are around or during
the day or just decide to let it go for now with the understanding
that as they get older you will have more time for yourself (and
will probably lament that you don't have as much kid time anymore).
Alysia
Jodi Bezzola
~~But a specific question.... how do I get my 4 year old to go to sleep?
If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and the lights,
etc. How can I get her to go to bed? I have been trying to let her
have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bed with
her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 at night,
and is cranky the next day. Any suggestions would be helpful. I have
4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself. With her
staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am missing MY
time.... is this not right?~~
Reading this makes me realize how far I've come in the way I think about 'bedtime' and 'my time'.
We're relatively new too, just read John Holt last summer and it all sprouted from there.
If you read back in the archives under bedtimes, you'll find lots and lots to address your concerns. Warning: you might not love what you read on first read - I didn't!
There are lots of things you can do to 'set the mood', as in shut down the house as if everyone is going to bed, which really helped us make the transition, but every kid is so different, and it's about giving them the freedom to learn when they're tired, and taking the power struggle out of going to bed/sleep. We thought what we were doing was working, and it pretty much was until they decided they wanted to decide for themselves, then bedtimes became very intense and unpleasant. Giving up control has allowed it to be peaceful again.
The first while we did this we didn't just start saying yes more (which is what the wise ones recommend), we threw out all rules and restrictions and as a result there was *huge* party time around here for awhile with bedtimes between midnight and 1 for our 3 year old twins. Now that month forced me to grow!!! And then they settled out. We have an evening routine now that works for us, and the girls let us know when they're tired, which is usually around 10. What I love is that they don't have to push through and pretend they're *not* tired just to stay up later than they would be 'allowed' to if we had rules.
Also, when I honour what they're telling me, allowing them to go to sleep when their little bodies are tired and not some preordained time so I can get 'my time', the 'my time' just sort of magically happens. It's like the time available to me expands or something, weird, but real.
I hope this helps a little, and I really encourage you to peruse the archives!
Jodi
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and the lights,
etc. How can I get her to go to bed? I have been trying to let her
have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bed with
her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 at night,
and is cranky the next day. Any suggestions would be helpful. I have
4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself. With her
staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am missing MY
time.... is this not right?~~
Reading this makes me realize how far I've come in the way I think about 'bedtime' and 'my time'.
We're relatively new too, just read John Holt last summer and it all sprouted from there.
If you read back in the archives under bedtimes, you'll find lots and lots to address your concerns. Warning: you might not love what you read on first read - I didn't!
There are lots of things you can do to 'set the mood', as in shut down the house as if everyone is going to bed, which really helped us make the transition, but every kid is so different, and it's about giving them the freedom to learn when they're tired, and taking the power struggle out of going to bed/sleep. We thought what we were doing was working, and it pretty much was until they decided they wanted to decide for themselves, then bedtimes became very intense and unpleasant. Giving up control has allowed it to be peaceful again.
The first while we did this we didn't just start saying yes more (which is what the wise ones recommend), we threw out all rules and restrictions and as a result there was *huge* party time around here for awhile with bedtimes between midnight and 1 for our 3 year old twins. Now that month forced me to grow!!! And then they settled out. We have an evening routine now that works for us, and the girls let us know when they're tired, which is usually around 10. What I love is that they don't have to push through and pretend they're *not* tired just to stay up later than they would be 'allowed' to if we had rules.
Also, when I honour what they're telling me, allowing them to go to sleep when their little bodies are tired and not some preordained time so I can get 'my time', the 'my time' just sort of magically happens. It's like the time available to me expands or something, weird, but real.
I hope this helps a little, and I really encourage you to peruse the archives!
Jodi
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
julie leonard
alysia
you are right. I have always thought that my day ends at bedtime, and bedtime is around 7 or 8. She can sleep as late as she wants, as we do not have "school" or "stuff" to do in the morning.
I know she is beginning to give up naps, and generally keeps herself occupied during that time. I imagine, that is what I have to do.. change how I think about my ME time. Thank you.
I will try to enjoy the times she is up with me, (and give up the things I do at night for now)
I appreciate your response
***Julie***
Life is hard. It is harder if your stupid.
----- Original Message ----
From: keetry <keetry@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:20:04 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Limits and bedtimes...
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "julie" <brihanna@.. .>
wrote:
right now. It's 9:19 pm. We'll probably go to bed soon because we're
both getting tired. Is your 4yo able to sleep as late as she wants
in the morning? The crankiness may be from being woken before she's
ready. Or it could just be normal crankiness after a long day.
I think with that many children in that age range, you will probably
need to get rid of your idea of getting "me" time the way you are
thinking. Find ways to get that time while they are around or during
the day or just decide to let it go for now with the understanding
that as they get older you will have more time for yourself (and
will probably lament that you don't have as much kid time anymore).
Alysia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you are right. I have always thought that my day ends at bedtime, and bedtime is around 7 or 8. She can sleep as late as she wants, as we do not have "school" or "stuff" to do in the morning.
I know she is beginning to give up naps, and generally keeps herself occupied during that time. I imagine, that is what I have to do.. change how I think about my ME time. Thank you.
I will try to enjoy the times she is up with me, (and give up the things I do at night for now)
I appreciate your response
***Julie***
Life is hard. It is harder if your stupid.
----- Original Message ----
From: keetry <keetry@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:20:04 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Limits and bedtimes...
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "julie" <brihanna@.. .>
wrote:
>through
> I am relatively new to the unschooling thought process.. and
> this group, have started reading Unconditional Parenting, I seethat
> many of what is said in this conversation is of value to me....sleep?
>
> But a specific question.... how do I get my 4 year old to go to
> If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and thelights,
> etc. How can I get her to go to bed? I have been trying to lether
> have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bedwith
> her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 atnight,
> and is cranky the next day. Any suggestions would be helpful. Ihave
> 4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself.With her
> staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am missingMY
> time.... is this not right?10 pm isn't really all that late to me. I'm still up with my 4yo
>
> Thanks
>
right now. It's 9:19 pm. We'll probably go to bed soon because we're
both getting tired. Is your 4yo able to sleep as late as she wants
in the morning? The crankiness may be from being woken before she's
ready. Or it could just be normal crankiness after a long day.
I think with that many children in that age range, you will probably
need to get rid of your idea of getting "me" time the way you are
thinking. Find ways to get that time while they are around or during
the day or just decide to let it go for now with the understanding
that as they get older you will have more time for yourself (and
will probably lament that you don't have as much kid time anymore).
Alysia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle Thedaker
Julie,
This was one of my recent "sticking points" along the unschooling path;
bedtime. When my kids were very little - babies and toddlers - there was
never a bedtime. The kids went to bed when they were tired, via nursing to
sleep. And then, when they were around 3ish, bedtime reared its controlling
head. I'm guessing that by that time of their lives (particularly my first
son, who has Autism and took mucho energy!), I was tired and worn out
(mostly my fault, though I'd never have admitted it!) and decided that damn
it, I needed MY time back. So bedtime became a Big Deal, and the fighting,
crying, whining, threatening, punishing phase began in our household. Yuck.
I re-read John Holt in December and was reminded how beautiful and *right*
the unschooling lifestyle was for me. We started moving in that direction
and are still slowly saying "yes" more and giving more and more control back
to the kids (where it belongs!). For several months I was still wound up
pretty tightly over nighttime. The official bedtime was gone, which made
the kids thrilled, but I was still resentful of MY time being sucked away.
I honestly don't know how it happened, but after reading your post, I
realized that my resentment is gone. Totally gone. I still get tired at
night, and if loud exuberant play is happening late (for me that would be
10ish), I definitely request that we all get settled down and redirect
people to quieter pursuits. But there's no more massive stress or upset for
me. My 8yo son is often up to midnight, quietly playing on the computer or
DS in his room. We often don't even know he's still up he's so quiet! My
4yo son usually crashes out around 10-11, with gentle help from us (i.e. not
telling him to go to bed, but when he is acting tired, suggesting bed and
helping him go that direction if he feels he is ready).
It's a strange concept at first, and it feels strange for a while. But
everyone I hear from on this subject says the same; those feelings of
awkwardness go away, replaced with peace and relief that the bedtime battles
are over for good!
Shell & Da Boys
Drew, 8.5 and Josh, 4.5
www.thedaker.blogspot.com
"If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you
love, you have to find the courage to live it." John Irving
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of julie
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Limits and bedtimes...
I am relatively new to the unschooling thought process.. and through
this group, have started reading Unconditional Parenting, I see that
many of what is said in this conversation is of value to me....
But a specific question.... how do I get my 4 year old to go to sleep?
If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and the lights,
etc. How can I get her to go to bed? I have been trying to let her
have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bed with
her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 at night,
and is cranky the next day. Any suggestions would be helpful. I have
4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself. With her
staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am missing MY
time.... is this not right?
Thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This was one of my recent "sticking points" along the unschooling path;
bedtime. When my kids were very little - babies and toddlers - there was
never a bedtime. The kids went to bed when they were tired, via nursing to
sleep. And then, when they were around 3ish, bedtime reared its controlling
head. I'm guessing that by that time of their lives (particularly my first
son, who has Autism and took mucho energy!), I was tired and worn out
(mostly my fault, though I'd never have admitted it!) and decided that damn
it, I needed MY time back. So bedtime became a Big Deal, and the fighting,
crying, whining, threatening, punishing phase began in our household. Yuck.
I re-read John Holt in December and was reminded how beautiful and *right*
the unschooling lifestyle was for me. We started moving in that direction
and are still slowly saying "yes" more and giving more and more control back
to the kids (where it belongs!). For several months I was still wound up
pretty tightly over nighttime. The official bedtime was gone, which made
the kids thrilled, but I was still resentful of MY time being sucked away.
I honestly don't know how it happened, but after reading your post, I
realized that my resentment is gone. Totally gone. I still get tired at
night, and if loud exuberant play is happening late (for me that would be
10ish), I definitely request that we all get settled down and redirect
people to quieter pursuits. But there's no more massive stress or upset for
me. My 8yo son is often up to midnight, quietly playing on the computer or
DS in his room. We often don't even know he's still up he's so quiet! My
4yo son usually crashes out around 10-11, with gentle help from us (i.e. not
telling him to go to bed, but when he is acting tired, suggesting bed and
helping him go that direction if he feels he is ready).
It's a strange concept at first, and it feels strange for a while. But
everyone I hear from on this subject says the same; those feelings of
awkwardness go away, replaced with peace and relief that the bedtime battles
are over for good!
Shell & Da Boys
Drew, 8.5 and Josh, 4.5
www.thedaker.blogspot.com
"If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you
love, you have to find the courage to live it." John Irving
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of julie
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Limits and bedtimes...
I am relatively new to the unschooling thought process.. and through
this group, have started reading Unconditional Parenting, I see that
many of what is said in this conversation is of value to me....
But a specific question.... how do I get my 4 year old to go to sleep?
If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and the lights,
etc. How can I get her to go to bed? I have been trying to let her
have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bed with
her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 at night,
and is cranky the next day. Any suggestions would be helpful. I have
4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself. With her
staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am missing MY
time.... is this not right?
Thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jmarkoski
Still up at 10:59 pm here in North Carolina with my 2.5 year old.
He's jumping up and down on my bed watching Bob the Builder on demand
and reading books. The late rare nap is manifesting tonight...The
baby started the night off in a crib and when he wakes up (probably
in the next hour) I am going to bring him to our room and try to get
all 3 of us to sleep! Husband is out of town for the first time
since the baby was born, but I'm feeling brave! I can do this.
Julie M
james 9.9.5
tyler 6.8.7
He's jumping up and down on my bed watching Bob the Builder on demand
and reading books. The late rare nap is manifesting tonight...The
baby started the night off in a crib and when he wakes up (probably
in the next hour) I am going to bring him to our room and try to get
all 3 of us to sleep! Husband is out of town for the first time
since the baby was born, but I'm feeling brave! I can do this.
Julie M
james 9.9.5
tyler 6.8.7
>we're
> 10 pm isn't really all that late to me. I'm still up with my 4yo
> right now. It's 9:19 pm. We'll probably go to bed soon because
> both getting tired. Is your 4yo able to sleep as late as she wantsprobably
> in the morning? The crankiness may be from being woken before she's
> ready. Or it could just be normal crankiness after a long day.
>
> I think with that many children in that age range, you will
> need to get rid of your idea of getting "me" time the way you areduring
> thinking. Find ways to get that time while they are around or
> the day or just decide to let it go for now with the understanding
> that as they get older you will have more time for yourself (and
> will probably lament that you don't have as much kid time anymore).
>
> Alysia
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
It is 11:40 PM in MN and I just laid in bed. DH who gets up at 4:30 Am EVERY morning just came to bed too( he was watching the Twins- I suspect he mostly slept thru the game anyhow).
DS ( almost 6 is right beside me playing Lego Star Wars on his DS and to the other side is DD ( 26 months) who felt asleep about 25 minutes ago and will nurse several times thru the night( sometimes little-sometimes a bunch).
We sleep in two Queen size beds next to each other.
Both DH and I love it!
Would not do it any other way.
Alex
jmarkoski <jmarkoski@...> wrote:
Still up at 10:59 pm here in North Carolina with my 2.5 year old.
He's jumping up and down on my bed watching Bob the Builder on demand
and reading books. The late rare nap is manifesting tonight...The
baby started the night off in a crib and when he wakes up (probably
in the next hour) I am going to bring him to our room and try to get
all 3 of us to sleep! Husband is out of town for the first time
since the baby was born, but I'm feeling brave! I can do this.
Julie M
james 9.9.5
tyler 6.8.7
DS ( almost 6 is right beside me playing Lego Star Wars on his DS and to the other side is DD ( 26 months) who felt asleep about 25 minutes ago and will nurse several times thru the night( sometimes little-sometimes a bunch).
We sleep in two Queen size beds next to each other.
Both DH and I love it!
Would not do it any other way.
Alex
jmarkoski <jmarkoski@...> wrote:
Still up at 10:59 pm here in North Carolina with my 2.5 year old.
He's jumping up and down on my bed watching Bob the Builder on demand
and reading books. The late rare nap is manifesting tonight...The
baby started the night off in a crib and when he wakes up (probably
in the next hour) I am going to bring him to our room and try to get
all 3 of us to sleep! Husband is out of town for the first time
since the baby was born, but I'm feeling brave! I can do this.
Julie M
james 9.9.5
tyler 6.8.7
>we're
> 10 pm isn't really all that late to me. I'm still up with my 4yo
> right now. It's 9:19 pm. We'll probably go to bed soon because
> both getting tired. Is your 4yo able to sleep as late as she wantsprobably
> in the morning? The crankiness may be from being woken before she's
> ready. Or it could just be normal crankiness after a long day.
>
> I think with that many children in that age range, you will
> need to get rid of your idea of getting "me" time the way you areduring
> thinking. Find ways to get that time while they are around or
> the day or just decide to let it go for now with the understanding[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> that as they get older you will have more time for yourself (and
> will probably lament that you don't have as much kid time anymore).
>
> Alysia
>
Kim Musolff
***I feel slightly resentful that I am missing MY
o'clock. Before I fully embraced an unschoolin/worldschooling
thinking, I too felt that I was being robbed of "MY time". Funny
enough, when I let THAT go, I started looking forward to my family
life in the "late hours".***
I, too, am new to unschooling and have this problem with my 4 & 6 yo. I
feel like I need MY time. But Mel's comments made me think of this: My
6-month old doesnt' have a bedtime (neither did the older kids when they
were babies.) It wasn't until about 2 that I felt the need to enforce a
bedtime, because I needed my own time to unwind. But when they were babies,
I actually loved the special late family times together. Some of our best
memories of our babies are at night when we just hung out being silly,
babbling, playing peek-a-boo, etc.
Now I wonder why that had to end! For some reason, I felt the need to
separate myself from the kids at night, so I could unwind. I still feel
this way a little. (We're slowly coming out of the "bedtime" control). So
far, it seems like when I ease up on control, I seem to want to spend more
time with the kids, and don't need that bedtime break as much.
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> time.... is this not right?I have a four year old too who doesn't go to bed until around ten
>
>
o'clock. Before I fully embraced an unschoolin/worldschooling
thinking, I too felt that I was being robbed of "MY time". Funny
enough, when I let THAT go, I started looking forward to my family
life in the "late hours".***
I, too, am new to unschooling and have this problem with my 4 & 6 yo. I
feel like I need MY time. But Mel's comments made me think of this: My
6-month old doesnt' have a bedtime (neither did the older kids when they
were babies.) It wasn't until about 2 that I felt the need to enforce a
bedtime, because I needed my own time to unwind. But when they were babies,
I actually loved the special late family times together. Some of our best
memories of our babies are at night when we just hung out being silly,
babbling, playing peek-a-boo, etc.
Now I wonder why that had to end! For some reason, I felt the need to
separate myself from the kids at night, so I could unwind. I still feel
this way a little. (We're slowly coming out of the "bedtime" control). So
far, it seems like when I ease up on control, I seem to want to spend more
time with the kids, and don't need that bedtime break as much.
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim Musolff
***We have an evening routine now that works for us, and the girls let us
know when they're tired, which is usually around 10. ***
I'm curious what sort of bedtime routine you have. Being so new to this,
I'm having a hard time seeing which of my "routines" are being controlling,
and which are helpful.
Thanks,
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
know when they're tired, which is usually around 10. ***
I'm curious what sort of bedtime routine you have. Being so new to this,
I'm having a hard time seeing which of my "routines" are being controlling,
and which are helpful.
Thanks,
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I can remember very clearly lying in bed with Simon when he was little and resenting the hell out of David getting to stay up and do things on his own. I can remember being resentful of how little time we were going to get together, David and I, given that I was stuck in bed with Simon waiting for him to fall asleep. I used to do kegel exercises to stay awake and worked on learning how to wink my left eye which I couldn't do. But half the time I'd fall asleep anyhow and it made me furious when I'd wake up and discovered that I'd slept through all of "my time". The concept of "my time" was an awful burden. It's like having a time limit on video game access, I had to have it, it was "my time". The rest of my day was other people's but this little bit in the evening, all mine (rubbing hands and cackling). Once I got rid of the idea, once we started to relax about bedtimes, I had much less need to have some sort of time all my own. I can see other things as
being part of my time. Sitting and knitting, chatting to David while we cook together, having that 20 minutes in the morning before everyone else is out of bed.
It also got rid of the them versus me mentality, or at least helped to get rid of it more. I don't see a "my time" versus "their time" dichotomy so much anymore. There are some mornings when I miss my 20 minutes where I have to reframe my vision of how my morning was going to go, but that is usually the worst that it gets. Sometimes now they stay up later than I do. The only constraint is not waking other people. If they get too loud they need to go to bed, or figure out something else that they can do quietly.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
being part of my time. Sitting and knitting, chatting to David while we cook together, having that 20 minutes in the morning before everyone else is out of bed.
It also got rid of the them versus me mentality, or at least helped to get rid of it more. I don't see a "my time" versus "their time" dichotomy so much anymore. There are some mornings when I miss my 20 minutes where I have to reframe my vision of how my morning was going to go, but that is usually the worst that it gets. Sometimes now they stay up later than I do. The only constraint is not waking other people. If they get too loud they need to go to bed, or figure out something else that they can do quietly.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~`having that 20 minutes in the morning before everyone else is out of
bed.~~
That's when we get "our time" without interruptions (mostly anyway).
Evening is a swirl of activity but I don't need as much sleep as the
kids so dh and I will snatch some time for ourselves on mornings when
there isn't anything else going on.
It's usually tea on the deck together, talking and watching the birds
or discussing garden plans. Morning is very peaceful and a great time
to catch up and connect....it's especially sweet as sleepy-eyed,
waking-up children start to emerge and join us for tea and cuddles.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
bed.~~
That's when we get "our time" without interruptions (mostly anyway).
Evening is a swirl of activity but I don't need as much sleep as the
kids so dh and I will snatch some time for ourselves on mornings when
there isn't anything else going on.
It's usually tea on the deck together, talking and watching the birds
or discussing garden plans. Morning is very peaceful and a great time
to catch up and connect....it's especially sweet as sleepy-eyed,
waking-up children start to emerge and join us for tea and cuddles.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I'm curious what sort of bedtime routine you have. Being so new to this,
I'm having a hard time seeing which of my "routines" are being controlling,
and which are helpful.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
With my 2 year old this is what we do. At around 10:00PM when daddy goes to bed we go upstairs and brush our teeth than I go into my ds's room and I can watch the shows I dvr'd in his tv. She will either play in her room or in the room with me and when she is ready she jumps on my lap and nurses to sleep.
THis can take 15minutes or 2 hours. Because I am doing something I want it does not drive me crazy if it is taking long. I also play with her on the floor while watching my shows a lot or we read books.
Alex Polikowsky
www.polykow.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm having a hard time seeing which of my "routines" are being controlling,
and which are helpful.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
With my 2 year old this is what we do. At around 10:00PM when daddy goes to bed we go upstairs and brush our teeth than I go into my ds's room and I can watch the shows I dvr'd in his tv. She will either play in her room or in the room with me and when she is ready she jumps on my lap and nurses to sleep.
THis can take 15minutes or 2 hours. Because I am doing something I want it does not drive me crazy if it is taking long. I also play with her on the floor while watching my shows a lot or we read books.
Alex Polikowsky
www.polykow.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I wanted to add the I have just a little table lamp on so lights are dimmed out in the room I am in. In her roms lighs are bright so if she is not sleepy and wants to play she can see her things.
I also either keep the tv low or use headphones.
A
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
I'm curious what sort of bedtime routine you have. Being so new to this,
I'm having a hard time seeing which of my "routines" are being controlling,
and which are helpful.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
With my 2 year old this is what we do. At around 10:00PM when daddy goes to bed we go upstairs and brush our teeth than I go into my ds's room and I can watch the shows I dvr'd in his tv. She will either play in her room or in the room with me and when she is ready she jumps on my lap and nurses to sleep.
THis can take 15minutes or 2 hours. Because I am doing something I want it does not drive me crazy if it is taking long. I also play with her on the floor while watching my shows a lot or we read books.
Alex Polikowsky
www.polykow.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I also either keep the tv low or use headphones.
A
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
I'm curious what sort of bedtime routine you have. Being so new to this,
I'm having a hard time seeing which of my "routines" are being controlling,
and which are helpful.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
With my 2 year old this is what we do. At around 10:00PM when daddy goes to bed we go upstairs and brush our teeth than I go into my ds's room and I can watch the shows I dvr'd in his tv. She will either play in her room or in the room with me and when she is ready she jumps on my lap and nurses to sleep.
THis can take 15minutes or 2 hours. Because I am doing something I want it does not drive me crazy if it is taking long. I also play with her on the floor while watching my shows a lot or we read books.
Alex Polikowsky
www.polykow.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brad Holcomb
We've never had scheduled bedtimes in our home. We just sleep when we get
tired. DS is now 3. I travel a lot for my job, Mon-Thurs a lot of weeks.
So the nights when I'm not home, DW and DS are usually in bed by around 9pm.
We all cosleep, always have. DS has never had his own bed/bedroom/nursery.
One of them indicates they're sleepy, and they start winding down, brushing
teeth, etc., and heading toward bed. If I'm traveling that week, I get home
on Thurs and am up 'til at least midnight, DS usually stays up w/ me, and
around 11pm I'm done w/ chores/playing and ready to wind down. I'll plop in
front of the TiVo to watch motorcycle racing from the past few days, and he
cuddles up with me. Sometimes he watches with me, other times we also read
a book or he watches one of his movies on his little media player.
Fri, Sat, and Sun nights vary. I'm often a night-owl (up 'til 1 or 2 am),
and often DS will go to bed with his mom, but then get up later and come
hang out with me for a bit. And I'm the first one out of bed in the morning
95% of the time (by 7am or so), followed by DS about an hour later. Then
we'll get some breakfast going, and DW gets up last. On days when I'm out
of town, DS is up first about 70% of the time, and he'll play for a while
(with the dog, or whatever) before waking up his mom (usually with caresses,
but sometimes by jumping on the bed) saying "Sun up. Mommy wake up. Boy
want eat."
Nap times vary. DS will sometimes fall asleep in odd positions like leaning
on the couch playing with a toy. A few weeks ago we were all in the
kitchen. He was sitting on a bar stool eating something, eyes heavy, and
suddenly I noticed that he was completely asleep, sitting up, balanced on
the stool. I took a picture, then carried him to the couch and he never
stirred. I like a mid-day nap, as does DW, so he'll sometimes nap with one
of us. He almost always falls asleep in the carseat, so even if it was for
only 10 minutes he usually won't nap later that day after a carseat nap
during errands. And if we've stayed home that day, he'll either nap for
30-45 mins sometime between 3-6pm, OR he just falls asleep in the living
room (often on the couch) 9pm (if no nap that day) and we carry him to bed.
We've always trusted DS to sleep when he wants, since birth. He nursed to
sleep almost exclusively 'til he was nearly 3, whether for nap or nighttime.
I can remember only a few times when DS wanted to stay up later than mom and
dad.
He has the occasional "cranky" morning due to inadequate sleep, but it's
pretty rare, plus it's self-resolving. If he stayed up too late with me,
and got up too early, he'll usually nap before lunch and then be rested and
fine after that. If we're up with an alarm clock (usually only one day a
week) because of a planned activity, it usually involves a car trip so he
just sleeps in the car. Sleep is pretty much a non-issue in our house--just
something we do, like eating, when we want.
--
Brad in Boulder, CO
http://holcombs.org
tired. DS is now 3. I travel a lot for my job, Mon-Thurs a lot of weeks.
So the nights when I'm not home, DW and DS are usually in bed by around 9pm.
We all cosleep, always have. DS has never had his own bed/bedroom/nursery.
One of them indicates they're sleepy, and they start winding down, brushing
teeth, etc., and heading toward bed. If I'm traveling that week, I get home
on Thurs and am up 'til at least midnight, DS usually stays up w/ me, and
around 11pm I'm done w/ chores/playing and ready to wind down. I'll plop in
front of the TiVo to watch motorcycle racing from the past few days, and he
cuddles up with me. Sometimes he watches with me, other times we also read
a book or he watches one of his movies on his little media player.
Fri, Sat, and Sun nights vary. I'm often a night-owl (up 'til 1 or 2 am),
and often DS will go to bed with his mom, but then get up later and come
hang out with me for a bit. And I'm the first one out of bed in the morning
95% of the time (by 7am or so), followed by DS about an hour later. Then
we'll get some breakfast going, and DW gets up last. On days when I'm out
of town, DS is up first about 70% of the time, and he'll play for a while
(with the dog, or whatever) before waking up his mom (usually with caresses,
but sometimes by jumping on the bed) saying "Sun up. Mommy wake up. Boy
want eat."
Nap times vary. DS will sometimes fall asleep in odd positions like leaning
on the couch playing with a toy. A few weeks ago we were all in the
kitchen. He was sitting on a bar stool eating something, eyes heavy, and
suddenly I noticed that he was completely asleep, sitting up, balanced on
the stool. I took a picture, then carried him to the couch and he never
stirred. I like a mid-day nap, as does DW, so he'll sometimes nap with one
of us. He almost always falls asleep in the carseat, so even if it was for
only 10 minutes he usually won't nap later that day after a carseat nap
during errands. And if we've stayed home that day, he'll either nap for
30-45 mins sometime between 3-6pm, OR he just falls asleep in the living
room (often on the couch) 9pm (if no nap that day) and we carry him to bed.
We've always trusted DS to sleep when he wants, since birth. He nursed to
sleep almost exclusively 'til he was nearly 3, whether for nap or nighttime.
I can remember only a few times when DS wanted to stay up later than mom and
dad.
He has the occasional "cranky" morning due to inadequate sleep, but it's
pretty rare, plus it's self-resolving. If he stayed up too late with me,
and got up too early, he'll usually nap before lunch and then be rested and
fine after that. If we're up with an alarm clock (usually only one day a
week) because of a planned activity, it usually involves a car trip so he
just sleeps in the car. Sleep is pretty much a non-issue in our house--just
something we do, like eating, when we want.
--
Brad in Boulder, CO
http://holcombs.org
Jodi Bezzola
~~I'm curious what sort of bedtime routine you have. Being so new to this,
I'm having a hard time seeing which of my "routines" are being controlling,
and which are helpful.~~
I forget how olds the original poster's kids are - our twin girls are 3 1/2.
Our 'routine' is pretty loose, but the framework is there nonetheless. Mostly the evening is hanging out/playing/watching a movie/snacking (they often specifically ask to watch "hap a moobie" <g>). I keep snacks out and available (just a continuation of the monkey trays we have going most of the day) which lessens the chance of them asking for food once they get into bed. When we threw all rules and control out the window we had about a month of them saying "I need something" after they were all tucked in...and asking about 12 times before they finally stayed in bed. Now that doesn't happen, and I suspect it's because they know they can have whatever they want whenever they want, so they're completely relaxed about it. On occasion one of them has asked for something when they can barely keep their eyes open and I've asked if it can wait until morning, and usually the answer is yes.
We shut the house down as if we are all going to bed, this has been a big one for us. We have little lights around the top of the ceiling in the living room (xmas lights) that we turn on that leave just enough light to see but not enough for it to be stimulating. All the other lights are off except the bathroom night lights and their lamp and night light in their bedroom.
They had lots of say recently in picking out their bed, picking out sheets for it, choosing where in their rooms they want it to be, etc., which I think really helps them enjoy their bedroom and being in bed. They chose a bed they had room to sleep in together. I make suggestions when I see them rubbing their eyes or looking really tired that we snuggle in bed with some books. Most times they think that's a good idea, and sometimes they choose to watch a little of their favourite something that's been recorded and then we crawl in. Dh or I lie down with them and they're usually out in under 5 minutes.
I suggest a bath earlier in the evening because I know they love playing in the tub. Every second/third night they say yes, sometimes alone, sometimes together. I just hand them their toothbrushes with toothpaste on them in the tub and they brush. I suggest teeth brushing every morning/every evening and sometimes they go for it and sometimes they don't.
On occasion one will want to sleep in our bed and the answer is always yes, then we just move them into their own bed after they fall asleep.
Just know that once you relax rules and control it will perhaps look a little chaotic, but once they trust they will get their needs met and what they want is important to you they will relax into that. At least mine did.
Hope some of that helps. Again, this is what worked for *our* family, and none of it may apply to you. Take what you like and leave the rest!
Jodi
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm having a hard time seeing which of my "routines" are being controlling,
and which are helpful.~~
I forget how olds the original poster's kids are - our twin girls are 3 1/2.
Our 'routine' is pretty loose, but the framework is there nonetheless. Mostly the evening is hanging out/playing/watching a movie/snacking (they often specifically ask to watch "hap a moobie" <g>). I keep snacks out and available (just a continuation of the monkey trays we have going most of the day) which lessens the chance of them asking for food once they get into bed. When we threw all rules and control out the window we had about a month of them saying "I need something" after they were all tucked in...and asking about 12 times before they finally stayed in bed. Now that doesn't happen, and I suspect it's because they know they can have whatever they want whenever they want, so they're completely relaxed about it. On occasion one of them has asked for something when they can barely keep their eyes open and I've asked if it can wait until morning, and usually the answer is yes.
We shut the house down as if we are all going to bed, this has been a big one for us. We have little lights around the top of the ceiling in the living room (xmas lights) that we turn on that leave just enough light to see but not enough for it to be stimulating. All the other lights are off except the bathroom night lights and their lamp and night light in their bedroom.
They had lots of say recently in picking out their bed, picking out sheets for it, choosing where in their rooms they want it to be, etc., which I think really helps them enjoy their bedroom and being in bed. They chose a bed they had room to sleep in together. I make suggestions when I see them rubbing their eyes or looking really tired that we snuggle in bed with some books. Most times they think that's a good idea, and sometimes they choose to watch a little of their favourite something that's been recorded and then we crawl in. Dh or I lie down with them and they're usually out in under 5 minutes.
I suggest a bath earlier in the evening because I know they love playing in the tub. Every second/third night they say yes, sometimes alone, sometimes together. I just hand them their toothbrushes with toothpaste on them in the tub and they brush. I suggest teeth brushing every morning/every evening and sometimes they go for it and sometimes they don't.
On occasion one will want to sleep in our bed and the answer is always yes, then we just move them into their own bed after they fall asleep.
Just know that once you relax rules and control it will perhaps look a little chaotic, but once they trust they will get their needs met and what they want is important to you they will relax into that. At least mine did.
Hope some of that helps. Again, this is what worked for *our* family, and none of it may apply to you. Take what you like and leave the rest!
Jodi
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alohabun
--- In [email protected], "keetry" <keetry@...>
wrote:
you are > thinking. Find ways to get that time while they are around
or during > the day or just decide to let it go for now with the
understanding > that as they get older you will have more time for
yourself (and > will probably lament that you don't have as much kid
time anymore).
so ingrained in our society that we must have time to ourselves in
order to be a better mother/parent. When in fact, there are ways to
find time to think or do something that makes you feel good and
still be with kids. Even right after birth, the pressure is on to
force independence and leave the kids and "do something for
yourself." (Forget about being a nuturing, present mother.) Try to
find a way to make it work for everyone. And the older they get,
the easier it is and the more experience you have to make it work.
Things do seem long when you are in them, but remember, children
grow and change and so do you and your circumstance. Try to find
acceptance and peace and joy with where you are in your stage of
life. My dental hygenist was cleaning my teeth and said how happy
she was that her children were grown now as she didn't realize how
much work it had been to be a mom. She said she'd never want to
have more kids. I replied how wonderful life is that we can all be
grateful for whatever stage in life we are in, for I couldn't
imagine not having young children and in fact wished I had more.
Laurie
wrote:
>> I think with that many children in that age range, you willprobably > need to get rid of your idea of getting "me" time the way
you are > thinking. Find ways to get that time while they are around
or during > the day or just decide to let it go for now with the
understanding > that as they get older you will have more time for
yourself (and > will probably lament that you don't have as much kid
time anymore).
>That is exactly how I feel about "me time" too. It is unfortunately
> Alysia
>
so ingrained in our society that we must have time to ourselves in
order to be a better mother/parent. When in fact, there are ways to
find time to think or do something that makes you feel good and
still be with kids. Even right after birth, the pressure is on to
force independence and leave the kids and "do something for
yourself." (Forget about being a nuturing, present mother.) Try to
find a way to make it work for everyone. And the older they get,
the easier it is and the more experience you have to make it work.
Things do seem long when you are in them, but remember, children
grow and change and so do you and your circumstance. Try to find
acceptance and peace and joy with where you are in your stage of
life. My dental hygenist was cleaning my teeth and said how happy
she was that her children were grown now as she didn't realize how
much work it had been to be a mom. She said she'd never want to
have more kids. I replied how wonderful life is that we can all be
grateful for whatever stage in life we are in, for I couldn't
imagine not having young children and in fact wished I had more.
Laurie
Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 25, 2008, at 7:29 AM, alohabun wrote:
- we need time to process all the constant input, to integrate it.
But, that can happen in random free moments or while doing things like
washing dishes or taking a shower. It can happen when a child is with
us. We don't have to be totally ALONE, much less alone for very long.
I wrote about this just a few weeks ago on this list -- here's a
shortened version:
mine are 17, 20, and 23.
Learn to take 1-minute mental vacations. Go into the bathroom, shut
the door and your eyes, visualize yourself somewhere peaceful and
quiet. Don't expect more than 60 seconds or you'll be frustrated and
disappointed instead of calmed. These mini-vacations can make a
gigantic difference.
Recognize your worth as a mother and partner so that doing a good job
in those roles gives you self-satisfaction. Pay more attention and
make mental notes when you "achieve" things like connecting with a
child, supporting a child, etc. Make eye contact and smile a lot.
THOSE are the moments that really refresh and reinvigorate you.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> That is exactly how I feel about "me time" too. It is unfortunatelyWe do need times for our brains to sort of settle down once in a while
> so ingrained in our society that we must have time to ourselves in
> order to be a better mother/parent.
- we need time to process all the constant input, to integrate it.
But, that can happen in random free moments or while doing things like
washing dishes or taking a shower. It can happen when a child is with
us. We don't have to be totally ALONE, much less alone for very long.
I wrote about this just a few weeks ago on this list -- here's a
shortened version:
>You don't get much when your kids are young. I get a LOT these days -
>
> How do you realistically take time out for peace and quiet?
mine are 17, 20, and 23.
Learn to take 1-minute mental vacations. Go into the bathroom, shut
the door and your eyes, visualize yourself somewhere peaceful and
quiet. Don't expect more than 60 seconds or you'll be frustrated and
disappointed instead of calmed. These mini-vacations can make a
gigantic difference.
Recognize your worth as a mother and partner so that doing a good job
in those roles gives you self-satisfaction. Pay more attention and
make mental notes when you "achieve" things like connecting with a
child, supporting a child, etc. Make eye contact and smile a lot.
THOSE are the moments that really refresh and reinvigorate you.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
--- In [email protected], "alohabun" <alohabun@...>
wrote:
pressuring new parents to get out and do things for themselves and/or
as a couple and leave the baby/children, it would be nice if society
as a whole would support parents in being with their children. It's
hard to let go of the idea of "me time" when you're being hit with it
from every angle and being told you can't possibly be the best parent
you could be if you aren't getting it.
I have friends who say they are better mothers because they get a
break from their kids when they send them to daycare/preschool. If
they didn't have that time, they'd be cranky, mean mommies. I don't
know if that's true because I'm not them. I do know that sometimes I
can get cranky and mean if I have an expectation that's not being met.
Usually, as soon as I can change my perspective and thinking and let
go of the expectation, I'm not so cranky and mean anymore. I don't
think those friends of mine have ever tried that. When I bring up
something like that they look at me like I'm speaking a foreign
language or something. They just immediately go for what they've
always known, which is to separate themselves from their kids.
I think it's not really about personal time. It's about wanting to
feel good, be happy. So, instead of thinking I have to have "me time"
to do that, I want to find ways to feel good and be happy with my kids.
Alysia
wrote:
>This subject made me think of this same thing last night. Rather than
> That is exactly how I feel about "me time" too. It is unfortunately
> so ingrained in our society that we must have time to ourselves in
> order to be a better mother/parent. When in fact, there are ways to
> find time to think or do something that makes you feel good and
> still be with kids. Even right after birth, the pressure is on to
> force independence and leave the kids and "do something for
> yourself." (Forget about being a nuturing, present mother.)
pressuring new parents to get out and do things for themselves and/or
as a couple and leave the baby/children, it would be nice if society
as a whole would support parents in being with their children. It's
hard to let go of the idea of "me time" when you're being hit with it
from every angle and being told you can't possibly be the best parent
you could be if you aren't getting it.
I have friends who say they are better mothers because they get a
break from their kids when they send them to daycare/preschool. If
they didn't have that time, they'd be cranky, mean mommies. I don't
know if that's true because I'm not them. I do know that sometimes I
can get cranky and mean if I have an expectation that's not being met.
Usually, as soon as I can change my perspective and thinking and let
go of the expectation, I'm not so cranky and mean anymore. I don't
think those friends of mine have ever tried that. When I bring up
something like that they look at me like I'm speaking a foreign
language or something. They just immediately go for what they've
always known, which is to separate themselves from their kids.
I think it's not really about personal time. It's about wanting to
feel good, be happy. So, instead of thinking I have to have "me time"
to do that, I want to find ways to feel good and be happy with my kids.
Alysia
petra_norr
William (15mths) has now started "fighting" bedtimes. I too like "me
time" but I'm starting to think that the time I'm actually
getting "alone" with df is not worth fretting over william for an
hour or more to get him to sleep. I have read through sandra dodds
website page on sleep and everything she says makes sense to me...
but
i still feel scared about letting go of that last bit of control over
my life. I have made my mind up now, at last, after thinking about it
for too long. From tomorrow we are not going to have "bedtimes"
anymore.
Df often works late and he has said that he doesnt mind William being
awake late because he then gets to see his son more than a few hours
on the weekend.
I didnt come into motherhood or family life from the "un - side" of
things. in fact i remember quoting supernanny - even gina ford
*cringe*
I am glad i found this way of living and that my simple idea of
homeschooling Wiliam for the first few years has turned into a whole
new life philosophy as corny as that sounds ;)
I feel people wanting to say things to me already about co - sleeping
and i know i probably will tip the scales and they WILL say something
about our "household not having bedtimes anymore"...
and there is another plus side to this: i get a lie in as william
will consequently sleep longer in the morning! ;)
time" but I'm starting to think that the time I'm actually
getting "alone" with df is not worth fretting over william for an
hour or more to get him to sleep. I have read through sandra dodds
website page on sleep and everything she says makes sense to me...
but
i still feel scared about letting go of that last bit of control over
my life. I have made my mind up now, at last, after thinking about it
for too long. From tomorrow we are not going to have "bedtimes"
anymore.
Df often works late and he has said that he doesnt mind William being
awake late because he then gets to see his son more than a few hours
on the weekend.
I didnt come into motherhood or family life from the "un - side" of
things. in fact i remember quoting supernanny - even gina ford
*cringe*
I am glad i found this way of living and that my simple idea of
homeschooling Wiliam for the first few years has turned into a whole
new life philosophy as corny as that sounds ;)
I feel people wanting to say things to me already about co - sleeping
and i know i probably will tip the scales and they WILL say something
about our "household not having bedtimes anymore"...
and there is another plus side to this: i get a lie in as william
will consequently sleep longer in the morning! ;)
--- In [email protected], "keetry" <keetry@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "alohabun" <alohabun@>
> wrote:
> >
> > That is exactly how I feel about "me time" too. It is
unfortunately
> > so ingrained in our society that we must have time to ourselves
in
> > order to be a better mother/parent. When in fact, there are ways
to
> > find time to think or do something that makes you feel good and
> > still be with kids. Even right after birth, the pressure is on
to
> > force independence and leave the kids and "do something for
> > yourself." (Forget about being a nuturing, present mother.)
>
> This subject made me think of this same thing last night. Rather
than
> pressuring new parents to get out and do things for themselves
and/or
> as a couple and leave the baby/children, it would be nice if
society
> as a whole would support parents in being with their children. It's
> hard to let go of the idea of "me time" when you're being hit with
it
> from every angle and being told you can't possibly be the best
parent
> you could be if you aren't getting it.
>
> I have friends who say they are better mothers because they get a
> break from their kids when they send them to daycare/preschool. If
> they didn't have that time, they'd be cranky, mean mommies. I don't
> know if that's true because I'm not them. I do know that sometimes
I
> can get cranky and mean if I have an expectation that's not being
met.
> Usually, as soon as I can change my perspective and thinking and
let
> go of the expectation, I'm not so cranky and mean anymore. I don't
> think those friends of mine have ever tried that. When I bring up
> something like that they look at me like I'm speaking a foreign
> language or something. They just immediately go for what they've
> always known, which is to separate themselves from their kids.
>
> I think it's not really about personal time. It's about wanting to
> feel good, be happy. So, instead of thinking I have to have "me
time"
> to do that, I want to find ways to feel good and be happy with my
kids.
>
> Alysia
>
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Kendrah Nilsestuen
<carebear-79@...> wrote:
need parents who can adjust to *their* routines. It all depends on
the individual.
Mo has a variable routine. Her sleep cycle periodically shifts by a
couple hours - so sometimes she goes to bed around 8 and then will
all of a sudden shift to going to bed at 10, and her wake-up times
shift accordingly. There doesn't seem to be any set pattern to
*when* her cycle shifts, but each phase lasts a month or two. It
usually takes me a couple weeks to adjust - the first week is mostly
spent wondering if she's actually shifted again or is it just a
couple days out-of-kilter? and more recently this has become
complicated by *my* need to go to bed so that I can get up for work.
Mo's also not the sort of kid who "settles down" to sleep. If
anything, she gears up a notch in the evenings - from around 630 -
until she crashes. She's not cranky, its not an overtired thing,
more a natural rhythm. We call it "That time of day". Its part of
her routine.
So our "bedtime" routine involves getting out of Morgan's way a
whole lot. Mostly in pretty physical ways! but also in terms of
helping her find solutions so that she can play and play and play
without driving the rest of us crazy.
---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
<carebear-79@...> wrote:
>> Our routine certainly isn't rigid, but we do have one, andactually
> our kids seem to appreciate the consistency it provides.Some kids do really well with routines generated by parents. Others
need parents who can adjust to *their* routines. It all depends on
the individual.
Mo has a variable routine. Her sleep cycle periodically shifts by a
couple hours - so sometimes she goes to bed around 8 and then will
all of a sudden shift to going to bed at 10, and her wake-up times
shift accordingly. There doesn't seem to be any set pattern to
*when* her cycle shifts, but each phase lasts a month or two. It
usually takes me a couple weeks to adjust - the first week is mostly
spent wondering if she's actually shifted again or is it just a
couple days out-of-kilter? and more recently this has become
complicated by *my* need to go to bed so that I can get up for work.
Mo's also not the sort of kid who "settles down" to sleep. If
anything, she gears up a notch in the evenings - from around 630 -
until she crashes. She's not cranky, its not an overtired thing,
more a natural rhythm. We call it "That time of day". Its part of
her routine.
So our "bedtime" routine involves getting out of Morgan's way a
whole lot. Mostly in pretty physical ways! but also in terms of
helping her find solutions so that she can play and play and play
without driving the rest of us crazy.
---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
Schuyler
=====================
but
i still feel scared about letting go of that last bit of control over
my life.
=========
But you aren't letting go of control over your life, it is the dominion over your son's choices that you will be relaxing. And you can control and put to bed any number of other things. You can put the dishes to bed, you can weed the heck out of your garden, you can exert dominance over the dog or the cat, although that is harder. You can train the dog and the cat. You can get fish and try experiments with them to see if they will swim through hoops to get to food http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQKZOaB6cY&feature=related. Or to swim in synchrony http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3392949015597074276
There are so many things you can control that won't affect your relationship with your son.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
but
i still feel scared about letting go of that last bit of control over
my life.
=========
But you aren't letting go of control over your life, it is the dominion over your son's choices that you will be relaxing. And you can control and put to bed any number of other things. You can put the dishes to bed, you can weed the heck out of your garden, you can exert dominance over the dog or the cat, although that is harder. You can train the dog and the cat. You can get fish and try experiments with them to see if they will swim through hoops to get to food http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQKZOaB6cY&feature=related. Or to swim in synchrony http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3392949015597074276
There are so many things you can control that won't affect your relationship with your son.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
petra_norr
:o)
i know that in my heart but its my conditioned brain which wont let
go of that thought! but my heart wins ;o)(we havent got fish - might
have to get some ...)
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
can control and put to bed any number of other things. You can put
the dishes to bed, you can weed the heck out of your garden, you can
exert dominance over the dog or the cat, although that is harder. You
can train the dog and the cat. You can get fish and try experiments
with them to see if they will swim through hoops to get to food
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQKZOaB6cY&feature=related. Or to
swim in synchrony http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-
3392949015597074276
i know that in my heart but its my conditioned brain which wont let
go of that thought! but my heart wins ;o)(we havent got fish - might
have to get some ...)
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
wrote:
>over
> =====================
> but
> i still feel scared about letting go of that last bit of control
> my life.dominion over your son's choices that you will be relaxing. And you
>
> =========
>
> But you aren't letting go of control over your life, it is the
can control and put to bed any number of other things. You can put
the dishes to bed, you can weed the heck out of your garden, you can
exert dominance over the dog or the cat, although that is harder. You
can train the dog and the cat. You can get fish and try experiments
with them to see if they will swim through hoops to get to food
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQKZOaB6cY&feature=related. Or to
swim in synchrony http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-
3392949015597074276
>relationship with your son.
>
> There are so many things you can control that won't affect your
>
> Schuyler
> www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: julie <brihanna@...>
I am relatively new to the unschooling thought process.. and through
this group, have started reading Unconditional Parenting, I see that
many of what is said in this conversation is of value to me....
=-=-=-
Cool.
-===-=-=-
But a specific question.... how do I get my 4 year old to go to sleep?
If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and the lights,
etc. How can I get her to go to bed?
-=-=-=-=-
Why do you need her to go to bed? Why is it important to *you* that she
sleeps when she isn't tired?
What's your point?
-=-=-=-
I have been trying to let her
have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bed with
her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 at night,
and is cranky the next day.
-=-=-=-
May she wake when she's rested? Or are you waking her before she's
finished sleeping?
-=-=-=-=-
Any suggestions would be helpful. I have
4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself.
-=-=-=-=-
Why? Why do you feel this need? Because society says you should? And
why must it be at night?
-=-=-==-
With her staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am
missing MY
time.... is this not right?
-=-=-=-=
Well, you CHOSE to have children. Did you think children would be like
dolls? Where you could lay them down and forget about them until you
were ready to play again?
They're not like that. Momhood is a 24/7 kind of thang. The good
news---and the bad news---is that they outgrow you and eventually don't
need you at all. <g>
Please enjoy this time you have with them. It's gone so quickly.
It really is about accepting where you---and they---are NOW and making
the most of your time together.
You can choose to fight with her every night---or you can choose to
enjoy the precious time you *get* to spend at night together. What's
the rush? Seriously?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: julie <brihanna@...>
I am relatively new to the unschooling thought process.. and through
this group, have started reading Unconditional Parenting, I see that
many of what is said in this conversation is of value to me....
=-=-=-
Cool.
-===-=-=-
But a specific question.... how do I get my 4 year old to go to sleep?
If I don't threaten, and I don't take away the music and the lights,
etc. How can I get her to go to bed?
-=-=-=-=-
Why do you need her to go to bed? Why is it important to *you* that she
sleeps when she isn't tired?
What's your point?
-=-=-=-
I have been trying to let her
have some leeway into where she sleeps, or what she brings to bed with
her, but.. am stumped. She is not getting to bed until 10 at night,
and is cranky the next day.
-=-=-=-
May she wake when she's rested? Or are you waking her before she's
finished sleeping?
-=-=-=-=-
Any suggestions would be helpful. I have
4 children, 2-18, and need to have some down time for myself.
-=-=-=-=-
Why? Why do you feel this need? Because society says you should? And
why must it be at night?
-=-=-==-
With her staying awake all eve, I feel slightly resentful that I am
missing MY
time.... is this not right?
-=-=-=-=
Well, you CHOSE to have children. Did you think children would be like
dolls? Where you could lay them down and forget about them until you
were ready to play again?
They're not like that. Momhood is a 24/7 kind of thang. The good
news---and the bad news---is that they outgrow you and eventually don't
need you at all. <g>
Please enjoy this time you have with them. It's gone so quickly.
It really is about accepting where you---and they---are NOW and making
the most of your time together.
You can choose to fight with her every night---or you can choose to
enjoy the precious time you *get* to spend at night together. What's
the rush? Seriously?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
Reading this makes me realize how far I've come in the way I think
about
'bedtime' and 'my time'.
If you read back in the archives under bedtimes, you'll find lots and
lots to
address your concerns. Warning: you might not love what you read on
first read
- I didn't!
-=-=-=-=
Yeah---I was going to say, Go back and read Jodi's early posts! <G>
You've come a L-O-N-G way, baby! <g>
-=-=-=-=-
There are lots of things you can do to 'set the mood', as in shut
down the
house as if everyone is going to bed, which really helped us make the
transition, but every kid is so different, and it's about giving them
the
freedom to learn when they're tired, and taking the power struggle out
of going
to bed/sleep. We thought what we were doing was working, and it pretty
much was
until they decided they wanted to decide for themselves, then bedtimes
became
very intense and unpleasant. Giving up control has allowed it to be
peaceful
again.
-=-=-=-=-
Right---a peaceful late night is better than a stressful early
one---especially when it ends up about the same amount of time!
-=-=-=-=-
The first while we did this we didn't just start saying yes more
(which is
what the wise ones recommend), we threw out all rules and restrictions
and as a
result there was *huge* party time around here for awhile with bedtimes
between
midnight and 1 for our 3 year old twins.
-=-=-
Right---just take it one night at a time and don't rush it. Don't push
the "bedtime" or "sleep". Just pave the way for a restful couple of
hours. Sleep will come.
-=-=-=-=-
And then they settled out. We have an evening routine now that works
for us,
and the girls let us know when they're tired, which is usually around
10. What
I love is that they don't have to push through and pretend they're
*not* tired
just to stay up later than they would be 'allowed' to if we had rules.
-=-=-=-=-
Right. If they know they can go to sleep when they are tired, they
*will*. The body needs sleep and will grab it when it's time---UNLESS
it is forced to ignore its own signals.
-=-=-=-==-
Also, when I honour what they're telling me, allowing them to go to
sleep when
their little bodies are tired and not some preordained time so I can
get 'my
time', the 'my time' just sort of magically happens. It's like the
time
available to me expands or something, weird, but real.
-=-=-=-
Magic---yep! <G>
-=-=-=-=-
I hope this helps a little, and I really encourage you to peruse the
archives!
-=-=-=-
I second that. You can look for Jodi's first posts or even do a search
for bedtimes. There's a LOT there!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Jodi Bezzola <jodibezzola@...>
Reading this makes me realize how far I've come in the way I think
about
'bedtime' and 'my time'.
If you read back in the archives under bedtimes, you'll find lots and
lots to
address your concerns. Warning: you might not love what you read on
first read
- I didn't!
-=-=-=-=
Yeah---I was going to say, Go back and read Jodi's early posts! <G>
You've come a L-O-N-G way, baby! <g>
-=-=-=-=-
There are lots of things you can do to 'set the mood', as in shut
down the
house as if everyone is going to bed, which really helped us make the
transition, but every kid is so different, and it's about giving them
the
freedom to learn when they're tired, and taking the power struggle out
of going
to bed/sleep. We thought what we were doing was working, and it pretty
much was
until they decided they wanted to decide for themselves, then bedtimes
became
very intense and unpleasant. Giving up control has allowed it to be
peaceful
again.
-=-=-=-=-
Right---a peaceful late night is better than a stressful early
one---especially when it ends up about the same amount of time!
-=-=-=-=-
The first while we did this we didn't just start saying yes more
(which is
what the wise ones recommend), we threw out all rules and restrictions
and as a
result there was *huge* party time around here for awhile with bedtimes
between
midnight and 1 for our 3 year old twins.
-=-=-
Right---just take it one night at a time and don't rush it. Don't push
the "bedtime" or "sleep". Just pave the way for a restful couple of
hours. Sleep will come.
-=-=-=-=-
And then they settled out. We have an evening routine now that works
for us,
and the girls let us know when they're tired, which is usually around
10. What
I love is that they don't have to push through and pretend they're
*not* tired
just to stay up later than they would be 'allowed' to if we had rules.
-=-=-=-=-
Right. If they know they can go to sleep when they are tired, they
*will*. The body needs sleep and will grab it when it's time---UNLESS
it is forced to ignore its own signals.
-=-=-=-==-
Also, when I honour what they're telling me, allowing them to go to
sleep when
their little bodies are tired and not some preordained time so I can
get 'my
time', the 'my time' just sort of magically happens. It's like the
time
available to me expands or something, weird, but real.
-=-=-=-
Magic---yep! <G>
-=-=-=-=-
I hope this helps a little, and I really encourage you to peruse the
archives!
-=-=-=-
I second that. You can look for Jodi's first posts or even do a search
for bedtimes. There's a LOT there!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
Jodi Bezzola
~~You've come a L-O-N-G way, baby!~~
Thanks Kelly :). It's sort of like looking at your kids one day and thinking, my god, they're so big, when on earth did that happen?!?!?" The growth has been very gradual, fairly painful at times, and certainly not just uphill <g>. I went back and read some of my earlier posts too, and thought 'wow, you've come a long way Jodi, when the heck did that happen?!?!?"
I'm SO grateful for this list! I've read lots and lots of books and lots of lots of website stuff, but it's this list that keeps me in touch with the day-to-day, moment-by-moment of what unschooling *really* looks like.
Inspite of it seeming impossible from where we are financially and otherwise right now, my new dream is for our family to be at the conference in September. There, I dared to say it out loud.
Jodi
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Kelly :). It's sort of like looking at your kids one day and thinking, my god, they're so big, when on earth did that happen?!?!?" The growth has been very gradual, fairly painful at times, and certainly not just uphill <g>. I went back and read some of my earlier posts too, and thought 'wow, you've come a long way Jodi, when the heck did that happen?!?!?"
I'm SO grateful for this list! I've read lots and lots of books and lots of lots of website stuff, but it's this list that keeps me in touch with the day-to-day, moment-by-moment of what unschooling *really* looks like.
Inspite of it seeming impossible from where we are financially and otherwise right now, my new dream is for our family to be at the conference in September. There, I dared to say it out loud.
Jodi
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie and Parker
I loved this post. I've been thinking about it for the last few weeks
so I thought I'd share the little *me* moments I realized I take and
the *us* moments that happen all the time (since I have a *me* moment
right now in which to do so).
I work full time and my husband is a fabulous, baby-wearing SAHD. We
have 2 sons, 4 years and 18 mos. I think I was alone in my house once
in 2007 and DH and I went to a movie once after DS1 was born. Between
both boys I have been pumping and breastfeeding for 4 years. We play
all night until the boys are asleep around 10 or 11 and then DS2 is
an avid night nurser. So, we are tired and a little crazy, but we
wouldn't have it any other way.
In bed at night, each time DS2 stops nursing and falls asleep, I roll
over on my right side and I have about 5 minutes of *me* time before
I pass out. Sometimes on Saturday morning DS2 gets up and goes out to
watch cartoons with DH and DS1. I have maybe 15-30 minutes when I am
alone in my bed, no one is touching my breasts and I am not
responsible for anyone or anything. It's lovely Sometimes I try to
disappear into the bathroom with a book or get a shower started. I
might get 5 minutes or so before the boys find me and pile in.
So, I am thinking about all this during the last couple of weeks
after reading this post, and as much as I love those indulgent
moments, I realized that they aren't really what makes me a better
mom. It's the *us* moments when DS1 crawls in bed with us and we are
all snuggled up together, and when I am in the shower with the boys
and they are hogging all the water, when I wrap them in their towels
and we look at ourselves all happy in the mirror, the huge smiles
when they pick me up from work- they are so happy to see me, etc,
etc, etc . Those moments are absolutely refreshing and make me feel
like I could go on like this for 100 years!
Thanks for making me think about this!
Leslie
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
so I thought I'd share the little *me* moments I realized I take and
the *us* moments that happen all the time (since I have a *me* moment
right now in which to do so).
I work full time and my husband is a fabulous, baby-wearing SAHD. We
have 2 sons, 4 years and 18 mos. I think I was alone in my house once
in 2007 and DH and I went to a movie once after DS1 was born. Between
both boys I have been pumping and breastfeeding for 4 years. We play
all night until the boys are asleep around 10 or 11 and then DS2 is
an avid night nurser. So, we are tired and a little crazy, but we
wouldn't have it any other way.
In bed at night, each time DS2 stops nursing and falls asleep, I roll
over on my right side and I have about 5 minutes of *me* time before
I pass out. Sometimes on Saturday morning DS2 gets up and goes out to
watch cartoons with DH and DS1. I have maybe 15-30 minutes when I am
alone in my bed, no one is touching my breasts and I am not
responsible for anyone or anything. It's lovely Sometimes I try to
disappear into the bathroom with a book or get a shower started. I
might get 5 minutes or so before the boys find me and pile in.
So, I am thinking about all this during the last couple of weeks
after reading this post, and as much as I love those indulgent
moments, I realized that they aren't really what makes me a better
mom. It's the *us* moments when DS1 crawls in bed with us and we are
all snuggled up together, and when I am in the shower with the boys
and they are hogging all the water, when I wrap them in their towels
and we look at ourselves all happy in the mirror, the huge smiles
when they pick me up from work- they are so happy to see me, etc,
etc, etc . Those moments are absolutely refreshing and make me feel
like I could go on like this for 100 years!
Thanks for making me think about this!
Leslie
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>unfortunately
>
> On Apr 25, 2008, at 7:29 AM, alohabun wrote:
>
> > That is exactly how I feel about "me time" too. It is
> > so ingrained in our society that we must have time to ourselves inwhile
> > order to be a better mother/parent.
>
> We do need times for our brains to sort of settle down once in a
> - we need time to process all the constant input, to integrate it.like
> But, that can happen in random free moments or while doing things
> washing dishes or taking a shower. It can happen when a child iswith
> us. We don't have to be totally ALONE, much less alone for verylong.
>days -
> I wrote about this just a few weeks ago on this list -- here's a
> shortened version:
>
> >
> >
> > How do you realistically take time out for peace and quiet?
>
> You don't get much when your kids are young. I get a LOT these
> mine are 17, 20, and 23.shut
>
> Learn to take 1-minute mental vacations. Go into the bathroom,
> the door and your eyes, visualize yourself somewhere peaceful andand
> quiet. Don't expect more than 60 seconds or you'll be frustrated
> disappointed instead of calmed. These mini-vacations can make ajob
> gigantic difference.
>
> Recognize your worth as a mother and partner so that doing a good
> in those roles gives you self-satisfaction. Pay more attention and
> make mental notes when you "achieve" things like connecting with a
> child, supporting a child, etc. Make eye contact and smile a lot.
> THOSE are the moments that really refresh and reinvigorate you.
>
> -pam