unschooling and taking classes
barefootmamax4
I have a friend who does not purchase curriculum ,but they do take a
lot of hands on classes for homeschoolers. The kids seem to enjoy the
classes, but it does not seem that the classes are specifically
following the kid's interests. Are they just replacing curriculum with
classes?
-Kelly
lot of hands on classes for homeschoolers. The kids seem to enjoy the
classes, but it does not seem that the classes are specifically
following the kid's interests. Are they just replacing curriculum with
classes?
-Kelly
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
I have a friend who does not purchase curriculum ,but they do take a
lot of hands on classes for homeschoolers. The kids seem to enjoy the
classes, but it does not seem that the classes are specifically
following the kid's interests. Are they just replacing curriculum with
classes?
-=-=-=-
I don't know. It depends. Are the children *wanting* the classes, or
are they simply the only options the parents are giving the children?
Locally, we have HUGE homeschool co-ops that basically look like
school. Except that the parents are teaching the classes and not
"certified" teachers.
Is she making them do the work? Do the kids want to be there?
(*Enjoying" the classes isn't the same as *choosing* to be there
because it's cool and fun and interesting.---*I* enjoyed LOTS of my
school classes, but that doesn't mean I was there by choice---OR
unschooling.) Can they stop if they're not enjoying it any more?
Is she calling the kids unschoolers?
Classes can certainly replace curriculum----I mean, classes ARE the
curriculum in school (Or are the curricula the classes? <g>).
Both of my boys have taken a class or two---and I know several
unschoolers who LOVE co-op classes and other "organized" educational
stuff. But if the classes *become* the curriculum and the children
don't have a choice, I wouldn't consider it unschooling. To me it would
be...maybe...eclectic homeschooling through the co-op? <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
I have a friend who does not purchase curriculum ,but they do take a
lot of hands on classes for homeschoolers. The kids seem to enjoy the
classes, but it does not seem that the classes are specifically
following the kid's interests. Are they just replacing curriculum with
classes?
-=-=-=-
I don't know. It depends. Are the children *wanting* the classes, or
are they simply the only options the parents are giving the children?
Locally, we have HUGE homeschool co-ops that basically look like
school. Except that the parents are teaching the classes and not
"certified" teachers.
Is she making them do the work? Do the kids want to be there?
(*Enjoying" the classes isn't the same as *choosing* to be there
because it's cool and fun and interesting.---*I* enjoyed LOTS of my
school classes, but that doesn't mean I was there by choice---OR
unschooling.) Can they stop if they're not enjoying it any more?
Is she calling the kids unschoolers?
Classes can certainly replace curriculum----I mean, classes ARE the
curriculum in school (Or are the curricula the classes? <g>).
Both of my boys have taken a class or two---and I know several
unschoolers who LOVE co-op classes and other "organized" educational
stuff. But if the classes *become* the curriculum and the children
don't have a choice, I wouldn't consider it unschooling. To me it would
be...maybe...eclectic homeschooling through the co-op? <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
hbmccarty
My family participates in a large home school learning center(70
families meeting 5 days a week). Many members use it as school, though
we and several other families unschool and treat it like anything else
we would offer our children- totally up to them day by day. We tend to
sign up for sports, games, and art programs as that is what my kids are
interested in though they have also enjoyed some writing and science
classes at their own choice. It is a challenge to co-exist with the
school-at -home families but the kids love to be with the other kids and
as long as I don't expect too much out of relationships with the other
parents it is okay. My kids love it so much and feel very sad when there
is a break between sessions (which is one school-like things about it
that doesn't work so well for us.)
I have organized some meetings of a unschooling group at the center -
the interest is growing. I think having us be there and be confident in
our choices really helps other families see unschooling as a viable
option. I think there is a lot of pressure and contagious fear about
meeting state requirements that spreads among parents- especially those
with young children. Many families have joined specifically so that they
can use the classes at the learning center as a substitute for following
curriculum at home. Such a fearful way to live! I do see that our
excitement in following our own interests in learning and living can be
contagious also.
Heather M.
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
families meeting 5 days a week). Many members use it as school, though
we and several other families unschool and treat it like anything else
we would offer our children- totally up to them day by day. We tend to
sign up for sports, games, and art programs as that is what my kids are
interested in though they have also enjoyed some writing and science
classes at their own choice. It is a challenge to co-exist with the
school-at -home families but the kids love to be with the other kids and
as long as I don't expect too much out of relationships with the other
parents it is okay. My kids love it so much and feel very sad when there
is a break between sessions (which is one school-like things about it
that doesn't work so well for us.)
I have organized some meetings of a unschooling group at the center -
the interest is growing. I think having us be there and be confident in
our choices really helps other families see unschooling as a viable
option. I think there is a lot of pressure and contagious fear about
meeting state requirements that spreads among parents- especially those
with young children. Many families have joined specifically so that they
can use the classes at the learning center as a substitute for following
curriculum at home. Such a fearful way to live! I do see that our
excitement in following our own interests in learning and living can be
contagious also.
Heather M.
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...
> <mailto:barefootmamax4%40yahoo.com>>
>
> I have a friend who does not purchase curriculum ,but they do take a
> lot of hands on classes for homeschoolers. The kids seem to enjoy the
> classes, but it does not seem that the classes are specifically
> following the kid's interests. Are they just replacing curriculum with
> classes?
>
> -
>
barefootmamax4
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
Her kids say they want to go,but I'm not sure if it is because they
find the classes themselves interesting or if it is because most of
their friends are also doing the classes.
they wouldn't have to do it.I think that is exactly what I'm trying
to get at though, the difference between choosing to be there because
it's fun and interesting and enjoying being there(but not necesarily
the class the child would have chose on thier own.) It's not like the
kid had an interest in woodcrafting or art so the parents set up an
art class to help the kid follow thier own intersest. It's more like
the Seaport is offering classes once on month on these various
subjects (immigration, navigation, force and motion) and all the
local homeschoolers take them,so my friend does too. They do they
work of the class because that is what everybody is doing, but I
don't see her daughter just coming out with "Hey, I want to study
immigration, is there a class for that?" I suppose it could be being
presented as the mom showing the kids all the classes available and
asking if they want to take them. In that case would the only
difference would be parental suggestion and not really following a
particular interest that was there first? Would this just be exposing
them to more of the world?
unschooling as they don't buy a curriculum or do a school at home. I
am wondering about driving from class to class though. They are going
somewhere every day. I am trying to pin down the exact difference
between using a class in a unschooling manner or using the class as
curriculum (expensive tutoring) aren't you just paying someone else
to teach you kids? What is the difference between that and private
school?
classes as curriculum. There is a nature science class,book club,
chess club,Seaport(history), sports and Spanish currently being
offered. It is true that the classes are hands on and we have done a
few of them, but we don't do all of the session or use it as a
curriculum. For example the Seaport had a class at the planetarium.At
the time we had just gotten a telescope and were learning to use it
so the kids really wanted to do this one. Shortly after they lost
interest .
if it is an ecclectic homeschooling with co-op? What if they choose
to go but show no other interest in the subject outside of the class?
What if they would not be going if all of their friends were not
going too?
>or
> I don't know. It depends. Are the children *wanting* the classes,
> are they simply the only options the parents are giving thechildren?
Her kids say they want to go,but I'm not sure if it is because they
find the classes themselves interesting or if it is because most of
their friends are also doing the classes.
> Is she making them do the work? Do the kids want to be there?I believe that if the kids said they really didn't want to do a class
> (*Enjoying" the classes isn't the same as *choosing* to be there
> because it's cool and fun and interesting.---*I* enjoyed LOTS of my
> school classes, but that doesn't mean I was there by choice---OR
> unschooling.) Can they stop if they're not enjoying it any more?
they wouldn't have to do it.I think that is exactly what I'm trying
to get at though, the difference between choosing to be there because
it's fun and interesting and enjoying being there(but not necesarily
the class the child would have chose on thier own.) It's not like the
kid had an interest in woodcrafting or art so the parents set up an
art class to help the kid follow thier own intersest. It's more like
the Seaport is offering classes once on month on these various
subjects (immigration, navigation, force and motion) and all the
local homeschoolers take them,so my friend does too. They do they
work of the class because that is what everybody is doing, but I
don't see her daughter just coming out with "Hey, I want to study
immigration, is there a class for that?" I suppose it could be being
presented as the mom showing the kids all the classes available and
asking if they want to take them. In that case would the only
difference would be parental suggestion and not really following a
particular interest that was there first? Would this just be exposing
them to more of the world?
> Is she calling the kids unschoolers?Yes, that is why I'm trying to figure this out. She defines the term
unschooling as they don't buy a curriculum or do a school at home. I
am wondering about driving from class to class though. They are going
somewhere every day. I am trying to pin down the exact difference
between using a class in a unschooling manner or using the class as
curriculum (expensive tutoring) aren't you just paying someone else
to teach you kids? What is the difference between that and private
school?
>I know a lot of people in the local homeschooling group use the
> Classes can certainly replace curriculum----I mean, classes ARE the
> curriculum in school (Or are the curricula the classes? <g>).
classes as curriculum. There is a nature science class,book club,
chess club,Seaport(history), sports and Spanish currently being
offered. It is true that the classes are hands on and we have done a
few of them, but we don't do all of the session or use it as a
curriculum. For example the Seaport had a class at the planetarium.At
the time we had just gotten a telescope and were learning to use it
so the kids really wanted to do this one. Shortly after they lost
interest .
>educational
> Both of my boys have taken a class or two---and I know several
> unschoolers who LOVE co-op classes and other "organized"
> stuff. But if the classes *become* the curriculum and the childrenwould
> don't have a choice, I wouldn't consider it unschooling. To me it
> be...maybe...eclectic homeschooling through the co-op? <g>So how can you tell if it is an unschooler who loves the classes or
if it is an ecclectic homeschooling with co-op? What if they choose
to go but show no other interest in the subject outside of the class?
What if they would not be going if all of their friends were not
going too?
barefootmamax4
I also know another unschooling family (in the same co-op group) that
is working on trying to get use of an unused school building for
holding classes and use if the gym. When I mentioned that I thought it
was incredibly ironic that unschoolers would want to use a school
building she replied that it is just a building and the kids don't have
the same feelings about the building that we do. She said it was what
we choose to take from it. I can see this point of view, but I'm not
sure I can deal with the classes being in a school building and still
not being school, even if it is run by parents. She used the model of a
Sudbury school,free school. I am thinking that despite it's freedom for
children to choose what classes to to take ,it is still a school,
separating learning from real life through classes. There is still a
separation between teachers (even if they are parents) and students. Am
I just way off here? What is a Sudbury school in relation to
unschooling?
-Kelly
is working on trying to get use of an unused school building for
holding classes and use if the gym. When I mentioned that I thought it
was incredibly ironic that unschoolers would want to use a school
building she replied that it is just a building and the kids don't have
the same feelings about the building that we do. She said it was what
we choose to take from it. I can see this point of view, but I'm not
sure I can deal with the classes being in a school building and still
not being school, even if it is run by parents. She used the model of a
Sudbury school,free school. I am thinking that despite it's freedom for
children to choose what classes to to take ,it is still a school,
separating learning from real life through classes. There is still a
separation between teachers (even if they are parents) and students. Am
I just way off here? What is a Sudbury school in relation to
unschooling?
-Kelly
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
I suppose it could be being
presented as the mom showing the kids all the classes available and
asking if they want to take them. In that case would the only
difference would be parental suggestion and not really following a
particular interest that was there first? Would this just be exposing
them to more of the world?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Hard to say; but if Mom isn't very creative or energetic, that may be
the children's best way to be exposed to the world.
That's true of school though sometimes: if mom can't make unschooling
fun and interesting, school might be a better choice.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yes, that is why I'm trying to figure this out. She defines the term
unschooling as they don't buy a curriculum or do a school at home.
-=-=-=-
That's how some people define unschooling. To me, it's much more than
that.
That's one of the problems in actually *defining* unschooling: it means
different things to different people. *I* certainly have a stronger and
deeper definition. <g>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I am wondering about driving from class to class though. They are
going
somewhere every day.
-=-=-=-=-
There have been times we were going somewhere every day. There are
other periods in which we stay at home a LOT (like now). Some folks
LIKE to be out and about a lot---it depends on the family.
-=-=-=-=-
I am trying to pin down the exact difference
between using a class in a unschooling manner or using the class as
curriculum (expensive tutoring) aren't you just paying someone else
to teach you kids? What is the difference between that and private
school?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
If that's the main way the parents are handling the learning, it
doesn't sound very unschooly. It really depends on the kids though.
I don't like the idea of forcing the kids to do anything---and even if
the parents aren't forcing the kids to these classes, my guess is that
the children feel coercion from the "teachers" in some way.
-=-=-=-=-=-
So how can you tell if it is an unschooler who loves the classes or
if it is an ecclectic homeschooling with co-op?
-=-=-=-
Well, it doesn't really matter. <g> Do we really need to tell? <G>
-=-=-=-=-=-
What if they choose
to go but show no other interest in the subject outside of the class?
What if they would not be going if all of their friends were not
going too?
-=-=-=-=-
Then *I* think the parents aren't working hard enough. <bwg> All that
can be accomplished withOUT classes and co-ops. Certainly getting the
kids together often can be accomplished without classes.
But you know, sometimes it IS what the kids want. Sometimes mom's not
feeling up to the job, and it may be the children's best option.
Sometimes children just like group dynamics.
I don't think it's good for unschoolers to place more value on
organized classes and co-ops than on tv and games and playing in mud.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
I suppose it could be being
presented as the mom showing the kids all the classes available and
asking if they want to take them. In that case would the only
difference would be parental suggestion and not really following a
particular interest that was there first? Would this just be exposing
them to more of the world?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Hard to say; but if Mom isn't very creative or energetic, that may be
the children's best way to be exposed to the world.
That's true of school though sometimes: if mom can't make unschooling
fun and interesting, school might be a better choice.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Yes, that is why I'm trying to figure this out. She defines the term
unschooling as they don't buy a curriculum or do a school at home.
-=-=-=-
That's how some people define unschooling. To me, it's much more than
that.
That's one of the problems in actually *defining* unschooling: it means
different things to different people. *I* certainly have a stronger and
deeper definition. <g>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I am wondering about driving from class to class though. They are
going
somewhere every day.
-=-=-=-=-
There have been times we were going somewhere every day. There are
other periods in which we stay at home a LOT (like now). Some folks
LIKE to be out and about a lot---it depends on the family.
-=-=-=-=-
I am trying to pin down the exact difference
between using a class in a unschooling manner or using the class as
curriculum (expensive tutoring) aren't you just paying someone else
to teach you kids? What is the difference between that and private
school?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
If that's the main way the parents are handling the learning, it
doesn't sound very unschooly. It really depends on the kids though.
I don't like the idea of forcing the kids to do anything---and even if
the parents aren't forcing the kids to these classes, my guess is that
the children feel coercion from the "teachers" in some way.
-=-=-=-=-=-
So how can you tell if it is an unschooler who loves the classes or
if it is an ecclectic homeschooling with co-op?
-=-=-=-
Well, it doesn't really matter. <g> Do we really need to tell? <G>
-=-=-=-=-=-
What if they choose
to go but show no other interest in the subject outside of the class?
What if they would not be going if all of their friends were not
going too?
-=-=-=-=-
Then *I* think the parents aren't working hard enough. <bwg> All that
can be accomplished withOUT classes and co-ops. Certainly getting the
kids together often can be accomplished without classes.
But you know, sometimes it IS what the kids want. Sometimes mom's not
feeling up to the job, and it may be the children's best option.
Sometimes children just like group dynamics.
I don't think it's good for unschoolers to place more value on
organized classes and co-ops than on tv and games and playing in mud.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
I also know another unschooling family (in the same co-op group) that
is working on trying to get use of an unused school building for
holding classes and use if the gym. When I mentioned that I thought it
was incredibly ironic that unschoolers would want to use a school
building she replied that it is just a building and the kids don't have
the same feelings about the building that we do.
-=-=-=-
Both are probably very true. It IS just a building, and
alwaysunschooled kids don't have the issues we schooled adults have
with the idea of school classrooms.
-=-=-=-=-=-=
She said it was what
we choose to take from it. I can see this point of view, but I'm not
sure I can deal with the classes being in a school building and still
not being school, even if it is run by parents. She used the model of a
Sudbury school,free school.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Well, if it's modeled after Sudbury, it's NOT run by the parents! <g>
-=-=-=-=-
I am thinking that despite it's freedom for
children to choose what classes to to take ,it is still a school,
separating learning from real life through classes. There is still a
separation between teachers (even if they are parents) and students. Am
I just way off here? What is a Sudbury school in relation to
unschooling?
-=-=-=-=-
It's NOT unschooling, but it seems better than school.
It's a free---or *democratic*---school. The teachers and children have
equal voting rights---it's a democratic process---in making school
decisions. The children can even vote a teacher OUT if they want.
If the parents are making all the decisions FOR the children and FOR
the school, it's not a Sudbury-type school.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
I also know another unschooling family (in the same co-op group) that
is working on trying to get use of an unused school building for
holding classes and use if the gym. When I mentioned that I thought it
was incredibly ironic that unschoolers would want to use a school
building she replied that it is just a building and the kids don't have
the same feelings about the building that we do.
-=-=-=-
Both are probably very true. It IS just a building, and
alwaysunschooled kids don't have the issues we schooled adults have
with the idea of school classrooms.
-=-=-=-=-=-=
She said it was what
we choose to take from it. I can see this point of view, but I'm not
sure I can deal with the classes being in a school building and still
not being school, even if it is run by parents. She used the model of a
Sudbury school,free school.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Well, if it's modeled after Sudbury, it's NOT run by the parents! <g>
-=-=-=-=-
I am thinking that despite it's freedom for
children to choose what classes to to take ,it is still a school,
separating learning from real life through classes. There is still a
separation between teachers (even if they are parents) and students. Am
I just way off here? What is a Sudbury school in relation to
unschooling?
-=-=-=-=-
It's NOT unschooling, but it seems better than school.
It's a free---or *democratic*---school. The teachers and children have
equal voting rights---it's a democratic process---in making school
decisions. The children can even vote a teacher OUT if they want.
If the parents are making all the decisions FOR the children and FOR
the school, it's not a Sudbury-type school.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
trovesoftrilliums
As I homeschool I am slowly becoming more relaxed and tending to
appreciate unschooling ideas more. Not fully there at the moment
though. Seems to be a process for me. :)
Anyways, I was discussing unschooling ideas with my husband and he
asked if the *freeschools* were unschooling schools. Would anyone
here describe them as such?
appreciate unschooling ideas more. Not fully there at the moment
though. Seems to be a process for me. :)
Anyways, I was discussing unschooling ideas with my husband and he
asked if the *freeschools* were unschooling schools. Would anyone
here describe them as such?
barefootmamax4
> That's how some people define unschooling. To me, it's much morethan
> that.means
>
> That's one of the problems in actually *defining* unschooling: it
> different things to different people. *I* certainly have a strongerand
> deeper definition. <g>Can you tell me your definition of unschooling?
> What if they chooseclass?
> to go but show no other interest in the subject outside of the
> What if they would not be going if all of their friends were notthat
> going too?
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> Then *I* think the parents aren't working hard enough. <bwg> All
> can be accomplished withOUT classes and co-ops. Certainly gettingthe
> kids together often can be accomplished without classes.Besides getting together for playdates,what other things could the
parents be doing to work harder? What about when the kids feel left
out because everyone else went to the co-op class and they did not?
>not
> But you know, sometimes it IS what the kids want. Sometimes mom's
> feeling up to the job, and it may be the children's best option.How can you tell if it is what the kids really want if they don't
> Sometimes children just like group dynamics.
show any interest in the subject outside of the class? Is just giving
them the option to go or not good enough?
-Kelly
Pamela Sorooshian
Unschooling is a set of principles, not the particular actions that
result from living by those principles.
In some families, living by the principles of unschooling may include
the kids choosing to take classes. In other families, kids taking
classes would necessarily involve some level of coercion or pressure
by the parents.
What is unschooling?
It is bringing the world to the child and the child to the world,
supporting the child's interests, and recognizing that learning
happens all the time, except when it is forced.
-pam
result from living by those principles.
In some families, living by the principles of unschooling may include
the kids choosing to take classes. In other families, kids taking
classes would necessarily involve some level of coercion or pressure
by the parents.
What is unschooling?
It is bringing the world to the child and the child to the world,
supporting the child's interests, and recognizing that learning
happens all the time, except when it is forced.
-pam
Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 12, 2008, at 1:33 PM, barefootmamax4 wrote:
When my now 23 year old daughter took an English course in college,
one of her very first college courses, she was THRILLED. She came out
of the class meeting just grinning from ear to ear and saying, "I just
can't believe it this is so COOL that someone is paid to read my
writing and edit it and critique it."
She was ecstatic. It didn't bother her at ALL that this person was
called a teacher and that she met with her in a school building. It
didn't bother her much that she was getting graded. She didn't pay
much attention to the grading aspect throughout all of college, in
fact. She said to me that if the other students would stop thinking
about grades and think about the course content, their grades would
improve.
So - my point is that she definitely didn't have the baggage about
schools and teachers (or even about grades) that we might have.
grades? I mean - just being IN a school building doesn't make it school.
kids have to go a certain amount - it is required.
teacher - then they haven't understood unschooling. But, once they do
understand that learning happens all the time, anywhere, in an
infinite number of ways, most often incidentally, then some classes
might be very enjoyable, especially the social aspect of being in a
group all focusing on learning about the same thing together.
and classes for a while, because it is too easy to revert to thinking
THAT is real learning, as opposed to the more natural learning of real
life. But for more "advanced" (for want of a better word) unschoolers,
classes can be a part of the overall unschooling life. My KIDS don't
think of karate or dance classes or voice or guitar lessons
differently than classes or lessons for writing or math. The classes
are out there and represent one possible way to learn something.
I think it can be a little hard for us always-schooled adults to think
like our own unschooled kids. We have baggage! <G>
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> it is just a building and the kids don't haveTrue.
> the same feelings about the building that we do.
When my now 23 year old daughter took an English course in college,
one of her very first college courses, she was THRILLED. She came out
of the class meeting just grinning from ear to ear and saying, "I just
can't believe it this is so COOL that someone is paid to read my
writing and edit it and critique it."
She was ecstatic. It didn't bother her at ALL that this person was
called a teacher and that she met with her in a school building. It
didn't bother her much that she was getting graded. She didn't pay
much attention to the grading aspect throughout all of college, in
fact. She said to me that if the other students would stop thinking
about grades and think about the course content, their grades would
improve.
So - my point is that she definitely didn't have the baggage about
schools and teachers (or even about grades) that we might have.
> She said it was whatIs it entirely voluntary? Is it boring? Are there tests? Are there
> we choose to take from it. I can see this point of view, but I'm not
> sure I can deal with the classes being in a school building and still
> not being school, even if it is run by parents.
grades? I mean - just being IN a school building doesn't make it school.
> She used the model of aI wouldn't use that model because even in Sudbury-style schools, the
> Sudbury school,free school.
kids have to go a certain amount - it is required.
> I am thinking that despite it's freedom forIf someone thinks the only way to learn is through classes and from a
> children to choose what classes to to take ,it is still a school,
> separating learning from real life through classes.
teacher - then they haven't understood unschooling. But, once they do
understand that learning happens all the time, anywhere, in an
infinite number of ways, most often incidentally, then some classes
might be very enjoyable, especially the social aspect of being in a
group all focusing on learning about the same thing together.
> There is still a separation between teachers (even if they areI think it is better for people new to unschooling to avoid teachers
> parents) and students. Am
> I just way off here?
and classes for a while, because it is too easy to revert to thinking
THAT is real learning, as opposed to the more natural learning of real
life. But for more "advanced" (for want of a better word) unschoolers,
classes can be a part of the overall unschooling life. My KIDS don't
think of karate or dance classes or voice or guitar lessons
differently than classes or lessons for writing or math. The classes
are out there and represent one possible way to learn something.
I think it can be a little hard for us always-schooled adults to think
like our own unschooled kids. We have baggage! <G>
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Adrean Clark
> Hard to say; but if Mom isn't very creative or energetic, that may beHow do we know we're "failing" at unschooling?
> the children's best way to be exposed to the world.
>
> That's true of school though sometimes: if mom can't make unschooling
> fun and interesting, school might be a better choice.
Adrean
Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 12, 2008, at 3:16 PM, trovesoftrilliums wrote:
unschooling, with one big thing in common. They do have a huge focus
on supporting the interests of the kids as opposed to deciding for
them what they should learn. But, a huge part of the focus is also on
the democratic nature of the school - it isn't a parent/child
relationship that they create there. The students and teachers are all
equal - everyone gets one vote - on everything including the hiring of
teachers and the rules of the school. There ARE lots of rules and
there are punishments, too, again decided on by the kids and adults
together.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Free schools or democratic schools are pretty different from
> Anyways, I was discussing unschooling ideas with my husband and he
> asked if the *freeschools* were unschooling schools. Would anyone
> here describe them as such?
unschooling, with one big thing in common. They do have a huge focus
on supporting the interests of the kids as opposed to deciding for
them what they should learn. But, a huge part of the focus is also on
the democratic nature of the school - it isn't a parent/child
relationship that they create there. The students and teachers are all
equal - everyone gets one vote - on everything including the hiring of
teachers and the rules of the school. There ARE lots of rules and
there are punishments, too, again decided on by the kids and adults
together.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Apr 13, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Adrean Clark wrote:
Are they happy? Are they interested in things - have a good healthy
curiosity? Do they have things they love? Do they seem to be maturing
and developing into "themselves?" Developing a strong sense of self?
Developing good relationships with others? And so on.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > That's true of school though sometimes: if mom can't makeLook at the kids.
> unschooling
> > fun and interesting, school might be a better choice.
>
> How do we know we're "failing" at unschooling?
Are they happy? Are they interested in things - have a good healthy
curiosity? Do they have things they love? Do they seem to be maturing
and developing into "themselves?" Developing a strong sense of self?
Developing good relationships with others? And so on.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hbmccarty
The way we participate in our learning center is this:
We talk about what programs(this is what our group calls them- not my
name) our family would like to participate in or offer- We will either
plan a program ourselves or with others, or find someone with
willingness and skill to lead a program that my children request. The
program can be just about anything from very structured to very open
ended. We also just wait and see what other families come up with and
try things out to see if we have interest. Each family offers a program
or contributes in some other way each session(3 a year)- this is the end
of the third year. It is in no way an easy way out- I have personally
devoted a huge amount of time to organizing, scheduling, preparing for
activities, meetings, etc. My daughter loves to lead craft activities
with me so we do this often- she loves sharing skills with other kids.
My son mainly likes sports and hanging out.
Many of the things that we do at the learning center are things that
aren't aren't as much fun(in our opinion) with three: basketball,
soccer, cooperative games, group games, dancing, board games, card
games, general playing outdoors. My kids have also been introduced to
some stuff by people who are truly excited about what they are doing.
My kids do some things that they are interested in outside of the
learning center, other times they are just trying something that sounds
interesting- and sometimes it isn't, sometimes it is. They both really
love being out of the house and seeing other people- and this was
difficult for me to arrange enough of without the learning center,
though I tried and tried. Many families just weren't open to getting
together often. In fact, I think my older child is likely to have
attended public school if it weren't for the learning center. We could
certainly arrange other group things outside of this institution and do
but since most home schooled kids in the area attend and my kids want to
be with them often, we want to be there.
Certainly my children might find themselves being coerced by another
parent/leader. We read the descriptions carefully and avoid situations
that seem uncomfortable, and drop out of others that become
uncomfortable, which is rare.
Just my experience- don't know what your friend's is. Classes or
learning coops that aren't organized by parents of course don't take as
much effort- and their are many members of our own center that don't out
much into it and use it in a very different way. I run into a lot of
people who have a very different definition of unschooling than I do- I
can feel a bit annoyed by that- but I don't own the word, after all.
People say they unschool and force their children to work in a math book
or are just so negative and disappointed about their children that even
if they call it unschooling it isn't anything I recognize as such.
Once an unschooling kid chooses to go to school- are they no longer
unschooling? Once an unschooling kid chooses to take a lot of
school-like classes or buys some text books are they no longer
unschooling? Maybe the parent in either case is not able to provide an
unschooling life without these experiences that is satisfying- or maybe
this is what the child truly wants to experience of all that is out
there- you'd have to look pretty close to tell. I would think this would
mainly be important to determine about yourself and your own children.
Some people really really want to experience group learning or are
willing to put up with the group learning to experience what they love
about the greater experience of being at school or other type of class.
I have to face the fact that I am humanly unable to provide my children
with all experiences possible or even all that they desire- due to where
we live, our income level, other people's willingness and availability.
We can try and try harder, but there are limits though we work very hard
at letting go of any arbitrary and invented ones. I know that there are
things that could be better and I love this list in that it challenges
me to seek out experiences for my kids that fit them better. Some people
aren't looking for that.
Heather M.
barefootmamax4 wrote:
We talk about what programs(this is what our group calls them- not my
name) our family would like to participate in or offer- We will either
plan a program ourselves or with others, or find someone with
willingness and skill to lead a program that my children request. The
program can be just about anything from very structured to very open
ended. We also just wait and see what other families come up with and
try things out to see if we have interest. Each family offers a program
or contributes in some other way each session(3 a year)- this is the end
of the third year. It is in no way an easy way out- I have personally
devoted a huge amount of time to organizing, scheduling, preparing for
activities, meetings, etc. My daughter loves to lead craft activities
with me so we do this often- she loves sharing skills with other kids.
My son mainly likes sports and hanging out.
Many of the things that we do at the learning center are things that
aren't aren't as much fun(in our opinion) with three: basketball,
soccer, cooperative games, group games, dancing, board games, card
games, general playing outdoors. My kids have also been introduced to
some stuff by people who are truly excited about what they are doing.
My kids do some things that they are interested in outside of the
learning center, other times they are just trying something that sounds
interesting- and sometimes it isn't, sometimes it is. They both really
love being out of the house and seeing other people- and this was
difficult for me to arrange enough of without the learning center,
though I tried and tried. Many families just weren't open to getting
together often. In fact, I think my older child is likely to have
attended public school if it weren't for the learning center. We could
certainly arrange other group things outside of this institution and do
but since most home schooled kids in the area attend and my kids want to
be with them often, we want to be there.
Certainly my children might find themselves being coerced by another
parent/leader. We read the descriptions carefully and avoid situations
that seem uncomfortable, and drop out of others that become
uncomfortable, which is rare.
Just my experience- don't know what your friend's is. Classes or
learning coops that aren't organized by parents of course don't take as
much effort- and their are many members of our own center that don't out
much into it and use it in a very different way. I run into a lot of
people who have a very different definition of unschooling than I do- I
can feel a bit annoyed by that- but I don't own the word, after all.
People say they unschool and force their children to work in a math book
or are just so negative and disappointed about their children that even
if they call it unschooling it isn't anything I recognize as such.
Once an unschooling kid chooses to go to school- are they no longer
unschooling? Once an unschooling kid chooses to take a lot of
school-like classes or buys some text books are they no longer
unschooling? Maybe the parent in either case is not able to provide an
unschooling life without these experiences that is satisfying- or maybe
this is what the child truly wants to experience of all that is out
there- you'd have to look pretty close to tell. I would think this would
mainly be important to determine about yourself and your own children.
Some people really really want to experience group learning or are
willing to put up with the group learning to experience what they love
about the greater experience of being at school or other type of class.
I have to face the fact that I am humanly unable to provide my children
with all experiences possible or even all that they desire- due to where
we live, our income level, other people's willingness and availability.
We can try and try harder, but there are limits though we work very hard
at letting go of any arbitrary and invented ones. I know that there are
things that could be better and I love this list in that it challenges
me to seek out experiences for my kids that fit them better. Some people
aren't looking for that.
Heather M.
barefootmamax4 wrote:
>
>
> How can you tell if it is what the kids really want if they don't
> show any interest in the subject outside of the class? Is just giving
> them the option to go or not good enough?
>
> -Kelly
>
> __._,_.__
>
>
>
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
In some families, living by the principles of unschooling may include
the kids choosing to take classes. In other families, kids taking
classes would necessarily involve some level of coercion or pressure
by the parents.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I wrote about this a while ago. Sandra has it on her website:
http://sandradodd.com/kellylovejoy/stages
It helps to understand the underlying *motive* behind taking classes.
There can be baggage to unload before feeling comfortable in classes,
but it's doable.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
In some families, living by the principles of unschooling may include
the kids choosing to take classes. In other families, kids taking
classes would necessarily involve some level of coercion or pressure
by the parents.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I wrote about this a while ago. Sandra has it on her website:
http://sandradodd.com/kellylovejoy/stages
It helps to understand the underlying *motive* behind taking classes.
There can be baggage to unload before feeling comfortable in classes,
but it's doable.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[email protected]
-----Original Message---
From: trovesoftrilliums <nancey.pope@...>
Anyways, I was discussing unschooling ideas with my husband and he
asked if the *freeschools* were unschooling schools. Would anyone
here describe them as such?
-=-=-=-
Nope, not me.
But they seem like a better place to be than traditional public/private
schools.
I think they could be "unschoolish"---except that
they're...ummmm...SCHOOLS. <g>
The kids still have to be there. And some of them can be pretty
rigorous (not necessarily academically), if that's what the kids and
teachers decide. It's democratic, so majority wins. If you're not one
of the majority, you lose! And that won't change unless they vote
again.
I saw a film of one. Maybe someone remembers which one. A very
unschoolish school (oxymoron). All the kids were pretty young. It was
in....Sweden? Maybe? I don't think they spoke English, but I could be
wrong. Seems that I remember translators/subtitles for the kids...most
of the adults spoke English, but not all.
But it looked like a cool place to spend a day, if you have to go to
school.
But mine don't. <g>
I think my kids are happier. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: trovesoftrilliums <nancey.pope@...>
Anyways, I was discussing unschooling ideas with my husband and he
asked if the *freeschools* were unschooling schools. Would anyone
here describe them as such?
-=-=-=-
Nope, not me.
But they seem like a better place to be than traditional public/private
schools.
I think they could be "unschoolish"---except that
they're...ummmm...SCHOOLS. <g>
The kids still have to be there. And some of them can be pretty
rigorous (not necessarily academically), if that's what the kids and
teachers decide. It's democratic, so majority wins. If you're not one
of the majority, you lose! And that won't change unless they vote
again.
I saw a film of one. Maybe someone remembers which one. A very
unschoolish school (oxymoron). All the kids were pretty young. It was
in....Sweden? Maybe? I don't think they spoke English, but I could be
wrong. Seems that I remember translators/subtitles for the kids...most
of the adults spoke English, but not all.
But it looked like a cool place to spend a day, if you have to go to
school.
But mine don't. <g>
I think my kids are happier. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...>
How do we know we're "failing" at unschooling?
-=-=-=-=-=-
Are you're children apathetic? Uninteresting? Uninterested?
Have no interests? No hobbies? No passions? Have they lost the love of
learning? Do they literally do *nothing* all day?
Are/have/do YOU?
Have you or they lost the love of learning? Do you try to force them to
be the children you *wish* you'd had? Are you more concerned about the
future than the present?
Is your home a miserable place to spend a day? A week? A year? Would
YOU want to be somewhere else? Anywhere else? Chances are, they would
too. <g>
What would *you* consider "failing"?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...>
How do we know we're "failing" at unschooling?
-=-=-=-=-=-
Are you're children apathetic? Uninteresting? Uninterested?
Have no interests? No hobbies? No passions? Have they lost the love of
learning? Do they literally do *nothing* all day?
Are/have/do YOU?
Have you or they lost the love of learning? Do you try to force them to
be the children you *wish* you'd had? Are you more concerned about the
future than the present?
Is your home a miserable place to spend a day? A week? A year? Would
YOU want to be somewhere else? Anywhere else? Chances are, they would
too. <g>
What would *you* consider "failing"?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
Adrean Clark
Sorry it took me so long to reply.
I thought long about what I would consider failing --- and my fear is
that I don't provide enough stimulation for the boys.
They are doing wonderfully though, our home is set up in a unique way
that they can play freely. The boys love legos and Blues Clues and
Power Rangers (I was getting a little worried that the craze wouldn't
end but the twins are on Super Why now whew - not that I wasn't
supportive, I just don't like the mock fighting and resulting tears
:/). They read, talk, (mostly) get along with each other. Sometimes
Azel even helps cook.
The boys are interesting people and we are still learning how to
communicate with each other in healthy ways. When I thought of
"failing" originally I thought of not going out to field trips often
enough and the like - schooly-think, right?
How do you deal with the feeling of "we should be doing more"? That
haunts me the most.
Adrean
I thought long about what I would consider failing --- and my fear is
that I don't provide enough stimulation for the boys.
They are doing wonderfully though, our home is set up in a unique way
that they can play freely. The boys love legos and Blues Clues and
Power Rangers (I was getting a little worried that the craze wouldn't
end but the twins are on Super Why now whew - not that I wasn't
supportive, I just don't like the mock fighting and resulting tears
:/). They read, talk, (mostly) get along with each other. Sometimes
Azel even helps cook.
The boys are interesting people and we are still learning how to
communicate with each other in healthy ways. When I thought of
"failing" originally I thought of not going out to field trips often
enough and the like - schooly-think, right?
How do you deal with the feeling of "we should be doing more"? That
haunts me the most.
Adrean
On 4/16/08, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...>
>
> How do we know we're "failing" at unschooling?
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> Are you're children apathetic? Uninteresting? Uninterested?
>
> Have no interests? No hobbies? No passions? Have they lost the love of
> learning? Do they literally do *nothing* all day?
>
> Are/have/do YOU?
>
> Have you or they lost the love of learning? Do you try to force them to
> be the children you *wish* you'd had? Are you more concerned about the
> future than the present?
>
> Is your home a miserable place to spend a day? A week? A year? Would
> YOU want to be somewhere else? Anywhere else? Chances are, they would
> too. <g>
>
>
>
> What would *you* consider "failing"?
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
>
--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...>
How do you deal with the feeling of "we should be doing more"? That
haunts me the most.
-=-=-=-=-=-
We do more. <g>
We go through "waves" here of doing a LOT and of just hanging out not
doing much of anything (so it seems).
When those days of doing "nothing" seem to out-number the active days,
I try to schedule something to get us out of the house and DOing
something. We go to Charleston for the day. Or Camden. Or Charlotte.
All are a bit of a drive, so we get that car-talking time in (which is
good for jump-starting other possibilities) and (when we get there)
some sight-seeing in and walking and inspiration---and lots of art,
architecture, and history.
There's a great place very nearby called the Congaree National
Swamp---a boardwalk built through a swamp---absolutely beautiful, with
all kinds of critters to hunt for. I have friends who have seen wild
boar there, but we haven't yet---got my eyes peeled though! <g>
Bringing a friend over for an extended stay is helpful. Bo's here now.
He'll stay for a week. That always livens things up a bit. Visiting
friends too: Duncan will be flying up to Boston to visit Shaun next
month (his first solo flight! <g>).
Recently, when it seemed that we are stuck in the house too much, I
asked Duncan whether there was anything he especially wanted to
DO---active-wise. He surprised me by saying tennis. So I got him (and
Cameron) a few lessons with the local pro, and he and Cameron like to
go down and hit a few balls around.
If *I* am feeling that we're not doing enough, chances are we aren't.
<g> There are times I feel we're in a rut---and *I* can get VERY
comfortable in a rut. <G> At those times, I need to push myself to get
out and do. But once that ball is rollling,....
At the same time, if we've been going and going and going, it can be
really nice to just hunker down and enjoy NOT doing for a while.
Sooo, to *me*, if you feel that you need to be doing more, the solution
is probably to do more. And maybe not more of the same thing, but
something *different*.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Adrean Clark <adreanaline@...>
How do you deal with the feeling of "we should be doing more"? That
haunts me the most.
-=-=-=-=-=-
We do more. <g>
We go through "waves" here of doing a LOT and of just hanging out not
doing much of anything (so it seems).
When those days of doing "nothing" seem to out-number the active days,
I try to schedule something to get us out of the house and DOing
something. We go to Charleston for the day. Or Camden. Or Charlotte.
All are a bit of a drive, so we get that car-talking time in (which is
good for jump-starting other possibilities) and (when we get there)
some sight-seeing in and walking and inspiration---and lots of art,
architecture, and history.
There's a great place very nearby called the Congaree National
Swamp---a boardwalk built through a swamp---absolutely beautiful, with
all kinds of critters to hunt for. I have friends who have seen wild
boar there, but we haven't yet---got my eyes peeled though! <g>
Bringing a friend over for an extended stay is helpful. Bo's here now.
He'll stay for a week. That always livens things up a bit. Visiting
friends too: Duncan will be flying up to Boston to visit Shaun next
month (his first solo flight! <g>).
Recently, when it seemed that we are stuck in the house too much, I
asked Duncan whether there was anything he especially wanted to
DO---active-wise. He surprised me by saying tennis. So I got him (and
Cameron) a few lessons with the local pro, and he and Cameron like to
go down and hit a few balls around.
If *I* am feeling that we're not doing enough, chances are we aren't.
<g> There are times I feel we're in a rut---and *I* can get VERY
comfortable in a rut. <G> At those times, I need to push myself to get
out and do. But once that ball is rollling,....
At the same time, if we've been going and going and going, it can be
really nice to just hunker down and enjoy NOT doing for a while.
Sooo, to *me*, if you feel that you need to be doing more, the solution
is probably to do more. And maybe not more of the same thing, but
something *different*.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org